People are starting to feel like Barack Obama has some explaining to do. Here’s how the Washington Post put it on Sunday:
While the candidates for the White House will spend the next week furiously raising money in advance of their next financial reporting deadline, the man who has raised the most is facing a different challenge: turning that money into a lead in the polls.
. . . some of the donors who have helped raise millions for [Barack] Obama are beginning to ask when the gap in polls between Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) will finally begin to narrow. The first votes in the primary season will be cast in less than four months, and the nomination could be wrapped up in a matter of weeks after that.
“People ask me all the time when I’m raising money: ‘What is going on with the polling?‘ ” one member of Obama’s national finance committee said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the campaign’s restriction on committee members speaking to the news media. “He drives out great crowds wherever he goes, but everyone still wonders a little bit if that’s going to turn into votes.”
The spin doctors, of course, have their optimistic opinions:
Obama campaign manager David Plouffe contended that the race should be viewed through the early crucible of Iowa, which remains almost certain to have the first say in the nomination contest despite a shifting campaign calendar.
“I think Iowa is in a different level of engagement than any other state in the country, and what you see there is a very tight three-way contest” among Obama, Clinton and former senator John Edwards (D-N.C.), Plouffe said in an interview. “It’s the only place we’ve advertised in and the place Senator Obama has spent most of his time.”
Well, it certainly can’t be a good sign, then, Plouffe-boy, that your guy’s poll numbers in Iowa have been stagnant all month at barely 20 percent, can it? Even worse, the media vultures are beginning to circle, as Noam Scheiber of the New Republic wrote early this morning:
Prior to the debate, the cable pundits were practically giddy with anticipation of a looming Obama offensive. Chris Matthews went on about how Obama needed to wag his finger at Clinton and indict her over the war, like a prosecutor in the Scott Turow movie Presumed Innocent. Obama’s performance tonight seemed like a direct response to these expectations. There was almost an element of defiance in his low-key performance, as though he were saying: “This is the strategy I’m going with, so lay off.” His aides later underscored this impression.
Obama’s problem is that he’s staked his campaign on a personal image of being an uplifting, bipartisan uniter, as outlined exhaustively in a New York Times profile of Obama campaign guru David Axelrod in April. Unfortunately, that role doesn’t suit itself to battling one’s way out of a deficit in the polls — and, even worse, it’s quite likely not what Democratic or even independent voters are looking for in 2008.
Axelrod is credited in that NYT profile as being ahead of the curve politically (“So many consultants are fighting the last war, but David is fighting the next one”), but ironically seeking to duplicate Dubya’s personality-over-policy appeal even while claiming to recognize that “every election is a reaction to the last president.”
If the 2008 election is going to be a reaction to the Shrub-in-Chief, then the lesson Team Obama should learn is that policies matter. We’ve tried the likable-guy approach, and it got the country stuck in the ditch in any number of painful ways. So the candidate people are likely to vote for is the one who gives the best sense of being ready to roll up their sleeves and start digging us out.
And to a country that feels stuck in a ditch, the guy in the impeccably clean shirt telling us that the real solution is to “redefine the relationship between your car and the road” probably isn’t going to get a great reception.
(Photo from last night’s debate via the Associated Press.)
Related posts:
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- BREAKING: With 68 Votes, Sotomayor Approved as Associate Justice
- House Intelligence Committee Catches Defense Department Hiding Clandestine Operations
- Dick Cheney Spied on the State Department–Did He Intercept Torture Whistleblower Emails?





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zed.
Hiya Swopa.
It was reported today that Michelle Obama made a comment to the effect that if Obama doesn’t win Iowa, it is all over, it was a dream..
Hmmmm….I’m wondering if he’s dealing with a lot of threats or something…
single digits
The gap in the polls between Hillary and Obama will narrow when she chooses him as her running mate. Perhaps.
HMMMMMmmm, where have I seen that before?
Wait, wait, let me guess.
LIEBERMAN?
Spit.
Not only that, but Bush could run on a promise to reduce partisanship, because the hard-core partisans of the ’90s were the Republican right-wingers who hated Clinton, and of *course* Bush could make shut up, because *his* election was their goal, too.
Obama can run a campaign with that philosophy (overcoming partisanship for the good of the country), but if he believes it (and somehow manages to win), he’s going to get quite a shock on January 21, 2009, when Republicans cancel his reservation for a honeymoon.
LS @ 3
Yeah, I spent some time chasing that down — supposedly, it was a misquote.
It is probably a fact, though.
That’s got to be Hillary’s whole strategy now, right? This is Hillary’s narrative. Use that pile of money to ensure that there is no change in momentum. Make it feel inevitable.
Bail being posted for Michael Bell!!!! He’s going to be released!!! Citizen pressure works.
After watching Obama and Clinton during the first part of the “debate” last night on Iraq, the view here is that they both rate an ‘F’.
The press has already given the nomination to Clinton – so at this early stage when few are paying attention to the candidates, few are tuned into the debates (which are lame forums as they are presently run), I am nor surprised tht Obama’s poll numbers are stagnant.
It’s hard to be cutthroat when you are running on decency, change and pragmatism.
It’s hard to be seen as a winner when the press has already declared your opponent has won. Newspaper headlines and news anchors who repeat them – the media wants Clinton because it will feed their own agenda. The Republican hate machine will have a field day blasting her every breath – the food fight will be profitable.
Actually, I think Obama wants the VP slot. I think the “run for President” thing was always a lark.
Swopa @ 8
I heard it on CNN. Is that where you heard it? Hmmm…I’m sure you are right.
Obama is done. So is Edwards (goddamned craven pro-war-forever crap!). Hillary sucks BIG TIME and is NOT the answer to what ails us by a long shot but the DC punditocracy has chosen her and, by damn, she WILL be the candidate.
I wont vote for her but she WILL be the candidate because we the People don’t really get to select the people we want to vote for any more. THAT is why they ALL only listen to the DC pundit class. Those criminals and idiots are the ones that anoint the candidates (and then choose to support or sink them) and we are given an illusion that we are selecting candidates.
I still think Gore will run.
It seems like these guys are handing it to Hillary. That has to give the Republics renewed hope as the Clinton smear machines shake off the dust. Crap.
Al Gore, please run.
great post, Swopa.
Poor Obama -
Even wrapped in $2000 suits, he’s still a Chicago machine tool.
Currently on “likeable guy” setting.
A servile posture helps Obama curry favor with his masters, the megacorps.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 5
My thoughts are that Obama has decided to run for VP.
Even with Obama as VP on a Hillary ticket, Hillary will NOT get my vote. Ever.
Kucinich and Gravel were making the most sense last night on foreign issues. And naturally neither of them has a chance.
My ‘candidate’ was nowhere near that stage.
GordonM @ 13
That’s another miscalculation by Obama then. Bayh, Wesley Clark or Vilsack will be there VP candidate I bet.
Edwards is my choice, but Sen. Clinton’s profile with the media just blocks out the sun! Edwards just can’t get much exposure (compared to Clinton), to say nothing of the lesser lights such as Dodd, who’s been sounding pretty good to me lately.
Praedor Atrebates @ 19
Do you prefer Rudy? We must get a Dem in the White House or it’s all over.
Praedor Atrebates @ 19
That’s understandable.
Dodd made some statement apparently that he “knows” why Bush wants Hillary to win the candidacy….wonder what that’s all about? I’ll bet they are worrying that Gore will run. Hmmmm…I wonder how they could get such an impression, if indeed that were the case..
We in this house will vote for the nominee of our party. But we may not like it one bit.
LS @ 10
Enough mooola works!
Edwards is NOT handing anything to Hillary. He’s the one who’s challenging her…with smarts. Just this afternoon on a CNN interview he said he supports public financing of campaigns…will accept public financing of his campaign. All the way. And challenged Hillary and any other candidates who say they support public financing to work within the public financing program that already exists.
Praedor–your hostility is troubling. I’m determined to work within the Democratic party. Like Edwards, I will endeavor to Demand Better. Be Better.
Obama is great from a distance but when he is in a relatively small gathering here in NH he has real trouble answering substance questions. Once you get to see him up close he is just one more package brought to you by the DLC (or whom/whatever) prepared with sound bite answers the “usual” questions.
He was muddled with knowledge of his own health care plan the other day…. maybe because his people had borrowed so much of it from Edwards… rhetoric is his forte substantive answers not so much.
I had hopes that Obama could turn that charisma and rhetorical power towards highlighting the Republican crime syndicate. I want them pounded on torture, habeas corpus, corruption, fiscal recklessness, and every other crime. I want their party destroyed, prosecuted under the RICO statutes, and ended, permanently.
I don’t want a uniter in any way. I want a ball-crusher.
What is Gore’s position on troops in Iraq?
I do not believe a word I heard or read in the main stream media unless it is independently confirmed. I listen to them only to hear the next Republican offensive. People were inclined to believe the president but now all but the professional goopers have abandoned ship. The media is owned by life long Republicans with agendas requiring political influence.
The television/paid media and all out offensives are just beginning. It’s too early to let the media control the question.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 20
I saw your candidate on Blitzer last night, though. He looked happy and carefree, blowing off that fool’s questions about who he is endorsing for prez.
Thinking how people are pining for him made me feel kind of sad — like we are all collectively Rapunzel in the tower, watching our Prince ride away into the sunset.
nomolos @ 29
He isn’t DLC, though they have tried to convert him to the darkside. He’s a product of the Chicago political machine, much like Rahm Emanuel.
Veritas78 @ 30
I like the way you think.
oddmommy @ 33
Gore was on with Leslie Blitzer last night?
I wasn’t going to post this, but since everyone is talking about Gore…take a look at this diary from DK, when you have some extra time:
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/27/11636/8444
Veritas78 @ 30
Suzanne’s not usually on till close to late-night.
At the Univision (Spanish language TV) debate,Obama was barely awake. Just no spark there. I haven’t yet really seen his ‘charisma’ in action.
I’m afraid in the end, Obama is much ado about nothing. If he can get a VP nod, maybe he’ll have the chops in another 8 years.
oddmommy @ 33
This is precisely why I stopped “waiting for Gore” and committed to Edwards. I just don’t think Obama is ready for prime time, and, like her or not, I’d rather have HRC appointing judges for the next 8 years than any Republican I can think of. BTW, did you see her laugh in Chris Wallace’s face on FOX the other day?
Lovely.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 36
Is Leslie his real name?? No way!
I think it was Blitzer. They’re all starting to look alike to me.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 11
here too.
Veritas78 @ 30
Yes!
(metaphorically speaking, natch. of course, discussion of Brownshirt Dems’ testicles appears to be predicated upon oxymoronic gonads)
The strange thing about Obama is that he is so incredibly powerful when speaking on the campaign trail…I saw him in Austin..and he was amazing, but for some reason…he seems so “subdued” in the debates…more and more so. Maybe he wants out. Maybe he wants VP…Maybe he wants to keep his job…I just don’t know..something’s up. He was not feeling at all well last night..that was obvious.
much like the man he chose as mentor in the Senate, Joe Lieberman.
America – more than racist enough to not vote for a black man but naive enough to think it will. what a country.
Obama not turning the money into polls…
Maybe it’s not Obama that’s the problem.
Maybe it’s the media — the one that bought and paid for Hillary?
I am still scratching my head about the bullshit from Amy Walters on CNN the morning after the presidential forum at YearlyKos. 1000 people booed and hissed Hillary’s weasely avoidance on the issue of free press and lobbyist money (pointedly talking about Murdoch’s donation to her campaign here).
And Ms. Walters had the audacity to claim that Hillary improved her position at YearlyKos?
What kind of fuckery was that???
Worse, the candidate who garnered the longest and loudest applause at the same event Ms. Walters said had slipped into the second tier. She was referring to John Edwards.
Something smells about this entire situation. I don’t personally know any die-hard Clinton supporters out there, do any of you? And yet she’s polling as she is??
Prador, I am with you one hundred percent. HC does not represent the Democratic party I know and work for every day. She will quite simply work against everything I intend to do and more with Blue America etc.. through the next election cycle and beyond. I am a progressive and I will not coddle the anti progressives (DLC) in my party anymore. I tried working with them for over twenty years.. it’s just not working out.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 34
Aha that explains it. Thanks
RonD @ 41
better yet, Jon Stewart’s bit about her laughing in all those interviews. She looked like a real boob.
Kiddo and other Hilhaters, I think you might enjoy that one.
Might as well extract some humor wherever possible in this grim mess.
I haven’t been impressed with Obama any time this year. And I’m not favorably impressed with Hillary either. Too much triangulating and waffling for me; they’re trying to get the votes of the ‘moderate’ GOP (all, what, six of them that are left?) and blowing off the entire base of the party they claim to belong to.
Hints to Dem presidential candidates (in no particular order):
Bring the troops home ASAP;
rebuild NOLA;
hike the ceiling on Social Security contributions to at least $200,000/year;
repeal (or at least thoroughly revise) all of Shrub’s ’security’ laws;
stop being Israel’s strongarm guy in the Middle East;
restore habeas corpus and the 1st and 4th amendments;
return the legislative and judicial branches to their theoretical equality.
And for Ghu’s sake, swear off starting wars!
800lb gorilla in the room……obama is not going to win…and not just b/c he’s an african american…but he’s shown he’s not willing to be bold and forceful…imo
I must respectfully disagree. I thought she looked totally self-confident and in control, and totally unafraid to mock Wallace to his toes. I thought she looked impressive, and I’m an Edwards guy.
And to a country that feels stuck in a ditch, the guy in the impeccably clean shirt telling us that the real solution is to “redefine the relationship between your car and the road” probably isn’t going to get a great reception.
that’s a nice turn of a phrase!
Primary season is as far left as Hillary will ever be.. it’s not enough now much less when she has us triangulated out of her hair.
My take on Obama:
Weak 3rd tier campaign team/organization in comparison to HRC and Edwards.
He seems to campaign mostly as a “Preacher” bidding the flock to do good or something else sugary. Lo-cal and content-free is great for a diet, but not (this time) for a national leader.
Inexperience as a national-stage politician is obvious and ongoing. This aspect is only further exacerbated by the 3rd tier campaign team.
Doesn’t seem to have a targeted and focused campaign plan other than he’s against the war and we all should hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
Lastly, I find it cynically humorous that he’s rolling in dough, but doesn’t seem to know what to do with it.
I’m sure it will get spent, but wisely? More likely it will get nibbled to death frivolously by his campaign minions like kids in a candy store.
Veritas78 @ 30
:-) :-) Hear hear!
obama’s wife has more moxie than he’ll ever have – too bad SHE’S not running!!
to put into terms the media can understand
the American public is watching the game
the media is calling the game based on the cheerleaders
Great post.
Put me down for one “ball-crusher” too.
The Rovians have brilliantly set up the Dems for failure. If you remove all of the troops right now…all of them; there will be some sort of chaos even if just short-lived. I believe that. The Dems are, therefore, put in the risky position of either removing them and letting the chips fall where they may, which could be good or bad…it is unknown. Now the candidates are falling for it, and stating that they can’t guarantee that all of the troops will be out five years from now. Reality is, they won’t all be out 5 years from now, or perhaps ever. That is the truth. They may not all leave, ever. If there is chaos, the Dems will be blamed if they leave, and the Repubs could retake the Presidency in 2012. It is not because the Dems are wrong, it is because the Bushie’s have successfully set them up for failure. Damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. That is where we are right now. The only thing that will work is if the Iraqis throw the US out. That would be the best scenario.
sporkovat @ 46
Heh! Yer not supposed to talk about that!
LS @ 3
Seems to me it’s more likely he’s dealing with reality. He’s just not ready yet. In time, he may be, but certainly not yet. Too many mistakes; too many missteps, he’s good, but not the best, not yet!
Senator Clinton seems to want to label all questions she doesn’t want to answer as being hypothetical. That worked once or twice but it’s getting old. Same with the laughing business. I actually liked her laughing at Chris Wallace the other day. But Senator, you’re way over playing that too.
Interesting, Michelle Obama, was quoted on Hardball; “If Barak doesn’t win Iowa, then it’s over…!!!” Hmmm…
I thought Obama outflanked a Machine candidate by tacking left, and he’s had the reputation as some kind of Liberal ever since, but it was tactical to get nominated in the primary.
No to triangulating. No to compromise. No to bipartisanship. Balls to the wall.
Veritas78 @ 30
Got a call from a candidate last year, saying, “A Democrat A Republican could be comfortable voting for!”
I don’t want a Democrat a Republican could vote for. I want a Democrat that scares the complete living shit out of Republicans! I want a Democrat that makes Republicans trip over each other in the race to trade testimony for immunity ! I want a Democrat that keeps them awake at night, and makes them fear for their future.
I don’t think Dean is running, so, the obvious choice to me is Edwards.
BTW, Jim DeMint, R-SC, is a f’ing nutcase.
RonD @ 53
I’m sure you’re right about the Wallace interview. What I’m referring to was one of those things Stewart does with video clips, putting pieces together for comedic effect. Evidently Hil laughed in all the interviews she did last wknd.
LS @ 62
If this scenario comes to pass we know who to blame:
Miss Nancy…
Rahmit Emmanuel….
Hoyer….
‘Gutless’ Reid….
Obama, D-Ostrich….
The Hill….
Notice anything about these folks?
They call themselves ‘Demcrats’. I call ‘em stupid and/or bought and paid for by that which dare not speak it’s name.
the candidates that i’m impressed with are dodd – gravel and kucinich…yeah i know they’ve been counted out but there are some of us paying attention to them for sure
Great post.
So if Obama drops out after Iowa, who do his New Hampshire supporters vote for? Will he point them HRC’s way?
juslin @ 58
actually it’s too bad Hilary’s “wife” isn’t running. They’ve trashed the rest of the Constitution — why not toss out term limits too?
i’m on obama’s mailing list due to a letter i wrote to him….
and disclaimer-he’s not in my top three…….
each campaign letter is a different tack…….and are all well-written, covering a lot of ground in each one, each one different……..
the thing that noone is mentioning is that he hasn’t taken pac money or lobbyist money……….he’s raised all of that money without doing that………
i find that interesting.
and they mention grassroots and use the word ‘movement’ in almost every letter.
the last few, is that they have gotten people to match new contributions. that’s the latest push….that you will get a letter from the person who matched you…since i haven’t given any, i’m getting those emails.
He gets smaller and smaller in every debate, to me anyway.
from day one I felt Obama was too green (inexperienced) to run for president. how about tempering that ambition and getting at least one senate term under your belt first?
TeddySanFran @ 73
The view here is that if he wants a shot at VP he would.
agreed elliot sadly
LS @ 61
Think you are right, mostly. Bush has the next president, whoever he/she might be, in a bind, on purpose. Right or wrong, I do not believe that any legitimate candidate, regardless of what they say, can or will do a total troop pullout quickly. We might not like it, I don’t, but that’s the way it is.
Bush is going to kick that can down the road until he can nail his mistakes on the next president/party.
It is up to us to make sure that people remember just who got us in this mess.
I’ve always said that if you look at history, for the most part Repubs got us into trouble and it took a Dem administration to get us out of it. I just hope the next Democratic president has the wisdom to do it.
TeddySanFran @ 73
I’m just guessing here, but if it were just then a choice between HRC and Edwards, I’d guess the majority would head over to Edwards.
Obama supporters don’t seem to me to be HRC fans, but I’ve been fooled before.
randi’s on now pitching hard for gore to run….
I think we are observing an attempted coup occurring in Pakistan…that should stir things up.
Well, now that I have found myself in the (to me) surreal position of defending Hillary Clinton, I might as well push it all the way: I think there’s going to be a massive shift among Washington Democrats on the Iraq war, and a bunch of candidates currently staking out “centrist” positions are going to get religion on the subject. Remembering the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, only 2 votes against, yet scant years later Dem politicians held opposition to the war as an article of faith. I think something similar is going to happen again; I think the whole lot of them, excepting Kucinich (who was great in the debate,btw), are a lot more anti-war than they are letting on.
Just a gut feeling. Now going to go get back on my meds.
Re-Elect Gore.
http://draftgore.com/
LS @ 10
Citizen pressure works when a light shines on the injustice. The people in Jena would see no problem in their community and would never have led a march for justice. Bell would rot in jail. This came from the outside, just like during the Civil Rights Era. The message here is that all citizens have to look out for injustices throughout the country and heed the cry. Long live the squeaky wheel.
RonD @ 84
I think you are right. They are not trying to fool “us”, they are trying to “catch” the others.
Mad Dogs @ 81
and won’t get fooled again?
“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss,” seems ominously relevant right about now.
One has to wonder why a lot of folks like Obama have not paid a visit to blogs like FDL for a chat or two or three.
I get the impression sometimes that HRC wants to be president almost too much. I really wish I understood her motivations.
Eureka Springs @ 89
Has he been invited?
punaise @ 76
Yep he got carried away with all the pomp and circumstance which demonstrates that he doesn’t think to clearly of consequences or long term
Oklahoma kiddo @ 90
And I sometimes wonder if Obama really wants to be president. I’m not sure about his motivation either.
Elliott @ 91
Don’t know..
Has FDL turned down a request by any of the candidates for a visit?
Eureka Springs @ 89
They are riding the rapids, steering right down the middle of the eddy, it is the only way to get safely down the rapids, and it is the only way to get the votes from the other side that they need to win.
ron@84
if only i could believe that….this reluctance to appear anti-war so as not to be called defeatist dems is why i cant take the dlc dems
LS @ 37
Whatever. The post has some overly strained ideas, like:
Al Gore’s script as to why he’ll be President in 2009 (in a huge landslide) was already written in the Lion King. Al Gore is Simba.
Somehow, I missed that in both Lion King and Inconvenient Truth…
Praedor Atrebates @ 15
I’m afraid I do not understand this reference -
So is Edwards (goddamned craven pro-war-forever crap!).
Could you tell me what you’re referring to? At this point I support Edwards so if you have a reason that I should not I would really appreciate hearing it. Thanks!
OT:
no comment.
Eureka Springs @ 94
of course not!
RonD @ 69
Yes! (Of course, that would probably scare a lot of Ds, too – *g*)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 90
why does ANYBODY want to be president?? I can’t imagine a worse job.
Seems like the only possible explanations are (1) ego gratification; and (2) a real desire to serve the country.
Now…..how does the current crop of candis seem to stack up in those categories?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 90
Perhaps because she’d be the first female president – Bill will long be forgotten but HRC will always be taught in the history classes.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 89
That’d be nice, but,(at least to me),ultimately unimportant. You could explain the siren song of power to me, and I still won’t get it-I simply don’t think that way. I would be surprised if it were anything more complicated than, “If you can, you should.”
If whoever wants the job will simply do a good job, that’s all I ask.
tweety talking a bit of sense now – hmmm wonder what got into him…….?
oddmommy @ 102
Indeed. It’s not looking like a real attractive job just at the moment.
Elliott @ 99
yeah, that Tancredo session was a riot! :~)
punaise @ 99
WTF??
Oklahoma kiddo @ 90
A first woman president. She will be the George Washington of women. Georgette Washington? Schools, libraries, parks, public buildings, ships, money, will have her picture and name on it. Wow! Fame Hollywood can only dream of. Talk about legacy. Poor George can’t compete with this.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 90
Someone here awhile back said of Hillary that she can’t do shit unless she’s elected. So we shouldn’t judge her until and unless we get the chance to see how she behaves in office.
The problem with this view, IMO, is that it applies to any candidate.
LS @ 83
It does seem volatile there. Doesn’t it.
LS @ 25
I’m absolutely sure that Dodd’s reference was to the fact that many say Hillary’s negatives are so high that she’d be the easiest to beat. I equally certain that, viewed thru the lens of the neocons, it would certainly appear that way to them, distorted though it may be. Which is why he couldn’t very well say that in the debate setting, so he had to tap dance.
Black Ops Jungle: The Academy of Military-Industrial-Complex Studies
Ed*ard Teller @ 97
I just heard Randi Rhodes who spent time with Al Gore this weekend. (Shes a friend of Melissa Ethridge)and has been with him several times. She reports that she begged Al to run in person.
Please go to http://www.draftgore.com/. She may know nothing but she’s just eloquent about Al and maybe, just maybe.
Praedor Atrebates @ 15
I take it this also applies to the Republican candidates. Can you describe each Republican in a similar manner so I better understand your position? Thank you.
the two things i hold against obama are:
1) he made a strong speech at the democratic national convention in 2004 and was INSTANTLY anointed the democratic party’s future
by the media (o.k., so it wasn’t his fault).
and
2) no democrat who takes a “bipartisan, uniter” attitude toward the 2009 presidency is going to get my vote.
in fact, that is my biggest worry about clinton.
bush and cheney and their yo-ho-ho gang of pirates have to be brought before the congress and the courts and their decisions and actions closely evaluated.
otherwise, the blueprint for a one-party, authoritarian united states which these guys have generated since january 2001 will some day be implemented in the future by another other right-wing fear-monger (fit newt gingrich for presidential boots).
that said,
i would guess that obama has three problems that no one seems to mention together.
those are:
- he is black
- he has a foreign-sounding name (i don’t care if he was raised in kansas)
and
- he has no national reputation for good works.
that last is very important.
if obama’s work in illinois had been nationally known for twenty years, the first two strikes i mentioned would not loom so large.
but his work has not been nationally known and there is no national image of him absent his presidential aspirations.
that’s thin porridge in these times.
obama may have misinterpreted his own good press in 2004 and since. being well known to political journalists is not the same as being well known to ordinary, busy, poltics-ignoring americans.
I have a hypothetical question…What if HRC wins the nomination, and brings Kucinich aboard for a Clinton/Kucinich ticket…would the netroots support that ticket?
Still for Edwards here.
punaise @ 98
Well there is being principled and then there is being stupid.
PS. Not referring to you punaise!
Meanwhile, from the world of reality impaired, Rice said today that the US must fight global warming exactly like it is fighting the War on Terra.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITI…..index.html
Um.. huh? By what.. invading other countries and FORCING ‘em to use oil more cleanly… or just by taking that oil and using it ourselves?
QuakerGirl @ 115
Ooh, nicely done, QG.
Important Action alert! Have you heard about this story?
Knight High School in Palmdale
http://www.myfoxla.com/myfox/p…..geId=3.2.1
Blub @ 118
Jazus we are done for
FDL has had chats with Chris Dodd and Hillary Clinton in the past. Back in April when Hillary was here, Christy indicated that invitations have been extended to all the candidates:
If any candidates (or their senior advisors) are lurking, I would imagine that the invitation is still open.
Ann in AZ @ 112
I certainly can’t trust Bush’s “sincere” endorsement of a Democratic candidate. When have his motives been anything but insidious?
nomolos @ 117
puncipled to the core…
Peterr @ 123
thanks
I was working at the NM State Fair a week or so ago. Registering voters. HRC was hands down, the most favored candidate besides our Governor.
The only thing I can think is that people don’t know what she’s about, but what she Stands For, I think, is being the first woman president. And THAT is what is most appealing, I really believe. I don’t think people are paying attention to debates or what else she says. . .
At least, that is what I sense.
Blub @ 119
That is such a typical Condi Rice statement – “the sky is blue”. She says nothing and certainly nothing of substance. Go figure the sense of her statement. I just don’t think she is the brightest bulb on the tree. But that does make her a perfect confidant for BushBoy.
To get elected, HRC has to make some sort of deal with shrub, I believe. I suspect the deal has been made.
re HRC as #1: the fact that the Ghoulster occupies that position amongst repub voters ought to tell us something.
What it tells me is that most of the electorate, at least the ones being polled, are ignorant clueless morons — but I could be wrong.
1,610 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Swopa and the Firepup Patriots:
Now that the Chiffon elephant of Barak Obama’s would-be candidacy is shrinking from a bucket full of cold political reality, the Norske has a rant that I hope will be heard as a call to action…remember it was here over 18 months ago that the ol’ Norske called Obama “the black Joe Lieberman”.
Here in the last days of democracy in America, illuminated by the bright fires of a war initiated by my own country engulfing an entire region, deafened by the cries of millions of suffering people enduring the terror and death brought on by by forces from my own homeland or her client state, I can no longer find the energy of hope or the strength of spirit to continue the struggle for the idea of liberty initiated by giants in the earth some 230 years ago. I am beyond angry and the terrible despair I feel for those I am responsible for bringin’ into the world is unrelenting. So consider the following a cry in the wilderness, the futile plea of an old man who sees too clearly and cares too much to go gently into that good night.
We sit precariously on the precipice, on the edge of the unspeakable darkness of history that most recently the people of Germany looked upon and refused to see in 1934. Our country is run by a fascist regime administered through corporate holding companies on behalf of a psychopathic oligarchy. This is an oligarchy whose roots reach back to the 1850’s and the slaveholders who could only sustain their power through extension of that diabolical system and the bankers who could no longer profit from the extension of credit to those slaveholders. Our country, my country, is now a force of evil and death in a world struggling to unite against the threat of environmental extermination brought on in no small part by the economic system imposed by the United States.
None of the pantomime of democracy, the kabuki dance of ersatz representative government means a good God damn anymore. We have only one hope, to find the strength to stand up in the streets and in the halls of power and bang on the closed doors of the assemblies of government (God bless you Code Pink) and bring this charade to a halt. No more fear, no more voting for the corporate toady who is advanced as the lesser of the evils offered by our corporate masters.
We must stop the Democratic Party from smothering the sick body of democracy by rising up and saying “hell no we won’t go anymore”. Direct action, organized and massive demonstrations aimed at the Democratic Party and it’s elected leadership and candidates for leadership are all we have left, and I don’t think we have the collective courage to do what must be done.
FAITH WITHOUT ACTION IS NOTHING BUT SURRENDER!!
QuakerGirl @ 128
when she says stuff like this, what is she really saying?…
“Climate change is a global problem, and we are contributing to it. Therefore, we are prepared to expand our leadership to address the challenge,” she said.”
my bold
oddmommy @ 130
It’s like name recognition is the single most important factor in getting elected.
methinks the same people are being polled over and over cuz the results stay the same – sorry not buying these results….
Jonathan @ 129
Evidence? Links? Anything?
If you were making a nefarious deal, would YOU trust GWB? Come on.
Occam’s Razor says it is far more likely that corporate-owned media has decided that HRC would be good for business.
God bless ya Norske.
Slightly OT, but it appears there are Guiliani links to the attempted electoral vote grab going on in California:
Mysterious Out of State Donors Funding Dirty Tricks Campaign, Giuliani Ties
Norske at 131
My sentiments exactly, but you put them so much better.
You should turn your considerable writing talents to, maybe, popular fiction. Or something. You’re an excellent writer, IMO.
Obama’s problem is that he is afraid of being called “inexperienced”. Whether that fear manifests itself in trying to give the perfect answer or reticence to boldly speak his mind matters little. It is that fear which is slowly choking him.
Listen to your wife, man! Remember the promise you made to your daughters.
What Team Obama needs to re-learn is that leadership is won by imperfect diligence.
To Fern says @120
Yes, Fern. People have to watch out for those little Quaker ladies who man a mean picket line. As they say, stand and speak directly :D
Rayne @ 48
Glenn Greenwald has a post up today about Hillary’s polling people.
Penn has the perfect long-time (now former) partner in Douglas Schoen, whose purpose in life is to argue that Democrats must accommodate George Bush and his radicalism (by, among other things, embracing Joe Lieberman) — and repudiate their embarrassing and rabid base — as much as possible if they want to succeed.
…
In light of the importance of perceptions of polling success for the Clinton campaign, Schoen — ever since he left the Penn firm — has been holding himself out as an independent polling analyst for Rasmussen Reports and other media venues, concealing his long-standing ties to the Clintons and writing one ostensibly objective analysis after the next which has no purpose other than to depict Clinton’s candidacy as an inevitability.
RonD @ 69
Then you want Al Gore, too! Boy would I love a Gore/Dean ticket! Or Gore/Feingold. But nobody scares the shit out of Rethugs than the prospect of Al Gore.
put a fork in obama… he’s done!!
#119 etc
It would have been a lot more impressive if she’d said this before she and her Preznit had
started a warbecome lame ducks.Way too little and way too late.
RonD @ 135
My thinking, FWIW.
Shrub is going to leave office (assuming he does) with a lot of potential legal violations hanging over his, Cheney’s and others heads.
Yet he’ll leave with a lot of intercepts in hand. And probably some great blackmail material.
If Hillary is vulnerable in any way, she’ll be sensitive to all this.
Hence my thought she’d make a deal. Just speculation.
OT but Howie has a post up about BA survey: here
juslin @ 72
I haven’t counted Dodd out! In fact, he’s beginning to look better and better to me.
I don’t understand why people focus so much on domestic policies when looking at presidential candidates. it seems that’s something for a Congressman. The biggest thing I want from a President is 1) good foreign policy and 2) good judgment (i.e. making good decisions) and 3)fiscal responsibility.
Obama really is an inspiring guy if you check out his speeches.
BTW, i don’t know about you guys, but I’m sick of political dynasties…give someone else a shot
QuakerGirl @ 128
hehe… well, perhaps they’ll try to join the two “wars”… with that nifty top secret new intel they’ll doubtless pull out of Condi’s arse in late October.. that Iran-shrub has teamed up with AQ, Kim Jong-Il, Hugo Chavez and Castro’s ghost to secretly cause global warming, from a secret carbon-emitting facility under Natanz :) Joe Lieberman will have the declaration of war all written up and in-hand for DiFi’s signature.
Norske, I agree with every word except these:
I think we do. It takes a long time and a lot of energy to move a massive object.
Noboby has contributed more of either than you. There are people who will find their courage because of your words.
Keeping the faith, and keep up the good work.
punaise @ 77
My sentiments, exactly!
Ann in AZ @ 151
If he were my senator, I’d be a little annoyed – I’d want him to pay some attention to his job, not just campaign.
I have a positive spin on the Electorate. I come to this because of something Jefferson wrote:
This was 48 years after the Declaration of Independence BTW.
Ann in AZ @ 151
And mine!
peanutbutter @ 137
Lantos has the Democratic seat tied up through outside money. For years we tried to get another Democratic candidate, who would have beat the pants off Lantos (skip the literal visual – ugly) but the party shot them down. He cast his votes according to his real supporters, his aides told me, those outside his district. It was worse than having a Republican as my Rep. At least I could do battle of the wits with an opponent.
i-killed-_y-key_oard-
this-o_e-spa_e-_ar-does_’t-work-_otto_-row-of-keys-does_’t-work
this-is-_y-_a_kup-key_oard-that-i-already-killed-a-while-_a_k
the-other-o_e-is-dead-a_d-i-o_ly-spilled-a-little-liquid-i_-it!
da__-(_ussword)
looks-like-i-a_-goi_g-to-_e-a-lurker-for-a-while
shit
take-_are-e_eryo_e-a_d-say-what-i-was-go__a-say-for-_e-will-ya-
at-least-i-_a_-still-read-what-is-_ei_g-said!!!!!!!!!!!!
RonD @ 69
That was so pithy. So spot on.
dmac @ 156
OH NO!
Bustednuckles @ 136
I’m right beside you too.
peanutbutter @ 137
No wonder Bush is so “sure” a Repub will win. I feel that they are going to get caught or back off. But…Spakovsky….
Norske, you break my heart, for you are expressing my feelings exactly. I am brokenhearted for the world we are leaving to our children.
Count me in as one who is ready and willing to stand up, futile or not. If we are going to be overcome, crushed, then fuck it, let’s go out fighting.
unconventional conventionist @ 153
otoh, good Mr Jefferson and his colleagues gave us the Electoral College because, iirc, they didn’t think the common”suffering man” was up to the job of electing the president directly.
And boy do we owe him for that.
Elliott @ 91
More than once
We have to fight on. We have to investigate and expose them. Think how much more we know now than before…keep on keepin’ on.
dmac @ 156
lol, h8 that!
does-a_yo_e-ha_e-a_-i_a_-key_oard-that-they-are_’t-usi_g
that’sapple-key_oard——-”i_a_”-apple—–e_ds-with-a-’k’-sou_d-to-gi_e-a-_lue
i’ll-pay-for-it-ge_erously!!!!!!!!!!
unconventional conventionist @ 153
Um…Jefferson wasn’t even born then…wiki.
looseheadprop @ 163
so far, who has accepted? Hillary and Dodd? Richardson has too right?
looseheadprop @ 163
well if he won’t even face us…
RonD @ 167
mixed up two posts…please disregard this.
dmac: sorry, I’m sure it’s not funny from your perspective, but that was sheer comic relief.
Elliott @ 169
Maybe he’s technologically challenged – can’t type.
mychal bell has been SPRUNG!!! soo something positive has taken place today….
“Democratic sources say Hurth is in line for another lawsuit, this time over his group in Missouri, which is funding the effort to change California’s political landscape.
But Charles Hurth III is also known in some circles for a bizarre incident in a bar years ago — for biting a woman on her behind. After being sued and paying over $27,500 dollars in damages, Hurth said he considered the bite as a sign of affection.”
http://webblog.abc7news.com/20…..ast-c.html
dmac @ 156
Looks like you need a serious vacation.
oddmommy @ 162
Agree. None of the Founders were perfect, nor was/is the Constitution, which is why it was immediately amended.
Today’s situation doesn’t call on Jefferson to amend the Constitution, or restore our liberties. It falls to us. I am just saying I happen to agree with his sentiment about the people.
QuakerGirl @ 172
he could easily dictate
He’s running for Vice President in ‘08 & President in ‘16. He won’t attack Hilary
Elliott @ 176
we don’t need another dictator
juslin @ 173
I’m sorry to rain on this parade but I’ll bet there are those who are biding their time to show Bell who really prevails. It gets really ugly in that part of the country. That is not to dismiss other areas but here people feel it is their right to take the law into their own hands. They don’t think it is wrong – just a good lesson : /
punaise @ 179
oo, that was a poor choice of words wasn’t it? :)
Jonathan @ 145
Presidential pardons will clear those away of those. Bush may even pardon himself. Worst case, the little guy will get writer’s cramp from all the signing. And speaking of signing, there may be a few helpful signing statements along the way. Shrub’s going to be laughing until the day he heads for the Bush Wing of Hell.
uh,if it’s a separate keyboard… 1) spray with WD-40, try keys, wait, try keys again. 2) wipe off, if keys fixed (has worked for me). 3) if keys work but still very messy, rinse with absolute lab alcohol, turn upside down, shake several times, and let dry. (I hear vodka can be substituted for lab alcohol, but not first hand experience with that).
tw3k-lol, h8 that!
a_d-elliot-
_ay_e-i’ll-just-keep-this-o_e-a_d-dri_e-e_eryo_e-kra_y!!!!!!!
i’ll-ha_e-to-spell-a-lot-of-words-wro_g-though-to-_ake-up-for-losi_g-the-_otto_-row-of-keys-a_d-spa_e_ar——a_d-that-would-dri_e-_e-kra_y
that’s-a-thought-though-h___________
gosh-this-is-fu_
dmac
We’ll be thinking of you. Get a new keyboard soon.
If you just killed it with liquid, sometimes they come back after they’ve has a chance to dry out. Ihave had 2 resurect themselves over the years.
Not to mention my stepdaughter who keeps dropping her cell phone in the toilet (don”t ask) You leave it alone to dry out for a couple days and 3 out 3 times-resurrection
qg@180
true that but at least he’s out of jail so i’m glad for he and his family….
Elliott @ 181
But oh so funny :D
Blub @ 168
I remember the Hillary and the Dodd. If there was a RIchardson, I missed it.
But I personally extended an invite to Obama through his NY coordinator (and sometimes speaking surrogate) who seemed very enthusiastic, so I’m guessing the decision not to do it came from the “campaign professionals” cause shortly thereafter they set up their own blogger set up.
Or maybe I am inferring too much.
dmac @ 184
Try a Hair-Dryer, it might work…!!!
QuakerGirl @ 172
Neither can I, as you may have noticed. Doesn’t stop me from swimming inthe Lake
looseheadprop @ 184
you must be flush with pride
looseheadprop @ 185
For cell phones, I find taking the battery out, wiping them down (especially the contacts) and letting them dry seems to prolong the inevitable failure.
Clorox was used in the wiping off of my cell phone that hit a public restroom toilet…damn.
The three that fell in the ocean were toast…one that just got splashed I treated to a fresh water wipe down and got another 4 months.
My husband has been less than thrilled that some of the phones ruined were his, not mine.
This is a little nugget about Kevin Eckery…Ghouliani’s spokesman..re: California…verrrrrry interesting, from back in 1991:
http://www.things.org/~jym/ef/…..apers.html
I wonder if he gets the ten to twenty hits a week I do,you know, the massive traffic like this place.
/snark
looseheadprop @ 190
True, LHP! I’m glad you don’t let it stop ya!!! *g*
_alley-girl-183-
uh,if it’s a separate keyboard… 1) spray with WD-40, try keys, wait, try keys again. 2) wipe off, if keys fixed (has for me). 3) if keys work but still very messy, rinse with absolute lab alcohol, turn upside down, shake several times, and let dry. (I hear vodka can be substituted for lab alcohol, but not first hand experience with that).
yep-_ut-is-i_side-it-keys-did_’t-work-_ouse-did-keys-did_’t
so-got-out-the-old-o_e-a_d-the-_otto_-row-a_d-spa_e_ar-does_’t-work-o_-it-that’s-what-i’_-usi_g
tried-to-fi_-it–thi_g–is-the-godda__-s_rews-would_’t-_reak-free—–goi_g-to-take-it-apart–with-dykes-outside-s_rew-wo_
t-_reak-free
su_ks
dmac @ 184
I’ve spilt cola on the board before and just gave it a good washing in the sink and let it dry.
In order of importance, what are the 5 most critical problems facing America over the next 20 years?
I’m interested, because I figure that’s how much longer I have to go.
dmac, I feel for you sister!
Someone’s probably already made this point– I haven’t had time to read through all of the comments– but once again the air time for each candidate was very different. Remember the Friedman Unit? In presidential debates, a new standard has been born: The Gravel. Candidate got one Gravel unit of air time, and everyone else got multiples of that benchmark. Timmeh gave himself more than 4 Gravels, grabbing more air than any of the candidates. Timmeh also cut Gravel off when he was trying to make a broader point, which I thought was unnecessarily cruel and ham-handed. On the other hand, Hillary got 4 Gravels worth of time, almost as much as Timmeh. Predictably, Kucinich got only about 1.5 Gravels. Details at Sen. Dodd’s website.
I propose a new rule, now that someone has figured out how to do the airtime clock dynamically: whoever the moderator is must always direct his next question to the candidate with the *least* airtime, followed by the candidate with the next least airtime, etc., with the most bloviating candidate going last. That, more than any “lightening” rule, will make the candidates mind their time better.
Bob in HI
looseheadprop-Not to mention my stepdaughter who keeps dropping her cell phone in the toilet (don”t ask) You leave it alone to dry out for a couple days and 3 out 3 times-resurrection
that-is-really-fu__y
Irreversible climate damage leading to catastrophic global climate meltdown.
Attack on Iran leading to a nuclear world war.
Some kind of a freeze on elections, or a fix will do, that keeps this criminal and his henchmen in office.
Top three, anyway. Dog waiting impatiently. Gotta go.
bobschacht @ 200
that’s really a good idea, Bob HI
This is an example of something that makes me uncomfortable with Senator Clinton and others.
New York Senator Hillary Clinton said on Wednesday evening that she supports what she said was the Israel Air Force’s “apparent” action against a nuclear facility in Syria.
Bustednuckles @ 194
I don’t know and I don’t understand his strategy. Jeh Johnson (his NY person) is a former AUSA, truly great guy, most of the NY legal establishment would walk through fire for him. Next to Michelle Obama and Oprah, Jeh is the best person/asset Obama’s got, yet I don’t see a meaningful use of this New york connection.
Which tells me that Obama’s either afraid to engage Hillary on her own turf, or he has been running for VP since the beginning. I really wanted to be an Obama believer. I truly did. I loved the convention speech so much.
And I really get a kick out of Michelle Obama.
But, he seems to be losing steam. And I have never had reassurance about my concerns about the shady dealings with Chicago bad guys.
Makes me sad.
dmac virtual keyboard
Elliott @ 202
reverse instant run-off (of the mouth)
Jonathan @ 198
Hmmm…
1) Extricating us out of Iraq!
2) Clean up the DoJ/Executive…
3) Universal Healthcare(Single Payer)
4) Shore up Soc. Security
5) Repeal Nafta/Cafta et.al…
Damn, gotta get Global Warming in there somewhere…!!! ;-)
The first thirty minutes of last nights debate were probably the best questions I have heard in this presidential campaign so far. Now, if Timmeh would just get Cheney to allow him to ask more questions like that on Sundays..)
i-feel-like-whe_-you-ka_e-fro_-the-de_tist-a_d_-so_eo_e-says-so_thi_g-i_porta_t-a_d-your-_outh-is-_u__-a_d-you-_a_’t-reply
it’s-fu__y
a_yo_e-ha_e-a_-’i_a_’-key_oard—that-is-’eye_a_’-key_oard
Elliott @ 203
It REALLY is.And I like calling it a gravel unit. We should be pushing the equal time thing for the next debate.
Edwards is applying for public financing–which means all this blogospheric enthusiasm for him has not translated into financial competitiveness. If Obama’s so tepid and uninspiring, why is he crushing Edwards in small donations?
What happens to all this sentiment if/when Obama wins Iowa and Edwards drops out?
Jeebus, It’s only September, folks.
Neither Edwards nor Clinton have any meaningful edge in political experience(Clinton’s more polished/programmed, but that’s about it).
Edwards’ actual record in office ultra-populist/progressive.
But, whatevs. Enjoy your venom-baths.
oddmommy @ 130
I think not. Come to that middle of America they always talk about about and stop ten people of voting age at random. Ask them who their U.S. Representative is.
If they don’t know ask them something easy, like how many Congresspeople there are in the House of Representatives. No?
Throw them a bone, how many U.S. Senators do we have? You’ll buy into ignorant & clueless in a big way…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 204
Yeah she had all her bushCo talking points in order :/
Can’t come up with a solution until you define the problem. Heuristics.
Jonathan @ 198
The planet
Cheney
Ghouliani
Cheney
Jeb Bush
I’m sorry to say this, but Senator Obama’s campaign was more of personality cult rather than actual performance. Now after the actions of the of the Democratic Party to date, “I’m not ready to make nice” (thanks Dixie Chicks)
Elliott @ 203
Thanks!
But the networks would hate it. I wonder if they told timmeh in advance to give extra air to the top 3.
Bob in HI
New post upstairs
Jonathan @ 198
1)Sustainable energy.
2)National Healthcare.
3)Undoing the corporo-fascist paradigm.
4)Undoing the police-state apparatus.
5)Peacefully drawing down the Empire.
mike in dc @ 212
Mike, I don’t know for sure that you’re responding to my post rather than something in the comments, but I’m certainly not venomous toward Obama. I would love for him to be the nominee, but as an objective observer I’m going to be honest and say why I don’t think his campaign is going to get him there. An extremely good friend of mine in Chicago worked on Obama’s Senate campaign, and she’s disappointed, too.
And yes, of course it’s only September. All the more reason to criticize him now… or would you prefer everyone second-guess him after it’s too late?
ki__o-at-175- Looks like you need a serious vacation.
yes-i-do-
_ut-i-a_-getti_g-ready-for-k_ee-surgery-a_d-do_’t-_eed_to-_e-deali_g-with-a-key_oard_right-_ow-that’s-what-_akes-it-so- fu__y
so-does-a_yo_e-ha_e-a-key_oard-for-a_-i_a_-
Hey Swopa thanks!
_aroly_ur_a_at171-dmac: sorry, I’m sure it’s not funny from your perspective, but that was sheer comic relief.
it-was-fu__y-fro_-here-too
Well, one of these guys has to go down. We need one strong anti-Hillary candidate if we’re going to stop her coronation. My ideal would be a candidate that combines the attributes of Obama and Edwards: Obama for opposing the war from the beginning and the excitement he causes; Edwards for his passionate advocacy on behalf of the have-nots and his willingness to fight hard.
But I’m worrying about the consequences of a three-person race if Hillary maintains her lead.
Prairie Sunshine @ 28
I will NOT vote Democratic NO MATTER WHAT. I am of the Arthur Silbur school of thought on the Democrats. They are NOT being defeated, outmaneuvered, tricked, hoodwinked, or blackmailed. EVERYTHING they are doing is with malice aforethought. EVERYTHING that they are doing is fully their desire. They are not stopping anything, not TRYING to stop any of the madness because they are in favor of the whole mess as a party. A few well-meaning and true members like Kucinich, Kennedy, or Feingold do NOT change the overarching fact that the Democrat party IS run by the Liebermans. The actual reigns of control, the ONLY reigns that matter because of the results that ensue, are those of the Liebermans of the Democrat party. A few good apples amongst a HUGE batch of rotten, complicit apples does NOT redeem the party. They are NOT what they are making themselves out to be nor what you WANT them to be. That is stone-cold fact.
I will NOT “work within the party” and vote Democrat no matter what they do or don’t do. The lessor of two evils is no evil at all. You cannot compromise with the devil, the devil always wins. Hillary IS part of the Liebermans of the Democrat party. She IS exactly what her votes say she is: a warmonger, pro-torture, pro-unitary executive, pro-spying…the whole ball of earwax. She is irredeemable regardless of who her running mate is.
She doesn’t get my vote under ANY circumstances. Vote Hillary, vote Guiliani, the same result ensues: the Iraq war and the coming war with Iran goes apace. FISA remains gutted. Rendition continues (Hillary’s HUSBAND created the entire “extraordinary rendition” program!). No doubt, “free speech zones” will continue too. NO DIFFERENCE!
Precisely why I won’t vote for him in the primary. I want an OPPOSITION leader. Bipartisanship assumes both sides are willing to play. And, as 7 years has shown us, Republicans only play ball with themselves.
I like Obama a lot, and I will vote for him. I believe he threatens the “system” and that no one who is part of the “system” really wants him to win…which would include a lot of the media who declared Clinton the winner right away. I know little about how the polls work but does anyone know if they can be rigged. I believe Edwards says the system is rigged, and I think I agree.
Praedor Atrebates @ 15
You’re kidding right? The guy who said ‘no troops, no money, no excuses’ and you say he’s ‘craven’?
Bizarro.
I think Edwards’ idea is simply to withdraw from the civil war, train Iraqi troops and if suitable fight any al Qaeda types around (few of those). I wouldn’t be surprised if he just backed off and used some time to assess the world before committing to anything.
What’s wrong with keeping options open? Wouldn’t you want to have options if you were a new president just going into office and not really knowing what kind of mess Shrub has left?
‘craven’? Heh, go watch the Republican debates.
Praedor Atrebates @ 15
I just want to say that this is the best site on the web, and I am voting for Clinton without reservation. We need 70 Senate seats (not counting Liebermilch) and Obama and Edwards just ain’t up to the job of excavating 8 years of crusted crap. Hillary is. I wish people would leave Gore alone and let him do his thing. Why push him into being President? He, not some butthead like Dorgan or Alexander, would be at Clinton’s side and of service to the country and the world.
michael @ 47
I noticed that during and at the end of the OJ trial. The racial divide was amazingly big and it surprised me. Yeah, we’re getting there, but it’s gonna take more time.
Remember, we’ve still got Alito and Roberts and Scalia and Thomas to get past to recover from their ’separate and unequal is fair’ doctrine for education.
CTuttle @ 208
Your list indicates there are at least two ways of looking at the question: order of things to do or significance.
(tentative) order,
1. out of Iraq
[ maybe catch up on legislation Bush has vetoed from this Congress ]
2. health care reform begin
3. NOLA work
4. mortgage problem if it’s there
5. 9/11 review
6. al Qaeda?
7. continue getting rid of nukes
8. CAFE standards
9. International Trade reform
10. corporate retirement security
Geez, the list is very very long.
Significance:
1. Save world from carbon
2. save world from nukes
3. save people from wars
4. save people from disease
5. save people from starvation
etc.
You know, for the kids!
Joe Buck @ 225
It certainly IS a crazy race with 3 leaders.
C’mon folks….did anyone really think an “articlate” truly African/American would be allowed to win the nomination?
Does anyone really believe someone with the consistent integrity like Dennis Kucinich would be allowed to win the nomination?
Does anyone really believe someone like Edwards who declares it IS class warfare would be allowed to win the nomination?
(speaking of Edwards…golly Kos and mydd are really pissed he is opting for federal funds)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3mi-bKtDGA
…but of course we will….
I will add again…as someone who lives within walking distance of the 08 convention…
It Takes OVER 50%……..
Swopa @ 221
I’m of the opinion that “Team Obama” sees this thing as a marathon, not a sprint. He wins by being the viable alternative. If/when Edwards loses Iowa, he is toast, and his voters will move on to their second choice, which is likely to be Obama. If Edwards drops out before Iowa, which is beginning to look like a real possibility, then Obama immediately makes up about half the polling gap nationally, and probably surges into a clear lead in Iowa. The media narrative shifts accordingly–”Can Hillary hold off Barack?”
The buzz is that the Obama ground game is developing into something formidable and unprecedented. Obviously we will find out early next year.
Would I like him to make bolder statements? Sure. And there’s still time to do that. Criticize Hillary more directly? Absolutely. But perhaps they think letting Edwards do it to her for a while will give them an impression of whether it works or not. Generally the nastiest hits on the frontrunner happen in the last 4-6 weeks before Iowa–I’d expect her to lose some ground there and nationally in that period, partially because of negative media and partially because at least one of her opponents is buying ads and making speeches slamming her and her record.