We all knew it was, but it’s nice to see that U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken has made it official:
PORTLAND, Ore. – Two provisions of the USA Patriot Act are unconstitutional because they allow search warrants to be issued without a showing of probable cause, a federal judge ruled Wednesday.
U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken ruled that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as amended by the Patriot Act, “now permits the executive branch of government to conduct surveillance and searches of American citizens without satisfying the probable cause requirements of the Fourth Amendment.”
Portland attorney Brandon Mayfield sought the ruling in a lawsuit against the federal government after he was mistakenly linked by the FBI to the Madrid train bombings that killed 191 people in 2004.
The federal government apologized and settled part of the lawsuit for $2 million after admitting a fingerprint was misread. But as part of the settlement, Mayfield retained the right to challenge parts of the Patriot Act, which greatly expanded the authority of law enforcers to investigate suspected acts of terrorism.
Mayfield claimed that secret searches of his house and office under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act violated the Fourth Amendment’s guarantee against unreasonable search and seizure. Aiken agreed with Mayfield, repeatedly criticizing the government.
“For over 200 years, this Nation has adhered to the rule of law — with unparalleled success. A shift to a Nation based on extra-constitutional authority is prohibited, as well as ill-advised,” she wrote.
How did this come to be? Because Brandon Mayfield is a very clever man:
Mr. Mayfield sued the government, which apologized and agreed to a $2 million settlement last November. The settlement included an unusual condition that freed the government from future liability with one exception. Mr. Mayfield was allowed to continue a suit seeking to overturn parts of the Patriot Act.
It was that suit on which Judge Aiken ruled Wednesday.
This is the most vivid chipping away at the horrendous monstrosity that is the “PATRIOT” Act, but by no means the only one. Earlier this month, a federal judge in New York ruled in favor of the ACLU in a challenge to the Patriot Act on behalf of an Internet service provider that was issued a “national security letter” demanding customer phone and computer records. The judge in that case ruled that the FBI must justify to a court the need for secrecy for more than a “brief and reasonable” period of time.
Yes, the Bushies will appeal. But this ruling is a potent weapon for those Democrats seeking to either overturn the Act entirely, or reform it to eliminate its most vile portions.
UPDATE: Here’s more from TalkLeft (h/t powwow) on how Mayfield and an excellent team of attorneys — including Gerry Spence — pulled this off.
Related posts:
- HJC Schedules “Get Democrats to Cave on PATRIOT” Hearing
- Zazi dans le WaPo: DOJ Feeds Press Still More Justifications for PATRIOT
- Lieberman’s Hunt for a Lone Wolf: Will Fort Hood Shootings be Used to Expand PATRIOT Surveillance?
- Can Skittles help fix the PATRIOT Act and FISA?
- PATRIOT Renewal Hearing, Day One Wrap Up: Who Protects Us from the Protectors?
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zed?
Hey Phoenix Woman!
Oh yeah.
dakine is da man.
We will prevail. We will. We will. We will.
w00t!
Instead of “pay no attention to that man behind the curtain,” Aiken said, “You, behind the curtain: pay attention!” To the Constitution, that is.
Another step forward for the rule of law!
WOW!
He is insanely clever, as he finally got around the standing issue and managed to get to a judge without being forced to argue a hypothetical…he could prove that he had been improperly spied upon, whereas other plaintiffs were never able to prove they had been harmed, and therefore the suits were tossed due to lack of standing.
Finally, a “you can’t prove you were a target because we won’t tell you if you were a target” defense cannot be sustained.
Uh, hopefully. I’m sure they will try.
Gotta love it, here’s Tavis Smiley asking Republicans (who haven’t taken the stage yet) how much they love the American people… As I said downstairs, I’m checking this out during commercials in CSI just for the schadenfreude of it all….
Now, it’s on to the Ninth Circuit, and I don’t foresee them overturning it, but, then it’s onto the Supremes and I place no faith in them…!!! 8-(
Related: Only US copy of the Magna Carta for sale at Sotheby’s
thank goodness Brandon Mayfield didn’t decide to ‘keep his powder dry.’
Marion in Savannah @ 10
Who’s airing the laugh-fest?
CTuttle, PBS, at least here in Savannah.
abject funk @ 9
Nope. They’ve admitted he was a target, and apologized for it before the court.
Now they’re on to the “we’ve got to kill freedom and democracy in order to save it” defense. I don’t think that’s going to fly, though. SCOTUS may be conservative, but I don’t see them cutting their own throat as the third co-equal branch of government and putting a crown on George XLIII.
LS-last thread- we need to save and plant the seeds of healthy food. I’m guessing and hoping and loving and sharing…somebody ought to write a song!
FYI, There is a presidential forum on PBS hosted by Tavis Smiley now. Is this a repeat?
Mixed party debates? Huckabee, Paul and Dems.
Marion in Savannah @ 10
Is there a Repug presidential debate on now? What network?
has the rightwing noise machine jumped on this judge yet?
But of course, what this really means is that retroactive immunity should be granted ASAP to all those telcos.
Marion in Savannah @ 15
Thanx, I have to wait hours more, it’s only three in the afternoon here…!!!
Loo Hoo. @ 17
Dusty Springfield?…Almost?
Tavis Smiley is hosting Tancredo and other major thinkers (and some empty lecterns) on PBS. Tom’s really special…
PW,
Thanks for throwing us some red meat.
debate taking place HBC morgan state in b’more on pbs
great as always to see you pw
U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken ruled that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as amended by the Patriot Act, “now permits the executive branch of government to conduct surveillance and searches of American citizens without satisfying the probable cause requirements of the Fourth Amendment.”
well, that satisfies here legal requirements but when we use this case we need to tweak that quite a bit
we need things like
“U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken ruled that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as amended by the Patriot Act, “now permits the executive branch of government to conduct surveillance and searches of American citizens without making sure they aren’t stealing from us under the guise of security.”
much more effective and we have to frame this so nobody can go the other way
LS @ 23
“Show Him That You Care…just for him…” Go Dusty.
I do love the empty lecterns…
Did nayone know Alan Keyes is running again? *g*
abject funk @ 9
One mistake they made – if I remember correctly – is that they unlocked a door, and forgot to relock it, which is how Mayfield knew someone was in his home because that that door was never used by his family and it was always locked. So, he knew someone was there
Loo Hoo. @ 17
There are organizations out there that work towards doing this.
Organic Seed Alliance
Native Seeds
Peterr, I think you misread my comment. The fact that the government admitted he was a target is why he can get around the standing question…he has standing, as admitted by the government, that is, he was the target of a search without probable cause and he can show that he was the target of the search…instead of merely claiming it.
Other plaintiffs have not been able to prove they were targets because the government wouldn’t tell them if they were or weren’t. This is the case that allows the issue to move forward.
Peterr @ 16
Also, by the time it gets to the top floor Hillary will probably be President, and unless she does a Lieberman shift the current Supremes will take away her power to spy on us (and them).
Millineryman @ 32
Exactly. Patent nature…it should all be thrown out…they are frauds…and people are starving because of their criminal activities…save seeds!!!
RonD @ 30
I do believe he is. God gives us so many great gifts…!
Great post PW, as per usual. Thanks for the good news.
abject funk @ 33
I agree. I was responding to the “Uh, hopefully. I’m sure they will try” that you put at the end of your comment.
blackmail, blackmail, blackmail…
Where is Larry Flynt?
Ron Paul bashing unequal drug laws and the military-industrial complex,consistently getting the most applause.
unlike Obama, who voted aye on renewal of the Patriot Act.
RonD @ 40
He’s an interesting phenomenon — he gets cheers from his audiences, whom I assume are hard-core Republicans. Which makes me go “hmmmmmm…. we may be able to peel lots of them away….”
Marion in Savannah @ 29
Tell us what’s up, please. Not here in California yet, either.
sporkovat@41
and what dems will stand up and work to overturn? cuz we see how well the dems have done…..
I’ve been reading the decision itself, and central to the “standing” issue is the claim of ongoing damage to Mayfield by the government’s continued retention of copies of documents made by the government of his files and dissemination of that material to other government agencies.
Yeah, I’m guessing Mayfield’s clients are not too happy that their lawyer’s files are being passed around the government.
IANAL, but it strikes me that those clients might have some standing in this case as well (or grounds for their own suits). Especially if something they told their attorney — Mayfield — in confidence suddenly shows up in the prosecutor’s possession.
Loo Hoo, Tavis Smiley on PBS is hosting a “debate” of some of the third-tier Republicans. All the big boys had “prior commitments” or some such excuse. They’re represented by empty lecterns. It’s schadenfreudelicious.
Marion in Savannah @ 46
Love…it.
Smack! Court Bushwhacks Administration.
MWAHAHAHAHA! Great post PW.
Breaking:
Exhausted Fred Thompson takes a week off after a weak of campaigning. One staffer was overheard saying Fred got a Lazy Boy recliner for Christmas, and it’s still in the box.
Jeez, I wonder who starts these rumors anyway? ;) Pass it on.
What, exactly, is “probable cause”?
(I already know the historical answer)
Woo-hoo, Mr. Mayfield. You don’t need a ticket, you just get. on. board.
Oilfieldguy @ 48
I don’t know if that was a typo or not, but it made me squirt my cocktail through my nose! Love it!
Millineryman @ 32
Bookmarked. Thanks, MilleneryMan. There used to be a man in these parts, Charles Ledgerwood, who sold the best seeds, but he died several years ago…he was wonderful!
If the elections were really fair, I mean really fair…I bet it would be Kucinich vs Paul. That would fix ‘em all. That is where I think the country is. The votes won’t go that way, because both parties think those candidates are unelectable, so people will vote for someone else…however, however, you never know what someone does behind the curtain…at least it is a short-term victory, until you realize it is a Diebold machine or something. Still…it could happen. That would send a message…Heh.
LS @ 47
Yeah, glad you mentioned it.
Is Frederick of Hollywood at the debate? Or is he too plum tuckered out from all his jawin’ with regular folks and drivin’ his golf cart and such?
Marion in Savannah @ 36
I’m stupid. Who is he? The name sounds so familiar.
My, Alan Keyes is on fire… or off his meds… (CSI had a commercial).
From the decision:
“Since the adoption of the Bill of Rights in 1791, the government has been prohibited from gathering evidence for use in a prosecution against an American citizen in a courtroom unless the government could prove the existence of probable cause that a crime has been committed. The hard won legislative compromise previously embodied in FISA reduced the probable cause requirement only for national security intelligence gathering. The Patriot Act effectively eliminates that compromise by allowing the Executive Branch to bypass the Fourth Amendment in gathering evidence for a criminal prosecution.”
That pretty much sums it up.
RonD @ 40
good! Thanks, RonD. Keep us posted, please.
LS @ 53
I agree.
Loo Hoo. @ 56
Idiot right wing black republican who was Obama’s “competition” for the Illinois Senate seat. Ran for president at least once as Rethug and got beaten badly in the primaries. To the right of Cheney et al.
Loo Hoo, Alan Keyes is an attractive black man who drank the Kool-Aid and has gone COMPLETELY off the deep end. He tossed his daughter out of the house because she came out, as I recall. He’s a really special guy.
Love the picture you used for this post, Phoenix Woman! Sums it up nicely how we’re feeling. :-)
Honestly, I think the Patriot Act was written well before the 2000 election by the neocons of the PNAC, but that’s me. The whole thing should be considered un-Constitutional and un-American if you ask me.
Peterr @ 58
So, again, what constitutes “probable cause”?
C’mon, lawyers.
Alan Keyes? That’s not good for Guliani. Keyes will hammer Guliani for not being sufficiently pro-blastocyte.
I would not be surprised to see a slew of malicious charges against prominent African-Americans….that is what they do to break up the newly found unity, but it won’t work. The young people are savvy these days and are highly underestimated. They get rid of any influential people and try to keep the “masses” under control. Like they keep saying…technology…it’s going to bite the powers that be, right in the butt. JMHO
Whohoo, Peter, that could become good fun:
IANAL, but it strikes me that those clients might have some standing in this case as well (or grounds for their own suits). Especially if something they told their attorney — Mayfield — in confidence suddenly shows up in the prosecutor’s possession.
Oilfieldguy @ 48
I don’t think he is serious about running at all and he probably will have lots of time to recline. Notice how he has dropped off the news – not a word any where.
BobbyG @ 64
Probable cause means more likely than not.
Loo Hoo, iirc, he ran against Obama for the senate in 2004. Somehow 17% sticks in my mind.
paranoia
intimidation
blackmail
runny nose, itchy fingers, or burning ears
etc..
More from the decision:
“[Restating the govt’s argument] In place of the Fourth Amendment, the people are expected to defer to the Executive Branch and its representation that it will authorize such surveillance only when appropriate. The defendant here is asking this court to, in essence, amend the Bill of Rights, by giving it an interpretation that would deprive it of any real meaning. This court declines to do so.
“For over 200 years, this Nation has adhered to the rule of law – with unparalleled success. A shift to a Nation based on extra-constitutional authority is prohibited, as well as illadvised.”
Thank you Judge Aiken!
Oilfieldguy @ 48
HAHA!!! He was required to walk to the Christmas tree to get said recliner, from a distance of 20 feet. Konked on account of the hot chocolate.
ro_-paul-is-really-_ig-arou_d-here-_ot-to-_e-dis_issed
de_s-who-are-disillusio_ed-like-hi_
Valley Girl @ 70
He also ran for president in 2000. He’s a rightwing African-American TheoCon who (among other things) says viciously homophobic things despite having an openly lesbian daughter.
Dmac, your comments are jumbled. Is that on purpose? LOL If so, I need a decoder ring please.
i’_-hu_gry-where-the-hel-is-te_as-_etsy
dmac @ 74
But he still doesn’t have a chance in hell, any more than Kucinich does. Facts of political life are facts of political life…
well, there’s this:
~~~But why would Keyes, a former Harvard roommate of über-neocon Bill Kristol, enter the race, especially this late, when he surely has no campaign money and little chance (or time) to raise any, and when he’s never won even one of the numerous elections in which he’s run, including for president in 1996 and 2000 and for U.S. Senate from Illinois against Obama in 2004?~~~
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/kramer2.html
and keyes was IMPORTED to run against obama….repugs are a classy bunch no lmao!
dmac @ 77
Is there some point to this style of writing?
Tancredo: The welfare state is the cause of racial injustice.
KayInMaine @ 76
It looks to me like the keyboard went nuts, and N,B,M and space (at least) are not working. Look on it as a puzzle!
dmac- please go try the WD40 and then the vodka, as I advised you on a previous thread. ;)
RonD @ 30
Someone not long ago did post that Keyes had thrown his straitjacket into the ring. Maybe it was over at TPM, either Josh or Kurtz.
Duncan Hunter: the justice system can’t be more fair than a jury trial.
BobbyG @ 64
IANAL, but it basically means you have to have something to back up your theory beyond your gut feeling. (Michael Chertoff obviously has trouble with this.)
Mayfield was supposed to have been the Madrid bomber, yet (as the opinion states) he had no passport, nor had he been out of the country since his service in the military in the 1990s.
kay-
_y-key_aord-died———_otto_row-does_’t-work-that-i__udes-the-spa_e_ar
_o-joke-it’s-fu__y
abject funk @ 33
Thanks very much for the expert legal analysis.
Marion in Savannah @ 83
If I deciphered her correctly on an earlier thread, her regular keyboard got soaked and the one she is using does not have a working bottom row or space bar.
RonD @ 82
1984 — what is black is white, what is white is black. They just don’t get it. They just spew it out… Maybe Tancredo will come back as a cricket and work his way up…again.
prostratedragon @ 85
Plus, during the commercials, I can get to watch him hold forth on PBS this evening. He’s BAAAAAACK!
dmac @ 88
Oh.
Marion,
No, no typo. I actually backed up to fix it that way. Still, a guy who has a Lazy boy recliner still in the box after ten months, well, that’s just lazy.
Huckabee: we’re imprisoning drug people who need treatment. Gotta quit locking up the people we’re mad at, and lock up the people we’re afraid of.
raven @ 93
dmac, don’t drink the vodka…it is for the keyboard!
Marion in Savannah @ 83
As decoded on a previous thread, the space bar and whole bottom row of characters are not working on dmac’s keyboard.
Not that dmac’s letting that slow things down as far as commenting goes. “No, I’m not an FDL addict. I can quit any time I want. I just choose to keep commenting, even though my keyboard is 25% dead.”
Peterr @ 58
And pretty much fucks it up. I wonder if people appreciate our former rights. Apparently not, when even the Congress continues to throw them away. Even a democratic Congress.
keyes is an educated buffoon imo… but he’s one of many there tonight
Paul:Legalize it.
Cheers.
dmac @ 88
raven @ 93
I know it must be driving you nuts but it is funny. Having a good time trying to figure it out.
RonD @ 95
What does this even mean? Is it some dominionist, non-evolutionist code?
Peterr @ 72
Jumping over the fence…
Running Wildly….
Slaming the door…
Hi! Everybody, if anybody asks I was here between 11:00 p.m. to 3 a.m. yesterday—
Wahoo!
My brand new heros!!!!!
1). Atty. Brandon Mayfield
2). U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken
john in sacramento @ 31
I think it was the original Watergate burglars who were discovered because they replaced some tape that they’d put over a lock, after the watchman on rounds had already removed it once. Another episode of The Annals of Idiotic Persistence.
juslin @ 99
But the empty lecterns are probably more educated, no? And I DON’T mean the people they represent…
TeddySanFran @ 102
I know. It seems so…rational.
Peterr @ 87
Thank goodness the government has a multi billion dollar database with information on all Americans, so they can check stuff like this before it goes too far.
ra_e-Is there some point to this style of writing?
yesssssssssss-asshole-key_oard-fried——–ok———–_otto_row-of-key_oard-is-out—–usi_g-_a_kup-key
_oard———–other-o_e-is-fried———-
juslin @ 99
I think the GOP got tired of the pundit class criticizing them for looking like, well, a bunch of straight white men running for President. They hope Keyes will take the wind outta our diversity sails.
raven @ 81
A liquid drenched Key Board!
Twain @ 101
g’nite
the law is clear is it not in matters of civil rights? oh there i go again talking about the constitution something i know nothing about
RonD @ 95
Bush/Cheney is pretty skeery.
TeddySanFran @ 102
I took it as a decriminalize weed (and reduce mandatory drug sentences, because we can’t afford to incarcerate them all)and put Bush in jail. ymmv.
OT: After reading this I think I’ll buy some Miller beer.
William Donahue of the Catholic League told Fox news on Thursday that his organization plans to call for a boycott of Miller Beer over an advertisement for a gay block party in San Francisco.
http://rawstory.com//news/2007….._0927.html
Peterr @ 72
This is so fantastic! Will it be headlines in the WaPo and NYT tomorrow?
Guess we’ll see.
And thanks, Marian and dakine. I remember the Keyes now.
dmac @ 108
Don’t you mean:
ra_e-Is-there-so_e-poi_t-to-this-style-of-writi_g-
oh yeah – keyes is good for trotting out a negro to show how diverse the repugs are…..of course there’s a few others but keyes will always rise to the “occasion”
For all those who say: “Unwarranted surveillance? Who cares? If you’re innocent, you’ve got nothing to hide” – the facts of the Mayfield case cited in this opinion are the answer and the rebuttal.
Mr. Mayfield’s gross mistreatment at the hands of the police authorities of his own government is and was appalling and every bit as ominous and chilling as that of similar KGB, Stasi, or SS abuses of totalitarian power. What shortened and limited Mayfield’s mistreatment and time in jail? The good police work of the Spanish National Police who quickly caught the man who actually made the fingerprint impression that the FBI tried to frame Mayfield with. Otherwise, who knows how long Mr. Mayfield might have been held as a “terrorist” until proven innocent…
An absolutely innocent man and his family put through the ringer – bugs placed in his house, secret searches of his home and law office, taps on his phones approved through the 2001 PATRIOT Act amendments to FISA – and all because he was “guilty” of being an American citizen and Armed Forces veteran who practices the Muslim faith. The details of the concocting of a fingerprint “match” by the FBI and DOJ as laid out in this ruling are appalling.
It’s quite an obvious case of bias against a religion and those who practice it driving an investigation. Mayfield was arrested and thrown into jail as a “material witness” on the misleading say-so of the FBI and DOJ. [The same way AG-nominee Judge Mukasey allowed Jose Padilla to be incarcerated as a “material witness” a couple of years earlier on slim to no evidence of involvement in the activities alleged.]
We owe Mr. Mayfield and his family a huge debt for pursuing this case as he has, because his standing to address these Constitutional abuses is second to none, and obviously doesn’t come along all that often, what with all the “state secrets” of our national security state.
This ruling also bears directly on the pending changes to FISA which will attempt to remedy August’s “Protect America Act” gutting of the checks and balances inherent in our Constitution and the attendant disregard of the Fourth Amendment. Because 2001’s “clearly erroneous” language surfaced again this year, along with other similarly egregious and hugely significant wording changes, in August’s PAAct revision to FISA as written by the White House and “stampeded” through Congress, the same logic Judge Aiken applied in this ruling will apply in large part to the new, even more unConstitutional, provisions of FISA.
The Judicial Branch comes through yet again with a principled defense of our Constitution, by way of another open rebuke of unConstitutional legislation heedlessly passed by our corrupt, compromised and increasingly-marginalized Legislative Branch of government. Those rights and liberties, and inherent Constitutional powers of our federal legislature, now locked away – unused and unacknowledged by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid – in some dark basement corner of Capitol Hill, need to be set free and enforced upon our Executive Branch of government on behalf of all the Brandon Mayfields among us.
TeddySanFran @ 102
Huckabee may be crackers, but he’s his own kind of crackers (and he’s pretty sharp).
I’m thoroughly impressed with the empty lecterns…I’ll vote for them.
Oilfieldguy @ 113
You people need to get right by the Lawd.
Matter of fact you just ain’t right.
I salute you….
Boo Radley @ 114
Along those lines, I read an AP article stating that there are a lot more blacks and hispanics locked up, than occupying college dorms…!!! 8-(
twai_-at-102-I know it must be driving you nuts but it is funny. Having a good time trying to figure it out.
it-is-fu__y-i-a_-laughi_g-out-loud-_elie_e-_e
LS @ 121
what wood / jeebus do?
Duncan Hunter is just plain full of crap. I keep expecting lightning to strike him…
huckabee lost 100# and most of his sanity
Peterr @ 97
707!
dmac @ 74
My daughter has a friend here in SoCal military world who said his entire extended family is voting for Paul. Almost nobody is too stupid for their shirt.
The R solution for healthcare seems to be “bring back the family doctor.”
That’s a quote.
dmac @ 124
New keyboard tomorrow?
punaise @ 125
Throw the other lecterns over.
Keyes, bored – a good candidate for some of that WD-40 and vodka.
LS @ 121
I would to, but I’d have to vote in a [gasp, gag] Republican primary… No thanks. I’ll keep on keeping on and vote for John Edwards. (But if I were forced to vote in the other side’s primary I’d vote for an empty lectern too.)
dmac- seriously, have you tried spraying with WD-40? In my experience, it does work.
p.s. kills cockroaches too!
hunter – tancredo – huckabee- keyes… u takes ur cherce lol
KayInMaine @ 76
Her keyboard is all screwed up. She’s performing wonderfully, no??!!
dmac, a few years back I broke my wrist and was in a cast. My family had a lot of fun with this. One of them said (in solidarity) he would not use his shift key until I was recovered. Another (like p*k*r) raised the ante and gave up vowels. I kept all the e-mails, they are hilarious.
Paul: get rid of managed care. Problem is big healthcare and big Pharma. No competition.
tha_ks-egregious-i-lo_e-you-a_d-_ot-just-_e_ause_i’_-_i-polar
RonD @ 82
So the legalized white supremacy prior to the 60’s had nothing to do with it?
So it’s the welfare state that doomed the Sioux , the Cheyenne, and all the other Native American tribes?
Wrt the descendants of the slaves, I think a lot of it has to do with the non-payment of the present value of the money that is still owed to their ancestors. Since that payment will never happen, increased access to health care, education, and Social Security Disability (with its TICKET TO WORK program) might be a nice compromise.
juslin @ 127
That is also his universal health plan for America. Just lose 180 lbs and you wont ever need a doctor.
Marion in Savannah @ 134
It was sad to learn the Russians are getting rid of the option to vote for “None of the Above.”
Gee, Dr. Paul gave me this great deal on this V*o*x.
dmac @ 139
Tha_k-you-_y-frie_d
Boo Radley @ 114
I thought his basic gist was rehab instead incarceration.
Brownback: expand healthcare savings accounts, ’cause government never works.
Hunter: do everything you can to stay healthy.
Also a quote.
punaise @ 125
Perform a liverectomy perhaps on Sir Mon du Mount?
dmac @ 139
You know, once we all know what the problem with your keyboard is it’s very easy to read your comments. Keep on talking.
OT…but good news!
hee-hee:
Sparkatus @ 21
This is an issue where the dems could stand tall..
If the immunity is inevitable (which I fear it is — big money, politics and no telling what assurances the govt gave those folks), it should be a trade-off for “irrevocable” net neutrality. Unimpeded (commercially) freedom of speech.
We would have to beat the *dems* over the head with this 24/7. I’m not sure the country at large would understand the importance of this issue, but it ties together nicely.
pu aise, you fu y.
Paul is the Repub candidate…Bwahahaha…that is really gonna send the neocons into damage control…heee, heee…love…it.
Ummm, but then they’ll definitely not leave…well..I knew that.
Hmmmm…we’ll make ‘em leave for sure. They’ve gotta go.
and those on welfare are living large n’est pas? they all driving caddies huh repugs….. just stop this madness
RonD @ 145
I guess that means that it’s your fault if you get sick. A**hats !
twȝk @ 144
Yes, you’re probably more accurate.
BobbyG, probable cause is sometimes characterized as “articulable suspicion.” Per earlier comments, it is more than a “gut feeling” and requires the government officer to define what about particular behavior is more than just plain suspicion. Put another way, there needs to be a statement of things that move conduct from “not feeling right” to “X and Y behavior indicated that the suspect was attempting to do something illegal or had done something illegal.”
See Sen. Craig. (I have problems with that case due to the fact that soliciting sex in public places, i.e., trying to hook up is fine in my book, especially bars, but so too in public bathrooms if that is your thing, provided you don’t actually have sex in public). In any event, behavior that can be described as more than likely than not to indicate criminal intent or culpability.
Obviously, it is a case by case situation, and courts are very deferential to law enforcement (again, see Sen. Craig). However, being black and driving in an all-white suburb, while “suspicious” in one sense, is not probable cause. That said, driving while black in an all-white suburb, driving slowly, and scoping out homes most likely would (unfortunately) justify a traffic stop, and perhaps even charges if a search of the car yielded tools or other items that indicated an intent to commit burlary.
So, it is a lot like pornography. Judges are supposed to know it when they see it. It is very imprecise, and as you probably can imagine, the judgment call is often freighted with biases and prejudice. The courts, when they do things right, try to filter these biases and prejudices out, but they are never perfect. Nothing ever is.
As a final example, flipping the bird to a cop while driving lawfully is protected speech (in most places). However, any deviation from any traffic laws would allow the cop to pull you over for probable cause that a law has been broken…despite the fact that it is clear that it is the bird that caused the stop, not the traffic law violation. The cop would merely have to say you were 1 mph over the speed limit, or had a broken tail lamp, etc. It is a pretext, but it would be enough for them to pull you over, and if you are drunk, etc., you are going to get nailed even though everyone knows it was the protected speech that caused you to be pulled over, not your technical violation of the law.
Bush and Cheney sit in a diner and a waitress asks them what they would like.
Bush: I would like a quicky.
Waitress: Well, I have never been so insulted in all my life.
Cheney: Mr. President, I think it’s pronounced “quiche”.
Valley Girl @ 79
You mean he’s freaking running?
Keyes is SUCH a special candidate, with SUCH special thoughts. I really, truly hope he wins the nomination. The presidential debates would be worth watching, that’s for sure…
RonD @ 130
But I don’t have any doctors in my family.
juslin @ 152
Was it Reagan who talked about the welfare queens?
There is no portion of our government which the Bushies have not attempted…and too often succeeded…in diminishing these last 7 years.
John Edwards had it right today on CNN. Bush is the worst president in my lifetime…and maybe ever, he said. I’d say definitely ever.
Is it some psychopathological need to get back at Reperps and all of America ’cause his daddy didn’t get a second term? Who knows. But sure will be glad when Bush is gone.
And the current Myanmar shiny object distraction from Iraq is cynical Bushiness at its worst–they even defrosted Pickles for it. But we won’t be diverted. Because too many Americans want our troops home. Now. Alive. And whole. And the Bushies may want to forget them. And change the subject. And hope their MSM minions’ spotlight is diverted elsewhere. But we won’t forget.
Heckuva job, Bushie.
Demand better. Be better.
Loo Hoo. @ 157
Commenters here have suggested that. I got no idea, cept for that, and google.
And Ron Paul keeps on getting cheers… Gotta love it…
dmac @ 88
Yes, dear.
and no doubt our national friendly fascist welcoming committee (aka the Justice Dept) intends to appeal this one all the way to the Supremes (after persuaded some judge somewhere to stay the lower court ruling), where Clarence Thomas will no doubt pen the majority opinion restoring the Heroic New Order, solely on the grounds that he is experiencing indigestion from a falafal.
marymccurnin @ 159
hee-hee..
spewed tea right out my nose…
tough night for keyboards at the Lake
There it was -we cannot keep “perpetuating the Welfare State”
kirk murphy @ 148
Oh YES!
Charlie Brown for Congress!!
FDL Blue America for donations. Woohoo!
p.s. Loo Hoo, but I did find it was interesting that he is said to be a former Harvard roommate of Bill Kristol.
_alley-girl-135- September 27th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
dmac- seriously, have you tried spraying with WD-40? In my experience, it does work.
p.s. kills cockroaches too!”
yes-i-left-you-a-_essage-i_-the-last-thread-
i-_ould_’t-get-the-da__-thi_g-apart-s_rews-that-would_’t-let-go-so-i-flushed-the-da__-thi_g———this-key_oard-is-_y-_a_kup-_otto_row_of_keys_does_’t-work
so-i-did-what-tw3-suggested-i-flushed-the-da__ed-thi_g
Juan Williams: what about the War?
Keyes: incoherent.
Huckabee: we need a vet’s bill of rights, to make sure promises to vets are kept.
Paul:No war unless it is declared. False pretenses. Some still connect 9/11 and Iraq, wrongly. We’re not caring for the vets cuz we’re BROKE! We can’t police an empire and fix America.
Brownback: We DID declare war. 3 state Federal system the answer for Iraq.
Tancredo: Declare it, fund it. Or not fund it. No other role for Congress.
ron paul has huge following on the tubes but since that doesnt count according to MSM he’s written off
Twain @ 101
It’s a freaking IQ test!
Marion in Savannah @ 163
he.. Well rethugs, I wish y’all luck with the 5% rethug turnout in November ‘08 for X-Dem vs Paul.
Marion in Savannah @ 163
Do ya think it might dawn on ‘em…?!!! 8~)
bg @ 150
f y stra ge & f y ha-ha, all in one easy to use package… :~)
marymccurnin @ 159
Funnee….
Queen of the pun for a day….
Eureka Springs @ 142
The two previous Mrs. Rudi Ghoulianis must be enjoying perfect health then!
dmac, I am not as good at reading the limping keyboard messages as others are… but I never said you had to take the keyboard apart. That’s the beauty of WD-40.
Flushed? as in covered with water? well, dry it off and get busy with the WD-40.
RonD, I apologize. I guess you were quoting Rethugs above.
juslin @ 172
Every time I’ve watched one of these Republican things he gets cheers. Is it only “the tubes folks” who turn out for these things? I’ve never been to one so I really don’t know how you get an in…
Prairie Sunshine @ 161
He is fu*king up again cause he hates his dad. And himself. And cause he has NO ability. And other people have no presence in his conciousness. He is an idiot crazy person. Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying he is stupid just an idiot crazy person.
Boo Radley @ 114
Never ever take the keyboard apart.
SunnyNobility @ 151
The real problem with this immunity crap is that they want immunity for the administration officials who persuaded telcos to break law. That’s the sticking point, giving Bush immunity for his warrantless spying on us.
kirk murphy @ 150
When did the subpoena become optional? This is serious subpoena creep.
Cynthia Tucker: Do we have a role in ending genocide in Darfur?
Huckabee: the real genocide is abortion here.
Paul: No. It’s a civil war. Individuals can get involved if they want. Bring ‘em home from everywhere.
Hunter: Yes. Divestiture, African Union troops, but not ours.
Tancredo: Yes, but not troops. Get the UN to do it.
Hunter: Yes. AfUn not getting it done. Armed UN and AfUn convoys, along with training and arming the villagers to fight the janjaweed.
TeddySanFran @ 178
Yeah, he’s right…if you are 5′2″ and you lose 180lbs…that pretty much means you won’t need a doctor “no” more….you’ll be pushing up daisies, if you started out at 200lbs. Jeez…what can I say…don’t ask.
Valley Girl @ 184
That is one of the funniest things ever typed on FDL.
Re “probable cause.”
(I been away cookin chops)
A couple of good answers. The historical “original intent” answer (per Cuddihy, the seminal historical authority on the 4th), circa the founding it simply meant “someone in authority attested so before a magistrate.”
Now, empirically it indeed should mean “more likely than not.” Which, being an empirical matter, should be post-hoc analyzable, i.e., look at all of judge X’s grants of warrrants and/or other state intrusions (under the “exceptions” thingy). Did more than 50% culminate in other than acquittals or dismissals?
Terrah prosecution convictions post-9/11 are dismal in this regard, BTW, running below 30%.
Interesting aside (maybe only to me). We say we gotta have “probable cause” to initiate proceedings, but then the accused thereupon has the “presumption of innocence.”
Hello, cognitive dissonance.
Ahhh….language.
Marion in Savannah @ 105
Cult film classics, anyone? I’m torn between Trent, the (black) Hari Rhodes character in Shock Corridor who was racially bludgeoned into thinking he was the founder of the KKK (he assaulted the asylum’s janitor, who he thought wanted to marry his daughter), and Don Young, screamingly played by David Alan Grier in Amazon Women on the Moon as a black man with the tragic affliction of an utter lack of soul (BB King did a latenite psa-style appeal for donations to help find a cure).
Brownback trying to square “culture of life” with death penalty.
Keyes: we support the death penalty because we appreciate the sactity of life.
Repub’s motto: Make it go away.
marymccurnin @ 189
Sniff. Wa era not emusad. Vellay Girl is wisa.
_ario_-at-149-You know, once we all know what the problem with your keyboard is it’s very easy to read your comments. Keep on talking.
tha_ks-_u_-i’__getti_g-ready-for-k_ee-surgery-a_d-do)’t-k_ow-if-i’ll-fi_d-a-key_oard-_y-the_——–
Prairie Sunshine @ 163
TradMed is covering Myanmar, but the Preznit talked about Burma at the UN. The placecard for the country, at the UN, even said Myanmar. Is there some secret neocon code reason for calling the country by its former name? (And yes, I know the name has gone back and forth, but isn’t it the height of an insult to call out a country at the UN by the wrong name? Or maybe Myanmar was simply beyond the skills of the Preznitchal Phonetix Team?)
RonD @ 192
Brownback looks at one hand-life.
Looks at the other-death.
Juggles the notion back and forth.
Comes up with nada.
RonD @ 192
Brownback, the evangelical-turned-Roman Catholic, might want to give Benedict a call. Even the pope gave up on that one.
RonD @ 187
Like they even know where Darfur is. Oh…pl..ea..se…they need maps! Ms. SC said so.
nonplussed @ 169
For Halliburton and other corporations
Williams:Integration?
Brownback: voluntary
Tancredo: school choice. Forced integration is racist.
dmac @ 196
You’re getting ready for key surgury? Didn’t you see what VG said about taking apart the keyboard?
*g*
Good luck with your knee, and with the therapy that will follow.
RonD @ 194
Easy. The ‘life’ they care about is human life, and the people executed aren’t human to begin with. Neither are brown people, the people without healthcare, the people in our armed forces, or the people of New Orleans.
Debate over now. That was…mildly surreal.
RonD @ 205
and mildly insulting.
GordnoM: ayah, Vellay Girl spiek frun eyperiants.
amoeba
How’s this for a weird debate credit: “Produced by Jonathan X”?
RonD @ 204
In that case, I call on rethugs to voluntarily segregate themselves to a homeland we’ll create for ‘em somewhere. Far away.
RonD @ 205
We have become rather jaded in some regards.
OT: Maybe handy for some pups.
I think we should look into getting up a list of democratic consultants and publishing about them. Here’s an example: Peter Fenn, an advisor to Al Gore. Here is a list of his corporate clients from his web site: 3M, Lockheed-Martin, Realtors tm and Purdue Pharma.
Nighty night, pups. My “get off the net and get to bed” alarm just went off. I’ll see y’all in the morning, with coffee, tea and hot biscuits.
Loo Hoo. @ 17
Loo Hoo,
Anyone who isn’t aware of seedsavers.org should check them out. They are on the case. It’s easy to help and secure wonderful seeds.
seed savers
LS @ 190
What I meant was that they had each lost the 180 pounds that is Rudi, but I guess it’s not funny if I need to ’splain it…
I thought it was wildly entertaining. I noticed from the pans of the crowd that it appeared they had packed the seats with white Republicans, a goodly number of whom appeared to be of the College Republican Variety.
g’nite, Marion.
sleep well.
_alley-girl-at-186-
Never ever take the keyboard apart.
_ooooooooooo-of_ourse-i-had-to-take-the-key_oard-apart
i’_-li_e_ed——–i-did-it-with-the-_est-s_rewdri_ers———-
nonplussed @ 126
Fortunately for him and his firstborn, the firstborn is named Duncan Hunter ll. He is running in his father’s stead.
GordonM @ 211
It wasn’t as bad as some, where they discuss doubling Gitmo, attacking the whole world, and making the goose-step compulsory.
Loo Hoo. @ 222
Yep. The shrubocrat’s dream – hereditary congressional seats. Like the senatus caste in Ancient Rome.
nonplussed @ 219
Wasn’t the debate held at a historically black college? Will these poor dears receive an escort off campus?
dmac @ 221
Then I assume that you are virgin keyboard wrecker. Sigh.
Eureka Springs @ 141
What if you only weighed 120 to begin with?
Loo Hoo. @ 227
Then you need to divorce your 180 pound husband.
TeddySanFran @ 216
It is night, and I think it’s funny..at night I need some ’splainin too…since I ate..grrrr..the pillows and the remote too…grrr…scratch…..and I’m guilty…cause I blamed it on the mastiff…two Ghouliani’s…yes….
Loo Hoo. @ 225
That is not a productive attitude to express in front of the Bush Youth…
TeddySanFran @ 223
Why have Repug candidates treated the African-American community as if they just don’t want their votes and don’t care? Don’t they realize they need every vote they can get? And they don’t even try to hide how they feel – stunning.
tha_ks-peterr-it-is-_i_or-surgery-a-_o_e-_hip-that-_eeds-to-_e-re_o_ed——–had-_ajor-surgery-_efore-this-is-_othi_———–
oh well there’s your repugs in action – life – death – and noooooo welfare……excepting of course the major fundraisers for us repugs….loads of bux for them guys ;)
So what was their position on the burning of witches?
Huckabee: I’m the only one here who as a governor has had to burn witches. So I have experience.
Keyes: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live and besides they probably are Democrats anyway.
Tancredo: There are too many witches in this country and more sneaking across the border every day.
Paul: The government should stay out of the potions business.
Brownback: It depends on whether they favor evolution or intelligent design.
Hunter: I would have to check to see if they have paid me campaign bribes.
Hugh @ 232
Please..tell me you are making this up??? Brisingamen? Are you watching this? Heh.
well bless your lil heart chile – you mean skinny people never ever get sick?? i tell ya you want simple-minded – you just saw it
Twain @ 231
talking to a lobbyist friend about this a few weeks ago, who actually suspects that they DO have their electoral calculus worked out on this issue — they actually believe that every point of African-American support will cost them a fractional point of white support, which, once the absolute population sizes are factored in, means that every marginal gain among Blacks means a greater marginal loss among whites. In other words, their base is so racist that they will run from any candidate whose African-American poll numbers are going up. It’s hideous. A significant portion of their base will most inclined to support whichever candidate has the LEAST minority support.
Twain @ 231
After Katrina, they know they’ll never get black votes. What’s really shameful is that the GOP is now also discarding the votes of soccer moms and other suburbanites who really aren’t necessarily un-racist, but have no interest in being associated with a party that doesn’t care about black people.
George Bush was convinced by Karl Rove that he had to pretend to care about black people (”compassionate conservatism”) in order to win the votes of those independents who may, in their hearts, be racist (as so many Americans are without knowing or admitting it) but don’t want to knowingly vote for a racist.
It is the death knell of the GOP that you hear behind those empty lecterns.
Valley Girl @ 169
There’s some mighty fine company.
True. It’s, like,
“Yeah, we’re a bunch of rich white guys, but we didn’t ask to be born this way! We know we used to..um..not always hear you, but we’re much better now! Besides, those Democrats…they just want to make sure that…you don’t ever get to be white! Or, I mean, get lots of stuff. That’s not racist, is it? Wanting black folks to…succeed? Like Bill O’Reilly says!”
Jeebus. Is Darkblack around?
repugs dont care about african americans…. they’ve done fine with reagan dems and the southern strategy….
juslin @ 231
These guys hit a brick wall eons ago. But since they have no sense of feeling they have no idea that they are broken and look stupid.
Valley Girl @ 184
Heck, no. Keyboards are cheap.
Blub @ 237
Bullseye, really well stated.
juslin @ 239
If what I am hearing is true, their southern strategy is getting cracks in it. I completely lack any understanding of this kind of twisted and disgusting thinking.
Hugh @ 232
The least factual, but most accurate, liveblog of the debate.
“It is the death knell of the GOP that you hear behind those empty lecterns.”
I hope you’re right TSF.
marymac@242
ummm i’m not so sure.. i think the race isn’t the cakewalk we think it may be…repugs have shit in place to maintain their illicit hold on this fascist gov’t and they aint going down w/o a fierce fight
Boo Radley @ 245
Not if the reapportionment of the Cali electorial votes takes place.
SeamusD @ 185
ust
This needs to be decided. I just hate to think what has become of our Judicial system.
marymccurnin @ 240
Yup. You’re looking at guys competing to have the 2 line mention in history books (one line in wiki) about the guy who wasn’t president. There’s more than a few I suspect are in it only as a fund-raising angle.
Loo Hoo. @ 243
It’s when you throw it through the monitor that things get expensive.
The debate hasn’t aired here yet! I hadn’t seen anyone mention McCain or Mitt! Who was there?
RonD @ 209
Bill’O prolly thinks Jonathan is a distant cousin to Malcolm the Tenth.
CTuttle @ 251
Nobody
CTuttle @ 251
The 2nd tier guys. Ghouliani, Mitt, McCain, all no-shows.
marymccurnin @ 255
Heh, that’s a given…!!! ;-)
Twain @ 245
fixed it for you
jonathan x has been tavis’ producer for a long time…
RonD @ 256
Mahalo! I might sit it out then…!!!
pups on the lake are crazy – lmao!!
Someday, the traditional corporatist branch of the rethug party will wake up and realize that their party no longer exists. They’ll find that they’ve been throwing money at a contemporary reprise of the National Soc*al*st German Workers Party and that they’re not actually on the New Order’s list of fascist corporate partners.
punaise @ 256
thanks, friend.
CTuttle @ 258
It’s kinda fun, though, watching Ron Paul slap the others around with a rolled-up copy of the Constitution.
CTuttle @ 251
McCain was shopping at an Indiana fair, protected by 100s of armed marines and air backup.
Mitt was consulting with Dr. Frist re. temporary colostomy bags for Golden Retrievers on car trips.
g’evening folks – mitt and rudy the ghoul were in ca today trying to raise money – i was lucky and did not run into either of em.
Ya know. The guys in power now are looking at the up and coming onslaught of “contenders”. They will do anything it takes to make sure that those that replace them, if that indeed happens, are aligned with them to their satisfaction. If they don’t have in place those that they believe should succeed, they will take action to make sure their objectives are met. I don’t see them walking away and giving up their power to anyone that is not within their realm of control or acceptance. Maybe it is always like that to some degree. I do not know. Tiz a puzzelement.
All top-tiered Republican candidates had scheduling conflicts and took a pass at the debates. Apparently, they feel minorities are too small a part of their primary to give any time to. How sad for them.
Suzanne @ 263
Who was lucky??
Al Kamen’s snark is sharp in tomorrow’s WaPo:
You’ve got to click through to hear how it ends.
and how did that $9.11 work for ghouliani?
punaise @ 258
punaise,
you are a saltine old dog.
RonD @ 263
I liked the fact he elicited the most applause…!!! 8-)
punaise @ 256
must.not.read.comments.while.consuming.fluids
Hugh, I knew you had lots of talents, but a comedian? This is a first. And good for you! Dmac has set the tone, here. I can’t stop laughing!
Suzanne @ 266
sounds like this state really needs to tighten its visa restrictions.
Suzanne @ 266
Fixed for you.
marymccurnin @ 271
a Triscuit, I’ll task it.
you fix it, I’ll fax it.
kirk murphy @ 273
Just ask dmac about that…!!! ;-)
Peterr @ 276
yeah, i hear there is a rumor that i’m a ball-crusher
CT — how did things turn out today? Did Boston come any closer to clinching the pennant today?
I’m just asking.
RonD @ 256
Thompson was resting.
tha_ks-_g-at-138–(-)_geeeee-(sou_-ds-like-eeeee-ggggggggg——_ut-it-_usssssssesssssssslike-a-_eeeeeeeee)
GordonM @ 264
LMAO They could not have made a more powerful statement than they did by their absence.
punaise @ 277
S’more S’more!
marymccurnin @ 284
everything’s better when it sits on a Fitz?
Peterr @ 276
BigMitch @ 280
FTFY!!! :P
punaise @ 285
I can’t top that.
Loo Hoo. @ 275
No, not a first. A while back we were treated to the Hugh series of comments on English as the National Language. Can’t find my link to them, though.
Suzanne @ 280
And Jane’s jealous.
prolly too early for a slinky shuffle groove, but here’s a great oldie:
Traffic – Shanghai Noodle Factory
TeddySanFran @ 281
In his Lazy Boy???
Late Nite is up
marymccurnin @ 288
well, Cheeze Whiz!
Hey Suzanne – they asked for it!
_tuttle-at-279-Just ask dmac about that…!!! ;-)
fu#k-you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_ahalo
dmac @ 280
*spew*
CTuttle @ 292
more likely Bigotboy, like the rest of the no shows… and most of those who came as well
punaise @ 294
Oh quit all you cheddar.
New Thread.
marymccurnin @ 299
Gouda have someone say that.
A very important addendum, via this comment by Peter G over at talkleft.com:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/9/26/21959/1888
I’m in EPU land here but wanted to add my thanks to Mr. Mayfield and his lawyer for helping roll back an illegal aspect of the Patriot Act.
Mr. Mayfield certainly had to endure an awful burden to “obtain” his standing’ in a court of law and be in the position to challenge an unconstitutional provision of the Patriot Act.
MY QUESTION: Why there is not some mechanism in place to protect the American public from bad law? Is it just tradition that the courts wait for a victim of a bad law before ‘removing from the store shelves’? (We are a capitalist society ;-)
Why cannot it be more like parents’ reactions to lead contaminated toys from China–that is, Horror that any person was put in foreseeable danger by a bad product?
Why cannot the courts step in when they see a bad product before anyone is hurt?
I followed the link at the top of this post to the article about the Magna Carta up for auction.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..530944.ece
The version to be sold has been in Washington, DC at The National Archives on loan from Ross Perot (Perot Foundation) It was displayed beside our Declaration of Independence and US Constitution, as one of the documents our Founding Fathers referenced.
The article (above) mentions that ‘billionaire’ Ross Perot bought the document for a song in 1984 at the cheap price of $1.5 million. Why not permanently donate the Magna Carta to the government (well maybe not while Cheney is still around) and take a tax writeoff? Certainly a billionnaire can afford the loss for the sake of the country, especially one who once ran for Office of the President of the US.
Hugh @ 234
Hilarious, LMAO, ROFLOL amazing!
Now, if someone could only take those statements and turn it into a joke. Heh.
raven @ 93
LOL Exactly Raven! I’m reading her comment this morning to me and I’m thinking, “Uh yeah, okay”. Hysterical!
Dmac would make a great president! She just keeps going and going and going! Nothing keeps her from doing what is right. :-)
LS @ 5
You bet we will!
pow wow @ 302
Oooh, thanks! Will mention this.
I have three words for the people celebrating this ruling: OVERTURNED ON APPEAL. End of story.
The problem is that once you ignore the “icky” parts of the Constitution (ooo! GUNS!! SCAREY!!!) you kinda lose the moral high ground that would otherwise enable you to launch an indignant assault when the less-icky parts are ignored. It’s hypocritical for the ACLU to whine about warrantless searches when they have done nothing to stand up for other parts of the Constitution.
An un-Constitutional law is simply un-Constitutional, whether or not the thugs in black robes back the thugs in jackboots. The Constitution was not written as a clever challenge to modern lawmakers, a mindteaser to keep them occupied while they try to figure out new and better ways to do end-runs around the original intent. It was written as an absolute limit on the powers of a central government, and was written by men, most of whom were intellectually and morally far superior to many running around today, who knew full well the power of individual liberty and the evil of centralized power.
It was the document that CREATED the government and GRANTED certain LIMITED powers to the government, while GUARANTEEING rights to the people via the Bill of Rights. It was a package deal. “We’ll let you have this, and ONLY this, but you can’t infringe on that. Deal? Deal!”
Therefore it logically follows that no Bill of Rights or a damaged Bill of Rights means NO CONSTITUTION and guess what? No Constitution means NO GOVERNMENT.
It’s gotta be Ron Paul in 2008 or America is going to continue to slide down the drain…only more quickly.