I seem to recall Nancy Pelosi promising that Congress would really hop-to after they came back from recess to “fix” the shitty FISA bill that they supposedly got “hoodwinked” into by Mike McConnell:
Many provisions of this legislation are unacceptable, and although the bill has a six-month sunset clause, I do not believe the American people will want to wait that long before corrective action is taken.
So according to Stoller, this is what we get:
I just got word from the ACLU that a new and bad FISA bill is about to be unveiled tomorrow at 1:30pm by Steny Hoyer in a press-only briefing. Telecom immunity is not in the bill, but the Senate is pressing hard for that to be included.
The dynamic in the House is really odd. Hoyer and Emanuel seem to be pushing for a FISA capitulation to ‘protect the freshmen’, even though the freshmen understand their constituents don’t want a FISA capitulation. No one will go on the record on any of this, and Emanuel and Hoyer aren’t voting for the capitulation, only orchestrating its passage.
This is not a surprise, though it is amusing that Pelosi’s promises to ‘fix’ the temporary FISA bill passed in August are as worthless as they appeared at the time.
What’s weird is that no one wants this capitulation except Hoyer and Emanuel. The Bush Dogs are going to vote for it, since that’s what they would do, but they would vote for a better bill. The freshmen don’t feel politically threatened by a better bill, and know that standing up to Bush is popular. It’s like the House is operating on conservative autopilot.
“Let’s do it for the freshmen?” Right. And I’ve only had two beers, officer, and I’ll love you in the morning.
The ACLU was completely cut out of the process — which indicates that when the bill shows up there’s probably going to be some real bullshit in it. Doesn’t leave them (or us) any time to organize against it.
And just so folks won’t forget what a brilliant strategist Rahm Emanuel is, I’m resurrecting the YouTube above. An oldie but always a goodie.
Related posts:
- Steny Hoyer: “Public Option May Have to Go” for Health Bill Passage
- Rahm: White House Open to Dropping Public Option
- FISA v AUMF: Bush Wiretap Program Based on Lies
- Can Skittles help fix the PATRIOT Act and FISA?
- Speak Out: Write Letters To Your Local Papers and Urge Members of Congress to Vote “No” On Supplemental
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yo
Skunks.
Sheer Fuckery!!!
Godamn it. Get some spine. F**K The DLC too.
More cave-ins to Mr. 26%! Hooray…More pissed away civil liberties.
-GSD
Primary challenges for everyone involved in this sellout. Howie, find us some real Democrats in those districts, stat.
you guys are fast.
Feces, FISA, Fo-sho, Fum
I smell the blood of a wigglish Rahm
WTF. Just, WTF.
So no one is supposed to notice if we get hosed up the wing wang again?
My party, the high colonic party.
Rposted from below (for the benefit of CTuttle)
Well friends,
There’s evidence that I fell for a big hoax. As I read ET’s comments on the last thread, the “tape” that I referred to was a comedy paste-up. I won’t know for sure because the show which talked about it has been pre-empted for a sports event.
Ugh.. unbelievable. Who the frack are these people???? Do they ever press their advantage???… which is widening, pun intended, now that Senator Wide Stance is STAYING (I was in an meeting and narrowly stopped myself from bursting out laughing when I saw that one on my PC) When will these people figure out that torture, domestic spying and disappearing people are NOT negotiable. Ever.
And I got such a pleasant anti-FISA letter from my critter too. Guess I’m going to have to write her again and make sure she’s still on track to oppose it even if her leadership won’t.
BigMitch @ 11
What game could that be…??? ;-)
Eureka Springs @ 10
I may have to borrow that one, ES.
Well, I can image that Steve Cohen is one of the freshman who would not like to have this “done for him” a great BA choice, btw.
Bush JAR at 31%, lowest ever according to AP-Ipsos, but gosh darn, continuing a gradual decline since Democrats took over in January–the Congress is at a whopping 22%.
When are the Democrats gonna realize that 22% is about THEM?
Jane this further illustrates, to me at least, that there is not more than three molecules of difference between the Democratic Leadership and the Republicans. It is depressing. Seems it will take just as long to restore a democracy as it would to form a new one. A little OT, but what would happen if 5 million Verizon subscribers canceled their contracts? Would that affect the stock?
The bill sounds like just what I expect from a Rahm-Stenny lovefest.
bg @ 16
Because in a real sense, it is not. Individual congressmen/women enjoy good approval ratings from their constitutents. Everyone hates congress, but loves their congressman, according to the old saw. (P.S. I don’t even like my congressman.)
hate2haggle @ 17
Three molecules? You’re being overtly conservative…!!!
Not only is Rahm missing a piece of his finger, but he’s missing a piece of his brain. As are soooooo many of our so-called Democratic Congress people. If 2008 doesn’t show some vast improvement on the Democratic side of the aisle then what is to become of this country? What hope is left? What, indeed, does this country truly represent, except a reprehensible shadow of its former self?
Jane Hamsher @ 14
When I read “high colonic” I hear “My Sharona.”
Which is a shame, because I liked that song.
bg @ 16
Gonna go lower too.. fast. AP-Ipsos was the last poll done before the s-chip debacle. People are saying that the veto may cut into his base directly.
My party seems bent on making things hard on this 39 year straight Democratic ticket voter. I’m disappointed.
“Let’s do it for the freshmen?”
Kind of makes them concern trolls for new Democrats.
Valley Girl @ 15
Me thinks the freshman Steve Cohen may appreciate hearing from we BA donors that we’d greatly appreciate him telling Rahn to pound sand. Anyone have a handly linky to Rep. Cohen’s email address?
CTuttle @ 20
I don’t really agree. I think that the difference, ideologically is huge: namely that many Congressional rethugs are ideologically driven, and totally party-loyal to the point that they’re perfectly willing to go off a cliff lockstep with an insane shrub. On the other hand, Steny and Rahm wouldn’t know an ideal if it struck them in the patotie, and the dems as a whole have no concept of what party loyalty means. The rethugs are fascist ideologue sharks. We (or rather much of our party leadership), on the other hand, are just spineless opportunistic cowards. I don’t know which is worse, but there is a fundamental difference. Not that such a difference helps us, or the republic.
Not only is Rahm missing a piece of his finger,…
I’m thinking that maybe that’s not all that got lopped off… (think lower).
The Wrom and Steny show.
BTW, The ‘program” Jane Harmon was all worked up in a tizzy about a couple of weeks ago, the one Dem House members read about first in the WAPO which allows DHS and local police without a warrant to use what was once only foreign defense surveillance satellite and drone surveillance methods. It was scheduled to begin October 1. So bend over, slap yourself, and say hello from your bedrooms and living rooms America. Chertoff and Barney Fife want to know us all much better than we know ourselves.
Blub @ 27
“I don’t belong to an organized Party, I’m a Democrat!” *g*
Wrong Emmanuel.
-GSD
Is there a difference between “high fuckery” and “low fuckery”?
jayt @ 28
Is this some kind of an anti-Semitic joke?
(Just kidding!)
jayt @ 28
Alright, Lorena… How’s the E-coli scare going…???
GSD @ 31
like it! brand it!
If Steny or Rahm ever become Speaker we are screwed.
I would like to see a large caucus (black caucus perhaps?) lobby and vote as a group next congress for new leadership. Artur Davis for Speaker, anyone?
We had an interview with Pete McClosky, former Republican, former US House Representative from CA.
He would be a great guest here at FDL. He is quite articulate on why he could no longer be a Republican. He is very disgusted with the President.
bg @ 37
OT – John Dean will be on KO tonight…
bg @ 37
He is an unvarnished anti-Semite. I offer this opinion based on very reliable evidence.
So when do we get to learn what’s in this new FISA bill, and what to insist removal of? Like, the bad bill from last August
* gave retroactive immunity to all parties, individual and corporate, who had broken the law
*lowered the standard from “probable cause” to “reasonable belief”
*took oversight away from the FISA court and gave it to the AG and McConnell.
Are any of these elements in the new bill?
Any other dastardly elements?
Bob in HI
Just on the SoCalACLU conference call with John Dean. He is far more optimistic generally than I am. But I got to ask him a question. Will Abu and Addington and Yoo and the rest ever go before the world court for war crimes?
His answer . . . . they probably don’t have plans and won’t have plans to travel abroad just like Rummy is constricted in where he can go lest he get arrested.
Hadn’t thought of that. He didn’t say that they weren’t liable, but that they shouldn’t plan on European vacations.
BigMitch @ 33
Hey, BigMitch,
Glad you’re here. Hope you don’t mind when we argue.
Bob in HI
Looking at John Dean on Olbermann. This guy speaks and I listen.
And thus you see what I have railed against again and again. You see why it is just crap to vote for more Democrats and donate to Democrats and make phone calls to your Rep or Senator about what you expect of them, etc. THEY DON’T LISTEN. They do NOT care what you say. It bothers them only the way you at home are bothered when you get pelted by phone calls all evening or day. It is annoying, like a mosquito buzzing invisibly about your ear.
Sure, some staffer takes “note” of your comment and later the Rep or Senator is given a synopsis, they hmpf and then, totally disconnected from all the phone calls and letters and emails and faxes, do EXACTLY what their advisors and corporate lobbyists TELL them the “people” want, what the “electorate” want. Then you all STILL give them more money and STILL vote for them. They see their pundit/advisor/lobbyist is right because they don’t take it on the chin no matter what they do (or don’t do).
The new FISA bill will be passed and it will be just as bad, just as unconstitutional, just as ANTI-constitutional as it was before and Telcos will CONTINUE to spy for the government and all those lawsuits will die a quiet death as the DEMOCRATIC congress knocks the wind out of their sails. There is simply no money in letting those lawsuits continue (no money for THEM).
And they will STILL be re-elected!
RevDeb @ 42
Heh, Paraguay is mighty accommodating…!!! ;-)
Hey Big Mitch
to salute the memory of the great Steve Gilliard:
Fuck the Fucking Yankees.
(and you thought I wouldn’t go back and read the rest of last night’s thread. Hah.)
bobschacht @ 43
Hell, that’s why I am here!
John Dean saying that the statute of limitations on torture issues should be extended another five or ten years.
CTuttle @ 46
They’re going to need half the country to hide them all there.
Pelosi needs to stand up to Hoyer and Rahm. Publically, if necessary.
If she continues to let those twerps run over her, her leadership is useless.
I hope the next Democratic president gives John Dean a full pardon.
I do too.
lahoma.
BigMitch @ 48
Bob, Mitch is a glutton for punishment…!!! *g*
So, RevD — I don’t have to worry about you losing any love for the Yankees, eh? If that’s the case, I hope the cubbies win in the N.L. so the Yanks can help them continue their streak.
yellowdogD @ 36
How about the Progressive Caucus? They’re the largest caucus, but also maybe in becoming large they have become too diffuse, and no longer have much focus. But either Lynn Woolsey or Barbara Lee, co-chairs of the PC, ought to be part of the new leadership team in place of Emanuel. Pelosi used to be in the PC, but hasn’t acted like it since the day she became Speaker.
Bob in HI
BigMitch @ 54
*sigh* No love lost…!!! *g*
1,614 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Ok folks, where the fuck has Pelosi been for the last few weeks…has she lost the battle with the A*P*C-DLCers? It seems that Dave Obey, Conyers and others are gettin’ more face time than Nancy, what’s up with that? She’s turned out ta be pathetic and I think that Mrs. Clinton and her war macj=hine have rolled right over her.
KEEP THE FAITH AND REMEMBER NOT ALL FASCISTS WEAR RED!!
BigMitch @ 54
From what I’ve seen so far it looks like the Rockies are going to kick the crap out of whoever wins the AL title—probably the Red Sox
Remind me again. What was the point of putting these twits in the majority if they’re going to behave just like the previous Congress did?
CTuttle @ 56
That chicken is not yet hatched, even if Ys wer 6-0 vs. Cleveland Native Americans during the regular season.
BigMitch @ 48
Then go downstairs, where I left you a note in EPU-ville. :-)
Bob in HI
NorskeFlamethrower @ 57
I need some more Napalm, Norske, I’m running low…!!! 8-)
Big Mitch- a dear friend of mine escaped Berlin as a toddler (his parents left with him and sister in tow). Family members killed in the Holocaust. He has told me that the tactics that are used by the current Israeli govt, esp. re: attacks on Lebanon are exactly the same that the Nazis used. Does this make him an anti-Semite?
NorskeFlamethrower @ 57
Good comment.
This pissed me off so badly that I just quckly put together an email that went to Pelosi, Reid, Rahm, Hoyer and my Sen. Wyden. Here’s what I wrote:
I am writing to express in the most sincere form possible that you (as in the Democrats) are losing my vote. As an Independent, and someone who despises everything that Bush/Cheney stand for, I voted Democrat across the board in 06. What have I gotten for that? NOTHING. Except for ridicule from my friends and family that you would act differently than the GOP. You are capitulators, triangulators and spineless. You seem to believe that this fear-based behavior will win you the 08 elections, when in fact, standing up to Bush, ending the war (cut the damn funding already), reinstating our Constitutional rights and demanding integrity from our govt would only extend the seats you might win. Instead you’re approval ratings are lower than Bush’s and you are proving to all the doubters that you really aren’t much different than the GOP. If this continues I will be forced NOT to vote for the Dems next year even if that means not voting at all. I don’t know how else to implore you TO ACT as you promised you would last year. Do the right thing and stop playing games with our troops and their families, our Constitution, and our wallets. Sincerely, rat bastahd
I’m dead serious about not voting too, as sad as it is. I regularly posit to my govt and history students how important voting is, but I’ve had enough with these spineless mf’ers. Just what in jah’s name are they afraid of? It’s so maddening! (I added to Wyden’s email that I thought he had shown more courage and integrity then most of his colleagues, but it wasn’t enough.)
Nothing quite says your civil liberties are for sale like an ATT lobby and the love they receive from Wrong and Steny. Maybe we should simply write a letter from FDL which says, OK, how much?
“Let’s do it for the freshman” is the new “We just don’t have the votes”….do you get the feeling that both parties meet together on weekends and make this stuff up.
There was this from August 9 …
NGA – U2
We’re drowning in alphabet soup and every time you turn around, another spy op is discovered.
But fear not, maybe by the middle of 2008, the economy will have reached 30% inflation rate. Or earlier … Threats to China only elicited their counter-threat that they could dump their dollar reserves. They may already have divested themselves of $40 Bn.
The US dollar continues to decline, thanks to Ben the Barnacle. He may have averted a credit crisis for the banks. Has there been any tricle down to beleagured mortgage owners? Meanwhile, that liquidity is really hidden inflation.
There will be more FUD — fear, uncertainty, doubt — before the end of the year.
If the dollar tanks, one won’t have to worry about FISA or much else — a bankrupt government won’t be able to play more spy games. Say hello, banana republic.
Frank Probst @ 59
PRECISELY! There IS NO DIFFERENCE on ANY substantive matter. Only differences at the margins. They are just as much a disaster for the country and the world as the GOP. They basically stand for the SAME THINGS, support the SAME THINGS, vote the SAME WAY. Every time.
Mad Dogs @ 32
Fuckery is in the eye of the beholder.
The Democrats are selling out so fast and so often it is really getting hard to keep up.
away all day and come back to THIS??!!
“orchestrating its passage”???
bullshit kabuki is what it is.
what does pelosi have to say? is she going to provide cover for the procedural fuckery again? (i believe christy had a joke about this that involved KY?)
arrrgh!
Rat Bastahd,
haven’t seen you around for awhile!
Howdy.
ccmask @ 67
Their staff and the lobbyists do…!!! 8-(
All people want and deserve a homeland.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 74
Brooklyn?
moose @ 68
40 Bil is a drop in the bucket to the Chinese 4-5 trillion the could dump…!!!
katherine Graham Cracker @ 25
what is this, some kind of hazing stunt?
ccmask @ 75
Never been to NY. Of course some folks think you need shots and a passport to visit Oklahoma. *g*
1,616 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Valley Girl and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Bless yer pure heart, sister Valley Girl, I just have no more patience to be “genteel” with BigMitch and his ilk but I find it frustrating to the point of anger that those who oppose the fascism of the L*k*d and the Israeli government hafta either be Jewish or quote Jewish sources to counter arguments of anti-semitism because we oppose the foreign policy of another nation state. So I don’t think the Mitches of this world are worth one more once of your considerable intellectual energy…jest sayin’.
KEEP THE FAITH AND KEEP YER EYES ON THE PRIZE!!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
Youmust go sometime. It is wonderful. A real melting pot and loads of fun.
Bustednuckles @ 72
Hi Busted! Yeah, been swamped. Between going back to work, playing taxi cab for my daughter and all her activities, and planning for our year abroad, I have been unable to spend much time here. Snow on the hilltops today!
OK Mods, WHERE”S MY POST??!!
MODzilla: Refresh yourself, it’s there.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 82
I see it at #79 norske.
Hugh @ 70
We’ve been fucked in the eye. I’m beholden.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 82
Careful, Norske…!!! *g*
NorskeFlamethrower @ 82
Gettin pretty jumpy there bro.
BigMitch @ 48
I was beginning to suspect that!
valley girl – are you still around? i want to go OT about cat brushes.
I think I’m soloing out here. We have a two party system and some who renamed themselves but still vote for one of the two parties. It makes them feel we have a three party system and a few minor players.
In reality, we have a ONE party system. It proves itself over and over and I seem to resist reality. I think I’ll go make dinner – some Cajun style thingy. I feel like a hamster in a cage running myself silly, around and around and around on that stupid wheel.
Fern @ 87
We need an appropriate tune on this thread…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe7yOccqdxI
selise @ 88
A noble topic.
QuakerGirl @ 89
Hey QG, make up some etoufee!
moose @ 68
Well, congress is in bed with the industrial military complex and refuses to reign in King George the Neocon and his warmongering Imperialistic dreams. So how else does the world stop the One Eyed Cyclops? Cut off funding the United States debt.
Dollar’s double blow from Vietnam and Qatar
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/mon…..iet103.xml
Vietnam is planning to cut its purchases of US Treasuries and other dollar bonds, raising fears that Asian central banks with control over two thirds of the world’s foreign reserves may soon join the flight from US assets.
Fears of dollar collapse as Saudis take fright
China threatens `nuclear option’ of dollar sales
Jump off the deranged bull now
I am here. Happy to talk OT about cat brushes, if FDLers don’t think “this is not an appropriate topic for this thread”. ;)
Maybe we could find an older but still live thread to talk about cat brushes.
Loo Hoo. @ 49
John Dean saying that the statute of limitations on torture issues should be extended another five or ten years.
An important and valid point.
Now if there was just a Department – let’s call it a Department of, ummm, Justice!! which might actually prosecute such charges….
Fern @ 91
‘
well, yes… and i think i have nothing further to say about fisa. well, other than FUCK. FUCK. FUCK.
i’m usually pretty inarticulate… but it’s worse when i’m pissed.
You may call me paranoid. But the impression here is that the fix is in. I mean if all these Democratic movers and shakers can claim that they didn’t know what was happening with intel during the run-up to Iraq, how in the world do we think we have a clue as to what’s going on?
KO Reporting that Freddie the Brain Thompson resurrected the Soviet Union in a speech today- meant Russia apparently-
Valley Girl @ 94
Hell, jam on. I’m sick of some of the same old shit night after night.
and, BTW, my info about cat brushes came co-incidentally with going to CT for Lamont campaign.
rwcole @ 98
Is he that lazy…??? ;-)
Valley Girl @ 94
thanks! lead on… i will follow you to whatever thread you think most appropriate (i haven’t caught up on today’s threads yet).
katherine Graham Cracker @ 25
These guys are useless.
More AND BETTER Dems in 2008
rwcole @ 98
Delightful. He could be president and you would have a foreign policy that was only a few odd decades out of date.
BigMitch @ 48
And that (and stuff like that) is why I almost don’t go anywhere else but the Lake any more. My blog reading starts — and usually ends — here. The breadth of knowledge, erudite commentary, spirited arguments, humor and snark, aren’t as good anywhere else as they are right here!
rwcole @ 97
Hey, it took me years to drop the Soviet nomenclature. Cut Freddie a break. He may be running for prez but he’s out of speechmaking practice. /snark
O/t -
Wrt the death of the woman in the Phoenix airport:
http://www.democraticundergrou…..15;3017027
It’s not smart to piss off a family with major bucks to spend on investigating the truth of events.
Sorry…..I can’t get behind the firewall to link the entire article. :-(
Bob in Hawaii,
I read nothing in your post downstairs that gives offense. I agree that there is a problem when a dominant population treats another as sub-human, but this is what happens in war. Whose fault is it that there is no peace. (Please don’t answer: I don’t have much time, and there’s a ball game on.)
I do object to assertions, such as that made by SandraO that Israel should be country just like ours. I don’t know why she would be critical of Bush’s efforts to make-over Iraq in the model of Jefferson democracy, but want to make over Israel in America’s image. As I said, down below:
BigMitch @ 148
okay, anyone who wants to talk about cat brushes, let’s go here:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..y-wouldnt/
I don’t think that such a discussion would do much damage to Fred. :
We’ve been going on and on about the House, but that line from Stoller that the Senate is pushing for telecom immunity really bothers me.
The only kind of immunity I want to hear about is where one of those telecoms comes to the Judiciary Committee and makes a deal: we’ll tell you everything about who asked/encouraged/demanded that we break the law by conducting searches without a warrant signed by a judge, and in return you give us immunity from prosecution.
I’m sure they got leaned on big time — “Nice company you’ve got here.It’d be a shame if something happened to it. Now then, we need some help . . .” I want to know who leaned on them, how hard, and I want the documentation to back it up.
And I want THOSE parties drummed out of office, law licenses revoked, criminal and civil suits filed, and their lives otherwise made to suffer humiliations galore.
But that kind of immunity is offered only to the first customer. First telecom gets immunity; everyone else can prepare their legal defenses.
Instead, we’ve got this wimpy mess from the Senate. According to some of the legal arguments made public thus far, the SF area AT&T office is in this up to their eyeballs . . . which says to me that DiFi is involved in this immunity deal.
Mumbling to myself as I soak my head in a bucket of ice ….third party…third party…glub…glub…third party…
This shows that either a) fools like Hoyer and Emanuel are so damaqed that they think that Dems can’t win if they show they are progressive, even with abundant evidence to the contrary from every poll, or b) they really are low-life corporate Republican lite anti-progressives who are simply not on our side.
Jeez, think of the
childrenfreshman!Rahm, Joe Lieberman and HRC have very close connections to the DLC. What if anything does this say?
CTuttle @ 101
And did he have to ask the audience for applause again?
Amen Reverend.
Peterr @ 110
Yeah, I suspect that too, as it wends it’s way to the Ninth…!!!
Dinner break. See ya in a little.
this is nuts … count me among the dumbfounded and pissed off … fooled me again as I started to think maybe there was a diff between the thugs and the dumbs. now i see it just seems to be diff in fund-raising schemes.
I keep saying it, we are not gonna get anyhting done as long as we call it “warrantless wiretap”, and “violates the constitution”, or whatever they use
we must and they MUST use phrases like;
“stealing my information”
“spying on my daughter, listening to my intimate conversations with my wife”
“stealing information I have aquired over years for my successcul bussiness”
“why do they refuse to demonstrate that they are not stealing?”
“the only reason they want to get information without anyone to check if it is for national security is because they want to steal”
THAT is the way this discussion MUST BE FRAMED
and we MUST use terms like that when we call our representatives, make sure you call the republcans, MAKE CERTAIN you tell them;
“how could you allow them to steal my information, why don’t they want someone to make sure what they are doing isn’t for their own private gain?”
this is the only way we are going to make any headway
HRC isn’t fit to polish George McGovern’s shoes.
Looking at Olbermann and hearing about Rudy comparing Clinton to McGovern.
Peterr @ 110
Reason # 1 for Immunity: Can’t get those political donations if you put those who give ‘em in jail.
Immoral of the story: Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.lee5 @ 117
Astute observation, in regards to the DLC…!!!
I dunno, do we need to give some more business to the lady that makes the rubber stamps?
It sure as hell is starting to look that way.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 97
Have you seen “Why We Fight” a film by Eugene Jarecki?
Eisenhower’s fear come true. “In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.”
The U.S. exports two moneymakers, weapons and war. The government needs us to build it and pay for it, and the impoverished highschool grad to fight over there (that’s why poverty is necessary). And the think tanks make shit up to create a cause for the american public to believe in. Like WMD’s, terrorists, bringing democracy, stop genocide….What’s the point of weapons, aircraft, submarines, and warships if you don’t use them?
The Democratic party to us Progressives seems spineless and right-leaning simply because the Bushies and their ilk have managed to wrestle the Republican party away from moderate conservatives and bring it so far right that the Democrats in standing up to the Bushies also seem right of center. Meaning, the political spectrum in this country, so gloriously left of center for so long (except in the Executive) and progressive, has been shifted to the far right. HRC is considered a left-wing fringe candidate by some Bushie pundits! True, the Dems have capitulated on FISA and other measures, but it takes time for things to change-for the shift to move back to the center/left. Get a dem in the WH, take over Congress, and then more change will take place. But to shift it back to the left with a razor-thin majority is impossible.
YANGON, Myanmar (AP) — Hoping to deflect outrage over images of soldiers gunning down protesters, Myanmar’s hard-line leader announced Thursday he is willing to talk with detained democracy activist Aung San Suu Kyi — but only if she stops calling for international sanctions.
Geez, I step away to live my life and come back to this????
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!!!
To quote you Pelosi, we’re gonna drain your swamp too!!!
Bring it on Cindy!!! Pelosi, go suck on one of your south sea pearls.
HA! The Republican National Committee wins WPITW for the disastrous convention logo!
There aren’t enough progressive democrats in Congress, yet. There are few progressive democrats in positions of authority. Majority Leader Pelosi is a disgrace to her San Francisco constituents. She is not representing them.
Howie Klein and Blue America are our best bet. Its unfortunate that some fakers like McNerney got in on our dime, but that’s the breaks. Its going to take more work. Every blue or Bush dog needs a primary challenger. We’ve got nothing to lose.
Blub @ 35
hehe…I’ve played with that one before, except spelled it “Rhrong” Emmanuel
Get Tough @ 124
All three branches, if Kennedy is the swing vote…!!! 8-(
I want Pelosi, Rahm, Hoyer, and Reid, out.
dakine01 @ 127
I would love to be skillful enough to photo shop that image heading into a restroom stall.
Darkblack?
Bustednuckles @ 122
She makes some mighty fine stamps now.
I want Cheney and Bush and all of their cronies held accountable for torture and lying us into an illegal invasion and occupation.
ok….this is REALLY the last time I’m getting sucked into this.
Mitch, I’ve said it before….you’re a patient man. Too patient.
I have this to say to all you pious, self-righteous, judgers of Israel….ALL OF US, except OKk and Lahoma, are here now because of a certain 16th century, Mayflower-style “zionism” of our very own; mor brutal than anything Israel ever did.
So STFU about Israel….unless you’re prepared to vacate your “historic houses,” et al., and give it all back to the Native Americans.
Or is that “different”?
Angry Black Bitch is on topic for this thread . . .
Do click through — she’s in fine form.
raven @ 125
That means she is still alive…!!! It was up for grabs on her status…!!! *s*
I want Bush, Homeland Security, and Fema held accountable for allowing American citizens to dehydrate, starve, and die during the Katrina aftermath.
Eureka Springs @ 29
Careful, there. There might be some Ren & Stimpy fans here, and they might take offense at your equating Emanuel and Hoyer with their heroes. ;-)
LS @ 134
Don’t forget the phone companies. And anyone who thumbs his nose at a Congressional subpoena should be arrested without delay.
CTuttle @ 130
Very true. Stevens is still fighting, bless the old timer. His firey dissent in that big Antitrust case (can’t think of the name off the top of my head) really put the screws to Scalito and Robmas. He was an antitrust lawyer, and to watch him just take apart their reasoning was sensational. But he is ready to go, and so is Ginsburg. Souter and Breyer are no spring chickens, either!
If Glenn Greenwald came over here in person and said:
[empahsis mine]
would the tea-party faithful of the Donkey Exasperation Society consider him a ‘troll’, too?
hackworth @ 140
Include Delay.
oddmommy @ 135
Yes, please, oddmommy…if we only had had a better immigration program in place when y’all showed up in your boats, none of this would have happened. My folks wouldn’t have had to freakin’ walk to Arkansas.
Please leave the keys in the ignitions and under the doors, thank you!
Peterr,
That is one lady I would like to meet.
You are the only one I have ever seen that knows of, and visits regularly besides myself.
Shadowstalker @ 144
If ifs and buts were candies and nuts we could all have a swell Kwanza!
punaise @ 8
In the last few years, Chicago has seen one of its last remaining home-grown merchants cease operations (Carson Pirie Scot) and another lose its name in the city of its origin (Marshall Field). It has suffered damage to its formerly significant business niche in accounting and auditing (Arthur Andersen). It has abandoned the homeowner base of its tax structure to the predatory like of WAMU and far more Podunkville outfits than theirs. It has sold off highways to god only knows who. And I could go on and on.
But the surest sign that any sense of a local polity there has utterly collapsed is that they have not managed to put on life support the political fortunes of a blockhead like Rahm Emmanuel who can’t even get Congressmen from his own backyard elected in a year when Democrats statewide are winning everything in sight, and spared the national party any necessity of doing it.
That is all.
oddmommy @ 135
Oddmommy, at no juncture do I ever consider myself pious or self righteous, I do disagree with some of the Lik*d’s stances such as the wall, illegal settlements, etc…! I have no dog in the fight… I merely attempt to discern the dire consequences of everybody’s actions…!!! *g*
sporkovat @ 142
There aren’t any substantive differences simply because of the razor-thin majority in Congress, and the Bushies constant, “see, Congress sucks, too” mantra when everyone knows that the repubs are following the Bushies lead. Greenwald is a gem, and he makes a point, but if the Repubs ran the cuckoo’s nest, Blackwater would still be gunning down the non-predestines, Gonzales would be running the DOJ, Rove would still be knocking around sniffing after Dubya, and countless hearings bringing out the deplorable acts of the Bushies would not be known.
The torture story is our only hope right now. Rove – gone, Rumsfeld – gone, Gonzo – gone. MSM is all over the torture story.
Leahy, go get the rest of them.
Blackwater – get them.
Pat Tillman – 3 shots to the forehead.
I want my country back.
Dan Abrams is “ashamed” of Gonzo – good sign.
Shadowstalker @ 144
Hindsight is 20/20. Native Americans should have killed any and all visitors that came within range.
do any of these Democrats have, know about, heard of, or could find a pair if they were handed to them in an embossed fed ex package.
Rahm, Steny
just die. have a heart attack. resign. get syphilis.
DO SOMETHING that helps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LS @ 138
I want my tax dollars to stop funding corporate welfare, the pentagon budget cut in half, and the Feds to stop propping up the investment banks. Oh, and not pay for congress or the pres and vp healthcare, let them go to the ER like the other 47 million americans do without healthcare.
Bustednuckles @ 145
I know Suzanne is a regular visitor there.
I also know that ABB does get out and about in the St. Louis area, so if you’re ever out that way, check to see whether she’s got some meeting or party or such coming up.
Valley Girl @ 94
If y’all start talking about cat brushes, I guarantee that a baseball discussion is going to break out.
Just sayin’
burnspbesq @ 155
No worries – the all-important cat brush conversation was taken to an old thread.
burnspbesq @ 155
go for a two-fer with Cat(fish) Hunter, Andres “Big Cat” Gallaraga and Jim “Mudcat” Grant. throw in Jim Kaat for good measure.
RockPaperScizzors @ 153
Damn right! If private health care is so good, why don’t they sign up for it and pay for it themselves? They can opt for reduced benefits every year to afford their premiums just like me.
BigMitch @ 108
Thank you. That doesn’t excuse such behavior, however. And it is yet another reason never to rush to war, as Bush/Cheney did in Iraq.
If you don’t want answers, don’t ask questions!
The fault lies with leaders who drag their people into war for the wrong reasons.
When I was in Grad school, I had a kind of Leon Uris/Tanakh view of Jewish exceptionalism, and thought that Israel was “special”, and therefore deserved a special dispensation. However, in the 40 years since then, I have seen the leaders of Israel abuse that “special” status many times, and now I wonder why Israel should not be held to the same standards of any other country, especially with respect to human rights. I was in Israel a year after the Six Day War, and since then, Israel has treated Palestine like the U.S. has treated American Indians: Divide, massacre some, conquer the rest, confine onto reservations, treat as second class citizens, etc. One Rachel Corrie was bad enough, but recently there’s been another incident almost identical. To me, there is no more romantic patina on Israel.
In fact, I think the whole idea of the two state solution is a mistake, on both sides. What is needed is a single state solution where Israeli and Palestinian work together as equals. If they did, there would be no more powerful and legitimate people in all of the Middle East, and the casus belli that has historically enflamed the Middle East would evaporate.
Yes, and did you see the answer by eCAHNomics @155? Anglicanism is not the reason for England’s existance. People who are not Anglicans are not treated as second-class citizens. As bad as things got in Ireland, the British Army did not cut the Irish Republic into small isolated Catholic islands, forcing Catholics to go through checkpoints every five miles when they go from home to work every day. This is really a bad comparison.
But here I am, once again, in EPU-ville. Gotta run upstairs.
Shalom,
Bob in HI
oddmommy @ 135
uh, yeah actually i think it is.
1) the genocide of the native american was far worse than anything that has happened to the palestinians.
2) the ethnic cleansing of the palestinians is happening right now. we can stop it. it doesn’t have to continue.
LS @ 134
Me too. Is there anything to say that they can’t be held to account after the November election? I’m pissed as hell, but I’m also wondering if the dems are taking it slow to win the presidency and the Congress more completely. I don’t understand Leahy, for example, willing to interview the new AG candidate after he said he wouldn’t without the documents he had requested. I guess, at this point, it doesn’t matter if the guilty are charged now or later. What does matter, though, is that funds be cut off for Iraq.
Loo Hoo. @ 161
I think Goldsmith told him something…big.
FYI, Senators who sold us out last time are here and House members are here. The Tyranny Caucus is back.
OPEN WIDE????
MORE LIKE: BEND OVER!!!!
.
I think Nancy is a figurehead Speaker; all the real work is being mishandled by Hoyer and Emanuel.
She ought to either resign the Speakership or start running the show for real, because the way it is now, it ain’t working.
I want Hoyer and Emanuel out of there. (I wouldn’t be surprised to learn they’re as dirty as anyone on the other side of the floor, either.)
LS @ 134
Obama says we ought to learn to get along with one another.
Hillary said we need MORE troops and we need to prepare for the ‘next war’ and she voted for the Kyl-Lieberman amendment declaring part of the Iranian military to be a terrorist organization.
John Edwards — Leadership America can live with
oddmommy @ 135
We’re not asking for the abolishment of either America or Israel. But it would be nice if both would behave nicer.
?Any chance to get some support behind a “Just Let It Die” movement, and so take advantage of that sunset clause?
Joo know:
so.
What people fail to realize is that Rahm is a Israel-firster. He is one of the biggest traitors in the Congress. Take a look at some of the legislation he is responsible for. He is very sneaky. And Hoyer I have nothing good to say about either. I am just so glad that firedoglake is finally focusing on issues that two years ago had me labeled as a “conspiracy theorist” and a kook. For example, I brought up the Desmond Tutu story and the vicious attacks on him by the ADL, AIPAC, and the JDL. Even the ridiculously named Southern Poverty Law Center attacked him. I hope everyone will start to pay attention to what Israel is doing and how they’ve used 9-11 and Iraq as cover to carry out genocide. The media focus solely on Iraq, just like Netanyahu and his Operation Clean Break discussed.
What is with these f*ing chickenshit dems??? Are there some names on the DC Madam’s list that we don’t know about? Some skeletons rattling around in closets? WTF???
Are we moving to a new phase in congress where bills are hatched and voted on in secret?
We would all be better off trying to influence the only party that matters. Perhaps if we all dropped party registrations they would notice.
Another, more logical thought:
Someone with the knowledge and skill to do so might just want to start attacking Hoyer now. Who is he getting money from, how many times has he voted to enable the war….
So far these fools haven’t had to pay any price for their duplicity. Now is far beyond the time to make them pay.