Senate Democrats all claim there is nothing they can accomplish unless they have 60 votes in favor, or in the case of a threatened veto, 67 votes.
So if the Senate gets 56 votes for the Webb Amendment or to restore habeas corpus -- strong majorities -- these worthwhile measures "fail." Or as the media report it, the Democrats fail or the Senate fails, but it's seldom because the Republicans obstructed the measure. And Senate Democrats claim they can't do anything about it.
Tuesday night, however, in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi insisted the Senate's 60 vote rule also restricts what the House can accomplish. The Senate's self-imposed gridlock is now the House's excuse as well.
I heard the same excuse from Charlie Rangel during the SCHIP floor debate, when he claimed that many House members wanted the bill to cover children of legal immigrants and pregnant women (as many states do now), but the Senate Republicans demanded that coverage be removed or the bill would never get 60 Senate votes. "This is the Senate Republican's bill," he said.
I understand Rangel's point. But I am surprised that House Democrats see themselves as essentially helpless against this blackmail, with no power to influence the outcome.
Under the Constitution, all appropriation bills must arise in the House. No monies can be appropriated for any federally funded project -- including earmarks or "pork" -- unless authorized by bills initiated or approved in the Democratic House. That's power. But I haven't heard a peep from Republicans complaining about their pet projects being held up.
The White House and the Republican Senators are playing extreme, no-holds barred hardball in Congress, and their goal is transparent. They mean to obstruct anything worthwhile from emerging from the Democratic Congress -- unless it's something incredibly popular like SCHIP with lots of Republican governors counting on it back home -- and to prevent anything that would check the excesses of this deeply unpopular President. And to get their way, at critical moments the Administration has lied about nonexistent threats, intimidating the Congress into passing outrageous, unconstititutional legislation. That's their game.
The same thing is happening again with proposals to make permanent changes to FISA. Once again, the Administration, abetted by Democrats, is making outrageous demands -- immunity for its own criminal authorizations and for the telecoms who complied -- plus expansions of their warrantless powers -- the permanent gutting of FISA and independent oversight. But Democrats are not demanding information about the actual surveillance programs, and they're still relying on closed sessions with DNI McConnell, who has already lied to them about how necessary the changes are.
The progressive community has been pleading with the Democratic leadership to stand up to this thuggery and to take seriously the mandate they were given last November. We're not asking Democrats to become thugs; we're asking them to stop allowing themselves -- and the American people -- to be mugged. Our reward has been too many Democrats voting to condemn MoveOn's ad, thus indirectly mugging their own party members.
Given this abysmal behavior, no one should be surprised when the once faithful respond by withholding money from their Senate/Congressional campaign committees. Progressives are urging everyone to channel their contributions away from those who betray them, to those who stand up and fight back.
Neither Nancy Pelosi nor Harry Reid has explained why the Democratic leadership cannot use the power of the majority to more carefully control what does and does not emerge from the House and Senate. Voting for SCHIP is relatively easy, but what will they do on issues that require more political courage and arm twisting, like the Lieberman-Kyl Iran war resolution [too late!] or more discipline in saying no to gutting FISA or demanding honest facts and justification? Where/what is their game?
There are things Democrats want that Republicans won't give them. But there must be things the Republicans and this President want that don't force Democrats to risk "not supporting the troops." Mark them, and start saying no, until they start saying yes. And if that's not possible, the leadership needs to explain why or risk losing our help. We've had enough excuses.
Photo: AP/Dennis Cook
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zed
Well good morning all!
The DCCC sent me a poll the other day. I happily filled it out. Then I included a note explaining that while I would continue to support individual races, the DCCC will not see one red cent from ME until they show they can earn it.
Two great posts this morning Scarecrow - thanks!
Anyone want a slighly
soiledused Pelosi 2007 bumper sticker?Yes! I don’t understand why it was okay for the Rethugs in the majority to threaten to use the “nuclear option” of banning the filibuster, but the Dems can’t even make them do a real one. And why don’t they make them vote over and over on funding the war and CHIP (as Republican Grassley suggested)? They keep saying the same feeble things and wondering why we won’t accept it. Then, they act like we are unreasonable.
The magic words. Call your congresscritter and say NO MONEY FOR YOU.
This gets their attention.
Ahhhhhhh, the power of the purse. The netroots knows how to use it. It is time to teach our spineless ones to use it too.
I’m so sick of Bush saying that the Democrats are wasting his time sending him bills that he is forced to veto. Why don’t they start attaching war spending to what they want? That’s what the asshole Republicans did when they were running the show.
Republicans want immunity from prosecution.
It doesn’t matter what the subject is — FISA, Blackwater, Katrina, Abramoff, VECO (hi, ET!), National Security Letters, warranteless wiretapping, etc. — it all comes down to one thing: immunity.
OTOH, Accountability scares them to death. I say let’s give it to them. By the truckload.
i’ve come to the conclusion that the dem leadership doesn’t really believe this. it’s kabuki. it’s a story they tell us, in an attempt to manipulate us into putting our energies into electing more dems instead of the issues that motivate us.
please - someone tell why i’m wrong to think this.
One would hope that the D’s took notice of yesterday’s ruling that parts of the FISA law, as amended by the Patriot Act, are unconstitutional and illegal.
So the question then becomes - “well gee, do I vote for retroactive immunity for acts which have been adjudicated to be illegal?”
seems like a no-brainer to me - but then I stop to realize that what we’re looking at is, unfortunately, a Congress full of “no-brainers”, on both sides of the aisles.
jayt — Twisted martini was looking for you earlier.
When are the Dem’s in the Senate gonna actually make the Repugs follow thru on a fillibuster?
I didn’t know that a threat was as good as the action.
C’mon Dems, if they want to fillibust, make them fillibust!
Make the old guard work 24 hours a day to thwart progress. They won’t last a day. They just want to throw threats around.
Stop being pwn3d.
jayt, Twisted left you a message last thread
jayt, twisted’s looking for you.
Hoyer and Emmanuel are pressuring the House Dems to keep the war going.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/27/8541/87505
“We don’t have the votes” is the big lie that if it keeps being repeated beomes common and accepted “knowledge.”
lot of folks are starting to say hey Democratic Party…a little respect please
the local labor council has withdrawn all financial support from the Democrats for screwing them over
http://www.cantonrep.com/index.....tegoryID=0
The Democrats don’t want to fight. You approve funding to bring the troops home, the President doesn’t get anything for war with Iraq.
The President vetoes it then he is the one cutting funds for the troops.
We are not powerless the Democrats are spreading this rummor around that we are we need to challenge them publicly maybe a Democratic Presidential candidate can run with this issue.
It would be a great way to get Outsider from Washington status.
The Democrapic excuse is bogus. Their whining about needing 60 votes is BOGUS! They do NOT need 60 votes, they simply agree to go by that “rule” because they don’t WANT the votes to pass. Occam’s Razor folks.
The Democraps are lying to you. Pelosi is prevaricating and tap dancing around her immoral positions and her ineffectual “leadership”.
I’m not going to help them get their “60 votes” in 2008. Period. They keep telling us to fuck off so I’m telling them, come vote time (and have been telling them consistently come donation-begging time) to FUCK OFF YOURSELF!
The Democraps don’t deserve to win anything. They do not intend to change ANYTHING except minor things around the margins. The EASY shit. No thanks losers. I don’t vote for cowards and criminals - I don’t care what letter is next to their name.
They need to take a lesson from the republican play book and CHANGE THE RULE. That’s what the republicans did for the last 12 and a half years. Change the rule. Make it a simple majority to pass legislation, AND USE the so-called “Nuclear Option” and do away with the filibuster! Play by the republican rules: “The end justifies the means!”
And stop this ridiculous “Bipartisan” BS. The republicans are 100 percent Partisan all of the time. It’s time for Democrats to be the same. And voters need to get rid of every single “Blue Dog Republican” on the Democratic side. These are people who are not true democrats. They got elected as democrats and then vote with republicans most of the time. Throw them all out.
Oh and another thing…where was this superpower when the Democraps were in the minority? Why is it the GOP CONSISTENTLY passed bills without 60 votes?
They Democraps are LYING!
isn’t it possible that they are controlling exactly what does emerge from the house and senate? that blaming it on the republicans is just a convenient attempt to avoid responsibility and accountability by scapegoating the republicans (not that they don’t deserve it)?
i think the early august FISA vote was a boat load of evidence that this is what is happening. the leadership is making these decisions - it’s not a matter of lack of discipline.
I am really tired of the “we don’t have the votes” mantra. Did anyone catch Gravel during the debate last night? His comment was essentially; if you do not have the votes, you go get the votes and get them by twisting their necks. Simple end of subject. It makes the Dems look weak and incompetent.
Ed*ard Teller @ 5
The bloom is off that rose, isn’t it.
Smgumby @ 3
I got that poll/donation soliciitation as well. I specifically said “not one red cent”. I told them I would ONLY contribute through groups like Blue America and Move On, so they better let them have a seat at the table!
I think the message we have to send is via money. Money only goes through progressive PACS. If you contribute directly to the candidate–you protest doesn’t register. The candidate and the DINOs just think TAHT canidate happens to be popular.
If you give the money ONLY through progressive PACS–the candidates and the leadership MUST be repsonive to us.
I cannot urge this more strongly.
EVERY written or telephone soliciaition you get, you must repsond with: “I would have contributed X–but I’m gonna do so through XYZ Progeressive PAC, so that you will get the message”
Absolutely correct. The bills that pass are passing PRECISELY because Reid, Pelosi, and the Democraps support them all AS A PARTY. There is no unwillingness here, it is all fully conscious and fully intended as is. You are being betrayed and lied to but refuse to accept reality as it is, instead substituting in some “conspiracy” or force that makes the Democraps do things against their wishes and will. BULLSHIT!
This is what Jim Garrison said in his Playboy interview in 1967:
“I guess I’ve developed a somewhat conservative attitude–in the traditional libertarian sense of conservatism, as opposed to the thumbscrews-and-rack conservatism of the paramilitary right–particularly in regard to the importance of the individual as opposed to the state and the individual’s own responsibilities to humanity. I don’t think I’ve ever tried to formulate this into a coherent political, but at the root of my concern is the conviction that a human being is not a digit; he’s not a digit in regard to the state and he’s not a digit in the sense that he can ignore his fellow men and his obligations to society. I was with the artillery supporting the division that took Dachau. I arrived there the day after it was taken, when bulldozers were making pyramids of human bodies outside the camp. What I saw there haunted me ever since. Because the law is my profession, I’ve always wondered about the judges throughout Germany who sentenced men to jail for picking pockets when their own government was jerking gold from the teeth of men murdered in gas chambers. I’m concerned about all of this because it isn’t a German phenomenon. It can happen here, because there has been no change and there has been no progress and there has been no increase of understanding on the part of men for their fellow man. What worries me deeply, and I have seen it exemplified in this case, is that we in America are in great danger of slowly evolving into a proto-fascist state. It will be a different kind of fascist state from the one the Germans evolved; theirs grew out of depression and promised bread and work, while ours, curiously enough, seems to be emerging from prosperity. But in the final analysis, it’s based on power and on the inability to put human goals and human conscience above the dictates of the state. Its origins can be traced in the tremendous war machine we’ve built since 1945, the “military-industrial complex” that Eisenhower vainly warned us about, which now dominates every aspect of our life. The power of the states and Congress has gradually been abandoned to the Executive Department, because of war conditions, and we’ve seen the creation of an arrogant, swollen bureaucratic complex totally unfettered by the checks and balances of the Constitution. In a very real and terrifying sense, our Government is the CIA and the Pentagon, with Congress reduced to a debating society. Of course, you can’t spot this trend to fascism by casually looking around. You can’t look for such familiar signs as the swastika, because they won’t be there. We won’t build Dachaus and Auschwitzes; the clever manipulation of the mass media is creating a concentration camp of the mind that promises to be far more effective in keeping the populace in line. We’re not going to wake up one morning and suddenly find ourselves in gray uniforms goose-stepping off to work. But this isn’t the test. The test is: What happens to the individual who dissents? In Nazi Germany, he was physically destroyed; here, the process is more subtle, but the end results can be the same. I’ve learned enough about the machinations of the CIA in the past year to know that this is no longer the dreamworld America I once believed in. The imperatives of the population explosion, which almost inevitably will lessen our belief in the sanctity of the individual human life, combined with the awesome power of the CIA and the defense establishment, seem destined to seal the fate of the America I knew as a child and bring us into a new Orwellian world where the citizen exists for the state and where raw power justifies any and every immoral act. I’ve always had a kind of knee-jerk trust in my Government’s basic integrity, whatever political blunders it may make. But I’ve come to realize that in Washington, deceiving and manipulating the public are viewed by some as the natural prerogatives of office. Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I’m afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security.”
Anyone here disagree with what he said? Were his predictions wrong? As Faulkner wrote, “The past is never dead. It isn’t even past.”
If the Democrats say they can’t end the war well we have to show them the cost of that postion.
It may be time to draw a line in the sand and blog against every Democrat who wants to leave troops in Iraq.
If the Democratic Frontrunners stumble in the polls because we keep hammering on this issue then we should see Congress suddenly find the power to end the war.
Sometimes true love is walking away before that person destroys herself, its the last option when all the others fail.
oddball @ 7
If we with hold $ altgether, Republicans outspend Dems and win seats. That’s cutting off hte nose to spite the face.
Instead say “I made a contribution earmarked for you over at [insert name of Progressive PAC here], you will have to go the them to rettrieve it. But the money will be there waiting for you.”
Smgumby @ 3
I got that survey a week ago. I still have not filled it out yet. Needless to say I will be adding a note as well. They need to lead, not follow.
selise @ 10
I think you are spot on.
What the Demogratic ’strategists’ fail to realize is that an overridden popular vote is a win. Battleground districts can be decided on single issues which are important to the electorqate.
The Republicans realized this and got pinheads like Jean Schmidt elected by people who fear gays and brown skin. Democrats can use the same single issue focus to sway those who fear endless war in the Middle East or the life sucked out of local economies by insurance companies and predatory lenders.
Gee, maybe the problem is there is no penalty for telling us to STFU, whereas there are unpleasant consequences for not going along with anything the Rethugs want. The consequences range from namecalling to, well, more namecalling. Tragically, someone may believe the namecalling, and then some poor, innocent Dems will have to live with some unjust besmirching forever. Like Max Cleland. Like John Kerry. Like Bill Clinton and Al Gore. Whatever can we do?
How about we make a Contract with the candidates cash my check end the war. Vote for war give me my money back!
Praedor Atrebates @ 21
i think most of them are (not all). the question is why?
1) do they think it’s in their best interest to lie to us? if this is the case, we need to change the calculation so that they think telling the truth is in their best interest.
2) are they being blackmailed? hard to see… but not immpossible.
3) is there a cultural divide bigger than the grand canyon separating us?
4) are they bought off my the big money (esp the MIC)?
5) are they stupid?
6) there must be more possibilities… but i just can’t see them at the moment.
Democrats loves them some excuses, don’t they?
I’m convinced corporate Democrats want to maintain a narrow majority in 2008, so they can keep their chairs AND their sorry-assed excuses.
Feh!
OK so why did Hillary cave in on MSNBC? Her husbands seems to think differently about Rethug outrage.
looseheadprop @ 29
You know the only two things that Congresscritters recognize is power and money. And part of that power is tossing incumbents out of office, whether by primary or letting them lose. I know letting them lose is harsh(and kinda of like burning the house down to save it), but sometimes that is the only way they’ll learn. We have to exercise whatever power we have in any way possible.
selise @ 35
good list, selise
.
I just don’t understand it, which is just so frustrating. What happened?
We might be better off to do what they’ve asked, just STFU. Not forever, just for a few weeks. A nice strike by the progressive side might put a wrench into the works. No money, no talking, no support, no nothing. Think they’d begin to appreciate what they’ve got, or they’d like it too much?
selise @ 35
What about calling for an up or down vote? Why can’t Dems go on TV and say that America’s children deserve an up or down vote?
Why not go for the nuclear option? Why not abolish the filibuster?
Good morning, all!
looseheadprop @ 29
That’s the thing. I sympathize with the anger but I do NOT want to see blue dogs replaced with Republicans! Replace them with progressives. I think also that with enough progressives the blue dogs may swing around on at least some issues.
But if the blue dogs are replaced with Republicans we cannot possibly be any better off and we will almost certainly be worse off…
Alice @ 42
Why not, dare we say it, show some effin’ leadership?????????????????
looseheadprop @ 31
well, if that is the case, then i think we need to be very loud in our rejection of their tactics. no lipstick, no making excuses for them… make it absolutely fucking clear that we see through their kabuki.
don’t let them get away with it. make sure they know their tactic is failing… make them find another way to win - by stopping the kabuki and instead taking the actions the country needs.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 30
I shitcanned it. I am not a Democrap any longer and I wont have anything to do with their bullshit, false polls. Really, have you actually ever looked at these “polls” they send out? They are ONLY disguised (poorly) whines for more money. They poll questions are always very limited, very circumscribed, poorly thought out, and very very push-poll. THEY ARE NOT POLLS and they do not give a flying fuck what anyone marks on those polls. They shitcan the polls (like I did) and only pay attention to the donation.
I am not a Democrap any longer. I was a lifelong Democrap with my very first vote when I turned 18 going to Jimmy Carter vs Ronald Raygun. For years I voted straight ticket. Simple as that. Never again.
I am voting ENTIRELY 3rd party or simply not voting when there is no acceptable 3rd party candidate. I will not be voting in the primaries (largely because by the time they get around to my state they are bogus with the candidates already selected). The Dems started losing me in earnest with Alito. They shut and barred the door from my EVER coming back with their war voting and FISA caving. Sons of bitches and cowards (and criminals) every single one of them.
Ann in AZ @ 40
*snort* I dunno. I’m almost afraid to find out o.O
mui @ 37
It’s a pattern; Hillary plays it safe; Bill, speaking only for himself, gets down in the dirt.
Why aren’t the Democrats cutting funds to GOP states to pressure the GOP for votes? Why aren’t we closing military bases in GOP districts? Why is Star Wars still getting funds?
Bush wants to cut or privatise all our programs but the Democrats are not touching GOP programs at all!
Force Bush to pay for 1/2 the cost os his war during his term! Tax the rich tax the oil companies!
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 30
I wrote them a note last summer - 2006 - similar to what SMGumby just wrote. Nobody wrote back. I still get their stuff; they still don’t get my $…
Great post as usual.
I’m at a loss.
Imagine having a bipartisan attorney, always looking to find consensus with the other side, missing the details, giving away the store. They’d be sued for malpractice.
I’m looking for my representatives to be advocates, leading the debate, fighting for our interests, reading the fine print. I dont think thats too much too ask.
Instead, they want to be over-ambitious, commission based salespeople, cutting the margin to break-even or loss, just to smile at you saying “at least I got the deal”.
They can’t be this clueless.
I feel horrible every time I end up tearing down “our side”, thinking unity may be key to 2008, then those asshats pull this kinda nonsense week after week.
Next week, lets have a vote to condemn FDL.
BTW, The 60k MoveOn spent on that ad had one heck of a return, didnt it? Thats what got everyone’s knickers in a bunch. Can’t wait for the next one.
IrishJim @ 23
Gravel said that? Seriously? As wacky as he might be, he is speaking truth to power, and he is right.
things come undone @ 28
What a difference a word makes.
They WON’T end the war.
Maybe we don’t need to replace all the bad ones, just make some examples?
Or maybe we need change in leadersheep? Maybe Reid, Schumer, Emmaual, and Hoyer need to be replaced. Any ambitious Dems who want their jobs? Murtha came up short, does he want to make another run for it? Is there someone else who wants to challenger Hoyer?
I like Pelosi, but I think the rest of our leaders are a lost cause.
looseheadprop @ 41
i buy that.
helps to try to understand what is happening in order to make rational decisions about what to do about it.
Alice @ 54
Hoyer isn’t going anywhere. Why do you think he beat Murtha? He has lots of Dems in his pocket. $$$$$. What do you think Congresscritters have PAC’s for? Especially those in leadership positions.
One of the things we’re doing that I think will pay off best in the long run is putting up our own candidates — I’m particularly seeing this here with Shepton’s challenge to Miller in CA-42 — this is repeating in a number of places in California. This is something I can fully get behind, and I think it’s going to become bigger and bigger. It doesn’t solve the problem we have now of the current elected officials giving away the store, but we can’t lose sight of this groundwork, IMO.
Kinky Friedman on Morning Joe earlier said ya gotta work thru the system. And he hinted he’s looking at running again in Tex…as a Dem? That was my take on it.
Maybe he’s joining the Webb meme….
Next week, lets have a vote to condemn FDL.
Can we just do it this week? I’d like to get it done and have next week clear. :)
If Republicans won’t vote for healthcare then we should vote to end Government healthcare for all politicans.
If the Government won’t fully fund Social Security then Congress and President should loose their pensions.
If Congress won’t vote the minium wage higher than Congress and the President should get paid the median wage in their home state, not the median income.
I shitcanned it. I am not a Democrap any longer and I wont have anything to do with their bullshit, false polls. Really, have you actually ever looked at these “polls” they send out? They are ONLY disguised (poorly) whines for more money. They poll questions are always very limited, very circumscribed, poorly thought out, and very very push-poll. THEY ARE NOT POLLS and they do not give a flying fuck what anyone marks on those polls. They shitcan the polls (like I did) and only pay attention to the donation.
Those polls are so phony and manipulative. I have been thinking that instead of contacting our respective Reps. we should be contacting the DSCC and DCCC and make our displeasure clear. I would love to crash their server.
Webb: this is Cheney’s fondest pipe dream.
And uh Lieberman’s too. You know I brought this up to some Dems in CT. The direction HoJoe was going on Iran was pretty clear back then. None of those sitting on the fence believed me.
Authorizing anything slightly military for Chimpy is completely dangerous.
I’d love to see everyone runnning for prez, grilled during the Dem debates on this.
peanutbutter @ 57
Agreed. And I’m lookin’ at you, Collin Peterson, Blue Dog, MN.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 38
Ah, but you see that is the beauty of the method I am proposing. Don’t let them lose, just make them crawl to progressives in order to win.
They have been crawling to those who do not agree withthe base for years, and the base just keeps forking over the money like the good little ATMs we have been trained to be.
We should act like out money needs to be earned. You perfomeanc e base?
Sometimes a village or house is so infested with a pathogenic virus or bacterial spores (say anthrax) that you are, overall and in the long run, better off to burn the entire sucker down. You need to sterilize that sucker or it will keep killing and passing pathogen around, doing far more damage overall than if you just suck up the immediate cost of burning the place down.
This IS the case with the Democrap party. They are so infested with pathogenic spores that there is no way to decontaminate it piecemeal. The entire shebang needs to be burned down, sprayed with 10% bleach solution, and left alone for a while to make it safe for people to vote for them again.
Or if you prefer, the Democrapic party is heavily infiltrated with metastatic cancer. You cannot simply excise a tumor here and there and call it good, you have to hit the entire body with ionizing radiation and chemotherapeutic drugs to have ANY hope of rooting out the wide-spread bad cells.
http://www.politico.com/news/s...../6048.html
“We don’t have the votes” is simply a lie. And the Congressional Dems who don’t speak up against this lie are lying too — by omission — by enabling and fostering the growth of the lie. By sitting on their asses and winking at it.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 56
Just because he beat off one challenge doesn’t mean he can’t be beat. What about John Lewis, does he want Hoyer’s job?
Alice @ 54
i used to too… but (to break my own rule) the best spin i can put on it is that pelosi provides the cover while hoyer et al fuck us over.
in either case (she mostly agrees with them, or she doesn’t but she provides the cover) she’s failing us and the country.
Ann in AZ @ 40
Anne, I have always believed the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Is till do.
If we STFU, they’d be in heaven.
things come undone @ 60
Jackpot! They must feel the pain too.
There is no discipline in either house by the Democrats. Neither leader will bench a player who cannot or will not follow the game play. What happens to coaches who cannot control their team? They are canned. If they have a contract? Find the money and fire them. As activists and contributors we are enabling this behavior and assuring failure. They also need to know that failure after a valiant effort is honorable and to be admired.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 52
He said that almost verbatim. He also had a fiery comment about immigration that garnered a huge round of applause. He basically said that he was ashamed to be an American because we are building a fence along our southern border and that is not the America he fought for. I really like the comments made by Gravel and wish he stood a chance.
Scarecrow @ 59
jane could create an endowment with the donations that would bring.
Ann in AZ @ 40
I think Jane would have a stroke.
selise @ 45
I’m telling you. Move ALL the money into the hands of progressive PACs like Blue America and watch how they turn on a dime!
Steny Hoyer is old school politics
he has spent his whole life in the beltway
he is basically a clerk -shuffling money and paper —not a leader. Democrats have a right to something better. I think Speaker Pelosi made a couple of big errors –allowing Hoyer to retain any power and not appointing Jane Harmon.
Praedor Atrebates @ 65 -
agree with your analysis, but not with your prescription.
I’m already on strike. I’m fasting. I skipped breakfast. Maybe lunch too.
Prairie Sunshine @ 58
Kinky Freidman - OMG. What a guy.
looseheadprop @ 75
agreed.
but, since i don’t have lots of money to donate, i’m looking for other things i can do too.
Simple answer:
“We don’t have enough votes” is the Democratic election platform for 2008!
Alice @ 67
You mean Hoyer wasn’t campaigning for Dems this summer out of the good of his heart? I’m shocked I tell you. Simply shocked.
Praedor Atrebates @ 46
The Republican Party thanks you.
looseheadprop @ 29
Some interesting information came out in the Anchorage trial of ex-GOP state legislator Pete Kott. It appears that if you take the oil service company VECO out of the political contributions scene over the past few years here, Democrats raised more money for their candidates in-state than did the GOP. VECO’s been taken out of the scene for good now, so there may be a dramatic change coming in the political landscape up here, going beyond the high number of convictions and resignations of GOP legislators.
All legal fees fines etc should be indexed to the income and assets reported in your last tax return so imagine you make $20,000 a year and get a $50 dollar speeding ticket. Divide 20,000 by 50 you get 400 Now suppose your a Bush 100,000,000 in assets divide that by 400 and you get an income proportionte speeding ticket of $250,000.
We could have Healthcare paid for everybody then!
katherine Graham Cracker @ 76
And Rahm Emanuel is like this backroom creature. How can his constituents stand him? He can’t be very responsve.
ET at 84 — Now THAT is fascinating.
i used to too… but (to break my own rule) the best spin i can put on it is that pelosi provides the cover while hoyer et al fuck us over.
Hoyer challanged Pelosi for majority leader and she won. Later Pelosi tried to replace Hoyer with Murtha. I don’t think she is eager to do him any favors. But Hoyer has very powerful backers with MBNA and A*PAC.
But Hoyer and Emmanual need to go, along with Reid and Schumer.
Alice @ 61
Deliberately crashing someone’s server is a crime. Please don’t advocate that here.
looseheadprop @ 75
I only contribute to the Constitutional Wing of the Democratic party.
As I’ve said before, we seem to have about 30 in the Senate willing to do the right thing on hard issues that require courage, and about 49 on easy issues like voting for motherhood, apple pie, and SCHIP.
We have to grow both numbers and work to create conditions where even the weakest feel safe to do the right thing. “The
poorweak are always with us.”Have to go, I’ve used up my eyepower for the morning. This detached retina thing is a real PIA when you love to read, but I wanted to say thanks to Scarecrow again for such pinpoint attention to issues and for such stimulating discussion to all of you.
Scarecrow selise, I’m going into the BIG City today to volunteer for wbur, think it will swallow this little girl from the shore? I’m gonna take the subway and everything!!
Of course the Sox are at home, in Kenmore Square where the station is, so it should be kind of a show as well.
have a great day, all
ramjet @ 81
And with your performance thus far (Democraps) you aren’t going to get enough to sustain your current majority in 2008, let alone gain a useless (to you) greater cave-in majority!
dave @ 83
so true
ramjet @ 81
Or as Hillary would put it: “It’s a hyperthetical.”
From his website:
Can it be true?
If you don’t want to give money to the D-Trip or DSCC, try donating to DFA or directly to candidates, or to outfits like www.PublicCampaign.org — the people who are working to make politics affordable again.
It’s no surprise that corporate interests control DC when they’re the only ones that can foot the bill for the campaigns nowadays. When it costs $5 million for even a run-of-the-mill congressional campaign (and with most of the money going for radio and TV ads), it’s not surprising that the money men dictate what gets done.
selise @ 80
We need to educate all the donors. All those small daonations add up.
Rahm Emmanual rose to power as the king of opposition research…send him back there..that is something he is good at
Senate Endorses Plan to Divide Iraq
Showing rare bipartisan consensus over war policy, the Senate overwhelmingly endorsed a political settlement for Iraq that would divide the country into three semi-autonomous regions.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01506.html
zennurse @ 91
Ooh Zennurse. My eyes aren’t so great either. Do you have a text to speech program. It helps sometimes.
Ed*ard Teller @ 84 -
wow.
things come undone @ 28
Many comments take the position that the power of donation will get the Dems to see the light. It’s touching when someone says he or she informed whoever they will receive no more funds from him or her. Doesn’t seem to have worked.
Harry Reid’s real sin, among many, is that he hasn’t required the Repubs to filabuster, to stand stating their foolish positions 24/7 for as long as they care to. Instead the cloture vote gets counted and that is that.
The problem won’t get solved, if it is to get solved, unless we create a viable alternative to the Dems. What it will be or what form it will take I have no idea. True love may mean walking away, but where do you walk to?
dave @ 83
P.A. That plays right into republican’s hands
It’s not a question of being inside the Beltway, our power elite inhabits a closed feedback loop.
“Immunity for its own criminal authorizations”. If “retroactive immunity” is passed for the wiretapping and data-mining that has all ready taken place and “allegedly” undermined National Security this will mean NO ACCOUNTABILITY ONCE
AGAIN.
Companies under investigation like Comverse Insofys and Amdocs will not be held accountable if “retroactive immunity” is passed.
These videos that were forced off of Fox News by the organization Camera are really worth the watch.
Wiretapping Comvers Infosys/ Amdocs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aUzuzs2oC0
Spying
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;search=
Are some Democrats trying to protect
Rep Jane Harman
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c.....-appr.html
IrishJim @ 72
I like that we’re still able to hear what he has to say.
dave @ 83
So? I will NOT vote for more war (the Democraps) for more gutting of civil liberties (FISA and all the powers of the “unitary executive” that the Democraps have singularly refused to challenge) for more imperialism and more corporatism. It is a LIE to think you must go with the “lessor of two evils”. No, I wont go with the lessor evil, I wont go for the evil at all. Period. I have standards and ethics and will NOT trade them in for lying politicians. They need to BLEED. It is better, for the country and the world, if the Democraps bleed heavily NOW and learn rather than screw you and me over AGAIN and STILL GET REWARDED FOR IT! You will vote for them, apparently, NO MATTER WHAT.
Tell me, what will it take, what act on the Democrap’s part, is bad enough that you will NOT support them any longer? Is there ANYTHING they could do or fail to do that will actually earn them a consequence from you?
Didn’t think so. Keep giving them your money and your love…and you will keep getting exactly what you deserve. That is the way it works.
things come undone @ 85
I like your idea, but you may want to double check your math. You have some misplaced decimal points..
This is a LHP quality typo!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 87
It is. Sadly, the Democratic Party was in the grip of a Rahm Emanuel, oops - Dick Cheney clone up until the end of July. Thank God, he left the post to run against Diane Benson in the Democratic primary to determine whjo gets a crack against Don Young - if Young is still around much longer. The party’s now under the more liberal leadership of Patti Higgins, who appears to be more aggressive about projecting a progressive image in a quickly changing political environment.
What I see is that we need to do two things to the DC crowd…
1. Lots of sunshine in DC
2. Cut off the Kool-aid supply
Now I am all for donating lots of Arizona sunshine, I am sure that Anne in AZ and others will gladly give up some too and have it shipped right over.
So the last part is finding that F**kn kool-aid pipeline and asking our guys from the Iraq Vets group to take it out.
What’s the “abetted by Democrats” link supposed to be? I clicked it but it’s some sort of advertisement for gay marriage. There must have been a mistake in the URL.
Ed Kunin @ 102
I am flabbergasted by the contributions Hillary and Obama receive. Where are people’s critical faculties when they announce that they support Obama. (Oprah?) How often does he skip an important vote? What he says on nukes? Hillary’s oops I did it again. and the really grotesque contributions of Murdoch and co.?
Hillary and Obama’s campaigns are all just one big glamour.
looseheadprop @ 102
No, when you vote for the whiney-weak-cowardly wing of the Rethuglican party (the Democrapic party) you play into the Rethuglican hands.
I will not reward cowardice, criminality, immorality, unethical behavior, and lying. Wont do it under any circumstances. The lessor of two evils is no evil at all.
looseheadprop - my mistake, I should have said Slashdot them.
looseheadprop @ 108
I’m unsure myself! My math I admit is bad. I’m hopping the income proportiante part was right thats my main point.
Scarecrow @ 90
i like your prescription.
but i think the problem is a bit worse than you’ve described. i’d say it’s more like 49 votes on the easy stuff, 30 on the moderate and maybe one on the hard (where hard = patriot act, condemning moveon, s.amdt.2073,…)
in the house we have maybe a handful on the hard votes (h.con.r.21, h.r.1400).
but whatever the numbers, i’m behind your prescription - grow the numers and create the cultural conditions so that doing the right thing is easy and not a loney activity.
ET, did you get the word that we have another donor for Benson.
ramjet @ 81
You know, there really is something to that.
It’s actually a very good plan to increase dem numbers, if they actually were making more people like them. Instead a believe a vast majority pity them for being so pathetic.
Politicians are a craven bunch, the only reason Iraq continues is for political party posturing. Been that way for 2 years now. Will continue for at least 2 more, as neither side wants it to end.
The Democrats are opening the door for Independent candidates.
Ed Kunin @ 101
With holding money altogether only benenfits republicans. Dnating directly to candidates only makes it look like THAT candidate is popular, not that you are protesting a given party wide problem.
DOnating ONLY through Pacs that support your views gives the power of your money wehre it belongs.
Iforming the DCCC and similar organizations as well as indivisual candiadtes that you will only donate to them through a progressive PAC–gets the power into the hands of progressive.
How can I make this clearer?
mui @ 100
NO, I have never had a problem before, but will be unable to do much reading for about 8 weeks, (work only). Thanks for the suggestion, it sounds really helpful and I’ll look into it. Audible has newspapers and magazines so I can podcast, but I love reading.
Thanks so much.
RockPaperScizzors @ 98
I heard Brownback on this subject yeaterday and he talked about relocating huge numbers of people as if he were moving cans. Not one ounce of empathy, not one thought of what that would be like, to be forcibly re-moved.
I think they need to pick one “Unanimous Consent Tiger” in both houses, and stick with it. Then all the sudden, Republicans “don’t have enough votes.”
Voila, meme reversed, and that’s where donations should flow; to the UC Tigers.
selise @ 100
Gotta tell you, selise, the changes are happening so fast, I could only sleep three hours last night. Busy following up many leads, and setting up a blackboard site at my school.
Ted Stevens and Don Young have both sprung HUGE leaks…. and Young is spending hundreds of thousands per month on legal fees. I doubt his fundraising is going particularly well, right now. The Governor is testing the waters for a run against St. Toobz in the GOP primary.
Ed Kunin @ 102
Ed, creating a viable alternative to the Dems would take a lot of time, effort, and money. And most of the Green Party’s money comes from Republicans who want them to be just strong enough to peel off votes from the Democrats, not strong enough to actually win elections.
Again: Building a political party takes time, patience, and money. Ask yourself if you’re willing to put in the equivalent of a full-time job, along with a sizable amount of cash, for the next twenty years to make this happen.
Why do that when it’s easier to reform from within? It still will take a while, but at least we can keep our day jobs while we do it, and we’re getting results, slowly but surely. (Look at the local races: We’re building from the ground up.)
unconventional conventionist @ 123
Good morning all. What’s a “Unanimous Consent Tiger”?
Looseheadprops what is the number you get? I’m still coming up with the same number when I check my math? I admit comparing assets to income might get the GOP angry but money is money the fees I feel should be proportionate to the total assets held or income in a year.
looseheadprop @ 103
i think it depends on where one lives. PA - whatever you do, i hope you will continue to vote (even if for a write in candidate) - at least that way you register your displeasure. it does seem that candidates completely ignore the non-voting among us. don’t let them ignore you.
Diane Rehm show focused on the auto industry and unions.
http://wamu.org/programs/dr/
From the Dem debate last night:
zennurse @ 121
No problem. I’m sorry for the retina problems. I always anticipate, since I’ve been extremely nearsighted, plus retina issues, since before the age of 10 that I should check out alternatives (text to speech etc.)as a kind of insurance and encourage others to do so as well. Hope you get better.
egregious @ 116
{{{{{egregious}}}} - I’ll mail you in a few minutes.
The entire country moves to the Left and the Dems in congress follow the industrial military complex money to the Right. You think you are going to disturb those in the country club with your threat to withhold your sweaty 20 bucks? $20.00 is what they tip the valet at the Halliburton congressional family picnic. Big Pharma and the rest of the Fabulous Fascist Five own the Dems.
Ed*ard Teller @ 124
ET. This is fanatastic!
things come undone @ 127
looseheadprop @ 120
I hear you loud and clear. I’m calling the DCCC and the DSCC today to tell me to take me off of their mailing list.
I will further inform them that all of my donations will now go directly to MoveOn, the progressive blogosphere and other legitimate progressive organizations.
It is important that everyone here calls the DSCC and the DCCC as well as your wayward Democratic representatives to let them know that you are cutting off their funding and routing it to an organization that you trust will do the right thing.
This is a good time to remind folks that switching your nickname is a good way to get yer butt banned here. Consider this a friendly — yet meaning it — reminder.
looseheadprop @ 120
just keep repeating it. we’re kind slow this morning. :)
looseheadprop @ 120
You are wrong. MoveOn represents a BUTTLOAD of money and the Democraps STILL overwhelmingly shat on them. They STILL think the country is made up of moderate/conservative GOPers! They do NOT listen to your PAC money, they laugh at it by voting to condemn it.
How can I make that fact clearer? Objective reality doesn’t seem to hold any sway…
looseheadprop @ 136
$250,000 is 1/4 of $100,000 not 1/400
TexBetsy @ 126
I didn’t explain very well. When the chair asks for Unanimous Consent, all it takes is one critter to say the 2 magic words; “I object.”
This then makes the Republicans do a filibuster that’s “out of the closet” shall we say.
On any money bill, which must originate in the House, the power of the purse would be held entirely by the Dems; and the Republicans forced to negoetiate.
Progressives aren’t the only ones with money. Multi-nationals have lots which they spread on both sides of the fence. In terms of risk-reward most elected Dems think they are better off chasing big bucks rather than small contributions. If money is power, maybe the progressives aren’t the biggest cat on the block and their love for Dems is doomed to be unrequited.
Praedor Atrebates @ 139
Give it time. They’ll catch on when they go back to MoveOn to beg for funding for the next electoral cycle and are told to talk to the hand.
Late to the party, but let me just say, “Great Post, Scarecrow”!!!
“Democratic Leaders” is an oxymoron.
This, from a politically astute friend of mine who is Republican, but hates the Iraq War and George Bush, and who is looking for someone to support next year….
She likes Obama, but was thoroughly disappointed in his his “showing” last night.
“Obama showed he has no balls to stand up to Hillary…”
This is the most disgusting group of wet noodle politicians I have seen in over 50 years of viewing politicians. They are all resigned to perpetual war, making campaign rhetoric to appease the 25% of the hard core Bushite’s..
I am very nauseous today.
njprogressive @ 145
indeed
$250,000 is 1/4 of $1,000,000…
Keep the “bridge to nowhere” for now though, if they need it to exile Ted Stevens to jail. Or just exile him.
PA, did you rememeber to take your meds this am? :)
Puesto @ 146
I thought Edwards handled himself very well last night.
I had no idea changing your nickname was a sin.
Sorry
If progressives were to focus all their energies (money, calls, etc.) on 1 or 2 bad dems each election, and thereby knock them off, progressives would increase their leverage…would be able to get reps like McNerney to sit up and take notice.
Spreading energies across a wide field of candidates may not be a good strategy for progressives.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 138
Hope you dont mean me, I changed a while back, but left notes to mods, etc.
unconventional conventionist @ 141
This is such agreat idea. The “pain” could be spread arounf by recruting (having the backof ) just one for each issue.
I still think it will be very hard to recruit such strong spined indiviaduals, but…..
zennurse @ 121
PS. I love to read too. But sometimes strain gets me staring at the ceiling, especially when I was a student. Project gutenberg.org plus text to speech is really a blessing.
One take on the Dem debate:
So McConnell is asking for “retroactive immunity” for a program that he has not had access to and does not understand. Frightening!
September 25, 2007
Historic Compartmentalization
by emptywheel
There’s something that Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell has suggested in the past, but which he has made crystal clear in his testimony today. The Administration has compartmentalized him out of the warrantless wiretapping program as it existed before he became DNI earlier this year. Senator Leahy made this clear–but then dropped the obvious follow-up. Here’s my rough transcript of the exchange:
Leahy: Obviously, you’ve seen the historical justification for these programs.
McConnell: I have not
Leahy: You’re lobbying to have us wipe out these cases retroactively by legislation. Isn’t this kind of asking us to buy a pig in a poke.
McConnell: I object to the word lobbying.
Leahy: I’m going back to July and August. You were advocating for.
McConnell: I’m advocating for what we need to do.
The follow-up Leahy missed, of course, was the question, “How the fuck can you lobby for immunity when you have no fucking clue what the telecomm companies were doing?” (I don’t think Leahy uses that language, but I can guarantee you he has heard it.)
Regardless, the implication is clear: the Administration has sent McConnell out to be their spokesperson for the reasonableness of the Administration’s wiretapping programs. And all the while they have ensured that he doesn’t know just how unreasonable they have been.
This shouldn’t surprise us. After all, we’ve known for some time that the Administration only pulled off its illegal program in the past by compartmentalizing information so that John Ashcroft and Jay Rockefeller could not really assess–or even understand–the program. But given the illegal uses to which deliberate compartmentalization has been put in the past, don’t you think we ought to insist that it end going forward?
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c.....ompar.html
Dino at 151 — The mods have enough to do without having to suss out who is kidding around and who is trying to sockpuppet. There are reasons for not allowing frequent changes. Thanks.
Dino Feinstein @ 150
We prefer people keep the same name to avoid misleading people. If you want to change your name, you have to fill out this form . . .
From Bill Maher…
“The Senate actually voted to condemn an ad. That’s what your government did yesterday—they had a vote to pass a resolution to condemn an ad with a pun in it. And then they had Oreos and braided each other’s hair.
And twenty two Democrats voted for that, by the way.
The Democrats are so useless they could not even pass a bill to get our troops more time between deployments. Only Republicans could make an argument that a bill that literally supports the troops didn’t support the troops, and only the Democrats could lose that argument.
Next week the Democrats are going to vote whether to give Republicans all their lunch money or just some of it.”
Fresh thread up and running for everyone…
And, while I’m at it, a huge thank you to Scarecrow for pitching in on posts this morning. The Peanut has a viral ick from one of the kids at preschool, and this momma appreciates the hand very much indeed.
caw caw Scarecrow!
TexBetsy @ 150
I agree. I am still waiting for his breakout moment though. Gravel was on fire and hope Edwards gains some insight from the wisdom that Gravel is displaying.
Biodun @ 147
Arrrgh! Typos. But my Point is still the same.
There would not be a $250,000 perking ticket for a person with $1 Million is asserts if the ratio is 1/400th
Christ has a new thread on the flipping Orrin Hatch.
Taking coverage for undocumented workers out of the bill is just political self preservation. If they left it in, they’d get the shit kicked out of em come 08.
((((Peanut!!))))
Time to MoveOn.
Jonathan @ 152
That would be THE most disciplined way to do it and is certainly the Blue AMerica approach. But any PAC that beaucuop Bucks will have money hungery candidats sucking up to it and it’s policy objectives.
Think GOPAC. Follow the GOPAC arm twist
TexBetsy @ 151
I especially liked his promise to NOT bring the troops home by the end of his first term. See, here’s the facts as they really are rather than as many wish them to be. ANY Dem that continues the Iraq war throughout their FIRST term will be a one-termer President. They will be doing precisely what Lyndon Johnson did vis a vis Vietnam. How’d that work out for him? It worked out EXACTLY the way it will if a Dem wins the White House and continues the illegal war in Iraq.
Edwards refused to do what Dodd, Richardson, Gravel, and Kucinich promised: to end the war and bring the troops home. Period. No prevaricating. He loses.
His failure to take the correct position vis a vis Iraq cost him my monthly donations. I terminated that mistake this morning, first thing. I donate to NO candidates now. And I wont in the future either. My money ONLY goes to the ACLU, the Sierra Club, and a few Native American groups, the Federation of American Scientists, and Union of Concerned Scientists. No one else deserves shit.
(ooops…wrong thread…edited by author)
zennurse @ 74
I would never presume to shut Jane up. I mean that we would not speak or even recognize the congresspeople who do not support us, who vote against us, not that we would not talk amongst ourselves. Quite loudly, in fact.
things come undone @ 28
I’m suggesting we walk away from the frontrunners in the Democratic Primary we can do that now at little cost if we lose they still need our money.
If we win we become Kingmakers I think taking a risk will show our power! I think we should take a risk to show the Democrats how!
The GOP is afraid of us showing our power thats why they claim we are to far left when the country supports ending the war and healthcare by huge margins.
Just what were the poll numbers on ending the war before Nixion won? That is the scenerio the GOP claims is going to happen.
Now just what were the numbers after the war ended and the economy was destroyed and Carter won? That is the scenerio I envision if the Democrats don’t do something now.
End the war save money, fix the subprime crisis save the economy, raise fuel economy for all cars stop needing so much oil, Get a French style healthcare system save money save lives.
Why are all our lefty postions more efficent and all the GOP/DEM postions so intent on proping up inefficent businesses and proping up corporate welfare?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 160
actually, a huge thank you to scarecrow for every day.
(and that goes for christy and jane, and trex and siun and everyone else too!)
Remember the conservative cliche: A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.
Apparently a liberal nowadays is a liberal who has been mugged by conservatives.
Praedor Atrebates @ 113
So you’re saying that they’re identical?
I can name several good things that have happened as a result of the Dems taking back Congress with our help — one big one being the defascsizing of the Fourth Circuit and other parts of the Federal Judiciary. (Seems that the Federalist Society hacks don’t like working for the relative pittances of government salaries, so they’re all bailing for corporate law firms — and Bush isn’t nominating people to replace them because he fears having to put them through a Senate grilling; the upshot is that the hacks go away, leaving behind the old Clinton and honorable-Republican appointees.)
And as I’ve already mentioned:
Are you prepared to do the hardcore and decades-long grunt work that putting together a major political party requires to be something other than a Republican-financed spoiler like the Greens? I’m talking 40 to 80 hours a week, for the next two to three decades.
looseheadprop @ 164
I think I get what the problem was my quote @115 was for one hundred million dollars 100,000,000 not a million 1,000,000 Bush’s are way richer than a paltrey millionaire!
looseheadprop @ 103
As PA is well aware.
GOOD COLUMN. This is such a good point. Why are the Dems setting themselves up to fail?
If the Rethuglicans threaten fillibuster, they back down like scared deer.
MAKE THE FF’G REPUBLICANS FILLIBUSTER. Make them fillibuster to deny children health care; time off for the soldiers, keep us in Iraq, etc.
Keep passing the damn bills with your own majority and make them stop them. Why set up the rules that if we don’t get a super majority we’ll just back down?
I think it’s cuz the Dems don’t really want to do anything about Iraq — they’re all getting waay too much $$$ from A*PAC to really pull us out. Witness the vote on the Iran/Lieberman bill.
A*PAC is one of the biggest donors of my Sen, Dick Durbin and his votes show. He voted for Liberman’s “bomb Iran now” bill.
SuburbanGirl @ 174
No, I think that would be a “centrist.”
‘Crow; good piece.
At this point, I’ve about decided that the democrats are literally afraid of removing george bush from office, and they don’t want to chip away in that direction with anything that might cause the bushCo house of cards to collapse, and leave them standing there with “What do we do now?” signs hanging around their necks.
Things in Iraq have gone so far; there is so much riding on it, that it’s looking like the democrats, including the leading candidates for preznit, are WILLING to “inherit” (their word) the clusterfuck, rather than try to hold bush and the rest of it’s creators to account for it.
I’ve supported John Edwards on here.
No more.
His willingness, along with Hillary and O’bama, to keep U.S. troops there at least until 2013, the end of a democrat’s first term, is an obscene sellout.
It’s also handing bush and the GOP the Goddamndest get-out-of-jail-free card in the history of either politics or monopoly.
I’m ready to start talking third party, if anyone wants to do it.
Excuse me while I go puke my guts out.
I’m EPU’d on this and OT, but our potential Democratic president needs this added to his/her required reading.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092607F.shtml
It’s a real eye-opener for those whom are still in denial.
Latecomer here, but I did want to say one thing: I think of these Dems as the hedgehog congress — as in hedgehogs know only one big thing. And what is the ONLY big thing they know? That when Newtie and the Rethugs shut down the government in ‘95, the country turned against them. The current Dems are so scared of that, they refuse to fight, not realizing that it’s a whole ‘nother ballgame now, with a massively unpopular president instead of one who actually had the country behind him.
Questions for Democratic leaders? Well, file the list away- it might come in handy if we ever find any Democratic leaders.
“risk losing our help”?
Tellya what, they’re past that point with me. they betrayed everything they promised us in 2006. Lied to our faces, most of them.
Not only did they risk losing my help, they lost it. All my money goes to MoveOn, DFA, and other groups. No more money directly to candidates, no more wearing down the shoe leather, no more knocking on doors.
You know what they get instead? Every time I send out the drinking liberally bulletin, which reaches about 750 Philadelphia progressives, I include what our representatives have been up to, and I am sad to report that precious few have been positive. Then I call up our representatives and read them what I sent out. It makes for entertaining conversations.
Today I’ve been leaving messages for Pat Murphy and Chaka Fattah asking if they’ll be returning the money MoveOn raised for them. Obviously, if the organization and its members are worthy of censure, then the money MUST be unacceptably tainted. They should give it back.
I’m beginning to believe we may have made a strategic mistake on Lieberman.
The message we wanted to send to Democratic members of congress was they better fall in line with the base or we’ll axe them.
The lesson that Democratic members of congress got was that they don’t have to fall in line because they can just run as an independent if we take them out in the primary.
We created more Liebermans.
Tanbark @ 180
Liberals tend to splinter over issues, so instead of a third party we’ll have six or seven. Electronic communication is fast and instantly changeable. Myspace has millions of users, but to suggest it become a political party would cause everyone to leave.
We need something that creates websites at local levels. I suggested every town put its check book on line. It would interest the townspeople and citizens of other towns as ways of tackling common problems are compared. The different web sites could then discuss politics or whatever and become a political party were the members so inclined. With the many shades of opinion, getting people to be on the same page will be the neatest trick of any week. It’s probably too late for 2008. It would take a massive effort and we’re not there yet in the sense that everyone has not decided the Dems are hopeless. A significant network could be in place by 2012. For 2008 we may have to choose the greater of many lessers. Unfortunately in 2012 we will likely face many of the problems we face today.
There has to be commonality between the sites otherwise you have a bunch of blogs. We need to create a network and then see what happens.
We need to elect some replacements for Waxman and Levin and Leahy and all those other defeatist Democratic blow hards who won’t use their power to confront the corrupt Bush sycopants. MoveOn.net has the right idea; let’s clear those timid Democrats out and find new more effective representatives. Until then, it’s letter-writing, jaw-flapping blowhard time.
This post contains a serious mistake. It says
The Constitution says
What this means is that all bills that propose new taxes, or changes in taxes, have to start in the House. But bills that spend rather than raise money can start in the Senate.
However, the Constitution also says
and since an appropriation requires the consent of both houses, either house has a veto over any spending. 41 senators can block an appropriation.
ED, I’m willing. For us to state to the poodles:
“You’re either with us or you’re against us.”
is only fair. Besides, we’ve been hearing it for nearly 7 years now, from the asshole whose butt they keep kissing.
The Democractic House and Senate have absolutely no leadership with Pelosi and Reid. Until they get someone with the courage of, say, Feingold, they will continue to cave, whine and BS their constituients. It’s up to us to call them everyday and call them out on this. No money for campaigns until they earn it. They think we don’t know the rules they operate under. Tell them we do. Tell the media we do. If we have to embarrass them to get some action, so be it. Their reputation can’t get any worse, maybe we can scare them into action. I’ve told my own Congressman, who is all but invisible when it comes to important issues, that he has lost my support, DEM or not, because he is ineffectual and intellectually lazy.
OCPatriot @ 187
Waxman has been doing his legal best to dog these guys right out of office. Leahy has been connecting the dots in preparation for whatever he can leverage. I think that you’re right about Levin, though.
I sent a long letter to my senators and representative today telling them I was fed up with what was going on and that I wasn’t going to give any money to anyone. I gave somewhere between $2k and $3k in each of the last two election cycles so that ought to make me a not insignificant donor. I said that calls to their office always made me feel completely ineffectual and powerless. Perhaps they’ll respond to the only thing that seems to make any difference to them: Money.
Loosehead; that’s a pretty good list of possible reasons for our bend-over-and-spread-your-cheeks poodles’ behaviour.
I’d like to add this:
If ANYONE on that stage believes, as Clinton said:
“It’s very difficult to know what we’re going to be inheriting…”
Then they should get the fuck OFF that stage, instanter, and OUT of the race, and go home to eat fish, or sardines, or Omega-D oils, or something to improve their cognitive ability.
John, Hillary, and Barak, let me help you:
The next president is going to inherit one HELL of a wall-banging, insoluble, CLUSTERFUCK!
Wednesday nights proceedings locked in a HUGE factoid; that being, that the leading candidates for the democratic nomination for the presidency of the United States, are quite comfortable with letting george bush sacrifice the lives of several hundred more of our troops (at minimum, and not to mention the Iraqi lives, plus a few zillion more dollars) to cover his political ass, while he strings things out, and generously bequeathes the radioactive turd that he’s created in Iraq to their eager and willing hands.
And of course, I’m not just pickin’ on Hillary here; Edwards and Obama were right there with her in the “Gosharootie! Who knows what’s gonna happen?” canoe; oaring and whoring with the “we need more time…” shitspeak, like they were the bushCo-Oxford shell team.
By God, the obscenity of what they were saying made me yearn for the good, clean, fun, of the juiciest porn-flick ever made.
My stomach literally turned when I read their statements.
Don’t don’t know what else to rant. I’m stunned.
Fern @ 24
Why blame her? Isn’t it the Blue dogs who have taken control?
If Harry Reid is willing to let majority rule go down the drain with the silly filibuster rule, then let’s blame him. If Hoyer and Emanuel want to ruin the House, then blame them.
So far I’ve only seen a couple of missteps from Spkr. Pelosi. Nope, this debacle is all Blue Dog and Republican.
selise @ 68
I don’t see how you can blame her. The Blue Dog votes are certainly there. How can you say it’s her fault? If there are ways for the Blue Dogs to get votes on things she doesn’t really want to bring up, then what is she to do to hold them at bay?
Plus, is it really Democracy for one person to stifle the rest of Congress?
I know it stinks, but if this is the play the Blue Dogs want to make, then let them and counter-attack in the primaries. Replace them just as we would replace Republicans.
When Blue Dogs triangulate and join Republicans, then that definitely puts Pelosi (and us) in the minority!
Tanbark @ 189
Tanbark drop me a line at ekunin@optonline.net
We’ll talk.