Mark, thanks you so much for taking out from your weekend and joining us to discuss Exposed.

Mark thanks so much for being here today. The book is very enlightening — and not a little bit scary.

Question. Am I better off buying European cosmetics? (I’m asking because I know other superficial people want to know and are afraid to ask.)

Mark is just now joining us on the comment thread…

…well, that would be a good start…You can be sure that European cosmetics have gone through a screening process. What they’ve done is banned carcinogens, mutagens and reproductive toxins from cosmetics…..US has no such laws….

If we are as underpaid, stressed-out, poisoned, and overworked as corporations seem to want us to be, then how are we going to buy anything they sell?

Oh, I forgot. Sorry. Government contracts.

…..yes, well this assumes of course that you’re a govt contractor and have the money to afford all this good stuff…Question in my book is: How did US corporations respond when someplace ohter than US–IE THE EU–began writing the rules governing what’s inside all these products? Their toxic content…My findings are not reassuring as to either business or government’s concern for american’s health…

Mark, can you share what you’ve learned about the mind-set of US corporationss on this issue – with the push towards globalization, how did they let themselves get so far behind?

Thank you, Mark and Kirk, for coming by the Lake today.

I’ve not read your book yet, sir, but I would like to know: what does the path back to sanity look like? Is it one each individual must find, or can our society work together to return to clarity in this area?

Thanks again — off to buy your book at Amazon now!

What’s happened is this: THe EU emerged as the world’s largest economy two years ago. The US used to write the rules for global production; now the EU is presenting a challenge….The Bush administration has been retreating from environmental protection for seven years, no news there! But where the new action lies is in Europe, which now presents the central threat to how business conducted here in the US…..Much of the world now, including China, following Europe not US…
And we feel tthese changes most acutely in arena of environmental health–where americans are threatened from substances that increasing numbers of people in other countries around the world are protected from. That includes cosmetics, toys, autos, electronics, etc….

…and as to your comment, Teddy….what can we do? This is definitely a question far bigger than the individual…You the individual can decide what to purchase, how to spend your money, who to vote for.>>But on the big picture level, we need a government committed to making enviro0nment and health a priority……
And here’s the trick…AS I show in my book, when these moves are taken, as they have been in Europe and increasingly elsewhere around the world, the result has not been economic catastrophe, as predicted by industry, but success on an economic level too…And now giving US business, not subject to same toxic screens, a real competitive bite….

In Exposed you describe how the US Chamber of Commerce has acted together in the EU (and US) to curtail environmental protection and oversight.

Now that the failure of the C of C’s lobbying in Brussels has come back to bite them, is the US C of C still unified on opposing regualtion, or are there cracks in the apparent unity?

Does Europe have better food safety than the US?

Mark Schapiro @ 6

…..yes, well this assumes of course that you’re a govt contractor and have the money to afford all this good stuff…Question in my book is: How did US corporations respond when someplace ohter than US–IE THE EU–began writing the rules governing what’s inside all these products? Their toxic content…My findings are not reassuring as to either business or government’s concern for american’s health…

Corporations in the U.S., as I understand it, are compelled to try to maximize return for their investors. That would seem to imply that if we want corporations to care about our health, the environment, or whatever, that we require them to do so with laws or regulations that are enforced.

Welcome Mark and Kirk,
Does our health rely on whatever the big corporations can get away with? Do they use ingredients that have been banned previously, but now feel they can get away with foisting them on us? Can’t wait to get your book!

…and as to question on globalization, Kirk…..One thing is this: When the high speed moves toward globalization occurred in the nineties, it was the US drivintg the train…US played a major role in wrioting the rules of globalization…..one result is driving of enviro and labor standards down…
No one anticipated that a new force could emerge, the EU, that would drive those standards, on enviro and other areas, up…so that’s a big change..>US business did not anticipate the emergence of another competing government force which now has greater market power than the US (480 million people vs. 350 million in US)….

Mark, your book reflects the extensive opportunity you’ve had to work (and live) in the EU. This may be an impossible question, but can you speculate on why EU consumers seem to be so much better informed on the basic safety questions you describe in Exposed?

2 answers.=As to chamber of commerce, there is slow move among major US corporations to see the value for federal regulation, that would bring the whole country up to same place…so those who can or desire to adapt to EU tighter standards not put at disadvanage against those who do not….there is some movement that way…….slow, but happening….

the political culture is different, there is a lively green movement for example..>But another factor not often considered: THe Europeans internatilize their medical costs, meaning : The government pays for health care. Which means they look at the costs of environmental abuse–in health and other factyorjs–and see that ten or twenty years down the line, they, ie govt, will be paying those costs…
Here in US we externalize those costs: Each of us individually pays our own health care, so if there are long term effectws of toxic chemicals, we individually pay the price—so there’s not a strong a motive to do reform, from econ perpsective, as there is in EU

thats a partial answer

another aspect: Nature is not so far away in highly populated Europe…..the greens have been leveraging their influence in govt for twenty years now……and there’s not the visceral resistance to government regulation that there is in the US–where deep in the marrow there’s some sense that government is an intrusive and not protective force…

Mark Schapiro @ 17

2 answers.=As to chamber of commerce, there is slow move among major US corporations to see the value for federal regulation, that would bring the whole country up to same place…so those who can or desire to adapt to EU tighter standards not put at disadvanage against those who do not….there is some movement that way…….slow, but happening….

Sounds like the “big push” we were going to see from big corporations for universal health care that would help them get out from under their legacy costs and be competitive with Japanese automakers. Somehow it never quite happens.

…yeah, funny how that works…universal health care would impel the govnernment and corporations to pay far more attention to the long term collateral health damage from current ways of producting/doing business….

bluejeansntshirt @ 14

Welcome Mark and Kirk,
Does our health rely on whatever the big corporations can get away with? Do they use ingredients that have been banned previously, but now feel they can get away with foisting them on us? Can’t wait to get your book!

bjs, from a physician’s perspective one answer to your first question is:

We are living beings within our environment – everything that enters our soils, water, and atmosphere can affect our health. So long as the megacorps activities relaese toxic substnaces, we are risk.

I’m sure Mark knows far more about the brakes on the megacorps than I do – the section of Exposed in which you describe the EU’s move to force manufacturers to accept responsibility fo rtheir products’ recycling (and all the toxicity before then) makes me feel like I’m living on a different planet (and really want EU residency)

…and I would add another thing, Jane……US companies are now flooding into Brussels with lobbyists…There’s been little threat to their interests for a number of years now in DC, so now the action moves across the Atlantic…US corp and administration lobbyists have flooded into Brussels to try and stop what’s being attempted there…..I quote C Boyden Grey, our ambassador to the EU, extensively…..the US trying hard to stop/block what’s happening, but so far not successfully…in fact, US pressure efforts are boomeranging….

One EU standard I’ve read is changing a consumer product’s appearance worldwide is pedestrian safety standards. Because the EU has mandated these standards, all cars’ front-ends will soon look like Audis, according to car design commentators. Do you know why the EU is so much more concerned about pedestrian safety than our own Congress?

Mark Schapiro @ 18

the political culture is different, there is a lively green movement for example..>But another factor not often considered: THe Europeans internatilize their medical costs, meaning : The government pays for health care. Which means they look at the costs of environmental abuse–in health and other factyorjs–and see that ten or twenty years down the line, they, ie govt, will be paying those costs…
Here in US we externalize those costs: Each of us individually pays our own health care, so if there are long term effectws of toxic chemicals, we individually pay the price—so there’s not a strong a motive to do reform, from econ perpsective, as there is in EU

thats a partial answer

It sounds like the Europeans have institutions in place which let them (oblige them to) consider the true cost to society of courses of action. In the U.S., on the other hand, it sounds like we are being told that the only true cost is the cost to corporations.

Just trying to paraphrase to see if I understand it.

Mark, thanks for telling these dirty secrets of our US magacorps, dumping crap on the US population and writing harmful, anticompetitive regulations into US law in the dark of night through they lobbyists and pen fed politicians.

Heh.

You’d never know from the way I talk I teach MBA’s currently interviewing for $250,000 jobs with signing bonuses.

But I’m sick of a sick economy and an anti-competitive, innovation averse business environment, as well as the dishonesty from the big business community and the poisons pumped out to us all on a daily basis.

Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 22

bluejeansntshirt @ 14

Welcome Mark and Kirk,
Does our health rely on whatever the big corporations can get away with? Do they use ingredients that have been banned previously, but now feel they can get away with foisting them on us? Can’t wait to get your book!

bjs, from a physician’s perspective one answer to your first question is:

We are living beings within our environment – everything that enters our soils, water, and atmosphere can affect our health. So long as the megacorps activities relaese toxic substnaces, we are risk.

I’m sure Mark knows far more about the brakes on the megacorps than I do – the section of Exposed in which you describe the EU’s move to force manufacturers to accept responsibility fo rtheir products’ recycling (and all the toxicity before then) makes me feel like I’m living on a different planet (and really want EU residency)

What we are exposed to which can effect our health is a question of the production by US and other producers…One of the key points in my book: here in the US there are endless struggles by enviros and others over take this toxic out, take this out…industry comes back and says: YOu’re utopian, cool it, get used to modern life, there are trade-offs….I reported on the economics of the industries as well as their enviro decisions in EUrope, and discovered that’s a ruse: INdustries do quite well when they remove toxic substancess..>I wanted at first to call the book: Calling the American Bluff….publisher went with Exposed, and she won (probably wisely)….

Pachacutec @ 26

Mark, thanks for telling these dirty secrets of our US magacorps, dumping crap on the US population and writing harmful, anticompetitive regulations into US law in the dark of night through they lobbyists and pen fed politicians.

Heh.

You’d never know from the way I talk I teach MBA’s currently interviewing for $250,000 jobs with signing bonuses.

But I’m sick of a sick economy and an anti-competitive, innovation averse business environment, as well as the dishonesty from the big business community and the poisons pumped out to us all on a daily basis.

right on Pachutec…bring the message to those quarter million dollar men, and women….

It sounds like the Europeans have institutions in place which let them (oblige them to) consider the true cost to society of courses of action. In the U.S., on the other hand, it sounds like we are being told that the only true cost is the cost to corporations.

Just trying to paraphrase to see if I understand it.

You got it right….in fact, I think US has a false sense of what is quote profitable unquote…….The costs, long term costs of doing business are shunted onto us, taxpayers…..and so short term looksl like profit is not including the huge losses from health and environmental damage down the line….
thats a big difference across atlantic….

Does your book include the beehive collapse in America?

and as to another aspect of that difference, like previous comment suggested: requireement in EU that cos take responsibility for the disposal of their prodeucts, electronics, autos, etc….so in cities across europ you have take back stations…every effort to do the same here in US been blocked…
but effect of that is to encourage companies to develop/invent less toxic and more recyclable components…because they are responsible for bearing the costs of getting rid of them…

Mark, Thank you for researching and writing “Exposed” – great book! Have you sent “Exposed” to the key decision makers at major US and EU organizations responsible for setting policies, and if so what kind of responses have you received concerning the US neglecting and falling behind in terms of addressing these issues. It’s truly appalling that this country seems to be spiraling towards third-world status, due to mis-placed priorities and a “profit-at-all-cost” mindset.

Haven’t read your book yet but wondering how these larger market forces are impacting big pharma, particularly the international market for vaccines. There’s so much controversy here over vaccine safety; the EU/Japan standards are so much higher. Are third world countries gravitating toward these higher safety standards? Can we expect a paradigm shift in the international marketplace that will lead to higher standards here at home?

…alas, book does not include beehive collapse…though that is a mighty powerful metaphor for the whole environmental challenge we now face……must say, I got stung by a bee a couple of weeks ago and was a little more understanding than I might otherwsie have been before this news…

Sandman @ 12

Does Europe have better food safety than the US?

Sandman, simply on the issue of genetically modified crops (aka GMO’s) Mark’s book illustrates how painfully far behind the EU we remain.

GMO foods are so unpopular in Europe that even the Swiss giant Syngenta pulled their GMO operations and relocated to the US.

In the EU, GMO containing foods are labelled as such, and no one will buy them.

Here in the US, no laws require GMO foods to be labelled as such – and not for want of trying – the Frankenseeds industry has fought them off, knowing even US consumers don’t wnat the crap.

Because of Dan Qualye – that eminent scientist – simply asserting that GMOs are the same as normal seeds, the US industry has spread GMO seeds though our nation’s corn and soybeans, with “rogue” GM sees spreading into US rice and – IIRC – alfalfa.

US crop exports have tanked since the introducton of GMO’s. In his book, Mark describes how each load of US grainis tested – not for our benefit, but for EU buyers. WHen they reject GMO crops, we eat the leftovers.

Even African nations requiring food aid won’t accept our GMO surplus crops.

Mark, thanks for a great book and for bringing such important topics to light. Like Jane, one of my questions was “which cosmetics are safe?”

The Campaign for Safe Cosmetics has lots of great info and their *are* green companies out there. I’m actually surprised by how many good options are out there that are American-made. The challenge with European brands is knowing whether or not they’re made under license in the States or not. Are there other resources you can recommend?

Hi, Darrell. :D

Darrell Koerner @ 32

Mark, Thank you for researching and writing “Exposed” – great book! Have you sent “Exposed” to the key decision makers at major US and EU organizations responsible for setting policies, and if so what kind of responses have you received concerning the US neglecting and falling behind in terms of addressing these issues. It’s truly appalling that this country seems to be spiraling towards third-world status, due to mis-placed priorities and a “profit-at-all-cost” mindset.

thanks!….I think there’s a growing sense of how powerful a shift this is, that US is actually becoming a dumping ground for toxics banned elsewhere…At state legislatures starting to jump overhead of DC and look to Brussels for ideas…W/dems in congress, some interest just coming up by Boxer and others in these issues, as they watch US falling behind the world (even Mexico and China in some instances)….

KalenCo @ 36

Mark, thanks for a great book and for bringing such important topics to light. Like Jane, one of my questions was “which cosmetics are safe?”

The Campaign for Safe Cosmetics has lots of great info and their *are* green companies out there. I’m actually surprised by how many good options are out there that are American-made. The challenge with European brands is knowing whether or not they’re made under license in the States or not. Are there other resources you can recommend?

I think its safe to assume that Euro cosmetics have at minimum gone through the negative list screen, ie: no carcinogens, mutagens, neurotoxins….those sold in US would have been formulated according to Europ standards…
The cosmetics to stay away from would be certainly those no name brands which are manufacturerd in china or elsewhere and which may face no makret pressure from Eu to clean up their act…and just direct their products with toxic ingredients to US market…
also, check out Environmental Working Group (ewg.org) for some ideas as to safe cosmetics…

Mark, for our readers who may not be familiar with the divide between our “body count” method of controlling industrial risks vs the EU’s pro-active “precautionary principle” method, could help describe these (mutually exclusive) frameworks and how they determine the EU’s and the US current assumptions about the products they are to regulate?

Very enlightening information.

I know that Canada has sold out to the US in many areas. They grow genetically modified Canola crops, for example. Dow Chemical, Shell Oil, and Haliburton have a considerable presence in Alberta. Property owners get a tax break for allowing polluters to spew toxins into the air.

Whats the story with Canada? Are they getting the same poisonous products as the USA or do they get the EU styled products?

Thanks, Dr. Murphy, I never did trust Monsanto to screw around with corn!

Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 39

Mark, for our readers who may not be familiar with the divide between our “body count” method of controlling industrial risks vs the EU’s pro-active “precautionary principle” method, could help describe these (mutually exclusive) frameworks and how they determine the EU’s and the US current assumptions about the products they are to regulate?

Good question…Basic distinction between US-EU on risk: The EU uses precautionary principles, which is based on aqccumulation of evidence suggests risk, that avoiding the risk is worth moving before an absolute scientific consensus. In the US we demand scientific certainty–a nearly impossible and elusive goal……..We saw that in global warming debate, there is always debate in science, that’s why its called science ad not religion…

But US is hamstrung by system, largely influenced by Industry, making it unable to act due to constraints…EU acts to prevent harm from happening…
thats the basic underlying philosophic difference…and itss having huge impact, now, in the global economy….this is not abstract…huge changes now in the global production as a result of the EURO’S approach, which is part of the sxubject of my book….hope that’s clear…its complicated and simple at the same time:
Euros and americans look at same evidence, and choose to act at very different times (americans often not at all)….

Mark, you are a great commenter, thank you for your work.

hackworth @ 40

Very enlightening information.

I know that Canada has sold out to the US in many areas. They grow genetically modified Canola crops, for example. Dow Chemical, Shell Oil, and Haliburton have a considerable presence in Alberta. Property owners get a tax break for allowing polluters to spew toxins into the air.

Whats the story with Canada? Are they getting the same poisonous products as the USA or do they get the EU styled products?

Canada is beginning to shape its regulatory laws to be in closer conformance with those of the EU….which is now the overall trend….one can sense this taking place because there’s been a flood of lobbyists from dc to ottawa, just as there was from dc to brussels a couple of years ago (and continues)…..

Sandman @ 41

Thanks, Dr. Murphy, I never did trust Monsanto to screw around with corn!

After PCB’s? Those persistent organic pollutants Monsanto marketed to cool electrical transformers – and told us were not pollutants? The same PCB’s now distributed into every one of our bodies – passed through mother’s milk?

You wouldn’t believe that Monsanto?

Me either – which is US industry’s attempt to browbeat the EU out of regulating GMO’s is so sad.

Here we are – the “worlds greatest superpower” – taking science instructions from Dan Quayle.

With – as Mark points out – catastrophic results for US export farmers.

After nearly a century of fighting the heathen Russians Soviets Russians I would thought America had more sense that to poiticize bilogy. When Lysenko tried it under Stalin – by esentially denying genetics -that didn’t work too well, either.

twȝk @ 43

Mark, you are a great commenter, thank you for work.

thank you…Good to have strong questions!

Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 39

Mark, for our readers who may not be familiar with the divide between our “body count” method of controlling industrial risks vs the EU’s pro-active “precautionary principle” method, could help describe these (mutually exclusive) frameworks and how they determine the EU’s and the US current assumptions about the products they are to regulate?

Its sad. Pulling up stakes and moving somewhere safe is prohibitively expensive. I presume that affordable Eastern Bloc nations have likely caved to the USA and are accepting our poisons. Are there any affordable alternatives?

The problem in many industries is that the meme is that the private sector can self police and the market will always find the best “solution”.

This is false. So wherever you have unregulated, poorly regulated, revolving door regulators, and unfettered free market monopoly capitalism you find that the interests of the people, their health and the environment are low on the list of priorites.

The food industry, now food giants like ADM are trying to patent living things.

Pharma is known to introduce billion dollar drugs which have not been properly tested only to have to recall them and fight lawsuits.

There are 10s of thousands of chemicals introduced in the food we eat, and the cosmetics and cleaning materials we use which are not even tested.

….some of those east bloc nations trying to get into EU, like Ukraine and Croatia, so may not be as much the case…..point is how isolated US is becoming…..
As for affordable alternatives, yes they’re all over the place…I’m not in the brand-endorsement business, but plenty of places to find them….check greenguide.com
Also, go to our website: http://www.centerforinvestigativereporting.org . We have some resources, and also a cool map of the world that tells part of this story. Its called EXPOSED: The World Tour.

Shapiro@18

WoW! A very powerful arguement that can be used to support government-funded health in US!

It’s old Europe… they’re quaint little soc*al*sts who are going under. And ungrateful too because we saved their asses in WWII. And they won’t buy our GMFs .. the nerve of those lefties!

Hackworth, one aspect of Mark’s book which gives me great hope is that the US megacoprs failed to split off the new former Warsaw Pact nations (and their components) from splittiing the EU’s policy.

ALthough we may not be seeing the zenith of the US megacorps’ power at home, in the EU’s regulatory efforts the US megacorps appear to have lost the plot.

Not a moment too soon for our planet.

…could be, it seems pretty clear to me…

If the French can afford to do this, why can’t we?

Maybe because the French get paid a living wage?

hey all…I see clock ticking…Great talking with you…I hope you enjoy the book!

Cheers, Mark

46% of USAmericans take at least one prescription drug daily. Do you know what the percentage is for the EU, and is direct-to-consumer drug advertising permitted there?

this subject is near and dear to every parent. the chinese ‘lead’ story can be a pathway to eye-opening on many levels.

i intend to find this book and after reading it send it to a dear family member, a committed g.o.p.er who nevertheless retains some common sense.

The EPA recently approved Methyl iodide, also known as iodomethane, to control soil pests saying its own scientific review overrides health concerns expressed by more than 50 chemists and other scientists. A group of 54 scientists, including six Nobel Prize winners, sent a letter to EPA urging that the pesticide not be registered for use because of the potential danger to pregnant women and children, the elderly and farmworkers.

I believe the problem is that ex-ceo’s of corporations are tapped as heads of government offices that were originally created to protect the public’s health and safety. And these ex-ceo’s mission has been to remove consumer safeguards to better serve industry. This administration favors putting the foxes in charge of the chicken house. We need Universal Health Care, and only then will the government be forced to implement necessary control and regulation on runaway industry.

Mme Racine @ 53

If the French can afford to do this, why can’t we?

Maybe because the French get paid a living wage?

you might be onto something there…..though its a ruse to think that americans couldn’t afford this either..>We can. Our companies are offering this stuff to Europeans. We make roughly the same amount of money…..so its a bluff to say otherwise…..

We may die from poison and contamination before we go broke and commit suicide in desperation trying to get our congress critters to do something for the people.

One meat packing company packed it in after distributing 22 million pounds of contaminated beef after a recall of their product.

Our food hardly comes from farms now, it comes from factories. ICK

Mark, one of the most revealing aspects of Exposed is your detailed description of C. Boyden Gray – a grise eminence if ever there were one.

Can you summarize his crawl through America’s government – and what he did to destroy regualtions on his way?

If this is related that’s great, if not just disregard.

Bush promised in the 2000 campaign to reduce mercury pollution, and then changed his mind only two weeks after taking office.

I was heart broken.

Mark Schapiro @ 54

hey all…I see clock ticking…Great talking with you…I hope you enjoy the book!

Cheers, Mark

Mark, thank ou again for this improtant book and your time here at the Lake.

Circle of Poison is still changing the world, twenty-six years on.

I’m confident Exposed will be every bit as powerful.
Thank you.

Mark Schapiro @ 49

….some of those east bloc nations trying to get into EU, like Ukraine and Croatia, so may not be as much the case…..point is how isolated US is becoming…..
As for affordable alternatives, yes they’re all over the place…I’m not in the brand-endorsement business, but plenty of places to find them….check greenguide.com
Also, go to our website: http://www.centerforinvestigativereporting.org . We have some resources, and also a cool map of the world that tells part of this story. Its called EXPOSED: The World Tour.

Your centerforinvestigativereporting website is new to me. I will be reading it. Thanks for this work.

In America, we are the guinea pigs. Animals have to get sick and die. Kids have to get e coli in order to start an investigation.
In the EU, it seems that their agencies are doing their best to be proactive.

Do I have it?

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 56

this subject is near and dear to every parent. the chinese ‘lead’ story can be a pathway to eye-opening on many levels.

i intend to find this book and after reading it send it to a dear family member, a committed g.o.p.er who nevertheless retains some common sense.

hello Mabel’s wig shack….yes, thanks…I think that’s the point…To a great extent this goes way beyond ideololgy……unless you’d like to subordinate your own health concerns to the bottom line concerns of some distant corporation…..because the economics as well as the health together make sense…it shouldn’t be a repub/demo issue, thouth it often unfolds that way…..

Mark Schapiro @ 54

hey all…I see clock ticking…Great talking with you…I hope you enjoy the book!

Cheers, Mark

If you go out on a tour in support of this book we’d love to host you in Oakland. We’ve done so for other authors at our chapter of Drinking Liberally, Oakland.

Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 60

Mark, one of the most revealing aspects of Exposed is your detailed description of C. Boyden Gray – a grise eminence if ever there were one.

Can you summarize his crawl through America’s government – and what he did to destroy regualtions on his way?

…well, I guess we’re still on here!….as for Amb. Grey…..He was an expert in risk assessment in Bush 1, took a major role in dismantline the ability of EPA/FDA, etc to regulate hazarouds substances….Then he became a leader of a group during Clinton to push deregulatory ideas through Congress…then under Bush 2 created a movement to put business friendly judges on the bench….which largely succeeded….A

As the EU enviro regs took on steam in 05/06 Bush appointed him to be ambassador to the EU….specifically to attempt to push back with american idea of risk and regulation….his efforts have largely been stymied……and he now conceded to me as much…Read more in chapter 7, he’s an eloquent/forceful/defender of the status quo….

A.Citizen @ 65

Mark Schapiro @ 54

hey all…I see clock ticking…Great talking with you…I hope you enjoy the book!

Cheers, Mark

If you go out on a tour in support of this book we’d love to host you in Oakland. We’ve done so for other authors at our chapter of Drinking Liberally, Oakland.

hey drinking liberally, that sounds like a cool idea….contact me at Center for INvestigative Reporting in berkeley….

From Mr. Shapiro’s link: Phlalates for American Children and no phlalates for EU children from Chinese factories.

Could you hold the phlalates please? What a nightmare Republicans and their enablers have unleashed on a Britney Spears public.

hackworth @ 68

From Mr. Shapiro’s link: Phlalates for American Children and no phlalates for EU children from Chinese factories.

Could you hold the phlalates please? What a nightmare Republicans and their enablers have unleashed on a Britney Spears public.

well, that is thepoint….Chinese factories produce toys without phthalates for European children, and toys with them for american children…..

I see you moved fast, that’s straight from our Exposed: The World Tour, which is a neat way to get a picture of the changing enviro dynamic drawn from the book….if I may say so…

Thanks so much for catching up on C. Boyden. When I read what he’d told you about being stymied, I did a Snoopy happy dance…

My cats have almost recovered.

Once again, thanks for yur generosity in sharing your time and expertise with us – especially on your first weekend back from your book tour.

…and phthalates are considered by many scientists, american as well as european, to be serious disrupters to the development of testosterone in infant males…not something you want to play with…

thanks once again to you all…..thanks for the good questions…hope the book opens a few new doors….

MarkS

Mark, your answer above about Canada following the EU more than the US in regulation surprised me a bit. Aren’t NAFTA and other efforts to develop standardization across North America in part a pushback against the EU’s harder regulations, thus binding Canada closer to the US than the EU?

Mercury in flu shots for Americans, no mercury for EU.

Good discussion Kirk, thanks.

Great conversation today, thanks Kirk and Mark!

I wish the politicians we’ve invited to the lake were as rapid and thorough as Mark has been in his reponses. I think I’ve overloaded on learning something new today. Thanks, Kirk

Teddy and tw3k and skeptic and Sandman and bluejeanshirt and all who joined Mark today at the Lake – thanks for your kind words to me – but most of all thanks for your excellent questions and observations.

Your participation – together with Mark – is what makes these salons work.

Thanks to all of you and to Mark Schapiro for creating today’s FDL Book Salon.

Thank you very much for being a part of this discussion. I have always been wary and careful of American products and processing, but unfortunately as a schoolteacher it all seems for naught. The public school I work in is inner-city and the chemicals involved in manufacturing teaching materials and cleaning are, I have no doubt, carcinogenic and perhaps mutagenic.

The sad thing is that there is so little one can do to provide children with a clean and healthy environment. Parents should be concerned what their children are being exposed to in public schools.

Thanks Mark and Kirk, Gotta go and read some more ingredient listings. And btw Kirk, I always look forward to your comments here at the lake.
bluejeansntshirt

Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 78

Teddy and tw3k and skeptic and Sandman and bluejeanshirt and all who joined Mark today at the Lake – thanks for your kind words to me – but most of all thanks for your excellent questions and observations.

Your participation – together with Mark – is what makes these salons work.

Thanks to all of you and to Mark Schapiro for creating today’s FDL Book Salon.

Well my questions were addressed by other smart pups :)

I really enjoyed Mark’s insightful and optimistic comments. These health and environmental issues can be corrected and thankfully the EU is taking a lead and providing a roadmap.

Thanks so much for being here today, Mark. It’s a great book and I sincerely hope you’ve opened up a conversation on this topic that will be continued.

Mark,

Keep up the important work on these subjects! I can’t stay – busy winterizing and pulling the last stuff from our organic garden in Alaska.

My bodyguard works in the maritime industry. He says that the oil companies are having their support industry partners – tugs, tankers, terminals – pull all references to toxicity of Corexit 9527 from their employee safety and Hazmat manuals. Do you know why the energy industry might be doing this?

Jane Hamsher @ 83

Thanks so much for being here today, Mark. It’s a great book and I sincerely hope you’ve opened up a conversation on this topic that will be continued.

…thanks, Jane…Good to be here……I certainly think its an issue that gives americans a new way to understand how dramatically things have changed in these past years…

I appear to have missed the Q&A but wanted to say thanks to FDL for Book Salon, Mark Schapiro for spending his first weekend out of book tour here with us, and Dr Murphy for bringing this to our attention. Things certainly have changed and not for the better.

Speaking of:

“also brings home to ordinary Americans the global consequences of the Bush/Clinton/Bush admins’ progressively deepening infatuation with and subservience to the religion of “free-market” ideology and regulatory antipathy….”

I’d really like to see a book on the innerworkings of the DLC.

Which of the DLC Team Leaders are environmentalists?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 86

Speaking of:

“also brings home to ordinary Americans the global consequences of the Bush/Clinton/Bush admins’ progressively deepening infatuation with and subservience to the religion of “free-market” ideology and regulatory antipathy….”

I’d really like to see a book on the innerworkings of the DLC.

That would be to sad..)

Suggested title:

Democrats You Want To Have A Beer With.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 88

Which of the DLC Team Leaders are environmentalists?

In their current incarnations? None.

From the CIR site: Corporate European Observatory in Amsterdam

apple pie @ 80

Thank you very much for being a part of this discussion. I have always been wary and careful of American products and processing, but unfortunately as a schoolteacher it all seems for naught. The public school I work in is inner-city and the chemicals involved in manufacturing teaching materials and cleaning are, I have no doubt, carcinogenic and perhaps mutagenic.

The sad thing is that there is so little one can do to provide children with a clean and healthy environment. Parents should be concerned what their children are being exposed to in public schools.

apple pie, bless you for your work with our nation’s future.

FWIW, many other educators share your concerns – and are seeking solutions. The folks at California Safe Schools may be potential allies – and are looking at least-toxic cleaning methods.

Good luck!

Great topic! Has anyone read some of the stuff out there about GMO’s? A very good read: Seeds of Deception by Jeffery Smith

It is also about how our plutocratic system has allowed poison to be rammed down our throats.

Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 91

apple pie @ 80

Thank you very much for being a part of this discussion. I have always been wary and careful of American products and processing, but unfortunately as a schoolteacher it all seems for naught. The public school I work in is inner-city and the chemicals involved in manufacturing teaching materials and cleaning are, I have no doubt, carcinogenic and perhaps mutagenic.

The sad thing is that there is so little one can do to provide children with a clean and healthy environment. Parents should be concerned what their children are being exposed to in public schools.

apple pie, bless you for your work with our nation’s future.

FWIW, many other educators share your concerns – and are seeking solutions. The folks at California Safe Schools may be potential allies – and are looking at least-toxic cleaning methods.

Good luck!

I like the Edible Schoolyard idea :D

twȝk @ 94

Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 91

apple pie, bless you for your work with our nation’s future.

FWIW, many other educators share your concerns – and are seeking solutions. The folks at California Safe Schools may be potential allies – and are looking at least-toxic cleaning methods.

Good luck!

I like the Edible Schoolyard idea :D

In LA we have one of the lowest ratios of parkland to people of any US metro area. In LA’s most densely populated neighborhoods (Pico-Union, Midtown, etc) community gardens are so scarce as to be unheard of – and vacant lost (if they exist) are fenced off.

For kids from those areas, the edible schoolyards may be their only opportunity to see their food growing in the ground.

This connection – before age 10 – between kids and the natural world seems to be seesential for the formatin of biophilia – love for/appreciation of the natural world.

As America’s century of buying useless crap and confusing that with joy appears to be ending, providing young people with the opportunity to feel joy in the living world is all the more precious – and the edible schoolyard program affords one such opportunity.

Glad you liked it – and good on ‘em!

If we don’t do something about pollution, nothing else will matter.

lahoma

new post

Jane upstairs.

Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 95

twȝk @ 94

I like the Edible Schoolyard idea :D

In LA we have one of the lowest ratios of parkland to people of any US metro area. In LA’s most densely populated neighborhoods (Pico-Union, Midtown, etc) community gardens are so scarce as to be unheard of – and vacant lost (if they exist) are fenced off.

For kids from those areas, the edible schoolyards may be their only opportunity to see their food growing in the ground.

This connection – before age 10 – between kids and the natural world seems to be seesential for the formatin of biophilia – love for/appreciation of the natural world.

As America’s century of buying useless crap and confusing that with joy appears to be ending, providing young people with the opportunity to feel joy in the living world is all the more precious – and the edible schoolyard program affords one such opportunity.

Glad you liked it – and good on ‘em!

It sure would be an amazing opportunity. Observing and experiencing the growth cycle is not only educational but additionally gives you a greater connection to the earth. Vertical Gardens can also be designed to maximize space.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 96

If we don’t do something about pollution, nothing else will matter.

lahoma

so true, lahoma -

turns out the climate change models have been wrong – just as industry claimed.

but not in the direction industry claimed.

you see, the climate change models industry tells us exagerate global warmig/climate change?

actually underestimated the changes.

we’re seing this year what wasn’t expected for decades:

Global warming is accelerating three times more quickly than feared, a series of startling, authoritative studies has revealed.

They have found that emissions of carbon dioxide have been rising at thrice the rate in the 1990s. The Arctic ice cap is melting three times as fast – and the seas are rising twice as rapidly – as had been predicted.

[snip]

The study, published by the US National Academy of Sciences, shows that carbon dioxide emissions have been increasing by about 3 per cent a year during this decade, compared with 1.1 per cent a year in the 1990s.

The significance is that this is much faster than even the highest scenario outlined in this year’s massive reports by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) – and suggests that their dire forecasts of devastating harvests, dwindling water supplies, melting ice and loss of species are likely to be understating the threat facing the world.

twȝk @ 99

Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 95

In LA we have one of the lowest ratios of parkland to people of any US metro area. In LA’s most densely populated neighborhoods (Pico-Union, Midtown, etc) community gardens are so scarce as to be unheard of – and vacant lost (if they exist) are fenced off.

This is the area I work in, and we do have a small student garden at my school. While I am concerned with the students nutrition, I was trying to highlight the more insidious nature of chemical contaminants. I have hectored the District to get info about ‘remediated’ superfund sites that surround the school. They hemmed and hawed and finally buried me in paperwork that only an environmental engineer could understand.

I have filed Williams lawsuit complaints on health conditions only to see them fixed ineffectively so that the problems reappear, and then there are the air conditionong ducts….

But I am most concerened about long-term effects such as cancers and other diseases. As you are probably aware, breast cancer rates for teachers are higher then normal, and at my school there has been a disturbing pattern of diseases affecting teachers who have taught more then a decade at the site.

And yes i know of the great work done by California Safe Schools, and the integrated pest management (IPM) system that LAUSD uses is supposed to be quite good…still…there are those patterns of disease…

apple pie, I’m sorry I missed your main point about chemical contamination – you are quite correct, and the issue of site contamination is very real.

the long twisted history of “brownfield” sites supposedly “remediated” for schoolyards – not to mention the schools contaminated by adjacent sites (like the Montrose chemical plant in the LA Basin) gives me the creeps.

you’re also quite correct about the disconnect between disease patterns and any new policy – the policy was only adopted in March of 99, and “today’s” malignancies are often decades in the making….

which means cancer/infertility/birth defect/developmental abnormality rates will climb for a few decades after all this crap is out of our lives – or, more likely, our great-grandchildrens’.

Assuming anyone is there to bear them.

Very late getting here, but maybe someone can respond or gain from this anecdote of mine.

Been fighting Fibromylgia several years and refusing the plethora of drugs recommended by the M.D.; the diagnosis after several years of suspected heart attack and/or strokes is unusual for a relatively healthy fifty-one year old male in decent shape.

I Googled aspartame one day looking for an artificial sweetener for tea, since I drank A LOT of diet soda.

Donald Rumsfeld and Monsanto end up being instrumental in ramrodding approval of it as a food additive in the early eighties, after which the head of the FDA goes to work for Mosanto or one of their lobbying firms, I can’t remember now.

Long story short, I eliminated aspartame (originally developed as ant poison and 200 times more powerful than sugar) from my diet including no more sugarless gum several months ago and my symptoms are almost in complete remission.

What is the EU position on aspartame and why isn’t it common knowledge in this country that untested (actually tests were doctored – some literally cutting the tumors out of test mice – at the time and since then others have shown cancer occurs in mice) additives were approved for broad consumption in shady backroom deals?

I know, money talks, but we’re sitting ducks for the corporations in the U.S.

I was almost “saved” by Big Pharma though, with anti-depressants, muscle relaxers, and pain pills.

NOT ONE doctor has ever mentioned potential chemical causes for the pervasive daily pain I used to have.

One corporation poisons and the others step in to make money off the treatment. Color me p_ssed.

I’ll be ordering this book and spreading the word, thanks!

Hey Kirk,
No problem, thanks for spreading the message…guess we are all tired of being the acceptable risk. Those phtalates are scary, hope Calif bans then and Shwarzeneggar does not veto the ban.

Jim R @103

If you happen to stop back …

I was diagnosed with multiple chemical sensitivities in th early 1990’s. I had to change my life and I’m still struggling with anxiety that may have been an underlying spiritual cause of the whole thing. I use almost no cosmetics, personal care, or cleaning products. And everything else from clothing to home renovations are complicated and very restricted. But I’m healthy. I use a pharmacist-made medication for the one that I must take and after being given a medication that contained ASPARTAME last year, I am sworn off even trying any thing big pharma has to offer anymore. I have had to educate my gp and even my specialist in MCS has several perplexing blind spots as well.

I’m so frustrated by the story of a long-time friend’s son who has fibromyalgia and just doesn’t seem to ‘get’ it.

Very encouraged to hear your story: keep up the good work!

The other day I heard that here in Canada an activist group is now looking into silicone-based polutants that are in shampoo!!!! The whole personal care and cosmetic industry is riddled with carcinogens and people are oblivious!

And there is even fragrance in house paint.

I could go on … I really appreciate books like this: I learned things I didn’t know about the ‘bigger picture!’

Thanks, fdl reader; I think mine has its roots in multiple physical trauma going back to a bad motorcycle wreck in 82′, and has caused sensitivity that is now aggravated by an array of chemicals.

I love the part where my M.D. said she couldn’t fathom a man my age in so much pain without medication.