Barbara Ehrenreich, who has spent a lifetime championing working people and the decent-paying wages, affordable health care and secure pensions they deserve, made the following observation:
When the original welfare reform bill was proposed [in the mid-1990s], it contained $100 million for chastity training.
This addition to the welfare reform bill, Ehrenreich notes, reflected the ruling class’s preoccupation with the sexual and social habits of the poor. She also might have added, such a misplaced emphasis purposely ignores the structural economic conditions behind poverty.
The always-provocative Ehrenreich spoke this week at the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) as part of a forum, Alleviating Poverty, the latest in the progressive think tank’s “Agenda for Shared Prosperity” series. Ehrenreich, of course, knows firsthand about poverty. She spent months working at several low-wage jobs, such as an “associate” at Wal-Mart, experiences she documents in Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting by in America.
Ehrenreich, EPI President Jared Bernstein and Nancy Cauthen, deputy director of Columbia University’s National Center for Children in Poverty, hashed out potential solutions to a problem this nation should not be having on such a large scale: People work full-time and can’t support themselves or their families.
Cauthen cites the example of a not-so-hypothetical single mother with two children living in Chicago working full-time at an $8-an-hour job. At the end of the year, after bills are paid, with nothing spent on extraneous items like savings, the family is $18,000 in debt. And yet this single mother’s salary actually is more than the new minimum wage, which by 2009 will be $5.75 an hour. The lesson here: Work doesn’t pay.
But it should. So Bernstein and Cauthen proposed a series of changes both in determining who really is below the poverty line and how the nation should address this crisis. And a crisis it is: 20 percent of America’s kids live in low-income families with at least one parent working full-time, according to Cauthen.
First, the official poverty level needs revising. Research shows families typically need an income that’s twice the official poverty level—roughly $41,000 for a family of four—to meet basic needs. In a high-cost area like New York City, the figure is closer to $60,000. Cauthen and Bernstein agree the nation’s poverty rate must be adjusted to 200 percent of the federal poverty line to accurately define what it takes to make ends meet. One reason is that the current measure of poverty has not been adjusted for changes in overall living standards, says Bernstein.
For example, in 1960, the poverty line for a family of four was about half the median income for a four-person family. Today, at about $20,000 for a family of four with two children, the threshold is around 30 percent of the four-person median. Clearly, the failure to update the thresholds [results in] people officially designated as poor…falling further behind the mainstream.
In the current debate over the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), Bernstein notes that Republican supporters of the bill already have tacitly acknowledged the current federal poverty measure is not sufficient, because the bill would provide health care for children living with parents whose incomes fall within 250 percent of the poverty line.
Next, solutions. In emphasizing expanding work supports such as child care and the successful Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), Bernstein and Cauthen stress that such assistance is not in lieu of proposals to raise wages, ensure affordable health care or strengthen workers’ freedom to form unions. In fact, EPI and the Center for American Progress, in its report on poverty released earlier this year, strongly emphasize the need for creation of jobs that pay family-supporting wages. As William Spriggs, a Harvard economist, testified before Congress this spring, the “redistribution of corporate income, from wages to capital income,” has meant more money for the rich while working people and the poor have seen their standard of living stall or drop.
The latest data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis shows that the share of corporate-sector income going to wages is down to its lowest share in over 25 years….The latest CBO [Congressional Budget Office] figures show that almost 60 percent of capital income goes to the top 1 percent in the U.S. income distribution.
The Alleviating Poverty emphasis on work supports are part of the big picture economic restructuring package needed in this nation, one the Agenda for Shared Prosperity has been compiling over the past eight months in advance of the 2008 elections.
With three basic income supports—EITC, food stamps and public health care—that same single mother in Chicago would still be $7,000 in the hole at the end of a year. But add child care support and the family finally would break even. This examples illustrates the extent to which low-income working families are in dire need of multiple means of support.
In fact, says Cauthen, child care is one of the biggest expenses for low-income families, and one of the least emphasized in our current support system. Worse, only 7 percent of eligible families get child care subsidies. Part of the problem is funding—these programs simply aren’t funded sufficiently to meet the need. But the other snag is structural. Because such funding is part of state block grants, when the economy turns sour, states are least able to pay for support programs—at a time when low-income families most need such assistance.
Expanding and adequately funding existing programs, and enhancing these supports with those such as transportation assistance, which virtually are non-existent now, are crucial.
Q. What about cost?
A. What about the Bush administration spending $9 billion a month on the war in Iraq?
Bernstein, who has slogged through these torturous Bush years with the rest of us, expressed optimism that for the first time, with the 2008 elections, there is a possibility that some of these proposals might come to fruition. He may be right.
Just this week, The Wall Street Journal highlighted a recent Pew poll that revealed an amazing shift among Republican voters in favor of addressing issues like income inequality and against so-called moral issues as defined by social conservatives.
Pew found that between 1987 and this year, for example, support for “old-fashioned values about family and marriage” had dropped 11 percentage points. The percentage of those who said gay teachers should be fired dropped 23 points, Pew said. Support for U.S. global engagement and “peace through military strength” also shrank.
But the number of Americans who share some classic Democratic concerns has risen. Three-quarters of the population is worried about growing income inequality, Pew found, while two-thirds favor government-funded health care for all. Support for a government safety net for the poor is at its highest level since 1987, Pew said.
Ehrenreich points out that in advancing the argument for increased support for the working poor, we need to remember it is a moral crusade—if you can’t make a living working, something is seriously wrong. When they emphasized this point, campaigns for a living wage and for an increase in the minimum wage succeeded in gaining support and passing legislation in cities and states around the country.
Another point that needs emphasizing: These proposals don’t constitute a handout. If you work full-time, you’re fulfilling your end of the social contract. It’s long past time the other side of the contract gets fulfilled as well.
Related posts:
- The Max Tax: Baucus’ Plan Would Benefit Big Med and Shackle the Middle Class
- Blue America Launches New TV Initiative in Arkansas — And We Need You
- Democratic Health Care Holdouts Worry the Rich Are Taxed Too Much
- The Max Tax: Rewarding Wal-Mart for Impoverishing Employees
- The Max Tax: Baucus Plan Shafts Workers, Rewards Walmart





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Bushies love the right to life, until you’re born, that is.
Tula!
Zed?
Her stuff in “Nickel and Dimed” about the cheap ass “visible Christians” who stiff her all the time about sums it up for me!
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 1
According to Legend-in-His-Own-Mind Scalia, born children have lesser constitutional rights.
(e.g., Vernonia School District 47J vs. Acton et ux)
A blastocyst, on the other hand…
Hi there Tula!
I heard (no link) the other day that abortion has increased in the last 7 years. . .so I guess our childrens is not learning chastity.
Thanks, Tula. This gets to the heart of the issue quite nicely. The minimum value of full time labor by an adult is at least enough to meet basic needs (food, housing, clothing, medical, etc.). This is the only reasonable standard and should be the basis for establishing the poverty rate and minimum wage. Proportion of medium income or any other standard is absurd. This is particularly true given declining wages and rising costs of living in this country. The current system is a fraud allowing corporations and employers to expropriate ever larger portions of the value of labor for their own profit while reducing workers to serfdom.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 1
Bingo!
Oh Tula! This is such an important post. Thank you.
Millions of low-income parents have been falling further and further behind each and every month. The disparity between income and basic expenses has widened considerably over the past decade. I lived it.
A person in this position is at such a disadvantage on so many levels. I’m with Bernstein. I hope for better in ‘09 and beyond for all those struggling in the numbers game more commonly known as their lives.
PEACE
Here’s the NYT Cost if Living Calculator, kinda interesting and a good reason not to live in NY or CA!
Two things:
Most of Ehrenreich’s work has sort of focused on the fear of the misddle class falling into poverty, and on the postitive and negative ramifications of that fear. In the 1980s Reagan made that fear a reality for many middle-class families.
BushCo’s claim that the new SCHIP bill would permit families with $83,000 annual income to qualify for government-sponsored “socialized” health insurance is false. First off, SCHIP in different in every state, and the figure Bush cited was a special request that was made to NY state by a NYC family, which was not approved. (And let’s not forget that in a sense, $83,000 for a family of four gets you nowhere in Manhattan.)
California’s expensive- but a lot of the extra cost is housing.
Renters don’t pay a lot more here- buyers do. On the other hand, food’s as cheap as anywhere and so is clothing. You don’t need to heat or cool your house- and there’s lots to do that doesn’t cost a cent.
It’s cheap to live in Kansas- but you wake up every morning in Kansas- or Mississippi.
Unfettered capitalism produces a few rich people.
Capitalism in a properly structured and regulated governmental framework produces a rich society.
That’s where the GOP goes wrong…they omit the proper government role as referee and arbiter in the economy.
raven @ 11:
Thanks for that link. That calculator makes my point in 12. It tells me that I would have to make 120.03 percent more than my present income to maintain my standard of living if I move from Minneapolis, MN to NYC.
John Dean’s latest
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20071004.html
lan Greenspan’s Autobiography, and His Decision to Switch Political Parties
By JOHN W. DEAN
—-
Thursday, Oct. 04, 2007
As readers may well know, I am a former Republican, turned Independent because he saw for himself that the GOP was not very good at government. It is nice to have such eminent company as former chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank Alan Greenspan. When Greenspan speaks, people truly listen.”
———————————————
With the Republican party headed towards a cliff, Pat Buchanan, Kevin Phillips, Paul O’neil and many others have questioned the direction of their party. John Dean now an Independent, Greenspan has shared how much he loves Bill Clinton by calling him “the best Republican President” has obviously jumped the sinking ship.
Wonder what election statisticians (is that who could figure the possibility of the chances of a third party ) would say about the possibility of a viable third party?
It would seem that at this time in history the situation could not get any better (or worse) for a third party to give it a shot.
Biodun @ 16
Same with Athens, GA!
Thanks much for the polling data, I needed the hope.
We are a good people who want to do the right thing, but we cannot get there without leadership.
I am a little distressed at the ambiguity in the statement that “support has been it’s highest since 1987.” Well, just what the fuck is it? I suspect it’s depressingly low, but there’s no way to tell. It feels like I’m being lied to, in a way.
Liberals aren’t Republicans, real numbers representing real facts actually work. The WSJ link doesn’t take me to the survey to look for myself.
Thank you again, Nickel and Dimed is a great, great book, and Ms. Ehrenreich will always be one of my heroes.
Can I get an AMEN!
It’s frustrating for us lefties in a country that keeps voting these right-wingers into office, but this whole post illustrates a very important point.
The vast majority of Americans — whether they’re liberal, moderate, or conservative — are in agreement on some very important issues.
The influence of big corporations, wealth disparities, NAFTA/Free Trade. These are issues on which a HUGE majority of Americans agree with us. Unfortunately a HUGE majority of our elected leaders don’t — because they’re owned by the oligarchs.
But we need to realize our advantage and find a way to capitalize on it.
Ann Coulter on women:
http://www.observer.com/2007/coulter-culture
Ah, another Republican icon speaks out in favor of Democracy and women voting. No wonder they get along so well with the Taliban.
Whenever I hear the right-wing discuss these issues on talk radio, they are arguing, “if you can’t afford the kids you shouldn’t have them”. Then they deny that a women should not be allowed to chose to terminate a pregnancy. This is a conundrum that I cannot reconcile. Of course, these are the same people who want school vouchers and seek to undermine and abandon quality public school education for all. These selfish, judgemental supposed ‘christians’ are definitely not compassionate.
Can we ever get these people to recognize that our society and our nation is strongest when there is opportunity for ALL, when we work together to help our fellow Americans up out of poverty. I fear that this is the climax of our “ME” generation, and it is tearing our national fiber to shreads.
Re: Ehrenreich:
Not the senator @ 21
My counter is that if the U.S. rescinded white males’ rights to vote, the U.S. would never have another war. My pipe dream.
I was just thinking about this in a related way, but left it out…but now I will say it.
Ever wonder what a real Christian acts like? Watch Ms. Ehrenreich. She precisely states she couldn’t be one, it’s too hard, and then goes right and walks with Jesus every day among the poor, the wretched, the outcast.
One of the fundamental flaws in “welfare reform” was that people who were “trapped” in welfare needed to be kicked out for their own good. In fact, most were making an entirely reasonable calculation — the jobs they could get paid less than welfare, and they couldn’t afford to take them. The only thing that potentially made it worth the risk was the rather slim possibility that they would eventually make more.
One sensible answer to this would be to have benefits that ramp down as income rises, rather than a cliff between non-working and working status. But then, if welfare reform had actually been intended to work, rather than to punish people for the moral failing of being poor, they would have measured the results by how well people did, not by how many were taken off the welfare rolls.
And re: SCHIP:
Let’s hope the House has enough votes to override that veto.
One of the dirty, and never discussed, secrets of the welfare stipend and minimum wage work is that it is impossible to survive – forget living in a moderately safe way – on them. This has been true for 40 years at least.
This myth that these payments are adequate is perpetrated by legislatures and wealthy politicians (cf. especially Mitt Romney and GW Bush) eager to cut the “waste” in government budgets.
Interestingly no one ever suggests that military suppliers take a 6% reduction in pay as is currently being done to Medicare suppliers, but not Big Pharma, or that payments never be adjusted for inflation, as has been done to military salaries. Congressional pay, however, has risen steadily during this cost cutting.
So what do low-wage, welfare, lower military paygrades do? “Borrow” from family. Sell non-essentials and some essentials. Steal. Deal. Strip. Prostitute. Live in the car. Apply for food stamps (although that program is also starving for funds). Beg on corners. Apply for welfare (good luck). Try to scam the system (really the only way to get enough money) until they get caught.
“Middle class” people, of whom there are fewer and fewer these days, often express amazement that “the poor” can live on so little money. “The poor”, who are no different than “the middle class” except for having less money, are not magicians nor do they possess a secret formula for stretching dollars. Just as you and I would not be able to live decently on the money the poor earn or are alloted they cannot either. Often they cannot even survive.
Issa making excuses for the disaster in Iraq. “Does it look like Russia” You know after we take a socialized nation and privatize their oil resources. “Is it a mess like that”
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs…..p;Code=CS3
paradox @ 25
She walks with Jesus? How narrow that thinking!
OT, but here’s what Sen. Schumer sends back to those who beg, wia website, not to attack Iran:
Thank you for contacting me to express your concerns regarding the possibility of the Administration’s launching a pre-emptive strike against Iran. I appreciate your taking the time to share your opinion and want you to assure you that I believe a pre-emptive strike against Iran would be both unwise and untenable. In the current dispute with Iran, I believe that our influence is best exerted in global diplomatic and economic spheres.
I am deeply concerned that a rogue nation like Iran could quickly destabilize an already fragile Middle East. Iran certainly needs to be dealt with and contained, and we absolutely must build alliances to reduce the threat it poses to us and our allies in the region. I agree with the Iraq Study Group’s proposal that the U.S. engage Iran in diplomatic talks, and am glad the Administration has finally decided to do so. The U.S. should also engage other nations to deal with Iran’s nuclear programs. As we have recently learned from our talks with North Korea, formal discussions regarding nuclear programs can produce results.
Economic sanctions are also a powerful tool. Iran, although a major oil exporter, has to import most of its refined petroleum. Its economy depends heavily on oil profits, which may soon be fading as their infrastructures ages. Because of this, I believe that we will be able to use a classic “carrot and stick†model of diplomacy to control Iran, one in which the “carrots†provided by multi-lateral talks are backed up by the “stick†of additional economic sanctions if Iran does not comply. For this reason, I am a co-sponsor of S. 970, the Iran Counter-Proliferation Act of 2007. This bi-partisan bill gives financial teeth to the Administration’s talks, offering a real possibility of curtailing Iranian threats without resorting to military action. I have also been a long supporter of the Iran-Libya Sanctions Act.
But Iran’s acquisition of nuclear capabilities is not the only threat that the country poses. Iranians who sympathize with Iraqi Shiite insurgents have been contributing to sectarian violence in the region by supplying them with weapons and by sending young people to Iraq to fight. This is extremely troubling because this aid endangers our brave fighting men and women. We need to work with surrounding countries to secure Iraqi borders so that we halt the flow of weapons and fighters into Iraq.
Finally, I believe that our military is currently being stretched to its limits policing a civil war in Iraq and supporting the NATO mission in Afghanistan. A pre-emptive strike against Iran would not only be unwise, but stretch our armed services’ readiness beyond the point where they will continue to be the world’s greatest fighting force.
Thank you for taking the time to contact me on this important topic. I always appreciate constituents’ input and hope that you will continue to share your thoughts with me in the future.
Sincerely,
Charles E. Schumer
United States Senator
“no one could live on the minimum wage”
Well- some can and do. Not well- but they do.
share an apt. ditch the car and buy a monthly bus pass- eat only at home- make yer own bread–etc.
The funny thing is that if the ruling classes REALLY wanted the rest of us to lay off the breeding, they’d all be hardcore Planned Parenthood supporters. But no: They want there to be lots of us, so we compete for the crumbs our masters so generously fling to us.
Speaking of someone who the GOP probably wishes wore a chastity belt:
State of MN v. Larry Edwin Craig
The judge is NOT going to dismiss the case.
Being out of a job is the hardest work I have known.
CW @ 22
It’s actually not that hard — the translation from right-wingese to English is “if you can’t afford the kids you shouldn’t have sex.” If you do, you should receive the appropriate punishment — children, and government has no business making that punishment less onerous, no matter how much harm to kids or the fabric of society is done in the process.
rwcole @ 13
I wuz going to say. Plus, there’s still a number of ppl who purchased their houses before the whole housing market insanity. If I were faced with settling down somewhere now, it wouldn’t be CA, or I’d be renting instead.
behindthefall @ 31 (quoting Chuck Schumer):
Whew.
Last week, Elliott asked if SCHIP covered dental. I said yes, at least in Minnesota. Some people said it doesn’t. This is from the SCHIP website:
I have a friend who has survived for years on less than a thousand a month. He lives much more simply than most could stand- but he has time to write and do as he likes- healthy diet- lots of exercise- lots of free time.
Interesting tidbit about Ehrenreich. With her background and education, she could easily be making tons of money. Instead, she’s a journalist and writer working to reduce poverty.
behindthefall @ 31
Schumer left lots of room for support for a pre-emptive attack on Iran. The question we should all be repeating is “based on what?”
Iaea El Baradei has said “Iran poses no imminent threat”. He has also repeatedly stated that there is “no hard evidence to back up the endlessly repeated claims by same folks who lied us into Iraq that Iran is actively working on a nuclear weapons program”.
General Pace has stated that there is “no hard evidence to back up the claims that the IED’s in Iraq are from Iran”
Will the right wing radicals take our nation into a more disastrous situation, will they kill more innocent people in Iran?
rwcole @ 13
The DC area is just plain expensive. Housing’s expensive, food’s not cheap, you have to heat and cool your house if you want to be comfortable.
The recent “State of the Poor” report put out by a county commission that I serve on lays it out:
So much for those “middle class” families Bush claims will be covered by the CHIP expansion…
rwcole @ 39
I know several people like that also. One of then even has enough money and time to travel domestically and overseas. He buys cheap plane tickets, racks up frequent-flier miles, and stays with friends whenever he travels. Most of these people I know are writers, graphic designers, editors, and web developers.
Biodun
Sounds like you know my friend!
33% of homeless men are Vets
http://www.nchv.org/media.cfm
Biodun @ 38
Most states have finally figured out that it is far cheaper to provide basic – and believe me it is basic – dental care than to hospitalize 10 or so ER patients per month for IV antibiotics, ICU and specialist care, not to mention the odd trach with ventilator support, due to parapharyngeal space abscesses.
(CNN) — A Minnesota judge has denied Sen. Larry Craig’s request to withdraw his guilty plea to a disorderly conduct charge stemming from his arrest in an airport men’s room sex sting.
In a 27-page order, Judge Charles Porter found Craig had entered the guilty plea “accurately, voluntarily and intelligently” and it was too late to withdraw his admission.
Craig, who says he is not gay, argued that he entered the plea without legal advice, fearing that the allegations would be made public…
[Mod Note; Edited by Mod for length. To help keep the FDL servers running smoothly and to avoid any copyright issues, please do not post entire articles — include a link instead. Thank you. ]
Kathleen @ 17
Considering the degree to which the system is rigged (winner-take-all) in favor of a 2-party regime, how ’bout just putting the Gangrenous Old Party out of its misery (RNC is ripe for RICO prosecution, if we once again get an honest AG) and meanwhile start putting Progressives (new netroots-based party!) into local offices in 2008, with a goal of marginalizing the GOP into oblivion.
Imagine — maybe in 12 years, the Dems may be the Party on the Right!
raven @ 47
Well, at least his constituents now all know how to contact the Senator.
Health Care is a huge problems for many americans and for many US corporations. Goopers CAN’T solve the problem cause ya can’t do it simply with tax cuts and that’s their only economic tool.
Without health insurance, most americans are one serious health problem away from bankruptcy.
MSNBC doing the torture story…Heh.
Meanwhile, Chimpy continues to sink:
rwcole @ 39
RW,
I raise a family of five on less than $1500 a month takehome. Living poor is a choice if one values the time to slow life down.(been laid off from three teaching positions these last 12 years.)
Without Schip for my children I would be sunk.
Thanks Grassley, you are not always a rubber stamp)
rwcole @ 50
Even with insurance, all it takes is one bad accident or serious illness.
Jim
Thanks for the story- I’m surprised that someone hasn’t written a good book about those who find ways to get by on less.
And the Dems are f*cking up in Florida again:
Senator Craig: “Tap Three Times.”
#Fuss123$BobbyG @ 49
Can he finally see the writing on the wall?
That Florida story is really odd. Obviously the dem party in Florida didn’t have total control over what the voters did about the primary elections. Apparently everyone expects a resolution but it’s still odd.
“Pew found, while two-thirds favor government-funded health care for all.”
The phrasing exasperates me! It is Not GOVT funded, it is.American-Tax-Payer funded. Bush Cheyney & Repukes seem to think the money belongs the Government: ie: Them.
The recommendations are reasonable. But I am a firm believer that if you don’t have the money, you shouldn’t be getting pregnant. I believe in low cost or free brith control for any woman who needs it.
And a person who is making poverty wages *needs* it. Reponsibility first.
rwcole @ 55
Just what I am going to ask John Edwards tomorrow night. Two Americas, Rich and the rest of us, Why does that resonate with you?
Biodun @ 56
I’m confused about this story. The article I read today said that the primary was set by the Republican governor and legislature. Is this correct?
rwcole @ 59
Of course, it’s all about the Dems, even though the RNC has said that by breaking their rules, the R delegation will only be seated at a half if at all. But that doesn’t help the meme of the Dem in-fighting so gets no play in the news
Jim
Because I thought about writing such a book a few years ago.
JF @ 63
The Dems in the legislature (including the Dem who wrote the original bill) are all in line with the Rs and Gov.
Forgetting Afghanistan
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/02/‘most-violent-year’-in-afghanistan/
Re: cheap lifestyles:
A fairly recent NYTimes article dealt with the educated “homeless” and nomads who sleep on the couches in the livingrooms of friends and acquaintances around the country and around the world. There’s a huge network of these people, who open up their couches in exchange for the couches of others. You stay on someone’s couch for about two-three weeks in London or Sydney, and someone stays on your couch in NYC.
Again, most of the poeple in the network are writers, graphic designers, web developers, freelance journalists: people who can do their wwork anywhere in the world, as long as there’s an Internet connection.
Interesting, eh?
raven @ 18
Even worse for me if my husband and I moved from Upstate New York to the New York City area – 168.5% more income would be needed.
rwcole @ 65
Fiction?
The housing bubble bursts the tender financial membrane and we have 1929 again along with a class entitled to silver spoons and fuck the rest of you.
I was raised by parents who toughed it out during the 1930’s. WE WILL Survive RW.
rwcole @ 13
Some places, that’s even true. (In most of the state you need either winter heating or summer cooling, and probably both.)
JF @ 63
Correct:
(From the same link.)
PJ
I live in San Diego. The heat almost never goes on.
California group launches campaign to put Gore’s name on primary ballots
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/California_group_lau
nches_campaign_to_put_1003.html
O.K. this is getting beyond creepy another soldier shot in head for ????.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/CBS_Family_of_gay_
soldier_wants_1004.html
STRONG MESSAGE SHUT UP OR GET SHOT AND DEAD
Biodun @ 72
WTF is the DNC thinking. Why are they punishing Dem voters for what the Rep legislature did? (Whether the Dem legislaters went along with it, or not)
rwcole @ 73
My son just moved to San Diego. Living on a sailboat moored at Shelter Island. Works as a cargo ground crew Sup at the airport. He’s loving it.
JF @ 75:
Yep. That’s why I said “f*cking up.”
JF @ 75
I say again, the RNC has claimed that they will do the same thing to the R delegation from Florida; it’s just not getting any news play as that would spoil blaming everything on the Dems.
The DNC and National party warned the state delegation of what would happen before the bill was even written. The Dems helped write it and support it. It’s not as if they weren’t warned.
But the response is kinda like the warnings Little Boots was given before going into Iraq – i.e,. ignored.
Gawd…Perino (rolling eyes)…from transcript over at TPM:
“PERINO: Helen, the United States policy is not to torture, and we do not.
QUESTION: I hear what you’re saying, the policy. But what do we really do …
PERINO: The American people have every right to be very proud of what we’ve done, and we have not had another terrorist attack on this country. And they should be glad of that, as well.
QUESTION: So the end justifies the means.
PERINO: Our end is that we don’t … our means are that we don’t torture, and the end result is that we’ve not had a terrorist attack.
QUESTION: Just you saying it doesn’t mean it’s true.
PERINO: Well, Helen, look, I can’t decide … if I can’t change your mind, I mean, that’s fine. I just … I’m giving you the information that I have.
QUESTION: Well, I think the testimony of the people who have been tortured themselves.”
Bobby
The liveaboarders often do quite well. Some of em avoid mooring fees and survive quite nicely on military pensions and such..rent free living.
rwcole @ 73
And in OC my house doesn’t even have air conditioning.
That said, if I didn’t have A/C in Riverside or Lancaster, I’d probably kill myself :-P
But ALSO that said, the bulk of the population is pretty much along the coastal areas…
Bill Clinton now showing a 66% Job Approval Rating from his gig as president. Clusterfuck pullin down a 31% rating…
peanutbutter @ 81
I’ve lived in Lancaster for a couple of months in July/August. No A/C is not an option.
The Florida early primary is another Republican dirty trick on multiple levels.
The main purpose of moving up the date was to vote on a ballot measure on to change the property tax structure.
I think the Democrats state and national missed an opportunity turn this on the Republicans although it is not too late.
The Florida votes will count and a delegation will be seated.
Democrats must support the early primary to be able to get votes out for the property tax iniatiative.
The National should give them a pass and offer to help and then tell the others who were threatening to back off they are feeding in to gooper bad behavior
JF @ 75
And what exactly is the alternative? Republicans screw Dems in Florida, so you abandon the rules that everyone agreed to and let them screw Dems nationwide? The DNC is just attempting to enforce the rules.
I don’t think much of the whole “Iowa and New Hampshire first” business, but if they couldn’t get it changed when they were meeting to determine the rules, I don’t think letting one state crash the primary system is the way to do it, either.
Being a newbie Firepup, what does “Zed” mean?
Those who live in San Diego are very lucky: they don’t get the extremes most of the rest of us do.
Consider San Francisco and the Redwood Empire, where you need heating in the summer also.
Redshift @ 85
How does voting before IA and NH screw Dems nationwide? I can’t see the connection.
CW @ 22
That’s because you’re not translating it correctly. What they mean when they say the above:
If you can’t afford children, don’t have sex.
And AP more or less editorializes:
Poor Chimpy.
steelhead @ 86
If you’re the first to comment on a thread, you got the Zed.
The trend is for a national primary in January…the closer we get to such a plan- the more early name recognition and buckets of ready cash will be important. You can do New Hampshire on a budget- not California and New York. Seems to me that the early primaries favor the candidates with ties to big contributors.
Why should IA and NH be permanently privileged in primary-scheduling? It isn’t like they have a lot of delegates, it’s just tradition, and they’ve been rescheduling earlier and earlier to stay first. Just silliness, as far as I can tell.
Regional primaries, or something similar, should be the plan. (FWIW, CA moved its presidential primary to March because it was tired of being ignored by the various media. I’m still not sure it was a good idea.)
steelhead @ 86
zed means zero (o): For the first commenter on a thread. The old Wordpress used to say zero before saying 1 later. Now it just says 1. But the zed tradition endures.
MayDaze @ 91
Once upon a time, some initial comments appeared as “comment #0″. Thus, the lucky commenter would say “zero!”, which became shortened to zed.
steelhead @ 86
The comments used to be numbered from 0 onward instead of 1 onward, hence “zed” meant the first comment that was posted. The usage has remained even after the comments were reworked.
Miners in South Africa trapped
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..v_brK4NpFi
ODaO6nto9lSus0NUE
Utah Miner Families speak out! On Bob Murray: ” I can’t stand to listen to the man.”
By: John Amato on Thursday, October 4th, 2007
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..o-the-man/
I’m confused about this story. The article I read today said that the primary was set by the Republican governor and legislature. Is this correct?
It is totally correct. Yep, the rethugnicans moved the primary date and the Demoncrats are punishing the Democrats in the state. I now drop my registration to Indie. What total fools.
Peterr and peanutbutter:
I scooped you both on that one…*g*
(From a zedophile in the zedocracy.)
I used to have a screen grab of a zero comment, alas it went away when my computer died.
Goopers didn’t get nearly enough grief about the mine deaths in Utah–Their president assigns an industry lap dog to be in charge of mine safety and a huge gooper donor gets by with hundreds of safety violations until he finally kills people…seems that there should be some payback.
Biodun @ 99
In the race to welcome a newcomer, I’m always glad to be beaten.
(h/t to Biodun)
JF @ 88
By state law, NH HAS to be the very first primary state. The DNC tried to play around and stick NV as a caucus state after Iowa and have SC vote primary a week after NH, trying to lessen the influence of IA and NH. Instead it made them more important.
Then Florida and MI tried to get around and stick their primaries up in January, against the published rules from both parties. The rules were published well over a year ago, giving ample warning to both states that they shouldn’t do this for THIS cycle. The refusal to seat at LEAST half the delegation has been known for a long time as the planned punishment.
Sorry, but I have no sympathy for either state at this point. But of course, it’s all the Dems fault, even though the Repubs have the same rules.
JF @ 88
Because it says that the DNC rules are meaningless and can be ignored with impunity. In most organizations I know of, flagrant violations of the rules, especially ones that purely benefit your own constituency, are considered a bad thing.
Talking about what the primary schedule should look like is about as relevant to this particular issue as all the pundits talking about their perfect plan for what Bush should do in Iraq. They’re not going to happen in this election cycle; the question is how we deal with where we are now.
rwcole @ 101
Same people own the media and the administration.
Peterr @ 102
Seems as if this is mostly about media revenues. If- say- Florida- doesn’t have it’s primary until after everything is decided- then it’s teevee stations don’t share in the media bonanza.
Hi everyone.
Just a quick drive-by to drop off this:
Fla Democratic Party Primary FAQ
To finish mowing the lawn. See everyone later.
BTW, Steelhead, welcome to the ‘Lake.
Correx to my embedded 106 above (I don’t have edit function in my current workstation):
The Q and A about Florida says that goopers outnumber dems two to one in the state legislature. Isn’t the voter registration about even in the state? How do goopers get such an advantage?
From the NY Times GOP plans early-primary penalties
Just checked- dems actually have a registration ADVANTAGE in Florida…must be some world class gerrymandering goin on there.
Kathleen @ 17
I would fully support establishment of any right wing third party. Otherwise, not so much.
JF @ 88
Press interpretation and momentum. That’s why and Edwards win in Iowa could be a mistake for the party. His public funding scheme sounds great until you work out the numbers and see that it’s a recipe for disaster against the GOP election machine.
dakine01 @ 64
Pivot and attack!
Q: What about Florida Dems and their early primary?
(one) A: It’s strange isn’t it that BOTH parties in Florida are breaking their national party rules. If only the electronic voting machines weren’t ruining our elections these problems probably wouldn’t occur.
rwcole @ 82
Heh. Hillary thinks she earned half of that 66%. What was she thinking, having relations with THAT WOMAN?
Just how much was Hillary involved in running that admin.? Really, can anybody figure it out?
steelhead @ 86
nothing…nothing at all
Welcome!
Tula, what you describe is a demonstration of the Iron Law of Wages. I have always assumed that we as a nation had moved away from this, but obviously not. Work is indeed a fundamental value for all Americans. Welfare reform was based on this idea. But it is dishonors this value if people with full time jobs cannot support themselves, let alone a family.
Speaking of rank hypocrisy from the chastity police, consider this bit of history I learned reading bell hooks.
When pressure from abolitionists obliged slaveholders to stop importing slaves, they took to breeding their own. To that end, they even changed the laws regarding paternity so that the child of a white man and a slave woman inherited the status of his mother, not his father. Talk about flagrant evidence of intent. After that the slave population increased exponentially. Infants were taken from their mothers as soon as possible to make sure slave women got pregnant as often as their white owners could rape them.
“This addition to the welfare reform bill, Ehrenreich notes, reflected the ruling class’s preoccupation with the sexual and social habits of the poor.”
This is an astonishingly ignorant statement, even for Eherenreich.
If by “ruling class” she means to say taxpayers, we (speaking as a taxpayer) care only with the consequences of the sexual and social habits the poor are unequipped to deal with…because we end up holding the bag.