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When the MoveOn controversy first broke and the Republicans were wallowing in mock outrage, Hillary Clinton was the only one of the top-tier 08 Presidentials who didn't fall for the patented flim-flam, didn't walk into their trap and play along with plans to distract from the subject of Iraq and at the same time fragment the Democratic party and dis-empower the base.
While Edwards and Obama could not hit their knees fast enough and genuflect before all that Republican bluster, I assumed it was because Hillary had been down that road before, and knew from experience that there was no way to appease the wingnut in high dudgeon. You can grovel and beg and all it will earn you is the opportunity to do more groveling and begging, and it doesn't make you look either strong or qualified for leadership.
Quite predictably, once the Republicans had bullied the Democrats into denouncing their own (and yes, ladies and gentlemen, with over 3 million members MoveOn is your own, like it or not) they began the process of trying to make the "Democrat" party the party of MoveOn. George Bush did it himself, laying a trail of bread crumbs even the Snickers obsessed and the fashion challenged could follow.
Then Rudy began his jihad, saying that Clinton was "attacking" Petraeus by not denouncing MoveOn. Thanks to the sheer naivete of all the Democrats who have not yet internalized the notion that you just don't repeat Republican talking points and reinforce a larger narrative that will only be used against you and your party at large, no matter what, Clinton became low hanging fruit.
And yesterday, in a really disappointing moment, she caved:
“I think it’s important that we end these kinds of attacks on the patriotism of those who serve our country,” Clinton said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” program. “This is not a debate about an ad. This is a debate about the direction we should pursue in Iraq.”
The McCarthy-esque language of Barbara Boxer's amendment seems to have calcified into conventional wisdom within the party. Just tell everybody to shut up and you can appear "above" partisanship.
The Senators who condemned MoveOn do not seem to realize that it's their job to protect free speech, not tell people how and when to exercise it.
The only one who got it right was Russ Feingold, who voted "no" on both the Boxer and Cornyn amendments. Everyone else? "F's" all around.
They need to stay after class and read the Constitution.
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Hello Jane…
can someone tell me why Russ Feingold won’t run for president?
Iranian President Ahmadinejad at C-span
http://www.c-span.org/
yeah jane. yea! Russ!
Jane!
selise! this one’s for you.
Hi Jane!
when do you start treating the dem’s with the contempt they deserve by WILLFULLY remaining ignorant and/or silent?
how much longer do you accept the ‘we didn’t know’ excuse?
Well said Jane!
You can say that again!
Great post.
But I think the word you’re looking for is “naivete” rather than “naitive.”
[Mod: fixed, and thanks]
Jane!
Jane:
Yep. We all jumped the gun on that one. Here’s me two threads back:
EPU’d from earlier thread:
Biodun @ 99
selise I believe was the one who first broke the bad news on FDL that Hillary actually voted to condemn the MoveOn.org ad–by voting for the Boxer Amendment.
Yea Jane…..You go girl.
Doesn’t matter, does it?
the orthodoxy of obligatory support for the least worst, no matter what they do or say, has not shifted much over in Left Blogistan, or has it?
HRC can echo Cheney/neo-con talking points all day long, and still count on support from everyone to the left of Lieberman.
Cognitive dissonance will get really bad if she nukes Iran as commander in chief and you supported her.
Elliott @ 6
Yep. See my 11.
one small quibble: it’s naivete’ …..
(i can’t do that one mark right on me computer)
Biodun @ 14
she’s a caring giving soul
Yeah, I’m thinking sitting down and reading the Constitution needs to be required of all government officials.
Gah!
Amen. E-mailed Boxer to tell her what a joke that resolution was - it pointed out the absurdity of Cornyn’s resolution, but conferred a legitimacy on the whole idea of condemning a f*^cking ad. Absolutely disgraceful.
We need to find more Feingolds.
Great post Jane…just got the Bush Dog email and signed the petition…I hope you all got it and signed…It is time that we tell all these disgusting senators..NOT YOU SENATOR FEINGOLD…we have had enough of them and their spineless actions….They did vote against my free speech because I give to move-on and I APPROVE of that ad.
Meanwhile, let’s not get all depressed, things are worse (as they should be) for the other side of the aisle:
Inside-the-Beltway Republicans have grown frustrated with the NRCC for its unrealistically rosy assessments of an ever-eroding landscape for congressional Republicans.
Lawmakers are frustrated with Cole and his top aides for casting their net too wide by targeting Democratic-controlled seats that Republicans have little chance of picking up next year.
Some also gripe that Cole fails to manage expectations on the Hill when he refuses to acknowledge that the GOP’s chances for regaining the majority fade with every retirement or negative news story about President Bush or scandal-plagued Republican lawmakers.
The quoted text is from Drudgico.
Why couldn’t the Dems just say: “When the Republicans denounce Rush Limbaugh, denounce the Swiftboaters, denounce Bill O’Reilly, denounce Fox News Channel, denounce Glenn Beck, denounce Michael Savage, denounce Sean Hannity, denounce Ann Coulter, denounce Bill Kristol…..then, and only then, would we even consider questioning an ad by MoveOn”
Tangentially O/T, but fun.
Wayne Madsen Report - “Lost” Nukes were on the way to Iran
“Lost” B-52 nuke cruise missiles were on way to Middle East for attack on Iran; Air Force refused to fly weapons to Middle East theater.
WMR has learned from U.S. and foreign intelligence sources that the B-52 transporting six stealth AGM-129 Advanced Cruise Missiles, each armed with a W-80-1 nuclear warhead, on August 30, were destined for the Middle East via Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana.
However, elements of the Air Force, supported by U.S. intelligence agency personnel, successfully revealed the ultimate destination of the nuclear weapons and the mission was aborted due to internal opposition within the Air Force and U.S. Intelligence Community.
Yesterday, the Washington Post attempted to explain away the fact that America’s nuclear command and control system broke down in an unprecedented manner by reporting that it was the result of “security failures at multiple levels.” It is now apparent that the command and control breakdown, reported as a BENT SPEAR incident to the Secretary of Defense and White House, was not the result of a command and control chain-of-command “failures” but the result of a revolt and push back by various echelons within the Air Force and intelligence agencies against a planned U.S. attack on Iran using nuclear and conventional weapons.
______
Right. Wayne Madsen. LOL!
It’s an advertisement.
In a newspaper.
Big whoopie! Where was our boy in allowing a super majority vote on his or Webbs bill?
The interesting thing for me was that when selise first broke that bad news at FDL on a thread, very few people picked up on it. Some were still praising Hillary on the same thread for voting against Cronyn’s Amendment…
Ish @ 18
Lots and lots of primary challenges. Term limits are starting to make more and more sense. Stay in Washington too long and you disappear into the beltway neverland.
theWalrus @ 21
That would take a spine, and would take real leadership…Not in this senate.
As I said last night:
Now complimented with:
Um, is Hillary *aware* of the right-wing noise machine, and the way *they* question the patriotism and motives of everyone to the left of Joe Lieberman?
Or does she just figure, “Fuck it, I don’t need any Democratic base/left-wing votes to win the primary, and then they’ll *have* to vote for me in the general election”?
I’d suggest someone introduce a bill sarcastically offering to limit the First Amendment (especially in light of the Ahmedinejad-in-America bed-wetting from the right and center), but I’m afraid that it would pass resoundingly.
I don’t quite get Russ Feingold. He is “right” on most issues but doesn’t seem to provide leadership. He is on the SJC but never seems to be there busting the Republican’s balls.
from Out of right field, conservatives gush over Clinton
By Matt Stearns
McClatchy Newspapers
if one wants to oppose neo-con policies that are wrecking this country and the middle east, the least one could do is have the virtue of consistency and not support a neo-con candidate who simply has a (D) after their name.
Ish @ 18
Ditto and ditto. Emailed, too. Told her I didn’t elect her to have her tell me to shut up.
And I say again:
I think it’s a disgrace that the US Senate voted to attack the First Amendment of the US Constitution. And it happened under Chimpy’s administration.
I generally don’t support the “I’m done” or “goodbye cruel word (GBCW)” sentiments, but I’m feeling like I’m doing nothing constructive caring about politics, just wasting my time. Helping to get Amy Klobuchar elected in Minnesota, probably the biggest success for me so far, has been a huge disappointment, considering how she voted to expand Bush’s spying powers (and continues to try and justify it), and now is helping the government dictate appropriate speech.
I’ve always been a dutiful voter, and take care to inform myself. But after the theft of the presidency in 2000 I became more active. Or so I thought. Now I realize I’ve had no effect on anything. Places like FDL are helpful, but all of the contributions from me personally (helping the party, giving money to candidates, etc.) have been fruitless.
Blah. Thanks for your indulgence, I’m just really disgusted.
Bush has announced the HRC will be the nominee. The right is proclaiming HRC the nominee because they are aware that many of us loyal Dems are just not THAT loyal enough to vote for her (she scares me!) and would rather stay home next November.
There is not a sound set of testicles in the entire Democratic Congress.
Hillary was on every fucking show Sunday morning. She isn’t going to get on every show by taking Moveon’s side. They even put Brooks in the lineup for her. Obama is through.
All I can say is Arggghhh.
I fell for it…again.
I specifically noted my happiness in my MoveOn-petition-signing commment that both my senators, Clinton and Schumer, had voted Nay on the Cornyn amendment.
Can we call them the Lucy-crats?
Wondering if anyone caught BillO on Thursday -during a debate over soldiers undergoing a review by an officer named Kearney (sorry, can’t remember rank), BillO criticized Kearney’s integrity & questioned whether is was a villian. Hope KO has this clip.
Chris @ 29
She *should* be! She got a fucking front seat to the noise machine in Bill’s presidencies!
I think as time goes on…Hillary will self destruct…she is getting cocky and he uber advisor wolfson is a dispicable character….they will slip up further…she now thinks she has the primary sewed up..so u will see her triangulating and moving towards LIEbermans views…Observe, it is starting….
She is sooooooo predictable.
BobbyG sorry if I don’t find this quite as amusing.
CEO @ 37
I don’t think the race is over yet.
Chris @ 29
ding-ding!
and until something is done about this, the party of the least-worst will continue to astound its faithful supporters with betrayals and sellouts and ’spinelessness.’
Bobby G @ 23, you need to read Larry Johnson’s take on those nukes.
Elliott @ 43
Me neither, but the media has GOT to stop muzzling all the media-designated “second tier” candidates. How to force that?
I still don’t understand why Harry Reid let that vote get to the floor - anyone heard his reasoning?
Just for the hell of it, I’m just going to repost my #58 from the previous thread, since it fits so well with this subject matter:
The Congressional Dems are triangulating weenies who take the bloggers for granted.
OK, fair enough. We have nowhere else to go.
But in new age media, ignoring an articulate, vocal group that also controls money is stupid.
More ads are coming. More messages that the Congressional Dems don’t control are coming.
They need a strategy to deal with that reality, like, say, standing up to the Reps or taking meaningful steps to end the war.
peanutbutter @ 46
good question,
we soo need to keep hearing the voices of ALL our people running for the office. It’s the only way to get the ultimate candidate to recognize and appreciate what matters to YOU and me.
egregious @ 43
I wouldn’t find it amusing either if I thought it had a microgram of credibility. Way too tinfoil.
My question:
What gives with these Senate Dems? Just what the f*ck gives? As punaise has said: bande de laches…
re sporkovat @32
Exactly. HRC is now the neo-neocon.
Iraq: forever. Realistic universal healthcare: never.
Because “they would never do that”?
BobbyG @ 51
WOULD’NT be too sure of that if I was you!
Diane @ 46
I read it. Having a hard time believing a mutiny like that would simply be covered up. A bit too tinfoil.
When I heard Hillary I was disappointed she didn’t reference our freedom of speech. But what I got from the comments about how we shouldn’t lambast ANYONE who is in the military was a not-to-subtle dig at the swiftboating of Kerry, et.al. She should have mentioned those incidents by name, however.
Now look:
When Chimpy himself says that Hillary will be the Dem nominee, you know we’re getting somewhere.
I keep hoping that someone will step up and be the new “Paul Wellstone”; hasn’t happened and isn’t going to happen with this group of Dems. More Dems and hopefully one leader the the ‘09 class.
LOOK: RANDI RHODES IS RIGHT ON THIS ONE AND THE LIB BLOGGERS WRONG. THE LANGUAGE, THE WORDING OF THE BILL, REQUIRED PASSAGE NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LIKE MOVE ON AND THINK PETRAUES IS A LIAR.
If a Dem voted against it, the Rethuglicans would say they are against the troops. Which makes sense if you read the actual resolution. I was mad as hell too until I read the resolution. Let’s face it: when it comes to shitty tactics, Republicans are waaaay better at it than Dems.
Resolved, That it is the sense of the Senate–
(1) to reaffirm its support for all the men and women of the United States Armed Forces, including General David H. Petraeus, Commanding General, Multi-National Force–Iraq;
(2) to strongly condemn any effort to attack the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all the members of the United States Armed Forces; and
(3) to specifically repudiate the unwarranted personal attack on General Petraeus by the liberal activist group Moveon.org.
This Mike Thompson editorial cartoon is excellent, pointed, and on-topic.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.....68/OPINION
BobbyG @ 23
See also Larry Johnson at NoQuarterUSA.net and althespook’s blog Ratiocinations (ratiocinatonsofasavageheart.blogspot.com).
Wayne is behind the curve here. The rest of us figured out where those were going a couple of weeks ago.
Except that the swiftboating of Kerry, and the morphing of Cleland and Daschle into our enemies, was false. The statements MoveOn made about Petraeus were true — and backed by fact-references.
This minor point seems to get lost, especially in the wee head of Barbara Boxer.
C @ 58:
I don’t quite understand what you’re saying here…
Franco @ 56
Look, if you’re gonna put your ass on the line in mutiny of a Bu’ush administration directive ‘cuz you think they’ve gone so beyond the pale, why not go all the way and out them? After all, you’re screwed, and if these cats are that loose cannon — with all that such implies for the future of humanity — outing them would neuter them.
Just doesn’t pass the smell test to me at this point. Merely voicing some skepticism. Y’know, BTW, Madsen is like the proverbial broken clock that is “right” twice a day.
peanutbutter:
@40: Yep. And I think she learned the lesson: It’s a lot easier to make “the left” your enemy in politics than to make “the right” your enemy. So, here she is.
@46: “the media has GOT to stop muzzling all the media-designated ’second tier’ candidates.” Actually, while I agree with that on philosophical grounds, it *does* represent a certain helpful limitation, that may reduce the field to Hillary and an anti-Hillary candidate faster, which may be better for us. I suppose we have a couple problems, though; one is whether we should invest time in fighting that tendency of the media (on general principles, or for a political benefit, or both, or how to decide how to make that choice), and another problem is that the same political-media establishment that wants to coronate Hillary (whether as a ratings wet dream, since it guarantees 4-8 years of Clinton political chatter and attacks, or because she’s most compatible with them) is *not* going to do much to help us get anyone else any traction, whether it’s *eight* non-Hillary candidates or *one*.
Tinfoil or no, I fail to understand how the plane’s crew wouldn’t have known. Pilots are meticulous about weight and its distribution. One thing that nuclear materials are is heavy. Think lead .
Six Heavy nuke tipped cruise missiles is just not a bag of peanuts in the seat-back pocket. Which then leads to, they had to know; which leads to, there was a plan to move them.
why cant we draft russ feingold?? if ever there’s a time for a stand-up man to run THIS IS THAT TIME!! i will not vote for hillary - she doesnt surprise me ever
Albert @ 49
Of course we have somewhere to go… on election day 2008 you can go to your garden and tend it, stir the compost a bit, or go rafting down the green river, or fly a kite, or anything soul-enhancing other than the soul-damaging participation in a debased, de-legitimized, hollow political ritual.
Picking submissively between two neo-cons who want to rule you is bad for one’s self esteem, I would think.
And then one is tainted by their actions in office, if they, as promised, inflict Guernica-like horrors on the people of Iran.
If I were queen of everything my 2008 ticket
Russ Feingold/Barbara Lee
As for Boxer, I am tired of her patronizing attitude toward left Californians that she always knows a better strategy. She is just a shorter version of Difi
I wish the Dems in Congress and those running for president were a little more interested in the 50 percent of the country that’s left fo center and a little less interested in trying to get the votes of the ‘moderate Republicans’ they think are still out there.
(FWIW, I find that Hillary’s views are those of the Republicans of the seventies … and I wouldn’t vote for them, either.)
don’t know if this is linked to yet, haven’t read the comments, but think progress is right on point with this thread here, bold is mine;
when they say they “voted for bush”, I sure hope they didn’t mean the second time around…anyway, a good bit of information for future linkage
katherine Graham Cracker @ 69
No, she actually isn’t. I don’t know why she put this bill in but Barbara has always been a very liberal and progessive person. I don’t agree with everything she does (think Lieberman)but I like her very much.
sporkovat @ 69
Don’t complain about the results you get, then.
thanks so much for this post, jane! once again senator feingold does the right thing (even if it does it alone), and i am very happy to see him get the credit he deserves for it.
and thank you also to elliot and biodun, who had to read so many of my rants here on the moveon vote… it’s just that i had listened to the senate floor debate (yuck!) and it was very clear that the D senators were very happy to condemn moveon (and therefore us), the only question was who else (if anyone) should also be condemned. but the issue seemed important enough to me… even to the point of getting in a bit of a tiff with ian welsh (and i’m a big fan, having followed his writing since bopnews days).
just to once again give the links, so folks can check it out for themselves:
Cornyn Amdt. No. 2934 (roll call vote)
Boxer Amdt. No. 2947 (roll call vote)
and i’ll look for senator boxer’s statement on the senate floor…
In the midst of all this partisan messaging, where is Howard Dean. I don’t recall hearing much from him lately.
So Hillary caved. Again. Big deal.
Hillary doesn’t know squat about Economics, either.
Why listen to this windbag?
Related to the subject of staying home gardening on election day:
As small scale protest that hopefully isn’t isolated: I removed myself from the DNC, DSCC, DCCC distribution lists and made a donation to MoveOn. I’ve accompanied this by emails to the personal accounts of the leaders of these orgs explaining that I’ve done so and why.
Diane @ 45
YES. Good subject for another thread.
theWalrus @ 22
They could have, and should have.
hmmm feingold/lee ticket - i could really get behind that ticket ;o)!
TeddySanFran @ 64
exactly… this is why i think the boxer amendment was possibly even worse than the cornyn amendment.
swiftboating = moveon?
i call BS.
katherine Graham Cracker @ 69
The two of them - my senators - do have a very paternal/patronizing view of the consituents. Every time I e-mail, I get back a canned response which leads me to believe they aren’t even tuned in. They’re dancing around the room to the sound of static.
bellesouth @ 9
KEEP REPEATING THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN!
Ann in AZ @ 79
The last 20 some odd years of being pummeled by the right has left the Dems punch drunk. Pivot and attack seems to be beyond them.
This is one of the many reasons why I’m not voting.
We are not going to get the change we need in this country through a phony election of phony people who are nothign more than copiorate shills whose fealty is to the preservation the status quo at any cost.
There is no reason to continue this charade so much as a nanosecond longer.
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Donald Trump has some advice for President Bush if he wants a Republican to win the White House: Hide.
The business mogul and vocal critic of the Bush administration told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer Monday that he thinks the president is a “huge liability” for any Republican seeking the White House. Trump went on to say the best thing Bush can do for his party is to go into “hiding.”
“I think President Bush has to go into a corner and hide if a Republican is going to get elected,” he said. “There is no way he is an asset. He is a huge liability, and he is going to have to do a big, big hiding act if a Republican is going to win.”
So has anyone heard a response from Reid on why this amendment was allowed to hit the floor?
please people, don’t talk about not voting.
If we don’t get someone in there who will rein in this out of control Supreme Court, we are gonna be f****d down to our great grand children.
Way OT, but I’m just furious. The headline at abcnews.com reads “GM Workers Strike Trying to Maintain $70 an Hour”. Then you read the article and it’s not mentioned. The bias is sickening.
Steve-AR @ 31
First of all, I think that Russ has tried to provide leadership, but the rest of the Dems think they know better and they refuse to take his lead. It’s a shame, because he is usually the one that turns out right. OTOH, at the Committee hearings with Petraeus last week, I thought Russ did the heaviest lifting. It was his questioning that left both Petraeus and Crocker blithering, saying humina, humina, humina. It was his questioning that provoked the response that Petraeus could not answer the question; he’d have to ask Fallon. Russ is good at what he does, which is more than I can say about the rest of the Senators with few exceptions.
what has happened to america? once a bastion of freedom now sinking into a shell of democracy and the really sad part? - neither dems nor repugs gives a damn!! amazing to see………
raven @ 88
trump really knows marketing, that’s his stuff and he is certainly strutting it with that quote
right there he is baiting bush and trying to bring him out…I think it will work but trunp will get incredible air time for it if bush bites
and if bush does bite, trump can begin his political career, he could even run as a republican and get some of our swing voters
I think this is one shrewd bussiness move on his part and it is very well done
now to eat some popcorn and watch to see if bush and the wing nuts take trumps bait
Sparkatus @ 39
I love it.
Diane @ 87
Tsk, tsk! Pshaw! Like we’d ever get the courtesy of an answer on that!
What the Senate Dems did with the MoveOn.org ad:
It’s kabuki dressed up as jiu jitsu…
PJ Evans @74:
I think a lot of folks here and elsewhere are feeling a little bit betrayed after working hard last cycle and the one before that…to get what? The Sense of the Democratic Senate that the MoveOn ad went too far?
I just passed one of my 2003 anti-war protesting haunts (where I was repeatedly told by staff that I could not flyer on the sidewalk outside of a major metropolitan museum of art)…and it reminded me of how fragile is the freedom of speech. I felt threatened using mine.
These Senators need to grow a pair (Ladies included), stop feeding the R frames, and launch their own attacks as proud liberals.
They could take a lesson from Jane, Christy,…in that regard.
friends… i know it’s depressing to face that we may only have one true ally in the senate… but it’s better to know what is true than what is comfortable.
and actually, i have more hope now… because when we do our oversight of our senators and representatives, then at the very least, they can’t get away with their kabuki bs. and i think they’ve gotten used to being able to kabuki us. but that’s happening less and less. when they fuck up (think fisa), they’re now getting publically called on it (thank you jane!).
if we do a good job of oversight, it’s possible that at some point they may decide they have to actually do something for us instead of giving us kabuki.
don’t forget nixon gave us the epa - not because he thought it was a good idea, but because he thought he had to… it’s not impossible that we can get our congress to start to shape up. sunlight is a wonderful thing.
oddmommy @ 89
I’m afraid were already there, no matter who is elected in 08 - Dem or Repub. I see very little signs of life from either Party.
Petraeus is a self-confessed presidential aspirant. He is therefore “fair game.”
Petraeus is a sychophant who has been reporting “significant progress” since 2004. He is therefore “fair game.”
Petraeus injected himself into the 2004 election cycls as a Bush partisan. He is therefore “fair game.”
Petraeus has gone participated in diverting resources from the war on terror to the occupation of Iraq against the strategic judgement of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in order to facilitate Bush’s neocon political agenda. Petraeus is therefore “fair game.”
Michael Kinsley in Time had a fun take on the Move-on controversy.
How Dare You
Lots of Pearl Clutching
oddmommy @ 89
Thank you! As futile as it feels sometimes, its the most power I can wield. Move On should be doing one of these ads every week — in the NYT, WaPoo, Trib, Strib, Inky, etc. They also need more company. A lot more company. I give money to groups that support an equal and opposite force to the Right-wing noise machine.
Biodun @ 97
exactly. some of them don’t care what we think and most of the others care enough about what we think to do the kabuki.
but we’re not going to let them get away with it. we’re gonna provide some fucking oversight and call bs every time we see through their kabkuki.
As one of my friends says:
‘Until I can afford to buy my own Congresspeople, voting is the only voice I have. And I’m going to use it.’