Shadowstalker @ 53
…

Goodness, no, ma’am! I was thinking about the “shocked, shocked” gooperland I live in at the moment. They can say whatever they want, but if I mention that maybe Israel is wrong about something, suddenly I’m some sort of racist anti-Semite evil librul. I just live with it.

I’ve also recently concluded this is the only workable attitude if one wishes to retain one’s ability to decide for one’s self what one thinks about the issue of Israel (And black and white race relations in the U.S. too. Good luck having a rational discussion in that ballpark as well.)

Distancing oneself with “hey, you want to call me a Nazi because the topic of “maybe Israel isn’t acting in its own best long-term interest” has come up?” Well, you can’t go any worse than that so I might as well say what I like from here on out. The dialog can’t degrade any farther. And heck, keep it up and the backlash is going to come on all the sooner. But, heck that will just feed so nicely into the victim mentality–hm, maybe that’s the point about trying to bring on the backlash… hm hm, must ponder this more…

For those of you who want to know and are open to more about the details of this conflict
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

Norman Finkelstein & Former Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben-Ami Debate:CompleteTranscript

http://www.democracynow.org/finkelstein-benami.s
html

The Mideast: A Century of Conflict
A Seven-Part Series Traces the Israeli-Palestinian Dispute
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/mideast/history/

Noam Chomsky v. Alan Dershowitz: A Debate on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/12
/23/1450216

Edward Said (you will learn a great deal by reading his books)
http://www.israelipalestinianp…..dsaid.html

oh sure throw out a ’sound bite’ and pretend you’ve made a point.
we need facts not one-liners.
sheesh.

(s.a.t.i.r.e. – o.b.v.i.o.u.s.l.y. – o.b.v.i.o.u.s. – s.a.t.i.r.e.)

Jane thank you for posting this about Bishop Tutu. I saw this yesterday and hoped the FDL folks would get brave enough to post it.

Here is a petition to sign for those concerned about the blocking of free speech at campuses abou t the I/P issue.

Muzzle Watch is an amazing website that post articles that are not seen anywhere else in the MSM or the “progressive” blogosphere.

http://www.muzzlewatch.com/?p=257

There is a conference coming up about this important issue. Bishop Tutu is the main speaker

Friends of Sabeel-New England presents . . .
“The Apartheid Paradigm in Palestine-Israel:
Issues of Justice and Equality”

October 26 – 27, 2007
Old South Church, 645 Boylston St., Boston

Friday—2:30 PM—10:00 PM
Saturday—8:00 AM—4:30 PM

Keynote Address: Archbishop Desmond Tutu

Panelists:
Naim Ateek * Anat Biletzki * Diana Buttu * Noam Chomsky
John Dugard * Farid Esack * Noura Erekat * Jeff Halper
Donald Wagner * David Wildman

Here’s another interesting post at Muzzlewatch.

I find this to be one of the most offensive comments ever left unmoderated at firedoglake. I’d like to request that it remain, as it is probably evidence of a tort committed by the originator of the comment. Thank you.

Agreed but another by the same commenter to
debar participants was equally reprehensible as was the same commenter’s attempt to deliberately misconstrue what was actually said. Also, shouting at others to STFU bc they do not agree is also neither rational nor civil.

I find this to be one of the most offensive comments ever left unmoderated at firedoglake. I’d like to request that it remain, as it is probably evidence of a tort committed by the originator of the comment. Thank you.

Agreed.

http://www.informationclearing…..e18504.htm

Suezboo, I share SA’s reverence for Tutu and his immense contribution to humanity in leading by example in promoting a paradigm of non-violence enshrined in the fundamental principle of eschewing vengeful retribution.

Mandela and Archbishop Tutu are idolised in this country.He led the Truth & Reconciliation Committee which has been so admired elsewhere for thwarting bloody revenge plans.He is a member of “The Elders” a group of elder statesmen initiated by Madiba and including Jimmy Carter.A holy man, a peaceful man, a man of integrity and never afraid to speak out when something offends his moral compass without regard to political maneuverings.

During the apartheid years, the ANC (Mandela’s party) was ranked by the USA as a terrorist organisation along with the PLO, IRA etc.The apartheid regime had tight weapons and other trading links with Israel, as well as (openly) with Paraguay & Taiwan. All the “pariah” states together.So,one can sympathise with Tutu’s fellow-feeling with the Palestinians, I think.

As for the intractable, centuries-old Middle East problem – everyone who has ever ruled a bit of that bloodsoaked land is to blame and I see no solution.