eCAHNomics says @143

I’ll up the ante–pretty sure both will do really evil things.

BTW, both are settler countries, as was Soth Africa. Don’t think it’s a coinky dink. Think the settler mentality poisons the soul.

This is a subject worthy of anthropologists exploring with some serious research. So many countries settled by colonial countries, superimposing themselves on the local culture, seem to go belly-up over time. The Dutch were in Indonesia 350 and twenty years after the Indonesians threw them out (along with the Dutch Indonesians) you would never know the Dutch had been there. South Africa has been reclaimed by the previous culture. Zimbabwe, the same. All were settled by a superimposing European people. Some were shorter periods of time such as India, Burma, Vietnam. There seems to be a pattern here. Any other input?

Not to forget the “Scotish Plantations” in Ireland, that bell hasn’t been stilled yet – take Ian Paisley – please Dog, take him before more harm is done (devil is even more welcome to have that soul). Presbyterian, my arse!!

Badwater @ 81 -

“Bush the Democratic incumbant”.

Faux noise screws up every other screen label…….why not that one?

Did they really misspell ‘incumbent’?

Oh well, at least they’re not a Conservative Bush Republican outfit.

…
Israel is a Jewish state. If you don’t like that, tough shit on you. But the fact is that it is not run by religious fanatics.

Then tell them to prove it by removing the West Bank settlements and stop trashing the area.

…
What is especially ironic is the fact that the religion of Judaism is unusual in that it has survived and indeed thrived in conditions of persecution. In Isreal, where this is not so strongly perceived, the religion is suffering. Jewish religious leaders outside Israel worry that the ethnic identity of “Israeli” will replace “Jewish,” to the detriment of the religion.

Is it inevitable a schism would develop between national identity and religion when they already allow non Jewish Israelis? How much homogeneity is required to maintain perpetual bliss?

Against this backdrop it would be funny to hear lefties saying Israel is run by religious fanatics, except for the fact that it lumps Israel with some rather evil regimes.

Like most Democracies it serves many interests and it just so happens some in Israel are, as you said, wacky (just like here). In that part of the world wacky can get a lot of people hurt. Is there no way to dampen those tendencies in the name of national survival, even at the cost of having to give up West Bank settlements and this continual apartheid-like treatment of their neighbors?

I would really really like for them to cut back on grabbing America by the b*lls and swinging us around like a big club in the Middle East.

As you know, I am a staunch defender of Israel ….

… when has the anti-Israel left stopped calling Menachem Begin a terrorist?
…

I’m confused. Is there an “anti-Israel left”?

And, wasn’t Begin proud to be a terrorist/nationalist/freedom-fighter?

It’s clear Israel is in a tough spot. America supports them.

Actually though the relationship is a bit stranger than most people consider. Candidates for political office receive money from American Jews and they expect the Israeli line to receive a LOT of attention. Perhaps MOST bizarre is that there is a political war going on over political campaign contributions. The NeoCons are by and large US-Israeli dual citizenship, but many Repubs are affiliated with religious types who support Israel for their own religious reasons and that gives the national Repub party a reason to join the huge fight for Jewish campaign contributions. IT IS HUGE.

Then you have the atrocious Israeli behavior toward Palestinians (not unwarranted in light of suicide bombers, but still nasty) and the Israeli relationship to S. Africa and their interference with proper US foreign policy and it becomes obvious this is an unhealthy relationship all around.

We need a separation, not necessarily a divorce, but a little space.

It’s not goin well fer Freddie.

Israel should be a mutli religious secular state… end of story.

Israel is a bit of an odd phenomenon when so many other countries are becoming increasingly diverse in culture and religion. Personally, I think that the more diverse any given environment is, the safer any given minority will be.

Fern, Thank you, thank you for the link. Saved and will find it.
One of the many benefits of this site is conversing with curious others.
I will find the book and read it.
‘Cause I wanna know.
Somewhere between Faux News sound bites and getting a Master’s in Ancient History.
Again, thanks.
See you upstairs.

Talking to myself down here again, am I?

You are most welcome.

I don’t accept the notion of any religious state. What that equates to is that I don’t want my tax dollars supporting ANY religious state. I don’t think people should be discriminated for their religious beliefs more or less, but some religious beliefs and practices are misogynistic and rather nasty. Hopefully these true believers can be educated like Hirsi Ali and leave their insane faiths behind. Frankly the fanatic jews are as scary as the fanatic moslems.. you remember Kahae and that guy who shot up a mosque on the West Bank.

Let Israel take care of itself. If they are attacked then other nations can come to their defense as appropriate. I’ve been to Israel and sitting on a bus with 17 yr olds carrying Uzis is not my idea of security.

Amen. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. Thomas Paine