I’ve just finished reading Dan Rather’s complaint against CBS, Viacom et. al. and I have to say, it really got me going. There’s never been anything quite like it, and it has the potential to lay bare the sleazy, compromised relationship between the White House and corporate media in a dramatic and oh-so-entertaining way.
Sidney Blumenthal seems to agree:
If the court accepts his suit, however, launching the adjudication of legal issues such as breach of fiduciary duty and tortious interference with contract, it will set in motion an inexorable mechanism that will grind out answers to other questions as well. Then Rather’s suit will become an extraordinary commission of inquiry into a major news organization’s intimidation, complicity and corruption under the Bush administration. No congressional committee would be able to penetrate into the sanctum of any news organization to divulge its inner workings. But intent on vindicating his reputation, capable of financing an expensive legal challenge, and armed with the power of subpoena, Rather will charge his attorneys to interrogate news executives and perhaps administration officials under oath on a secret and sordid chapter of the Bush presidency.
In making his case, Rather will certainly establish beyond reasonable doubt that George W. Bush never completed his required service in the Texas Air National Guard. Moreover, Rather’s suit will seek to demonstrate that the documents used in his “60 Minutes II” piece were not inauthentic and that he and his producers acted responsibly in presenting them and the information they contained — and that that information is true. Indeed, no credible source has refuted the essential facts of the story.
The complaint reads like a potboiler, and throws into broad relief the way the GOP bullies and intimidates its enemies while its friends wallow in spin. If Rather can rip the lid off that at this critical juncture when the fourth estate has fallen down so badly just at the time we need them most, it may be the crowning achievement of his journalistic career.
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zed?
Yes, Dan.
Jane!
Hi Jane. I do hope that this case goes forward. Heard rumors that Rather plans to call GWB to testify. Now THAT will be something to see.
YAY JANE! You go Dan!
A Twofer!
Jane, (or anyone else) is the complaint available online?
Bush will be subpoened. He won’t respond, of course.
Discovery will be tampered with and/or not forthcoming or non-existent.
Somebody will squeal.
Rather probably already has something big or he wouldn’t be doing this, and maybe this will crack the nut.
Good on him! Go for it!
TexBetsy @ 4
If for no other reason, hearing someone who can speak with a real Texas accent going against the fraud.
Maybe after all of our worry and fretting Dan Rather will be the person that comes through for this democracy. What a coup!
I’ve always thought Dan Rather was set up. I smell me some Rove.
Good one, Jane!
I just got through reading the Blumenthal piece 15 minutes ago. That, plus FDL’s own piece by David Niewert, shows that there was serious fuckery going down. All thanks to Dan for not slinking off into retirement, but for bearding the lion in its lair instead. May he live long, and reveal more of the truth that will set us free!
Didn’t Dan always use to end his news broadcasts with the word “Courage!”? He’s got it, and he’ll need more of it! Is there any way for us to let him know of our enCOURAGEment?
Bob in HI
Why don’t we invite Dan here to have a chat?
Ok, whose got the contacts? Jane? Would Arianna lend a hand?
TexBetsy @ 4
Oh, don’t make the Decider unsheath his ’signing statement’ pen…You know, the one that when you tilt it just so Jeff Gannon’s thong ‘magically’ disappears…
;>)
darkblack @ 14
You are so bad. Good.
darkblack @ 14
Don’t you dare draw that image on your computer DB!
OT: Glenn Greenwald has more on Hillary’s shills (and potential future advisors):
See: http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html
From your lips to God’s ear, Sweet Jane.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again:
George Bush was too yellow to fight.
That’s mighty harsh. But I think that’s what needs to be said…..publicly, and often.
Ghostman
PDF – the complaint:
http://blogs.trb.com/news/poli…..can002.PDF
Go, Dan! If nothing else, it might save me dental bills from tooth-grinding every time I hear the wingnut talking point about how the document “looked like it was created in Microsoft Word,” the one piece of “evidence” that was conclusively proven false.
Just because the cheeto-eaters think Microsoft invented proportional type doesn’t make it true!
Valley Girl @ 7
Here’s a pdf of the complaint, hosted by the Wall Street Journal.
Thank you, Jane. I agree this has to be kept in the spotlight. That will be our responsible as the people seeking the truth and demanding sunshine on Bush’s record. We know they will do everything they can to destroy Rather. It worked in the past. But with the people behind him, a civil case may just work. It is amazing what people power can do!
hayduke @ 11
That’s what Blumenthal claims.
Bob in HI
Dan Rather saw a version of the Zapruder film on, like, November 23, 1963, from which he described stuff that didn’t appear in subsequent versions.
I support Rather completely. The GOP has hated this guy since he bested Richard Nixon way back. “No, sir, Mr. President. Are you?”
ahhhhhhhhhh jane
d’ya think so? dan is being painted now as an old kook – amazing innit – went from sugar to shit in nano-seconds…..
George W. Bush is a crook and a coward. And Dan Rather knows it.
Oh you just gotta love it. I used to watch Rather as a kid, every night, reporting from Vietnam. I’m glad he’s still in the trenches.
Mad Dogs @ 13
You might try going thru Mark Cuban. Cuban keeps a blog and is very active on his blog. Cuban now employs Rather.
Ghostman
I have no doubt that Rather will prevail.
I thought, at the time, that Rather would eventually go public, with devastating results to the powers that be.
It’s a wonderful irony on another level, too. Network news is so consumed with egotistical personalities as anchors (instead of just reading the effing news like they do on BBC), and now it looks to bite them in the ass.
Go Dan!
it’s going to be veryyyy interesting watching how this lawsuit plays out…. MSM solidly against him with their well-connected and high powered attorneys…..yes indeedy dan is in for a real ride!!
Peterr @ 22
thx much, Peterr.
And, Mad Dogs, I very much doubt that Rather would be willing to tip his hand by appearing on FDL or any blog prior to the court case.
Ghostman @ 19
Ghostman,
Many ducked Viet Nam.
Others got drafted.
Some, like me, volunteered.
I disrespect shrub.
But I know he isn’t alone.
If Bush is called- he may be forced to testify – the gooper surpreme court established that with Clinton..Sometimes it doesn’t take long for somethin that looked really good ta come back and bite ya in the ass.
now having had a laugh at this… c’mon legal types here… will this suit see the inside of a courtroom??
Bush being forced to testify under oath and being questioned about the TANG. (evil chuckle)
Ironic retribution on a grand scale.
The World Famous- “case of the pepperoni blow job” is still makin news.
from Blumnethal’s piece:
rwcole @ 39
SPEW!
WTF?
Maybe sometime we’ll get the whole ugly fuckin story about Bush and the national guard.. There must be some out there who know it.
What really repulses me is the fact that George W. Bush used his father’s connections to go to the front of the line to join the reserves. How many “regular” guys tried this? And because of the huge wait, ended up dead grunts in ‘Nam? Disgusting.
Ghostman @ 30
Do you mean this place: blog maverick – the mark cuban weblog?
The current post there is all about his “Talk about a range of emotions and a humbling experience… as he’s hopping from foot to foot awaiting his appearance on “Dancing With The Stars”.
Are you sure this guy is all there? *g*
On a vaguely related note (news anchor is the connection), my local news radio station has in the past year or so unfortunately started having Fox News “journalists” on to comment a few times a day. I normally switch it off, but today I just had to listen to the train wreck.
So did you know that the Democratic leadership is being urged to stop the war by just never bringing any of the funding bills up for a vote, so it’ll run out of money? It must be true, Brit Hume said so, and he wouldn’t lie, right?
Feh. Time to write to them again and tell them I immediately switch stations whenever they have these propagandists on…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
What was the question?
I’ve only read the first couple of pages of the Complaint, and I’m already wondering why Mary Mapes didn’t join as a co-Plaintiff.
Jonathan @ 35
Whether drafted or volunteered, at least they showed up and went overseas. As to the ones that ran off to Canada, at least they don’t go strutting around about their so-called bravery; and they don’t deny that they ran off to canada.
I stand by my comment. It’s the way to attack the shadow of a man now in the WH. Sometimes, my beloved Democrats are just too sensitive over hurting someone’s feelings. Jonathon, I imagine there were plenty of times when you were scared shitless….quite understandable. But, at least you showed up.
Ghostman
1969
got drafted — sorry, bad luck
got a deferment — good for you
had an in with the draft board — what a dude
volunteered for the Nam — well, good fucking luck
4F — hey, great
For once in his selfish, spoiled and miserable existance, George W. Bush, thanks to Rather, may be exposed for exactly what he is. Oh… you’re going to get your legacy all right, Mr. Prez.
TexBetsy @ 46
Nixon to Rather: “Are you running for something?”
So if deposed- would Clusterfuck tell the truth or lie? and if he lies under oath– is it impeachment time?
Man, it’s a doozy. They allegedly created an independent “panel” to investigate the authenticity of the documents, etc., all hand-picked Busheviks…they allegedly never met with the expert about the authenticity, who went on to say that the documents appeared authentic and that the events surely happened…
Heh.
Valley Girl @ 34
He’s already appeared on Larry King sans attorneys, so why not here?
Dan appears to be mounting a PR campaign to some extent and an FDL chat might fit right in.
rwcole @ 52
A), lie, and
B) yes.
TexBetsy @ 46
It was at a tense news conference. Prez. Nixon asked Rather if “he was running for anything”.
Watch Obama live stream at New York City rally:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/nyclive
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
Personally, if I had been an American male of military age during the Vietnam era, I would have done whatever it took to avoid military service. It was a bad, ugly, pointless war.
What I do have trouble with is, given that past, GW’s enthusiasm for sending other people to fight bad, ugly, pointless wars.
Oh, yea! I’ve always loved tortious interference with contract – even had a chance to throw that one around once!
Go, Dan!
Mad Dogs @ 54
Yes, but Larry King is no attorney, either. Christy, Looseheadprop, and others around here are — and that’s a big, big difference.
rwcole @ 52
So if deposed- would Clusterfuck tell the truth or lie? and if he lies under oath– is it impeachment time?
hasn’t this question come up before? with some other president? Damn, what was that guy’s name…?
RonD @ 51
There was instant shock then a slow simmering seethe to this very day. All on national TV.
Sha at 59
Are you a lawyer?
Glad you are bringing more attention to this Jane. It’s true this case may blow the lid off of how the MSM not only goes along with special interest but fires anyone who challenges those special interest.
Let’s hope that Dan Rather is able to let the light into the darkest recesses of the MSM and show the world just who they really answer to.
Nixon had a tactic he used to try and unsettle reporters known to be hostile. He would call on them at a presser, then ask them something they couldn’t possibly be ready for, before letting them ask their question. Rather drilled it right back at him. They’ve hated him ever since.
Aside from everything else that would be grrrrreat about this, I have a personal stake in it. Scuse me, while I kiss the sky!
Ghostman @ 48
And they don’t talk to real soldiers about how they really wish they could go fight in Iraq, but they’re too old now!
AP – Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Thursday he’s inclined to approve an Army proposal to spend nearly $3 billion extra to accelerate the expansion of its active-duty force.
Mad Dogs @ 44
Yes, that’s the one. As to Cuban…sigh. He’s something of a “boy genius” who sold his internet invention (I think it was streaming audio?) to…..Yahoo?….for like, a Billion dollars. true! I think his old company was named Broadcast.com….I think.
Ghostman
My congresscritter, Brian, voted in favor of letting kids die rather than having the govt. pay for their health insurance. His argument is that he ain’t gonna let no illegal immigrants get free health care, He is also letting me know that he is the co-sponsor of a bill making illegal immigration a felony- among other things.
Brave, brave Sir Brian- Dildo!
The other thing that is so prevalent about this case, for example, and Congress, etc., is their incredible “fear” of the administration. What the heck is causing the fear? There must be some kind of blackmail going on or something…what else could it be? It cannot be money. It cannot be publicity. It must be rooted in something else.
Judy Woodruff on the NewsHour interviewing Steny Hoyer. She does a pretty good imitation of Dana Perino. “Are you going to give the President what he needs to support the troops?” Hoyer actually comes across as quite reasonable in his criticisms of the war. There was a time when the NewsHour was on the cutting edge of news reporting. Now it veers between irrelevant and sad.
darkblack @ 14
Thanks for the no visual on that, DB!
Go Dan Rather!!
JayT, sent you an email. Thanks to the Firedogs for getting us in contact!
So begins chapter One of the current president’s legacy, “Dubya: The Inexplicable Rise and Inexorable Decline of the War Criminal Bush the Lesser”.
OT plea for a little help – this diary needs some recommendations.
Fini, who is doing incredible work for the Barry Welsh campaign, says:
we are announcing a telethon for Barry taking place on BlogTalkRadio this Sunday night hosted by ClammyC and ThereIsNoSpoon from Heading Left and DKos fame, Brian Keeler is gonna call in and so is Jane Hamsher and we are gathering other guests. We’re gonna have an auction of memorabilia and other items and more.
Joh
Would appreciate the help. thanks.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/27/155758/239
From Howie Kurtz, completely off the record , naturally:
In Georgetown, the chattering classes are nervous.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
What was that?
any idea on the time frame for this case? what happens next? what might we look forward to? are depositions public?
jayt @ 76
done!
Loo Hoo. @ 78
See a couple of comments above perhaps re:this ;0)
LS @ 71
fear of the tapped phone, the read mail, the surreptitious search, the camps out west, “enemy combatant” status, a military commission, blackwater, martial law, false-flag terror, faithless public officials, Gitmo, an oppo research campaign…
Fear is a rational reaction to this situation.
selise at 79
questions about non-violence
what to do if you are Viet Cong facing a U.S. propped-up government
what to do if you are russians facing Nazis in the spring of 1941
Oklahoma kiddo @ 68
He’s got an extra $3 billion?
I have high hopes but it sure feels like Dan’s gone from sixty minutes to sands through an hour glass..
Jane,
The good news is that, unless it’s in one of those districts where Gonzo installed a “loyal Bushie”, the judiciary can’t get its filthy fingers on this case. Booyah!
Wonder how many reserves and guard units are re-upping currently?
Loo Hoo. @ 84
He’s already got a military bigger than the rest of the world’s combined and he needs more?
Jonathan @ 83
As Gandhi, MLK, and Mandela proved, Civil Disobedience works! Let’s give it a try first…!!!
Twisted Martini @ 74
Hey Twisted – don’t think it got through:
foster7833 at yahoo dot com.
I don’t begrudge Bush for doing what he could to get out of Vietnam. Many, many people did.
But then his real character piles up: he doesn’t complete his service; he hides behind the military; he slanders people who actually served; and he uses the military as scapegoats for his failed policies.
I think LS@71 is on the right track. I think the press have been thoroughly punked via misuse of the national security apparatus, hiding behind the ‘uncovering contacts’ excuse, and this was the focus of the bedside bum rush on Ashcroft.
That being said… Rather now has nothing to lose. He can afford the lawyers. He’s got a wedge straight into the center of this (and I bet that Heyward d00d is going to be seen violating every journalistic principle before the end of this).
And I’m going to make popcorn.
Hi, pups!
If anybody cares, Mark Cuban is a bit, umm, quirky? Egotistical? Power-mad?
Here in San Antonio we know him as the owner of our in-state NBA rival, the Dallas Mavericks. I don’t recall what his company was, either, but it was something high-tech, internet-related, something like that.
He’s fairly young, maybe early ’40’s.
We love to hate him here, because since he’s owned the Mavs they’ve become dangerous to our continued NBA dynasty. *g*.
However, I went to a Spurs-Mavs game some years ago, and he was all over the Mavs section of the audience (we were sitting behind it), chatting with the Dallas fans, shaking hands, having a good time. Overall impression – energetic! I’d have to say he is, umm, not your ordinary rich guy.
selise- OT linky for you here.
CT,
do we wait like sheep for a takeover?
and then act like Ghandi?
The Rather case may provide a road map of how Bush has manipulated the media. In the case of CBS it was an FTC ruling that they badly needed that became the blackmail chip…threatening to deny a ruling unless CBS pulled an embarassing story is- well- embarassing- one would think that it might also be illegal.
tejanarusa @ 92
I’m a native of Dallas….I think you pretty much accurately describe him!
Ghostman
CTuttle @ 89
I have to agree with a caveat I once heard about that…non-violence works when you’re dealing with an adversary that cares about its public/international image. If it doesn’t – not so much. Viz. –Burma/Myanmar the last couple of days. Monks seemed to be succeeding…but the Myanmar generals have no interest in the world’s good opinion.
Not that I think we’ve reached that point here, yet.
god-i-wish-i-had-the-power-a_d-the-i_telle_t-to-take-these-_other-fu_kers-dow_
_ut-si__e-i-do_’t-i’_-glad-that-da_-rather-does
go-da_-i-hope-you-get-what-you-wa_t
(i_-_ase-you-_issed-it-a_d-are-wo_deri_g-why-i’_-posti_g-i_heiroglyphs-_y-key_oard-died_
Hi Loo Hoo!
Ghostman @ 96
Thanks, Ghostman!
dmac @ 98
707!
Civil Disobedience and Witnessing: There are small groups of citizens around the country who consistently meet a particular time and day often in front of a Federal Building or in front of their Rep’s office.
Some since before going into Afghanistan. Rain, shine, heat, freeze they are there – standing to witness.
In San Francisco, there is a group that’s been meeting in front of the Federal Building every Thursday at noon. Another in San Mateo on El Camino Real I think on Saturday (sorry don’t know times) in front of Tom Lantos’ office. Often these people have candlelight vigils. Their visual presence brings attention to thousands of people in their area.
Capt. Underpants at91
yeah
Jonathan @ 83
In situations like those, people die. Not really worth arguing about whether more or less if they’d been non-violent in their resistence – depends too much on how sick a fuck you’re facing.
But as soon as the resistance shoots back, the oppressors have the excuse to treat the whole of the populace as resistance (resistors don’t have uniforms so everyone’s suspect).
Non-violence works best when it is televised (or at least web-cammed). If it gets out to a global audience, you’ve won. Ghandi was very careful in planning his protests and made very sure the story would get out. Same with MLK.
Jonathan @ 94
No! We pro-actively head it off, like your participation in the DC march… We hold their feet to the fire…! All my congress critters have heard from me personally, I’ve only been disappointed by one vote from Akaka, (still waiting for an explanation…)other than that they’ve voted properly!!!
Dan Rather on Larry King
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVM7Wdkmogc
Have you seen these pieces that Rather did on independent military contractors in Iraq ?
http://www.blogmaverick.com/20…..-it-right/
Civil disobediance involves doin something illegal- gettin arrested- and goin to jail…You have to be willing to be beaten with batons, bitten by dogs, and gassed. It’s not exactly like holdin a candle.
I’m on a conference call with Hillary’s camp and Hillary will be on soon. No door to door, it social/family networking.
Both Wes Clark and Jerry McNearney have emailed me this afternoon all upset about Rush limpdic* calling some soldier phony.
What is this reverse moveon?
Hi Jonathan!
rwcole @ 107
I’m there…!!! *g*
Eureka Springs @ 109
From TPM.
Have you seen “Dan Rather reports”?
some great coverage more than you see on the MSM
http://www.hd.net/iran.html
Do we know the results of yesterdays poll to see if we remove McNinny and others from Blue America? I haven’t seen any.
“Severe Penalties for early withdrawal”
Clustefuck.
Loo Hoo at 110
Hi!
Thanks for your “hi”!
You are one of the insiders here.
I’m honored.
She’s on thanking us. Challenges, failed policies of Bush/Cheney. Most Californians haven’t voted in a primary. Introducing California leaders. Absentee ballots start January 7th. Yikes!
Bill Clinton to be on Keith. Has it already been shown in some other area of the country?
One of my best friends was a whistle blower and started a Qui Tam suit. After the torturous years of delaying stalling and BS it was set to go to trial in PA. And then for years it never got on the court docket. Someone made that happen or not happen. Judges are corrupted.
I’d be surprised if this suit sees the light of a court room.
If there is any chance of airing all that shit in public the money will come flying at Rather with a non disclosure agreement.
If this suit can blow open the BS of the networks and their corruption, it’s way more than a civil tort it could be criminal and worthy of license suspension and who knows what else will be revealed. I am sure all these shits are up to their eyeballs in wrong doing.
But you’d never know would you looking at katie.
There were also people who stood up, said no to the draft and went to jail because of their convictions.
Hill said goodbye, back to Keith.
teja_arusa-at-101-707!
yeah-it’s-kra_ki_-_e-up———-i-hope-to-dri_e-_a_y-people- kra_y-_y-the-ti_e-that-i-get-a-_ew-key_oard
a_yo_e-ha_e-a_-’i_a_’-key_oard-they-are_’t-usi_g
Twain @ 114
Not yet. Howie posted a bit of info this afternoon.
rwcole @ 107
That is why there are two ways to go: Civil Disobedience and Witnessing. CD you agree to get arrested. Witness you obey all the laws but protest as well as witness what is happening to those being arrested.
If you have a family or are a single parent or needed by your family or a life threatening illness, it is wise to not commit CD but you can be just as effective as a witness.
Also, it is wise to prepare and train for CD. Many groups insist on training before someone commits to CD. In the end, it is up to the individual. MLK trained for CD.
raven @ 120
raven,
i respect those who
burned their draft cards
or went to Canada
or went to jail
or volunteered
but not those who gamed the system
Cool, Webb on KO, with Bill coming up!!! 8-)
Eureka Springs @ 109
more on dKos too.
The most wanted man in Iran “Abdulmalik Rigi”
this is a Dan Rather report
Some brutal footage
http://www.hd.net/iran.html
Let me see if I can get this straight. Last November’s elections were about getting out of Iraq. And most Americans are sick of the Iraq fiasco. But last night Obama, Edwards and HRC would not commit to getting out of Iraq by 2013?
I need some help related to Tauscher’s (CA-10) MoveOn vote.
I have a meeting with an official in Tauscher’s Walnut Creek District office next week.
My post about it here.
Would appreciate any help with the questions I’ve posted there.
Also, any advice about message themes to make clear much appreciated.
Thanks.
Jonathan @ 125
Very well said.
Unlike the Chimp, Dan was not afraid to go to Nam.
Webb on KO, voting for Kyl-Lieberman is comparable to voting for AUMF in Iraq…calling the Iran Rev Guards a terrorist org is a dangerous precedent…If the Iranian guards are running operations against American troops, that is an act of war…very dangerous to politicize the military.
I’d love to see one debate devoted to just foreign policy issues. Of course we aren’t going to get that.
Eureka Springs @ 123
Thanks.
Twain @ 114
VG posted this in the last thread:
Valley Girl @ 146
Twain @ 114
Howie has an interim report that was up earlier: here is link at DWT
jayt @ 47
Rather is not getting any younger, so I hope someone else joins in – just in case. I suspect the case will take a long time. Eric Boehlert has an article over at Media Matters that indicates the documents that should be in Bush’s file but that have not been produced so far. As with the more recent cases of missing e-mails, the tactic seems to be to produce some but not all; media does not pursue where the missing ones are. Another vast Republican conspiracy to cover-up and stonewall?
1,610 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Patriots:
“If Rather can rip the lid off that at this critical juncture when the fourth estate has fallen down so badly just at the time we need them the most, it may be the crowning achievement of his journalistic career.”
Three things:
First, the fourth estate has never stood up for the populous against the power of the rulers of the corporate state unless it is driven by a faction of the ruling elite that is threatened by the actions of another faction. That is, the fourth estate has never challenged corporate power except to represent the interests of a faction in a split in the ruling elite.
Second, in order for Rather’s suit to succeed in “rip(ping) the lid off” the rotten core of American political economy, the IDEA of the rule of law must be alive somewhere in the body of American political institutions and as we saw in the Scooter Libby trial and the acquiescence to the commutation of sentence, there is no life left in the idea of the rule of law anywhere in the American legal system.
Finally, dear Sister Jane, this suit should not be about “the crowning achievement of his journalistic career”, rather it should be about the restoration of the IDEA of justice and a challenge to the entrenched power of evil not the rehabilitation of celebrity for a broken down headline reader.
For all three of these reasons, I believe that this suit is goin’ nowhere faster’n ya ken say Enron and hangin’ chads.
KEEP THE FAITH BUT DON’T WAIT FOR THEM TO GIVE IT BACK!!
well, snap!
Article @ SF Examiner.com (thought they merged with the Chron?)
scroll down to the bottom for audio
raven @ 120
Raven – that is the history in my marriage. It takes a terrible toll. I don’t recommend jail especially as a political prisoner. There are some nasty groups in prison who are encouraged to get the unAmerican. I also visited Friends and friends who were imprisoned for CD. Still support the CD prisoners. They get it from the inside and from the outside.
Function before form. Substance over style. That’s the politics I crave.
Keith with Bill-
Bill says that Hill did well with a “very tough interviewer” by saying that Hillary was great when she said she disagreed with Bill on the one in a million chance of knowing someone knows something that will blow up Americans.
Jonathan @ 83
first a disclaimer – i’m no expert, just a student of nonviolence.
a nonviolent campaign is, in someways, like a military campaign, in that it requires strategic planning, logistics, training and organization. so, if you are expecting a simple magical answer, i don’t think there is one. i’ll just try to give some info that can get you started.
as for your examples… why not something similar to the danish response to the nazis? or better yet, there’s been some serious study of nonviolent civilian based defense by gene sharp. i’d start by reading some of these, which i haven’t read yet, but i’ve read other books by gene sharp and he’s great – the best strategic nonviolent theorist i’ve found.
you might even want to start with more of an introduction of nonviolence. if so, i’d recommend Power and Struggle (Politics of Nonviolent Action, Part 1) by Gene Sharp. if you’re feeling really ambitious, you could then read parts 2 & 3 and then Waging Nonviolent Struggle: 20th Century Practice And 21st Century Potential by Gene Sharp
there’s actually a field of study in nonviolence. another good source, although quite different than gene sharp is michael nagler at berkley (nagler studies principled nonviolence, sharp studies strategic nonviolence – yes, there are sub-fields). last year, nagler’s 2 nonviolence classes at berkeley were webcast. i followed along and found it very interesting, although if you are more pratical minded and don’t like the spiritual aspect of nagler’s work, then i recommend you go with sharp for the intro.
PACS 164A Introduction to Nonviolence
PACS 164B Nonviolence Today
Valley Girl @ 137
Thanks to all. What a great place – you just ask and the answer is right there.
“If Rather can rip the lid off that at this critical juncture when the fourth estate has fallen down so badly just at the time we need them most, it may be the crowning achievement of his journalistic career.”
Or he’ll probably just settle out of court with CBS.
Which do you think will have the best chance of happening?
Now that I think about it. I wouldn’t mind seeing Rather running one of these so called debates.
LS @ 8
Libby was convicted and nothing happened. A hundred years from now some bright kids will study history and go ‘holy moly, all those scandals. And no one took note!” Still, we all turn one stone after another, that’s what we do (in different ways).
RonD @ 133
I think he’s absolutely right. I cannot believe the senate-Hillary included-voted for this. Cannot believe it. And it pissed me off when she said that she has classified info that she can’t share. Haven’t we heard that enough to last a lifetime?
Oh man. What chapter would that be?
selise at 145
thanks for your response
John W @ 147
If he just makes it to the point of deposition and settles..can the depositions be made public?
QuakerGirl @ 142
I don’t recommend it either but I sure respect it. There were plenty of us given the choice between jail and the service that took what seemed like the best of two nasty choices. As far as people that gamed the system, that’s an awfully difficult call. There we’re lot’s of ways to get out of the service and plenty of ways to game it once you got in, they called it “getting over”. The only thing McCain has said in the last five years that I like is that “the Vietnam War is over”.
Wow, Jimmy Carter is supporting the battle against Pancreatic Cancer, I swear he’s the best Ex-Prez evah…!!! 8-)
Mad Dogs @ 44
IIRC, the Cuban brothers own the San Antonio Spurs, and they are not shy about rooting for their team– in public. They are NOT Rupert Murdoch types. If Rather is on “their” team, as long as they think Dan’s got the goods, they’ll back him 100%. Dan is a bulldog, and so is his co-producer Mapes. They are out to do some serious ass-biting. Georgie won’t be able to sit still.
Bob in HI
John W @ 147
He said point blank on Larry King that he wouldn’t.
Dear Jane:
I just wanted to share with the folks here at the Lake a comment I posted over at emptywheel’s place a week ago, about the Rather complaint. I’ll give the link and, for the lazy, I’ll cut’n’paste.
The short version: Rather’s version of events is accurate.
The link: http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c…..t-83507957
The story:
Just thought you’d like some sharing.
Bush–AWOL I like the sound of it. So the right wing blogosphere keeps everyone in line. Hard to believe, just like everything else. Bunch of cowards.
KO-The NSA has been running seminars for reporters!
“become a junior partner in the war on terror by censoring yourself!”
Seminars includes specific words and phrases to use.
Supposedly discontinued in ‘04.
dmac @ 122
y-u k-ow, I m-ig-t! I’-l ha-e to look!
(th-s -s a-mo-t fun!)
Eureka Springs @ 153
I don’t think he will settle
bobschacht @ 156
Uh… Bob, it’s the Dallas Mavericks, not the Spurs…!!!
raven,
i’ve read that most who served in Vietnam were volunteers
which would include you and me
people went to Viet Nam for various reasons
i don’t think Viet Nam is like Iraq
I remember reading when this story came out that not only did Bush sign up for the National Guard, but he got accepted the very same day, even though the wait for EVERYONE ELSE was months and months and months……
LS @ 53
Sounds like the 911 comission, doesn’t it??
And, in response to a question further down the comment thread linked above (re: was the TANG story and firing Rather payback?), my second comment:
Valley Girl @ 93
wow. thank you (liked your comments – alot).
Thanks, Scribe.
Bob—
No, no, no, no,no!!!! Speaking as a Spurs fan! See my post at 92. Mark Cuban owns the Dallas Mavericks! The Spurs are owned by a group of San Antonio investors headed by Peter Holt (of whom no one outside the business world and S.A. has ever heard).
Jonathan @ 164
Let’s see…an unpopular war of choice, started under false pretenses, used to justify police-state activities at home and enrich administration allies, framed as a nation-building exercise, covert ops in neighboring countries, a training ground for enemies of the US from all over, secret-police Phoenix-Program-like ops against the civilian population…
You have to admit there are some similarities.
Loo Hoo. @ 84
When World Empire is the subject, money is no object!
Bob in HI
scribe @ 158
Jeebus scribe! How’d I miss that over at TNH?
Anyways, mucho thanks for adding it here!
Jonathan @ 164
Depends on what you mean by “volunteer”. Here’s a stat:
# 25% (648,500) of total forces in country were draftees. (66% of U.S. armed forces members were drafted during WWII).
# Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam.
I volunteered for Nam because, after 13 months in Korea, there was no way I could hack the chickeshit stateside. Like Tim O’Brien in “the Things They Carried” I made a choice between the Nam and Canada and picked the Nam because I didn’t want to embarrass my family (father).
If your position that “most people that went to Vietnam were volunteers” that would make Iraq more like Vietnam than less wouldn’t it?
Curiosity abounds. Any chance the estragement(s) in the Redstone family could come back to bite ol’ Sumner in the butt re: Rather?
tejanarusa @ 97
i don’t think that’s the case – although it helps, it’s not necessary. certainly the nazis weren’t interested in how the world thought about their invasion and occupation of demark.
Jonathan @ 164
Well, here’s one little story re: Viet Nam, as an interesting aside. A good friend of mine was drafted and went to Viet Nam. And, I don’t think he ever thought of not going. But, I know that the family that he came from did have certain views.
He was not allowed to join the Boy Scouts as a kid, because his father viewed this as a paramilitary organization. Both parents life-long Dems, and his father a city DA at the time. Basic message was: I’m not going to do anything to pull strings for you. This is not what good Dems do. All are equal.
Just fwiw, but not a perspective that one hears too often.
Really appreciated the post Jane. I would have missed it had it not been for FDL.
Bill Clinton up on KO.
When I was growing up in Houston, Rather was our “local reporter.” He cut his teeth on hurricane coverage, then moved on up. I still remember his confrontation with Nixon.
As Blumenthal points out, Rather may have some squirrelly characteristics, but he considers himself a reporter, and really wants to go after the facts.
OT – just listening to Webb on Keith Olbermann, talking about how the voting for the “designation of ??? as terrorist organization” — saying that in effect this is a declaration of war. If Webb can stand up to this fuckery, why can’t the weak-kneed among our party just hide behind him and do the same.
Jane is upstairs
Jonathan @ 125
Jonathon,
I’m one of those who gamed the system to avoid serving in Vietnam (with a lottery number of 6). I later enlisted in the AF after the war had ended.
But I do admit that I gamed the system and I was not then a fan of the Vietnam War nor am I a fan of the current idiocy.
I think the worst are those who gamed the system to avoid serving while talking about what a great war it was and how great the Iraq occupation is.
My $.02
Kathleen @ 162
from comment #40 above:
A little OT, but on topic wrt the nexus between the media and the Bush Administration:
Keith Olbermann just reporting that from 2002 to 2004 the NSA brought in “journalists” for classes on how to report about surveillance, etc.
I’m clueless about this – is there a way we can find out what reporters attended those “classes?”
Then we can identify and analyze all of the stories these “journalists” filed.
If we could find out it could go a long way toward explaining/exposing the collapse of our so-called Fourth Estate in recent years…
Is anybody else as freaked out as I am about this?
GordonM @ 104
you make a good point about nonviolent action that i’ve neglected to mention – in the case of serious oppression, expect to have people killed. maybe even a lot of people.
but, this shouldn’t be an argument against nonviolence – violent action kills people too, indeed probably many, many more.
Is anybody else as freaked out as I am about this?
Serious “freakout fatigue” over here.
barbara @ 175
I’d pay to see that!
rwcole @ 107
yes. it can…. iirc gandhi said that he could teach a courageous violent person nonviolence, but not a pacifist coward.
… but holding a candle can also be a nonviolent action. there’s all kinds of nonviolent actions. here’s a little list of gene sharp’s.
non-violence works when dealing with people who have consciences….
Eureka Springs @ 109
the last think i want is for us to start enforcing the notion that it’s not ok to criticise people in the military.
juslin @ 189
…which is just about everyone short of a Hitler or Stalin.
think i speeled conscience wrong……:(
Go Dan! Exposing the corruption and intimidation of these corporations by the right-wing is very much needed medicine for America.
or a bushco….
Wonder if James Bath is within subpoena reach, that could get interesting.
selise @ 191
LimpBalls has stated that soldiers, even if still serving, who are against the occupation in Iraq and want the troops withdrawn, are “phoney soldiers” not deserving of respect.
tejanarusa @ 97
Even there, Aung San Su Kyi has achieved legendary status by taking the high road of Gandhi and Mandela. She has become a powerful symbol of what is right with Myanmar, and makes the generals look like the petty tyrants they are. She will remain as a national hero long after she–and the generals– are gone. She has become the object on which the country’s collective conscience is projected, so she doesn’t even have to say very much, although she has apparently said quite a bit. She is much more powerful than you suppose, in the long view.
Y’know, if you had interviewed a Roman Consul about a guy named Jesus of Nazareth in, say, 32 C.E., he would have told you that Jesus was no part of nothin’, and would never amount to much.
Bob in HI
yes, jane hampsher
and
yes, sidney blumenthal.
i hope to god rather’s suit makes it past “motion to dismiss” and on to depositions.
that’s the heart of this case.
no jury will ever be needed.
just get the sleazy, power-loving, game-playing sons-of-bitches in transcript.
and after that?
hearing under oath before the congress -
for rupert murdoch,
for jack welsch,
for sumner redstone,
for robert parsons,
for that money-grubbing, god-courting, mouse (disney/ABC),
for limbaugh’s producer,
for pinch sulzberger,
for donny grahmn,
and for the legions of managing editors, producers, and talk-show hosts,
who have lied to this country for the last fifteen years about the problems it faces.
irresponsible, power-loving, career-protecting corporate reporting is
one of the three legs that george bush’s milking stool sits onc,
as it will the next would-be tyrant’s.
time to fix that.
thanks, don rather.
dakine01 @ 196
i know. i think we should attack what he’s said… not his right to say it.
dakine01 @ 196
I’ve been there. Tricky Dick said, “those bums are obviously not veterans”. Then he hired punk ass John O’ Neil.
RonD @ 191
i really don’t think this is right.
yes, it helps – but it’s not necessary. from gene sharp:
there are so much disinformation about nonviolence…
see if oxycontin limpball had ever worn a uniform maybe he’d be taken as someone who knows… but as he never served who the fuck cares what he says…….oh yeah all the idiots who believe he speaks truth……lord help us we are in such deep shit right about now
bobschacht @ 197 –
brilliant bob. thank you for reminding me that “working” is not a short term calculation.
After reading the complaint, expect:
The CBS Evening News with Dan Rather and Katie Couric….
1.) The legacy of g.w.Bush is his complete failure in anything he touches. This was apparent before his first election. And now (unfortunately) it’s set in stone as part of America’s history
2.) I’ve never been a fan of Rather. He’s quixotic and obtuse at times. And somewhat irrelevant.
3.) Bush will never testify while he’s in office. Even if there’s precedent, there isn’t enough time. (And he owns the Supreme Court)
4.) It’s funny how a “non-partisan” journalist has the potential do what the Democrats completely fail to do everyday in Congress.
5.) Somebody, Some thing, Some Event needs to cement these ideas in the general public. That our government is seriously broken. Somebody needs to do something serious, I only wish it could be me.
6.) Go Dan. For America. Put Georgie in his place.
i wish i shared the lake’s optimism for dan getting any kind of traction in this suit….want to be proven wrong
Loo Hoo. @ 84
A little more Rather-Bush history, from a not-necessarily unbiased source (Still, I think the resources are useful, and kind of like the aikido, but if mods disagree will understand):
http://www.ratherbiased.com/bush_attack.htm
Many of us have been worried about the “cakewalk” crazies pre-emptively bombing Iran since the illegal invasion of Iraq. All one has to do is go and read the defense strategies at the Project for a New American Century and basically read the plans.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
The warmongers Micheal Ledeen, Reuel Marc Gerecht, Bill Kristol, Woolsey, John Bolton etc were everywhere (after the invasion) repeating unsubstantiated claims about Iran. They have been turning up the heat over these last four years. And now we have Ari Fleisher and David Wurmser popping back up to push for a strike on Iran. (these guys should be in prison for outing Plame)
Scott Ritter tells us that stopping an attack on Iran should be front and center http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092707C.shtml
Daniel Ellsburg agrees stopping an attack on Iran should be front and center for all of us if we want to protect Iranian peoples lives
http://www.commondreams.org/ar…..9/27/4131/
Gareth Porter http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..66020.html backs up what Iaea’s El Baradei has been telling us for years, there is no evidence to back up the claims about Iran being repeated by the radicals
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..-warnings/
With the Kyl/Lieberman amendment passing
http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/Kyl-Lieberman Amendment.pdf, and HR 1400 passing
http://www.govtrack.us/congres…..=h110-1400 congress is not doing anything to stop the war train headed for Iran.
So will we find ourselves talking about how many Iranian people are dead from Israel’s or the Bush administrations illegal and pre-emptive strike on Iran. We know this group of warmongers are crazy and ruthless enough to attack Iran. We see what they have done in Iraq…they are brutal killers with absolutely no shame.
It is projected that 10,ooo Iranian people would die if Israel or the US were to pre-emptively attack their nuclear sites
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new…..world.html
The time to do something was yesterday. So please please please do it now… Call, write, e-mail your Reps. No attack on Iran!
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/…..mp;type=98
The story of these documents and Rather’s reporting on them is high drama, much more compelling than a Law and Order episode. This suit lays out the misbehavior of the CBS top execs, but there’s lots more to the story. Hopefully, a real lawsuit will air everything that’s been covered up.
Bill Burkett is a tragic figure in all this, caught up in forces far more powerful than he alone could cope with. In an almost made-for-TV moment, he was handed the purported documents by a strange man connected to one “Lucy Ramirez” in a cloak-and-dagger setting at a Houston livestock show. To this day, nobody knows who this man was, his motivations, or the provenance of the documents he handed Burkett. All this and more is set out in a fascinating USA Today story from three years ago.
The kerfuffle over “kerning” was a tempest in a teapot. Burkett did not claim that the documents he faxed to CBS were the originals – his story is that they were typed on a modern computer, and the originals destroyed, in order to protect Burkett’s anonymity.
The amount and depth of misinformation out there regarding these documents is stunning. There’s a “study” by one David E. Hailey of Utah State University which is sheer unmitigated bullshit. I have no idea what Hailey’s motivations were, whether he is deliberately dishonest or merely stunningly incompetent, but in any case the resulting effect, of muddying the waters, was helpful to some. Deseret News has an interesting summary of the reaction to Hailey’s work.
Given the obvious questions about the authenticity of the documents and the credibility of Burkett, CBS clearly had the obligation to check them out carefully. Somebody really screwed up, and I think the real question that needs to be answered is whether it was deliberate or merely sloppy. The secrecy and coverup so credibly alleged in Rather’s suit points strongly to the former.
I have no idea whether all these games of skullduggery will come to light (I find them strangely reminiscent of a certain famous “Italian letter”, the origins of which are still murky after much notoriety). I certainly hope the lawsuit will shed light in dark corners, but there are many things that can go wrong between the filing of this lawsuit and the full triumph of justice.
This is where we part ways, selise. If people are trying to kill me, I don’t mind if my fighting back means they die too.
Thanks JANE jANE jANE Here is my prayer is that DADDY G.H.W.B. & MOMMIE b. bush are the frist to be DEP. ED Who would know better than any humans on this earth what there little DRUCK was up to ?????
you all seem to forget – this is that hack that reported that the zapruder film showed JFK’s head going FORWARD (lie) instead of BACK (truth), thereby selling the lie of a lone assassin from the school book depository.
If you think this is going to “blow the lid off” you are not looking at the big picture and probably still waiting for “fritzmas” too…
carolyn urban @ 211
what i meant was that, in the context of organized resistence to oppression, a violent response would, in many cases, mean more deaths for your side.
i’m not talking about personal defense or protection. if someone went after my nephews, i’d use any means to protect them. i’m not claiming to be a pacifist.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 28
Yeah…and don’t we all?!!
At the time, I remember that it seemed kinda quick for an analysis of such important documents to be completed and the result announced.
But I also heard (and I have not read the complete complaint myself so cannot vouch for it) that Rather’s real complaint was that he was promised a certain amount of airtime if he was quiet about the whole affair and then only got pissed off when the station canned him. As I said, I am not saying it is true but only that I had heard folks saying that Rather’s canonization should not take place right away.
I know I’m way past EPU territory, but anyone really wishing to dig into the weeds of this story needs to look at the source document archive. I think that site is affiliated with Paul Lukasiak, who has also been known to post here. An enterprising journalist wishing to learn the truth (if such a mythical being might actually exist) would do well to get in touch with him.
60 minutes is totally compromised- next is a piece kissing Clarence Thomas’ butt
Having Sidney Blumenthal agree with Jane Hamsher on something like this doesn’t really add any weight to her view. I respect Blumenthal a great deal, but I feel that Jane’s view is more authoritative. Having Blumenthal agree with Jane reinforces the soundness of his judgment, not hers.
I think what will really give is a good understanding is CBS’s answer, and their counterclaim, if there is one. I’ve read a couple of cases against big corporate entities where I didn’t really have a view on whether the case was solid until I read the lame-ass answer.
hayduke @ 11
A real down-home Texas bar brawl and bar-b-q all in public.
If only Ann Richards and Molly Ivins were around to watch it.
Yet another great article. Oof.
Jane, next time you find yourself in Santa Monica; consider a long, lazy belt-adjusting brunch at the Omelette Parlor, patio section; Squiddy’s treat, anytime.
(unwittingly self-inked in embarrassment for what I’ve written, squirting back to benthosphere to hide)
Mike Toreno @ 219
More like Jane agreeing with Sidney. Sidney came out with his piece before Jane shared her opinion. Please..this is a bit of a stretch