Call this part 2.5 of the “How the Economy Works” Series. A correspondent recently suggested to me that the point needs to be reinforced that a lot of people who voted for Bush aren’t (or rather, weren’t back in 2002 and 2004 (and to a less extent 2006, which was closer than the top-line numbers indicate)) losing from Bush’s policies. Not yet, anyway. So let’s talk about who won, and who lost in this Bush administration.
Winners
Resource Extraction: If you work in a primary extraction industry such as lumber, oil, natural gas or many mining concerns then the Bush administration has been good for you. Commodity prices are on a long term bullish swing that started around 1999 to 2000 and Bush’s policies have generally encouraged high commodity prices. In some cases that was the intention, in others it was accidental, but the end result is the same – for the first time in 25 to 35 years your industry is able to sell its goods for more than the year before.
Military Industrial Complex: either the actual military; the towns that exist around military bases; the mercenary and “security” companies who are being used very heavily; the contractors such as Halliburton or the companies that make the military’s goods (which includes essentially every aviation company in the country) the last few years have been very good for you indeed. Entire rural areas are effectively completely dependent on the military. Their sons and husbands may be getting killed, but the money has been flooding.
Prison Industrial Complex: This is no different than under the Clinton years, but those reliant on this industry feel more comfortable with Republicans in charge, especially Republicans like George Bush. As with the military industrial complex entire rural areas are completely dependent on this industry, which locks up more people than any other nation in the world, recently beating out Russia for top spot. Since the industry is rife with corruption and brutality (including condoned rape and torture) having a President like Bush who approves of such is an extra measure of safety. Likewise politicans who are strongly for maintaining mandatory sentencing laws and harsh drug laws are a necessity for the industry to continue prospering.
The Privileged: Anyone who is in a position to effectively determine his or her own salary, which means most executives; as well as anyone who makes most of his or her money from unearned income has done very well under Bush’s tax cut regime. The cuts on dividend taxes alone have lead to the biggest cash out from corporations in modern times and the continued open window on options has likewise lead to looting of corporations by their own executives and officers not seen since the days of the Robber Barons. It doesn’t matter if you’re an executive in a losing industry – you are still personally a winner, since you can cash out a good chunk of the value of the company even as the company goes into bankruptcy (Delphi execs giving themselves massive bonuses, for example.)
The Medical Industry: Since the medical industry doesn’t face overseas competition, it has consistently been able to raise prices faster than inflation. People have to have it. This includes hospitals, HMO’s, medical insurance of all varieties and the drug companies, who have had their intellectual property vociferously defended at the cost of the lives of those who can’t afford retail medicine prices.
Developers and the Real Estate Industry: People in the building trades, mortgage brokers, developers and real estate speculators all did very well out of the Bush economy until very recently. Certainly they were doing well at election times.
Arbitrageurs: Pretty much anyone in the financial industry with sense. Since the rate you can borrow money at is much less than the rate of inflation in various areas (real estate and commodities, most notably), making money for those who can afford to borrow money has been relatively simple. This also affects, as noted above, anyone who is rich enough to have access to substantial credit on good terms.
The Losers
Anyone except the Executives in any industry that is subject to foreign competition: This means almost any type of manufactured good, from cars to textiles to computers. If it is physically made somewhere and then shipped to consumers then labor arbitrage has meant that the US simply cannot compete with lower wage domiciles. For workers this has meant either losing their jobs or coming under huge pressure to drop wages or benefits.
Hourly Wage Employees: All social programs are under continued pressure and hourly wages are up slightly from the beginning of Bush’s regime (call it a 27 cent raise based on real numbers). However when you consider their increased debt load and factor in inflation in the necessities (medical care, food, energy) their position is substantially worse than it was at the beginning of the Bush regime. There are some exceptions in various specific industries, but as a whole this is true.
Knowledge Workers: Now that the knowledge industry of the last boom is being standardized time pressure is off and the skills have spread. That puts programmers and other such scut workers of the digital world in a position without pricing power. I’m going to take a second to note that in the 90’s I warned this day was coming – owners and executives did everything they could to reduce the pricing power of such workers. In general the telecom revolution means that most knowledge jobs that don’t require face-to-face interaction are under the same labor arbitrage pressure that manufacturing workers have been facing for a long time. Brains are not scarce in the world as a whole.
Debtors: Perhaps the oldest form of social analysis is that of debtor and creditor. While the experience of creditors over the last few years has been mixed (some have done gangbusters, other are going to take it on the chin over the next couple of years), debtors have been clear losers. The new bankruptcy act is extremely harsh, and written by credit card companies. Effective interest rates for the poor and middle class for anything other than house backed loans generally start at 18% and go up to around 60%. For the truly poor, payday loans and other such scams have interest rates of effectively hundreds of percent a year. Again, this did not start under Bush, but he and the Republican Congress have been particulary kind to this sort of usury.
Union Workers: Generally these workers are in older mature manufacturing and transport industries. They have been having their lunch eaten and will continue to do so. They have almost no bargaining power against labor arbitrage. In fact you can calculate their bargaining power by the sunk costs of the capital equipment and training in North America. Then divide that amount by how long it would take to make the money back overseas. The number, when you take into account depreciation and tax breaks, is a lot lower than you’d think. As each facility becomes obsolete and has to be replaced/upgraded anyway, that factor nearly disappears.
Students and young workers: The huge growth in university tuitions, the decline in aid, the increase in reliance on loans, the anemic entry job market and the below inflation growth of wages in many sectors means that the young have never seen good years and have little reason to think that they will. The inflation of housing prices in the bubble means that most will never own a house unless they are willing to take on near catastrophic levels of debt (on top of their student loans). Many have put off having children due to debt.
In Between
Home Owners in most areas: A couple years ago this would have been firmly in the “win” category. Because if you owned a house in most areas, you’d seen its value appreciate substantially. Your net worth had gone up. And odds are, if you had a mortgage, its carrying cost has gone down. This is now a mixed bag. A lot of people are sitting on unrealized (and probably unrealizable) gains. A lot of people are under water, with mortgages worth more than the houses. A lot of people are watching their carrying costs rise, and getting set for them to rise even more (ARM resets start with a vengeance in 2008). Still, a lot of householders did see substantial increases and they still think of themselves as winners from the housing bubble. In a few years they won’t. However, note very carefully that in 2004 and 2006 homeowners as a class would have seen themselves as better off thanks to Bush – not worse off. The bubble’s popping hadn’t happened yet. And Bush ain’t running in 2008. I’d say that bubble worked out okay for him in political terms.
Pensioners: Pensioners are in an odd position. They have mostly been winners, since COLA adjustments have been higher than their actual perceived inflation. Pensioners with houses have done especially well. However they have suffered from health care inflation and as energy and food inflation have hit they have been starting to hurt, and as the United Airlines pension precedent spreads through its more virulent Delphi form they will discover that their pensions can be unilaterally decreased. Pensioners are going to take it on the chin going on for many years to come. But this is just beginning for them.
Suburbanites: The housing boom has been very kind to suburbanites. The value of their houses has increased at a fine clip. However as gas prices increase they have found themselves in a trap – they can’t sell their houses as the bubble bursts, and they must drive to get to work and to go shopping. As a result, while they have mostly been doing ok, with housing asset price rises more than offsetting flat or declining wages they are about to become very unhappy. There will be nothing most can do to escape the trap, however.
Concluding Remarks:
In many respects the Bush economy was and is an awful economy. But there have been a lot of people who have or did, short term at least, win. Many of those are indeed short term winners – such as most house owners. The housing bubble deflation or crack, plus the oncoming inflation, will eat away all of their gains and then some. Others have been real winners – the executives and the privileged who were able to cash out on favourable terms will be rich for the remainder of their lives, provided they aren’t idiots.
In general, those in the protected economy have done reasonably well. In some cases very well, and those in the non-protected economy (anyone who has to compete with anyone outside the US) has not done well. The main exception is that anyone who is in a position to cash out other people’s equity has also done very well.
While there will continue to be ups and downs, in general the Bush economy set up a number of very ugly traps; vicious spirals, which will put a lot of people in economic positions from which there is no escape. Many of these traps will grind exceedingly fine over a number of years, extending the pain for quite some time.
As a brief example, while the health care industry has been doing fine, a collapse of either the real estate or the military sector (or worse, both) will lead to people simply not being able to pay their prices. At which point they will likewise lose pricing power. The only people who retain pricing power throughout all of this, for sure, are those selling energy. Because you have to have it and it will take a long time, and a lot of very fine grinding, before suburbanites and exurbanites give up their houses.
But in general the thing to remember is that a lot of people did just fine out of the Bush economy. They turned on him when they stopped doing fine. That time has started in 2006 and it will continue. The political lesson is clear: hang this not just on Bush, but on the Republicans as a whole. The economic lessons should also be fairly clear, but I doubt they are. More on that in later installments of the series.
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Ian!
Afternoon, Ian!
Happy Thanksgiving, Ian!!! *g*
Hi Ian !
In this vein, BushCo & friends have seen his presidency as a rousing success.
Hi Ian,
Happy Thanksgiving
Trickle down economics doesn’t work. It’s a lie.
Huzzah for Ian!
A wee bit tangential to Ian’s post:
I really got a kick out of a Glenn Greenwald item today:
Some of John Cole’s goodies:
GeorgeSimian @ 6
Consistently, since it was first coined by Ray-Gun…!!!
Ian, Have you read Naomi Klein’s book on “The Shock Doctrine”? I feel that we have been living under that system since Reagan. I hate to admit it but I remember watching the series on Milton Friedman on PBS many years ago. About all I can remember after close to 30 years is that slum landlords were good and decided then and there that wasn’t for me.
Winners and Losers may I suggest the Meat Packing industry for winners, and for losers those of us who still eat meat despite all the recalls.
Which given the Bushies reluctance to do recalls kind of scares me when they do, do recalls especially on domestic products.
Living in the south when I’m questioned on my views about the unFair Tax or trickle down theories all I say is that I believe in a strong middle class so of course I disagree. It does seem to shut them up.
I wonder if India is looking at planning flights specifically for Americans without insurance (or those who have been denied coverage) needing surgery. Or is there a closer location with highly qualified surgeons and world-class hospitals and technology? I think that if our medical insurance corporations saw that they don’t hold all the aces, this trend could be reversed.
Shorter Junya’s Economic Message: “Don’t worry about that future balloon payment ’cause a mortgage is jest a piece of paper. Let’s all have another beer or two.”
The Ownership Economy: Have you been assigned an owner yet?
shit. I just wrote all this on the last thread and then……well, you know.
Sorry, Ian, but I have to get this off my proverbial chest. How about if anyone want to respond they do it on the last thread.
Great post, Ian. However, under Winners, you have
For those at Sego and Crandall Canyon, things haven’t worked out so well.
Elaine Chao, please call your office.
This is why such creatures at ‘Bush Dogs’ and ‘Bush Bitches’ exist. Many, many Amurkkkans are doin’ jes fine off the war, and yeah I do know it’s an occupation, and see no real reason to change much.
Just exactly like Vietnam.
The problems start when the occupation ends.
Big time.
Folks – there are threads where past issues are being discussed as we speak. Previous threads are useful here.
Thank you.
Hi
Thanks for putting this story together and I hope you will follow it up with others.
jo6pac
Loo Hoo. @ 12
I’ve seen on TV where some people are going to India for medical procedures, some to Mexico. It’s apparently a “growth industry.”
“Brains are not scarce in the world as a whole.”
I just loved that observation.
Hey Ian. So true. What a list. But as for Rethugs supporting this regime until recently, I see that first hand. Now, the economy is pinching and hurting the – to me – rich – one million a year set. They’re disgruntled, cutting back. (Means – no first class vacation to New Zealand or Bora Bora this year). Dissatistfied.
Oddmommy @15 what do you consider ok and what is beyound the bounds? I myself think that actual policy by Israel and reacting to comments by Jewish Politicans like Holy Joe is ok.
The Israel lobby controlling everything talk seems paranoid. But Bush does try and get support for his policies by saying they help Israel.
Where do you suggest we draw the line?
“The main exception is that anyone who is in a position to cash out other people’s equity has also done very well.”
Ian,
Would you explain to me what you mean here? How does someone cash in on other people’s equities? Do you mean looting executives, eg?
Hey, what are you calling “unearned income”? Why, I must spend 15 minutes each month reading those statements. That’s a quarter hour of my life I’ll never get back.
Sorry, I’m just not in a serious mood today. Good article, though, and I think you’ve covered most of the winners, at least. The list of losers may be considerably longer, however.
Nice to see the prison group up high on the list.
Loo Hoo. @ 12
I don’t know about flights, but last year I saw several ads on European TV touting operations in India. If it’s not covered by your insurance (it happens over there too, apparently) it is cheaper to fly to India, stay there, (and maybe get some vacation too), and apparently the level of health care is quite high, in the right places anyway.
Oddmommy, please don’t let it fester in your bosom, do express it, Life is too short… …the Lake is accommodating to all, we should all check our ego’s at the shoreline, before we jump in… I am a pensioner, I wish I owned a little piece… Yet, I harbor no ill will for anyone here, and respect everyone’s views even if I disagree…!!! *g*
Oddmommy, In the evening hour some of the comments seem to point in the direction of specific countries rather than in the leadership of those countries. I certainly agree with you that discussion on this blog should not require a dictionary to look up what anti this or anti that means. We should feel free to express opinions without being labeled. Most posters do not harbor anti-Semitic views and if they do they are banned. My ex and I if we had chosen to stay together could have had a comfortable retirement but that’s not to be. Now I’m 58 with an okay savings but not large by any standards and need a job. I worked for IBM in the early seventies as a system analyst but alas I decided to stay at home with the children so my husband could advance his career so my skills are rusty to say the least. We are all different but we all, including you, have an important voice.
Says who?
CTuttle @ 26
Is this EPU’d re oddmommy’s post on the last thread? If so, I just posted her a comment there, but the thread seems to have more-or-less run out.
After the Coal mine collapse in Utah a red state I think mine safty and more costly regulation will be coming soon to that industry.
Costly in money perhaps but less costly in lives, its amazing how little the prolifers care about dangerous working conditions in American business.
carolyn urban @ 29
707!!!
carolyn urban @ 28
As a resource that’s economically exploitable, it’s a true statement. As an observation of how well those brains may be used, it’s considerably less true.
Thus, the irony.
The Lurking Mod @ 18
uh, yeah. I thought I said that.
Hi Ian,
This is an amazingly helpful analysis, looking at each specific group that has gained or lost under this administration. We are fortunate to have you post here.
Winners
Resource Extraction
Military Industrial Complex
Prison Industrial Complex
The Privileged
The Medical Industry
Developers and the Real Estate Industry
Arbitrageurs
The Losers
Anyone except the Executives in any industry that is subject to foreign competition
Hourly Wage Employees
Knowledge Workers
Debtors
Union Workers
Students and young workers
In Between
Home Owners in most areas
Pensioners
Suburbanites
Elliott @ 20
The Wisdom to use the knowledge well is. Trying to be fair to everybody and help the majority advance equally even at the expense of your self would be useful guidelines for those with brains.
Mr. Welsh if your reading the comments, I would be interested in your reaction to David Stockman’s hedge fund spending $360 million to buy Collins and Aikman, an auto parts company and then installing Stockman as CEO and it going bankrupt, Stockman losing $13 million of his own money. By the way Stockman has been indicted for fraud.
How can somebody with all those investing advantages blow it all?
egregious @ 36
The NYTimes has been doing a series on wealth in America.
I’d add to the losers the portions of American industry which were linking our leads in computer hardware, software and systems integration to technologies concerned with both keeping industry clean and with developing new efficiencies. We were leading in so many high tech areas seven or eight years ago. Some loss to newly developing countries with high numbers of university-educated people – like India – were very inevitable. But the coarseness of Bush/Cheney policies toward technologies which threaten their resource extraction and faith-driven superstition bases have cost us that lead. Forever.
Sandman @ 37
compulsive risk taking?
Winners gamblers at the fianancial markets who max out their abilty to borrow when they gamble at subprime mortgages. Losers those of us tax payers who never borrowed at 12 to 1 leverage and benefited from the winnings, but who none the less will be expected to pay to bail the Bushies out.
END ALL CORPORATE WELFARE NOW!
Sandman @ 38
Perhaps because Bush is not the only “Special Kid ” in our nations wealthy upper class?
CTuttle @ 3
:)
Things Come Undone @ 42
Are you saying “Upper Class” equals “Special Class”? ;)
Ed*ard Teller @ 39
They’ve been stifling innnovation at every turn. You can’t sell anything new here becuase no one takes the risks. The few who do? Sell to more than just the american market to actually make profit. Stifling science, creativity and dissent has pretty much thrown us back decades.
I’m thirty and can see that. I grew UP in the reagan/bush years. Came of age during clinton. We were lagging before, now we’ve been tossed far enough behind that catching up will take a long time. If we ever do in our lifetimes.
Elliott @ 36
Do you want to add soldiers to your Losers list?
JPL @ 9
I haven’t read it yet, but the type of economy produced, as opposed to the procedure for getting there, is quite familiar to me.
By the way if David Stockman sounds familiar, he was Ronald Reagan’s Budget Director during the first term. Don’t inspire much confidence does it?
Cujo359 @ 34
Smart people are common.
Wise people are rare.
But there’s no shortage of people who can crank out, say, bad code.
Loo Hoo. @ 46
I would, but it’s Ian’s list ;)
OT – The word on the Anchorage street is that this coming week will bring between 12 and 15 new GOP corruption indictments. Friday was the last regular day of the current Anchorage Grand Jury, though they can serve through October, IIRC. The word being floated around is that they will involve Ted Stevens and his cronies’ ties to the Seattle-based offshore fishing industry, which has since its inception, shifted billions of dollars in fish processing jobs from Alaska coastal communities to offshore processors based in Seattle or the Orient.
Talked to a guy at a benefit for Veterans this afternoon who had lunch with Ted in DC two weeks ago. He said Ted was so bad off mentally, the guy cried when he left the Presence.
Elliott @ 42
Lot of hedge funds have gone under in the last year and a half, actually – mostly they’ve been bought up by “vulture” funds. Nonetheless, for the investor class as a whole these have been good times because they could borrow cheap and then arbitrage to some place with inflation. But some of those games are coming to an end and the slow/stupid will be caught.
In terms of Stockman in particular, he was probably betting on being able to push costs lower, faster, than he could, though I’m not familiar with the specific case.
aliasofwestgate @ 47
The US is now clearly behind in almost every high tech industry that is not surveillance/military based. It’s a huge probelm, but most Americans don’t realize it.
Ian Welsh @ 49
A concept with which I’m much too familiar. While few bosses I’ve worked with still live in the “lines of code == productivity” world, they don’t all seem to realize that experience and discretion (for lack of a better word for not spending a lot of time doing something useless) count.
I’m curious, why did the market go up so high this last week, even though there are all of these “dire” predictions??? What’s up with that? Layman’s terms, because I am a “laywoman”. Just wondering? I have no real $$$, so what affects me, affects the masses. Short and sweet. Lay it on….what is the bottom line, the whole shebang..the “all she wrote”…the…
A bunch of morons who gave big to the GOP got the government to subsidise their busineses at levels unstainable by demand, the governments abilty to pay, or soon even borrow at this rate of government spending.
To make things worst they borrowed money at artifical low rates thank you Greenspan ya jerk, and then invested in real estate, stocks etc.
Making the bubble bigger. Now we can let ourselves be hosed by these guys or we can make Bush’s base pay to clean up their own mess.
if the economy is doing well in america…why is it when i read my local paper there’s always news of some major company laying off soooo many employees?
Ian Welsh @ 53
Yet, not ironically, we have draconian intellectual property laws in the world. At some point we stopped encouraging new innovations and started rewarding stasis.
Whoa! Wait..i misread the name as Juan Cole. Whew!
Mr Welsh, thanks you very much for answering my question. I have one more if your interested.
Why has the government stopped reporting the money supply, M3? They said it was to save a few million dollars, but I really don’t believe them.
Yeah. The only reason i do see it is because i have family in canada myself. So ‘ve always been aware of the outside world. The isolationism and fearmongering effects nearly everything, down to the most unconcious level. I feel alien in the country i grew up in!
Part of why there’s a very quiet brain drain going on of the more intellectual types for some years. Wasn’t quite so bad with Clinton, i have a feeling it’s doubled in the last 7 years.
LS @ 57
I’ll post a chart of the market one day (maybe next week) which is corrected to be in, oh, Euros.
Essentially, the market is flat since the beginning of the Bush administration – it’s all eaten up by the decline of the dollar. It’s just inflation.
That aside, Bernanke has dropped rates and pushed money out. The yield cure dropped like a rock. The US is still awash in cheap money.
How much this matters in the real economy? Not sure. Not much, I think. The reinflation will probably mostly go to commodities speculation, I’d think. We’ll see. More in another post at some point.
Why hasn’t congress gone after the record profits of the oil companies? Are they going to be able to sustain these profit margins?
juslin @ 57
To play devil’s advocate for a moment, that would probably happen in a healthy economy, too. Just maybe not as much. As things change, some industries (or whatever you want to call different types of business) will do well, and others will not. Buggy whips and audio compact discs come to mind.
To me, the thing that matters is the net – both in the sense of “net growth” and “safety net” for the people who can’t afford to be displaced from an industry because the fools in charge of it couldn’t move with the times.
Cujo359 @ 60
As you note, this is directly related. Harsh IP laws retard progress.
Ian, How do you think the middle class can survive?
Ian Welsh @ 62
Is what you’re implying that the problem isn’t the availability of capitol? Or is it that our dollars, and our products, are easier to buy?
all i need to know re the econ….when i grocery shop the steady rise in prices tells the story…basic foodstuffs are going thru the roof….bread milk cereal and green veggies – off the chart in my area anyway
Big winners ‘Democrat’ Party ‘leadership’. They must think they’ve died and gone to heaven as their legions of fat, stupid consultants have convinced them that all they have to do is prance around and look like they are doing something, S-CHIPS comes to mind, and they will get the keys to the U.S. Treasury in 2008.
Got a news flash fer Miss Nancy, ‘Rabbit’ Rahm and good Ol’
‘Gutless’ Reid….
It ain’t gonna be that easy as ‘folks’ here in Free Left Blogistan are really, really pissed at your moral cowardice and….
we’ve got lots of friends amongst the voters.
Ian Welsh @ 55
Simply because too many are working hand to mouth to eke out an existence…!!! 8-(
cujo359@66
thnx for that answer…but where do those who are downsized find new employment…a rhetorical question for sure
juslin @ 73
Wally World…??? ;-)
Sandman @ 62
Hi
This is as close as any info about M3 money.
http://www.shadowstats.com/cgi-bin/sgs?
Jo6pac
juslin @ 71
I think an enlightened society, as in “understanding its own self-interest”, would make that as easy to do as possible. It’s not easy, of course, even if opportunities for retraining exist and there is no such thing as discrimination in hiring. Such changes often involve relocation, lower starting compensation, and other compromises. But it should be easier than it is now, by a long ways.
Yeah. And their families.
jo6pac @ 75
Mahalo, Bookmarked…!!! *g*
carolyn urban @ 75
The ripple effect…
devastating.
What do Delphi, United Airlines and Bethlehem Steel have in common?
Robert Miller
If you have a pension, freak out if this man comes near your company.
He’s a winner in today’s economy.
Hi everyone. Just got home, and picked up reading where I left off. Then I read the third thread about Desmond Tutu. Here’s what I posted, which may never get released from the land of moderation:
Oh, there was a lot of self congratulatory talk about free speech, but I am in the doghouse for one comment I made when nobody was around!
There was not so much anti-religion talk today, which is good because we are here to all praise Desmond Tutu, a man of God.
There was general acceptance of Tutu’s assertion
Nowhere was this contextualized: Father Dennis says that no Jewish organization asked him not to invite Tutu.
There was a conspicuous lack of any appreciation for the fact that when Tutu or anyone else says what he said above, they in effect silence and dismiss anyone who would have the temerity to defend Israel.
There was no discussion of Tutu’s dismissive attitude towards the Holocaust, which is a sort of “let by-gones be bygones” way of ingoring Israel’s raison d’etre. It’s probably a good thing, because as Gordon M told us the other night, “Israel overplayed that hand a long time ago.”
And there was no warning that if you called someone for uttering anti-Semitic smears — even in jest — you would be effectively barred from the debate.
All of this is good, because it keeps people from having to question their beliefs.
carolyn urban @ 77
Heh, same’o, same’o… However, Shrub has certainly exacerbated their plight since I retired…!!!
I would add farmers, especially big commodity crop farmers (agribusiness) and agricultural processors to winners, at least for last half of the Cheney-Bush years. There has been an inability to make much of a dent in crops subsidies. Worse, no ability to make any dent at all in the worst kind of subsidies (subsidies that bigshots get simply for having grown one of the big subsidy crops in the past). Combine that with tarriff barriers designed to protect energy production interests and more demand for ethanol, you see nice high crop prices for some of the most heavily subsidized crops. Milk products and staple grains for consumer market have gone up. Barely will cost more for beer. I fear even for my beloved buckwheat pancakes.
I think of myself as the moderate realist commneter who actually believes in most standard economic theory who needles Ian Welsh from the right. But I think Ian was too kind to energy producers. Cheney-Bush have gone out of their way to shower energy producers with the egregious subsidies and tax breaks that do little to encourage worthwhile energy exploration and production efforts in the US. They have also completely trashed energy conservation. Remember Cheney trashing the very idea of conservation as useful for anything other than providing an excuse for self-righteousness during California to avoid suffering severly under CA’s botched energy deregulation early in their first term. But conservation efforts were what saved CA’s economy. The very standard middle-of-the-road economist Paul Krugman documented the story in his columns.
There is good evidence that the supply chain of gasoline and fuel oil in the US has been effectively cartelized (refinery industry is one exaple). Given that and the upward long term investment swing in commodity prices after the big boom and bust cycle in the 70s and 80s, energy producers would have done fine without all the tax breaks and subsidies.
AnnieW @ 78
Scavengers typically do well in most ecosystems.
i’m trying to understand why we’re not rioting in the streets…when we take into account all the dissembling of the constitution…jobs being sent off-shore…unions with no clout…citizens being ignored by BOTH parties…now what did jefferson say about refreshing the gov’t? ;-}
juslin @ 82
And it seems about time for a cleanse
Oh boy, did I garble that one up in comment 82; I meant to say:
Remember Cheney trashing the very idea of conservation as useful for anything other than providing an excuse for self-righteousness during CA’s botched energy deregulation early in their first term. But conservation efforts were what saved CA’s economy. The very standard middle-of-the-road economist Paul Krugman documented the story in his columns.
—-
I have the flue and am woozy. That is my excuse this time.
juslin @ 84
I can prep some chamber pots… To go along with the pitchforks and torches…!!! Careful, we might get moderated along the way…!!! *g*
Feel better.
cnn is reporting that Limbaugh is a candidate for the nobel prize. of course it is not true and is an old story. CNN officially is in the tank for the goopers.
Tue, Apr 3, 2007 11:43am ET
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Self-described Nobel Peace Prize “accredited nominee” Limbaugh: “I don’t even know why Gore’s qualified for this”
On the March 30 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, after noting that Ole Danbolt Mjos, the chairman of the Nobel Peace Prize committee, reportedly “praise[d]” former Vice President Al Gore’s efforts to draw attention to global warming, Rush Limbaugh declared: “I don’t even know why Gore’s qualified for this. … I have done more for world peace to promote liberty and freedom than Al Gore has.” Limbaugh stated that he is “an accredited nominee this year for the Nobel Peace Prize” and asserted that it was “cheap” that “Gore’s over there” in Norway “lobbying” for the award. He later said: “My lawyers at the Landmark Legal Foundation are looking into the possibility of filing an objection with the Nobel committee over the unethical tampering for this award that Al Gore is engaging in.” In fact, according to a February 22 Associated Press report, Limbaugh’s “nomination” by the Landmark Legal Foundation “appeared to” be “invalid” because the foundation may not have “nomination rights.”
According to a March 29 Reuters article, Mjos attended a March 29 speech by Gore in Oslo, Norway, and afterwards “prais[ed]” Gore for advancing a “very important message” on the threat posed by rising global temperatures. Referring to the report, Limbaugh claimed: “Gore’s over there lobbying. That’s cheap. You’re not supposed to lobby for this thing. You’re supposed to have dignity. You’re supposed to sit back there and let the selection process take its course.” Limbaugh then offered himself as a contrast to Gore: “I’m not over there speaking to these people about anything” and asked: “What in the hell’s global warming have to do with world peace?”
On February 1, Landmark president Mark Levin sent a letter to Mjos purporting to nominate Limbaugh for the Nobel Peace Prize, citing his “nearly two decades of tireless efforts to promote liberty, equality and opportunity for all mankind, regardless of race, creed, economic stratum or national origin.” But according to the Nobel Peace Prize Committee, only certain individuals are “qualified to nominate” people for the award: “members of national assemblies, governments, and international courts of law; university chancellors, professors of social science, history, philosophy, law and theology; leaders of peace research institutes and institutes of foreign affairs; Nobel Peace Prize Laureates of previous years; board members of organizations that have received the Nobel Peace Prize; present and past members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee; and former advisers of the Norwegian Nobel Institute.” Moreover, only those individuals who are specifically invited by the committee may submit candidates. As Levin made clear in his February 1 letter to Mjos, the organization’s nomination of Limbaugh was “unsolicited.”
Meanwhile, Gore was reportedly nominated by two Norwegian lawmakers, who the AP reported are “among the thousands of people and groups with rights to nominate Nobel candidates
wesgpc @ 87
does that make you a fluzy?
didn’t think so.
R.I.P. Rep Jo Ann Davis!!! 8-(
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/055269.php
CTuttle @ 89
RIP
wesgpc @ 84
Clearly, you are still woozy. Otherwise, you’d have described as “the very wild-eyed radical with early-onset rabies liberal economist Paul Krugman”.
Try to get some rest.
man the ramparts pups!!! if it were that easy to mobilize the citizens…………. oh well
katherine Graham Cracker @ 87
Old article, but it’s an old subject. Feel free to add it to the list of URLs if you write to CNN. The more important links still work.
juslin @ 92
my scythe is sharpened. I am at the ready ;)
My brother the police officer was having a big laugh about the idiocy of MSNBC pundick, Joel Rivkin.
Rivkin was stating that “enhanced interrogation techniques” are used by police departments through-out America.
My bro said that the job of a cop is not to see how many felonies they can commit while interrogating someone.
No, they can’t water-board anyone. No, they can’t use sleep deprivation, nor stress positions nor battery about the head and neck.
My bro wants to know why he can’t get some pundit work because there are so many morons who don’t know a thing.
-GSD
wesgpc @ 87
Good excuse! Living in San Diego County myself, I could use little energy because of few extremes in hot/cold. I felt badly for our friends in Northern California that had to turn the heat on, and those in the desert who had to turn the air conditioning on. How it can possibly be that we still don’t know what Cheney’s energy taskforce did is unbelievable to me. Why would energy policy be a secret, and why did/does Dick the Cheney get to declare it so?
GSD @ 97
Isn’t that a sad commentary on the illegality of Shrub’s Maladministration…!!! 8-(
i am not a good leader but i am a great follower lol…anyone ready to take on this cause to retake our country from traitorous usurpers??? my pushbroom is right by my side as we speak….
I’m wondering about the “privileged” as a group that has benefited, apart from the high-income CEO class. Sure, unearned income was taxed less, but shrub’s been unable to deliver on estate tax reform, and now liquidity on assets that generate unearned income will diminish as the bubble implodes.. evidence I’ve seen suggests that few of the non-CEO wealthy bothered to capitalize on the upside of the bubble in any way other than by investing more in the same inflated asset classes. I think the non-high-earning wealthy, who don’t have oil-related assets, may actually turn out to be big losers, before the selective deflation kaboom is all over. And, what’s worse, if the private equity bubble implodes, as many expect that it will, many managed assets will go boom with it. Oil barons aside, they were never really the subject of shrub’s largess anyway. They’re more in Kerry’s constituency.
JPL @ 68
A lot of it won’t.
Cujo359 @ 69
Money is going into speculation, not into productive investment.
Cujo359 @ 93
I just read my concoluding paragraph:
Yep. But sometimes it’s kinda fun.
Loo Hoo. @ 65
In a recession there will be a drop in oil prices, but in the medium term, aye, they’ll do fine.
Congress hasn’t gone after them, because they pay Congress very well.
Ian Welsh @ 102
Aren’t you just the bearer of good news on this day of Thanksgiving…?!!! ;-)
Ian Welsh @ 101
So my long-held theory that our economic troubles are more due to lack of consumer spending than by lack of capital would seem to still be true, even with our government’s (massive) indebtedness?
Cujo359 @ 107
Those consumers can’t afford to consume…!!! 8-(
As an insomniac, I often listen to the BBC radio in the middle of the night. I heard a fascinating interview last night (this morning) with Gary Hamel, visiting professor at London School of Business. His new book, “The Future of Management”, explains well how there is a loss of creativity now – and how the model of management must change. Are there any business types here who have read the book? (Just came out this month.) I am not a business type – but found this whole discussion fascinating – even at 4 in the morning!
CTuttle @ 106
They just need to try harder. ;)
So my long-held theory that our economic troubles are more due to lack of consumer spending than by lack of capital would seem to still be true, even with our government’s (massive) indebtedness?
Lack of consumer spending, what do you base that on??? Consumer have more debt than any time in history.
Consumbers have credit card debt and mortgage debt at all time record levels.
Cujo359 @ 108
I’m not trying anymore
Speaking of middle-class and consumer spendin, I just called my cable company and downgraded our service to standard cable. We weren’t utilizing the movie channels enough to make it worth it and the only other things I’ll be missing are Bill Maher and the other 2 C-Spans.
So, I will miss live commenting the hearings, but I’ll live.
Saving 40 bucks a month.
What’s the private equity bubble?
Mad Dogs @ 7
LMAO! John Cole’s descriptions made my night. I’m serious. There are days when I look at my ceiling and think to myself, “How else can I describe these asswipes without using ‘knuckle draggers’? Now I have lots of adjectives!
Thanks John Cole.
Elliott @ 110
seriously, last week I had to buy a couple birthday presents for girlfriends and I was almost revolted walking around the store looking at all that was laid out to sell. And so little of it needed.
My bro wants to know why he can’t get some pundit work because there are so many morons who don’t know a thing.
Not as easy as it sounds. Is he willing to *dress* like Rivkin, for example?
Sandman @ 109
They certainly do, but I think that apparent contradiction can be explained by two things
1. The real value of the wages most folks take home is lower than it was thirty years ago, and has been mostly getting worse in that time.
2. Much indebtedness is due to medical problems that many countries would have covered.
I don’t know what percentage of the debt is due to the second issue, but it’s a factor. The reason that the first is a big factor ought to be obvious.
Ian Welsh @ 104
“was” I think. Current funds flows are much more conservative, which is helping to create the sense of explosion.
I do find it interesting which sectors are hiring. I stopped by our institution’s student career fair just to see what kind of employers showed up. Weapons manufacturers were the big hit. More of ‘em then you could imagine. They’re were the only ones looking for knowledge workers, software engineers, programmers, engineers etc. War is still booming.
demi @ 111
If you have high-speed Internet service, you can still stream CSPANs 1 thru 3.
Elliott @ 116
Saw a thing on TV from Beverly Hills about 14 year old girls buying $400 purses (tiny ones) because if they didn’t have them, nobody at school would speak to them? Something really sick about that.
Insurance Companies have been winners too. They’ve been given free reign to raise premiums sky high, reduce risk by cutting off customers and cherry picking the best customers. They have also had their claims subsidized by FEMA.
Utility Companies have benefited too with rate hikes, fuel adjustment surcharges and kick backs from State and Federal government on repair costs from disaster damages.
If the Mafia were in charge instead of Bushco, things could hardly be any worse.
I see Cujo, yes medical costs have gone from 1 something trillion to 2 something trillion since Bush took office. I forget the exact numbers and I just read them today.
Twain @ 119
and pathetic.
“So much potential they had,” Future will note about our time…
Loo Hoo. @ 115
Wealthy people often invest directly or through funds in companies, buying stakes that are not packaged as publicly traded securities/shares. The people who manage these “private” funds include leveraged buyout firms, real estate funds and venture capital funds. Some names you may have heard include KKR, Blackstone, Carlyle (!!!!!.. although I suspect they’ll be just fine), CVC, etc etc). A lot of these guys are going to go boom, bigtime… they’ve been putting off marking their assets to market, many of which were highly speculative investments in industries that never should have been leveraged in the first place. The banking group UBS’s recent surprise announcement of massive losses was related to losses relating to the debt and equity investments they have in this sector.
Cujo359 @ 121
Heh, I get it all with the ‘SurfPak’ here in Hawai’i, with Oceanic cable, unlimited phone and highspeed access makes it the best deal in town…!!!
Ian Welsh @ 103
Hi Ian
I’m in total agreement with your last 3 posts and white collar will feel it this time because software now does their job. If your blue collar and have a trade get as close to the ground with your expenses as you can. There is time but not much. It’s not going to be fun as they drive the US in to 3rd world standards instead of pickup the rest of the world to what us to be the standard for the US.
Jo6pac
Also Loo Hoo,
since shrub’s policies made sure that money was flush in the private equity sector (trillions, literally), that surfeit of cash from the wealthy had to get invested, and they were increasingly forced to invest it in worse and worse opportunities… too much money, thanks to shrub, chasing after too few opportunities. So now you have really really bad investments that are leveraged to the hilt. The result: boom. And remember, there’s no real liquidity in these investments.. you can’t just sell out. In 2-4 years, many trust funds will be kaput. And financing for American innovation will be kaput along with ‘em.
That whirling “Refreshing Comments List” means it’s time for time for a new thread…
cujo359
thanks for the link
I included it in the email I sent to Wolf asking if he is embarassed to be connected with CNN’s low standards
hackworth, I would be interested in knowing what state your are talking about, if your willing to share?
Here in Florida, it is open season on policy holders.
Cujo359 @ 121
Yup, that’s what I was thinking. For the really juicy ones. I can’t go cold turkey on Waxman, Leahy, Whitehouse and crew.
And I can pick up the truly snazzy Bill Maher bit on line too!
So, where to spend that extra 40 bucks a month?
Oh, yeah. College boy’s groceries.
Also on private equity
http://www.businessweek.com/bw…..m?chan=top news_top news index_businessweek exclusives
recent aricle… the “cautiously optimistic” bit is fantasy, I suspect
CTuttle @ 127
CT
Aren’t you supposed to be outside, catching, plucking and stuffing that chicken? *g*
Sandman @ 132
Ormond Beach, Florida resident.
Cujo359 @ 108
Consumer spending is to a large extent flowing out of the country and is not producing jobs here.
Cujo359 @ 119
Consumer spending keeps going up, but it’s going up based on debt. The Housing Bubble burst will probably put an end to that, though we’ll see. The credit card companies are amazingly willing to extend debt.
punaise @ 91
Glad to see Punaise is back to puns. Punaise was only posting serious comments for awhile, and it unnerved me. I thought something BIG was in the offing that I didn’t know about.
But back to the black humor of US economic policies: food and energy price cycles will be bound much tighter under current policies than in the past. Wonder how that will effect lower middle working classes and poor? Also wonder if those price cycles will feed more directly into ‘core’ inflation index used to measure general consumer demand side inflationary pressures?
Since you are still reading Ian, there is a TV show called Big Spender, one episode, a woman had 50 credit cards. Ok, she had a spending problem, but what bank on earth thought it would be a good idea to issue 48, 49 and 50th credit cards?
I think huge unanticipated risk shift going on with bursting housing bubble, since workouts are not possible, and where possible, seem to be too complex, or lenders have other cheaper ways of dealing with default becuase of securitization. That seems to me to be a huge change from past, and more bad news for debters.
juslin @ 70
Same in Sacto, CA.
Thanks too, Mr. Welsh for a great read. And I love the comments, particularly the one’s about IP. RIAA beat a woman out of a quarter of a million dollars for downloading and copying music. The IP rights and Copyright’s issues are mounting as technology grows. Professor’s at universities and colleges are now contract hires, and lose their IP rights to a HUGE extent. Sad.
Ian Welsh @ 55
Hi Ian,
I’m an old techie. Where would you recommend going if I wanted to go somewhere else to do programming/tech work, though even more so, analysis and trouble shooting? It’s getting harder and harder to get hired here, though people often wonder how they got by without me before. I’ve hit that age where I’m not making what I made in 1990, much less in 2000.
It’s all buzz-word and checkbox now. No one seems to be interested in if you can think and learn, only if you have the appropriate boxes checked. Doesn’t bode well for the future, mine or the countries!
Eric Gen @ 143
I’m afraid I have little useful advice Eric. I know that there’s a huge problem for techies when they reach a certain age (seems like 40 or 50 at the latest). I heard the same issues back in the 90’s – companies were starved for techies, but still wouldn’t hire the oldsters.
Depending on your skill set, and your sales ability, a consultancy is possible.
If you have time on your hands right now, I’d suggest getting involved in some open-source work. If you do good work on that, I understand it makes you look very good, and can lead to a job (sometimes even a job doing open-source.)
But ultimately, older programmers/analysts don’t seem to get much respect.
I agree about the check box BS. I recall back when I used to program people would be “do you have X years in Y”? And I’d be “whatever. I can pick up any language in two weeks. Programming is just algorithims, and all languages have to do the same damn things, it’s just a question of learning how they do it. If I can pseudocode it, I can program it.”
But this leads back to sclerosis in hiring. People don’t want to take any chances, because if a guy with the boxes checked suck, well, they can’t be blamed. But if they hire someone without the boxes, they can be.
Eric Gen @ 143
Ran this past my friend the ex-tech recruiter, and here’s her thoughts:
Ian Welsh @ 145
Thanks Ian!!! I really appreciate it!
1) I used to have a very good recruiter friend. Unfortunately, even being very established down here (Austin), he went under in the early 00’s after the bust. I spent most of my ‘career’ as a hired gun contractor/consultant, but even most of those jobs have gone checkbox. I’d love to reestablish this sort of contact, but haven’t had too much luck at it of late.
2) I’ve considered Canada, and looked a few times. BC seems to be where most of the action is, but I don’t know how much of that is because it’s near Seattle. What are your thoughts about that? Also, what are the other tech hotspots in Canada?
3) I’ve also considered the open source movement. I’d have to check if I’m actually allowed to do that with my current employer, a giant, multi-national heartless consulting corporation. Their intellectual property policy is pretty much that, if you blow your nose, they own everything on the Kleenex. They’re more than happy to use open source code, maybe they actually give something back somewhere, I haven’t seen it. I’ll have to check.
And, in response to your first response, I’m actually OK at sales, or sales support, with the caveat that I have to believe in the product or service. A lot of companies pay lip-service to this concept, but they don’t really seem to mean it. I find myself in a predicament at times, because I have to believe something is true to tell people that it’s true. It doesn’t mean that what I tell them is actually true, though that’s the intent (seems like your morality post questioned if intent was important), but I have to at least believe that it’s true. I’ll also usually tell them if I find out that it isn’t or is no longer true. I don’t actually find that this limits my ability to sell, but it seems to severely limit many companies desires to have me sell for them.
Thanks again for the responses!!!
Eric Gen @ 146
I’m not sure where the tech hotspots are anymore, honestly. There used to be one around Ottawa but it got pretty gutted. Lower Mainland has one. I know Alberta is trying, but I’m not sure how well it’s doing. Greater Toronto probably has a fair number. Montreal might be worth checking into as well (many run in English, though if you’re going to live there you really need to learn french. But it’s cheap, and the food is amazing.)
Cujo359 @ 108
I think Ian is referring to spending that increases the productive capacity of the economy, not spending that increases consumption of goods already out of the production line. Rising credit card indebtedness suggests consumption spending has not slacked off as much as disposable incomes and inflation rate suggest it should,.
Ian Welsh @ 147
Bonjour Ian!
Je parle un peu de Français. I had the good fortune to get to go to Paris 9 years in a row, so I started trying to learn the language. Haven’t been able to afford to go since 2002. Between the economy and the cost of gas, I don’t drive across town unless I have a specific and worthwhile reason to go.
I love French food! I’ll do some checking into Montreal. With global warming maybe I’d survive, since I tend to deal with triple-digit temperatures better than I cope with single-digits. :)
Merci beaucoup!
Ian Welsh @ 55
Leading the world in the development of energy tech and lowering the cost of “per capita” energy use in America in not a priority. Instead “we are the cash cows” of the energy purveyors, whose sinterest and profits are more important than the evolution of America. We are a means to and end, their profit, and we pave the way for the continued profits of these corporations, in Iraq.
Ask yourself the question why????????
James Joyce @ 150
Would you “walk” a mile for a Camel Cigarette today? That is if you can breath? How about getting a “black eye” for a Tarrington Cancer Stick!!! Or, “I’m hung like a porno star see, I’m a Marlbor Man. Wait until the most manly of man’s parts begin to fall off!!! *iagra anyone.
The instillment of needs, and brainwashed minds……..
We need to reframe the issue of this and future presidential campaigns to say that whoever makes the most money is NOT the best candidate. That is how we need to judge the contenders so that we get a man/woman of the people by the people and for the people!
Same should go for the House and Senate!
You could toss about 95% of the “charmers” in DC and pull anyone off the street and they would do a better job.
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Interesting what people have been saying about the US lagging in technology.
I have noticed that telecommunications is more expensive than in Australia where I have been living for some time. For example, one can purchase a phone card that allows one to call the US for the equivalent of about a quarter of a cent per minute. The cheapest phone cards I have found in the US, allow one to call Australia for about five times that rate. the Internet is more expensive, my sister in NYC pays something like $70 a months for basic broadband. I have access to broadband that is faster and about one third the cost. Are these rates roughly the same in other parts of the US ?
MHD @ 153
I can’t speak to the phone prices, but we’re paying about $47 a month for 5.5 Mb broadband here in Central Texas. I’ve heard of some lower priced/lower speed DSL offerings for around $30. These are just broadband prices. If cable TV were bundled in there, the prices would be quite a bit higher.