Surprisingly – Tim Russert actually asked the question – and pushed for answers.
What’s your take on their responses? I still heard only one “get them all out” amongst the major candidates… thank you Governor Richardson raising the question, for working with us to get it in front of the voters and for giving us a clear and very good answer.
Thank you as well to Senator Dodd for fighting the good fight in the Senate to end the war now and for making it clear that all candidates in the Senate could help do the same!
It’s good to see that some of our candidates actually do step it up!
PS – Don’t forget to help light up the map telling DC we want out of Iraq now! and give us a hand tossing $5 to the Blue America PAC whenever you want to throw things at the TV.
Related posts:
- Birthers, Part Deux: Republicans Divided
- Liberals Need a 12 Step Program – We Ask Taibbi What We Should Do Next
- Texas-Two Step: Same-Sex Divorce Before Marriage Equality?
- PA Pres. Abbas to “Step Down”; Was Suppressing Goldstone Worth It?
- Online Health Care Townhalls Sunday at FDL: Ohio Democratic Senate Candidates
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here we are again
Zed for President.
DODD!
Gays! Run away!
So what are the odds that Timmeh is going to ask hard questions of the Goopers when their time comes?
What no hands up in affirmation?
I’m so surprised.
Different rhetoric, same agenda.
Hillary being better than I thought on hate crimes.
Hillary on same sex marriage. She says that everybody needs to take up this issue with their own children. Gay and lesbian rights is a big issue. Bill tomorrow and she hopes everyone (Obama) will be there to vote for it! What a polite slam!
Hey LL I followed your New Thread link downstairs, seemd like we’re in tandem. Baseball get a bit boring?
OT but…This just in…
2 Patriot Act Provisions Ruled Unlawful
Actual progress?!
Hey MM! The debate is my bright shiny object tonight ;-)
A meaningless debate that will immediately dissolve down the memory hole.
Okay, EPU’d… Ya gotta admit, if you want a “happy furry kitty” soundbite Sen. Obama is your go-to guy. I was hoping for a bit more…
LoudounLib @ 11
Well it’s a much better distraction then most.
I actually think this debate ranks just behind the You-tube debate in spiritedness and real demarcation lines being drawn amongst them…! I’m glad that Kucinich and Gravel were invited, too!!! 8-)
Everythingseemssoneat @ 12
It’s a LOT healthier than Paris Hilton or any of her ilk…
Marion in Savannah @ 13
Has he been called first yet?
Actual progress?!
That’d be an affirmative.
PeteCO @ 17
NO
Have to give Hillary credit-she comes across very naturally. Very calm, thoughtful, and unscripted.
She has come a long way as a candidate.
Still think she’s lying down with the wolves, though.
Portland case is result of FBI fingerprint and warrants screw-up in jailing lawyer Brandon Mayfield for Madrid train bomb.
Marion in Savannah- In a way it’s more sinister because they are pretending to oppose Bush.
I just sent a little bit of the money I withheld this year from Alaska Public Radio to New Hampshire Public Radio for hosting this. The nutcase woman isn’t from NHPR, but from some cable news network, IIRC…
Another OT, but worth it:
“The incident rate for Blackwater is higher, there is a distinction,” said a senior American government official who insisted on anonymity in order to discuss a sensitive ongoing investigation. “The real question that is open for discussion is why.”
Why? Because the founder, Erik Prince, is a Christian Reformed Church fundamentalist who believes is double pre-destination: (1) He is going to his heaven irregardless of acts on Earth because it is pre-destined, and (2) the rest of us not in his cult are pre-destined to go to hell. Thus, no remorse or regard for others–they’re going to hell, anyway, get in their way, just grease the skids for them. Spread the word.
neokneme @ 10
No thanks to our Brave Democrats in Congress. And as it wends its way up the legal food chain to the people who elected GWB (- one swing woman and one wing nut and plus 2 double wing nuts) any guesses on how it will all end?
Howdy y’all!
This is a boring debate. I liked the last one better.
neokneme @ 10
At least it won’t be overturned by the Ninth… Yet, once it hits the supremes I lose faith…!!!
I don’t think gay marriage is quite the boogey man it was a few years ago.
Even people I know that used to be vehemently opposed, now seem resigned. They see that the world is changing. One Muslim I know says he now sees the issue as a civil rights issue.
PeteCO @ 17
He got the first question.
social security and medicare up
Biden do you agree about upping the retiring age
do you support taxing everyone’s ss”
Biden you either have to do that or raised taxes.
Marion in Savannah @ 13
the triumph of hope over experience.
THANK YOU!!!!! Why do I pay Social Security on my entire annual income and my boss only on his first 6 weeks of income?
WHo just said “raise the cap” on SS?
Social Security; Or you could stop flushing money down the crapper in Iraq/n, Timmeh. But I don’t suppose that option occurred to you, did it?
Is Hillary avoiding the question and wimping out?
Marion in Savannah @ 32
right on.
To much Hillary time!
TexBetsy @ 35
filibuster?
heh — a prez-candi said “dissing”
Marion in Savannah @ 32
And my clients who make millions pay none, since all of their income is capital gains.
Ed*ard Teller @ 23
New England Cable News—on comcast stations in MA, NH, RI, ME, and VT I think
TexBetsy @ 35
yup.
Marion in Savannah @ 32
If Buffett and Gates state they pay too little in taxes, WTF??? Hmmm….
Hillary: we’ve got to get back to fiscal solvancy.
Our current president has never like SS.
Bipartisan compromise. Fiscal responsibilty is first.
TexBetsy @ 35
So it would seem… Yep… Everything’s off the table until… WEASEL
Eureka Springs @ 37
How else will they make their narrative a self-fulfilling prophecy?
LoudounLib @ 39
I know…i smiled when I heard that
Alicia @ 36
I’m old enough to vaguely remember when Social Security stopped being taken out of my paycheck about 2/3 of the way through the year. Oh yeah, we noticed.
Hillary excellent on SS.
Eureka Springs @ 37
The Repubs are betting on the rabid, foaming Billary-haters to swarm out.
leslie @ 47
“The times they are a-changing!” *g*
PeteCO @ 46
and that’s precisely what it will be!
Hillary on social security and taxes. We (Hill/Hill) had a plan. I do think we need a bipartisan conference on this. It will take presidential leadership. I will do everything possible to make sure social security is solvent. Bush has used the trust fund for other issues. She is pissing off the Timmeh, because she will not take anything off the table!
Temmeh is attacking every candidate! He wouldn’t dare during a pug debate.
Eureka Springs @ 37
Don’t want to piss her off or else access to Bill is cut off. Clinton Has Staff Kill Negative Article
Elliott @ 38
At least she has the courage to filibuster somewhere, eh? Maybe because she looked HORRID at 0300 during the real one. On radio, right now, she looks smashing!
AnnieW @ 40
That isn’t fair at all!
Can they get social security when they are old?
tex, that was tim’s question.
so far obama, hil and biden (?) said it’s got to be part of the plan.
sorry, I’m serving dinner.
PeteCO @ 46
MSM and republicans are desparate for Hillary to be nominated. All the trash is primed and ready to sling–leaves time to hack it up on the golf course and screw underaged Dom. Rep. girls.
Obama hears young people who don’t think SS will be around. I hear middle aged people who think that.
SnarKassandra @ 57
Yes, they can.
tejanarusa @ 48
All of my income is taxed, my husband’s paycheck is larger and he stops his contribution halfway thru the year. We do notice the difference, but both of us support lifting the cap.
Biden seems to be the one left out of this debate.
Marion in Savannah @ 62
NO FAIR!!!!
Why is he interrupting Richardson? Rude…
timmeth… funny money.. aasshat
Can somebody that was in jail and didn’t work for 10 yrs get social security when they get old?
Hah – Dodd – (part of a list) – financial literacy important. Isn’t that the truth. And working for a “financial services company,” I see the IL-literacy every day.
Richardson say’s no.
Stop raiding the SS fund.
Grow the economy.
Go Bill.
PeteCO @ 60
and I’m already pushing 60 and i don’t want to hear “raising the retirement age”.
AND i dont think it’ll be here for me.
Timmeh is staying away from John Edwards
Marion in Savannah @ 61
And you better believe they take it too.
Timmeh is starting to think he’s asking himself the questions, and that he should answer them.
I don’t understand why no Democrat is willing to say that every dollar should be subject to SS tax.
Is Timmeh working some wing-nut mind-control on ‘em?
SnarKassandra @ 67
yes if they have enough working years to pay into the system…
Compared to the Rethug debates, at least reality is on the table.
The Goopers live in fantasy land.
Anyone think John is gonna make it?
Loo Hoo. @ 73
heh heh heh
I can’t imagine DKucinich doesn’t have restless leg syndrome by now
I sure wish he could be allowed to speak.
leslie @ 70
I’m worried about raising the retirement age too…
AnnieW @ 61
The cap relates to the max you can receive, no? My hubby also reaches a point where he doesn’t pay. But if you remove the cap on deductions would you also raise the amount he can collect?
Snark, one pays SocSec taxes only on the first $97K of income.So-if you make 90K or less, you pay on 100% of income…one who makes 900K pays SS taxes 0n 10%.
SnarKassandra @ 57
I’m no expert, but they are eligible for some portion if for a certain number of years they contributed. I don’t know what that cut off is.
Kevster @ 76
He’ll win the general election if he can get the nomination. But…
Edwards; “Why would you trust a bunch of politicians who say the same thing over & over?”
No sh!t.
SnarKassandra @ 64
Ironically, by lifting the cap of $88,000 on SS to $250,000 would make SS solvent for another 50 yrs…!!!
Edwards is saying politicians use double talk on SS. He doesn’t understand why somebody who makes millions of dollars only pays taxes on the first 97K, while someone making 20K pays SS taxes on all of it. GOOD FOR EDWARDS!
Ah! Finally! Edwards! Sense on the cap!!!
Leaning more toward him all the time….
I Like Edwards.
John has really grown since 2004.
I followed him from Illinois to Ohio to Wisconsin then, and I’d do it again today
Good answer on SS, Edwards – the doughnut. Good answer about privatization, Kucinich.
SnarKassandra @ 67
You get Social Security based on your income (up to a limit, I think) when you were working. If you weren’t working you don’t add to the Social Security you will get. If you’re a woman who leaves the workforce to raise her child you won’t get Social Security credit for those years. Yeah, it’s unfair and it sucks…
Alicia @ 71
All of the press is. That’s why his numbers aren’t moving. And they know it.
The press really wants Hill—just like the repigs do. They are all salivating over the prospect.
John Edwards. Now more than ever.
solai @ 80
SS received is based on your working income anyway. So amount withheld wouldn’t much matter. It doesn’t really now–the eldest recipients got back what they paid in in their first few years, because their contributions, in dollar amounts, were so small in the early years.
TexBetsy @ 88
On domestic issues, I don’t think anyone is better.
I have concerns on foreign affairs though.
Dodd, no one political party can get this done. Parroting Hillary.
LoudounLib @ 93
In your heart, you know he’s right!
Watching Ken Burns’ The War on PBS this week. Powerful storytelling thru the voices of ordinary small town Americans about the realities of WW 2.
Should be required viewing for all school children–and all bellicose politicians quick to send other people’s kids to war. And all Americans who have forgotten the lessons of history.
Also saw John Ratzenberger [think the Cheers know-it-all] yesterday talking about the outsourcing of manufacturing weakening America’s ability to defend itself. We can’t make our own anything any more.
Will take a longer look later at the threads about the Dartmouth debate.
Demand better. Be better.
So what happens if someone doesn’t work enough years even if they had a good job for 10 yrs?
Loo Hoo. @ 96
After today’s votes, NO political party can get this done
Alicia @ 71
I noticed that earlier. Then he asked Edwards a baited question. Ooh, Hillary interrupted..
SnarKassandra @ 67
Yes … in Canada …
Hillary- we were on the pathway of eliminating debt. You cannot give away what you are foing to do on SS until you have everything on the table to be considered. Fiscal responsibility is where the dems shine.
One party with a very strong majority which votes as a block can do whatever they want.. eh?
cripes, here comes “allison” again.
TexBetsy @ 99
You guessed it, Cassie – they are out of luck. No SS retirement benefits.
REmember that if you marry a man who wants you to stay home with the kids. *g*
My understanding was that the guy who made $97,000/yr would receive the same retirement benefit as the guy who made $300,000/yr. Is this not correct?
Edwards and Kunnich are the only one that do anything for me. Hillary is a godamn Republican. We need Gore…
Petrocelli @ 102
It depends, if for another 30 years there has been contributions, the answer is yes.
Dodd’s Talk Clock shows himself pretty much in the middle as far as elapsed talk time…he’s at 7 minutes, compared to Hillary’s 12-1/2 (highest, except for Russert, of course) and Gravel’s 2-3/4 (lowest)…
oops, TexBetsy – sorry I mistook you somehow for Snarkacassandra.
LoudounLib @ 93
YES! YES!! YES!!! YES!!!!
leslie @ 105
“Do the candidates still love Osama Bin Laden?”
tejanarusa @ 106
BUT if you divorce that man after 10 years, and he makes a good living, you can collect on his SS when he dies.
Marion in Savannah @ 112
Times two
Would you be in favor of a ban on smoking in public places? Hillary wants to regulate tobacco through the FDA, supports local decisions. No federal law at this time.
Obama, local communities too. I would support federal if local doesn’t work.
Biden, Edwards, Richardson, Kuchinich and Gravel in favor of a federal law.
Alicia @ 97
Yes, he is.
Another Kucinich zinger-”I’ve been breathing second hand smoke all night”
TexBetsy @ 99
There is a ‘default’ line, yet, housewives are reliant upon husband’s earnings…!!!
Clinton has had
more time than everyone even Timmeh.
leslie @ 105
As Marian asked, who is this woman?
LoudounLib @ 93
Hear !!! Hear !!!
… raising a chilled Chimay to you & JE, LL …
solai @ 107
Yes, that’s correct. There is also a floor for benefits for those who didn’t earn enough for the max-don’t know what it is.
Petro ;-)
Biden taking on Hill for wanting to put SS on the entire budget issue.
I gots me a Edwards bumper sticker on my car.
I likes me some John.
Biden, you need to LEAD! he’s talking to you Hillary.
You can kill Iraqis but you can’t buy yourself a beer
LoudounLib @ 93
That was a Nixon campaign button. I still have it somewhere. It was Nixon Now More the Ever, 1972 I believe.
Petrocelli @ 102
Yeah, but still get screwed on CPP. And OAS is not a livable amount of income.
hayduke @ 108
We ain’t gonna get Gore. Pick Edwards. Kucinich has about as much chance as I do…
Gore/Edwards. Nuf said.
I’ve never heard anyone talk about Fetal Alcohol Syndrome before. Good for Biden.
GWB=Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.
Why are they talking about lowering the drinking age?
CTuttle @ 118
Also, at this point in time, wives must choose between getting SS on their own earnings, or on their husband’s. And they have to do this when they enroll in SS, not when the husband dies. Based on husband’s earnings, it will be only a portion of his SS benefit for the widow. So her income goes down when he dies, Social Security or not. (mm, if she chose his benefits, because he made more money)
Millineryman @ 128
707!
Millineryman @ 128
I remember seeing those back in the day!
hayduke @ 131
For me, Edwards/Kucinich
Dang, they’re all losing the 18-21 yr. old voting bloc…!!! ;-)
SnarKassandra @ 57
Yes, they can. The amount they will receive is based on what they paid into the SS fund. The rich love to bash SS – they don’t want to pay their matching portion on behalf of their employees AND they want to invest the money they pay on their own wages in investments.
PeteCO @ 133
Ding!!
hayduke @ 131
Na ga hapn
This is where Dems line up like Republicans and take away liberty for brownie points.
Elliott @ 127
In my heart I agree, but damn, I would hate bars that were populated with 18 and 19 year olds.
Raising the drinking age to 21 put my top 40 band out of business, but I’m glad they did. It saved lives.
How are the polls showing Edwards these days? How far in the lead is Hill… or is that MSM bloviating?
TexBetsy @ 134
They’re at Dartmouth…
Richardson, yes laws against drunken driving, but also help for alcoholics. More research on medical issues. Two months on the Iraq war ccould have done lots of research.
Gravel, old enough to serve, old enough to drink. Audience liked it!
AnnieW @ 109
Um … even immigrants (seniors) who haven’t worked a day in Canada receive SS, along with all the due benefits – free Rx, gov’t ass’t living, etc.
Marion in Savannah @ 130
I think fantasies about Gore as a candidate are getting in the way of making real choices about candidates.
Plus if he really ran he would do stuff that would piss folks off. It’s easy to not make mistakes when you are not running.
Alicia @ 71
Ding!
ReElect President Al Gore & VP Edwards 2008!
I’d like to see more time on foreign policy issues.
lahoma.
TexBetsy @ 134
because they’re debating in a college auditorium. (that’s right, isn’t it?)
Kevster @ 122
That’s what I was alluding to earlier, I’m not sure of the floor for SS either…!!!
hayduke @ 131
Second that emotion. My dream team.
TexBetsy @ 134
Because the debate is at Dartmouth, a school where there’s lots of that happening (drinking, that is)
I remember when the drinking age here in VA was 18 for beer and 21 for everything else. And I’m not running for prez, but I think the legal age should be 21.
Edwards/Obama
Hey. OKK and Lahoma didn’t say a word… Must be the catfish.
Edwards/Richardson. That works for me.
TexBetsy @ 134
So they could get kids drunk and have them sign recruitment papers for the perpetual wars.
I can’t beleve people don’t think Gore is going to run. Nobel Peace Prize Oct. 12th… and then Its his to lose, no one stays away from that power than can actually win. NO ONE.
Is it a break or is it over?
AnnieW @ 144
Truth is, if you grow up with a bit of wine at Sunday dinner, you don’t automatically associate drinking alcohol with getting a big buzz on. It’s a better way to learn how to use alcohol the way I see it.
CTuttle @ 139
If they want that bloc, they should be talking legalising pot.
I think they should bring back prohibition except for wine. hahaha
Drinking age is not a national issue.
Loo Hoo. @ 159
See Lahoma @152!
Loo Hoo. @ 148
Again, as one old enough to remember — that’s pretty much how the drinking age got lowered for awhile in the ’70’s – Vietnam era argument.
SanderO @ 146
The nnumbers I’ve seen show Edwards beating all the Rethugs. And with greater numbers than the others (except in one of the states VA maybe?)
LoudounLib @ 167
Edwards/Dodd
Edwards/Sibelius
Timmeh wants a national no-smoking law.
fascisCTuttle @ 139
Dang, they’re all losing the 18-21 yr. old voting bloc…!!! ;-)
except Kucinich and Gravel.
Damn, why do I always pick the ’tilting-at-windmills’ guys?
Man, that drinking age thing…I know it saved lives, but I think if you’re old enough to enlist, old enough to kill, you’re old enough to drink…maybe they should also raise the minimum enlistment age to 21, and the driver’s license to 18.
Marion in Savannah @ 160
i could be happy with that
Who is Sibelius?
commercial pimping Tweety’s 10th anniv. show.
Blergh.
Another debate? Holy Cow!
Hillary’s got it unless someone TAKES it from her- and we’re gettin down to the short strokes on that possibility. It’s about over for Gore- Tip off time is January- three months away. It’s a bit late to declare- raise money and have any chance at all. If he was running he’d have declared by now. Kiss him goodbye.
TexBetsy @ 175
I think he wrote a really nice cello concerto.
Fern @ 150
Thanks to GWB, the bar has been set pretty low … and Gore will run !
TexBetsy @ 175
Woman Dem. Gov. of Kansas
Sibelius is a composer
Obama, time to turn the page. Tim asks if he means turn the page on Bushes and Clintons. What a fucker.
I don’t think they should be expected to answer in 30 second sound bites.
RonD @ 173
Never happen. Militaries know very well that soldiers need to be as young as possible to be malleable enough for training to kill.
how does Obama consistently make his answers so boring/irrelevant?
RevDeb @ 171
I like Gov. Sibelius, she’s done a lot to grown the party in Kansas.
Elliott @ 164
I was just kidding, I agree.
I also think it’s bullshit to say that an 18 year old is an adult, responsible for contracts signed, crimes committed, can get married anywhere (as long as it’s hetero), can fight for our country, but somehow isn’t mature enough to buy a beer.
Prairie Sunshine @ 158
jane/christy
Millineryman @ 161
Well, when I was a pup the drinking age was 18 and there was a great fuss about letting people go to war and drink but not vote… So now we only let them go to war… and it’s also VERY costly in road deaths, and war deaths too.
OT
2 new posts today, plus 1 yesterday I couldn’t talk about at late night.
These are the topics:
- Are people in Houston crazy???
- How to Prevent a War with Iran
- ACTION ALERT: Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina
- A Courageous Girl
No, It is not healthy to have 2 families. Answer the question, Ms. Clinton.
Asks Hillary if two Clinton presidencies is too much. She says she thinks Bill did a pretty good job and the joint is jumping.
LoudounLib @ 157
I think what would be more effective are stricter DUI laws, like in Europe … they are a great deterrent …
SanderO @ 181
Finnish
selise @ 188
Awesome!!
jayt @ 186
Because he is.
Biden saying he doesn’t think (you) can castigate moveon for the ad.
RevDeb @ 171
Elgar/Sibelius
My brother started being my guardian when he was 19. And he does a pretty good job of it.
Gawd what a question for Kucinich… would you raise gas tax by 3.00?
While his “cousin Albert” has effortlessly inhabited the vestments of a liberal politician, to hear Gore Vidal tell it, the former Vice President’s liberalism is merely a prop developed to bring him to the head of the Democratic Party.
“Well, although we are cousins, and I was a friend of his father’s, I’ve always thought he was absolutely pointless as a politician. He’s just another conservative southerner.”
In fact, Al Gore’s voting record as a senator was surprisingly conservative until he rolled his eye toward the White House. Throughout most of his career, he was pro-life and had an 84% anti-abortion rating from the National Right to Life Committee. From 1979 – 81, he voted five times on the side of a Republican sponsored rider that granted a tax exemption for schools like Bob Jones University that discriminate on the basis of race. He was openly anti-gay, calling homosexuality “abnormal” and “wrong,” and telling the Tennessean in 1984 that he did “not believe it is simply an acceptable alternative that society should affirm.” Gore was such a strong supporter of the gun lobby – ultimately voting against the critical 1985 legislation for a mandatory 14-day waiting period for handgun purchases – that National Rifle Association leader Wayne LaPierre once said, “We could have made Al Gore NRA Man of the Year – every single vote.” Finally, when it came time to vote on conservative Supreme Court nominees, Gore publicly praised but voted against the scandal-ridden Clarence Thomas. He voted in Antonin Scalia. If the wider public had been more aware of his legacy, few would have recognized the Al Gore of 1988 who ran for the Democratic presidential nomination.
Pulling his hat down so that his eyes are shadowed from the sun, Vidal continues his effortless assault on Al Gore: “Another border-state, southern lover of the Pentagon…there was never anything the Pentagon asked for that Cousin Albert wasn’t down there giving it to them; he voted for the first war in the Gulf.”
Indeed, Al Gore was one of only ten Democrats to break with the party and vote for President Bush Sr.’s Gulf War in 1991. But while Vidal sees this as a facet of Gore’s eager-to-please statism, others have attributed his dissenting vote to self-interest. Former Republican Senator Alan Simpson accused Gore of peddling his vote on the Iraq War in exchange for high-visibility, headline-grabbing speech time on the floor. According to Simpson, the night before the vote Gore stopped by the GOP cloakroom and asked, “How much time will you give me if I support the President?” Taking him at his word, Simpson and Senator Bob Dole offered Gore twenty minutes, thirteen more than his own party would grant. In Simpson’s account, over the course of the night Gore jockeyed to have the floor during prime time to ensure that he would get coverage in the next day’s news cycle. The negotiations went right up to the last minute, leaving Simpson to conclude that Gore “arrived on the Senate floor with… two speeches in hand. [He] was still waiting to see which side – Republicans or Democrats – would offer him the most and the best speaking time.”
For Vidal, stories like this just prove the moral bankruptcy of American politicians who serve no master other than their own ambition. And their corporate backers. In Gore’s case, this meant Russian-born oil tycoon Armand Hammer, owner of Occidental Petroleum. Though it was Gore’s father, Senator Al Gore Sr. who was the primary beneficiary of Hammer’s support – in exchange for political and diplomatic favors to further his international business interests – Gore Jr. slipped quietly into his father’s shoes.
Kuchinich, wants the next president who is right on Iraq, and healthcare.
TexBetsy @ 175
Katheleen Sebelius is Gov of Kansas. Very impressive.
On soc security benefits try this link: http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgDa…..efit2.html
PeteCO @ 165
Shoot, they’d have my vote then…!!! ;-)
Ed*ard Teller @ 198
And I just revealed my musical ignorance. Oops. Or my aging brain.
What just happened after Kuchinich sspoke?
tejanarusa @ 184
Oh, I know. I would just like to see philosophical consistency-and to me, old enough to kill is old enough to drink.
jayt @ 186
I agree, I don’t get his popularity
Millineryman @ 195
He didn’t have to be, conventional wisdom said he needs to break out here, and so far, I don’t see it.
leslie @ 183
They’ve been working to do just that for YEARS. With trainers… and consultants…
rwcole – umm, you know, we’re liveblogging here. No offense, but a post that long doesn’t belong in this thread – too much bandwidth. And not really OnT.
Eureka Springs @ 200
US has about the lowest gas taxes in the world.
Elliott @ 208
He and Richardson both. Dodd and Biden go on too long.
Iraq
Energy
Health Care
deficit
My big issues.
California Girl here :) Hey pups
Marion_189
I remember that debate also.
Ed*ard Teller @ 198
Copeland/Sibelius… We gotta have an American composer in there…!
Hey egregious!
egregious @ 215
in a California airport?
hey eg!
Hi egregious!
Loo Hoo. @ 206
everyone laughed. (”Or do you want a president who is tall?”)
then Edwards stood beside kucinich and demonstrated his own height.
The Boy Scouts????
Oh muh Gawd
Great answer by Richardson-he’s been good all night.
egregious @ 215
Welcome to our state. Have a lovely time.
Ives/Sibelius
leslie @ 222
that was a high blow
Richardson sounding like he actually likes the Constitution.
AnnieW says
September 26th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
He didn’t have to be, conventional wisdom said he needs to break out here, and so far, I don’t see it.
That’s why I was asking. He needed to blow some shit up tonight to make up any ground, and so far he’s not even found a fuse to light.
Hey egregious, say hello to CA for me.
Loo Hoo. @ 206
He said you could have someone who has been anti-war from the start, pro environment, . . . etc . . . or you could have someone tall.
laughter.
Finale/Sibelius
Richardson rampant on civil liberties and the Iraq war. Obama shooting back.
I liked Obama’s answer that voting to end the war was more urgent for him than being in Jena. He could have phrased it less boringly. But then, I suffer from that prolixity problem, too.
Kevster @ 223
Making up for past mistakes… I like him though.
Russert is a turkey.
Hillary is slippery.
Denis is correct.
Edwards is smart and ethical.
Obama is in love with his own voice
Richardson is a good public servant
Dodd seems OK but has little spark , but likable and OK on the issues.
Biden will not be president, he is becoming the one liner.
Gravel is out to the party’s ron paul.
richardson would be acceptable
rwcole @ 214
They’ve addressed ‘em, albeit, not satisfactorily, but, they answered them…!!!
SnarKassandra @ 199
Judging by your comments and your posts here, on Facebook and on your blog both you and he are doing superb jobs.
tejanarusa @ 211
I beg to differ. We were talking about presidential candidates. The post is longish but not excessive.
And I have personally had it with the Saint Gore business.
Obama: can’t rule out nuclear power.
Nice summation, Sander, and correct.
tejanarusa @ 233
Lots of platitudes-no passion, no meat.
Republicans are floating the lower drinking age trial balloon to set a trap for the Democrats. The Democrats should say that they are also in favor of a reduced drinking age and kill the issue.
The Dems don’t mind telling us how religious they are. Why not go for the drinking age reduction too. Kill the drinking issue the way Bill Clinton took the welfare issue away from Bob Dole.
Fern @ 239
Umm, saint or not, Gore ain’t in the debate, and that’s the topic.
that “lightning round” sound effect is a bit cheesy, no?
RonD @ 240
The boring engineer in me agrees.
Gravel is wrong about wind, wishful thinking.
LoudounLib @ 245
Very-actually I just noticed it
LoudounLib @ 245
very….and stinky too.
Obama “America can not sanction torture.”
lol Kevster, sorry — I kept hearing a noise and thought something had toppled over on the set
Elliott @ 208
It’s based on his keynote address at the convention. People keep hoping… It was a hell of a speech, but let’s face it — keynote addresses are “happy furry kitty feel-good” speeches. Way too much was laid on him because of that speech, and he believed the hype. Just sayin’…
why did timmeh just call obama president obama/
F*cking torture. Unbelievable. Bullsh!t. Obama gives correct answer.
aw fuck – Timmeh draggin’ out the jack Bauer hypothetical…
I can’t believe he’s asking that foolish question!
TexBetsy @ 249
Yes! Props to him for that.
Besides, it does.not.work.
Good Obama! But say the truth…torture DOES NOT WORK! Leave the morality aside.
Thanks Biden!!!!
Timmeh loves him some torture…
That is so low of Timmeh to ask that hypothetical.
AnnieW @ 257
Props to Biden, who finally said it.
5 more Blue America happy dollars for Biden on Torture!
rwcole. Al Gore was representing TENNESEE, A blood “red” state. The man had to get re-elected obviously, this is politics wer are talking about, He a slick bastard but that’s ok with me. Representing America he will would be not so constrained.
Gawdman tehn “bomb is going off in three days” thing again!! Russert can go to hell!!! Godamn this guy. They are at it again. Yo, Timmy, where are you prop crutches you S.O.B.???
LoudounLib @ 258
He should look in the mirror.
Marion in Savannah @ 217
Copland/Chavez (Carlos – the Mexican composer, not Hugo) – for the Hispanic vote
TexBetsy @ 236
As Veep.
I wish one of them would say that that scenario is so unlikely that we shouldn’t even waste time on it.
LoudounLib @ 258
would loves to get him some
(just kidding)
Millineryman @ 263
*spew*
Question, if you know someone knows where the bomb is that is about to go off, would you allow torture.
Obama, no. Biden, no. Clinton-hopefully-will say yes. In my (own) opinion, it depends on who is doing the intelligence and if they can be trusted. Hillary skirts the issue.
Like saying ‘would you prostitute yourself for a million dollars’
Huh. Biden concise, Hilary long-winded, on the torture question.
Biden must be practicing.-
AnnieW @ 246
The corporatocracy rarely meets a corporate welfare recipient it doesn’t like. I refer to the nukyuler industry, not the windmills. Obama was prostituting himself for big nuke, IMHO.
Oooooh, a Jack Bauer question about torture:
Obama-no torture, no how no way
Biden-no presidential exception; called in the generals to boot
Clinton-can’t be part of American policy; going off on tangent; the big dog gotcha!!
Hill stood her ground
Good for hillary. “Bill isn’t standing here right now. I’ll talk to him later”
Millineryman @ 263
He should watch “Press the Meat”.
Hillary scores on the Timmeh gotcha!
I think that makes her total of good answers tonight, ummm… ONE.
AnnieW @ 246
Wish I didn’t have to agree with you. Should be solar and wind where feasible..linky for info on state of the art pebble-bed info? Isn’t that the reactor that runs on current nuclear waste, and leaves high-level products for only a couple hundred years?
“dangerous to go down this path…” – that you’ve helped us along so glibly, Ma’am.
Holy fuck, Timmy’s giving Hillary a huge amount of time. He must have gotten the memo.
Alicia I am worth way more than a million.
TexBetsy @ 249
Really? It already does. What are you going to do about it?
what’s that clunking sound I keep hearing in the background?
Marion in Savannah @ 265
…or UN Amb., or, Sec. of St…!!!
OldCoastie @ 282
the “lightning round” sound effect
Hillary is the anoited one. Its pretty obvious.
Late here, but drinking age? Drinking age? DRINKING AGE????? Answer: That is a state issue. If you would like to run on it, Mr. Striped Pants, that’s fine with me. If my constituents agree when the time comes, I may support it also. Now lets see, this war we were discussing….
leslie @ 274
Loved that. gotcha back atcha, Timmeh.
OldCoastie @ 282
Cheesy lightning round sound effect
SnarKassandra @ 280
Alicia I am worth way more than a million.
And don’t you forget it! *g*
hayduke @ 285
or the annoying one, depending on how you look at it.
Edwards would close Gitmo. Yes!
GO JOHN!!! GO JOHN!!! GO JOHN!!!
leslie @ 274
Yes. If I knew someone planting a bomb under my house with my daughters in it, solid info from people I trusted, audio and/or video, my passivity would evaporate right quick.
Edwards; ‘close Gitmo’…!!!
Edwards: America has been undermined for the last 7 years. No more secret prisons. Close Gitmo, and end surveillance of Americans.
Gotta like that.
LoudounLib @ 291
“No more secret prisons.” Yes.
Marion in Savannah @ 292
Good for John.
Edwards: what America is; that’s the issue
Absolutely-we have been morally besmirched by the thugs in office
Oh if only Gene Gene the Dancin Machine were still alive. We could sure you use right about now, funk soul brotha.
(youtube link)
tejanarusa @ 296
How bout private prisons and private mercenaries?
Torture. See Overton Window
I can’t believe this is even a subject.
Timmeh is asking some sleazy ques…!!! 8-(
Marion in Savannah @ 292
we are definitely on the same page.
GO JOHN !!!!
Clinton, what about the 750K donated by Hsu? (sp) I sponsored legislation to disclose monies to libraries and foundations.
Edwards is ruling it!!! The second coming of Jimmy Carter.
Alicia @ 270
Is that how much Timmeh makes ?!! *g*
hayduke @ 305
Me, I get a Bobby Kennedy vibe from him, but I’m an old fart…
Get the haircut in, Pumpkin Head!
I cannot stand Timmeh…
How the hell did Bush make (steal) his millions?
Petrocelli @ 306
Eh, hose off…!!! *g*
So if Jack Bauer needs some info quick from Ted Russert, what is Russert’s view on torture then?
Shorter Edwards: STFU Timmeh…
GO EDWARDS !!
The inevitability of Clinton….beltway annointment or not she’s gonna be tough to beat on our side but the salivating by the Goopers to go against her is naive.
Timmeh beating up on John again-the MSM don’t want him.
Petrocelli @ 306
In a good week, that’s probably about right…
Edwards, what about the haircut, Murdock, hedge funds etc.
He is proud. Born into poverty. Won’t apologize for making money and making his kids lives easier. It’s the reason he is going around the country helping people. “I do not apologize.”
Timmeh, what about New Orleans. He helped out families who had their lives uplifted.
JOHN!!
favorite bible verse??
oh please
Aw, Jesus–Timmeh trying to weave hedge fund and Katrina together, and subprime mortgages, and somehow making them John E’s fault?
But, John not letting him get away with it. Yes!
what is your favorite Bible verse?????????????????
WTF
CTuttle @ 302
Timmeh is a hostile interregator. He’s gentle as a lamb with repugnicans. Their idiotic soundbyte answers are so satisfyingly patriotic to him (and G.E.). No further probing is ever required of a repugnant (or Lieberman).
Well, Edwards just did everything to Timmeh except slap the shit out of him…
Beautiful.
hayduke @ 305
Anyone on troll patrol? This is getting stinky.
leslie @ 309
It goes back to Prescott Bush, and it ain’t pretty.
TexBetsy @ 317
For real. C’mon, this ain’t Larry King and Paris Hilton!
leslie @ 319
wtf?
Russert is a bastard!! Bible verse???
Obama nominates Sermon on the Mount. The correct answer.
at last — Obama mentions the Sermon on the Mount!!!!!
Ten points for Obama on tha’un!
Obama finally scores with The Sermon on the Mount answer.
Too little, too late.
Obama is tonight’s big loser.
Elliott @ 325
You’ve got to be kidding. Right?
LoudounLib @ 324
That will be the Republican debate.
FAVORITE BIBLE VERSE??? wtf?
Obama-Sermon on the Mount
Clinton-Golden Rule
Gravel-love
Kuchinich-
Edwards-Do unto me
Richardson-Sermon on the Mount
Dodd
Biden-Warning on the pharacies
What the hell is this question???
Where’s BigMitch? A baseball question!
jc inOR @ 286
Actually, it’s not just a state issue; the reason states all raised the drinking age to 21 was because a federal law was passed denying them federal highway funds if they didn’t.
However, I will agree that compared to the important issues of the day, it’s nothing but a bright shiny object.
BoSox…!!! 8-)
If only one of them would say, “Favorite Bible verse? “Jesus Wept!”.
Edwards…”WhAT YOU DO TO THE LEAST OF YOUR BRETHREN, YOU DO TO ME.”
GOOD FOR HIM
red sox or yanks?
leslie @ 319
Barf.
FYI Denis’ St. Francis prayer is not in the Bible.
Elliott @ 325
Yeah, it is, but absolutely to be expected. Good answers.
Oh s–t, back to Allison.
Kevster @ 314
Which is one of the MAIN reasons I support him.
And if they strangle that broad I would be a happy woman….
for many of the questions, Timmeh did a pretty good job – glad they weren’t little softball questions.
He still had his stupid “gotcha’s”, but it probably was better than it could have been…
Boo… The Evil Empire, I knew there was a reason I didn’t like her…!!!
Marion in Savannah @ 341
And for once, we wouldn’t mean Hillary or Feinstein!
Love the question about Yankees and Cubs to Hillary
Admits she’s in trouble on that one.
October 9th, republican debate.
Watched the whole debate. No change in my view on any of the candidates.
Goodnight from…
Lahoma and me.
Jon Stewart time.
And not a moment too soon for me.
RonD @ 336
you! ha. that’s the shortest one, not the favorite.
btw Kucinich: Make me an instrument of thy peace.
leslie @ 337
Shows you he’s actually read the book.
hayduke @ 326
I like the one in Deuteronomy that calls for the death of anyone in your family who brings home another religion. Its your moral obligation to dispatch such scoundrels immediately.
CTuttle @ 343
Now, come on, she represents New York. What else could she say?
BTW, per NYT, Yankees just cinched the playoffs….
Edwards won, but, watch Tweety denigrate him…!!!
tejanarusa @ 318
Don’t these fools remember what a great Attorney JE is/was ?
RevDeb @ 339
Clearly an oversight. *g*
Fineman knocking Obama
He’s right-Obama was very weak.
Hillary says do unto others as they do unto you. Are you f’n kidding me? And if you ask me at a political debate a religious question, hey, I was raised that you don’t mix church and state. Then you go all laugh, laugh, laugh, right hill. I am sick. Also, What happened? What a comedy sketch Jon and his crew has to work with. Wish I was there.
RevDeb @ 348
Lucky! My hubby wants to watch the recap, though so far, I’m agreeing with them, even Pat Buchanan.
Asking bible verses is an all time low. What in the hell have we come to. You have to be a Christian to be President, someone please kill me, I can’t take much more of this religon litmus test stuff.
hackworth @ 351
LOL
HAHA Hillary triangulates on who she’d root for in a Yankees Cubs World Series — she would “have to alternate!”
How does that work exactly, Hill?
Petrocelli @ 354
These fools remember nothing.
tejanarusa @ 352
But, the BoSox won too, moving them closer to the AL East Title…!!!
I think Dodd is only one strong enough not to be ground into a malaise.
By choice.
TeddySanFran @ 361
Flip Flop.
I thought Edwards was a sharp as he has ever been in a debate so far…
Give your money to the local homeless shelter, not to some wannabe political hacks. More and better what? So you get three newbies elected, they have no power, they have no key committee seats, they have no influence, and they realize that they must toe the party line if they want to be re-elected. What a fucking shell game, what a scam.
Help a kid to read, help a young single mother get health care and job training. And if that doesn’t work, send your five bucks to me, I need it a hell of a lot than another egotistical nimrod who mouths pretty words to get a vote and then proceeds to get rich off my tax money.
Whew. This was a lot of fun, Pups. Didn’t get much else done this evening, tho.
Goodnight!
Pat Buchanan praising Edwards.
twȝk @ 364
I think you are right but I would add Kucinich to that short list..He’s a fighter.
twȝk @ 364
I disagree, I think Edwards is certainly game enough…!!!
If you look at the Dodd clock, you can see the discrepancies in the amount of time they were given.
twȝk @ 364
???? Malaise is a feeling of weakness or ennui or dissatisfaction or something along those lines….
Eureka Springs @ 371
noted!
hayduke @ 359
g’evening folks, did i miss anything today?
lil tim was the perfect republican plant just another Bill Sammons really unattractive.
lil tim not so little anymore
Suzanne @ 377
Nope, it’s been really quiet….
Hi Suz, just the usual f*ckery ;-)
Eureka Springs @ 371
*sigh* If only he could shed the Wingnuttia label…!!! 8-(
Pat Buchanan: (On Kyl-Lieberman)”They’re moving toward giving the President a blank check to go to war in Iran.”
Creeping Jeebus.
Speaking as a Catholic, I couldn’t answer the bible verse question. We (or at least I) don’t study the bible that way. We have the gospels and I could tell you about several dozen. But, I couldn’t name a verse.
solai, same here as an Episcopalian.
OldCoastie @ 367
I agree.
This is a drive-by hello to FireLake pups.
Tonight begins the 8 day Festival of Tabernacles in the Jewish faith, and I am off to go celebrate. To make the holiday especially sweet:
Game over. The Yankees win! THUUUUUUUH YANKEEEES WINNNNNN!
——- and they are going to the playoffs!!!!
RonD @ 382
Maybe those &$#$^&% who voted for the bill today, ought to have thought of that?
Suzanne @ 377
Heh, a wise-acre, eh? Bonne Soir, Ma Cheri!!! 8-)
Happy celebrating, BigMitch!
demi @ 376
The bible has two parts…Old and new testaments, remember?
But, I agree that it was a dumbo question.
Big Mitch @ 386
As the Wild Card…!!! :P
Suzanne @ 377
((Suzanne!!!))
LoudounLib @ 384
So how crazy is this, as a Unitarian Universalist I can probably come up with a few . . . but then I went to seminary and had to read the thing—the whole thing.
No one asked either of my questions: What is your favorite animated film? And does Russert look like Shrek, just not as funny?
katherine Graham Cracker @ 378
I know we aren’t supposed to make fun of physical attributes, but YES.
And why didn’t Hillary ever circle back around on her answer to Timmeh about why he cared about millionaires having all their income taxed for Social Security? She was headed to a zinger, but I never heard her nail it.
demi @ 390
I missed the debate. Hope it will replay later. Can someone tell me what the question was?
I know I said g’night but – Fitz making news again:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…..ption.html
Hugh @ 394
Those are important questions, and should have been included! ;-)
solai @ 383
Feed my sheep? Seems to cover so much, in so few words.
solai @ 383
Since the question was fundamentally disrespectful, I would have liked to see one of ‘em have fun with it: “I like 2Kings 2:21-22, where God sends bears to tear 42 children to bloody pieces for sassing His prophet!”
A moment beyond price, that would have been.
To be fair, the repubs should be asked a religious question too. Rudy, what’s the 7th commandment?
Dodd Clock debate totals
7:01B
17:37C
9:33D
12:17E
4:20G
7:00K
13:30O
11:49R
19:25 Tim
Big Mitch @ 397
They were asked to quote their favorite bible verse and someone said oh, you have to be Christian to be president. But, there are a bunch of great verses in the old testament, too, right? Starting with Thou Shalt Not Kill.
C’mon upstairs for some Bill-o bashing
LITT (late in the thread): George Packer’s essay in last week’s New Yorker is a thoughtful assessment on our leaving Iraq.
TRex is Upstairs
New Thread.
AHAHAHA! Tweety just revealed himself with the question to Dodd, “do you find it difficult to debate a woman?”
that’s almost as good as Bill O’s shock that black people have manners when they go to a restaurant.
solai @ 402
LOL
CTuttle @ 43
http://www.lcurve.org/
Eureka Springs @ 403
So Hillary talked a Gravel longer than her nearest rival, nearly two gravels longer than Dodd, 2 1/2 gravels longer than Kucinich, and 3 gravels longer than Gravel.
demi @ 44
In ‘93 that was the right approach. But, today after the Republicans took a surplus and turned it into huge debt you can’t just continue fighting up that hill and watching them build more debt.
It’s a political fight. The Republicans keep that bright shiny object out there (debt) for Democrats to ’solve’ and like Lucy they’ll keep putting it there for Dems to kick. But, we’ve gone down that road once and they’ve shown they’ll keep spending in forever silly ways.
So, Democrats have to begin changing the economic policies to make America better and not focus as much on balancing the books. It’s the direct way Repubs can’t prevent us from using to rebuild the middle class and improve the safety net for the poor.
Alicia @ 71
He IS a scary guy, huh? Did he give Timmeh that big toothy smile? LOL
Totally in EPU territory. Tried to post this earlier but got lost in EPU land.
My closest friend from high school is an Oxford PhD candidate studying immigration law. Basically she is an expert on this area of the law.
Timmeh did not researh his horrible question (or maybe he did) regarding the immigration law. The fact of the matter is that the law says the state and local governments cannot enforce those laws unless they have a memorandum of understanding with the feds.
Strangely Hillary’s answer was closest to the reality on the ground and the reality is that the law was written that way for a reason.
LoudounLib @ 258
Why does Timmeh love to torture us?
Gawd, most of the time listening to him IS torture.
Late Nite FDL: Bill-O’s Bad Moon Rising
upstairs
Did the most critical question in the middle east come up? The Israeli/Palestinian conflict!