PW!

Such a photo on a beautiful Saturday evening, PW?

They are Bush’s kinda folks: bullies, thugs, and sociopaths. He probably longed to be out there beating up the Gold Star Dad with them.

and may they all rot.

So PW did any of these Gathering of Eagles go to jail for this.

jayt @ 4

and may they all rot.

Sheer Fuckery…!!!

OMG, this is so sick and un-American.

If I recall, no charges were pressed. And some fascist blogs suggested that the man had assaulted the nutter who took his son’s photo to ‘protect’ it (as I remember the post).

Hi PW and all.

Here is the Mission Statement of the Gathering of Eagles.

I met Arredondo at a protest I attended this past summer in Kennebunkport, Maine against Bush/Putin. He and his wife (she’s step-Mom to Alex) are both still distraught, but it is he whose whole presense gives off tons of grief. It’s truly sad. I’ll link to the post I did that included pictures of his truck that is completely dedicated to his son’s memory.

Loo Hoo. @ 9

Here is the Mission Statement of the Gathering of Eagles.

Ick.

. We vehemently oppose the notion that it is possible to “support the troops but not the war.” We are opposed to those groups who would claim support for the troops yet engage in behavior that is demeaning and abusive to the men and women who wear our nation’s uniform.

Dig it.

Sounds like a military recruiters dream go join the Army to protect democracy in Iraq and then your Dad gets beaten for exercising his right to protest that war.
Fight for democracy in America first! No more stolen elections! No more Democratic Presidential Candidates who roll over for Bushies when elections are stolen!

Here’s the picture of the Arredondo’s truck that is dedicated to their son Alex’s memory (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/…..tin-today/

Reading the comments at the link at the bottom of the post and their Mission Statement (comment #9) gave me the willies. These people are dangerous.

In the picture Shrub is starting to look like a pasty old man. Ya see George…..maybe God really will get even with you.

So how can we get the Police to arrest these guys?

More:

9. We will accept nothing less than total, unqualified victory in the current conflict. Surrender is not an option, nor is defeat.

Things Come Undone @ 17

So how can we get the Police to arrest these guys?

pixie dust?

They always make me proud to be a Vietnam Vet :(

This will do wonders for the GOP with Hispanic voters particularily those with family in the military who could see themselves in this postion if we keep demanding justice on this issue.

Things Come Undone @ 17

So how can we get the Police to arrest these guys?

Make them wear pink.

KayInMaine @ 14

Here’s the picture of the Arredondo’s truck that is dedicated to their son Alex’s memory (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/…..tin-today/

Great pictures, thanks!

Does anybody know if the Gathering of Eagles is getting money from GOP moneymen? Can we link this money to Bush?

newtonusr @ 22

Things Come Undone @ 17

So how can we get the Police to arrest these guys?

Make them wear pink.

If they get arrested in Maricopa Cty, AZ. they will…!!! ;-)

TeddySanFran @ 3

They are Bush’s kinda folks: bullies, thugs, and sociopaths. He probably longed to be out there beating up the Gold Star Dad with them.

Yeah, but then he might get blood on his shoes. Must save that for his hands.

KayInMaine @ 14

Here’s the picture of the Arredondo’s truck that is dedicated to their son Alex’s memory (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/…..tin-today/

I met Arredondo in DC in ‘05. He handed us letters from his son and from the Pentagon. He is a tortured soul.

As to the animals who ganged up on Mr. Arrendondo: Me and some cousins here would like to invite you characters to come down here to try that tactic with us. Oh… and bring your ‘Nam evading hero with you. We love a good bounce.

newtonusr @ 22

Things Come Undone @ 17

So how can we get the Police to arrest these guys?

Make them wear pink.

Or carry a copy of Palast’s Armed Madhouse.

5. We believe in and would give our lives for the precious freedoms found in our Constitution.

“Course we know whut’s in the Constitooshun. It says we get to have guns!”

Things Come Undone @ 24

Does anybody know if the Gathering of Eagles

These days I think one can safely assume that any wingnut organization worth its wingnuttyness is getting underwritten by GOP moneymen

newtonusr @ 22

Things Come Undone @ 17

So how can we get the Police to arrest these guys?

Make them wear pink.

I have a good buddy who is a Purple Heart, Khe Sahn Marine Vet who rides his bike (motorcyle) up to Walter Reed and stands with Code Pink. It drives those ass holes crazy!

Re that photo: Thugs of a Feather…

Sorry Mr. Arredondo. For the typo.

demi @ 26

TeddySanFran @ 3

They are Bush’s kinda folks: bullies, thugs, and sociopaths. He probably longed to be out there beating up the Gold Star Dad with them.

Yeah, but then he might get blood on his shoes. Must save that for his hands.

He will NEVER be able to scrub all this blood from his hands.

Lindy @ 33

Re that photo: Thugs of a Feather…

butt-ugly inside and out.

newtonusr @ 27

KayInMaine @ 14

Here’s the picture of the Arredondo’s truck that is dedicated to their son Alex’s memory (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/…..tin-today/

I met Arredondo in DC in ‘05. He handed us letters from his son and from the Pentagon. He is a tortured soul.

He sure is. My heart is aching right now, because Arredondo is so wrought with pain that he will literally hug anyone for as long as they want to be hugged. Swear! He is such a gentle man, has a gentle voice, and is a gentle soul. He truly is and knowing that these freaking assholes ripped a picture of his son off his truck by the Gathering of Eagles, it’s so sick!

Gawd I hate the reich wingers of our nation. The Gathering of Eagles is a representation of what is wrong with our society. They are very Orwellian in nature. War is peace to them. The fact that Michelle Malkin is a supporter is not surprising. She’s a Pig too.

The GOE shit heads will tell you how the Wall is sacred ground, no place for a protest. IN the next breath they’ll tell you how the “turned their back on Kerry” when he was a speaker at the 10th Anniversary. That’s not political.

Alternative names for Gathering of Eagles:

Gathering of Bird Brains

A Flock of Seagulls

Sweeping Up Bird Droppings

Chicken F*ckers

Loo Hoo. @ 23

KayInMaine @ 14

Here’s the picture of the Arredondo’s truck that is dedicated to their son Alex’s memory (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/…..tin-today/

Great pictures, thanks!

Thanks. It was a fun day. ;-)

Loo Hoo. @ 9

Here is the Mission Statement of the Gathering of Eagles.

Egads! A bunch of little boys that never grew up and only think they read the Constitution. Read a few of the comments under their proclamations. Boy are they attracting the lunatic fringe. If they’re not careful, they could end up with more criminal elements….it would serve them right.

Ellie
Now, that’s a scene from the to-be-written tragedy of King George.
Out, out, damn spot!

When will I wake up from this Crazy Dream?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPu5FHqGUXs

Dear heavens. Here is a YouTube of these cretins.

Lahoma says after reading this: “you’re off the leash, go get ‘em kiddo.” Chris Hill, I’m calling you out, punk.

Laura Doty @ 8

If I recall, no charges were pressed. And some fascist blogs suggested that the man had assaulted the nutter who took his son’s photo to ‘protect’ it (as I remember the post).

Yeah, it was sad reading, and would have been funny had not Mr. Arredondo been injured. The whacko took the pictue, because he felt a duty to grab it and take it away from the peacenik father because he just knew the son was sitting on a cloud somewhere objecting to the proceedings. I guess the thief and vandal (woops, I guess he forgot to read his mission statement about that and about freedom of speech) was going to take the photo home and put it in a shrine where he does his pushups. And how about Chris’s hair? There’s one case where a crew cut would be an improvement.

Things Come Undone @ 17

So how can we get the Police to arrest these guys?

If the abuse meets hate crime criteria couldn’t the State or Federal authorities file charges?

newtonusr @ 27

KayInMaine @ 14

Here’s the picture of the Arredondo’s truck that is dedicated to their son Alex’s memory (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/…..tin-today/

I met Arredondo in DC in ‘05. He handed us letters from his son and from the Pentagon. He is a tortured soul.

I can only imagine if it would be my son. It would be the ruin of my entire life.

Evening all.
IANAL, but does Mr Arredondo have grounds for a civil case against the Eagles…and thus their finacing source?

Here’s a Youtube video of Michelle Malkin using her sexuality to rally the bird brained knuckle draggers to go after the liberals at the March on the Pentagon from March of this year:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=T-mc62gx6_k

Sick.

Loo Hoo. @ 44

Dear heavens. Here is a YouTube of these cretins.

More proof (like we needed any more) that they are 100% packaging.

ah, the new sturmabteillung.

KayInMaine @ 50

Here’s a Youtube video of Michelle Malkin using her sexuality to rally the bird brained knuckle draggers to go after the liberals at the March on the Pentagon from March of this year:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=T-mc62gx6_k

Sick.

Like she just came from the Boom Boom factory at Ahn Khe!

Anyone think Fascism hasn’t arrived in this country?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 53

Anyone think Fascism hasn’t arrived in this country?

These fuckers didn’t just arrive anywhere.

RonD @ 49

Evening all.
IANAL, but does Mr Arredondo have grounds for a civil case against the Eagles…and thus their finacing source?

Yes! Bankrupt the GOP moneymen bankrolling hate groups.
I wonder if the same could be applied to Iraqi families and Blackwater?

Loo Hoo. @ 2

Such a photo on a beautiful Saturday evening, PW?

A-yep. ;-p

newtonusr @ 27

KayInMaine @ 14

Here’s the picture of the Arredondo’s truck that is dedicated to their son Alex’s memory (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/…..tin-today/

I met Arredondo in DC in ‘05. He handed us letters from his son and from the Pentagon. He is a tortured soul.

I took a look at those pictures – there is a lot going on there besides the loss of his son. Not that that isn’t enough.

Somebody should tell ‘em that the bald eagle is a scavenger.. so their gathering would basically be to pick at some bones

raven @ 52

KayInMaine @ 50

Here’s a Youtube video of Michelle Malkin using her sexuality to rally the bird brained knuckle draggers to go after the liberals at the March on the Pentagon from March of this year:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=T-mc62gx6_k

Sick.

Like she just came from the Boom Boom factory at Ahn Khe!

LMAO! I’m surprised she was even clothed in the video! Flinging her hair and leaning over this way and that way is all the knuckle draggers need to start drooling down their necks and saying, “Kill dah libruls! Kill dah libruls!”. Jees. Again, they represent what is WRONG with our society for ages now.

Off Topic, but a neat “Select a Candidate” quiz over at Group News Blog
the candidates best for me are Kucinich and Dodd. I’ve been for Dodd for a while, now.

RonD @ 49

Evening all.
IANAL, but does Mr Arredondo have grounds for a civil case against the Eagles…and thus their finacing source?

Now that’s a thought!

egregious @ 48

newtonusr @ 27

I met Arredondo in DC in ‘05. He handed us letters from his son and from the Pentagon. He is a tortured soul.

I can only imagine if it would be my son. It would be the ruin of my entire life.

the death of my sister was the death of my mother.

KayInMaine @ 50

Here’s a Youtube video of Michelle Malkin using her sexuality to rally the bird brained knuckle draggers to go after the liberals at the March on the Pentagon from March of this year:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=T-mc62gx6_k

Sick.

Oh. My. Gawd.

TRex! GET OVER HERE!

Oklahoma kiddo @ 53

Anyone think Fascism hasn’t arrived in this country?

It has been here a “long, long time…’a comin’…brings on a song…I want to puke quite frankly….and I am perpetually pissed off about it.

Elliott @ 62

egregious @ 48

I can only imagine if it would be my son. It would be the ruin of my entire life.

the death of my sister was the death of my mother.

To lose a child…unthinkable. How many families in Iraq face this unspeakable truth, this unbearable future, because of the hubris of our government?

(((((Elliott)))))

Elliott @ 62

egregious @ 48

I can only imagine if it would be my son. It would be the ruin of my entire life.

the death of my sister was the death of my mother.

This may not be too popular but I would guess that more than one of the GOE people are tortured by the loss of someone as well.

Fern @ 57

newtonusr @ 27

I met Arredondo in DC in ‘05. He handed us letters from his son and from the Pentagon. He is a tortured soul.

I took a look at those pictures – there is a lot going on there besides the loss of his son. Not that that isn’t enough.

Fern – He is partly remembered for this:

After some time went by and the Marines refused to leave, according to news reports, Arredondo was so distraught, that he climbed in their van and splashed himself with gasoline. A propane torch he’d brought inside was lit, Arredondo says accidentally.

Yo Eagles… want to rumble with real cowboys and cowgirls? Come on down!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DriZQbmft4

Kathryn in MA @ 61

Off Topic, but a neat “Select a Candidate” quiz over at Group News Blog
the candidates best for me are Kucinich and Dodd. I’ve been for Dodd for a while, now.

I got Hillary :(

I also had a son die (not in Iraq). If some mfing asswipe tried that with me, I’d ‘ve put his eyeballs in his asshole! The dems (small “d’ intentional) are pathetic pukes. Maybe it’s time for vigilante law. (At least the wingnuts understand that term. Anything else we say here is 3-fold above their collective IQ.)

raven @ 66

Elliott @ 62

the death of my sister was the death of my mother.

This may not be too popular but I would guess that more than one of the GOE people are tortured by the loss of someone as well.

That’s a fair point, Raven. I suspect, though, that many GOE’s are being exploited (may not be a popular thought here as well).

egregious @ 65

Elliott @ 62

the death of my sister was the death of my mother.

To lose a child…unthinkable. How many families in Iraq face this unspeakable truth, this unbearable future, because of the hubris of our government?

(((((Elliott)))))

It’s why I despise this war beyond measure and why I despise those who started it. Every single family devastated, not just the families of the soldiers who were killed but those who are changed forever, physically or mentally. And how that tragedy travels down through the survivors.

raven @ 66

Elliott @ 62

the death of my sister was the death of my mother.

This may not be too popular but I would guess that more than one of the GOE people are tortured by the loss of someone as well.

I know ` “

raven @ 67

Elliott @ 62

the death of my sister was the death of my mother.

This may not be too popular but I would guess that more than one of the GOE people are tortured by the loss of someone as well.

I think you are right. People crave meaning – and some of these folks might be trying to create meaning in the death of their loved ones by silencing all doubts about the cause in which they died – or to justify the things they themselves did in that war.

That video looked, though, like a bunch of old guys sending a bunch of young guys out to suffer and die. And the women… words fail.

I’m tempted to join their discussion group and teach them a thing or two. I used to like to go on right wing discussion groups from time to time and mess with their heads. Sometimes as soon as they sniffed out that I was being critical — no matter how civil I was — I’d get banned, though. I was banned from Free Republic three times, using different e-mails.

http://gatheringofeagles.org/forum

sonate @ 70

I also had a son die (not in Iraq). If some mfing asswipe tried that with me, I’d ‘ve put his eyeballs in his asshole! The dems (small “d’ intentional) are pathetic pukes. Maybe it’s time for vigalante law. (At least the wingnuts understand that term. Anything else we say here is 3-fold above their collective IQ.)

((((((sonate!))))

newtonusr @ 71

raven @ 66

This may not be too popular but I would guess that more than one of the GOE people are tortured by the loss of someone as well.

That’s a fair point, Raven. I suspect, though, that many GOE’s are being exploited (may not be a popular thought here as well).

No argument from me. Plenty of ghosts to go around and we all deal with it differently.

Loo Hoo,
If you’re here, I’m sending a big hug.
S’gotta be tough.

That video looked, though, like a bunch of old guys sending a bunch of young guys out to suffer and die. And the women… words fail.

We are old now.

(((Elliot.))) So sorry about your mom and sis.

egregious @ 65

Elliott @ 62

the death of my sister was the death of my mother.

To lose a child…unthinkable. How many families in Iraq face this unspeakable truth, this unbearable future, because of the hubris of our government?

(((((Elliott)))))

There does not exist a word to describe it. No such word. Invent one if you will, but that would be an excuse, a lie, an invention of the mind. There exists no such word to describe the experience of the loss of one’s child. Period. No such word is worthy of utterance. JMHO

newtonusr @ 68

Fern @ 57

I took a look at those pictures – there is a lot going on there besides the loss of his son. Not that that isn’t enough.

Fern – He is partly remembered for this:

After some time went by and the Marines refused to leave, according to news reports, Arredondo was so distraught, that he climbed in their van and splashed himself with gasoline. A propane torch he’d brought inside was lit, Arredondo says accidentally.

Oh my…

Moon @ 16

In the picture Shrub is starting to look like a pasty old man. Ya see George…..maybe God really will get even with you.

I rather think that we need to take steps. Perhaps a trip to the Hague would be in order.

Condi, Cheney, Rummy, Addington, ‘Scooter’ they can all ride on the same bus.

Blub @ 70

Kathryn in MA @ 61

Off Topic, but a neat “Select a Candidate” quiz over at Group News Blog
the candidates best for me are Kucinich and Dodd. I’ve been for Dodd for a while, now.

I got Hillary :(

Once again, Dennis is my man…!!! Edwards moved up, tho…!!! *g*

raven @ 80

That video looked, though, like a bunch of old guys sending a bunch of young guys out to suffer and die. And the women… words fail.

We are old now.

Indeed we are.

A local kid was killed in Iraq three weeks ago. His father wrote Bush a letter asking him not to leave Iraq until “the mission was complete” because his son believed in it and he doesn’t want him to have died in vain.

So Bush feels free to meet with the leader of a group that brags about beating up a Gold Star Dad? Without any political consequences in the media?
That is a perfect example of why we need to break up the big media companies Right Wing Corporate control of the media is not in the public interest!
Plus their newscoverage is boring. Righty approved news has been killing the MSM stock price over the last few years Fox, Time, NY Times etc despite having troops fighting in two countries.
Righty approved news is boring. Which is amazing, if you can’t sell papers during a war then your doing something really wrong, like filtering the news perhaps?
All in all there are no victories to report and the media excuses er spin for that fact are getting old so people are tuning out the MSM and tuning in the Lefty Blogs to get turned on and become active informed voters!

thank you.

Just think about all the lives wasted on BushCo’s enterprise. Not just here, but all those souls in Iraq. And they lose even more than everything.

I don’t see how anyone could ever choose war, choose to kill, rather than find a smarter way, a bloodless way.

It didn’t have to be like this.

Phoenix Woman @ 64

KayInMaine @ 50

Here’s a Youtube video of Michelle Malkin using her sexuality to rally the bird brained knuckle draggers to go after the liberals at the March on the Pentagon from March of this year:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=T-mc62gx6_k

Sick.

Oh. My. Gawd.

TRex! GET OVER HERE!

Disgusting, huh? TRex get over here! Now! LOL

hackworth @ 39

Alternative names for Gathering of Eagles:

Gathering of Bird Brains

A Flock of Seagulls

Sweeping Up Bird Droppings

Chicken F*ckers

a blithering of weasels?

I would guess that more than one of the GOE people are tortured by the loss of someone as well.

Yes. And their ability to express their opinions and grieve in dignity is being respected, which respect they return by assaulting this man, this father, making a statement, exercising the very rights they claim to respect. The GOE, by this violation, has, IMO, made null any claim they may have to dignified or respectful treatment.

Blub @ 70

Kathryn in MA @ 61

Off Topic, but a neat “Select a Candidate” quiz over at Group News Blog
the candidates best for me are Kucinich and Dodd. I’ve been for Dodd for a while, now.

I got Hillary :(

I got Kuchinich for the second time in one of these polls. Why can’t I learn to love him?

I’m with OK Kiddo,

These brownshirts need to be scrapped with. The fact that these warmongering cowards exist makes my blood boil.

dov12348 @ 75

I’m tempted to join their discussion group and teach them a thing or two. I used to like to go on right wing discussion groups from time to time and mess with their heads. Sometimes as soon as they sniffed out that I was being critical — no matter how civil I was — I’d get banned, though. I was banned from Free Republic three times, using different e-mails.

http://gatheringofeagles.org/forum

Disent can’t be tolerated because OMG they might learn something! These are the same guys who gave Socrates the Hemlock!

CTuttle @ 85

Blub @ 70

I got Hillary :(

Once again, Dennis is my man…!!! Edwards moved up, tho…!!! *g*

I got Dennis with a 70 followed by Dodd with a 63. I didn’t agree with any of the immigration answers. Evidently, my answer was not the same as Kucinich’s. I chose the least obnoxious answer. Surprised that Brownback (whom I believe to be an incredible *sshole from hell) scored higher than McCain (whom I think is slightly less of an *sshole).

Interesting how many f*ckers want to divest social security to Wall Street. That would be a spike through its heart. Biden.

Loo Hoo. @ 93

I got Kuchinich for the second time in one of these polls. Why can’t I learn to love him?

apart from the war, I generally agree with Hillary’s stated positions. My problem is that I have trust issues with her :P

demi @ 79

Loo Hoo,
If you’re here, I’m sending a big hug.
S’gotta be tough.

Big hug back! Looking forward to Friday night…

Jay @ 94

I’m with OK Kiddo,

These brownshirts need to be scrapped with. The fact that these warmongering cowards exist makes my blood boil.

Right behind you.

As a long suffering Bosox fan, since rehabbed, I would like to extend my condolences to all Cubbie fans out there, your drought is extended again…!!!

Loo Hoo. @ 18

More:

9. We will accept nothing less than total, unqualified victory in the current conflict. Surrender is not an option, nor is defeat.

I’ve heard these statements before. The speakers chose cyanide rather than execution, or falling into the hands of the “Soviet Army.”

A.Citizen @ 84

Moon @ 16

In the picture Shrub is starting to look like a pasty old man. Ya see George…..maybe God really will get even with you.

I rather think that we need to take steps. Perhaps a trip to the Hague would be in order.

Condi, Cheney, Rummy, Addington, ‘Scooter’ they can all ride on the same bus.

Some brave souls took these steps. The pro-war protesters were way outnumbered. We need a lot more of THIS!

Can’t tell how many of us here have had relatives in Iraq. My son-in-law was part of the “invasion” force. They let him out sooner than others (after about 6 months). Many of his friends who went there with him have gone back again (but not my son-in-law…yet). I have talked to his friends personally — before and after. (Anecdotal evidence, but) they say that the situation is much worse now because the people of Iraq are not supportative. It is (my characterization) now a Viet Nam because our soldiers no longer know who the enemy is. They “shoot first and ask questions later.”

George W. Bush is a chickenshit, fuckhead, hobby-horse riding drug-store cowboy piece of shit thug.

sonate @ 71

I also had a son die (not in Iraq). If some mfing asswipe tried that with me, I’d ‘ve put his eyeballs in his asshole! The dems (small “d’ intentional) are pathetic pukes. Maybe it’s time for vigilante law. (At least the wingnuts understand that term. Anything else we say here is 3-fold above their collective IQ.)

(((((((sonate)))))))

Hi friends, just popping in for my 5-10 allowed minutes of reading (had eye surgery Thursday for a detached retina–can’t recommend it). The one thing I can do is watch videos, saw “Red State” by Michael Shea– he traveled from Ca to Red States to try to gain some understanding of where they were coming from and try to find common ground. He couldn’t. It is a good documentary, he talks to a cross section of folks, but they essentially want “the ten commandments to replace the Bill of Rights”.

I agree that the GOE folks may have lost loved ones, but that doesn’t justify hate or violence. They seem to be searching for hate, much like the vigilantes on the mexican border who are just rentacops wanting to pick a fight.

Have to go back to blindness, great to see you , miss you,

namaste

Some police officers got hurt breaking up the Gathering of Eagles beating of Carlos, now correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t hitting a Cop ussally a one way express ticket to jail?
Bush certainly has a lot of respect for Police when he meets the head of the Gathering of Eagles after no charges at were filed!

http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..more-21571

Best of recoveries to you zennurse.

hackworth @ 95

CTuttle @ 85

Once again, Dennis is my man…!!! Edwards moved up, tho…!!! *g*

I got Dennis with a 70 followed by Dodd with a 63. I didn’t agree with any of the immigration answers. Evidently, my answer was not the same as Kucinich’s. I chose the least obnoxious answer. Surprised that Brownback (whom I believe to be an incredible *sshole from hell) scored higher than McCain (whom I think is slightly less of an *sshole).

Interesting how many f*ckers want to divest social security to Wall Street. That would be a spike through its heart. Biden.

I got Kucinich, too. Seems like most every pup ended up with Kucinich on top.

Elliott @ 73

egregious @ 65

To lose a child…unthinkable. How many families in Iraq face this unspeakable truth, this unbearable future, because of the hubris of our government?

(((((Elliott)))))

It’s why I despise this war beyond measure and why I despise those who started it. Every single family devastated, not just the families of the soldiers who were killed but those who are changed forever, physically or mentally. And how that tragedy travels down through the survivors.

I used to visit our 93 year old retired pastor in the nursing home who had lost his brother in WWII. He was still grieving.

We have set in motion grief that will last for decades. And for what. God help us.

Hey zennurse, good to see you!

Blub @ 97

Loo Hoo. @ 93

I got Kuchinich for the second time in one of these polls. Why can’t I learn to love him?

apart from the war, I generally agree with Hillary’s stated positions. My problem is that I have trust issues with her :P

I’m wondering what kind of answers one would have to be a Hillary supporter?

We have family serving in the Air Force and Army, here and in Iraq. We want our kids home from Prez Coward’s war. Now!

Loo Hoo. @ 18

We will accept nothing less than total, unqualified victory in the current conflict. Surrender is not an option, nor is defeat.

-Gathering of Eagles Mission Statment

You can show your troops only that way which leads to victory or death.

-statement of Adolf Hitler to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, when refusing him permission to withdraw.

I report. You decide.

Elliott @ 109

hackworth @ 95

I got Dennis with a 70 followed by Dodd with a 63. I didn’t agree with any of the immigration answers. Evidently, my answer was not the same as Kucinich’s. I chose the least obnoxious answer. Surprised that Brownback (whom I believe to be an incredible *sshole from hell) scored higher than McCain (whom I think is slightly less of an *sshole).

Interesting how many f*ckers want to divest social security to Wall Street. That would be a spike through its heart. Biden.

I got Kucinich, too. Seems like most every pup ended up with Kucinich on top.

Fancy, that!!! I knew there was a reason…!!! *g*

I saw Mr and Mrs Arredondo in DC, Sept 15.
Here are some pictures.

as a participant at that march on 9/15 – as we marched to the capitol that nasty group tried to goad us into a confrontation but no one fed into it – probably really angered them….

We miss you too, Zen!!! I wish ya a speedy recovery…!!! 8-)

Loo Hoo. @ 112

I’m wondering what kind of answers one would have to be a Hillary supporter?

I think it’s in the survey tool’s relative weighting. I might’ve answered the same way but prioritized things differently.

Kathryn in MA @ 115

I saw Mr and Mrs Arredondo in DC, Sept 15.
Here are some pictures.

That’s a great record, Kathryn! Thank you!

Politicians who say elect me; I want to end the war. But I want to end the war in such a fashion as it does not harm the troops. What does that mean?

When I went down to DC in March for the March on the Pentagon, I rode with a Vietnam Vet here in Maine who had been shot 3 times. He told me when he was shot the first time and when the Army notified his parents what had happened, his mother tried to kill herself. She shot herself, but lived. Sad, huh? Can you imagine if Jack had actually been killed in Vietnam? She would have gone insane, I’m sure. Arredondo is suffering this as is many parents of soldiers. Oh, but George Bush isn’t suffering. Oh no. He hangs out with “yes people” and has no idea how ugly he’s made our nation’s (and the Iraqis!) soul.

may @ 91

hackworth @ 39

Alternative names for Gathering of Eagles:

Gathering of Bird Brains

A Flock of Seagulls

Sweeping Up Bird Droppings

Chicken F*ckers

a blithering of weasels?

Smattering of Egoes?

KayInMaine @ 121

When I went down to DC in March for the March on the Pentagon, I rode with a Vietnam Vet here in Maine who had been shot 3 times. He told me when he was shot the first time and when the Army notified his parents what had happened, his mother tried to kill herself. She shot herself, but lived. Sad, huh? Can you imagine if Jack had actually been killed in Vietnam? She would have gone insane, I’m sure. Arredondo is suffering this as is many parents of soldiers. Oh, but George Bush isn’t suffering. Oh no. He hangs out with “yes people” and has no idea how ugly he’s made our nation’s (and the Iraqis!) soul.

And George Bush doesn’t have any trouble sleeping at night.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 121

Politicians who say elect me; I want to end the war. But I want to end the war in such a fashion as it does not harm the troops. What does that mean?

Get them out of harm’s way! As expediently as possible, screw the equipment…!!!

Elliott @ 124

And George Bush doesn’t have any trouble sleeping at night.

psychopathy does have its benefits, I guess.

Blub @ 126

Elliott @ 124

And George Bush doesn’t have any trouble sleeping at night.

psychopathy does have its benefits, I guess.

I’d chalk it up to having no conscience…!!! ;-)

egregious @ 110

Elliott @ 73

It’s why I despise this war beyond measure and why I despise those who started it. Every single family devastated, not just the families of the soldiers who were killed but those who are changed forever, physically or mentally. And how that tragedy travels down through the survivors.

I used to visit our 93 year old retired pastor in the nursing home who had lost his brother in WWII. He was still grieving.

We have set in motion grief that will last for decades. And for what. God help us.

Bush, Cheny and a couple hundred people like them are getting rich beyond their wildest dreams. That’s for what. Too bad the vote was close enough to steal twice. Shame on anyone that voted Republican.

I know two mothers who have kids in the military. One of them has turned democratic real quick. The other has softened her point of view considerably. (Two years ago she pointed out that she was reading a book that [I] wouldn’t like – Ann Coulter’s How To Talk To A Liberal If You Must).
She’s much more introspective now.

James Joyce @ 101

Loo Hoo. @ 18

More:

9. We will accept nothing less than total, unqualified victory in the current conflict. Surrender is not an option, nor is defeat.

I’ve heard these statements before. The speakers chose cyanide rather than execution, or falling into the hands of the “Soviet Army.”

Geez. Has anyone done a comparison of the language used now and then. As LS says, Homeland is a revolting term.

bluejeansntshirt @ 102

A.Citizen @ 84

I rather think that we need to take steps. Perhaps a trip to the Hague would be in order.

Condi, Cheney, Rummy, Addington, ‘Scooter’ they can all ride on the same bus.

Some brave souls took these steps. The pro-war protesters were way outnumbered. We need a lot more of THIS!

Great pictures! Thanks so much for sharing them. I love this sign: http://bp0.blogger.com/_ghKS4c…..G_0777.JPG

It pretty much sums it up. ;-)

Oops, My fowl friend, that’s stuffed and basted is about ready to sit for a spell…!!!

newtonusr @ 72

raven @ 66

This may not be too popular but I would guess that more than one of the GOE people are tortured by the loss of someone as well.

That’s a fair point, Raven. I suspect, though, that many GOE’s are being exploited (may not be a popular thought here as well).

I think you are right. We need to find common ground with the GOE’s who are being exploited because of their love of country or their terrible loss of a child. These people should be on our side, working to stop the carnage.

This is one reason I continue to support Webb, I think he can bridge this gap between the progressive left and the patriotic right. We do have common ground. Dear God I hope we find it before it is too late.

Gathering of Eagles

Federalist Society

Mission Statement: White guys like us, you’re OK. Everybody else, STFU

We need to make the beliefs of these people so shameful that they never crawl out again.

That picture at the top is disturbing.

lahoma

RonD @ 114

Loo Hoo. @ 18

We will accept nothing less than total, unqualified victory in the current conflict. Surrender is not an option, nor is defeat.

-Gathering of Eagles Mission Statment

You can show your troops only that way which leads to victory or death.

-statement of Adolf Hitler to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, when refusing him permission to withdraw.

I report. You decide.

How can we ever have a victory if Bush won’t show the Troops to Pakistan and Ossama?

((((((Zennurse!))))))

Phoenix Woman, I followed that YouTube link in the article, but it doesn’t look anything like the incident you describe. No coffin, no photo, no eagles – just some folks scuffling with police for some reason.

Politicians who say elect me; I want to end the war. But I want to end the war in such a fashion as it does not harm the troops. What does that mean?

I think it means that they are beholden to the war-makers and the military/industrial complex that has paid for their commitment to continue pouring our tax dollars into their coffers. It’s an excuse not to have to honor the will of the vast majority of the populace.

Kathryn in MA @ 116

I saw Mr and Mrs Arredondo in DC, Sept 15.
Here are some pictures.

Great pictures! Actually, I told jeansntshirt above that I liked this picture thinking it was on her/his site. Ooopsie. Anyways…loved it!

http://bp0.blogger.com/_ghKS4c…..G_0777.JPG

Oklahoma kiddo @ 135

That picture at the top is disturbing.

lahoma

Come now, my dear, any photo of Shrub is disturbing to you…!!! *g*

Eyeballs on Zennurse!

CTuttle @ 125

Oklahoma kiddo @ 121

Politicians who say elect me; I want to end the war. But I want to end the war in such a fashion as it does not harm the troops. What does that mean?

Get them out of harm’s way! As expediently as possible, screw the equipment…!!!

Yes! Thank you for making this point so succinctly. Screw the equipment, bring these young men and women home to their families.

Dream on….

I know anyone can have skin problems, but thank goodness the leader of these creeps is pockmarked all to hell.

Speaking personally, I’d like to GOE to consider honoring other victims of shrub’s policies… start with this rather disturbing list of the dead:

http://www.katrinalist.columbia.edu/

And if they want a count of the victims
http://www.katrinalist.columbia.edu/stats.php

I mean.. these people also died for their country, didn’t they?

Cujo359 @ 138

Phoenix Woman, I followed that YouTube link in the article, but it doesn’t look anything like the incident you describe. No coffin, no photo, no eagles – just some folks scuffling with police for some reason.

I saw it cujo at a link someone provided above.

juslin @ 117

as a participant at that march on 9/15 – as we marched to the capitol that nasty group tried to goad us into a confrontation but no one fed into it – probably really angered them….

More details, Juslin, if you can!

Yep! Screw the equipment. Most of it is old anyways and not up to today’s standards. So bring out troops home now and give the Iraqi government our equipment (which is something they’ve been asking for anyways!), so they can be better prepared once we do leave.

Sounds good to me.

OT: My heart goes out to the Cubbies fans out there. Was rooting hard for them to get to the WS.

OT.. did anyone go to the Blackwater protest in Potrero today? I’m still out of town :(

I hate every fucking day of this war, and I have for over 17 years!

OT – The word on the Anchorage street is that this coming week will bring between 12 and 15 new GOP corruption indictments. Friday was the last regular day of the current Anchorage Grand Jury, though they can serve through October, IIRC. The word being floated around is that they will involve Ted Stevens and his cronies’ ties to the Seattle-based offshore fishing industry, which has since its inception, shifted billions of dollars in fish processing jobs from Alaska coastal communities to offshore processors based in Seattle or the Orient.

Talked to a guy at a benefit for Veterans this afternoon who had lunch with Ted in DC two weeks ago. He said Ted was so bad off mentally, the guy cried when he left the Presence.

KayInMaine @ 90

Disgusting, huh? TRex get over here! Now! LOL

Kay, this just really needs the TRex treatment. :-)

CTuttle @ 131

Oops, My fowl friend, that’s stuffed and basted is about ready to sit for a spell…!!!

Are the potatoes and asparagus ready yet? Or the anniversary chocolate pie?

zennurse,
How lovely to see you!

Ed*ard Teller @ 150

I hate every fucking day of this war, and I have for over 17 years!

OT – The word on the Anchorage street is that this coming week will bring between 12 and 15 new GOP corruption indictments. Friday was the last regular day of the current Anchorage Grand Jury, though they can serve through October, IIRC. The word being floated around is that they will involve Ted Stevens and his cronies’ ties to the Seattle-based offshore fishing industry, which has since its inception, shifted billions of dollars in fish processing jobs from Alaska coastal communities to offshore processors based in Seattle or the Orient.

Talked to a guy at a benefit for Veterans this afternoon who had lunch with Ted in DC two weeks ago. He said Ted was so bad off mentally, the guy cried when he left the Presence.

Thanks for bringing us this, ET. Looking forward to another “Duke at the mic” moment.

Took the quiz. Um, my #1 is (don’t anyone yell at me) Gravel. Then, Kucinich and then Dodd.
The Mr. got Kuchich and Dodd.

hackworth @ 128

Bush, Cheny and a couple hundred people like them are getting rich beyond their wildest dreams. That’s for what. Too bad the vote was close enough to steal twice. Shame on anyone that voted Republican.

Right on. I’m really having a hard time finding any ounce of forgiveness for Repube voters over the last few elections. And now they’re trying to distance themselves from the “Bush Admin.” Please…you fuckwads brought this on the world, even though their intentions have been painfully obvious for decades!

Not only that, for many years Repubelickin voters have childishly derided people like me, rarely attempting any sort debate, and have consciously tried to turn “liberal” into a dirty word.

Dipshits. STFU and let us “moonbats” clean up your mess, just like we always do…

Ed*ard Teller @ 151

I hate every fucking day of this war, and I have for over 17 years!

OT – The word on the Anchorage street is that this coming week will bring between 12 and 15 new GOP corruption indictments. Friday was the last regular day of the current Anchorage Grand Jury, though they can serve through October, IIRC. The word being floated around is that they will involve Ted Stevens and his cronies’ ties to the Seattle-based offshore fishing industry, which has since its inception, shifted billions of dollars in fish processing jobs from Alaska coastal communities to offshore processors based in Seattle or the Orient.

Talked to a guy at a benefit for Veterans this afternoon who had lunch with Ted in DC two weeks ago. He said Ted was so bad off mentally, the guy cried when he left the Presence.

Nice. *wringing hands*

Thank you, Kay in Maine! After every picture, i would show the pic to my subjects and ask their permission to post on a picture blog. they all were excited about that. What a great day!

Jay @ 139

Politicians who say elect me; I want to end the war. But I want to end the war in such a fashion as it does not harm the troops. What does that mean?

I think it means that they are beholden to the war-makers and the military/industrial complex that has paid for their commitment to continue pouring our tax dollars into their coffers. It’s an excuse not to have to honor the will of the vast majority of the populace.

Maybe Congress should just agree to fund the war profiteers without the actual war. Billions of dollars a year to them just to get them to STFU. We’d surely be in a better spot internationally, and it would save us huge amounts in life and quality of life. Just like a big freaking lollipop.

Things Come Undone @ 95

dov12348 @ 75

I’m tempted to join their discussion group and teach them a thing or two. I used to like to go on right wing discussion groups from time to time and mess with their heads. Sometimes as soon as they sniffed out that I was being critical — no matter how civil I was — I’d get banned, though. I was banned from Free Republic three times, using different e-mails.

http://gatheringofeagles.org/forum

Disent can’t be tolerated because OMG they might learn something! These are the same guys who gave Socrates the Hemlock!

Yep — they can’t tolerate the truth. Since their principles are based on lies, if they allowed the truth their blogs would collapse like a house of cards.

Loo Hoo. @ 159

Jay @ 139

I think it means that they are beholden to the war-makers and the military/industrial complex that has paid for their commitment to continue pouring our tax dollars into their coffers. It’s an excuse not to have to honor the will of the vast majority of the populace.

Maybe Congress should just agree to fund the war profiteers without the actual war. Billions of dollars a year to them just to get them to STFU. We’d surely be in a better spot internationally, and it would save us huge amounts in life and quality of life. Just like a big freaking lollipop.

Now there’s an idea !

loohoo@147

as we left the rally in the park near the white house we were met by a few pro-war supporters…they were lined up on the sidewalk along the parade route – lots of capitol police with riot gear as well…pro-war folks were yelling at us as we marched…answer parade marshalls kept us moving swiftly..since the bushco crowd couldn’t get the rise from us – i think thats when they became agitated….they hit a woman in her face – the police didnt in tervene right away – but the marshals pulled the woman onto the 1raqi war vets bus and cleaned her up – to her credit the lady jumped right back on the parade route!! when we arrived at the capitol the police were already marching protesters up the capitol steps to be arrested

Elliott @ 162

Now there’s an idea !

Speaking historically, it’s generally a bad idea to fund militarists when there’s no actual war. They tend to plot coups.

Maybe Congress should just agree to fund the war profiteers without the actual war. Billions of dollars a year to them just to get them to STFU. We’d surely be in a better spot internationally, and it would save us huge amounts in life and quality of life. Just like a big freaking lollipop.

Sure as hell works for me. Of course you know how that GOP hates to see wasteful spending, perhaps they can use the munitions on each other and leave those of us that would enjoy peace out of it.

Blub @ 164

Elliott @ 162

Now there’s an idea !

Speaking historically, it’s generally a bad idea to fund militarists when there’s no actual war. They tend to plot coups.

Who needs coup when you have a Supreme Court that will do the work for you.

hackworth @ 39

Alternative names for Gathering of Eagles:

Gathering of Bird Brains

A Flock of Seagulls

Sweeping Up Bird Droppings

Chicken F*ckers

No, I think this is a shortsighted view of what they are. These are the very people who we call upon to defend our nation, with or without good reasons, and we need to have people like that. Historically they tend to be Scots-Irish, ref. Senator Webb’s book on this subject.

These patriots are our natural allies if we can just figure out how to reach across the linguistic divide. They want what’s best for our country, with a minimum of their children and nieces and nephews killed. Don’t we as well?

It’s an easy thing to be the armchair quarterbacks and proclaim what is right when no one in our immediate family is out there putting their lives on the line. I do have family and the child of close friends out there so my perspective is a little different.

We want people to volunteer to defend our nation. We expect that our leaders will only jeopardize their lives for something truly urgent. That didn’t happen here despite the wingers’ attempt to hype islamoterrorism or green/environ/terrorism or boo scary brown people/immigrants or whatever works for them at the moment.

We hear from insiders such as Murtha that we might be destroying our army and marines for a generation. I find this alarming. Despite coming thru the Vietnam era as someone fairly anti-military [truly sorry, raven, et al] I am horrified that we might be truly depleting our remaining defensive assets now. And for what.

zennurse @ 106

Hi friends, just popping in for my 5-10 allowed minutes of reading (had eye surgery Thursday for a detached retina–can’t recommend it). The one thing I can do is watch videos, saw “Red State” by Michael Shea– he traveled from Ca to Red States to try to gain some understanding of where they were coming from and try to find common ground. He couldn’t. It is a good documentary, he talks to a cross section of folks, but they essentially want “the ten commandments to replace the Bill of Rights”.

I agree that the GOE folks may have lost loved ones, but that doesn’t justify hate or violence. They seem to be searching for hate, much like the vigilantes on the mexican border who are just rentacops wanting to pick a fight.

Have to go back to blindness, great to see you , miss you,

namaste

I think we can accomadate the Red Staters
After all

1) have no gods before God, to which we add that INCLUDES MONEY/CAPITALISM

2) Thou shall not take the Name of the Lord in Vain, or 9/11 for that matter Rudy for the same reasons twisting the sacred for the profane purpose of getting elected is wrong. Supporting a war in Iraq while the Osama the killer of 9/11 remains free insults our dead. It puts a war for oil as more important than our dead who we still claim to fight for?

3) Keep the Sabbath holy, except for Doctors, Police and Firemen who must work if society is to survive, then yeah everyone deserves one day off work!

4) Honor you Mom and Dad, Don’t privitize their Social Security

5) Thou Shall not Kill Iraqi’s when they HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11

6) Don’t Steal, and that includes war proffitering Dick!

7) Don’t Lie Scooter, Gonzo this means you! The President told me to excuse will not work in the Kingdom of Heaven!

8) Thou shall not covet thy Neighbors house by lending him money to buy a house knowing that he can never pay you back!

9 ) Thou Shall Not Covet thy Neighbors Wife…which is not a problem for the GOP, Men, Boys, Prosititues on the other hand.

Which Comandment am I missing?

OMFG! Stanford just moved ahead of USC with a backup quarterback in the last minute of the 4th Quarter…and LSU is getting beaten by Florida.

Could the Cal Bears end up #1 in the nation after this weekend?

The pendulum has swung way around!

No, i think this is a shortsighted view of what they are. These are the very people who we call upon to defend our nation, with or without good reasons, and we need to have people like that.

Really? Then why on earth are they bullying war-protesters in the streets. These aren’t the people we call on to fight, they are the cowards that prefer to send the children of others to die. Maybe I’ve missed something?

Blub @ 150

OT.. did anyone go to the Blackwater protest in Potrero today? I’m still out of town :(

Blub @ 164

Elliott @ 162

Now there’s an idea !

Speaking historically, it’s generally a bad idea to fund militarists when there’s no actual war. They tend to plot coups.

I wasn’t being serious. It just all seems so STUPID.

Ed*ard Teller @ 151

Talked to a guy at a benefit for Veterans this afternoon who had lunch with Ted in DC two weeks ago. He said Ted was so bad off mentally, the guy cried when he left the Presence.

Being a Liberal, I immediately get a tinge of feeling sorry for Teddy Toobz. Maybe we should reach out to him and help in his time of need.

Fuck that.

I’m learning to save compassion for those who deserve it. People like Sen. Tubular, Shrub, Delay are literally the worst of the worst in our society. They count on Dems to “focus on the future” and let them slither away, only to come back years later to take advantage of our tendency to forgive, and to give second chances.

It is way past time to bury this fossil, and all his friends in DeeCee, once and for all.

egregious @ 167

hackworth @ 39

Alternative names for Gathering of Eagles:

Gathering of Bird Brains

A Flock of Seagulls

Sweeping Up Bird Droppings

Chicken F*ckers

No, I think this is a shortsighted view of what they are. These are the very people who we call upon to defend our nation, with or without good reasons, and we need to have people like that. Historically they tend to be Scots-Irish, ref. Senator Webb’s book on this subject.

These patriots are our natural allies if we can just figure out how to reach across the linguistic divide. They want what’s best for our country, with a minimum of their children and nieces and nephews killed. Don’t we as well?

It’s an easy thing to be the armchair quarterbacks and proclaim what is right when no one in our immediate family is out there putting their lives on the line. I do have family and the child of close friends out there so my perspective is a little different.

We want people to volunteer to defend our nation. We expect that our leaders will only jeopardize their lives for something truly urgent. That didn’t happen here despite the wingers’ attempt to hype islamoterrorism or green/environ/terrorism or boo scary brown people/immigrants or whatever works for them at the moment.

We hear from insiders such as Murtha that we might be destroying our army and marines for a generation. I find this alarming. Despite coming thru the Vietnam era as someone fairly anti-military [truly sorry, raven, et al] I am horrified that we might be truly depleting our remaining defensive assets now. And for what.

Technically you’re correct, but these people would find pleasure storming into American homes in the middle of the night and killing everyone inside because they heard a rumor that there were liberals living there. See? They’re scary.

Don’t make and worship idols.
I had to look it up. It’s separate from worship God only.
But in this house, we always quote the Mel Brooks version from History Of The World. Fifteen (crash), uh, ten. Ten Commandments. I wonder what the other five would have been.

Jeffrey Toobin is annoying.

Kathryn in MA @ 159

Thank you, Kay in Maine! After every picture, i would show the pic to my subjects and ask their permission to post on a picture blog. they all were excited about that. What a great day!

You’re welcome! There’s nothing better than hanging with other great patriots or viewing pictures of them getting together for a common cause! :-)

demi @ 173

Don’t make and worship idols.
I had to look it up. It’s separate from worship God only.
But in this house, we always quote the Mel Brooks version from History Of The World. Fifteen (crash), uh, ten. Ten Commandments. I wonder what the other five would have been.

maybe one of them would have been you are your brother’s keeper.

Loo Hoo. @ 171

I wasn’t being serious. It just all seems so STUPID.

oh I know :)… I was just being my usual facetious self…

Did I hear someone say guerilla warfare?

I don’t see why our troops can’t come home and Blackwater employees stay to defend the masses. They’re the ones who have been sucking our coffers dry and causing more problems than anything, so since they are lawless militants, let them stay there instead! There’s more of them than US soldiers anyways…

Jay @ 170

No, i think this is a shortsighted view of what they are. These are the very people who we call upon to defend our nation, with or without good reasons, and we need to have people like that.

Really? Then why on earth are they bullying war-protesters in the streets. These aren’t the people we call on to fight, they are the cowards that prefer to send the children of others to die. Maybe I’ve missed something?

Plus, where did this notion come from that these “people” have family/friends in Iraq? I’ve read several stories on these goons, who take their marching orders from radio schlock jock Melamine Whoregan, and not one single one I’ve seen profiled has an immediate connection to Iraq. Literally…not one out of many.

There probably are some, but I’m willing to bet the Pro-Peace movement has many more Iraq connections than the Smattering of Egos crowd does.

One is a slave to that which one worships. FWIW

KayInMaine @ 172

egregious @ 167

No, I think this is a shortsighted view of what they are. These are the very people who we call upon to defend our nation, with or without good reasons, and we need to have people like that. Historically they tend to be Scots-Irish, ref. Senator Webb’s book on this subject.

These patriots are our natural allies if we can just figure out how to reach across the linguistic divide. They want what’s best for our country, with a minimum of their children and nieces and nephews killed. Don’t we as well?

It’s an easy thing to be the armchair quarterbacks and proclaim what is right when no one in our immediate family is out there putting their lives on the line. I do have family and the child of close friends out there so my perspective is a little different.

We want people to volunteer to defend our nation. We expect that our leaders will only jeopardize their lives for something truly urgent. That didn’t happen here despite the wingers’ attempt to hype islamoterrorism or green/environ/terrorism or boo scary brown people/immigrants or whatever works for them at the moment.

We hear from insiders such as Murtha that we might be destroying our army and marines for a generation. I find this alarming. Despite coming thru the Vietnam era as someone fairly anti-military [truly sorry, raven, et al] I am horrified that we might be truly depleting our remaining defensive assets now. And for what.

Technically you’re correct, but these people would find pleasure storming into American homes in the middle of the night and killing everyone inside because they heard a rumor that there were liberals living there. See? They’re scary.

That’s a dramatic idea, and I see where you’re going with it. But there is a direction to this, a fine hand directing these counter-protesters. Free from their “minders”, they are natural allies, or Nascar dads.

Jay @ 170

No, i think this is a shortsighted view of what they are. These are the very people who we call upon to defend our nation, with or without good reasons, and we need to have people like that.

Really? Then why on earth are they bullying war-protesters in the streets. These aren’t the people we call on to fight, they are the cowards that prefer to send the children of others to die. Maybe I’ve missed something?

With all due respect to egregious (and much respect is due) I’m with Jay on this. These Eagle folks and most of the people who post here do not inhabit the same universe. That old guy in the fur hat in the video gave me the creeps when he talked about killing. He appears to miss it.

And I’ve pretty much had it with this “defend our nation” language too.

Loo Hoo. @ 153

CTuttle @ 131

Oops, My fowl friend, that’s stuffed and basted is about ready to sit for a spell…!!!

Are the potatoes and asparagus ready yet? Or the anniversary chocolate pie?

It’s almost at the grand finale, the asparagus is almost finished and my sauces and gravies are bubbling merrily away…!!!

Elliott @ 177

demi @ 173

Don’t make and worship idols.
I had to look it up. It’s separate from worship God only.
But in this house, we always quote the Mel Brooks version from History Of The World. Fifteen (crash), uh, ten. Ten Commandments. I wonder what the other five would have been.

maybe one of them would have been you are your brother’s keeper.

And, my favorite:
Thou shalt not be a schmuck.

newtonusr @ 182

KayInMaine @ 172

Technically you’re correct, but these people would find pleasure storming into American homes in the middle of the night and killing everyone inside because they heard a rumor that there were liberals living there. See? They’re scary.

That’s a dramatic idea, and I see where you’re going with it. But there is a direction to this, a fine hand directing these counter-protesters. Free from their “minders”, they are natural allies, or Nascar dads.

I couldn’t be friends with them. I wouldn’t even want to hang with them at a BBQ in my backyard. See? If they’re willing to go after the grieving father of an American soldier whose life was lost in war, then they sure as hell would have no problem going after my son, because he’s the son of a liberal Mom.

I don’t see them as allies. I see them as the opposite of everything I stand for.

Great 17th? Anniversary, Mr. and Mrs. Tuttle!

demi @ 174

Don’t make and worship idols.
I had to look it up. It’s separate from worship God only.
But in this house, we always quote the Mel Brooks version from History Of The World. Fifteen (crash), uh, ten. Ten Commandments. I wonder what the other five would have been.

Thanks Demi!
Thou shall not worship the false idol 9/11 as your end all be all excuse for endless war only the Lord is your Alpha and Omega!
It is wrong to kill people its even worst to kill them in the name of 9/11 and let Ossama remain free that is what is false about this war.
That is what makes 9/11 a false Idol we war with people we have no reason to war against. While at the same time we let the 9/11 Murders free!

demi @ 186

Elliott @ 177

maybe one of them would have been you are your brother’s keeper.

And, my favorite:
Thou shalt not be a schmuck.

Isn’t that the first…!!! ;-)

LS @ 181

One is a slave to that which one worships. FWIW

There’s an excellent convention next week put on by the Freedom From Religion Foundation (I could do without the Chalabi-lover Christopfur Hitchens speech).

http://ffrf.org/events/

Apparently they’re seeing record growth right now. I’ve always thought Atheism could solve a lot of the world’s problems.

And, my favorite:
Thou shalt not be a schmuck.

No. 11? Perhaps if a warning about checking one’s ego at the door doesn’t take, we could start reminding overly antagnostic folks about the eleventh commandment….in a nice way, of course!

LS @ 175

Jeffrey Toobin is annoying.

Very Inside-the-Beltway-itis.

CTuttle @ 185

Loo Hoo. @ 153

Are the potatoes and asparagus ready yet? Or the anniversary chocolate pie?

It’s almost at the grand finale, the asparagus is almost finished and my sauces and gravies are bubbling merrily away…!!!

Happy Anniversary to CT and Mrs. CT. Am I guessing correctly that you will be MIA from Late Night tonight?

Does one “earn” the lines in one’s face??? The photo speaks volumes. Voila.

Kay, it’s gone farther than that for me. People with whom I debated before the 2004 election, and who voted for Bush anyway? I can’t be around them anymore. It has certainly changed things for me on a social basis. So sad. I can understand their thinking (selfish-tax fear), but I just think the divide really said alot about values of my friends, and whom I choose to keep.

Aargh, din-din is done, and the better half is sleeping peacefully, a daughter is MIA, and my son isn’t hungry right now…!!! Happy 17th, to myself…!!! *g*

RonD @ 49

Evening all.
IANAL, but does Mr Arredondo have grounds for a civil case against the Eagles…and thus their finacing source?

Ding!

Good strategy – brought down a lot of white supremacist groups.

egregious is amazing and I’ve been frequenting FDL for years, sometimes chiming in and often just absorbing the excellence of the content here. Often, egregious’ talent for looking at an issue from all angles shows me another perspective. Sometimes I simply disagree.

Wake her with a kiss, ring a bell for the wayward gal and tell sonny he can sip water at the table!!! No excuses on this special family night!!!

Anon @ 144

I know anyone can have skin problems, but thank goodness the leader of these creeps is pockmarked all to hell.

It is an unfortunate collection of facial features. Though the only one he is responsible for is that haircut.

Bush is looking awfully old.

Laura Doty @ 200

Wake her with a kiss, ring a bell for the wayward gal and tell sonny he can sip water at the table!!! No excuses on this special family night!!!

I still need to round up the MIA daughter… *sigh* I certainly try the kiss, tho…!!!

Nice Undone, Thingscomeundone.
I always joke that the week (once each month) that I lead the early service at my church, I always give the same message (different versions of the same):
Don’t Be An Asshole.

Loo Hoo. @ 196

Kay, it’s gone farther than that for me. People with whom I debated before the 2004 election, and who voted for Bush anyway? I can’t be around them anymore. It has certainly changed things for me on a social basis. So sad. I can understand their thinking (selfish-tax fear), but I just think the divide really said alot about values of my friends, and whom I choose to keep.

I can totally relate, Loo Hoo! I find them to be dirty people now. I really can’t hang with anyone who thinks George Bush and what he’s done over the past seven years is the best thing to have ever happened to us! I really question who they are as human beings and why they have such contempt about human beings. Like I said….they’re dirty to me. I don’t want to be in the same room as them…at all. It’s sad, yes, but who do I blame for this? Them.

Fern @ 201

Anon @ 144

I know anyone can have skin problems, but thank goodness the leader of these creeps is pockmarked all to hell.

It is an unfortunate collection of facial features. Though the only one he is responsible for is that haircut.

Bush is looking awfully old.

And yet Bush claims to sleep peacefully and is secure in his righteousness. The amount he has aged in the last 6 years belies his whistling past the graveyard attitude.

LS @ 194

Does one “earn” the lines in one’s face??? The photo speaks volumes. Voila.

Years ago I was traveling through Idaho and my girlfriend and I stopped at a little thrift store somewhere. Behind the counter was a woman with the most weathered face I’d ever seen, weathered way beyond her years.

And then she smiled. Every single one of the wrinkles on her face was ripple out from her smile. Never in my life did I ever see a such a spectacular smile! wow!

Elliott @ 43

When will I wake up from this Crazy Dream?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPu5FHqGUXs

Los Lonely Boys rawhk! KPIG gives them plenty of play . . . *G*

Wonder if they’re getting any play elsewhere, in BIG corporate radio?

Loo Hoo. @ 196

Kay, it’s gone farther than that for me. People with whom I debated before the 2004 election, and who voted for Bush anyway? I can’t be around them anymore. It has certainly changed things for me on a social basis. So sad. I can understand their thinking (selfish-tax fear), but I just think the divide really said alot about values of my friends, and whom I choose to keep.

You can still love your friends. You can’t change people. Change, changes people. You can love them and accept what is, because what you feel about your friends is bigger than what they or you think.

Bush is looking awfully old.
I’ve been noticing that too.
I’d almost think that the pressure is getting to him, but I don’t think he cares. Wonder what it is?

LS @ 208

Loo Hoo. @ 196

Kay, it’s gone farther than that for me. People with whom I debated before the 2004 election, and who voted for Bush anyway? I can’t be around them anymore. It has certainly changed things for me on a social basis. So sad. I can understand their thinking (selfish-tax fear), but I just think the divide really said alot about values of my friends, and whom I choose to keep.

You can still love your friends. You can’t change people. Change, changes people. You can love them and accept what is, because what you feel about your friends is bigger than what they or you think.

Bad enough when it is your friends, but when it is family it can become somewhat problematic. It has taken hurculean will the last few Thanksgiving dinners for me not to flame the entire table, just for a giggle.

Don’t Be An Asshole.

I do believe an entire religion could be based on this alone.

I bet all the booze and drugs Bush is doing is helping to dry up his skin, because we know he’s not worrying about anything to cause those wrinkles. Nope. Not a care in the world!

KayInMaine @ 203

I can totally relate, Loo Hoo! I find them to be dirty people now. I really can’t hang with anyone who thinks George Bush and what he’s done over the past seven years is the best thing to have ever happened to us! I really question who they are as human beings and why they have such contempt about human beings. Like I said….they’re dirty to me. I don’t want to be in the same room as them…at all. It’s sad, yes, but who do I blame for this? Them.

Excellent summation. So with ya on this…

CTuttle @ 202

Laura Doty @ 200

Wake her with a kiss, ring a bell for the wayward gal and tell sonny he can sip water at the table!!! No excuses on this special family night!!!

I still need to round up the MIA daughter… *sigh* I certainly try the kiss, tho…!!!

Update, She liked the kiss, but, she’d like some more peace and quiet…!!! 8-(

KayInMaine @ 180

I don’t see why our troops can’t come home and Blackwater employees stay to defend the masses. They’re the ones who have been sucking our coffers dry and causing more problems than anything, so since they are lawless militants, let them stay there instead! There’s more of them than US soldiers anyways…

With no return tickets.

LS @ 208

Loo Hoo. @ 196

Kay, it’s gone farther than that for me. People with whom I debated before the 2004 election, and who voted for Bush anyway? I can’t be around them anymore. It has certainly changed things for me on a social basis. So sad. I can understand their thinking (selfish-tax fear), but I just think the divide really said alot about values of my friends, and whom I choose to keep.

You can still love your friends. You can’t change people. Change, changes people. You can love them and accept what is, because what you feel about your friends is bigger than what they or you think.

I know, LS, but it’s too soon and too raw. Too much damage. Hopefully, as seems likely, the moderate republicans will scream about the false issues they were told to support. And they will come back to reality.

New thread

madmommy @ 210

LS @ 208

You can still love your friends. You can’t change people. Change, changes people. You can love them and accept what is, because what you feel about your friends is bigger than what they or you think.

Bad enough when it is your friends, but when it is family it can become somewhat problematic. It has taken hurculean will the last few Thanksgiving dinners for me not to flame the entire table, just for a giggle.

I think the worst part for all of us was finding out who amongst us is a jackboot licker.

CTuttle @ 214

CTuttle @ 202

I still need to round up the MIA daughter… *sigh* I certainly try the kiss, tho…!!!

Update, She liked the kiss, but, she’d like some more peace and quiet…!!! 8-(

But, but… the asparagus!

demi @ 209

Bush is looking awfully old.
I’ve been noticing that too.
I’d almost think that the pressure is getting to him, but I don’t think he cares. Wonder what it is?

He is looking “shriveled” and “contracted” to me. That, to me, looks like he is holding tension (secrets) in his facial muscles. That takes a lot of subconscious effort and a lot of conscious effort. Secrecy takes a toll.

The war in Iraq and the debacle that has followed has completely changed two relationships for me. My aunt and I didn’t talk for years and have only recently resumed a tepid relationship. The final straw for us came when she hissed at me: “you’re a liberal” as we argued politics at Thanksgiving several year ago. It wasn’t what she said but the venom in her voice when she said it. Then she told me that she liked listening to Rush. I had no idea and was quite disappointed.

The other falling out was with a friend of my wife, who was a complete wingnut. We still haven’t spoken and I really wanted to speak with her after her brother was killed in Iraq last year (he was with the State Dept. and was killed by an IED in a political convoy). I wonder how she feels now?

Fern @ 219

CTuttle @ 214

Update, She liked the kiss, but, she’d like some more peace and quiet…!!! 8-(

But, but… the asparagus!

??????? CT????

I’m not saying I don’t get angry with folks or find certain people repugnant, because I do. But I see part of my task in this life as learning to search out and honor what is good in another, even someone that presents as–frankly–awful. (And I can assure you that, in my forensic work, I know for awful.) I’m not saying it’s easy or trying to preach. I just want to observe that people rarely change when they are in a situation in which they are shamed. Sometimes, they HAVE to experience shame–that may be a learning moment. But they change when they also experience something else from those around them. Some kind of respect, encouragement…something that gives them a feeling of dignity and of being part of the community. Alienated people don’t clamor to get in the circle….they want to hit at it.

So, (speaking only for myself) I try to remember to make that sort of space for others. At the same time, I remember that the Dalai Lama once said that some people are so disruptive to us, that we can’t be around them. I figure if the Dalai Lama has to give himself space sometimes, the rest of us can too.

Perhaps it’s fair to own our own responsibility for the issue. Limits of tolerance, limits of patience……I certainly feel I bump into my own limits often these days.

Laura Doty @ 223

I’m not saying I don’t get angry with folks or find certain people repugnant, because I do. But I see part of my task in this life as learning to search out and honor what is good in another, even someone that presents as–frankly–awful. (And I can assure you that, in my forensic work, I know for awful.) I’m not saying it’s easy or trying to preach. I just want to observe that people rarely change when they are in a situation in which they are shamed. Sometimes, they HAVE to experience shame–that may be a learning moment. But they change when they also experience something else from those around them. Some kind of respect, encouragement…something that gives them a feeling of dignity and of being part of the community. Alienated people don’t clamor to get in the circle….they want to hit at it.

So, (speaking only for myself) I try to remember to make that sort of space for others. At the same time, I remember that the Dalai Lama once said that some people are so disruptive to us, that we can’t be around them. I figure if the Dalai Lama has to give himself space sometimes, the rest of us can too.

Perhaps it’s fair to own our own responsibility for the issue. Limits of tolerance, limits of patience……I certainly feel I bump into my own limits often these days.

Yes.

Laura Doty @ 200

Wake her with a kiss, ring a bell for the wayward gal and tell sonny he can sip water at the table!!! No excuses on this special family night!!!

That says it all. thank you.

albert fall @ 215

KayInMaine @ 180

I don’t see why our troops can’t come home and Blackwater employees stay to defend the masses. They’re the ones who have been sucking our coffers dry and causing more problems than anything, so since they are lawless militants, let them stay there instead! There’s more of them than US soldiers anyways…

With no return tickets.

…and send in the Saudis too. They need a good ass kicking as well. ;-)

Jay @ 221

The war in Iraq and the debacle that has followed has completely changed two relationships for me. My aunt and I didn’t talk for years and have only recently resumed a tepid relationship. The final straw for us came when she hissed at me: “you’re a liberal” as we argued politics at Thanksgiving several year ago. It wasn’t what she said but the venom in her voice when she said it. Then she told me that she liked listening to Rush. I had no idea and was quite disappointed.

The other falling out was with a friend of my wife, who was a complete wingnut. We still haven’t spoken and I really wanted to speak with her after her brother was killed in Iraq last year (he was with the State Dept. and was killed by an IED in a political convoy). I wonder how she feels now?

Jay…it is frustrating when other people see things differently. When you can accept that they do see things differently, even when you are afraid that their viewpoint could lead toward destruction, you can let go of even your own beliefs. When you do, you can better communicate with those that disagreed with your former assumptions (because of the lack of animosity), and maybe then you can expess your views….and be “heard”.

PW GREAT story.

I have a question for others in this thread who asked about arrests, money, and legality of what happened.

As many of you know, I have been tracking some of the people on talk radio who spout violent rhetoric. With this incident we have ACTUAL violence directed toward people having a peaceful presentation. Would it make any difference if you knew that there was a radio host using the public air waves to help gather all these people together to “Fight back” against the peaceful protesters at this event?

When does inciting violence become real? Does someone have to die? Is someone getting punched or tackled count? If you gather a group of people for the express purpose of “fighting back” against peaceful protesters and someone then is hurt or dies are the people who used the public air waves in this fashion responsible?

I ask this because GOE worked in conjunction with Move America Forward to gather together for this event. The head of MAF, Melanie Morgan, bragged about an event very similar to the described by PW. Only in Morgan’s description of the event one of the die-in protesters made the first physical move following verbal abuse. Then one of the “Fighting Debs” punched the die-in protester. In their mind that is ’self defense’ and it okay.

I would love to know if anyone has video of the event as described by Ms. Morgans on her show.
Here is the audio clip.
Please listen
http://www.spockosbrain.com/Mo…..H06M00.wma

Morgan spent weeks pitching this event (and collecting money for it). What are the guidelines on using the public air waves to gather a group that then attacks people? Are there any?
I’m sure it is all fine and legal since nobody was hurt, right? Right? Hmmm.

CSPAN 2 – now, if you can take it..

Thanks LS.

This very issue has caused me some heartache over the last few years. Seeing things differently is fine, but it’s very disappointing to realize that members of my own family have fallen prey to the “liberals bad, USA always just” propaganda that has made this country so ill. I’m not so sure I can let it go completely, that I’ll ever truly respect these people. My aunt’s mother (my awesome grandmother) is elderly and not well and our riff had her beside herself, so we managed to break the ice and can at least attend family functions together…but it’ll never be the same. No politics can be discussed.

Jay @ 230

Thanks LS.

This very issue has caused me some heartache over the last few years. Seeing things differently is fine, but it’s very disappointing to realize that members of my own family have fallen prey to the “liberals bad, USA always just” propaganda that has made this country so ill. I’m not so sure I can let it go completely, that I’ll ever truly respect these people. My aunt’s mother (my awesome grandmother) is elderly and not well and our riff had her beside herself, so we managed to break the ice and can at least attend family functions together…but it’ll never be the same. No politics can be discussed.

I know, my sister-in-law is an awesome person, but she believes that if we don’t “stop the terrorists”…our daughters will wear “burkas”…….you can’t reason with that…time will take care of it one way or the other….that is just a perception….reality will be….reality….either we all have to don burkas or not…in my opinion, not…in her opinion yes. I “know” for sure that I won’t ever join a movement that I don’t believe in…her feeling is that we will somehow be forced to, by the boogymen. I love her no matter what she thinks or I think. That stuff is just a story someone is telling us, and I refuse to buy the story. She buys it.

Jay, I’m glad you were able to mend things even a bit, for the family’s sake. I hope things change. My father and I had TERRIBLE fights, TERRIBLE ones during the VN war. But we hung in somehow. We never really agreed about politics, but eventually learned–over many years–how to talk to each other without getting mean.

Still, he used to drive my husband nuts with his off-the-wall ideas (re: politics, that is. In many other ways he was a wonderful guy). He asked how I managed not to get angry and laughed out loud when I told him I just didn’t bother going ‘there’ with him. I knew what he would say would make no sense, so why work myself into a lather? Gaining that wisdom helped me connect with my father so much better. We were very close up to the day he died. I miss him so much and I know he’d still be taking a totally other point of view from mine!

I hope you can find some common ground with your aunt somehow.

LS,

I am certainly no Rhodes scholar, but I think that a lack of education is the crux of the problem (not speaking about anyone in particular here). When you have no exposure to the world outside of your own affairs, when you can’t identify Mexico on a map (let alone the Middle East), when you don’t read and all of your information comes from American TV and radio….well, this is what you get. Now, surely there are millions of well educated Americans that are on board with the propaganda, and they’re even more sickening.

Fern @ 184

. . .
And I’ve pretty much had it with this “defend our nation” language too.

Right on.

I will NOT compromise on Kansas v. Board of Ed.

I will NOT compromise on Roe v. Wade.

I will NOT tolerate bigotry, racism, and intolerence of cultures and religons.

I will not tolerate those who would impose the Rule Of God upon me and OVER the Rule of Law and OUR CONSTITUTION!

There IS no middle ground with the people who believe in the things that will tear our nation.

It IS a struggle, and really only one side can win in the long run, and that run is nearing the race’s end methinks.

There IS no middle ground to be had! Seeking one only emboldens them, and they drive the wedge deeper.

I will NOT tolerate putting God, before nation and law. Or any OTHER hackneyed scheme to take away MY rights, under the Constitution and the Rule Of Law.

It’s them or us.

They give NO room for any middle ground, as they continue to force themselves upon the masses, and to force their beliefs upon our existence.

If progressives took an active and VOCAL stand and drew the line, the politician’s would HAVE to come to heel.

And when we DO take a stand, and draw the line, the 1% will come out in force to silence us.

After all, at this point in our lives, to position our Constitution and our Rule Of Law over God will upset the balance of power greatly. And the 1% won’t be abiding that, nicely.

So ya see, we lose ground with appeasement, and if we stand our ground, we risk complete subjugation.

Likely, the US will fracture at some point, like Russia did. We are too divided. The chasm’s too deep.

I’ll stand for my beliefs. I’ll not wither passively.

That’s just my choice, and my wife’s.

We’d rather fight with conviction, than live without honor.

As humans, we acquire all KINDS of tools to cope and survive as we grow.

Passifism is one such tool.

The ways and successes of non-violence are well chronicled in our species history.

Our country was FOUNDED on violence, after a GREATLY chronicled pacifist event of disobedience (although the destruction of someone else’s property COULD have been considered a CRIMINAL act. The tea, ya know).

But without ALL the tools in one’s bag of tricks, one is limited.

The key is to know what tool to use as the moment demands . . . The fact that NO ONE threw a punch against the Eagles to defend a grieving father who had been VIOLATED sickens me.

Sometimes, you gotta fight back.

That time is coming nigh . . . for us all.

Tough choices, all made individually.

But sometimes ya gotta fight back against the bullies.

And all they know is pain and fear. They can NOT be rehabilitated. They cannot be appeased. They cannot be reasoed with. They’ve proven that, thruout time.

They can only be cowered and driven away. Perhaps, as a subspecies, to die out sooner than later, as did the dinosaurs.

Perhaps we need to be their meteor.

Sometimes ya gotta use all yer tools.

I’m not Jewish, but one of the most strongest words I’ve ever heard in my life, in any language, its meaning taught to me by Jewish friends over the years . . . is Shalom.

Shalom. And certainly, peace where possible.

With that, I go back to The Bhudda.

Cuz I never know if I’m coming or going, or whether to say hello, or goodbye.

Namaste. ;-)

LS @ 227

. . . and maybe then you can expess your views….and be “heard”.

With some, sure. With others, not so much.

Gotta have a full toolbox, and use the right one at the right time.

Turn, Turn, Turn. ;-)

How fitting, the pair of chickenhawks, together at last. Set the dial on the wayback machine to 2005:

College GOPers For War (As Long As They Don’t Have To Go)

The group Young Americans For Freedom has been around for a long time. Sometimes they’re on TV—like on C-SPAN, and it’s always entertaining to see such charmingly well-dressed, well-scrubbed, and over-weight young cheerleaders for the GOP. All they really need is brown uniforms. They’re the somewhat grown-up children of privelege, hoping for good careers.

Clarisse Profilet:
‘Meet the young chickenhawks’
Date: Friday, October 14 @ 10:14:43 EDT (2005)
Topic: War & Terrorism

The Nation

The cheeky website buzzflash.com recently posted a petition calling for Jenna and Barbara Bush to serve in Iraq. But the famously private Bush twins have never disclosed their views on the war; they may even be opposed. So calling for them to serve might not be fair. But there are young and prominent Bush-backers who deserve to be targets of such a petition: The assorted leaders of the College Republicans and Young Americans for Freedom (YAF) are cheerleaders for a war they are unwilling to fight.

Both YAF and College Republicans have staged prowar demonstrations on college campuses across the country. Prior to the invasion of Iraq, the College Republican National Committee released a statement proclaiming, “As our troops prepare for battle, the College Republican National Committee and its 100,000 members are prepared to show the world that the majority of students support the efforts of the president and our troops to liberate the people of Iraq and to rid the world of this murderous dictator and his weapons of mass destruction.” The CRNC’s website praises George W. Bush for “defending the peace by taking the fight to the terrorists.”

The even more zealous YAFers have made it clear that they not only support the war but are openly hostile to those who oppose it. Their rowdy prowar rallies have attracted plenty of press. In March 2003, CBS news reported on a YAF event held in Minnesota at which the chapter’s executive director Chris Hill had strong words for antiwar activists: “The top of the antiwar movement is led by communists, and I will call them that,” he said. “Unlike these communists, we have truth on our side…. We say to those who oppose this war, Go to France.” Hill’s YAF chapter has also publicly denigrated antiwar demonstrators as “cowards.” All of this raises the question: If opponents of the war should go to France, shouldn’t Hill–and other members of YAF and College Republicans–go to Iraq? In response to a query by The Nation about whether any leaders have volunteered to fight the war in Iraq, Shauna Moser, the chairman of Penn State YAF, said only that information on YAF officials could be found with a simple “search in a search engine.”

Indeed, YAF chairman Erik Johnson, vice chairman Darren Marks and fourteen other national officials have posted brief autobiographies on YAF’s website. According to these bios, not one of them has served in the military or has any intention to do so in the future. YAF official Chris Hill told The Nation that he had been a member of his university’s Navy ROTC program and the moderator of a blog where he offered advice to aspiring soldiers on how to obtain a military commission. But he chose to seek a master’s degree rather than join the armed forces. Asked about this decision, he said, “But I know people over there, and that’s a fact.” Does it undermine his group’s prowar position if all the YAF higher-ups are unwilling to participate directly in the war? “I don’t think so,” Hill replied. “You don’t have to be involved in something to believe in it.“

And that appears to be the sentiment of the College Republicans’ board members as well. None of them–the controversial chairman Paul Gourley and officers Jess Beeson, Nathaniel Harding, Britton Alexander, Dan Schuberth and Tom Robins–boast any military experience. Their posted bios do not refer to any past, present or future military service, though they do describe in detail the postgraduate work and political aspirations of these young right-wingers.

Conservative campus groups like YAF and College Republicans are growing in strength and numbers. And since the start of the Iraq War, these outfits have stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Bush to support the war, but they have not stood alongside the soldiers doing the actual fighting and dying. They want someone else to do the hard work.

Oh, I don’t know. It’s probably hard work being an asshole.

Likely, the US will fracture at some point, like Russia did. We are too divided. The chasm’s too deep.

I agree, cultural and religious divisions, too much geography.

The fact that NO ONE threw a punch against the Eagles to defend a grieving father who had been VIOLATED sickens me.

Me too. I believe that my reaction would have been to physically intervene and I know that day is coming. I do fear though that unless we force this government to reverse course on their march toward fascism, my young children may be visiting dad in a jail cell…or worse.

Tough choices ahead, I have no doubt.

Jay @ 237

. . .
Tough choices ahead, I have no doubt.

Agreed.

We are lucky in that we’ve no children.
Our actions are accountable to only our selves. Although if we DID have children, I’m sure my wife would insist we set a gold bar standard of principle.

MY parents did, and I got lucky marrying the woman I did. ;-)

Best to you, and all.

On to the next thread . . . ;-)

Is there any reason Chris Hill is such an ugly motherfucker?

Jay @ 233

LS,

I am certainly no Rhodes scholar, but I think that a lack of education is the crux of the problem (not speaking about anyone in particular here). When you have no exposure to the world outside of your own affairs, when you can’t identify Mexico on a map (let alone the Middle East), when you don’t read and all of your information comes from American TV and radio….well, this is what you get. Now, surely there are millions of well educated Americans that are on board with the propaganda, and they’re even more sickening.

Well..the people I speak of have lived all over the world…as I have. The people I know that have those opinions are either…military families who have lived in Asia/SE Asia for military reasons, or families that are diplomatically-connected families, living both in Europe and Asia/SE Asia. In my case, diplomatic.

egregious @ 167

hackworth @ 39

We want people to volunteer to defend our nation….We hear from insiders such as Murtha that we might be destroying our army and marines for a generation. I find this alarming. Despite coming thru the Vietnam era as someone fairly anti-military [truly sorry, raven, et al] I am horrified that we might be truly depleting our remaining defensive assets now. And for what.

You’re nuts. What do you need that military for? There is no country on earth that can attack the United States. Geography saw to that, unless you think you’re going to be invaded by Canada or Mexico. In his Lyceum address, 1838, the young Abraham Lincoln said it as well as anyone ever has:

At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it?– Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never!–All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.

At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.

Those people you call “patriots” are your enemies. They want to destroy you. And you don’t need them for cannon fodder, either. If the United States minded its own business, it would be able to build its economic and cultural power back up to the point where no other nation could hope to equal it. All of its major competitors, such as China, are facing huge, unavoidable, and perhaps fatal challenges. It is only the United States that is able to indulge in the luxury of dying by self-inflicted and largely voluntary wounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
Inspiring!

Who is the A..hole to the left rear of the photo? Blackwater????????

Yep, we got those kinds of people up here too, though not quite extreme.

Anyway, we have people like this guy to keep up company on our protests here.

Dont miss Chris Hill’s speech:

http://www.youtube.com/jp.swf?…..Ab9Axh6jMN

These guys are creeps. I would call them a modern day Sturmabteilung, but they’d take it as a compliment.

Chris Hill looks like Deb Cagan when she’s not in drag.. and with a badly applied fake nose..