The Jena 6 marches and their aftermath took a lot of people by surprise, and not just liberal bloggers (myself included). I think the folks most taken aback were the wingnutosphere and their audience, i.e., comfortably smug white conservatives, the kind who think The Bell Curve “made sense” — embodied by John Gibson and Bill O’Reilly — who were all, “Wha? Huh? What racism? I thought racism didn’t really exist anymore!”
Somewhat serendipitously, the marches took place just before the Senate made its historic vote passing a federal hate-crimes law that appears doomed to a George W. Bush veto — typically, on the flimsiest of rationales. No one in the media or among the pundit class seemed to notice (indeed, the hate-crimes vote barely appeared on the radar), but there actually was a profound connection between the two events.
Most of the debate over this bill has focused so far on its addition of a bias against gays and lesbians to the categories of hate-crime motives. This is what has gotten the religious right into an uproar, claiming — quite illogically and falsely, as Rick Perlstein has explained in some detail (as have I) — that somehow laws against bias crimes somehow create “thought crimes.”
What’s been obscured in this uproar is the reality of what the bill would actually accomplish — namely, federalizing a broad range of bias crimes involving violence against not merely gays and lesbians but blacks, Jews, Muslims, even whites and Christians.
Mind you, the legislation is carefully written to emphasize helping local law enforcement do its job — provide training, help identify bias crimes, provide funds for strapped prosecutors — and it specifically defers to local jurisdictions. At the same time it makes it possible for federal authorities to move in when local law enforcement fails to do so, particularly in any of the seven states that have no bias-crime law.
What that means is that if the act were somehow to survive Bush’s veto, travesties like the all-too-archetypical handling of the murder of Sasezly Richardson in Indiana a few years back — Indiana has no hate-crimes law, and so his killers were not charged with that — would not be as likely to occur. (The same is true in Wyoming, where Matthew Shepard, for whom the law is named, was murdered.) Prosecutors and cops would cease being quite so likely to dismiss crime scenes as potential bias crimes, and treat obvious hate crimes as just “boys being boys.”
This is what was happening in Jena, where the prosecutor gave the following excuse for treating white kids involved in the escalating racial tensions differently than blacks:
District Attorney Reed Walters, who is prosecuting the case, said Wednesday that race had nothing to do with the charges.
He said he didn’t charge the white students accused of hanging the nooses because he could find no Louisiana law under which they could be charged. In the beating case, he said, four of the defendants were of adult age under Louisiana law and the only juvenile charged as an adult, Mychal Bell, had a prior criminal record.
“It is not and never has been about race,” Walters said. “It is about finding justice for an innocent victim and holding people accountable for their actions.”
Of course, as Steven D at Booman notes, this is a prosecutor who believes Jena was narrowly spared a horrific rampage by violent black thugs only by the grace of Jesus’ hand. Sounds like he and Bill O’Reilly would have a great time together at a black restaurant.
But even presuming the best of intentions on the part of this prosecutor, there’s really no escaping the fact, as Jeralyn at TalkLeft has detailed, that he absurdly overcharged the young black men involved in the beating that resulted in their arrest at the center of the controversy. Perhaps even more importantly, he turned a real blind eye to the criminal misbehavior of the town’s young white men that played a real role in the escalating racial tension in Jena. As I already noted:
Actually, of course, the young white men who hung the noose could be charged with a number of crimes under Lousiana statute, particularly criminal intimidation and threatening with a bias motive, i.e., a hate crime. But like a lot of white prosecutors, it’s easier to see such behavior as “boys will be boys” when the perps are white than when they’re black.
Even giving Reed Walters the most generous benefit of the doubt, it’s clear that both he and the law officers at the scene of the nooses slung over the “white tree,” as well as subsequent confrontations (including one in which a young white man brandished a gun and had it wrested away from him by some of the black men he was pointing it at — resulting in the arrest of the black men for “theft” of the gun), failed to identify or investigate these incidents as potential hate crimes.
But then, they’re hardly singular in that regard. Indeed, the under-investigation and under-reportage of bias crimes is a widespread national problem. I published a piece earlier this week at Crosscut examining the extent to which Seattle police may be mishandling bias crimes when they encounter them, and as I explained then:
Crimes go unreported and uninvestigated all the time, of course, but when it happens with bias crimes, the result is especially poisonous for the larger community. Bias crimes are understood by experts to cause greater harm than ordinary crimes on three levels: the immediate victim, who typically sustains extraordinary psychological harm in addition to the extreme levels of violence that often occur in such cases; the minority community that is the larger target of the crimes, the underlying intent being to terrorize and drive them out; and the larger community, which then must wrestle with a blackened reputation and the internal animus and ethnic distrust created by the crimes.
So when police fail to respond adequately, the victim feels isolated, the target community believes it is not getting justice and can’t trust authorities to provide it, and the larger community finds whatever bridges exist between ethnic communities are crumbling under the weight.
As the piece explains, even a progressive city like Seattle whose police officials publicly endorse the serious pursuit of bias crimes can have problems handling them appropriately:
The underreportage of bias crimes is a widespread national problem. Some of the experts who’ve studied the issue say that while FBI statistics report about 8,000 bias crimes annually, the actual number might be closer to 50,000 a year. The problem is most severe in rural areas, where bias-crime prosecutions are a genuine rarity, but even in urban areas like Seattle bias crimes go unreported and uninvestigated fairly routinely.
A 2000 Department of Justice study looked at the underreporting of bias crimes and identified some of the causes:
– Fear of negative publicity, especially the kind that can damage a community’s reputation, often motivates officers and prosecutors to quietly treat obvious hate crimes as their lesser “ordinary” counterparts.
– Confusion about the definition of hate crimes and which acts need reporting, particularly arising from the many differences among various state laws and the murky federal statutes.
– Miscommunication between local and state reporting agencies, with the latter often reporting a bias crime simply as its parallel crime.
– “False zeroes,” or the reporting of zero crimes within a jurisdiction that in fact failed to report at all, which further skews the data regarding the actual rate at which hate crimes occur.
– The natural reluctance of victims (especially gays and lesbians who may fear being “outed,” or immigrants who might fear deportation) to report hate crimes or pursue charges, and the common failure of law-enforcement officials to either recognize or deal appropriately with this reluctance.
– A significant lack of training in identifying and investigating hate crimes, as well as in handling victims of the crimes. The smaller the department, the less likely it is to offer such training, which generally translates into severe undertraining in rural areas.
– A hostility to, or ignorance about, the concept of hate-crime laws, and a general over-eagerness to dismiss the bias aspects of crimes as a mostly “political” determination.
This last factor is especially potent among beat officers whose choices at the scene of a crime can determine what evidence is gathered and what direction an investigation takes. There is a certain level of resistance to bias-crime laws among law-enforcement officers, largely fed by a lack of understanding and training. Because bias-crime laws are often portrayed — falsely, and usually by opponents — in the media as creating “special rights” and “protected categories,” many police officers tend to see them as unnecessary genuflecting to the gods of political correctness and are reluctant to pursue evidence of them.
Prosecutors are vulnerable to similar biases and misconceptions as well. And in rural and suburban places — places like Jena — the problem is exponentially worse.
I examined this problem in some detail in my second book, Death on the Fourth of July: The Story of a Killing, a Trial, and Hate Crimes in America:
Perhaps the most significant feature of the DOJ’s study’s findings, from a larger cultural perspective, was that there was a close correlation between reporting of hate crimes and the level of training provided (some 75 percent of agencies that reported hate crimes also offered training, while less than 60 percent of the non-reporting and zero-reporting agencies offered any)—and simultaneously, found a correlation between hate-crime training and the size of the agency. The smaller the department, the less likely it is to provide such training—and likewise, less likely to report hate crimes.
Obscured by the numbers are their real-world ramifications for the American cultural landscape: the smaller the town, the smaller the department. This means in turn that, geographically speaking, the problem of hate crimes going not only underreported but uninvestigated and unprosecuted is most widespread in rural America. This coincides with the prevalence of anecdotes of unpursued bias crimes emanating from rural precincts. This in turn, makes the problem even more acute, since these same small towns may be the communities most vulnerable to suffering severe damage at the hands of hate-crime perpetrators.
Most significantly, this phenomenon in fact reflects the perceptions many minorities have of small, rural towns: that they are not safe for people of color or for gays. That if trouble were to erupt, there would be no one to help them, and law enforcement officers would be unsympathetic. That if someone were to commit a hate crime against them, there is a not unreasonable likelihood the perpetrator would get away with it.
The fear and suspicion with which rural denizens regard cities and their dwellers is a well-established American archetype. What is often less observed, but is equally true, is the sheer dread that rural America raises in the minds of those minorities whose populations are largely centered in urban areas. When they leave their familiar surroundings for the so-called heartland — where some 83 percent of the population nationally is white — it is often with real fear about what might befall them.
It is a mistrust bred partly of myth and partly of reality. Its consequences, whatever its cause, are profound on a broad scale, because its chief effect is to widen the already formidable cultural gap between white America and the rest of us.
I go on to describe an African American woman who is a Seattle Times columnist — a brave and thoughtful person — and her 2000 column detailing the abject fear she felt upon approaching the Idaho border. As I explain:
Perhaps of equal significance are the real-world ramifications of this fear for both minorities and the places they fear to visit: an impoverishment of the nation’s democratic underpinnings. As expert Donald Green points out, hate crimes succeed in making the nation indeed a smaller place for people like Lynne Varner.
“I think if you had to kind of step back and ask, ‘Does hate crime pay?,’ you’d say yes,” Green says. “If the point of hate crimes is to terrorize the population into maintaining boundaries between these perpetrators and the victimized populations, at least in some areas—certain parts of town, certain parts of the country, et cetera—you know, certain kinds of romantic relationships, whatever—then it does succeed in that. Because people really do feel that they have to constrain their behavior lest they open themselves up for attack. You know, gay men don’t often hold hands in public. Black and white couples don’t form spontaneously to the extent that you might expect based on their daily interactions.
“There are a lot of instances like that—and you know, we all probably have interactions with people who, when they’re invited to a certain part of town, say, ‘Oh, I better not go there.’ From my standpoint, you tend not to attract much notice from policymakers, but I think of that as a massive dead-weight loss of freedom.
“Even if you say, ‘Ah, well, they would have spent their money in this restaurant, maybe they’ll spend their money in some other restaurant,’ and so it’s a wash, just the fact that people feel less than free in a free country is a tragedy.”
Green also argues that even seemingly insignificant incidents—the kind police are prone to ignore or de-emphasize—can contribute to the cumulative effect. “If you see a swastika on an overpass, you say, ‘Well, you know, it’s just a bunch of kids blowing off steam, it doesn’t really mean anything,’ but when you start to think about the kind of cumulative effects that that would have on a variety of people, both perpetrators and victims, then the result is considerable.
“And that’s why I think that, while there’s a segment of the law-enforcement community — and even people like me in an unguarded moment — that will say that in some respects the hate crimes laws have been a flop, the laws in fact have a substantial basis in theory. And that theory is that if you could somehow put a value on that dead-weight loss in freedom, it actually would be a significant sum. And therefore it does pay society to deter this kind of activity.”
Bias-crime laws are a way for society to make clear its condemnation of such acts, recognizing them as more heinous than simple crimes because they cause greater harm. Indeed, pretending as opponents do that a cross burned on the lawn is the same as being egged and toilet-papered, or that a gay-bashing rampage by young thugs is the same thing as a bar fight, simply tries to pretend away the truly hateful and terroristic element of the former of these, as though it doesn’t exist. But it does exist, and its effects poison our society and make a joke out of our self-belief in ourselves as an “equal opportunity” society.
This, in the end, is the single clearest reason why progressives should avidly support a federal hate-crimes law: These are crimes whose primary purpose is to disenfranchise, to expel, to deny the most basic rights of association and opportunity to millions of Americans of all stripes. Civil libertarians need to come to grips with the fact that these crimes are real, their effects are real, and they represent, as Donald Green argues, a real “massive dead-weight loss of freedom” for those millions of Americans.
Americans lose their freedoms not just through government oppression; an honest appraisal of our history forces us to recognize that there is a substantial track record of Americans losing their freedoms (up to and including their lives) through the actions of their fellow citizens: the genocide of Native Americans; the long reign of terror of the “lynching era” and associated “sundown towns” that infected the entire nation; the expulsion and incarceration of Asian Americans; the long-running campaign of vicious hatred directed against gays and lesbians.
Hate crimes are an integral part of that history, and laws intended to punish their perpetrators with stiffer sentences are an important blow for the cause of very real and substantial freedoms for millions of Americans. Trying to argue that, in some esoteric sense, they constitute “thought crimes” that somehow deprive us of our freedoms (to what? commit crimes?) turns this reality on its head.
Yet progressives haven’t yet figured out that framing hate-crime laws as a defense of people’s civil liberties is precisely the argument that will instantly deflate the long-running “thought crime” argument. In all the debate over the legislation, I haven’t seen the point raised once.
As long as small-town — and even big-city — law-enforcement officers labor under misconceptions about bias-crime laws and fail to properly identify, investigate, or prosecute them, places like Jena are going to fester. And this is where the Matthew Shepard Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act comes in — because its primary mission is to help local law cops and prosecutors do their job well — by providing logistical and investigative support, grants, training, and other kinds of assistance.
It’s important to fight for this law because it’s a fundamental way of dealing with the racial divide in places like Jena — and indeed, for the greater share of the American landscape. If the training available to small-town cops and prosecutors weren’t enough to have helped them identify the bias crimes mounting in their midst, then at least the victims would have then had the option of seeking help from federal authorities, who could determine whether the case was properly handled by local authorities.
Without this kind of action, ethnic and other minorities are never going to trust that they will have access to equal justice in America. The already know, all too well, that racism and its ugly wounds continue to fester here, contrary to the comforting self-delusions of the O’Reillys and Gibsons of the world. Confronting bias crimes as the profoundly antidemocratic and unAmerican act they are is really only a decent first step in healing those wounds.
Hate-crime laws, as Death on the Fourth of July explains, are indeed relatively new insofar as they are now on the books. But attempts to pass laws like them date back to the anti-lynching laws of the 1920s and ’30s.
And the reality is that they represent the kind of law that should have been on the books long ago, because they play a substantial role in protecting individual freedoms for all Americans. This isn’t tinkering: It’s righting an omission.
Keep in mind that hate crimes historically represent an unofficial attempt at oppressing minorities — in the case of lynching, it in fact was a cornerstone of the Jim Crow system of racial oppression. They are clearly special “message” crimes whose primary intent is to deprive whole groups of Americans of their right to partake of democracy, and they clearly create substantially more harm across all sectors of society than ordinary crimes.
They are, as Ted Kennedy has forcefully argued this week, real acts of terrorism directed at American citizens. If 9/11 outrages us, then so must these smaller acts that spring from the same wellspring of unthinking hatred. It’s time, finally, to take seriously the important job of standing up to them.
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yo
David!!!
Hi David! Love your posts, so I’m off to read.
great work, daviid!
(now back to read the rest of it)
scarlet here… utterly off topic and blogwhoring as usual, though seeing signs about the Jena Six would be nice. Be quick about it if you’re going to do it around Jena though…
More signs:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..ancha.html
I figure if I just keep showing them to y’all eventully someone will figure “hey! I could do that!”
zed5
or 6
Bigotry is so ugly.
Did you know there are no gay Republicans or Iranians?
I just heard Sam Seder on the Ring of Fire podcast from last week. Sam was talking about Larry Craig and the Republican politicians and I think he was right on.
Sam said that the gay Republican politicians are in the closet and repressed. This explains their bizarre illegal behavior like Craig admittedly soliciting gay sex in an airport bathroom stall. It explains that Republican official in Florida recently caught trying to explain his buying a blowjob from an undercover police officer in a bathroom stall by saying he was afraid of black people. It explains Haggerty and his drug addiction and gay affair.
Sam said he personally knows of at least two other Republican Senators he thinks are gay. I’m guessing Lindsay Graham, a former JAG officer no less (a double whammy with the Republican we don’t want gays in the military policy).
Sam recounted how he walked the floor of the Republican convention trying to find a single person who would admit they were gay. He said he walked and walked. Finally someone took him aside and pointed him to an admittedly gay Republican delegate from Florida. Sam said the man was about 64 years old and had undergone a life changing self-realization. Sam said the man was almost crying as he told Sam, if I don’t stay here who will voice the opinion of gay people? That is the only gay person Sam could find. Right.
So all this brings me to, who else, the evil object of Republicans’ obsessions – Ahmadinejad. When asked about gay people at Columbia, Ahmadinejad said, oh no, we don’t have those kind of people in Iran. The crowd burst out laughing at how ridiculous and homophobic the statement was. That is how out of touch the Republican Party is today. No gays in Iran. No gays in the Republican Party.
PS Sam speculated that the person who had the enormous juice to set that gay prostitute up with a phony security clearance and press pass for hundreds of “social visits” to the White House is none other than Rove. That would be the ultimate irony. The master gay basher – the biggest of them all – pulling hundreds of Larry Craig’s in the White House. Seder speculated that shortly after the gay prostitute in the White House scandal a story was floated that Rove was having a heterosexual affair to act as cover for Rove’s real sexual orientation. It reminds me of hearing Palast say after reading hundreds of Rove’s emails which he accidentally sent to the wrong address (a friend of Palast’s), that he would not comment on Rove’s sexual orientation. Palast said it in such a way that raised an issue in my mind. Normally I couldn’t care less about a person’s sexual orientation, but it would be highly relevant for Rove because he is the ringleader of gay bashers in the Republican Party. Rove put the issue in play. Anyway, it’s all speculation, just based on someone else’s public statement.
I commented at several white power web sites in Alaska when they did their predictable takes on the Jena convictions. One showed pictures of the white kid whose licking caused the attempted murder and assault charges. He looked pretty beat up. But all these blogs failed to mention that the kid drove himself to a school dance that same evening.
I pointed out that I’d been beaten up a lot worse in high school, the Army and in Alaskan fishing town bars, and nobody had gone to jail, let alone gone to the police. Two people with whom I correspond fairly regularly about Alaska Native issues and coastal issues, beat the bejeezuz out of me 30 to 35 years ago. Sheesh, these white power people tend to be wusses.
Hey gang, I’m off to dinner, but I’ll check back in and answer questions if I can in about an hour/houranahalf.
Ed*ard Teller @ 9
That is why they are so violent. They are scared poo-less.
Even someone as smart and politically aware as Bill Maher misses the point of this legislation. His defense of “Boys will be Boys” was pretty well taken down by Michael Eric Dyson last night as Rahm Emmanuel sat by and watched, while he too should have been speaking.
The point of Hate Crimes Legislation is not to make it “Thought Crimes Legislation” but to help prosectors and police with the tools they need to pursue the assholes who slip away because of poorly written laws and such other trivialities as lack of funding.
It’s long since time for this. America can not truly begin to move on until it stops listening to John Gibson and Bill-O and starts listening to it’s heart and doing what is right for every American.
David,
Thanks for a long and probing examination of this issue. I marvel that you got all the way through it without once mentioning (or did I miss it?) the way the Bush DOJ perverted the Civil Rights Division at DOJ. Or didn’t that have any effect at all on this case?
Bob in HI
“They are, as Ted Kennedy has forcefully argued this week, real acts of terrorism directed at American citizens. If 9/11 outrages us, then so must these smaller acts that spring from the same wellspring of unthinking hatred. It’s time, finally, to take seriously the important job of standing up to them.”
Beautifully put. Thank you, David.
scarlet p. @ 5
Scarlet, I thought of you as I read this part of David’s post:
Green also argues that even seemingly insignificant incidents—the kind police are prone to ignore or de-emphasize—can contribute to the cumulative effect. “If you see a swastika on an overpass, you say, ‘Well, you know, it’s just a bunch of kids blowing off steam, it doesn’t really mean anything,’ but when you start to think about the kind of cumulative effects that that would have on a variety of people, both perpetrators and victims, then the result is considerable.
Great post. I must preface this by writing that I am for fierce enforcement of civil rights, but I have a problem with enforcing, “hate crimes.”
I am not a member of the criminal bar, but from what I remember there needs to be mens rea (intent) and actus rea (action) before any crime can be charged. If the intent of the crime is indeed to be found hateful–and I agree, killing an African-American by hanging him/her with a noose sends a message–where is the “extra” intent to file a separate hate crime charge? And, for that matter, the action? Will prosecutors include it as a lessor included offense, or a conspiracy to commit a hate crime?
bobschacht @ 13
I don’t know if that’s a “hate crime” per se, but that’s one of the crimes I hate the most…
Grrreat post…I’m going to have to kill a tree in order to read all of it. But thank you David for the thoroughness. I’m impressed FDL draws the kind of indepth coverage that, back in the day, one could find in the nyt.
bobschacht @ 13
I think Dave has commented about that at his blog. He does cite the 2000 DOJ bias crime study, which IIRC, Dave has written about in the past in relation to its later suppression by the Bushista regime civil rights division there.
Get Tough @ 16
It should be the greater Conspiracy charges as deliberate actions were taken and intended…!!!
Jo Fish @ 12
Bill Maher has some chubby blind spots.
It’s true David the “progressive” blogosphere was just a wee bit slow in their response to write ups about the Jena 6. Although as the saying goes “better late than never”
Amy Goodman the “queen” of the news world has been on this issue for over a year now at Democracy Now. She has a great deal of footage and information about the Jena 6 in her archives.
There is a National student walk out this Monday or the Jena 6 http://mxgm.org/web/
What’s the ACLU’s stand on this?
Kathleen @ 21
Heh, my daughter would’ve participated, if they had school Monday… They’re on Fall Break…!!!
jayt @ 22
ACLU
A friend e-mailed me today with a link to a speech by one of the major Democratic presidential candidates. This candidate addressed a myriad of issues relating to race and justice in a speech at Howard University. And not just the liberal pabulum, but the nuts and bolts of our criminal justice system. What really caught my eye (and probably my friend’s) was the call for, among so many other important things, qualified public attorneys. I’ve been a public defender for 20 years. Over time I have seen the laws grow more harsh, the judges less compassionate and more biased, and the sentences more inhumane. Each time we pass a law seeking higher penalties for crimes, we have to recognize that those most likely to be prosecuted will be the poor and people of color – often those least likely to afford to select their attorneys. Although I haven’t thought of myself as in this candidate’s camp (okay, I’ve been waiting for Gore to make my dreams come true), I no longer believe that this candidate will water down his message to appeal to the broadest group. To read the speech, check out this link (and I’m not sure if the link will work – I’m a bit challenged on posting here) -
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the_plank?pid=147530.
Well – it seems to work in the preview, so here goes…
That’s the reason my money is going to MoveOn and the ACLU instead of the Democratic Party. And can we name it something other than a party? How about the Democratic Community? Party sounds like, well, a party to celebrate the money.
Loo Hoo. @ 24
Hmmm… The opening paragraph, about sums it up…
“In the fall of 2006 in Jena, Louisiana, a small town that is 85% white, a series of events unfolded that have had critical consequences for those involved and which indicate an explosive racial justice situation in Louisiana. At Jena High School, students of different races rarely sat together, with black students typically sitting on bleachers and white students sitting under a large shade tree – referred to as the ‘white tree.’ The day after a black student asked the principal for permission to sit under the so-called ‘white tree,’ nooses were hung from the tree.”
The simple matter of it is: if your not a mover and shaker, and especially if you are not rich, you’re on your own.
Excellent, excellent post David. Makes me glad to be living in suburbia instead of a rural area.
Loo Hoo,
How ’bout Blue America?
More and Better D’s.
I saw Howie Klein the other night at a meeting.
The three of all went. It was a good thing.
Where’s Madmommy, she could certainly add her $.02 and I need to console her for the Tide’s lose…!!!
Jill @ 25
Jill, Hello and welcome! At least I’ve not seen you here before. The link is good, but there’s a monkey (ad) that keeps me from reading the article. Those monkeys are rascals.
demi @ 30
True, demi. The progressive candidates need our money. It’s just that some have been so disappointing…
Love ya, demi!
Thank you, David, your continued focus on this issue is much appreciated.
Hunting in gayblogworld for some additional news on the topic, I came across this tidbit. The son of environment-bashing Exxon lobbyist and White House climate change data-suppressor Philip Cooney is alleged to be a gay-basher:
link: http://pageoneq.com/news/2007/…..92907.html
Loo Hoo
YHM
(October birthday camping info. :))
I’ve read the bill twice now and still don’t quite understand it. It does not involve inherently federal crimes, they’re primarily to be state-enforced. But it seems to provide means for a state court to find that a criminal act, a single criminal act, is subject to both state and federal penalties. In other words, I see a potential double-jeopardy problem.
Also, despite the assertion above that it is not the criminalization of “thought crimes” – how else would one describe it? Some crimes are worse than others because of the subjective motivations of the defendant? Pretty much all violent crimes are the result of hate of one type or another, even if it be fleeting. Does a spouse who kills an adulterous mate hate any less than a skin-head hates a black person?
Feel free to flame and/or educate me, but I don’t like this one. Nor do I think that it passes constitutional muster.
Maybe it would pass if the subjective motivations of the defendant were only to be considered as a possible aggravating factor at sentencing, but I don’t like that either, because at bottom, this is the adding to the sentences meted out for activity which is already illegal, by reason of politically incorrect thought.
CTuttle @ 31
Ask and ye shall receive! Just got home from work and am catching up. I fell asleep last night watching the Brewers game and slept for 9 hours. Guess I was tuckered, but bummed at missing out on the friday nite firepups.
There has been a good bit of coverage in these parts regarding the Jena story. Unfortunately much has been made of the fact that M. Bell had a prior record, and not so much of the slap on the wrist the white kids got for hanging the nooses in the tree. It is also rarely mentioned that the white kid who was beaten spent 2-3 hours at the ER and drove himself to a dance later that evening. To me it comes down to equal justice under the law, if there were not such a huge disparity between the treatment of the white kids vs. the treatment of the black kids, I don’t think there would have been an issue. And please don’t even get me started on the absurd statement by the DA regarding the “guiding hand of Jesus”. Please.
The Tide was ranked for a week. It was nice while it lasted. Props to the Warriors, even throwing 5 INTs they still pulled it out.
How can you tell when Dana Perino is lying?
TeddySanFran @ 38
Her mouth is moving?
TeddySanFran @ 38
when her lips are moving.
Loo Hoo. @ 24
from the article:
At a September 17 event on New York’s City Hall, Donna Lieberman, Executive Director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, said, “The racism and injustice endured by the Jena 6 has all the hallmarks of the Jim Crow era: school officials complicit in racism; prosecutors treading lightly when it comes to whites while throwing the book at black youth; and an all white jury convicting a black teen now facing decades in jail.”
(snip)
That sounds to me much more like a complaint against a faulty local prosecutorial staff and lack of competence therein than it does any endorsement of Sen Kennedy’s bill.
jayt @ 36
All adulterous mates are not intimidated by the murder of one, nor are all adulterous mates meant to me intimidated by the murder of one.
The murder of an African-American by a skin-head, where the victim is chosen because of attributes shared with an entire community, terrorizes that entire community.
Hope that helps.
madmommy @ 39
I owe you a Coke
Racial Profiling in Irving?
from TalkLeft by TChris
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r…..193828/918
It is not ordinarily a crime to be in the United States without proper authorization. Police therefore have no right to detain individuals and command them to “show me your papers” when those individuals aren’t reasonably suspected of criminal activity. Immigration advocates believe that’s exactly what’s happening in Irving, Texas.
Father Pedro Portillo, of Santa Maria de Guadalupe Church in Irving, said he’s talked to several people who say they were approached by officers without cause and asked for immigration documents.
The suspicion is that Irving police officers are engaging in “racial profiling and overzealously arresting suspected illegal immigrants so they can be deported, a claim the Mexican Consulate takes so seriously it’s advising people to avoid driving through this Dallas suburb.”
Mexican Consulate staff in Dallas attempt to interview Mexicans being deported, and say that over the past few weeks it appears a disproportionate number have been from Irving. The consulate covers a huge area, from East Texas all the way to the Texas Panhandle, and Hubbard Urrea said about half those interviewed were from Irving, a Dallas suburb of 206,000.
jayt @ 36
Thank you, Jayt — I think, FWIW, that your analysis is spot-on. I have a real problem with criminalizing what looks like symbolic speech. How is hanging a noose from a tree Constitutionally different than Mr. Cohen walking into the Los Angeles County Courthouse wearing a jacket with “Fuck the Draft” written on it?
A most-excellent post!
A powerful narrative that deserves the widest possible exposure. Teachers should feel free to use this in any classroom. Let’s shove the notion of ’soft prejudice’ right back into ‘their’ faces. Low expectations, indeed. The low expectation of cowardice resides among too many ‘believers’ and manifests itself in every part of this nation
every minute of every day. This is so basic a truth that even the right should ‘get’ it.
Wonder what Condi, or Clarence think about this? Maybe O.J. is vexed. Even little george might find ‘Jena’ to remind him of something. Frogs, I suspect.
Elliott @ 43
Only the Real Thing, that diet crap is nasty :0)
This week the student news made a big deal about the 50th anniversary since Brown vs Board of Ed. Found it interesting to watch it with a class that was 95% non-white.
All adulterous mates are not intimidated by the murder of one, nor are all adulterous mates meant to me intimidated by the murder of one.
The murder of an African-American by a skin-head, where the victim is chosen because of attributes shared with an entire community, terrorizes that entire community.
Hope that helps.
And I would submit that proper and efficient enforcement of the crime committed by that skin-head would accomplish any possible de-terrorizing of that community, without the need of turning one crime into two.
TexBetsy @ 48
I saw a report recently that said the trend is back towards racially separate public schools. Wish I could remember where I saw it!
madmommy @ 47
only the real thing!
demi @ 35
Good deal! YGM.
But proper and efficient enforcement, when hampered by community norms, attitudes, and lack of training (as David described so clearly above) means not that one crime is turned into two, but that one crime, when motivated by hate, is turned into none.
Race will be a big issue in the election. We are being set up to defend civil rights. Black and brown people will start to be harassed. The right will reinvigorate their party with violence. Blackwater will be brought in to keep the peace.
madmommy @ 37
Whew, it’s been the upset weekend… I wonder if Auburn can do it too… It should be interesting how it all shakes out…!!! *g*
Essentially “bias” is a resource thing. It’s an economic deal.
madmommy @ 50
Krugman does an excellent job in pointing out who really are the Racists down South…!!!
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c…../#comments
CTuttle @ 55
We do not speak the name of that cow college in this house (makes the hex sign to ward of bad juju) except to rejoice in their defeat :0)
marymccurnin @ 54
And in that scenario we need to bring back 1877 and a nationwide general strike. It’s way past time that everyone on this side of the fence realizes that everyone, and I mean everyone, in DC is on the other side of the fence and does not intend to do a damn thing for us.
No more accepting little changes and acting as if we finally got them to listen to us, no more money for any politician who votes to keep troops in Iraq, and no more mister or ms nice guy when it comes to talking to these people.
TeddySanFran @ 53
True!!!
CTuttle @ 57
Interesting. Thanks.
TeddySanFran @ 53
But proper and efficient enforcement, when hampered by community norms, attitudes, and lack of training (as David described so clearly above) means not that one crime is turned into two, but that one crime, when motivated by hate, is turned into none.
Agreed. But since this law is primarily aimed at state, i.e. local, prosecution, those norms and attitudes may not change.
I have no huge problem with the portion of the law which involves for the provision of training and recognition of hate crimes (at least to the extent that it helps educate local law enforcement that the prosecution of these crimes is very important, for reasons you stated above). But there is no reason to single these out as something that requires different treatment. A murder is a murder, and the penalties are severe.
Is there such a thing as a politically-correct violent crime?
Hi James!
You are right. Did you see the Jon Stewart earlier this week or maybe last showing all of the Dem threats and then, cut to, the Web amendment?
madmommy @ 58
Even when it’s over the Gators in the Swamp…??? *g*
TexBetsy @ 61
You’re most welcome, Ma’am!!! *g*
Elliott @ 43
Bingo
CTuttle @ 23
Wear black on Monday
Kathleen @ 67
Can Do!!!
CTuttle @ 57
I was born in Mississippi,and raised in Georgia and Tennessee. I moved away and lived in Arizona, California and Colorado before moving to Louisiana, and this article doesn’t surprise me one bit. It was my experience that less well off folks were pretty decent, while the rich people were very entrenched in the status quo. The main thing I always noticed is that they wealthy people were just really good at hiding their true feelings behind smokescreens. This is speaking very generally, of course, there are jerks in every walk of life, as well as decent human beings.
To Burns and Jayt -
How is the bias/hate crimes legislation different for that imposing harsher penalties for aggravated assault vs. simple assault or for crimes under the influence?
The point of the legislation, as Teddy points out, is that hate/bias crimes are twofold. There is the physical crime (assault, vandalism, etc.) and there is an act of intimidation. The physical crime is directed at a single individual, but the intimidation targets a much larger group.
CTuttle @ 64
Never. I am currently hoping for a Gator resurgence, but only for this particular game. Any other week I hope they get beat like a rented mule. A Bama fan never roots for Auburn, and always roots for ANY team to beat them. The hard part is when Auburn plays Tennessee. A scoreless tie is hoped for.
Bias, or racism is not region specific.
Gee a noose is simply ‘free speech’.
How could anybody possibly consider a piece of innocent rope to be a knotty thing?
Hanging around some of these ideas leaves me feeling more than a little vexed.
I bet Big Mitch would regard a swastika as simply a decorative device. What do you think?
Oh right, it is just like those silly Arabs who were offended by mere cartoons.
A noose is simply an artistic statement?
The problem is not the noose, it is the eyes of the beholder. Look away, Look away.
Intimidation, assaulton self-hood, yes just ‘boys bein’ boys’. Presents no clear or present danger at all. It certainly does, but what shall we term it? Misguided enthusiasm?
How about a clear threat to life and limb. How is it intended to be interpreted? Just good clean fun? A dire warning. A slightly sick and unfeeling whim?
Jayt? burnspberg?
madmommy @ 69
Heh, Look at Carnegie and numerous others, their contributions post mortem speaks volumes…!!! ;-)
DrDick @ 70
Hi everyone. Great post although I’m not all the way through it yet. I just wanted to post this and find out who’s following this story in So. Cal? Apparently the rent-a-cop security at our public High School’s are wearing jackboots and breaking teenage arms in hammerlock grips while calling them nappy heads.
Story and Video
What the hell type of police state are we allowing ourselves to become?
DrDick @ 70
Intimidation, at least here in Indiana, is a crime in and of itself – and it’s a felony.
Aggravated battery, as opposed to simple battery, differs int the amount of physical injury suffered by the victim.
Damage to the psyche is a matter traditionally dealt with in civil courts (e.g. intentional infliction of emotional distress).
burnspbesq @ 45: “I have a real problem with criminalizing what looks like symbolic speech. How is hanging a noose from a tree Constitutionally different than Mr. Cohen walking into the Los Angeles County Courthouse wearing a jacket with “Fuck the Draft” written on it?”
A noose hanging in a tree is a symbolic death threat against anyone who is black, and is not not simple civil disobedience. That’s the difference between those two examples.
Death threats are not protected speech, at least not in the way the f-word in a courthouse is.
Burns -
As a follow up, to my previous post, I would say that the nooses in the tree in Jena are not constitutionally protected speech (though IANAL), but rather in this context constitute a form of assault. I believe that there was a federal court ruling not too long ago (in Va?) to that effect regarding burning crosses. As in any other assault case, the intent to intimidate removes the constitutional protections.
Enoch Root @ 78
I feel it rises to the level of ‘fire’ in a theatre level…!!!
Nate @ 76
OMG
DrDick @ 79
I really cannot wrap my mind around the idea that nooses in a tree can be anything other than a threat of violence. Especially in this case, when the nooses were put into the tree right after a black kid asked the principal for permission to sit under the “white tree”. I find it astounding that a student would have to ask permission to sit under a tree on school property to begin with. Is this 2007 or 1957?
CTuttle @ 80
HERE’s “boys being boys” for ya!
okay that two comments not showing up. I’m going to reboot and see if that helps.
Otherwise, can a mod help me?
CTuttle @ 80
Agreed. Not a lot different in societal standards than a cross-burning. Pure intimidation, and the target is no mystery.
demi @ 85
I was begining to wonder, Demi!
LS @ 81
horrible story
madmommy @ 82
Yes…? Which is it? I happen to be in the Minority here in Hawaii, so I’m unable to answer that…!!! *g*
Clarence Thomas’ Most Important Contribution To Date
jayt @ 62
Agreed. But since this law is primarily aimed at state, i.e. local, prosecution, those norms and attitudes may not change.
I have no huge problem with the portion of the law which involves for the provision of training and recognition of hate crimes (at least to the extent that it helps educate local law enforcement that the prosecution of these crimes is very important, for reasons you stated above). But there is no reason to single these out as something that requires different treatment. A murder is a murder, and the penalties are severe.
Is there such a thing as a politically-correct violent crime?
We are not creating a class of politically-correct violent crimes that are unmotivated by hate. We are recognizing society’s values by saying that violent crimes motivated by hate are worse for the community than crimes of passion or circumstance or opportunity.
OT
LS
have you seen this one?
Command Override: How Chinese Military Hackers Took Over a Nuclear Armed B-52
demi @ 85
Demi – you have no comments in moderation. I suggest a hard-refresh.
CTuttle @ 89
A pale beige Anglo in a sea of Polynesians? Is that the correct term, I don’t mean to offend.
TexBetsy @ 88
Couldn’t get the video up but text is chilling.
madmommy,
I dunno.
I had some good comments which went flying off into the ether. And I didn’t swear or nuthin’.
Whatever. I’ll just move on from here.
See, I’m flexible.
Elliott @ 90
Clarence has asked the least amount of questions, or, even pondered aloud, during Oral Arguments than any other Justice in history, in recorded history of the Court…!!!
I really cannot wrap my mind around the idea that nooses in a tree can be anything other than a threat of violence.
I agree that those facts constitute a threat of violence. As such, it is subject to prosecution as felony Intimidation, as least in states, like Indiana, which follow the Uniform Criminal Code.
So if ya didn’t HATE em when ya beat the crap out of em- it’s not as significant legally? I mean- maybe ya jist did it fer the FUN of it.
Hardly refreshing. *g*
demi @ 96
I hate it when that happens. The synapses fire in just the right order, and then whamo! your mini-masterpiece is gone forever. I will just assume that your comments were pithy, erudite and thought provoking as always.
CTuttle @ 97
like almost none!
bugs me!
jayt @ 77
My statement refers to assault, not battery. Assault (at least in Oklahoma, where I have some understanding of the statutes) does not necessarily involve actual physical harm, but rather the threat of harm. Aggravated assault is threatening with a weapon, simple assault is without (as I understand it).
The fact that intimidation is already a crime does not nullify the need for this law, which in effect simply requires that the assailant be punished both for intimidation and for the criminal act associated with the intimidation. Unfortunately, as Dave points out, that does not routinely happen in the absence of hate crimes laws. Likewise the law does not curtail the right of bigots to express their beliefs and proselytize to their hearts content. I for one fully support the rights of Nazis, skinheads, and the Klan to hold rallies and marches, give speeches, distribute literature, and maintain websites expressing their views. Those are protected speech, regardless of how personally repellent they are. It is when they attempt to directly intimidate people that I take exception.
For example, imagine if this Oakland woman’s car had simply been spraypainted randomly and her tires slashed. Her neighbors might have thought, “Bad breakup — too bad for her.”
Now, due to the words and symbols employed, the entire neighborhood thinks, “I too share the attributes for which this woman was targeted; am I next?”
Is not one act of vandalism worse than the other?
demi @ 96
Somewhere, out there, are some absolutely inspired comments. Hard to recapture some times. But weird, for certain. Been there. lost them and wondered ‘where DO they go?
madmommy @ 82
I think, given some of the commentary from local officials, that it may be 1937.
(sticking head out from behind backstage curtain).. demi, try to reboot your browser and then trying to quote a comment and see if your comments now appear (head disappears behind curtain again)
Can I share a story of a different kind of Hate Crime?
(it’s also an appeal for a firedoglake Uplift for someone.)
On Thursday, I found out that my son’s counselor at afterschool is in need of some Help. Her 25 year old brother stabbed their mom to death.
OMG
What to say?
DrDick @ 103
Speaking of which, there were reports here in La. that some websites were publishing the addresses of the families of the black students involved in Jena. No word yet on what, if anything will come of it.
WASHINGTON (AP) — Who cares if they’re free? Residents in the nation’s capital say the condoms being handed out have a serious problem.
As many as 70,000 condoms given away in a citywide campaign to reduce HIV and AIDS were returned this week by community groups. Another 100,000 condoms were returned in early September because of complaints their paper packaging can be easily damaged and could make the condoms ineffective.
City health officials agreed that complaints about the packaging were damaging to their citywide distribution campaign, but they have insisted the condoms were safe. They said this week they will distribute brand-name substitutes.
Since the problems were publicized, the city’s condom manufacturer offered to replace all remaining supplies with Trojan, Lifestyles and other products found on drugstore shelves.
A spokeswoman for Mayor Adrian Fenty said the city has received 125,000 of the new condoms and 400,000 more are expected in the next two weeks.
demi @ 108
what about your son? how is he taking it?
Wow!
Did the brother have a history of mental illness? drugs?
rwcole @ 110
Wow, free condoms handed out in Bush’s back yard. Wonder if he noticed?
Suzanne @ 107
okay…and?
newtonusr @ 86
What about burning an effigy of bush?
madmommy @ 94
A mere lad(8yro), transplanted from the Northwest Territories in Canada to Ewa Beach, Hawaii, in thirty days… Called it home ever since, yet, I’ve seen much of Europe, some of Asia, and all Fifty States, along the way…!!! *g*
New thread – Late Night is up.
madmommy @ 109
According to recent posts at Dave’s site (which is on my daily reading list) the FBI is investigating. This is one of those gray areas where it could be construed as either intimidation or as protected speech. I will defer to our legal experts on that.
CTuttle @ 115
Now that’s some culture shock! Must have been pretty trippy for a kid, going from one extereme to another.
DrDick @ 70
I fully understand the point of the legislation. I reject the notion that you can draw a content-neutral distinction between what you describe as an “act of intimidation” and what I describe as “symbolic speech. And if you can’t do that, then your proposed ban on “acts of intimidation” violates the First Amendment.
Thers has a new post up…
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…../#comments
I am so sorry Demi. Not sure what to say.
madmommy @ 117
That it was… I certainly learned…!!! *g*
CTuttle @ 115
CTut, I’ve often wondered, did you ‘go native’?
You’ve got a certain very polished um, nobility about many of your comments, and a definite knack with the ‘lingo’. Just curious.
So when Bush vetoes this bill and the veto is sustained by our courageous democratic leadership – it will OK to beat up Christians?
Elliot,
James is feeling really bad for Amy, but he’s handling it pretty well. We’re going to the funeral/memoria tomorrow at Mount Sinai.
In view of the shortness of time since my son’s grandfather’s service, he realizes the importance of showing up for support and more.
Here’s a link to the two stories in the paper.
The young man obviously had serious problems to stab his mom to death.
Big Yikes. To put it mildly. She was 55 years old.
Just been pondering the many aspects of the story all day.
My statement refers to assault, not battery. Assault (at least in Oklahoma, where I have some understanding of the statutes) does not necessarily involve actual physical harm, but rather the threat of harm. Aggravated assault is threatening with a weapon, simple assault is without (as I understand it).
The fact that intimidation is already a crime does not nullify the need for this law, which in effect simply requires that the assailant be punished both for intimidation and for the criminal act associated with the intimidation. Unfortunately, as Dave points out, that does not routinely happen in the absence of hate crimes laws. Likewise the law does not curtail the right of bigots to express their beliefs and proselytize to their hearts content. I for one fully support the rights of Nazis, skinheads, and the Klan to hold rallies and marches, give speeches, distribute literature, and maintain websites expressing their views. Those are protected speech, regardless of how personally repellent they are. It is when they attempt to directly intimidate people that I take exception.
First, there is no such thing as criminal assault in Indiana, and I can only speak as to the laws here. That crime is subsumed/replaced by either Intimidation or Attempted Battery. Oddly enough, assault (threats) remains a viable cause of action in civil courts.
As to your second point, sometime there are two crimes – sometimes not. Sometimes, there is first a threat, followed by action – other times there is simply action without other preceding threat at all.
All I’m really trying to say is that there are existing laws in place to deal with most of these situations, without the need for creating a class of persons, the commission of a crime against them being treated more seriously than crimes against other classses of persons.
Teddy’s example of hate-vandalism raises an interesting question though. Judges do have quite some leeway in state courts at least, in the imposition of sentencing, via the use of aggravating or mitigating factors.
David – Thank you putting so much work into this thread.
I left the south at seventeen because of the terrible hatred and violence there. My parents tried their best to shield me but it was in my face – on the bus, at a water fountain, segregated schools. The absence of blacks made them more present than less present. I heard ministers say they would not preach if blacks attended their church. Teachers say they would not teach blacks. The examples were everywhere by our elders.
Now when I return to visit my New Orleans family, blacks are absent from gatherings, neighborhoods, scarce in restaurants and still have most of the menial jobs. There has been some progress but that is mostly because of white flight. In the white areas I am back in the old south.
Maybe Democrats were and are naive about racism in the south but Republicans know that 90% of their party is Jim Crow Lite by a gentlemen Agreement. As long as they get the votes, the status quo will remain. If an LBJ comes along in the Republican Party, their constituents will desert them.
I am disgusted with both parties, Democrats for sticking their head in the sand and Republicans for being blatant racist. When have Democrats called Republicans on their racist position in the south? Never, that I know of.
jay t;
But that isn’t how the laws work. The actual status of the victims is actually somewhat irrelevant. The only thing the law speaks to is the motive of the perpetrator. A large number of gay-bashing hate crimes are committed against straights who are mistaken to be gay. Likewise, some Sikhs have been victims of bias-crime assaults by thugs who thought they were attacking Muslims.
I thought the post made this clear. But really, you need to see that the categories that bias-crime laws feature do not have to do with the identity of the victim but with the motivation of the perp.
And of course, mens rea — i.e., the state of mind of the perpetrator, or intent and motive — are standard features of criminal law, particularly in the sentencing aspect. And bias-crime laws are almost purely sentence-enhancement statutes.
How would this legislation handle the crime of rape……
“…namely, federalizing a broad range of bias crimes involving violence against not merely gays and lesbians but blacks, Jews, Muslims, even whites and Christians.”
Wow, even Whites and Christians! Too bad it comes too late for Meliisa McLauchlin, among others. Melissa who?
Don’t worry, kids, it was before your time. A young white woman kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered by six black men in South Carolina don’t matter. Just ask Ms., just ask The Progressive, just ask The Nation, just ask Mother Jones and the rest of the left press that refused to cover the story, Just ask Dan” Crocodile Tears for James Byrd every broadcast” Rather, who ignored the story. Just ask Al Sharpton, who….ah, just forget it and go blog for the release of a gang of black thugs. No wonder liberals are so well known for their even-handedness.
gkruz:
Interracial crime is not innately bias crime. You’re obviously confused about the concept.
They admitted they wanted to “get a white girl” for 400 years of oppression. I’m not confused about anything, smart guy. I recognize a crime motivated by hate when I see it. I researched the crime extensively and wrote about it and was forced to take the story to a conservative publication because all the fearless anti-censorship journals of the left couldn’t deal with the facts. Melissa was the wrong race to be a victim, and the thugs who killed her, with pre-meditation, were the wrong race to be the villains for self-righteous, guilt-mongering white liberals like you. You’re obviously confused about morality as well as reality.