What really steams me is the very arrogant and IMO extremely immoral, and very risky idea that ‘of course the US will be in Iraq a long time becasue we have “interests” in the region.’ Whence comes that wisdom? I think mainly from shady ’scholars’ who hide out in high toned think tanks, and decree that even asking or wanting to debate the question is a foolish waste of time that is beneath them.

Seems to me that having large garrison and airbases in Iraq should a big issue that is vigorously debated in out in the open. It is a decison that will effect national security for decades, thousands and thousands of lives, and will mean hundreds of billions of dollars expenditure for indefinite future.

I did an internet search trying to find out history of large US forces stationed permanently in Middle East. Could not find a complete history, but from what I did find, it looks like the big bases and big forces stationed in the Arab Middle East thing started with the First Gulf War in 1990-1991. Seems like we got through quite a few crises, from Suez canal, to several wars, Lebanese civil war, etc. without large bases there. Jeez, we got through the Cold War without large bases there, from what I can read on the innertubes.

Am I wrong? Anyone know?

If it is so, why do we need them now? Who the hell is threatening the oil? Or is this about just wanting it at a cheap price, so will use force and war crimes to keep other countries from making deals? That would be a total moral and practical failure. A crime and a blunder.

Any scholar or suppsed expert that refuses to face an open and lengthy debate about this, and be prepared to defend their position should be publicly labeled as a FAKE, and a SCOUNDREL.

Here in SF, I’m blessed to see that good work often; every week (and almost every working day) I’m referring our clinic patients to “religious-run” (sorry for made-up word) medical services because the public system is just overwhelmed.

I’m grateful for their work and your good news, Demi.

And with you happy news, this pup is headed off to cuddle with the kitties.

G’nite, folks.

RonD, that was a really good (but sad) Slate article you linked up on late night last night.

Thanks. I’ve checked in on the case from time to time, and it just so seemed to underline the topic of Teddy’s thread. Prejudice and opinion are one thing-but an empirical, real-time monitored case study is something else.

Story here.

Loo Hoo. @ 85

The people with the ability to think rationally vote. The real Christian vote.

Yes. I grew up going to lovely services and hearing uplifting sermons in mainstream Protestant churches. Some wonderful Catholic clergy enriched my cousins’ lives.

And with the cynical “religious Right”, people with no exposure to Christ’s words and teaching equate “Christianity” with evil men like Falwell.

I can’t wait to see the majority of American believers in Christ’s teachings reclaim the word “Christian” from the power-mad, values poor Dominionists.

It’s being worked on.
Do you see the good work that those who do believe in Christ’s teachings?
It’s happening.
When people have the courage to bring any good news to this site they are usually either ignored or smacked down.
We see what we want to see, I think.

selise and others will liveblog, unless Christy or Jane or Emptywheel front page it. This will be a good one. Tempted to take the day off, but no…

* anti man-on-dog * vote! Good one, mm.

Can’t take credit, that was oddmommy. It confuses me sometimes when we are on the same thread :0)

But evil is real too, I think. And I don’t think there is often a clear line that can be drawn.

Take, oh, my favorite antichrist, dick cheney, for example…….plenty of evidence to suggest he’s pathologically paranoid and God know what other DSM-IV code. But you’re never gonna convince me he’s not evil.

BigMitch @ 118

Hey, O/T, but I must share.

Today, I had a job interview. (I really need a job!) One of the questions was if I was a take charge guy or a team player. So, I quoted someone I heard right here. S/he cited an African proverb:

“If you want to travel fast, go alone. If you want to travel far, go together.”

They REALLY liked that!

heh. I first read that as:

“If you want to travel fast, go online. If you want to travel far, go together.”

And if you want to travel fast and far, go online to the lake, for group mind.