jeb

Zed

Jane!!!!

I took the survey. All but McNerney should get a chance to come here and explain themselves. McNerney is on his second chance already, so I voted for him to be removed.

Only fair to give ‘em a warning and ask for an explanation. After this though, if there is a continued tendancy towards this behaviour, cut ‘em off at the spigot, as they used to say down home.

Public financing of elections is the answer. It’s a no thunker.

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 3

Jane!!!!

I took the survey. All but McNerney should get a chance to come here and explain themselves. McNerney is on his second chance already, so I voted for him to be removed.

What he says.

Zorge @ 4

Only fair to give ‘em a warning and ask for an explanation. After this though, if there is a continued tendancy towards this behaviour, cut ‘em off at the spigot, as they used to say down home.

That’s the way I voted… I’m pleased that both my reps from Hawaii voted Nay!!! 8-)

Zorge @ 4

Only fair to give ‘em a warning and ask for an explanation. After this though, if there is a continued tendancy towards this behaviour, cut ‘em off at the spigot, as they used to say down home.

And for the 146 who voted in favor, the saying around here would be “fuck all-y’all.”

At first, I thought that the Dems had been out of power for so long that they had forgotten how to do things. But, it is far worse than that.

Just shoot me, Jane…

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 3 All but McNerney should get a chance to come here and explain themselves. McNerney is on his second chance already, so I voted for him to be removed.

I voted the same. “Veto proof majority” McNerney should be struck off. The others are on strict probation with an obligation to come here and have a chat. I don’t get it, how can they be so stupid and so spineless at the same time?

I voted to get rid of all four. But then I’m radical. What do you expect.

Don’t forget to show some love for Al Franken, soon to be replacing Norm Coleman.

And as his reelection campaign gets underway, it’s worth noting that Coleman has hired the same media consultant who ran ads in Georgia that juxtaposed pictures of Cleland, who lost two legs and an arm in Vietnam, with Osama bin Laden.

Let them explain

Guess Jerry McNerney found that Veto-Proof Majority he was lookin’ for.

Feck him and the weasels he hangs with!

first choice would be to try to educate them… by inviting them here for a discussion. do they understand what they have done? i’m not willing to assume that based on the level of ignorance i’ve witnessed in various congress critters.

if a polite discussion doesn’t help… i.e. they are not willing to act differently in the future, then i think you ought to consider cutting them off.

very sad… but imo, it’s better to concentrate on those candidates who best represent us.

that said, my opinion should not count for much, as i don’t have lots of $$$ to donate.

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 3

Jane!!!!

I took the survey. All but McNerney should get a chance to come here and explain themselves. McNerney is on his second chance already, so I voted for him to be removed.

Good point I would have done the same thing if I knew we need a tally of how they vote on issues we care about. Ending the War, Healthcare, spying on Americans etc.

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 3

Jane!!!!

I took the survey. All but McNerney should get a chance to come here and explain themselves. McNerney is on his second chance already, so I voted for him to be removed.

JKC – My survey vote exactly. I don’t know much about Hall or Shea-Porter, but McNerney has shown his true colors. I’m always willing to see if some weird misunderstanding can be cleared up, when someone makes their first big mistake.

How does Howie feel about this? He put so much effort into these candidates.

A survey!

I voted “B — invite” as step one. BlueAmerica is the forum for them to explain their vote, and for them to understand our anger. Based on their answers, I could move to A, then maybe C.

Congressional votes matter, especially non-binding votes against free speech. Congresspersons must understand that we are watching their votes and listening to their statements.

I say bring em on (EXCEPT JERRY, DROP IT)to explain their vote, then let everyone who gives and supports to blue america vote whether or not to drop them, that is the democratic and progressive way….Let the peoples voice be heard!

Suggestion. Invite THE front-runner for Dem prez here to explain the Senator’s vote today on Lieberman-Kyl.

Hiya Jane. Hi y’all. I voted the same as Teddy SF.

I’m for letting them explain. All of them are scared shitless over potential attack ads. They saw what the leg-breakers did to our war hero senator from Georgia. The thugs play for keeps. It would help if our side executed a few horse-head under pillow moves to even up the odds. There has to be some mutual assured destruction equilibrium created to prevent our guys from being scared off the reservation.

Let’s not forget who the true bad guys are here.

petedownunder @ 18

How does Howie feel about this? He put so much effort into these candidates.

he has one vote like everyone else, and the right to voice his opinions!

Next time I will know it’s important to ask a lot of questions. A long long long time ago I was active in Common Cause California and we had to be very careful to stick to the good government issues because there were many areas where there was near violent disagreement

selise:

that said, my opinion should not count for much, as i don’t have lots of $$$ to donate

.

Whoa, whoa, selise! I hope you don’t really mean that? Of course your campaign SHOULD count for just as much as any millionaire donor’s. Whether it does, of course, is another question.

selise @ 15

first choice would be to try to educate them… by inviting them here for a discussion. do they understand what they have done? i’m not willing to assume that based on the level of ignorance i’ve witnessed in various congress critters.

if a polite discussion doesn’t help… i.e. they are not willing to act differently in the future, then i think you ought to consider cutting them off.

very sad… but imo, it’s better to concentrate on those candidates who best represent us.

that said, my opinion should not count for much, as i don’t have lots of $$$ to donate.

I voted to ask them all to explain their votes. It shows we are watching and interested in what they do with our support.

It also gives us a chance to find out what in the name of hell are they thinking about?

I’d hazard a guess that they are hearing far too much pearl clutching from the inside the Beltway crowd, and not enough from the majority of Americans who want this occupation ended.

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 3

Jane!!!!

I took the survey. All but McNerney should get a chance to come here and explain themselves. McNerney is on his second chance already, so I voted for him to be removed.

I should have thought of that. As it is, I voted for all of them to explain themselves, with the implicit intent that if any refuse to do so, they should be removed. (And if any can’t justify their vote to our satisfaction, they should be removed too, but they should have one chance to explain themselves before that step is taken.)

I am really flummoxed by the events of the last few days. I no longer know who our friends are, who in Congress we can rely upon. Obviously many of our supposed allies either do not support our basic constitutional values, which I doubt, or they fail to realize the import of the votes they cast.

I believe we should implement both options one and two. If the answers that are supplied are deemed unsatisfactory or the Congressperson declines our invitation to take part, the third option should be put into force.

You know, I would really like to believe we had made some difference in my lifetime! Instead, things are regressing at a prodigious rate, change from within the Party increasingly seems to be a futile strategy. I don’t think the Founders ever conceived of a disengaged, lazy, ignorant citizenry such as we have in this Country.
/snivel

FDL and Downwithtyranny are open 24/7. If one of our candidates decides to vote against our stand on betrayus, much more vote against the first amendment.. I think they should at least send an assistant over to the blogs to let us know in advance that our positions and right to free speech no longer matter.

I voted A for all except on McNearney.. he gets a C today along with last months F!

SnarKassandra @ 22

Hiya Jane. Hi y’all. I voted the same as Teddy SF.

Aloha, Miss Cassie! I voted the same, although I did hesitate with McNerney…! Maybe, I’m too lenient…!!! ;-)

Looks like my own Dave Loebsack screwed this one up. Too bad for him; I thought he had earned some respect, but this sets him back big as far as I’m concerned.

“that said, my opinion should not count for much, as i don’t have lots of $$$ to donate.”

Remember, the purpose of all this money is to help them get their names and positions out there so they win votes. I think those of us who are already paying attention aren’t costing them much!

John Hall is my representative, and so far he’s been a very progressive rep. This district — NY 19 — has been Republican for decades (literally), and he won by a very narrow margin (the former rep., Sue Kelly, demanded numerous recounts and took back her concession for a week or so).

Even so, I wrote to tell him how disappointed I was in this vote. It seemed so out of character for him, especially since it was progressives in the district who put up the money and energy and effort to get him elected in the first place.

Give him a chance to explain; I bet it’s something about how red this district is.

katherine Graham Cracker @ 25

Next time I will know it’s important to ask a lot of questions. A long long long time ago I was active in Common Cause California and we had to be very careful to stick to the good government issues because there were many areas where there was near violent disagreement

I guess I took free speech for granted from BlueAmerica candidates. But I was wrong!
I would never have expected we’d need to ask, “Will you support free speech? Have you an alternative view of the First Amendment?”

nonplussed @ 29

I am really flummoxed by the events of the last few days. I no longer know who our friends are, who in Congress we can rely upon. Obviously many of our supposed allies either do not support our basic constitutional values, which I doubt, or they fail to realize the import of the votes they cast.

I believe we should implement both options one and two. If the answers that are supplied are deemed unsatisfactory or the Congressperson declines our invitation to take part, the third option should be put into force.

You know, I would really like to believe we had made some difference in my lifetime! Instead, things are regressing at a prodigious rate, change from within the Party increasingly seems to be a futile strategy. I don’t think the Founders ever conceived of a disengaged, lazy, ignorant citizenry such as we have in this Country.
/snivel

Yes, I am about ready to just give up. This war will never end. These people will never really care about their fiduciary responsibilities. it’s all about “what’s in it for me”.

where can I go? Canada? Ireland?

I would hope we have more guts in this community than those in Congress. We have asked them repeatedly to use the power of the purse, since it’s one of the few alternatives they have to complete capitulation, and they have refused every time. Now is the time for us to demonstrate what should be done when those representing you are not doing their jobs: cut off funding sources for those that voted for this censure. It was not in any of our best interest, and they should have absolute proof that it was not in their best interest either. Else, they think they have us by the shorthairs, and that we have no alternative but to vote for them because for the others to get into office is not a viable situation. Cut off their funding! Do not pay them to diss you! Do not help them to diss you.

elaboration of post 23. I hope everyone recognizes I was referring to Senator Max Cleland. Early signs of Alzheimer’s, I suppose. But I do think that we have to consider that the rethugs killed off a lot of our best people, including (searching for name) the Democratic speaker of the House from the Okanagan district of Washington state, not to mention any other number of reps who voted the right way in 1993 and 1994. The thugs take no prisoners. Our guys are all to ready to forgive and forget. If we had run our cold war with Russia that way, we’d be living on thin borscht. I don’t understand why the Democratic establishment can’t figure this out. It’s not rocket science.

Also we need to show the people who barely won in tight races where every vote and every penny counts how many Firepups, Kos, Moveon people are in their districts and how much we spent in their districts on Pro Democratic advertising.
We should show them the surveys of who we are and point out that we vote. We are the people talking in the street trying to end the war. We are the angry informed knife edge of the 70%ers, we are the CENTER, we are the MAJORITY. Heck we are the new ingroup the next generation of authoritarian personalty kids will want to join. (I’m not so sure I’m happy about that.)
But if they want to keep screwing us then come next election they won’t get elected Dogcatcher!

You know, without sharing the anonymity surrendering details, we have an old man who runs around our town with The. Most. Offensive. Pictures. Ever. on his truck.

But they are not porno and they are protected by free speech.

so why isn’t the Betray Us ad?

i’m so depressed.

all eight blue america representatives voted FOR the hideously irresponsible lantos anti-iran bill yesterday.

it wasn’t only the senate with their kyl/lieberman amendment. the house passed it’s own anti-iran bill H.R.1400, 397 to 16.

here’s what the jerusalem post had to say about it:

The US Congress moved quickly Tuesday to signal its disapproval of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, calling for tighter sanctions against his government and designation of his military as a terrorist group.

The swift rebuke was a rare display of bipartisan cooperation in a Congress bitterly divided on the Iraq war. It reflected lawmakers’ long-held nervousness surrounding Tehran’s aggression in the region, particularly toward Israel – a sentiment fueled by the pro-Israeli lobby in Congress whose influence reaches across party lines.

“Iran faces a choice between a very big carrot and a very sharp stick,” said Rep. Tom Lantos, chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. “It is my hope that they will take the carrot. But today, we are putting the stick in place.”

hope it’s ok that this quote is repeat from earlier this morning. i just think it’s important the everyone knows about the house action (as well as the senate’s action on kyl/lieberman).

Oklahoma kiddo @ 21

Suggestion. Invite THE front-runner for Dem prez here to explain the Senator’s vote today on Lieberman-Kyl.

And the current runner up to explain his absence and how he woulda/shoulda.

so disappointed in Pat Murphy right now. So disappointed.

Is Tehran really aggressive or are they making that part up?

If we are spending $12 billion per month on the Iraq and Afghan war (Gates has asked for a 1/3 increase) how much extra will the coming Iran war cost?

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 3

Jane!!!!

I took the survey. All but McNerney should get a chance to come here and explain themselves. McNerney is on his second chance already, so I voted for him to be removed.

That’s pretty much how I voted and what I said in the comments.

I don’t understand Shay-Porters vote at all. She’s really a grass roots dem and NH is going very blue. She needs to explain herself.

RevDeb @ 46

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 3

Jane!!!!

I took the survey. All but McNerney should get a chance to come here and explain themselves. McNerney is on his second chance already, so I voted for him to be removed.

That’s pretty much how I voted and what I said in the comments.

I don’t understand Shay-Porters vote at all. She’s really a grass roots dem and NH is going very blue. She needs to explain herself.

Do ya think they fixed the voting machines in the congress?

Anybody have some serious ideas about threats and revenge? If we can’t punish people who screw us on the big things we might as well give up.

things come undone @ 39

Also we need to show the people who barely won in tight races where every vote and every penny counts how many Firepups, Kos, Moveon people are in their districts and how much we spent in their districts on Pro Democratic advertising.
We should show them the surveys of who we are and point out that we vote. We are the people talking in the street trying to end the war. We are the angry informed knife edge of the 70%ers, we are the CENTER, we are the MAJORITY. Heck we are the new ingroup the next generation of authoritarian personalty kids will want to join. (I’m not so sure I’m happy about that.)
But if they want to keep screwing us then come next election they won’t get elected Dogcatcher!

Thank you TCU: I guess I just need a pep talk. I am so F’ing tired of these tools, all of ‘em, not LISTENING!! Hello?? (sorry, mods, I know I’m shouting.)

Just vote all the bastards out. Every one. That is our bloodless revolution. But jeez!

SnarKassandra @ 44

Is Tehran really aggressive or are they making that part up?

i suppose it’s all a matter of degrees.

the iranian gov. (not the people) is certainly less agressive than our own.

too angry to leave an acceptable comment

SnarKassandra @ 44

Is Tehran really aggressive or are they making that part up?

Way I figure it, Cassie, is that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad knows how to talk tough just like Bush, but unlike Bush, he hasn’t actually destroyed any entire countries. Not even his own.

I mean serious,y what the fucking point of helping these people if all we get is lip service to our issues (if that) and a stab in the back for telling the truth?

After all the money and time we’ve given these people, never mind support when no one else would stand up. How many petitions have I signed defending this guy or that guy from right wing bullshit attacks.

Fuck it. next time some asshole democrat sticks his foot in his or her mouth, that person can go to fucking hell. I’m just so fucking angry right now. Fucking seething.

Arthur Silber is right.

Knut Wicksell @ 38

elaboration of post 23. I hope everyone recognizes I was referring to Senator Max Cleland. Early signs of Alzheimer’s, I suppose. But I do think that we have to consider that the rethugs killed off a lot of our best people, including (searching for name) the Democratic speaker of the House from the Okanagan district of Washington state, not to mention any other number of reps who voted the right way in 1993 and 1994. The thugs take no prisoners. Our guys are all to ready to forgive and forget. If we had run our cold war with Russia that way, we’d be living on thin borscht. I don’t understand why the Democratic establishment can’t figure this out. It’s not rocket science.

what that ad guy did was unforgiveable.

tejanarusa @ 17

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 3

Jane!!!!

I took the survey. All but McNerney should get a chance to come here and explain themselves. McNerney is on his second chance already, so I voted for him to be removed.

JKC – My survey vote exactly. I don’t know much about Hall or Shea-Porter, but McNerney has shown his true colors. I’m always willing to see if some weird misunderstanding can be cleared up, when someone makes their first big mistake.

McNerney should be removed for sure. He’s had his chances. This is a pattern. He just doesn’t listen to us.

If McNerney were to change his ways in the future, we can bring him back. But I doubt that will happen.

The others should be removed from the list as well, in my opinion. Blue America is a privilege, not a right. They knew what they were doing when they condemned MoveOn.

Yank them off our list now, and if they improve later, bring them back on. They need to experience immediate consequences for slapping us full on in the face.

Do ya think they fixed the voting machines in the congress?

Dang girl. What does Aunt Betsy put in your after school sandwich? *s*

I would almost be relieved to find out that’s what happened.

One word to discribe this democratic congress ” PUSILLANIMOUS “

Jonathan @ 51

too angry to leave an acceptable comment

Is this your theme song, Jonathan?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=

brendancalling @ 53

I mean serious,y what the fucking point of helping these people if all we get is lip service to our issues (if that) and a stab in the back for telling the truth?

After all the money and time we’ve given these people, never mind support when no one else would stand up. How many petitions have I signed defending this guy or that guy from right wing bullshit attacks.

Fuck it. next time some asshole democrat sticks his foot in his or her mouth, that person can go to fucking hell. I’m just so fucking angry right now. Fucking seething.

Arthur Silber is right.

i don’t think that’s fair to say about senator feingold.

the problem we’re having is finding out how many of our dem leaders are really not on our side.

the good thing is that we are learning what is true so we will be better prepared for the work ahead.

It’s getting more difficult each day to explain the differences on foreign policy between the Republicans and the Democrats.

I think we should wrap up McNearney in a bow and give him to the Blue Dogs. Our treat.

brendancalling @ 53

I mean serious,y what the fucking point of helping these people if all we get is lip service to our issues (if that) and a stab in the back for telling the truth?

After all the money and time we’ve given these people, never mind support when no one else would stand up. How many petitions have I signed defending this guy or that guy from right wing bullshit attacks.

Fuck it. next time some asshole democrat sticks his foot in his or her mouth, that person can go to fucking hell. I’m just so fucking angry right now. Fucking seething.

Arthur Silber is right.

And I deliberately moved into Sestak’s district to avoid having to deal with the repigs. A lot of good that did me.

And on top of all of this, I just got an e-mail from Angie Paccione announcing that she’s dropping out of the race in CO-04 to take a job.

What else can go wrong today?

One thing’s for sure I’ll never doante any money to a dem again. Hell I may as well just vote rep. I’m getting the same result aren’t I?

SnarKassandra @ 44

Is Tehran really aggressive or are they making that part up?

Snarka-
that depends on what is meant by “Tehran.” I’ll bet that you know –as our elected representatives apparently don’t– that Pres. Ahmadinejad is very verbally aggressive. But in Iran itself, the people don’t pay him much attention. HIs position is ceremonial, his power extremely limited.
Many Iranians are ready for the “revolutionary” regime of the mullahs to be over, and interestingly, rearely express hostility to us, American people, just our crazy government.
There was a great link this a.m. to a piece from an Iranian professor about how our demonizing Ahmadinejad builds him up far beyond his usual status at home. I’ll look for it.

things come undone @ 48

Anybody have some serious ideas about threats and revenge? If we can’t punish people who screw us on the big things we might as well give up.

Threats and revenge aren’t part of my reaction to this. Grave disappointment and a deep desire for these people to know and pay the price for my disapproval is. And I think the survey is in more that spirit.

$0.02

When a working sheepdog is suspected of killing sheep, it is destroyed having been “blooded”.

When a politician shows signs of drinking teh “kewlaid”, withdraw all support without recourse, they have been compromised.

Risk your sheep; Risk your country, same difference

It’s time to start talking about the nuclear option: sit out in November, 2008.

We can show them we mean business by organizing a sit-out of the primaries. Then, if the nominee still won’t take a clear stand, we sit out. That’s what they do in other countries when the elections are tainted–and the set-up is tainted in ways I can only speculate on. The fix has been in since 2000.

RevDeb @ 62

brendancalling @ 53

I mean serious,y what the fucking point of helping these people if all we get is lip service to our issues (if that) and a stab in the back for telling the truth?

After all the money and time we’ve given these people, never mind support when no one else would stand up. How many petitions have I signed defending this guy or that guy from right wing bullshit attacks.

Fuck it. next time some asshole democrat sticks his foot in his or her mouth, that person can go to fucking hell. I’m just so fucking angry right now. Fucking seething.

Arthur Silber is right.

And I deliberately moved into Sestak’s district to avoid having to deal with the repigs. A lot of good that did me.

And on top of all of this, I just got an e-mail from Angie Paccione announcing that she’s dropping out of the race in CO-04 to take a job.

What else can go wrong today?

I’ve learned the hard way to never ask that question…!!! 8-(

Nora @ 34

John Hall is my representative, and so far he’s been a very progressive rep. This district — NY 19 — has been Republican for decades (literally), and he won by a very narrow margin (the former rep., Sue Kelly, demanded numerous recounts and took back her concession for a week or so).

Even so, I wrote to tell him how disappointed I was in this vote. It seemed so out of character for him, especially since it was progressives in the district who put up the money and energy and effort to get him elected in the first place.

Give him a chance to explain; I bet it’s something about how red this district is.

I really liked him when I saw him on TV. The truth is, at this point, after all the hay the Repugs were able to make of this one ad, I’m willing to admit that the ad was counterproductive. It became nothing but another big shiny thing, and not nearly enough was made of the fact that this was a first amendment issue first and foremost. So many arguments could have been made in defense of the ad, but instead the Dems in Congress once again let the Rethugs set the agenda. The Dems then became so busy apologizing that they actually seemed to believe that their self-deprecating bowing and scraping would help them in the polls; instead it once again reinforced their weakness. They turned their soft underbellies up so far the Rethugs couldn’t take advantage fast enough. I’m thoroughly disgusted.

EvilDrPuma @ 65

Threats and revenge aren’t part of my reaction to this. Grave disappointment and a deep desire for these people to know and pay the price for my disapproval is. And I think the survey is in more that spirit.

agreed

Pres. Ahmadinejad is very verbally aggressive. But in Iran itself, the people don’t pay him much attention. HIs position is ceremonial, his power extremely limited.
Many Iranians are ready for the “revolutionary” regime of the mullahs to be over, and interestingly, rearely express hostility to us, American people, just our crazy government.
There was a great link this a.m. to a piece from an Iranian professor about how our demonizing Ahmadinejad builds him up far beyond his usual status at home. I’ll look for it.

So is he just macho then?

Morales (sp?) was on the Daily Show last night, Boliva his country is getting a lot more money from the oil companies now that the government took control of the oil.
Instead of tax breaks for oil companies which are supposed to be used to drill and refine more oil, but are instead used to enrich shareholders, how about we follow Boliva’s example?
All taxes on oil are to be used to pay the military budget and for medical care for our troops.
I think all taxes should be linked to a specific expense so that people can understand how the government pays for stuff.

CT at 58

you are too clever, bro

Oklahoma kiddo @ 45

If we are spending $12 billion per month on the Iraq and Afghan war (Gates has asked for a 1/3 increase) how much extra will the coming Iran war cost?

Hopefully a lot, We may then run out of money and/or the ablity to borrow it, especially with the decline in the value of the dollar. That would force up interest rates and put us in a recession.

I know this sounds kind of evil but if they feel enough pain, maybe the public will wake up. Something has to veer us off this course before it is truly catastrophic. There’s not much time.

ifthethunderdontgetya @ 27

selise @ 15

first choice would be to try to educate them… by inviting them here for a discussion. do they understand what they have done? i’m not willing to assume that based on the level of ignorance i’ve witnessed in various congress critters.

if a polite discussion doesn’t help… i.e. they are not willing to act differently in the future, then i think you ought to consider cutting them off.

very sad… but imo, it’s better to concentrate on those candidates who best represent us.

that said, my opinion should not count for much, as i don’t have lots of $$$ to donate.

I voted to ask them all to explain their votes. It shows we are watching and interested in what they do with our support.

It also gives us a chance to find out what in the name of hell are they thinking about?

I’d hazard a guess that they are hearing far too much pearl clutching from the inside the Beltway crowd, and not enough from the majority of Americans who want this occupation ended.

I agree.

Digby, as usual gets to the heart of it. McCarthy Lite.

McCarthy would have been thrilled to have a vote like this today. Over the moon. There was nothing he liked more than forcing the Democrats to repudiate their allies and bow down like supplicants to someone they knew was completely full of shit. It set the stage for everything that has come since.

And on top of all of this, I just got an e-mail from Angie Paccione announcing that she’s dropping out of the race in CO-04 to take a job.

What about the money I gave her yesterday? Can we at least get it back into Blue Americas PAC account?

My rep is playing the immigration game 24/7.

As far as I can tell, he thinks about nothing but illegal immigrants day and night- has debates about illegals, sponsops bills ta keep em out or fence em- or to send em back or whatever.

Fuckin boring. Would sure love to see him lose come 08.

I”D take any dem over this piece of shit

I think step 1 has to be cutting off any money to them for the rest of the year (not just rest of quarter). They can also show up and try to explain themselves… But, we really gotta hold all of ‘em accoutable. And just explaining is awfully easy — money gets attentions.

rwcole @ 78

I”D take any dem over this piece of shit

but the dccc can get you “any dem’ (more dems)

isn’t blue america about getting better dems?

Snarkassandra said:

So is he just macho then?

LOL, Cassie! Yes, but I suspect it’s a bit more than that. I believe he really is not very well educated. He really seems to believe some of his fables about the Holocaust not happening.
I don’t know much about his background. When he was elected there was a rumor that he was one of the “student” hostage-takers in ‘79, but I never heard whether that was accurate.
But his position, president, is nothing like the US president’s position. It is more like France, where the Prime Minister runs the government, but the President appears at important state occasions. We combine the two, and too often assume other countries’ presidents have the same authority as ours.

Jonathan @ 73

CT at 58

you are too clever, bro

…for my own good!!! ;-)

lee5 @ 79

I think step 1 has to be cutting off any money to them for the rest of the year (not just rest of quarter). They can also show up and try to explain themselves… But, we really gotta hold all of ‘em accoutable. And just explaining is awfully easy — money gets attentions.

You’re right–just explaining is easy. That’s why I would like to see a second survey to determine whether the explanation was good enough, and if not, what should be done about it.

Piss me off. Beyond the pale indeed, simply egregious. I would remove them all and leave to them the choice of whether to ask for an opportunity to come on Blue America to explain. No invitation from BA, not even the time of day, without a sincere request. Hat in hand optional.

OT–

With the support of a few Firepups, David Niewert’s fine FDL article on Rathergate a few days ago has made the top 10 list of “This Week’s Top Rated Stories (Independent Sources)“, out of 24 stories reviewed.

Bob in HI

One scary thing. The the next election is barely more than a year away. And my party’s numbers are not exactly zooming. Perhaps the public is searching for a real choice, and sees none.

Replace McNerney, Hall, Murphy and Shea-Porter with a new Blue America general donation account called “In Your Face, Bush Dogs“.

Forward all proceeds of this account to MoveOn.

i am really learning to despise congress (with the standard exemptions like feingold)

not dislike, but despise them with a white hot fury.

this is not a pleasant place to be.

*xyz @ 87

Replace McNerney, Hall, Murphy and Shea-Porter with a new Blue America general donation account called “In Your Face, Bush Dogs“.

Forward all proceeds of this account to MoveOn.

I like it.

*xyz @ 87

Replace McNerney, Hall, Murphy and Shea-Porter with a new Blue America general donation account called “In Your Face, Bush Dogs“.

Forward all proceeds of this account to MoveOn.

Not a bad idea perhaps.

selise @ 88

i am really learning to despise congress (with the standard exemptions like feingold)

not dislike, but despise them with a white hot fury.

this is not a pleasant place to be.

And they probably still believe the pundits, that their low, low polls are because they just aren’t republican enough.

EvilDrPuma @ 65

things come undone @ 48

Anybody have some serious ideas about threats and revenge? If we can’t punish people who screw us on the big things we might as well give up.

Threats and revenge aren’t part of my reaction to this. Grave disappointment and a deep desire for these people to know and pay the price for my disapproval is. And I think the survey is in more that spirit.

Threats are a warning that there will be consequences, paying the price for your disapproval.
How is that differnt than my Dictionary defination of Revenge “retaliation for an injury or wrong”
I am not suggesting violence but a few mean TV ads and a sustained endlessly repeated lefty blog campaign against traitors you know like we did against Holy Joe!

selise @ 88

i am really learning to despise congress (with the standard exemptions like feingold)

not dislike, but despise them with a white hot fury.

this is not a pleasant place to be.

selise,

Do you think you’ll ever get to the point where you shout, “Revolution”?

CTuttle @ 7

Zorge @ 4

Only fair to give ‘em a warning and ask for an explanation. After this though, if there is a continued tendancy towards this behaviour, cut ‘em off at the spigot, as they used to say down home.

That’s the way I voted… I’m pleased that both my reps from Hawaii voted Nay!!! 8-)

Yeah, but unfortunately Akaka(!) voted for the Liarman More War Resolution. At least this time there was some actual debate, and Jim Webb did a good job making the case against Liarman.

Bob in HI

EvilDrPuma @ 52

SnarKassandra @ 44

Is Tehran really aggressive or are they making that part up?

Way I figure it, Cassie, is that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad knows how to talk tough just like Bush, but unlike Bush, he hasn’t actually destroyed any entire countries. Not even his own.

What it comes down to is this. Iran is like us. The people don’t want war, and they dislike their president a lot, but don’t want to start a revolution over it.

selise @ 88

i am really learning to despise congress (with the standard exemptions like feingold)

not dislike, but despise them with a white hot fury.

this is not a pleasant place to be.

We are a tiny $$ force who also happen to be very noisy and correct most of the time.. Marathon not a sprint..)

Oklahoma kiddo @ 86

One scary thing. The the next election is barely more than a year away. And my party’s numbers are not exactly zooming. Perhaps the public is searching for a real choice, and sees none.

I don’t think it’s that simple. Congress is pulling 11 percent approval in part because many Rethugs will automatically bad-mouth anything run by a Democrat, whether or not they even know anything about it. But a lot of what’s going on is that people voted for Democrats in 06 because they wanted a change from the Republicans’ corrupt and indecent policies…and too many Dems haven’t made much of a good faith effort to make that change. On the other hand, what are voters going to do next year–go back to the Rethugs and vote them in to change themselves? Not…going…to…happen.

We may see a low turnout next year, but my guess is that the turnout will still go Democratic. We can only hope that there are alternatives challenging some of the current deadwood.

Jonathan @ 93

selise @ 88

i am really learning to despise congress (with the standard exemptions like feingold)

not dislike, but despise them with a white hot fury.

this is not a pleasant place to be.

selise,

Do you think you’ll ever get to the point where you shout, “Revolution”?

only if nonviolent.

I did not read the comments and only scanned the post, but I have to say I am disgusted with what is called congress today. Their vote to “condemn” the MoveOn ad is completely rediculous. I cannot believe the world I live in where congress thinks they should do something like this. Why didn’t more people stand up in that organization and say “WTF?” Why did this even have to happen. The world has gone completely mad.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 86

One scary thing. The the next election is barely more than a year away. And my party’s numbers are not exactly zooming. Perhaps the public is searching for a real choice, and sees none.

yeah, well, huh … :-)

I suppose it’s too late now, but I wonder about the effectiveness of an old fashioned picket line in front of the office buildings of the offenders with their names on the placards and signs stating clearly that your picketing for Freedom of Speech and Expression? Something like what Michael Moore would do.

bobschacht @ 94

CTuttle @ 7

That’s the way I voted… I’m pleased that both my reps from Hawaii voted Nay!!! 8-)

Yeah, but unfortunately Akaka(!) voted for the Liarman More War Resolution. At least this time there was some actual debate, and Jim Webb did a good job making the case against Liarman.

Bob in HI

I’m awaiting a response from Akaka’s office for that vote, I’ll try and post it on your blog when, or if, I receive one…!!!

We have more troops in Iraq under this Congress than the last Congress. What have the Dems done? They are going backwards and I am disgusted. What, do we have the wrong kind of Democrats?

WTF is it going to take to make some progess? These people can’t even hold the line.

There should be a simple rule. If lieberman votes for it, our like-minded people should vote against it. If Lieberman sponsors it, it should be openly ridiculed. SO, How it gets so much traction– and they can ACTUALLY PASS shit — is just beyond me. How come the majority can’t pass anything?!!

stupefying. at best.

:(

I just called my rep’s local office (Maurice Hinchey, D-NY) to thank him for this vote and all the others where he’s stood firm.

tejanarusa @ 91

And they probably still believe the pundits, that their low, low polls are because they just aren’t republican enough.

can’t they realize that if people want to vote for a f*ckin republican, they’ll vote for a ‘thug, not a ‘thug-lite mascerading as a dem? jeez ….

If y’all want to hold these folks feet to the fire over this, fine. My personal view is that condemnation of MoveOn is utterly irrelevant. It’s certainly not going to change how MoveOn behaves, and it’s certainly not going to change how often and how much I give to MoveOn.

But let’s be smart about what y’all are proposing to do, OK? Now is not the time to piss off Congresscritters whose votes will be desperately needed if we’re going to have any chance to override the veto of SCHIP.

Can we just chill for 7-10 days?

SnarKassandra @ 71

Pres. Ahmadinejad is very verbally aggressive. But in Iran itself, the people don’t pay him much attention. HIs position is ceremonial, his power extremely limited.
Many Iranians are ready for the “revolutionary” regime of the mullahs to be over, and interestingly, rearely express hostility to us, American people, just our crazy government.
There was a great link this a.m. to a piece from an Iranian professor about how our demonizing Ahmadinejad builds him up far beyond his usual status at home. I’ll look for it.

So is he just macho then?

One of the first books to comment on “human” nature was “The Naked Ape” IIRC illustrated the róle dominance played in social affairs of groups. Other studies of “alpha” dominance also shed light on which personality type obtains leadership position. Macho is a cartoon of these other studies. Hope this helps explain a much more complex interaction. It is worthwhile studying in its own right as well.

Jonathan @ 93

selise @ 88

i am really learning to despise congress (with the standard exemptions like feingold)

not dislike, but despise them with a white hot fury.

this is not a pleasant place to be.

selise,

Do you think you’ll ever get to the point where you shout, “Revolution”?

Volunteers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER9b0yWGcfs

We are going for a short swim and then I’m going to fix bbq’d catfish sandwiches with hot-sauce, fried okra, Red onion, sliced cuke and tomato salad with iced tea in front of the tv with Olbermann. And Lahoma is upset with today’s vote.

TeddySanFran @ 19

A survey!

I voted “B — invite” as step one. BlueAmerica is the forum for them to explain their vote, and for them to understand our anger. Based on their answers, I could move to A, then maybe C.

Congressional votes matter, especially non-binding votes against free speech. Congresspersons must understand that we are watching their votes and listening to their statements.

I voted 1 with the option of sending an open letter explaining why the vote was a poor choice.

I think you more correct. I would also that I think it more important to tie a reprimand to more important legislation like Webb and kyl-lieberman.

Elliott @ 70

EvilDrPuma @ 65

Threats and revenge aren’t part of my reaction to this. Grave disappointment and a deep desire for these people to know and pay the price for my disapproval is. And I think the survey is in more that spirit.

agreed

well-put, indeed.

the most-potent counter-punch
is more speech — speech just like
the original moveon.org advert — we
know that they can blow out a candle,
but they can’t blow out a bon-fire. . .

to that end, i just finished another
“nightly nolo” video — in solidarity,
i’ve highlighted the rice-iraq-blackwater
obstruction play, currently running before
henry waxman’s oversight committee. . .

it’s only one minute long — do take a look!

i urge everyone to make a youtube, and
put it out there — more speech — more! — is
the most effective counter-punch to those
who would have us silenced. . .

“makes me wanna’ holla’. . .”

p e a c e

burnspbesq @ 106

If y’all want to hold these folks feet to the fire over this, fine. My personal view is that condemnation of MoveOn is utterly irrelevant. It’s certainly not going to change how MoveOn behaves, and it’s certainly not going to change how often and how much I give to MoveOn.

But let’s be smart about what y’all are proposing to do, OK? Now is not the time to piss off Congresscritters whose votes will be desperately needed if we’re going to have any chance to override the veto of SCHIP.

Can we just chill for 7-10 days?

Yes, let’s keep our powder dry. That’s proven to be a winning strategy.

EvilDrPuma @ 97

Oklahoma kiddo @ 86

One scary thing. The the next election is barely more than a year away. And my party’s numbers are not exactly zooming. Perhaps the public is searching for a real choice, and sees none.

I don’t think it’s that simple. Congress is pulling 11 percent approval in part because many Rethugs will automatically bad-mouth anything run by a Democrat, whether or not they even know anything about it. But a lot of what’s going on is that people voted for Democrats in 06 because they wanted a change from the Republicans’ corrupt and indecent policies…and too many Dems haven’t made much of a good faith effort to make that change. On the other hand, what are voters going to do next year–go back to the Rethugs and vote them in to change themselves? Not…going…to…happen.

We may see a low turnout next year, but my guess is that the turnout will still go Democratic. We can only hope that there are alternatives challenging some of the current deadwood.

i think it’s quite different that what you’ve described. last polling data i saw had republican public giving higher approval to congress than the democratic (or independent) public – here’s ian welsh’s analysis, “Republicans More Happy With the “Democratic” Congress than Democrats“

I just popped in to get the latest on women’s issues.

I voted all three out. This vote was too easy. There was no excuse for them to have gotten it wrong. I have no confidence in them now.

TeddySanFran @ 35

katherine Graham Cracker @ 25

Next time I will know it’s important to ask a lot of questions. A long long long time ago I was active in Common Cause California and we had to be very careful to stick to the good government issues because there were many areas where there was near violent disagreement

I guess I took free speech for granted from BlueAmerica candidates. But I was wrong!
I would never have expected we’d need to ask, “Will you support free speech? Have you an alternative view of the First Amendment?”

mind boggling in fact
it’s like having to ask “Are you a liar?”

Oklahoma kiddo @ 109

We are going for a short swim and then I’m going to fix bbq’d catfish sandwiches with hot-sauce, fried okra, Red onion, sliced cuke and tomato salad with iced tea in front of the tv with Olbermann. And Lahoma is upset with today’s vote.

Isn’t KO pre-empted with the Debate, tonite?

I hope this fits in. I first wrote of the following many, many months ago in connection with the treason of LiarMan: a little-known factoid from our Revolutionary War involved an act by the “Father Of Our Country”, General Washington. In one of his difficult winter encampments, several hundreds of his soldiers deserted. They just fled into the woods.
Washington sent his loyal troops out and rounded up all the deserters. What to do? Washington made a tough decision: he ordered the EXECUTION of about 6 of the leaders of the desertion. Yep, and he carried thru. He executed about a half-dozen by firing squad. He restored order and discipline. A true, but seldom mentioned story about George.
I get the feeling, more and more, that a vast majority of D teamers are now turning a deaf ear to Progressive Democratic policy. I can’t weigh or measure it; I cannot “prove” it by a link. But I smell it…and I feel it in my gut. Mainstream D teamers are turning their backs on us. What to do?
Team Hamsher jumps all over the “rookie” Blue America politicians. That’s fine and dandy. BUT….I think it’s a weaker response.
I think the “targeting” needs to go higher, and stronger. I think it’s time to “target” some mainstays of the D team….to publicly declare them as “targeted” in the next election. I think….it’s time to go after the heavy-weights. Only then will we “teach a lesson” to the main body of D teamers.
Some names? Rahm comes to mind….as does Hoyer. The senior senator from Cal. comes to mind. There are others.
I think it’s time we stop “bitching” about these people and publicly target them for the next election. Declare them ‘persona non grata” right here and now. And again, I think that putting all focus on the “rookies” doesn’t cure the overall harm. Bolder action is needed.
That’s what I think.

Ghostman

Oklahoma kiddo @ 109

We are going for a short swim and then I’m going to fix bbq’d catfish sandwiches with hot-sauce, fried okra, Red onion, sliced cuke and tomato salad with iced tea in front of the tv with Olbermann. And Lahoma is upset with today’s vote.

Is Boren your Congresscritter?

brendancalling @ 53

I mean serious,y what the fucking point of helping these people if all we get is lip service to our issues (if that) and a stab in the back for telling the truth?

After all the money and time we’ve given these people, never mind support when no one else would stand up. How many petitions have I signed defending this guy or that guy from right wing bullshit attacks.

Fuck it. next time some asshole democrat sticks his foot in his or her mouth, that person can go to fucking hell. I’m just so fucking angry right now. Fucking seething.

Arthur Silber is right.

Where were you before? I thought you lived in Philly(which would mean Fatah or Brady).

I think if you are going to hold their feet to the fire, it should be over substantive legislation. And based on a pattern of votes, not a single vote.

I’m so disappointed with Jon Hall. He is not my congressman but I had high hopes for him from the beginning. I would like for him to come on BA and explain his vote.

CTuttle @ 117

Oklahoma kiddo @ 109

We are going for a short swim and then I’m going to fix bbq’d catfish sandwiches with hot-sauce, fried okra, Red onion, sliced cuke and tomato salad with iced tea in front of the tv with Olbermann. And Lahoma is upset with today’s vote.

Isn’t KO pre-empted with the Debate, tonite?

Hopefully he is doing after debate analysis with Tweety.

*xyz @ 112

burnspbesq @ 106

If y’all want to hold these folks feet to the fire over this, fine. My personal view is that condemnation of MoveOn is utterly irrelevant. It’s certainly not going to change how MoveOn behaves, and it’s certainly not going to change how often and how much I give to MoveOn.

But let’s be smart about what y’all are proposing to do, OK? Now is not the time to piss off Congresscritters whose votes will be desperately needed if we’re going to have any chance to override the veto of SCHIP.

Can we just chill for 7-10 days?

Yes, let’s keep our powder dry. That’s proven to be a winning strategy.

It’s been high and dry for so long its’ degraded…!!! 8-(

Eureka Springs @ 96

We are a tiny $$ force who also happen to be very noisy and correct most of the time.. Marathon not a sprint..)

yes. but i’d like to see a bit more progress. a marathon that puts me behind is not my idea of progress.

again, though, we’re not really behind… i’m just learning that things were worse than i thought.

and i really, really hate being manipulated and lied to… by people who pretent to represent my interests.

I sent Rep. Lee’s letter to McNerney’s office asking for him to sign on (posted on FDL, I think on 9/14). I received a auto-response from his office with the message that “we received your message.” No answer, no response, and the last time I checked, he was not signed on to the letter.

Since he is my Rep. and the prospect of the Republican candidate unseating him next fall is really awful, my vote is to remove him from Blue America. It pains me, but it has to be done.

homework time. bye. back later

CTuttle @ 117

Oklahoma kiddo @ 109

We are going for a short swim and then I’m going to fix bbq’d catfish sandwiches with hot-sauce, fried okra, Red onion, sliced cuke and tomato salad with iced tea in front of the tv with Olbermann. And Lahoma is upset with today’s vote.

Isn’t KO pre-empted with the Debate, tonite?

If so I am disappointed. I’d rather have Olbermann. For us the guide says “Countdown” is at seven and the debate is at eight.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 109

We are going for a short swim and then I’m going to fix bbq’d catfish sandwiches with hot-sauce, fried okra, Red onion, sliced cuke and tomato salad with iced tea in front of the tv with Olbermann. And Lahoma is upset with today’s vote.

Hmmm-if I jump in the car right now and head north – will there be any barbecue left when I get there? (about 11 hrs, last time I drove it)?
Sounds like the perfect evening, OKK

scout211 @ 126

I sent Rep. Lee’s letter to McNerney’s office asking for him to sign on (posted on FDL, I think on 9/14). I received a auto-response from his office with the message that “we received your message.” No answer, no response, and the last time I checked, he was not signed on to the letter.

Since he is my Rep. and the prospect of the Republican candidate unseating him next fall is really awful, my vote is to remove him from Blue America. It pains me, but it has to be done.

Maybe McNerney actually believes that his new Republican friends will chip in for his campaign and volunteer on his behalf…

Tucker mentioned FireDogLake. Is that the big time?

Fern @ 121

I think if you are going to hold their feet to the fire, it should be over substantive legislation. And based on a pattern of votes, not a single vote.

how about the fact that ALL of them voted FOR lantos’ anti-iran bill yesterday?

it’s not like there’s been this pattern of perfect voting and the moveon vote is a one off.

there is a tendency for those who think of themselves (and vote accordingly with their dollars) as netroots to seek recognition for their importance in the political process

i do not citicize this

i simply say, there comes a time in history when thinking people must not only think and express themselves as best possible, but take action

action is action

it is not what a serene rational person would ever wish

How significant are BA contributions in the grand scheme of a candidates campaign finances? For example, what percent of McNerney’s campaign budget came from BA?

Badwater @ 131

Tucker mentioned FireDogLake. Is that the big time?

It might be if more people watched Tucker.

Teddy has a new post up…

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..s/#respond

selise @ 132

Fern @ 121

I think if you are going to hold their feet to the fire, it should be over substantive legislation. And based on a pattern of votes, not a single vote.

how about the fact that ALL of them voted FOR lantos’ anti-iran bill yesterday?

it’s not like there’s been this pattern of perfect voting and the moveon vote is a one off.

YES! I think that is the one to make an issue of. Not this MoveOn thing.

I have a modest proposal.

Regardless of how FDL and Blue America respond to Blue America (and other) Democrats who voted to suppress free speech, I would like to see the Blue America candidates who voted AGAINST censure come on FDL and explain why and how they mustered the courage to do so.

Maybe they can give us some perspective on the issue, and describe what kind of pressures they were subjected to and how they were able to withstand those pressures. That would give us some talking points with which to confront those who voted to suppress free speech: “If these good Democrats were able to vote against this travesty, why weren’t you?”

neurophius @ 138

I have a modest proposal.

Regardless of how FDL and Blue America respond to Blue America (and other) Democrats who voted to suppress free speech, I would like to see the Blue America candidates who voted AGAINST censure come on FDL and explain why and how they mustered the courage to do so.

Maybe they can give us some perspective on the issue, and describe what kind of pressures they were subjected to and how they were able to withstand those pressures. That would give us some talking points with which to confront those who voted to suppress free speech: “If these good Democrats were able to vote against this travesty, why weren’t you?”

This is brilliant.

jane – what do you think? i trust your judgement a lot…

song for McNerny:

“Let Down” by Radiohead:

…
the emptiest of feelings,
disappointed people, clinging on to proverbs,
and when it comes it’s so, so, disappointing.

Let down and hanging around,
crushed like a bug in the ground.
Let down and hanging around.

Badwater @ 131

Tucker mentioned FireDogLake. Is that the big time?

Hmmmm, I wouldn’t call him “big time”.
BTW, what was the context?

Badwater @ 131

Tucker mentioned FireDogLake. Is that the big time?

he thinks so

burnspbesq @ 119

Oklahoma kiddo @ 109

We are going for a short swim and then I’m going to fix bbq’d catfish sandwiches with hot-sauce, fried okra, Red onion, sliced cuke and tomato salad with iced tea in front of the tv with Olbermann. And Lahoma is upset with today’s vote.

Is Boren your Congresscritter?

No. We are in southwestern Oklahoma.

Teddy is upstairs

SnarKassandra @ 44

Is Tehran really aggressive or are they making that part up?

Tehran held 53 of our hostages for 444 days and didn’t let them go until after Carter left office. I don’t think we’ve ever forgiven that, much less forgotten.

OTOH, Here is what wiki says about our involvement in deposing their democracy and putting the shah into power:

In 1953, members of the British Intelligence Service invited the United States under President Eisenhower to join them in Operation Ajax to overthrow Iran’s democracy. President Eisenhower agreed, authorizing the CIA to take the lead in the operation of overthrowing Mossadegh and reinstalling a US-friendly monarch. The CIA faced many setbacks, but eventually succeeded.

I don’t think they’ve ever forgiven and forgotten that either.

SnarKassandra @ 44

Is Tehran really aggressive or are they making that part up?

Good question, Cassie.
The answer, unfortunately, looks complicated to me. What Lieberman’s resolution is aimed at is a particular segment of Iranian armed forces that has actually been active beyond Iran’s borders– Kinda like our “Special Forces”.

But we also have to consider the Badr Organization, which has one of the main Shi’ite militias in Iraq, and according to the Wikipedia,

was the armed wing of the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council (SIIC). Headed by Hadi Al-Amiri it participated in the 2005 Iraqi election as part of the United Iraqi Alliance coalition. Its members have entered the new Iraqi army and police force.

The Organization was based in Iran for two decades during the rule of Saddam Hussein. It consisted of several thousand Iraqi exiles, refugees, and defectors who fought alongside Iran in the Iran-Iraq War. Returning to Iraq following the 2003 coalition invasion the group changed its name from brigade to organization in response to the attempted voluntary disarming of Iraqi militias by the Coalition Provisional Authority. It has pledged to give up its arms when the security situation is resolved. . . .

Its members were drawn from pro-Iranian Iraqi Shia political and religious dissidents. The Badr forces fought alongside Iran in the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988). Before 2003, it was based in Iran for two decades during the rule of Saddam Hussein.

I would call them a “wild card”. If we start bombing Iran, I suspect these guys would not be sympathetic to our guys in Iraq. I think they’re lying low right now, but I can’t tell.

Bob in HI

My two cents is that the best way for us “little people” to tell Congress to STFU and get some ral work done is to go and contribute over at MoveOn. That’s what I did and although it was not much it is what I can afford. If a lot of us do the same this whole fiasco can be turned around to our advantage by putting more bullets in the MoveOn gun.

selise @ 140

jane – what do you think? i trust your judgement a lot…

Selise I honestly don’t know. That’s why I put up the poll. I wanted to get a sense of where the community was at and I didn’t know any other way to do that.

Jane Hamsher @ 149

selise @ 140

jane – what do you think? i trust your judgement a lot…

Selise I honestly don’t know. That’s why I put up the poll. I wanted to get a sense of where the community was at and I didn’t know any other way to do that.

thank jane… maybe it will take a bit to wrap our minds around what’s been happening.

thanks for asking us… you’re the best.

I know Jerry McNerney has disappointed us before, but he replaced the repugnant Richard Pombo.

On one hand: what’s the difference, if McNerney votes the same way Pombo would’ve?

OTOH: what if the good people of Tracy, CA choose someone even worse next time around? Like Pombo again?

Am I over-thinking this?

I am just as amazed and disgusted, as many posters here, by many of these votes. I had such high hopes for Chris Murphy (CT-5) and now this? There is something terribly smelly in DC and I have a feeling we can’t actually do anything about it….ACK!

Apologies, but I haven’t read all the comments yet, but want to say 2 things. 1, no second chances period!!! There is no room for error in this battle to take our country back! 2, I think the results of our efforts tell us that now is the time for us to instead form a 3rd party. I think with the proper backing (moveon, etc) and unity of the grassroots, we could field viable candidates that more closely align with the American public. I really think the time is ripe!

Morris Sheppard @ 74

Oklahoma kiddo @ 45

If we are spending $12 billion per month on the Iraq and Afghan war (Gates has asked for a 1/3 increase) how much extra will the coming Iran war cost?

Hopefully a lot, We may then run out of
money and/or the ablity to borrow it, especially with the decline in the value of the dollar. That would force up interest rates and put us in a recession.

I know this sounds kind of evil but if they feel enough pain, maybe the public will wake up. Something has to veer us off this course before it is truly catastrophic. There’s not much time.

Big Ben is making sure this economy stays on track thru’ the election…they will do anything it takes to make sure that happens.
If the Dems win in ‘08 and the economy falls apart they will be blamed.

selise @ 88

i am really learning to despise congress (with the standard exemptions like feingold)

not dislike, but despise them with a white hot fury.

this is not a pleasant place to be.

Yup, they despise us [Senator Tom Harkin today to the Code Pink protesters at the $197 billion Iraq supplemental hearing: “…and I don’t need a lecture from you about it.”], and now we despise them. I think this is what’s called a ‘failure to communicate.’ We’re motivated to change that. Are they?

Unless we get a progressive president the congress will NOT come around. I really think Edwards is our only hope of real change. I thought any one of the candidates would be okay for a while. But now only Edwards (and Dodd) gives me hope.

Hold the funding on all, and focus on finding state and congressional cradle progressives to run for office..building a movement from the bottom up is always best.

We should definitely ask them to come on line for questions. We can spend some time offering questions, such as–
1) Did you understand the ad?
In my understanding the public official who tells us false information is betraying the public, and betraying the troops who he is sending out to die.
Many of us feel betrayed by our public officials in every branch of government because of their corruption … i.e. their lies.
Did you have a different understanding of the ad when you voted to condemn us–I say “us” because I think the ad represents my views and I am happy with it.
2) Were you lobbied to vote to condemn us by the leadership or by other house members? May we ask, who lobbied you to vote this way?
What arguments did they use? Was there coercion?
3)Were you afraid of being attacked by right wing media figures if you did not vote to condemn us?
4) Have you changed your views since you’ve been in Washington? Do you now believe in the Bush administration’s values? Do you believe that their untruths should not be challenged? Are you doing anything to challenge the corruption, and the lies, and if so, What?
5) Many of us contributed only ten or twenty dollars to your campaign because we cannot afford much. But we did so thinking that you would represent our views. Now you have voted to condemn many of us. Did you think of that when you made your vote?
6) Why should you vote to condemn Moveon, and not vote to condemn Bush, Chaney and company? And why Moveon and not all of the Republican smear merchants in the media who smear Al Gore, say?
7) Have you become afraid to stand up for truth yourself?

Who CARES. It’s a fucking ADVERTISEMENT. The fact that you are debating it is playing right into Republican hands.

petedownunder @ 18

How does Howie feel about this? He put so much effort into these candidates.

Thanks for asking. I think this is a community decision, not a Howie/Jane/John/Digby decision. That’s why we’re doing the poll. I wrote about it twice at Down With Tyranny today. I get one vote, like everyone else and I’m not 100% sure how I’ll cast it yet.

Howie, what is it with these people. Why do they continue to fall for the same tactics again and again? Are they really dumb. or really scared, or really something else?

Congress should go and take a flying f—–k. Worthless shills.

things come undone @ 16

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 3

Jane!!!!

I took the survey. All but McNerney should get a chance to come here and explain themselves. McNerney is on his second chance already, so I voted for him to be removed.

Good point I would have done the same thing if I knew we need a tally of how they vote on issues we care about. Ending the War, Healthcare, spying on Americans etc.

I voted exactly the same way before I started reading the 160 comments here.

But I’m much more concerned about Hillary’s and other Dems’ votes on the Lieberman/Kyl sense of the Senate to support Bush’s plan to bomb Iran. Prepare yourselves for their excuses after the bombing begins: They had not idea this would happen. But Jim Webb was right on. This vote was taken with no hearings, no discussion. What a pitiful performance today for Democrats.

re: 158. I’m not interested in bringing people in and asking what they thought. My guess is they were mindless. Remember when McNerney came on and didn’t answer any questions? I don’t have time to waste asking these folks why they can’t figure out how they are getting manipulated.

Give them an opportunity to explain themselves. After all we want a open government, and open media, so if we don’t offer them them an opportunity to explain themselves, how open are we to views other the our own? However it doesn’t mean that we have to accept them, or continue to support them.

It’s such a thin line, you don’t want candidates to think they can use Blue America for their own gain and walk away. At the same time you have to consider the ramifications of group think like the wingnuts. Considering the level of passion, knowledge and activism involved with this community, I think a consideration has to be made for being receptive to dialagoue about issues that we may not agree with.

Believe me when it comes to free speech there shouldn’t even be a debate in my opinion.

Ish @ 151

OTOH: what if the good people of Tracy, CA choose someone even worse next time around? Like Pombo again?

Am I over-thinking this?

There will be a very strong push here, in fact it has already started heating up. A popular Republican from Stockton, Dean Andal, has already started his campaign. Our district is conservative.

But so far, McNerney has been quite popular here in the district. The local paper seems to lean toward McNerney and his votes so far have been positively received.

This isn’t about whether we should VOTE for him or not. I will definitely still vote for him next fall. This is more about the issues and the progressive values of Blue America. We need to make that very clear.

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 3

Jane!!!!

I took the survey. All but McNerney should get a chance to come here and explain themselves. McNerney is on his second chance already, so I voted for him to be removed.

I really feel sorry for all the volunteers who worked their butts off in McNerney’s campaign last year. What a complete letdown.

I wish I felt like any particular action would make a difference. I found myself outraged as the Senate went from one dismal performance to the next on FISA, Habeas Corpus, either of the withdrawal amendments, and then the attack on MoveOn. Now, with both the House and the Senate strongly in support of strong language against Iran, I’m buffaloed. I’ve emailed my representatives until I’m blue. Their responses are tepid at best. I continue to donate $$ to MoveOn and ActBlue, in hopes … but, I am not optimistic. Jane, what happens if the candidates simply refuse to respond? Unfortunately, I can imagine they might choose to ignore the request for an explanation. I guess that’s ‘good to know’ in a generic way, and maybe it specifies the next step; ie, dropping them entirely. For awhile, although initially excited by the MoveOn ad, I worried that maybe we had gone too far. Now, I fully believe it wouldn’t have mattered how it was worded; the response would have been the same. I no longer have a sense of the Congress. The steering column really feels disconnected from the front wheels. I have the feeling they very much do not want to hear from their constituents, will punish anything anyone says that is inconsistent with their preference, and fully intend to proceed as though the electorate neither exists, nor matters.

Can you tell I’m discouraged? Sorry for the 5 minute Pity Party. Today’s voting was especially difficult to watch.

When Gore declares…many will follow!