In the upcoming battle to overturn the President’s promised veto of the SCHIP bill, Bush and his Republican supporters are claiming the SCHIP moves too far in the direction of “government controlled health care,” while some Republicans are calling the program “socialized medicine,” which they assume is the equivalent of saying “boo!” to America’s uninsured children.
SCHIP supporters deny these claims, but you get the sense they’d rather focus on providing health care for the 10 million children, 4 million presently without health insurance, who will benefit from SCHIP.
But SCHIP supporters have nothing to fear from this childish name calling. And it’s not merely because the charge of “socialized” health care is nonsense; it’s also because there are varying degrees of government sponsored health care that are well established and accepted in the United States. The right wing know-nothings just don’t want to acknowledge what we already know but forget in the political debates.
In a recent New York Times op ed, The Socialists Are Coming! The Socialists Are Coming! Philip Boffey distinguishes the types of health coverage in America and finds an array of models from fully privatized to fully socialized, but with several hybrids in between.
No one has the nerve to brand this country’s purest systems of “socialized medicine” — the military and veterans hospitals — for what they are. In both systems, care is not only paid for by the government but delivered in government facilities by doctors who are government employees. Even so, a parade of Washington’s political dignitaries, including President Bush, has turned to the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Md., for checkups and treatment, without ideological complaint. Politicians who deplore government-run health care for average Americans are only too happy to use it themselves.
Nor are they eager to tar the vast array of government hospitals and clinics that serve our nation’s veterans. For one thing, the veterans’ hospitals, once considered a second-rate backwater, now lead their private sector competitors in adopting electronic medical records and score well for delivering high quality care at relatively low cost. Even when the veterans’ hospitals were rightly criticized this year for their part in the disgraceful failure to care adequately for soldiers injured in Iraq and Afghanistan, there was no clamor to junk or privatize the system, only demands to make it better. . . .
The country’s vast Medicare program is one step less socialized — a “single-payer” program in which the government pays for the care and sets reimbursement rates, but the actual care is delivered by private doctors and hospitals.
So where does SCHIP fit in?
The State Children’s Health Insurance Program, or S-chip, was denigrated by one Republican congressman this week as “a government-run socialized wolf masquerading in the sheep skin of children’s health.” It might better be thought of as a “double-payer system” in which the states and the federal government put up the money, the states take the lead in defining the program and the actual care is typically delivered through private health plans by private doctors and hospitals.
Government-supported health systems are widespread and widely accepted in America. And the President and his family (and Congress) take advantage of a highly socialized health system run by the government. Purely private systems, in which individuals pay directly for heath care provided by private doctors/nurses, in purely private care facilities are not the general rule, let alone the preferred choice of those who govern us.
So when the President and his Republican supporters try to frighten Americans about the evils of “government-sponsored” health care, let alone “socialized medicine,” while he and his family personally benefit from excellent care from one of the most socialized systems in the country, they’re talking through their well cared for, government-provided hats.



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Zed downunder?
I told the folks downstairs
Morning Scarecrow!
Good morning.
Excellent post. The socialized medicine bogeyman was started by the AMA many years ago IIRC
Good Morning Scarecrow!
Caw, caw!
Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor is the American way of life, scarecrow.
MoveOn is organizing rallies once Bush vetos the bill. You’ve given me a great idea for a sign, scarecrow!
if we provide socialized health care for kids, next think you know we’ll be taken over by those commies in the soviet union.
oh, wait….
amazing, istn’t it… the people who benefit the most from goverment provided bennies are sometimes the most adamant about preventing others from enjoying the very same goverment support public good.
The wealthy and those who aspire to it hate the idea of socialism because of their greed. This view holds that we are responsible for ourselves and no one else. Socialism is perceived as an economic system which makes us all share the burden.
Thew the me versus we view of the world.
America is a ME first society… or at least controlled by the me firsters.
Me
My family
My religion
My property
My money
My gun
Me
Me
Me
Before scarecrow shows up, thought I’d sneak in this OT article about John Bolton, who makes several arguments for why he should be certified insane. He calls for bombing Iran’s nuclear facilities:
4pm
Bolton calls for bombing of Iran
Ros Taylor
Sunday September 30, 2007
Guardian Unlimited
This is the man Bush/Cheney thought was perfect to represent the United States at the United Nations. h/t to twolf who found this.
petedownunder @ 5
Yes, I remember it as a child in the 1950’s. My Dad noted disgustedly that Eisenhower, who opposed it, had never paid a doctor’s bill in his entire life.
selise @ 11
Think “The Greatest Generation”. They rigged the system for their own benefit and have tried to shut the door ever since. They also brought us the Korean and Vietnam Wars.
Good morning everyone.
I suppose someone needs to say, “Wait ’till next year,” but I’m afraid all the non-Mets fans would think I was talking about the Democrats.
I’m so glad I don’t die over baseball anymore, but I understand the phenonemon, being a Brooklyn fan and all.
On the other hand, being a political junkie is no more satisfying, when your Team/Party plays like this is a game.
So, Selise — what’s coming up in hearings this week?
Scarecrow @ 16
The Phillies won yesterday ;)
Elliott @ 18
careful now, we another sports on the lake spat saturday
raven @ 19
No spatting on the lake allowed.
A silly spat, IMO. I don’t like sports, much, but I don’t mind that other pups wander into it from time to time.
Please refresh my understanding/memory. I’m remembering that John Edwards’s proposed health care plan is NOT the single-payer system I thought he was backing.
Scarecrow @ 20
Are we allowed to wear spats?
Scarecrow @ 20
Ian is obviously brilliant but damn, a Saturday Night dissertation!
Will Bush publicly veto this bill?
From today’s Louisville Courier Journal on the SCHIP bill. Headline is that KY and IND won’t get as many benefits from SCHIP since there are more smokers, so more taxes will be paid.
In Micheal Moores film “Sicko” I really liked when he made the suggestion to call a “socialized” system a “christianized” medical system.
Stick the “sicko” contradictions in their faces.
Compassionate Conservatives in control and seems like our nation is on its way to hell. The Bush administration all ready turned Iraq into a living hell.
OT – well, since scarecrow went OT early in his own thread… i won’t wait to post the weekly congressional hearings list info. *g*
looks like the two big hearings this week are the hearings with goldsmith (The Terror Presidency) and prince (chair of blackwater). looks like there are scheduled to be held at the same time! :(
Here’s my short list:
Tuesday, 9:30 am – House Energy and Commerce
Digital Future of the United States: Part VI: The Future of Telecommunications Competition
Tuesday, 10 am – Senate Judiciary
Preserving the Rule of Law in the Fight Against Terrorism
Witness: Jack Landman Goldsmith
Tuesday, 10 am – House Oversight and Government Reform
Hearing on Private Security Contracting in Iraq and Afghanistan
Witnesses to include Erik Prince, Chairman, Blackwater USA
Wednesday, 10 am – Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works
To hold hearings to examine the Nuclear Regulatory Commission’s reactor oversight process.
Wednesday, 10 am – House Financial Services
The Fight Against Global Poverty and Inequality: the World Bank’s Approach to Core Labor Standards and Employment Creation
Wednesday, 10:30 am – House Education and Labor
Hearing on “The Perspective of the Families at Crandall Canyon”
Thursday, 10 am – House Oversight and Government Reform
Hearing: Assessing the State of Iraqi Corruption
for details and links see the complete week’s list of hearings.
selise @ 11
It’s that “I got mine…” attitude. Pure Sean Hannity. if you listen to him on th eradio, he is alwys going on about how he doesn’t get to keep enough of what he earns and how the gov’t in doing income redistribution.
It shows such a complete lack of empathy.
Scarecrow @ 16
you beat me to it!
i always have trouble figuring out what to put on the “short list.” this time i left off hearings on mine safety, pandemic preparedness, Darfur, VA funding, law of the sea, counter narcotics in Afghanistan, cost of mass incarceration, costs of nuclear waste, biolabs, environmental justice, immigration detainee medical care, and a bunch more. hopefully pups will check out the complete list if any of these topics are of interest.
msmolly @ 21
Kucinich proposes single payer. He is alone.
Edwards is relying primarily on employer-based insurance, but mandating and helping to finance it through tax incentives. Individuals also must procure insurance, and some are subsidized or given access to government-financed systems.
The interesting question for me is whether there is easy ability for people to choose to move from private insurance plans to public financed. Is that a mechanism to transition to single-payer? And how long would it take?
Hillary mimics Edwards, and emphasizes choice. So the question becomes whether they proposed these mostly insurance-based schemes as a pragmatic way to get started on getting everyone covered, while expecting that over the long run, the single-payer system would emerge? Or have they set the debate back by not being explicit about where this could wind up, because they’re afraid of the “socialized Medicine” debate. My posts are leaning towards this second view.
We really need to take the bull by the horns and desensitize the american public to several of the sound bites that republicans have used for years to keep us “under their spell” and unable to distinguish fact from fiction.
Socialism is not a bad word. The greatest countries in the world have adopted some forms of socialism mixed with regulated capitalism.
My hope is that Americans never forget what happens when you let corporate america make their own rules. They need to be regulated, and the down jones does nothing to regulate the morality of the corporate machine.
Peace is not a bad word. It has long term benefits despite the fact that there is no profit for corporations, in the short term, by resolving and avoiding violent conflict long term benefits to quality of life, strength of economy do occur. Destruction absolutely has a way of causing the need for rebuilding. But what it destroys in the process, and the people who are benefited most do nothing to improve the whole of society. In that sense war benefits only the very wealthy corporate machine.
Taxes are not a bad word. They are the way every society takes care of it’s people. It is the way we build roads, repair bridges, take care of the sick and the poor, which in turn decreases crime rates, which benefits us all. Taxes must be regulated through a system of checks and balances but taxes are not inherently evil nor do they “ruin” an economy. Many economies with high taxes do very well economically, but it depends on what you are measuring. Quality of life should be the goal, not profit.
Dems need to stop running from these words. The very act of running reinforces the notion that we have something to fear by the words themselves. This behavior must be stopped. It is bad for america to let the republican sound bites dominate the american narrative.
I wish dems would learn that with every action there is an emotion. When you have “fear” about something that has no valid risk to life or well being, you reinforce the emotion and give it validity. The dems run every time these words are used. The words, the ideas, the concepts do not create a risk to any one’s life or well being. The fear is unjustified. Therefore the only valid reaction by dems and us alike should be to CONFRONT THE FEAR. It will only decrease if we are willing to do this.
Scarecrow great post…a good beginning to decreasing the fear in america about socialism, but we don’t have to deny that we have socialism in our country. We need to embrace it. There should be absolutely no fear as long as capitalism is allowed to flourish with it.
msmolly @ 21
Although I do support Edwards I find his, and every other candidate’s health plan seriously lacking.
Coming from Europe, where health care is affordable (free) and easily and quickly available (despite having to wait for voluntary cosmetic surgery) I find the health system over here as nothing to do with health and everything to do with profit.
My primary care physician and I have recently had a set to with me finally telling him to stop working for the bloody insurance companies and think about his patient first (I needed medicine that my insurance company decided I did not need) my doc basically threw up his hands in surrender and tried to figure another method of care. Thank goodness for alternatives to the white coats… a few pin pricks from acupuncture and I was OK.
We will eventually have a single payer system in this country the question is when. Right now any candidate that can get elected does not have the balls to take on the insurance companies.
I haven’t read the comments but I wonder why the USA needs to demonise everything that doesn’t create corporate profits as being ’socialised’ and as such ‘evil’.
The USA needs to realise that citizens of many other countries have a sense of being “free” and do not perceive ’socialisation’ with the same mindset and have no such concept of of ‘evil’.
I take my hat off to JH in her fight to live a full life and I am struggling too but I am winning (I think) but these chemos can leave you so devastated.
It drives me nuts when the crazy right-wingers speak:
It might better be thought of as a “double-payer system” in which the states and the federal government put up the money,
“..try to frighten Americans about the evils of “government-sponsored” health care”
We need to stop them in their tracks and stop calling it government, state, or federal healthcare. And addressed it as “taxpayer sponsored.” Who pays the salaries, retirement, and healthcare of the senators, congress, vp, pres., DOJ, policemen, firemen, soldiers, etc…? We the US Taxpayers do. Who pays for the public buildings, firehouses, police stations, schools, the Whitehouse, Governor Mansions, Camp David, National Parks, public zoos, libraries, bridges, highways, military bases? We the People pay for it all. And it’s time we gave back to us. Those SOB’s don’t want to share our money with the citizens of this country. They think it should go to no-bid contractors, their rich welfare corporate buds, pre-emptive wars and occupations. The Gravy Train is pulling into the station and we need to boot their sorry, taxpayer overfed asses off.
Scarecrow at 30
I think they are all still in terror of what happened to the original “hillarycare.”
I tihnk her original and continuing mistake is believing that if she gve the big health insurance companies a seat at the table, they will not swiftboat her.
Edwards is making the same mistake.
You try to placate the man eating beast that wants to devour you, you either kill it before it kills you, or you run away. Standing there saying “if I give my arm to eat, do you pomise not to take a leg as well?” is just batshit crazy.
Here’s a question for the presidential debates on both sides: “We spend about 15% of the GNP on health care each year, for a total of about 1.85 trillion dollars. How would your health care plan change that figure?” (Numbers from memory, may need fixing)
looseheadprop @ 34
Yes, I think they’ve been far to cautious, and the insurance industry is going to fight them anyway. SiCKO gave them an opening, and they ducked. I was hoping they would at least explain the larger choices we have; instead, they got bogged down in details of how to make this work through the insurance paradigm. — It’s incredibly complicated, and no one understands the details, and in the end, it will fail. The key is to build/guard the pool of guaranteed care, financed through taxes.
I suspect the number one complaint of those with insurance is denial/delay/hassle with claims — and the Dems aren’t gabbing that issue, even though millions of people have experience the abuse.
selise @ 28
COST OF MASS INCARCERATION???
Here’s a question, do federal government workers including the pres, vp, senators, congresscritters, supreme court justices pay into social security, medicare, and a pension? Or do they get a free ride off the taxpayers when they retire?
The health care complex used to be mostly doctors and hospitals, but with the advent of corporatized medicine, it has added the power of concentrated cash. There is every reason to think that the business majors who control the money will attack change, because change worth doing will cut cash from the system. Attacking the Democratic health care plans makes good business sense when their system is working, but maybe enough of us don’t think it is any more, and change will come.
Scarecrow @ 16
Well, I am a Brooklynite who happens to be a life-long Phillies fan. (Rollins for MVP!).
-MS
Loo Hoo. @ 37
i *think* it’s about our “normal” levels of mass incarceration (which i believe are close to the worst anywhere in the world)…. not some new ICE/DHS program.
the witnesses include:
Dr. Glenn Loury, Economics and Social Sciences Professor, Brown University
Dr. Bruce Western, Director Inequality and Social Policy Program, Harvard University
Alphonso Albert, Executive Director, Second Chances
Michael Jacobson, Executive Director, Vera Institute for Justice
Michael in Park Slope @ 40
OK if it is sports lets congratulate the USA rugby team for playing valiantly while losing. Curse the Irish for losing, congratulate Fiji for beating Wales in a fantastic match and while we are at it lets fire coach Ryan for being bloody stupid.
LHP are you enjoying the world cup?
It’s easy to understand why Bush is against SCHIP. If everyone can get healthcare, what’s the point of being born into a wealthy family? The advantages of the silver spoon are slowly being lost. For Bush, that will not stand.
selise @ 41
Thanks, the antennae on the tin foil began twisting.
Socialized
Doesn’t sound so bad to me.
The point made in the NYTimes piece was made clear in Sicko. Michael Moore’s film should be mandatory viewing for all Congresscritters and Blight House simians.
katie Jensen @ 31
Katie,
Add a couple links and a nice picture at the top and you’ve got an excellent fron pager there.
You are spot on
Adorable Billy Kristol is as certifiable as John Bolton. He always smiles inappropriately but he outdid himself when he said he’s “happy when the president is willing to do something bad for the kids” with a huge, gleeful, evil grin. He revealed his inner self.
Doesn’t he realize that kids dead or impaired by no health care leaves fewer to grow up to fight in the wars he so desperately want? TIC
The Boomers are living longer than anyone thought and by all accounts many have not saved enough money for retirement. The big three auotmakers are whinning that providing medical benefits for their workers adds to the price of their cars and makes them uncompetitive.
So we have the largest generation soon to be in need of more healthcare plus they don’t have the money to pay for it. We have companies that produce good paying jobs say its to expensive to pay for healthcare.
Now are not drugs cheaper in other countries? Isn’t health care cheaper in other countries?
Seems to me that if we have Boomers and Blue Collar workers behind us and cheaper total healthcare spending plans that cover everybody already working in other countries as an example to follow. Then whats the hold up.
The Healthcare industry and their GOP puppets are the holdup. They have demonized the issue. What if we stop being nice and use their oppostion to this issue to demonize them!
Thanks for this, Scarecrow.
If we could get the VA program extended to all Americans, our auto companies wouldn’t be about to go belly-up right now from health care costs.
Kate Jensen @ 31: I agree, but the problem is that the Democrats are still acting and thinking as if it’s 1994, when they lost both Houses of Congress for backing Clinton’s tax hike (a tax hike that saved our economy and made the 1990s Clinton Boom possible).
So why is “socialized” medicine worse than (or even much different from) “socialized” education, street repairs, water/sewer systems, etc. etc.
Scarecrow @ 13
John Bolton is a member of the “cakewalk in Iraq” psychopaths club.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1
471879,00.html
“The Bolton confirmation hearings have revealed his constant efforts to undermine Powell on Iran and Iraq, Syria and North Korea. They have also exposed a most curious incident that has triggered the administration’s stonewall reflex. The foreign relations committee has discovered that Bolton made a highly unusual request and gained access to 10 intercepts by the National Security Agency, which monitors worldwide communications, of conversations involving past and present government officials. Whose conversations did Bolton secretly secure and why”
I watched the Bolton nomination hearings and I will never forget the faces of Senators Kennedy, Biden, Lincoln Chaffee, Kerry and Dodd. They were pissed that the Bush administration continued to refuse to turn over access to those intercepts.
ironranger @ 49
Another “I’ve got mine” person.
nomolos @ 43
The other night I was watching french language news reporting on PBS, and the anchor wwas reporting the Fiji WIn over Wales, I had to stop what I was doing to concentrate becasue, for minute, I thought I had mistranslated.
The fench news ran tons of highlights, the story dominated the broadcast.
On the other hand when Rugby Imports and Rugby&Soccer supply sent the emails with the advertisments for the replica jersys (all ready being maked down), I could not get over how freakin UGLY they were.
Brig back REAL rugby kit, itchy jerseys with real collars (for those so illegal judo collar tackles)and the rubber buttons, real drawstring shorts made of cotten twill –WITH POCKETS, wool socks that need ties to stay up.
None of this microfiber shit. That’s for practice, not for games.
Speaking of Bolton
my bold
What does he mean, the perception that we have passed beyond history?
Fern @ 53
It cheapens all the hard work that goes into being born into a wealthy family.
We need the Democrats to make a stand! We need them to put up a bill saying all Politicans, their dependents, and People who work for them who vote against the SCHIP program will lose their government provided medical benefits.
We get the Democrats to lean on their members to produce a unanimous Democratic vote on the issue and force Bush to veto it.
We produce budgets with no healthcare funding for Politicans, their Dependents, and the People who work for them who vote against SCHIP and force Bush to veto it.
We want Bush to look petty trying to protect his access to free healthcare by elbowing aside a child in line at the Doctors office.
“…United States has the second worst newborn mortality rate in the developed world”
http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH…..index.html
Why does Bush hate America’s children?
things come undone @ 60
Brilliant, I can see the ad now!!
my bold
“we have passed beyond history”, he said.
I think that’s Victor David Hansonesque armchair warrior mysticism.
looseheadprop @ 56
It was a great match and yes…form fitting shirts are definitely NOT for me. And that new ball… the world has gone to hell!
Phoenix Woman @ 51
i think NAFTA might have had something to do with the loss also…. taxes motivated the republicans and NAFTA demotivated the base.
looseheadprop @ 56
heheheheh..love it. And the shoes? Hmmm, the shoes?
katie Jensen @ 31
This is totally accurate.
Taxes Boo! Socialism Boo!
Anyone remember that Simpson’s episode where Lisa became Prez, and rather than say taxes, she used some euphimism like “economic adjustment” or something else, but more clever?
katie jensen — good points; language is important and we have to reclaim ours.
I was checking out a link to FDL in a post by a right-wing professor somewhere, and after reading one of my posts, he declared (1) I hate the military (no, but I did hate basic training in El Paso Texas, in August, among other things) and (2) I am a “Marxist-Leninist” [I guess that means I need to quit my job explaining the merits of competitive, bid-based spot markets in electricity dispatch regimes to state regulators.] Oh well.
Morning, all! Morning Scarecrow! Forgive me if anyone has already pointed this out, but I think you misspelled “hats” as “posteriors” *g*.
RockPaperScizzors @ 61
I always wonder when I read things like this, at what point does a miscarriage change over to an infant death?
and is it the same/consistent in all countries — for the point of calculating theses mortality rates?
Phoenix Woman @ 51
Careful what you wish for, the VA sucks!
RockPaperScizzors @ 34
AMEN
When ever Republicans claim they are the party of big business wether it is to oppose tax increases (made necesary by a falling dollar and inflation). Enviromental rules as to costly, never mind the increase in polution related medical bills and that we are falling behind Europe and Japan in alternative energy.
We have to bring up the total cost per person for healthcare spent in America compared to other countries.
We have to say stop repeating your socialized medicine talking points that were old when Regean still had an acting carreer.
Bottom line which system costs more per person? Bottom line which system covers everybody? France, England, Canada etc, does our system cover everybody?
No, but our system costs more.
There you have it the reason why GOPers should not be allowed near a checkbook.
Fern @ 53
At last check, they’re trying to destroy those too, with vouchers, privatization, etc. Gah.
As a U.S. military retiree (20 years), I’ve had government-sponsored, civilian-delivered health care ever since my retirement in 1990. It’s cheap ($460/year for my wife and me), the co-pays are almost nominal ($3/prescription, $12/doctor visit) and when wifey and me got hitched 10 years ago, there were no questions asked about any pre-existing conditions she might have had, nor did it matter that she wasn’t my spouse at any time during my military service. We have had our share of fairly serious medical situations and my insurance has never been withheld for any of them, nor have I ever been hassled in any way for anything I have asked for.
But here’s the catch: If I’m not mistaken, when I hit age 65, these bennies stop and I’m shifted over to Medicare.
Badwater @ 58
*snerk*
There goes my morning coffee! ;-)
Actions in support of SCHIP: From MSNBC
Scarecrow @ 66
that’s as funny as the time one of my comments (from glenn’s blog, i think) was used for a post (in lgf, think) to say i was advocating violence against the gov. and how dangerous us liberals / dems are. which is kinda a hoot, given how much time i spend advocating for nonviolence.
still, freaked me out a bit.
Good morning all. Christy is upstairs here.
Elliott @ 69
If I’m not mistaken, the term “newborn” refers to children already born (by whatever means, at whatever length into term). However, I can never keep up with R redefining, so who knows.
Christy has a a new thread ready.
Here in Oregon we have Measure 50 – The Healthy Kids Initiative on our ballot this November. It is very similar to and in fact will work right along with SCHIP on the state level. In order for our Democratic legislature to get it on the ballot it had to presented as an amendment to our Oregon state Constitution. Basically because the Republicans in the legislature didn’t want the Democrats to have another victory. Lots of legislative shenanigans never the less.
I wrote the following letter to my local newspaper:
It’s important for everyone to remember that Health Care is about protection and security.
Phastphil,
Good letter to the editor. Covers a lot of important points. Will you tell us if they print it?
Elliott @ 69
Table A. Deaths, age-adjusted death rates, and life expectancy at birth, by race and sex; and infant deaths and mortality rates, by
race: United States, final 2004 and preliminary 2005
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/h…..bles.pdf#A
selise @ 11
Sometimes?
Just a friendly reminder: Pretending to be someone you’re not via your screen name (sockpuppeting) is cause for banning here at the Lake.
during WWII there WAS socialized health care.
and childcare.
where did it go??
and Bill the butcherKristol keeps saying , they wanna give healthcare to people 2-3 x the poverty line!!!
*gasp!!
the hell you say!!
so ya mean like , an income of 20g’s instead of 9g’s??
the nerve of those rich bastards!
wanting healthcare for their kids!
its a clear assault by ruling class elites on the working class.
The Lurking Mod @ 85
ya mean scarecrow ISNT really a scarecrow???
egregious @ 82
Received an email last night asking for verification that it was fact me and that indeed I wanted it published. (their usual procedure) Hopefully it will be in the paper this week.
kulshan @ 87
just for clarification….. I am NOT a Mountain in the pacific northwest.
kulshan @ 89
And I’m not really an adjective. Just so you know.
RockPaperScizzors @ 83
Thank you for the link!
katie Jensen @ 31
Brilliant!!!
selise @ 42
i hope someone brings up one horrific cost – new incidences of AIDS
egregious @ 90
Well I actually AM, in fact, a small hawk.
That’s why my responses are often so slow – ever tried to type with a beak?
looseheadprop @ 35
Not exactly — what he’s trying to do is appeal to the people who think “single payer” will take away their ability to choose a doctor, hospital or other type of care.
So it’s a two-pronged program designed not to scare the Nervous Neils and Nellies. If it’s done right the single payer side of the equation will give better and less expensive care to its subscribers, and eventually everyone will switch to it…voila! Single payer.
RockPaperScizzors @ 39
No, we don’t get a “free ride.” (And as a Federal employee, I’m damned insulted by that statement.)
We pay into Social Security, Medicare, and our pension fund in addition to our own version of a 401(k), the Thrift Savings Plan. We also pay taxes, Federal, State and Local. We also have to pay our share towards our health insurance, and most of these plans have co-pays.
Where in Ghu’s name do you get the idea that anything a civil servant gets is “free?”
Let’s not forget all those “phony” members of the military who also enjoy socialized health care.
Brisingamen @ 96
I knew fed employees that didn’t pay into Soc. Sec. and medicare
All members of Congress, the President and Vice President, Federal judges, and most political appointees, were covered under the Social Security program starting in January 1984
Executive and judicial branch employees hired before January 1, 1984 were given a one-time irrevocable choice of whether to switch to Social Security or stay under the old CSRS.
So there are still some Federal employees, those first hired prior to January 1984, who are not participants in the Social Security system
http://www.ssa.gov/history/hfaq.html
RockPaperScissors @98:
But while the CSRS employees do not pay into Social Security, they DO pay into Medicare.
The only way they can collect on Social Security is if their spouse is entitled, and any benefits they might receive are subject to the Pension Offset (which means they get little in the way of SS bennies). Those who jumped to FERS mostly did so because they were exempted from the Pension Offset rule and to take advantage of the Thrift Savings Plan.
But even before 1984, Feds still had to contribute part of their income to their own pensions under CSRS, still had to pay their share of premiums for whatever health insurance plans they were covered under, and started paying into Medicare in the 1970s when Congress was attempting to increase its solvency.
And being a Federal employee does not exempt anyone from paying taxes; so I can’t see how you could figure it to be a ‘free ride.’
Please people – for the love of God – or Dog!
A great plan exists – SB840!
CA Senator Sheila Keuhl (D. Santa Monica). A comprehensive, single-payer, plan that covers all California residents. It gets rid of the insurance industry and uses their 30% profit margin to conver the uninsured. Some bright candidate should give Sheila a call and adopt her plan as part of a presidential platform. Sheila can be reached at (916) 651-4023. If there is a better plan – what is it?
Medicare for All
Single-payer is better referred to as “Medicare for All” precisely because this name ties it to a particular program that the voter knows perfectly well is not “socialized medicine”.