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	<title>Comments on: Torture &#8212; It&#8217;s All the Rage</title>
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		<title>By: pow wow</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1015044</link>
		<dc:creator>pow wow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 02:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1015044</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;  Mary  says:&lt;br /&gt;
October 4th, 2007 at 2:05 pm&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So how many [of] the article’s authors - SCOTT SHANE, DAVID JOHNSTON and JAMES RISEN - would Fitzgerald want to send to jail?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;None, I’m sure, Mary.  Good faith reports of illegal government activity, even if from classified sources (what &lt;i&gt;isn’t&lt;/i&gt; classified these days, anyway?), ought to be beyond the defined limits of any sort of prosecution risk for misuse of classified information.  Shielding &lt;b&gt;corporations&lt;/b&gt; (most reporters are not independent operators), who happen to employ reporters (even corporations like FOX that employ partisan activists to advance the agendas of their friends in the Executive Branch in the name of “reporting”), simply misses the point, and avoids addressing the nub of the problem:  the need to safeguard the &lt;b&gt;leakers&lt;/b&gt; of secret government malfeasance themselves, rather than the media they use to reach the public, from both burdensome legal fees for fear of legal jeopardy and from legal jeopardy itself. Creating and enacting effective, well-defined and ironclad whistleblower protection and rewards, in other words, is where Congress ought to be focusing its energies.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We need to stop focusing on and catering to the well-funded middlemen making the most noise, and start respecting and protecting the unfunded citizens who are doing these good deeds on our behalf, at their own risk and usually for no personal profit whatsoever.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>  Mary  says:<br />
October 4th, 2007 at 2:05 pm</p>
<p>So how many [of] the article’s authors &#8211; SCOTT SHANE, DAVID JOHNSTON and JAMES RISEN &#8211; would Fitzgerald want to send to jail?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>None, I’m sure, Mary.  Good faith reports of illegal government activity, even if from classified sources (what <i>isn’t</i> classified these days, anyway?), ought to be beyond the defined limits of any sort of prosecution risk for misuse of classified information.  Shielding <b>corporations</b> (most reporters are not independent operators), who happen to employ reporters (even corporations like FOX that employ partisan activists to advance the agendas of their friends in the Executive Branch in the name of “reporting”), simply misses the point, and avoids addressing the nub of the problem:  the need to safeguard the <b>leakers</b> of secret government malfeasance themselves, rather than the media they use to reach the public, from both burdensome legal fees for fear of legal jeopardy and from legal jeopardy itself. Creating and enacting effective, well-defined and ironclad whistleblower protection and rewards, in other words, is where Congress ought to be focusing its energies.</p>
<p>We need to stop focusing on and catering to the well-funded middlemen making the most noise, and start respecting and protecting the unfunded citizens who are doing these good deeds on our behalf, at their own risk and usually for no personal profit whatsoever.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014880</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 00:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1014366&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;LS @ 173&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1014305&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;rwcole @ 167&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Does Wilson live in New Mexico?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yup.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I love that not only do we get rid of Domenici, but if we win we also get rid of Heather Wilson.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s WIN-WIN baby!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1014366"><em>LS @ 173</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-1014305"><em>rwcole @ 167</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Does Wilson live in New Mexico?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yup.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I love that not only do we get rid of Domenici, but if we win we also get rid of Heather Wilson.</p>
<p>It’s WIN-WIN baby!</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014876</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 00:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014876</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1014316&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;rwcole @ 171&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The trouble with impeachement is that it’s a mathematical impossibility.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Times change.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Right now the Repubs see their boat sinking and each one is trying to save his/her own neck. In time it will become unbearable and they’ll start looking for life preservers (like SCHIP reauthorization) and the Dems might offer a hand with a bill of impeachment…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1014316"><em>rwcole @ 171</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The trouble with impeachement is that it’s a mathematical impossibility.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Times change.</p>
<p>Right now the Repubs see their boat sinking and each one is trying to save his/her own neck. In time it will become unbearable and they’ll start looking for life preservers (like SCHIP reauthorization) and the Dems might offer a hand with a bill of impeachment…</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014861</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 00:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014861</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1014277&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Ish @ 152&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1014265&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Badwater @ 141&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
P-Funk playing at the inaugural.  That’s gotta be good.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If George Clinton had been running the country for the last 6 1/2 years, we’d be in MUCH better shape. …
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If Edwards is elected then maybe he’ll get Delbert McClinton to perform. Not funk, but not quite Clinton either, so it’s all good.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1014277"><em>Ish @ 152</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-1014265"><em>Badwater @ 141</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>
P-Funk playing at the inaugural.  That’s gotta be good.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>If George Clinton had been running the country for the last 6 1/2 years, we’d be in MUCH better shape. …
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>If Edwards is elected then maybe he’ll get Delbert McClinton to perform. Not funk, but not quite Clinton either, so it’s all good.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014839</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 00:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1014250&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;RonD @ 126&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1014179&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;rwcole @ 60&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
If attacked again with deaths in the thousands- Americans will be scared shitless and will tend to swallow the bullshit thrown at em- or so it seems to me.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree…and I’m not alone, From &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Franks#Statements_on_nuclear_attack_against_the_United_States&quot;&gt;General Tommy Franks:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;“It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world – it may be in the United States of America – that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Brought to you by the former Commander of Central command.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Jeez, that guy can’t speak at all. Look at that glop of a paragraph!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What he means to say is: the possibility of a weapon of mass destruction killing hundreds of thousands of Americans and the fear that our current government won’t be able to prevent that destruction might cause Americans to begin to doubt our government.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Fear —&gt; Doubt —&gt; Gov. Crumbles&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, all we need to do is stop being afraid and Fight Fight Fight! We always have and we’ve always succeeded. The only difference now is that our biggest threat is from the president and the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1014250"><em>RonD @ 126</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-1014179"><em>rwcole @ 60</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>
If attacked again with deaths in the thousands- Americans will be scared shitless and will tend to swallow the bullshit thrown at em- or so it seems to me.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I agree…and I’m not alone, From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Franks#Statements_on_nuclear_attack_against_the_United_States">General Tommy Franks:</a></p>
<blockquote><p>“It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world – it may be in the United States of America – that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Brought to you by the former Commander of Central command.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Jeez, that guy can’t speak at all. Look at that glop of a paragraph!</p>
<p>What he means to say is: the possibility of a weapon of mass destruction killing hundreds of thousands of Americans and the fear that our current government won’t be able to prevent that destruction might cause Americans to begin to doubt our government.</p>
<p>Fear —&gt; Doubt —&gt; Gov. Crumbles</p>
<p>So, all we need to do is stop being afraid and Fight Fight Fight! We always have and we’ve always succeeded. The only difference now is that our biggest threat is from the president and the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy.</p>
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		<title>By: MarktheSpark</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014807</link>
		<dc:creator>MarktheSpark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 00:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014807</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jane– the best part of your piece is the admission that Leahy and the other Demo. phony opposition &lt;strike&gt;enablers&lt;/strike&gt; collaborators now bear direct responsibility for these war crimes, torture, theft, destruction of the rule of law in the US, etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So when do the netroots stop supporting the phony Demo “opposition” &amp; start to support a 3rd party that might actually do something to stop this fascist juggernaut?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane– the best part of your piece is the admission that Leahy and the other Demo. phony opposition <strike>enablers</strike> collaborators now bear direct responsibility for these war crimes, torture, theft, destruction of the rule of law in the US, etc.</p>
<p>So when do the netroots stop supporting the phony Demo “opposition” &amp; start to support a 3rd party that might actually do something to stop this fascist juggernaut?</p>
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		<title>By: peony</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014592</link>
		<dc:creator>peony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014592</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1014143&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Titanyum @ 26&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;It seems the cauldron in which the Bush Administration cooked the books and boiled their enemies is starting to spring a few leaks. Eventually, truth will rise above falsehood and the whole sordid mess will become obvious to all of us. It takes messengers like Jane to open our eyes and make us focus on the morass. Unpleasant as this may be, it is the first step in rectifying those grievous misdeeds.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Truth crushed to earth will rise again…” MLK&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1014143"><em>Titanyum @ 26</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>It seems the cauldron in which the Bush Administration cooked the books and boiled their enemies is starting to spring a few leaks. Eventually, truth will rise above falsehood and the whole sordid mess will become obvious to all of us. It takes messengers like Jane to open our eyes and make us focus on the morass. Unpleasant as this may be, it is the first step in rectifying those grievous misdeeds.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>“Truth crushed to earth will rise again…” MLK</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn from California</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014399</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn from California</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014399</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I called the offices of Boxer, Feinstein and my Representative.  Boxer’s office said that they’d received “a few calls” about the NYTimes article.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just a few?  More people should call.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I called the offices of Boxer, Feinstein and my Representative.  Boxer’s office said that they’d received “a few calls” about the NYTimes article.</p>
<p>Just a few?  More people should call.</p>
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		<title>By: LS</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014366</link>
		<dc:creator>LS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014366</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1014305&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;rwcole @ 167&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Does Wilson live in New Mexico?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yup.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1014305"><em>rwcole @ 167</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Does Wilson live in New Mexico?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yup.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014330</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/04/torture-its-all-the-rage/#comment-1014330</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So how many the article’s authors - SCOTT SHANE, DAVID JOHNSTON and JAMES RISEN - would Fitzgerald want to send to jail? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/03/AR2007100302000.html&quot;&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....02000.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Apparently a shield law that would protect the Dana Priest’s - the leaks on the TSP and blacksites etc., will also protect Iraqi spies and child pornographers and we need to be very afraid. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Plus, since &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The bill does not even purport to exclude domestic terrorists, gangs or pedophiles. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;he’s sure that Congress won’t want to endorse it.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Domestic terrorists, gangs and pedophiles - um, isn’t that pretty much a definition of the Republicans in Congress and the Bush Administration?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Trust us” isn’t really a great sales pitch for a Dept of Justice that embraces, solicits, refuses to prosecute, and invokes State Secrets to cover up torture.   Maybe he’ll want to go with: “Hey, don’t vote for that shield law or we’ll help render you off to Syria for torture.” &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not that DOJ does that kind of thing. After all, they find torture abhorrent, right? Wouldn’t want to leak out classified info that maybe they don’t, actually. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Kinda makes you wonder if someone at DOJ though Abhorrent was a collaborative effort of “Body by Jake” and the CIA - kind of a torture guy’s response to the Pilates Punisher with a little better research behind the punishment part?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So how many the article’s authors &#8211; SCOTT SHANE, DAVID JOHNSTON and JAMES RISEN &#8211; would Fitzgerald want to send to jail? </p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/03/AR2007100302000.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/&#8230;..02000.html</a></p>
<p>Apparently a shield law that would protect the Dana Priest’s &#8211; the leaks on the TSP and blacksites etc., will also protect Iraqi spies and child pornographers and we need to be very afraid. </p>
<p>Plus, since </p>
<blockquote><p>The bill does not even purport to exclude domestic terrorists, gangs or pedophiles. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>he’s sure that Congress won’t want to endorse it.  </p>
<p>Domestic terrorists, gangs and pedophiles &#8211; um, isn’t that pretty much a definition of the Republicans in Congress and the Bush Administration?  </p>
<p>“Trust us” isn’t really a great sales pitch for a Dept of Justice that embraces, solicits, refuses to prosecute, and invokes State Secrets to cover up torture.   Maybe he’ll want to go with: “Hey, don’t vote for that shield law or we’ll help render you off to Syria for torture.” </p>
<p>?</p>
<p>Not that DOJ does that kind of thing. After all, they find torture abhorrent, right? Wouldn’t want to leak out classified info that maybe they don’t, actually. </p>
<p>Kinda makes you wonder if someone at DOJ though Abhorrent was a collaborative effort of “Body by Jake” and the CIA &#8211; kind of a torture guy’s response to the Pilates Punisher with a little better research behind the punishment part?</p>
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