Erm…The Burmese have been engaged in mass non-violent protest…and they are nonetheless mowed down. The whole non-violent protest/Gandhi schtick works only when your opposite force is not MORE than willing to mow you down en masse. A nonviolent mass protest by Jews against Nazis in 1920-30s Germany would have failed miserably as the opponent, the Nazis, would have been more than happy to gun down every last single peaceful protester.

I’m just saying…

the purpose of nonviolent protest is NOT to avoid harm. it is to act in support of some purpose you are willing to risk harm FOR. in that respect it is similar to violent resistance. another similarity is that there are no guarantees of success. good planning, intelligence, organization and training are important in nonviolent resistance just as in violent resistance. the big difference (not the only one) is that in nonviolence one attempts to avoid DOING harm.

and please get your history right – nonviolent resistance was, on occassion, used successfuly against the nazis.

i am so sick of people making claims about nonviolence that only show their ignorance of both nonviolence and history.

Laura Doty @ 100

Iran-Contra II–the characters haven’t changed and neither has the plot.

No wonder they had to get rid of the pesky Taliban religious zealots in Afghanistan. Now they can grow all the poppies they want.

Funny how Feith, Perle, Cheney and Hastert have receded into the background.

Laura Doty @ 17

It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to visualize one day being pulled over by a Blackwater patrol unit and being hauled away to an undisclosed location.

Oh boy. There’d be a “problem” with me in these instances. I don’t recognize Blackwater’s (or any other private thug group’s) legitimacy as a “law enforcement” organization. They are brownshirts as far as I’m concerned and have EXACTLY the same legitimacy.

…
Their crap is unacceptable in Iraq but it is TRIPLY unacceptable here in the USA.

A gang like the crips and bloods has a code of conduct, colors, leaders and guns. Blackwater is like that too. The police and federal government tries to put the crips & bloods out of business.

So far this gang of thugs has been using a fairly simple psychological technique to get acquiescence or even assistance from people. They find a goal that someone or a group want and they pretend to adopt it to get that groups support.

For example, on 9/11 the Rockefellers and others got rid of the WTC towers. Did they realize they were also acquiescing to all the other junk the Bush mafia was going to do?

When the Bush mafia said they’d spend us into debt to keep the evil Liberals from creating more social programs like health care reform I’m certain they got a lot of support from groups which hated health care reform or other Liberal programs. Did those folks also acquiesce to the weakening of the federal government in the face of a need to rebuild the military after this Afghan-Iraq adventure?

I suspect the reason some people are acquiescing on the loss of Constitutional rights is they’ve been sold a bill of goods. They want the current government to fail, so they can have a new Continental Congress to create a new Constitution. Why? Maybe it’s religious groups who see this Liberal government as a failure that is letting America’s Values be debased with drugs licentiousness and the like. Did those folks also buy into all this other destructiveness, Blackwater and possibly a dictatorship?

I suspect a lot of folks are truly afraid after 9/11 and really do want a McCarthy-esque domestic spying program to keep us safe from terrorists and sympathizers. So, they would easily by into the NSA spying program. Did they also acquiesce to Bushies using information gained to blackmail people and to keep an eye on political opposition?

What if, in the name of ‘cleaning out the vipers nest’ or of dispersing Blacks who tend to vote Democratic, some people bought into the idea that Washington DC is the problem and that the quickest way to solve that ‘problem’ and to get on with creating a newer better capital which is perhaps safer placed inland, the Bushies are going to be allowed to destroy Washington? Would those who want that, in the name of having a safe capital (or fewer concentrated populations of Dem-voting Blacks) far inland, also acquiesce to hundreds of thousands being killed?

People are being manipulated!

Better get ready, there’s a storm a comin’.

Fight election fraud!
Elect strong independent leaders!
Know what your Values are and fight for them.

jayt @ 90

SanderO @ 71

Feith, Perle, Cheney and Denny Hastert.

Iran-Contra II–the characters haven’t changed and neither has the plot.

No wonder they had to get rid of the pesky Taliban religious zealots in Afghanistan. Now they can grow all the poppies they want.

selise @ 131

i’m with you on the “swagger talk” but numbers do matter, if we use them wisely. it means if we stand together, refuse to be intimidated and refuse to comply – they can’t control us.

And “wisely” means relentless concerted peaceful action so that it never comes to getting ruthlessly mowed down en masse by Blackwater types in our streets. “Numbers” won’t mean shit against the heavily armed and ruthless should civil process fail.

Erm…The Burmese have been engaged in mass non-violent protest…and they are nonetheless mowed down. The whole non-violent protest/Gandhi schtick works only when your opposite force is not MORE than willing to mow you down en masse. A nonviolent mass protest by Jews against Nazis in 1920-30s Germany would have failed miserably as the opponent, the Nazis, would have been more than happy to gun down every last single peaceful protester.

I’m just saying…

Oklahoma kiddo @ 15

It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to visualize one day being pulled over by a Blackwater patrol unit on some highway in Anytown, U.S.A. and being issued a speeding ticket

It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to visualize one day being pulled over by a Blackwater patrol unit and being hauled away to an undisclosed location.

Oh boy. There’d be a “problem” with me in these instances. I don’t recognize Blackwater’s (or any other private thug group’s) legitimacy as a “law enforcement” organization. They are brownshirts as far as I’m concerned and have EXACTLY the same legitimacy.

With the shit coming down on Blackwater at the moment, one can hope that they are gutted before the GOP convention. It would be so great to see them in receivership over their murdering and abuse. Their crap is unacceptable in Iraq but it is TRIPLY unacceptable here in the USA.

And “wisely” means relentless concerted peaceful action so that it never comes to getting ruthlessly mowed down en masse by Blackwater types in our streets. “Numbers” won’t mean shit against the heavily armed and ruthless should civil process fail.

When dealing with mercenaries, I don’t believe that “concerted peaceful action” will necessarily keep you from being “ruthlessly mowed down en masse”. Might just make it a hell of a lot easier to kill you.

scary.