From the WaPo:
Fourteen “high-value” terrorism suspects who were transferred to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, from secret CIA prisons last year have been formally offered the right to request lawyers, a move that could allow them to join other detainees in challenging their status as enemy combatants in a U.S. appellate court.
The move, confirmed by Defense Department officials, will allow the suspects their first contact with anyone other than their captors and representatives of the International Committee of the Red Cross since they were taken into custody.
The prisoners, who include Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, have not had access to lawyers during their year at Guantanamo Bay or while they were held, for varying lengths of time, at the secret CIA sites abroad. They were entitled to military “personal representatives” to assist them during the administrative process that determined whether they are enemy combatants.
U.S. officials have argued in court papers against granting lawyers access to the high-value detainees without special security rules, fearing that attorney-client conversations could reveal classified elements of the CIA’s secret detention program and its controversial interrogation tactics.
Defense officials gave the detainees “Legal Representation Request” forms during the last week of August and the first week of September, and sources familiar with the process said at least four detainees have requested attorneys.
Why now? Why change from prior policy now? I want to go back to a revealing post from Balkinization:
The theory of the government’s case here is contained in the remarkable tenth paragraph of the Declaration of Marilyn Dorn (PDF), CIA Information Review Officer. Dorn writes:
Information relating to the CIA terrorist detention program has been placed in a TOP Secret/SCI program to enhance protection from unauthorized disclosure. Because Majid Khan was detained by the CIA in this program, he may have come into possession of information, including locations of detention, conditions of detention, and alternative interrogation techniques, that is classified at the TOP SECRET/SCI level.
Joe Marguiles, quoted in the Post article, is right: This goes beyond Orwell into Lewis Carroll territory, topping the formidable list of jaw-dropping Bush Administration euphemisms.
Khan “came into possession” of top secret classified information, eh? And how might that have happened? Part of his job at the CIA? A leak from a rogue CIA employee? By finding a lost memo sitting around some blind alley somewhere?
Or is it, perhaps, that he “came into possession” by virtue of the fact that he is the “classified information”? That is to say, it was the CIA’s torture of Khan — sorry, its “application of alternative interrogation techniques against him” — that was how Khan “came into possession” of our most closely guarded secrets. (emphasis Marty’s)
And again, I ask myself, why is the Bush Administration allowing them access to counsel now — after doing everything possible to prevent it for so long? Something is up, and I want to know what it is.
(Photo via LaserGuided.)
PS — The AFL-CIO is holding a rally today in DC against the brutality going on in Burma. Thought some of our DC-area readers would be interested.
PPS — Happy birthday Jeralyn!



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Christy!
BADA BING!
Ask Majid Khan “when he’s ten feet tall”…?
Weirder and weirder, too.
That ten paragraphs sounds like an alternative ending to 1984!
EPU’d re: Burma…Kirk Murphy posted this link:
http://burmanews.cbox.ws/
The army is entering the monasteries and shooting the people.
OT – Chaka Khan – no relation to Majid Khan, I presume – referring to Barak Obama as an “Afro-Saxon.”
It does sound like something out of Orwell — or Phillip K. Dick — doesn’t it?
Cue the Twilight Zone theme music…
LS @ 5
You will also notice that post is several hours old. Chilling.
And again, I ask myself, why is the Bush Administration allowing them access to counsel now — after doing everything possible to prevent it for so long? Something is up, and I want to know what it is.
Maybe the “success” in the Padilla case has them convinced they can take the remnants of these human beings to court, *and* exclude all evidence of how evidence against them was obtained?
You know, if our government hadn’t been using
torture‘alternative interrogation techniques’, they wouldn’t have this problem.Of course, that assumes sanity and intelligence actually might exist in our government in more than a handful of individuals.
PeteCo at 9 — One of the links in my Burma note says that the government in Myanmar shut off internet access in the country. See this — lines were cut at midday according to VOA.
Hi Christy,
YGM on cuba’s take on US atrocities…thanks.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 7
Sure does!
I would really love to see a real (i.e. intellectually honest) judicial opinion that assessed the ability of anyone held and tortured for month to cooperate in their own defense, especially while still held by the same govt that tortured them. I suppose we will never see that.
Looks like the radicals of the sixties were pretty much right about the CIA. And a bunch of other things.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 12
It certainly looks that way; the posts were coming thick and fast up until that point. Horrible to see.
The remarkable “classification” of the locations after Khan was released was the subject of another article a while back (I wish I could find it). It defies belief (well, no it doesn’t with the 1600 Crew) that they would classify what the detainees already know. Do they think that these people are going to not tell their stories after years of mistreatment? Not likely.
It’s instructive that the 1600 Crew classifies ex-post facto the details of their torture program. I’m guessing that’s so if they ever have to face justice, they can get the paper work to the shredder before the investigators can discover (in the legal sense) where the skeletons are buried … shamefully, probably literally.
realworld at 15 — There was a lot of back and forth on that issue in the Padilla case with regard to his mental stability and wherewithall to stand trial. Lew had quite a bit on that for us in his reporting, althugh I suspect that a lot of the information on that is off the public record still.
Ed*ard Teller @ 6
that’s good.
I’m trying to pretend that the massacres in Burma aren’t happening. oh God
Oklahoma kiddo @ 16
VH1 had a documentary on john lennon lastnight, wiretapping et.al. Thing that struck me was how much Orlly sounds like Strom Thurmond.
For what it’s worth, Buffalo Springfield’s ‘For What It’s Worth’ seems appropriate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30W3iRL48gQ
This may be part of the price for getting a new AG without having to plow a great deal of ground that might be of interest to the World Court. If so, then Gonzo left Leahy with a fair handful of the Bush/Cheney short & curlies.
PeteCO @ 9
Countries will do nothing until after the massacre and that will be a speech condemning this outrage. But, they will DO nothing. Remember Tibet.
Christy,
I think the quote from the Declaration spells out what the “top Secret” Information is
1)Because he was in a location, he knows where it is
2)because he endured those conditions of detetnion, he knows what they are
3)Because he was at the recieivng end of those “alternative interrogations techniques,” he an describe them in detail and may have the scars to prove it.
jayt @ 10
They can give certain high profile terrists their day in kangaroo court, confident they will prosecute them, find them guilty and convict them, then tell everyone they were right all along.
Here’s the spin: See, the dems insist we should give the terrists their day in court and when we do, they are found guilty jess like we knew they was. Its a waste of time better spent huntin’ down other terrists.
Because they got the conviction of Padilla and believe that any jury can be snowed by mentioning some buzzwords and control what evidence a jury will see… more show trials to keep terrorism and fear in the people’s minds.
Shock and awe…
twȝk @ 21
I missed that, but I always compare Orlly (you mean billo, right?) to Eugene McCarthy. A dangerous blowhard who was once extremely popular, became a liability, stripped of power, and pretty much disappeared from public view while muttering to himself. Very much a hot air balloon that needs an audience to stay inflated.
Ed*ard Teller @ 6
An Afro-Saxon is a black Englishman…
Wonder how long we’d last under the Bush regime if we took to the streets and began civil disobedience?
AP – The White House criticized Myanmar on Friday for cutting off Internet access and called on “all civilized nations” to pressure the military-run government to end its violent crackdown on protesters.
Elliott @ 20
LS’s terse comment about made me throw up.
I’d like to see Burma restored to a democracy.. this is Hungary all over again.
What will the democracy loving demagogues do when there is a clear moral imperative to act?
Nothing.
twȝk @ 21
btw
has anyone else been getting phantom calls from
843 566-8580?
The CIA is nasty.
Step forward Mr Larry Johnson and Ms Valerie Plame and explain how you became entangled with a bunch of lawless thugs?
Elliott @ 33
No, but I did get a call on caller ID from 867-5309.
SanderO @ 27
Agreed. Does anyone know the process of determining where the trials take place thereby determining the jury pool? How can US jury be impartial to terrorist suspects?
LS @ 5
One of my sisters was the only western journalist in Burma during the revolution. People would just come up to her and beg her to make sure the world knew what was happening.
She filed many stories, only one, which was about the politics not the violence ever made it into print.
She quit working for that paper when she got home to hte States.
I’m glad the truth is getting out this time.
do-si-do @ 28
Uh, I think you are meaning Joe McCarthy, the Repub right wing senator from Wisconsin who accused all the Army and State Dept of being communists during the fifties.
Eugene McCarthy was the Dem senator from Minnesota who knocked LBJ out of the President race in ‘68 by being anti-war.
There seems to be some consensus here that you can torture a human being into oblivion and the put him on trial and get an easy conviction in a few hours.
WOW what a plan!
SanderO at 34 — The entire CIA is not nasty, any more than the entire peace movement is filled with angels. Try not to generalize with inaccurate overstatements in snotty guise, please.
From the BBC;
Information from Burma has become increasingly patchy. Internet access has been cut in Rangoon and is only partially available elsewhere.
Religious sites sealed off by troops in Rangoon
Burmese sources told the BBC that international mobile phone signals have been interrupted and soldiers are searching people for cameras and mobile phones.
Dissidents have been using the internet to get pictures and video of the protests and the military crackdown to international news outlets – who then fed them back into Burma via the internet and satellite TV.
looseheadprop @ 37
Oh wow! essentially ignored!?!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 12
The cut the phone lines the last time.
PeteCO @ 17
We (in Australia) were getting reports through mobile phones but even these have tapered off.
do-si-do @ 28
Yeah ole Brillo. It was a rant on the extreme left that was interchangeable between the two.
PeteCO @ 17
Governments are very very aware of how powerful an information instrument the Internet is. Next thing to go will probably be cell phone access, since with a cell phone, people can call, text and send pictures. The only people who will be able to get anything out will be landlines (which will probably be monitored) or satellite phones.
SanderO @ 27
That, too. Another good point. This guy is another high profile number two type to be trotted out for a media spectacle.
looseheadprop @ 37
It is amazing the information that gets out thanks to the internet. Thank you, Al Gore!
Notice how they shut off the cell phone system and internet first thing.
You can’t have such a powerful organizing force as the internet in the hands of the people.
Duly noted by you know who…
And we can’t even extract a commitment out of my party to pull out of Iraq by 2013. Let alone to disavow attacking Iran. I’d like to see democracy restored in this country. Democracy is worth dying for. Ask those in Burma.
dakine01 @ 38
ouch. my face is burning! So sorry and you of course are quite right. My apologies to the Honorable Eugene McCarthy. Jeez, I can’t believe I wrote that! ack!
IANAL, but it sounds like they’ve classified as Top Secret anything he might use a defense (ie. that he was tortured into confessing) and thus it can’t be presented to a jury. Does it then go to a
kangaroo courtmilitary tribunal or does he just get gulaged permanently without any kind of trial?Christy,
Just my swag:
Politics! Junya and his cabal want to frame the upcoming politcal season again with:
1. The “shiny thing” meme of “Terrorism! Terrorism everwhere you look!” meant to escalate the fear high they use to both motivate their base as well as freeze their opponents.
2. And by playing the “Terrorism! Terrorism everwhere you look!” card, they hope to submerge the angst Americans have about the Iraq War Failure.
Junya and his cabal could have easily tried to start Military Commissions against any of the long-suffering and long-held smaller Gitmo fry, but that doesn’t have the “Star” media PR qualities of a KSM (Khalid Sheikh Mohammed).
If there is one thing that is true about this criminal Administration, it is the fact that every pronouncement and policy is 1st vetted for its “marketing” potential.
This is nothing but the Repug version of those infamous Soviet Show Trials that old Joe used to run.
Popcorn sprinkled with Repug Fairy Dust and Junya’s homebrew Kool-Aid comin’ right up!
Elliott @ 33
Switchboard.com shows that number as a landline in Charleston, SC
Christy, thanks for focusing on the shop of horrors at Guantanamo (and Diego Garcia…and Bagram…and…)
Thanks also for your Burma links.
I slept only four hours – woke up early to hunt for links and news.
Here the SFGate found everything I have (and more) and had it all posted by the time I got up.
Who knew I should check the local Hearst paper for breaking Burma news?
Sheesh, the toobz… ;)
and lhp – bless your sister and her work and her conscience.
sona @ 43
Well now here’s a case for the NSA, surely we are capable of picking up cell phone signals from Asia with our super secret satellites? Am I giving them too much credit?
Up-to-the-minute Myanmar news here.
They (in Burma) cut the phones, and we have FISA and the Patroit Act and Bush.
Christy I am not smearing all the people in the CIA as nasties.
But I am accusing the CIA as an organization as being engaged in many nasty endeavors.
Ask Danial Ellsberg about the CIA.
Same applies to the armed forces. Many good people in there, but the overall mission is usually wrong.
twȝk @ 43
Eugene Mc Carthy? I assume you mean Joe, Tailgunner Joe.
Mad Dogs @ 52
DING DING DING! You Win!
dakine01 @ 53
thanks,
I wish they’d quit pestering me.
What’s going on in Burma could happen here some day.
wow, great Burma link, biodun!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 61
Yea, except for the fact that half the population here is armed to the teeth.
Elliott @ 55
I’m sure they’re watching how the Burmese government is doing it; making notes.
Elliott @ 41
The editor said the American people don’t want to read about things like that. They want to read about things that affect the stock market and the American economy.
When she tald me that I accused her of making it up. But son of a gun, the only story they printed had and agle relating to whether the revolution would affect the American economy.
I was stunned
Yeah Raven…
I’m really embarrassed that I blew that one. Talk about lack of fact checking. cripes.
Elliott @ 62
looks like it’s verizon collections or customer service
http://whocalled.us/lookup/8435668580
Biodun @ 57
Oh My GOD! That photo – a little boy’s brains, in a puddle…..
What US companies are currently doing business with the Myanmar government?
do-si-do @ 66
Easy enough to do, I really had to do a double-take because Gene was so soft spoken.
Mad Dogs @ 52
Ding! Ding! Ding! I think we have a winner folks.
Christy,
Tell Mad Dogs what prize he wins for correctly guessing the answer to today’s question.
looseheadprop @ 66
I am stunned too!!
Who are we Americans anymore?
Could we be anymore conceited and self centered? It’s like we have a narcissistic personality disorder, and Kirk, isn’t that essentially untreatable?
What’s the real difference between what’s going on in Burma and what the Bush Administration has been doing to the Constitution and the DOJ for the past seven years?
I urge people to call their representative and senators in congress to intervene immediately in the massacre in Burma. They need to throw a bright spot light on what is happening there. Being upset later and calling it an outrage does nothing to stop what is happening.
One major plus of the spotlight on the junta is that they don’t like their deeds exposed. If we cast our eyes at them directly, it will slow down the events on what is happening. Spotlight the junta.
raven @ 64
No need for bloodshed in the land of Britney & NASCAR; I strongly recommend this.
Many people are hopelessly naive about what makes the world go round. Things like democracy and justice and ethics are only distractions that the people are occasionally allowed to indulge in. It’s a theater. We’re the pawns… the uber wealthy and powerful move the chess pieces. It’s a game to them. Fageddabout rules.
Elliott @ 71
Stephen Stills » Do You Remember the Americans
Standin’ by a snow drift in the pale moonlight
Hitchhikin’ west on a highway at night
Tryin’ to get to Frisco lookin’ for my girl
Here comes a trucker, hope he don’t mind my long curls
I remember years ago hitchin’ this same road
Never saw a trucker leave a man out in the cold
No riders sign on the window never meant a thing
Nowadays they just roll on lookin’ kind of mean
Kind of makes me wonder, scratch my head and kick the snow
Four years of overseas who are these strangers in my home
Where are the country people does anybody know
Do you remember the Americans where did they go
Were they simply bought and sold
If you google the number, a lot of people have been complaining about getting calls at all hours from this number.
FYI: It’s 11:29 PM Friday in Yangon, Myanmar right now.
Time-Zone-WorldClock here.
Burma??? What does A*P*C want?
Edited and released by Mods
twolf1 @ 68
OMG! I swear Verizon is hell-bent on destroying my life! I won’t bore with details but they ate up three months of my life last year over a switching error they acknowledge they made.
kirk murphy @ 62
Thanks…Your tax dollars at work…*g*
I’m echoing egregious from an earlier thread, but folks might want to start paying more attention to how many new commenters consistently have the subtle “let’s all give up, why vote @ all, things are so bad, current Dems are crap” vibe going on thread after thread.
I read everything here, don’t actually post much @ FDL anymore, but just observing…
QuakerGirl @ 73
Intervene? With what? Damn near everything is tied up in Iraq or Afghanistan!
PM Gordon Brown has said he thinks there are a lot more deaths than have been officially reported in Myanmar. Paraphrased from a banner at CNN.
Oh no I say vote the bums out. Vote… but we need deep changes in this country.
term limits
public finance of elections
verified voting
no corporate lobbying
Verizon thinks they can decide on our free speech. Thanks Bush
Marie at 83 — You are the fourth person that has made a “I read here every day, but don’t comment much any more” mention in passing that I’ve seen to me or in one of my threads or passed along to me this week. Not to put you on the spot, but can you elaborate a bit more on the why of that, if you don’t mind? Thanks!
Well, the GOP has some of their lobbyists working on behalf of the Burmese junta, so they won’t be making too much noise.
The GOP, soft on dictators.
-GSD
China can pull the plug on those thugs… it’s their little client state.
Remember Tienamen Square?
Elliott @ 73
This is current. This was back during the pro-democracy revolution in the late 1980’s.
See you all in a little bit. Gotta shift workstations…*g*
Oklahoma kiddo @ 30
Brisingamen @ 85
It doesn’t have to be military. Think past that. This is Southeast Asia. They hate being seen doing an evil deed. Here is a part of the world where calling them out publicly has an effect.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 74
Shooting clergy in their own houses of worship
SanderO @ 90
We can’t be bothered with the greatest mass murderers in the history of earth, too busy bashing Israel.
Marie Roget @ 84
A new variation on concern trolls, you say?
QuakerGirl @ 93
Uh, what exactly do you mean by “intervene”? Appeal to them on humanitarian grounds?
Brisingamen @ 85
Here’s a list of UK companies currently doing business in Myanmar. Many of them are also in the US – Chevron, for instance. Does anyone know where there’s an exclusive US list? I know, I already asked….
UK Burma Campaign Dirty List.
looseheadprop @ 93
Thank you. As I said earlier, they won’t need to use violence on a large scale in the US.
Does Burma have oil? That’s a biggie in Cheneyland. I’m afraid the Chinese will let Burma’s junta handle things the way they did Tienamen Square.
Sander — One of the links above is a good thumbnail analysis on various links of governments to Myanmar from the BBC. It’s good background on China, the EU and others, for folks who aren’t so in the know on the dynamics involved in the region. It’s a good starting off point for more information, anyway…thought it might be useful for some folks who are reading.
looseheadprop @ 67
Colbert nails US press. I know most of you have read/heard this before but it bears repeating in the wake of Rush, Billo, moveon, burma, etc etc etc
[still trying to get back into good graces after my McCarthy flub]
I have been a voting Democrat for 39 years. I write letters to the editor, send email and slow mail to my reps and other pols. And contribute time and money to my party. I’m going to vote for the nominee of my party. And I am going to keep right on keeping my party’s feet to the fire when necessary. And I am not going to allow anybody tell me to just lay down and shutup.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 88
Work commitments are interfering, & I end up reading back-o-thread 98 percent of the time. Love this site, but don’t really want to comment in EPU land.
That’s about “The It.” :-)
Re: My #91 above
should read “this is notcurrent.”
“19. The Court noted that the “discussions of these documents in the public press, undoubtedly
arising from numerous leaks of the documents, raise concern . . . that the purpose of the CIA’s
Glomar responses is less to protect intelligence activities, sources or methods than to conceal
possible ‘violations of law’ in the treatment of prisons, or ‘inefficiency’ or ‘embarrassment’ of
the CIA.” See id. at 25-26. These recent disclosures underscore this point, and, because the
bases asserted for the invocation of Glomar are now clearly not the real basis for the CIA’s
refusal to respond, at least raise the significant danger that considerations other than safeguarding
national security underlie the CIA’s response. Particularly given the current public scrutiny of
these issues, the newly obtained evidence gives substance to the Court’s concern, as the CIA
may very well be maintaining the secrecy of these documents in order to protect itself from
“embarrassment” or to conceal “violations of law,” purposes which have no place under FOIA.”
http://www.aclu.org/images/ass….._22585.pdf
[still trying to get back into good graces after my McCarthy flub]
Ease up on yourself, there are a LOT worse things posted here all the time.
looseheadprop @ 96
IMO that about hits it. Look to see more, perhaps, as the election draws on…
raven at 107 — LOL You are cracking me up today…
do-si-do @ 102
I saw that episode/show. AND I was eating popcorn at the time. Life as it should be
“Shooting clergy in their own houses of worship”
That’s hardly what I meant. But we do manage to kill old people, woman and children in their own houses in Iraq and elsewhere.
Well as to why the Bush Administration no longer fears letting our “detainees” have lawyers, just look at our Supreme Court, our acting Attorney General and our Democratic Majority in congress.
The Bush Administration is probably a little embarrassed they ever worried about facing consequences if their actions were found out.
And if Burma had oil, we’d already have boots on the ground to “liberate” them. The fact that we won’t do anything about this just proves the lie of this Administrations dedication to spreading freedom and democracy.
What the military junta in Myanmar is doing right now is far worse than ANYTHING the government of Iran has done (and that’s not to say Iran is completely innocent), but Iran will be bombed by freedom-spreading American, while Burma will be subjected to some tsk-ing and tongue clicking, but not much more.
Reprehensible.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 109
I’m trying to get it in early so Jonathon doesn’t get on my ass for having fun in the evening!
If the Bush administration is about to do something right, like allow detainees access to lawyers, it means they’re about to get a smackdown from a federal judge. Something bad is headed their way & they’re getting out of the way.
They never do the right thing because it’s the right thing.
Ed*ard, that horrific photo made me cry.
I hope it goes around the world this morning.
For those who don’t see the pic (in the US) the following may grab their attention:
I put the photo and story up at SF Bay Indymedia.
The person in the picture (face partially obscured by camera) resembles an activist who works on Burma issues.
If anyone else on the Lake knows people working for freedom in Burma, please pass on the photo/linkies above.
[Of course one American’s life is worth no more (or less) than anyone else’s life.
But with brain-dead MSM, linking global tragedies to the fate of one Yank gets the story out on local news.]
raven @ 78
thanks raven, that was poignant.
Marie Roget @84:
They’re trying to discourage people from voting. What they aren’t taking into account is that many, if not all, of us consider voting to be a duty.
We will be at the polls on Election Day no matter how discouraged and disheartened we may be feeling.
Ann in AZ @ 79
I keep forgetting to look at the number before I answer. Maybe Verizon’s trying to push me over a minute count. Part of their business model, no doubt.
Marie Roget @ 84
Hi Marie, well, I confess to feeling beaten down by various events and posting the same remarks you quote above, but just stating my own feelings. I admire people who can stay strong no matter how much crap hits the fan. but i hope you don’t take my remarks as trollish. Even the hostesses have their up and down days.
I do appreciate your hypervigilance, though, the heat is on. One can tell from all the over the top flailing of the blowhards. and there is no dirty trick that is off limits, including concern trolling.
Sorry, I do have commentaryitis today!
Redd,
I am not at the level of a front pager and my poor knowledge is gathered from multiple sources of many years. I can’t often pull together citations. I’m sorry.
For what it’s worth.. this is the best blog in the net, bar none.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 103
Similar story..just not quite as many years. (g)
That being said, I admit I’m as depressed as I’ve ever been. The Iran resolution and the MoveOn debacle does more than depress me, it demotivates me a bit, hopefully that will be temporary.
To be fair, this theme has been pushed by some on the left for awhile. I was listening to Pacifica radio years ago and an activist from Oakland was telling people that voting was selling out. People in the audience cheered. I was shocked.
I used to be angry at Greens for insisting there was no difference between R’s and D’s, but it’s getting harder to do.
Our party IS split, there are many great Dems out there, but there is a very strong contingent of corporate Dems, and so far the only thing that keeps me motivated towards the party line is knowing what a shambles the judicial system will be if the R’s maintain control.
looseheadprop @ 90
Oh, thanks, lhp
looseheadprop @ 110
What about the Daily show taking care of BillO? (From C&L)
And we certainly have killed quite a few Muslim clergy in their own houses.
LS @ 106
Oh boy……….
We (FDL) had some posts way, way, way back, when the earth was young, about violations of classsifications laws.
Mary was particularly link-full in the comment threads. This section sounds almost as if she had written it herself.
looseheadprop @ 96
Although the national scene re the Dem leadership IS depressing, I feel more energized about local possibilities for progressive Dems than I’ve felt in any of my 34 years in Alaska.
Howie Klein is a friggin’ genius! He knows that, like TRex sez – we must attack, Attack, ATTACK, ATTACK!!!!
I would think all this may be an attempt to pre-empt issues being revisited by SCOTUS this fall in Boumediene. I agree the description of Khan is, to say the least, tortured.
Here is a link to the Myanmar blogger out of London that was on CNN:
http://www.ko-htike.blogspot.com/
dakine01 @ 123
Dakine, that was just TOO funny. they are on a roll. so much material I know.
Looseheadprop: this is the money quote for me regarding your sister’s brave reporting.
Elliott @ 116
Second Manassas album Down the Road
Can we get rid of the two party system? I think it’s not especially good.
But the real problem is unfettered free market laissez fair crony capitalism
TheOtherWA at 114 — That’s what I was thinking, too — but I haven’t turned up particulars as yet on a case where it’s happened. Was hoping maybe someone else had spotted something telling in a filing somewhere…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 124
I feel compelled to point out they are pretty goddamn good at killing each other as well. Doesn’t excuse anything but damn.
raven @ 107
((raven)) thanks dude!
one of my inlaws tells me I should be Catholic cuz I have such a highly developed sense of guilt…
raven @ 130
And I actually have that album!
Could it be that Majid Khan was working with/for the CIA and ceased cooperating?
AnnieW @ 121
The Democrats are crap, but it is important to remember:
Republicans > criminal
Democrats > feckless
So although both are bad, the Republicans are far worse.
dakine01 @ 135
Yea, me too. The first one is one of the greatest of all time but this one is good. Rock and Roll Crazies, they’ll get ya right down!
That’s what keeps me motivated…though Howie Klein makes me enthused.
Hi Elliot -
NPD actually does respond to some forms of psychotherapy – but the work is quite challenging.
And that’s just the therapist’s perspective…
Challenging work is even harder for the patient…for someone with NPD, accepting that they need changing is not a comfortable prospect.
“there’s something not perfect here? about me?”
As the core of NPD is a terribly, agonizingly fragile sense of self worth…. I don’t mean any disrespect to those suffering with this burden – but do seek to illustrate the complex matrix required for the person with NPD to be comfortable enough to emabrk upon change.
do-si-do @ 119
I feel beaten down by the actions of Bush & Co every stinking day lately. As so many have concluded before me, its not the falling down, it’s the staying down. After reading & commenting here for over a year, I know that nobody here will stay down.
The heat is indeed on. But we are hotter & will prevail, believe it.
Happy to have a few minutes in real time to say it today.
raven @ 97
Raven – First, thank you. Start with calling your rep and sen in congress so they know the people are paying attention much like we did with Cambodia – that action came out of the people and they moved congress.
I just called several NGOs to find out ways to connect with organizations in Asia. Many horrific things happen here and with enough people intervening and throwing a spotlight on what is happening, it slows a junta down. Or, we can just sit around and say “oh, how terrible” to hideous photos. Personally, I will spend my day making connections and in my own small way, lighting a candle. With enough single candles it will become a spotlight.
QuakerGirl @ 142
I loves ya QG!
raven @ 138
I’ve got the first one as well.
I saw Stills in a show in CT back in ‘95 where he opened for the Neville Brothers. Unfortunately, he just went through the motions in that show. R-e-a-l disappointing.
do-si-do
It’s not always the reporters, it the friggin editors. reporters essentialy fight for front page space. It’s editors who decide what the Amrican people get to see.
ALso, there is a bit of a beauty contest tilt to it. Media outlets are very wary of true “scoops”.
The paper she was submitting these stories to, took the attitude that id no other natioanl dailies were covering it, why did they have to?
She was in Burma kinda by accident. She wasn’t sent their to Cover the 8888 uprising. She just happened to be there when it happened.
She was very frustrated because it could have been a HIGE scoop. These poor victimized people thought that word was getting out to the west and it wasn’t.
And for the laziest of reasons.
Hi Marie – glad y’all had a breath of moist air and rain last weekend (my family near Pasadena were thrilled).
ANd glad you joined us today!
kirk murphy @ 140
Isn’t mostly the people around the one with NPD that seek therapy in order to cope?
Disclaimer: rhetorical question from adult child of NPD dad.
old gold @ 22
Dakine and Raven,
For what it’s worth,Stephen Stills was a memeber of Buffalo Springfield.
Are we all still claiming that the two Muslims picked up in South carolina were just innocent tourists set upon by Bush, or are we changing our story on that one? Just checking into what I should believe….
SanderO @ 131
It depends on what you have in mind for a replacement of that paradigm. FDL, scads of other blogs and orgs, Blue America and ActBlue are trying to rebuild the Democratic Party along a more liberal, progressive and – hopefully – pragmatic model.
I spent sixteen years as a Green in the most effective Green Party organization in the USA. We got nothing in terms of offices, past the assembly, school board and mayor level. Nothing but resentment from Dems for allegedly taking votes from their column. I’m now a fighting Dem – for the duration.
There has never been a better opportunity for liberals and progressives to take back the Democratic Party than right now.
“We were forced to stay in the drain for 15 mins and gather by the into a group.
A commander came and gather his troops and drove off to Tamwe direction.
After that ,i looked at my injures and and found injures on my left and right legs.
My wife found the “40mm riot control munnition” empty cartridge that the soldiers shoot at me.
I would like the embassy and media to know the actions of this army.
We are just ordinary citizen going to work and they just shot at us for no reason.
Imagine what they would do to the protesters!”
From Ko-htike’s site: Link upthread.
old gold @ 148
As were Neil Young, Richie Furay, Jim Messina
kirk murphy @ 146
Thanks, kirk. Used to lived in my neck of the woods near the waves in Santa Monica IIRC.
FYI, we’re having dinner @ the Enterprise Fish Co. on Sat.
Great question – and I’m unaware of any reference that would answer it! (not to say there is none – I’m just ignorant).
In general, seekinng therapy is a trade-off between the discomfort of going (time, costs, etc) and the discomfort of not going (ongoing sx).
For those who are either less troubled by their symptoms (than are those around them) or more mortified about the prospect of needing therapy (than are those around them), the NPD sufferer may be less likely to seek care than those most affected by the NPD sufferer.
looseheadprop @ 145
I was in Beijing in 1989 in the lead-up to June 4, helping a US TV news organization. People came up to us all the time saying “tell the world what’s happening.”
One day, we had some great footage of police scuffling with some protesters, as the protests began to grow. BUT… it was the same day Lucille Ball died. On that day, if it didn’t have a “Lucy” angle, it didn’t make the broadcast.
Hello again marie,
falling down vs. staying down. Thanks for the gentle and important distinction. I don’t feel so weak now! :)
Ed*ard Teller @ 149
I’m with you. Effectively, all we have to work with is the Democratic Party. The GOP is lost. Anyone with a shred of conscience or morality seems to have left – they may be wandering around in the wilderness like Chaffee, but they HAVE left. There is no working with the GOP – their only language is domination and fear. People who are attracted to the Democratic Party are still people we can work with. I’m more than willing to do that.
raven @ 133
Yes. And Christians have a fair history of killing each other too.
Have fun! Remember back when Lula was still a big ‘ol open raftered space with peeling paint and a venerable fish house?
Ed*ard Teller @ 149
Go Blue!
old gold @ 148
And he tried out for the Monkees and bailed out. He played on Electric Ladyland with Henrix and Hendrix played on Old Times Good Times on the first Stills solo album’ If you haven’t heard the two of them trade licks on that song you need to. In fact, I am!
do-si-do @ 155
Have read your posts. Can’t imagine you ever being described as weak ;-)
Some argue that the problem is not so much with there just being two major political parties, but that the actual downfall of Democracy is how elections in this country are financed. Retail politics. Lobbyists, etc.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 157
OK, so we have established that the human race is full of murderous fuckers and religion just ups the ante.
“… and Hendrix played on Good Times Bad Times on the first Stills solo album’ If you haven’t heard the two of them trade licks on that song you need to.”
That reminds me — anyone know what happened to Guitar Playing Bastard?
Looseheadprop @ 145
thank you for the additional insights. Per Ish’s response, it’s too bad Angelina Jolie wasn’t there to lend a hand in capturing the editor’s interest. (snark)
Peace out, pups. GTG.
Ish @ 154
Yep – timing is everything. Kennedy put in legislation which would have defined temporary employment as being less than 6 months (and which would have required employers using them as temps to either put them on payroll after six months or release them)on the day that the Monica Lewinsky thing broke. Was never heard from again.
do-si-do @ 146
((((do-si-do)))
Re: Myanmar:
You’ll also find several embedded links here at Myanmar News.net.
raven @ 65
Do I need to remind you of Kent State?
dakine01 @ 123
retirin’ in five @ 165
Correction Old Times Good Times.
Fresh thread, up and running for everyone…
I didn’t know Stephen Stills played on “Electric Ladyland,” my all-time favorite album. You can learn something new here every day…
OTOH, are you sure you don’t mean Steve Winwood?
Oh jeepers, I’m feeling like such a dolt today and y’all are being so sweet. thanks I really appreciate it so much.
enough of me. really gtg.
I’m keeping thoughts of brave monks in my heart…see ya.
raven @ 163
I saw (Bill) Clinton interviewed the other day, and he quoted Desmond Tutu; “Religion is like a knife; if you use it to cut bread, that’s fine; If you use it to cut off a man’s arm, not so much” or words to that effect.
Ed*ard Teller @ 174
Traffic
dakine01 @ 152
Don’t forget Bruce Palmer, too!! And yes, that’s the same Messina of Loggins and Messina fame.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 170
Stephen Stills was, of course, a part of the great ode to Kent State: Four Dead In Ohio.
This is almost getting into Kevin Bacon country.
kirk murphy @ 158
Ok, now you’re making me feel old… Used to walk barefoot w/sand between my toes down to Lu’s from my then apt…
Alas, have got to go do the work they pay me for. Read all you wonderful FDL folk later.
Ed*ard Teller @ 174
Upon further review, I am dead ass wrong.
Great news from Burma – mutiny!
(memo to the War Party:
pull a coup here, you’ll see mutiny and the auto-destruction of the US armed forces.
Authoritarian rule is so last-century)
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 178
Furay and Messina were Poco after Buffalo Springfield
dakine01 @ 183
Ed*ard Teller @ 150
Thank You ET.
That comment should be a front page post.
Did I ever tell you guys about the time that I got to serve Steve Winwood and his band a copious amount of beer at the Irish pub I worked at in Philly? *g* He’s an incredibly nice, soft-spoken guy.
Ish @ 155
Exactly!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 186
I wonder if Randall Bramblett, another Athens musician, who plays sax with them was there?
TexasEllen @ 100
Burma is resource rich in oil, gas, minerals and hardwood and China is a major economic player. China has been building roads, pipelines and port facilities to gain access to the Indian Ocean through Burma.
You’re right though re China’s reaction. It vetoed a sanctions proposal at the UNSC along with Russia. France argued for restraint too – TOTALE has a big stake in Burmese oil fields.
“I spent sixteen years as a Green in the most effective Green Party organization in the USA. We got nothing in terms of offices, past the assembly, school board and mayor level. Nothing but resentment from Dems for allegedly taking votes from their column. I’m now a fighting Dem – for the duration.”
Do you live in Sebastopol California
It’s getting to be time. I think something is about ready to break. Someone’s going to do something, and I think we’re moving in a direction of GWB&CO to begin experiencing the beginnings of what happens when war criminals are actually charged, when an outraged world of nations starts the procedural set up to trial and conviction of mass murderers.
Could be a useless hope, maybe I’m finally getting those acid flashbacks I was promised in hi school, but I just have a sense that something is going to break here pretty damned quick, and maybe THAT’S what this is all about.
we can all hope and pray anyway.
siri@legitgov.org