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	<title>Comments on: From the Department of Gradual Self-Asphyxiation</title>
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		<title>By: mike in dc</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1001237</link>
		<dc:creator>mike in dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1001237</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-999889&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Swopa @ 221&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-999854&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;mike in dc @ 212&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Edwards is applying for public financing–which means all this blogospheric enthusiasm for him has  not translated into financial competitiveness.  If Obama’s so tepid and uninspiring, why is he crushing Edwards in small donations?&lt;br /&gt;
What happens to all this sentiment if/when Obama wins Iowa and Edwards drops out?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Jeebus, It’s only September, folks.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Neither Edwards nor Clinton have any meaningful edge in political experience(Clinton’s more polished/programmed, but that’s about it).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Edwards’ actual record in office  ultra-populist/progressive.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But, whatevs.  Enjoy your venom-baths.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Mike, I don’t know for sure that you’re responding to my post rather than something in the comments, but I’m certainly not venomous toward Obama.  I would love for him to be the nominee, but as an objective observer I’m going to be honest and say why I don’t think his campaign is going to get him there.  An extremely good friend of mine in Chicago worked on Obama’s Senate campaign, and she’s disappointed, too.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And yes, of course it’s only September.  All the more reason to criticize him now… or would you prefer everyone second-guess him after it’s too late?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m of the opinion that “Team Obama” sees this thing as a marathon, not a sprint.  He wins by being the viable alternative.  If/when Edwards loses Iowa, he is toast, and his voters will move on to their second choice, which is likely to be Obama.  If Edwards drops out before Iowa, which is beginning to look like a real possibility, then Obama immediately makes up about half the polling gap nationally, and probably surges into a clear lead in Iowa.  The media narrative shifts accordingly–”Can Hillary hold off Barack?”&lt;br /&gt;
The buzz is that the Obama ground game is developing into something formidable and unprecedented.  Obviously we will find out early next year.&lt;br /&gt;
Would I like him to make bolder statements?  Sure.  And there’s still time to do that.  Criticize Hillary more directly?  Absolutely.  But perhaps they think letting Edwards do it to her for a while will give them an impression of whether it works or not.  Generally the nastiest hits on the frontrunner happen in the last 4-6 weeks before Iowa–I’d expect her to lose some ground there and nationally in that period, partially because of negative media and partially because at least one of her opponents is buying ads and making speeches slamming her and her record.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-999889"><em>Swopa @ 221</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-999854"><em>mike in dc @ 212</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Edwards is applying for public financing–which means all this blogospheric enthusiasm for him has  not translated into financial competitiveness.  If Obama’s so tepid and uninspiring, why is he crushing Edwards in small donations?<br />
What happens to all this sentiment if/when Obama wins Iowa and Edwards drops out?</p>
<p>Jeebus, It’s only September, folks.</p>
<p>Neither Edwards nor Clinton have any meaningful edge in political experience(Clinton’s more polished/programmed, but that’s about it).</p>
<p>Edwards’ actual record in office  ultra-populist/progressive.  </p>
<p>But, whatevs.  Enjoy your venom-baths.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Mike, I don’t know for sure that you’re responding to my post rather than something in the comments, but I’m certainly not venomous toward Obama.  I would love for him to be the nominee, but as an objective observer I’m going to be honest and say why I don’t think his campaign is going to get him there.  An extremely good friend of mine in Chicago worked on Obama’s Senate campaign, and she’s disappointed, too.</p>
<p>And yes, of course it’s only September.  All the more reason to criticize him now… or would you prefer everyone second-guess him after it’s too late?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’m of the opinion that “Team Obama” sees this thing as a marathon, not a sprint.  He wins by being the viable alternative.  If/when Edwards loses Iowa, he is toast, and his voters will move on to their second choice, which is likely to be Obama.  If Edwards drops out before Iowa, which is beginning to look like a real possibility, then Obama immediately makes up about half the polling gap nationally, and probably surges into a clear lead in Iowa.  The media narrative shifts accordingly–”Can Hillary hold off Barack?”<br />
The buzz is that the Obama ground game is developing into something formidable and unprecedented.  Obviously we will find out early next year.<br />
Would I like him to make bolder statements?  Sure.  And there’s still time to do that.  Criticize Hillary more directly?  Absolutely.  But perhaps they think letting Edwards do it to her for a while will give them an impression of whether it works or not.  Generally the nastiest hits on the frontrunner happen in the last 4-6 weeks before Iowa–I’d expect her to lose some ground there and nationally in that period, partially because of negative media and partially because at least one of her opponents is buying ads and making speeches slamming her and her record.</p>
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		<title>By: nogo war</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1001053</link>
		<dc:creator>nogo war</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1001053</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I will add again…as someone who lives within walking distance of the 08 convention…&lt;br /&gt;
It Takes OVER 50%……..&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will add again…as someone who lives within walking distance of the 08 convention…<br />
It Takes OVER 50%……..</p>
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		<title>By: nogo war</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1001040</link>
		<dc:creator>nogo war</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 06:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1001040</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;C’mon folks….did anyone really think an “articlate” truly African/American would be allowed to win the nomination?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Does anyone really believe someone with the consistent integrity like Dennis Kucinich would be allowed to win the nomination?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Does anyone really believe someone like Edwards who declares it IS class warfare would be allowed to win the nomination?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(speaking of Edwards…golly Kos and mydd are really pissed he is opting for federal funds)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3mi-bKtDGA&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3mi-bKtDGA&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;…but of course we will….&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C’mon folks….did anyone really think an “articlate” truly African/American would be allowed to win the nomination?</p>
<p>Does anyone really believe someone with the consistent integrity like Dennis Kucinich would be allowed to win the nomination?</p>
<p>Does anyone really believe someone like Edwards who declares it IS class warfare would be allowed to win the nomination?</p>
<p>(speaking of Edwards…golly Kos and mydd are really pissed he is opting for federal funds)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3mi-bKtDGA">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3mi-bKtDGA</a></p>
<p>…but of course we will….</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1001004</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 06:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1001004</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-999966&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Joe Buck @ 225&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Well, one of these guys has to go down.  We need one strong anti-Hillary candidate if we’re going to stop her coronation.  My ideal would be a candidate that combines the attributes of Obama and Edwards:&lt;br /&gt;
… I’m worrying about the consequences of a three-person race if Hillary maintains her lead.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It certainly IS a crazy race with 3 leaders.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-999966"><em>Joe Buck @ 225</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Well, one of these guys has to go down.  We need one strong anti-Hillary candidate if we’re going to stop her coronation.  My ideal would be a candidate that combines the attributes of Obama and Edwards:<br />
… I’m worrying about the consequences of a three-person race if Hillary maintains her lead.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It certainly IS a crazy race with 3 leaders.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1000997</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 06:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1000997</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-999849&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;CTuttle @ 208&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-999837&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Jonathan @ 198&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;In order of importance, what are the 5 most critical problems facing America over the next 20 years?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m interested, because I figure that’s how much longer I have to go.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hmmm…&lt;br /&gt;
1) Extricating us out of Iraq!&lt;br /&gt;
2) Clean up the DoJ/Executive…&lt;br /&gt;
3) Universal Healthcare(Single Payer)&lt;br /&gt;
4)  Shore up Soc. Security&lt;br /&gt;
5)  Repeal Nafta/Cafta et.al…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Damn, gotta get Global Warming in there somewhere…!!!  ;-)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Your list indicates there are at least two ways of looking at the question: order of things to do or significance.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(tentative) order,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1. out of Iraq&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[ maybe catch up on legislation Bush has vetoed from this Congress ]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2. health care reform begin&lt;br /&gt;
3. NOLA work&lt;br /&gt;
4. mortgage problem if it’s there&lt;br /&gt;
5. 9/11 review&lt;br /&gt;
6. al Qaeda?&lt;br /&gt;
7. continue getting rid of nukes&lt;br /&gt;
8. CAFE standards&lt;br /&gt;
9. International Trade reform&lt;br /&gt;
10. corporate retirement security&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Geez, the list is very very long.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Significance:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1. Save world from carbon&lt;br /&gt;
2. save world from nukes&lt;br /&gt;
3. save people from wars&lt;br /&gt;
4. save people from disease&lt;br /&gt;
5. save people from starvation&lt;br /&gt;
etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You know, for the kids!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-999849"><em>CTuttle @ 208</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-999837"><em>Jonathan @ 198</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>In order of importance, what are the 5 most critical problems facing America over the next 20 years?</p>
<p>I’m interested, because I figure that’s how much longer I have to go.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hmmm…<br />
1) Extricating us out of Iraq!<br />
2) Clean up the DoJ/Executive…<br />
3) Universal Healthcare(Single Payer)<br />
4)  Shore up Soc. Security<br />
5)  Repeal Nafta/Cafta et.al…</p>
<p>Damn, gotta get Global Warming in there somewhere…!!!  ;-)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Your list indicates there are at least two ways of looking at the question: order of things to do or significance.</p>
<p>(tentative) order,</p>
<p>1. out of Iraq</p>
<p>[ maybe catch up on legislation Bush has vetoed from this Congress ]</p>
<p>2. health care reform begin<br />
3. NOLA work<br />
4. mortgage problem if it’s there<br />
5. 9/11 review<br />
6. al Qaeda?<br />
7. continue getting rid of nukes<br />
8. CAFE standards<br />
9. International Trade reform<br />
10. corporate retirement security</p>
<p>Geez, the list is very very long.</p>
<p>Significance:</p>
<p>1. Save world from carbon<br />
2. save world from nukes<br />
3. save people from wars<br />
4. save people from disease<br />
5. save people from starvation<br />
etc.</p>
<p>You know, for the kids!</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1000956</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 05:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1000956</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-999669&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;michael @ 47&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;America - more than racist enough to not vote for a black man but naive enough to think it will.  what a country.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I noticed that during and at the end of the OJ trial. The racial divide was amazingly big and it surprised me. Yeah, we’re getting there, but it’s gonna take more time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Remember, we’ve still got Alito and Roberts and Scalia and Thomas to get past to recover from their ’separate and unequal is fair’ doctrine for education.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-999669"><em>michael @ 47</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>America &#8211; more than racist enough to not vote for a black man but naive enough to think it will.  what a country.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I noticed that during and at the end of the OJ trial. The racial divide was amazingly big and it surprised me. Yeah, we’re getting there, but it’s gonna take more time.</p>
<p>Remember, we’ve still got Alito and Roberts and Scalia and Thomas to get past to recover from their ’separate and unequal is fair’ doctrine for education.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeter Helflind</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1000945</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeter Helflind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 05:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1000945</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-999627&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Praedor Atrebates @ 15&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Obama is done.  So is Edwards (goddamned craven pro-war-forever crap!).  Hillary sucks BIG TIME and is NOT the answer to what ails us by a long shot but the DC punditocracy has chosen her and, by damn, she WILL be the candidate.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wont vote for her but she WILL be the candidate because we the People don’t really get to select the people we want to vote for any more.  THAT is why they ALL only listen to the DC pundit class.  Those criminals and idiots are the ones that anoint the candidates (and then choose to support or sink them) and we are given an illusion that we are selecting candidates.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I just want to say that this is the best site on the web, and I am voting for Clinton without reservation. We need 70 Senate seats (not counting Liebermilch) and Obama and Edwards just ain’t up to the job of excavating 8 years of crusted crap. Hillary is. I wish people would leave Gore alone and let him do his thing. Why push him into being President? He, not some butthead like Dorgan or Alexander, would be at Clinton’s side and of service to the country and the world.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-999627"><em>Praedor Atrebates @ 15</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Obama is done.  So is Edwards (goddamned craven pro-war-forever crap!).  Hillary sucks BIG TIME and is NOT the answer to what ails us by a long shot but the DC punditocracy has chosen her and, by damn, she WILL be the candidate.</p>
<p>I wont vote for her but she WILL be the candidate because we the People don’t really get to select the people we want to vote for any more.  THAT is why they ALL only listen to the DC pundit class.  Those criminals and idiots are the ones that anoint the candidates (and then choose to support or sink them) and we are given an illusion that we are selecting candidates.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I just want to say that this is the best site on the web, and I am voting for Clinton without reservation. We need 70 Senate seats (not counting Liebermilch) and Obama and Edwards just ain’t up to the job of excavating 8 years of crusted crap. Hillary is. I wish people would leave Gore alone and let him do his thing. Why push him into being President? He, not some butthead like Dorgan or Alexander, would be at Clinton’s side and of service to the country and the world.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1000943</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 05:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1000943</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-999627&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Praedor Atrebates @ 15&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Obama is done.  So is Edwards (goddamned craven pro-war-forever crap!). …
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You’re kidding right? The guy who said ‘no troops, no money, no excuses’ and you say he’s ‘craven’?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bizarro.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think Edwards’ idea is simply to withdraw from the civil war, train Iraqi troops and if suitable fight any al Qaeda types around (few of those). I wouldn’t be surprised if he just backed off and used some time to assess the world before committing to anything.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What’s wrong with keeping options open? Wouldn’t you want to have options if you were a new president just going into office and not really knowing what kind of mess Shrub has left?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;‘craven’? Heh, go watch the Republican debates.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-999627"><em>Praedor Atrebates @ 15</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Obama is done.  So is Edwards (goddamned craven pro-war-forever crap!). …
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>You’re kidding right? The guy who said ‘no troops, no money, no excuses’ and you say he’s ‘craven’?</p>
<p>Bizarro.</p>
<p>I think Edwards’ idea is simply to withdraw from the civil war, train Iraqi troops and if suitable fight any al Qaeda types around (few of those). I wouldn’t be surprised if he just backed off and used some time to assess the world before committing to anything.</p>
<p>What’s wrong with keeping options open? Wouldn’t you want to have options if you were a new president just going into office and not really knowing what kind of mess Shrub has left?</p>
<p>‘craven’? Heh, go watch the Republican debates.</p>
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		<title>By: JDWPS</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1000509</link>
		<dc:creator>JDWPS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1000509</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I like Obama a lot, and I will vote for him. I believe he threatens the “system” and that no one who is part of the “system” really wants him to win…which would include a lot of the media who declared Clinton the winner right away. I know little about how the polls work but does anyone know if they can be rigged. I believe Edwards says the system is rigged, and I think I agree.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Obama a lot, and I will vote for him. I believe he threatens the “system” and that no one who is part of the “system” really wants him to win…which would include a lot of the media who declared Clinton the winner right away. I know little about how the polls work but does anyone know if they can be rigged. I believe Edwards says the system is rigged, and I think I agree.</p>
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		<title>By: SuburbanGirl</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1000368</link>
		<dc:creator>SuburbanGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 02:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/27/from-the-department-of-gradual-self-asphyxiation/#comment-1000368</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Obama’s problem is that he’s staked his campaign on a personal image of being an uplifting, bipartisan uniter,&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Precisely why I won’t vote for him in the primary. I want an OPPOSITION leader. Bipartisanship assumes both sides are willing to play. And, as 7 years has shown us, Republicans only play ball with themselves.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Obama’s problem is that he’s staked his campaign on a personal image of being an uplifting, bipartisan uniter,</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Precisely why I won’t vote for him in the primary. I want an OPPOSITION leader. Bipartisanship assumes both sides are willing to play. And, as 7 years has shown us, Republicans only play ball with themselves.</p>
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