This afternoon the Bill Richardson presidential campaign is launching a website and video to send a message to DC and to the other candidates. While the candidates all say they will “end the war,” the frontrunners have ducked the question of residual troops every time they are asked – and they have been asked often by Gov. Richardson in the debates and by several of us privately and in numerous posts.
Last week Matt Stoller and Chris Bowers of OpenLeft and I filmed an ad and interviews for the Richardson campaign video. The campaign will launch the TV ad tomorrow in New Hampshire. While none of us are endorsing a presidential candidate – and Firedoglake has a policy of non-endorsement – Chris, Matt and I all agreed that this question must be answered. We support Bill Richardson’s plan to leave no troops behind – and we support his effort to get the other candidates to step up and answer. You can read Chris’ great post on this effort at OpenLeft.
At the very least, our candidates owe us clear, transparent information on their Iraq plans. As voters and as party activists, we certainly have a right to know if they plan to leave tens of thousands of troops in Iraq.
You can help – at GetOurTroopsOutNow you can post your videos, photos or avatars making it clear that we want the troops out and we want answers.
It’s time for all the campaigns to tell us: How many troops would you leave behind in Iraq?
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Hey Siun!
Yes, an excellent question.
Siun!
BADA BING!
3 zeds in a row today. I say enough. I’m a generous kinda guy…*g*
What defines a “mainstream” Democrat?
ZED?!
..ok, well I was close.
Adie @ 3
dang keyboard….
Adie @ 3
That’s a Chinese woman’s name, as in Xian, but pronounced with an “s.”…*g*
Oklahoma kiddo @ 5
Fingers in ears, saying LALALALALALA?
Will President Hillary Clinton lead us to peace?
Howdy gang – I really hope everyone will jump on this effort – we deserve answers.
Unfortunately, ain’t no way Bill Richardson will get the Dem nomination. Not even a VP nominee. Best he can hope for is a cabinet post if a Dem gets to be prez.
Anybody watching the Columbia speech? The university president just blasted the Iranian president before turning over the podium. Now, the Iranian president begins by noting that in his country, they trust the professors and students enough to discern the truth that they don’t have to vaccinate the student body before they hear the speech.
Biodun @ 13
No, agreed. But hopefully he can prod the rest to answer questions and such.
It’s almost unbelievable. But Bibi is back. What are the chances for peace in the Middle East? You tell me.
OT Columbia Univ. Pres Lee Bollinger gave an incredible speech by way of introducing Ahmadinejad. pulled no punches. wow.
Prez Ahmad.. coming right back with sharp reaction.
continuing…
It’s on C-Span 3.
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs…..p;Code=CS3
Siun:
You mean FDL’s policy is not endorsing a Dem candidate in the primaries. But surely FDL will endorse a Dem nominee, whoever that might be…*g*
Whether Richardson can will the nomination or not is – to me – less important than his willingness to step up and push for answers we all deserve.
It’s time our candidates told us the truth about their Iraq plans.
Then we voters can make our choices on candidates – but how can we choose when they won’t even tell us how many troops get left behind?
NZ Expat, now in KS @ 14
Wow. This guy’s a charmer. Whatever else he is, he’s got a few brain cells. Verrrrrry interesting.
I cannot see valid reasons to leave any troops in Iraq.
I have strong preferences, but would certainly support any of the announced Dem. candidates over any repubba.
On the topic of Bill Richardson, his ties to the Clintons have had me a little concerned about his campaign, but I’m glad to see his stance on the
waroccupation.Coincidentally, my Father-in-law just asked me yesterday about Bill Richardson. I remember hearing some thing early in his campaign that turned me off, but I can’t remember specifically what those thing are, but the result is that I haven’t paid close attention to him.
My Father-in-law heard him interviewed recently, particularly about the war, and said he was very impressed.
I’d be curious what other people’s opinions are here. Maybe someone can remind me what turned me off initially, or maybe straighten me out for forming that opinion in the first place.
I still kind of favor Edwards, but his health plan gives me serious concerns. And his “tough talk” on Iran as well.
Could we start a net-roots surge to give Kucinich some credibility?
peanutbutter @ 20
A charmer giving a very Lysenkoesque view of what science is…Or maybe, a Fristesque view…
peanutbutter @ 20
As was pointed out in a previous post, this guy may be no saint, but that doesn’t mean he can’t hit the nail right on the head.
He makes a very good point. I wish some of Bushie’s Bible Thumpers would remind him of Jesus’ advice of getting the plank out of your own eye before you worry about the speck in your neighbor’s.
D Iranian President Ahmadinijad has talked twice today. He is at Columbia right now.
It was made incredibly obvious what this invite from Columbia was all about. This was the most disgusting display of arrogance I have ever witnessed. Lee Bollinger President of Columbia gave a speech about Iranian President Ahmadinijad. He used a great deal of time repeating A*P*C’s and the rest of the right wing Israeli lobby endlessly has repeated about Iran. Seriously the most disgusting display of arrogance and hitting below the belt before Iranian President Ahmadinejad even gave his speech. The crowd applauded President Bollinger…what a way to greet a speaker. What a fucking set-up. Columbia and President Lee Bollinger should be ashamed of themselves. Really really ashamed.
People should really watch this set up for themselves..when you are not discussing these other issues.
BOLLINGER’S SPEECH PROVES WHAT THIS COLUMBIA EVENT WAS ABOUT. IT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE I-LOBBY TO USE THIS FORUM TO REPEAT THEIR LIES ABOUT IRAN.
What a clear and obnoxious set up!
I want the faceshooter out of office ASAP.
I’m brave enough to admit he terrifies me.
I don’t think he is thinking/acting rationally.
Even some of his closest former colleagues admit he’s not the person he used to be, and i don’t remember him being all that ‘luvable’ before.
Please tune in C-SPAN2 to hear Senator Byrd – he’s started off a speech on Iraq condemning the White House’s propaganda performance.
“Used car salesman” Bush’s “sales job,” etc…. “Past time to lift the hood and kick the tires.”
http://c-span.org/watch/cs_csp…..p;Code=CS2
Truth? From our candidates about Iraq. What a novel idea. I see it from Kucinich and Richardson at the top. And in descending order from the rest of the Democratic voluble and glib spielers, ending with Hillary Clinton. And as to the Republican candidates, these characters don’t even rate a comment.
pow wow @ 28
thanks for the tip
Off- subject—
If you can check out the speech at c-span2 Senate Floor Sen. Robert Byrd regarding Iraq, it’s just beautiful, this man can illuminate very eloquently and amusing too….
(Hi my fine feathered friends at the lake, hope you are having a tolerable Monday….)
Plus: Bill Richardson has been associated with sexual harassment incidents. All anyone has to do is go to Google.
sorry for the early OT, but i’ve got to leave and wanted to make sure you-all saw this – on the kyl/lieberman proposed amendment to the defense authorization bill, S.AMDT.3017. “To express the sense of the Senate regarding Iran.”
from pow wow it looks like this amendment will be debated today and may be voted on as early as tomorrow. (see c-span2 for events on the senate floor)
note – see page S11911 of the congressional record for the text of the proposed s.amdt.3017. here’s a bit:
anne @ 30
Watching right now, again, it is just beautiful…..
i’m watching the iranian president speak… trying to get a feel for what he’s saying – the intro was a stemwinder
ticktock @ 31
Even at Sen. Byrd’s advanced age, he still have 50 times more functioning brain cells than our current President.
Let the Siunshine! Strong direct video.. separates the killers from the peacemakers. I really like where I think this is going.. No more coddling war Dems, no more!
Adie @ 17
I have never witnessed a forum do this. Lee Bollingers hate speech was the most disgusting display of warmongering at a University that I have ever witnessed. Have you ever heard a speaker treated like this? Columbia and Lee Bollinger should be terribly ashamed of themselves for this obnoxious stunt.
I bet Micheal ledeen is in the audience. Hell he probably wrote Lee Bollingers diatribe. Absolutely disgusting.
Columbia’s reputation just took a dive into the darkness today.
SufiLizard @ 25
Columbia should be terribly ashamed…really ashamed..this was a disgusting set up. Columbia’s reputation took a dark dive today.
I think it’s crazy to start laying out complete plans for Iraq now when the situation in a year and half is going to be totally different. The Repugs would jump all over a plan that was devised a year before, then changed to deal with a change in Iraq and say that was wishy-washy, or some such bullshit.
I’m not sure why more of these candidates don’t simply say that it’s too early now to say what they’ll do in 2009. And then add, who knows what new crisis or screw up Bush and his Republican yes men will get us into next year.
Having said that, I would leave some troops to help deter foreign invaders and keep the borders safe and that’s it. I hate when people say it will take a year to get the troops out. That’s such bullshit. It took a week to get them there.
Kathleen 26.
I agree the Bollinger
introductionspeech was stunning. The whole event is being recorded, I’m sure. I’m sure it’d work to continue with our present thread, and deal with the other later, or people could set up split screen for themselves & “multi-task” tw’ Siun and C-Span.Being hyperactive, I’m used to multitasking – can’t operate in any other fashion. But both these subjects are too complicated to go back & forth. I’m gonna silence ole Mahmoud and revisit him later, heh. Whoosh!
Kathleen @ 38
Well, we certainly are acquitting ourselves well today, aren’t we? As I recall, having a guest in your “house” requires you to be the “gracious host” – which means that you don’t invite someone to your “house” to poke them in the eye with a sharp stick before you give them a chance to give their speech. Miss Manners would have something to say about this, I think.
Who is the peace candidate?
its amazing that people who claim to love freedom of speech tried mightily to deny it to others they disagree with..as i said earlier what has happened to america………..
Eureka – exactly. The candidates need to come clean and tell us their plans. Richardson has – but crickets from Clinton, Obama and Edwards.
Back in the early 60s I started my involvement with politics as a kid working for LBJs campaign since he promised to “bring the boys home” and then he didn’t. I won’t stand for that kind of nonsense again.
Byrd referring to the war as that of the president and his men: ‘their mission’, ‘their vision’. Pointing out how Buscho always asking for a little more time, just a little more, when they really have no solution.
bollinger delivered a CYA intro imo
Iranian President Ahmadinejad rips right through Columbia’s Lee Bollingers inappropriate and disgusting diatribe before the Iranian Presidents speech.
Adie @ 41
That’s a good idea. A lot of people are watching C-SPAN 3, because it is cutting in and out like it does when the server there is loaded up. Phil Weiss will probably have a good essay on the speech and Bollinger’s comments later today at mondoweiss.
Siun — I certainly would love to see some more honest discussion about this, among many other issues. The constant sound bite sloganeering this early in the race is grating — and it makes it nearly impossible to discern much difference among any of the candidates when there isn’t a lot of detailed honesty.
BTW, Siun @ 19:
I get your point. You’re right. Richardson’s transparent. But isn’t Kucinich also transparent?
This occupation of Iraq must end!=====
Wow!
Senator Byrd, is a hell of an orator…..
Glad he is on our side…..
“This Senator will support no more, no more, NO MORE BLANK CHECKS for this war.” – Senator Robert Byrd, 9/24/07
I’m gonna puke
After Byrd comes the man who flips his constituants the Bird…Joe Liarman
Lieberman now up on c-span 2. blech. praising Byrd’s ‘passion’ and ‘brainpower’
he’s raising to support an amendment of his and sen. kyl about Iran
Adie @ 41
People have been going OT a great deal on other threads can pull up many examples in the last week.
While I am daily amazed by the work that the FDLers do but I am also amazed that no one at FDL is focused on this today. When we hear that the Palestinian Israeli issue is one of the most critical in the middle east, when the Bush administration is marching towards Iran. Why not some focus on President Ahmadinijads speeches today?
so the war is comming home…it took a little longer then I thought it would but it’s here now, this quote is the lead right now on think progress;
does the president live in wonder land where the war costs nothing more then a promise and our own infrastructure has no meaning to him at all?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
Kucinich. But he ain’t got a chance in hell.
Anyone who uses a Mac & wants to watch C-Span without hiccups should try CocaoJT
ticktock @ 52
I’ve talked to several West Virginians over the years (and if this does not gibe with your feelings, Christy – sorry; I’m just reporting) and they were universally practically worshipping this man – I think they were trying to figure out how to keep him alive forever. When George Bush is a distant footnote, Robert Byrd will probably still be with us. *g*
Now we will be revealed with the line of questioning.
The moderator should ask if the Iranians think that Israel wants to destroy Iran?
pow wow @ 28
Senator Byrd is an absolute gift in these difficult times. Tip of the hat, Sir. Give im heQQ, Sir. Huzzah! ;->
[Ever wonder what Jr. will sound like at 90?
Gonna betcha Bob Dylan sounds crystal clear in contrast.]
Leiberman: Ahmadinejad is a ‘terrorist dictator’ with the ‘blood of americans on his hands’
SeamusD @ 59
I downloaded the software Friday, but haven’t installed it yet. I’m afraid it will open too many opportunities for me to lurk back into European TV archives.
Jim Clausen @ 54
Geesh….
I just muted my teevee….
Can’t handle what Joe is selling….
Does anyone have the link to Cspan3?
Was reading #43 Ed*ard Teller note here…
Is it not worth watching right now?…
Is the link to the comments later at—-
http://www.philipweiss.org/mon…..l#comments
I’d love for the Demo front-runners to come clean on Iraq, Iran and Palestine. Wouldn’t that be nice. Then perhaps we could formulate an informed opinion. And demonstrate to our kids that we practice what we preach. “Always tell the truth”. Of course that’s not going to happen. Is it?
i’m watching the q&a of the irani pres and he’s holding his own in extremely hostile territory…
Ahmadinejad is replying to Bollinger’s opening comments on C-SPAN 3, then he will take questions from students…
juslin @ 47
i kinda wondered about that too.
you think he was outvoted, and actually didn’t want the speech to take place?
or might it be he wanted the guy to come so he could grandstand/verbally punch him in the nose?
Biodun @ 13
The most pressing issue at this time. Iran…the Israeli Palestinian issue and we have President Ahamadinijad. Wonder if any other “progressive” blogs are focused on this issue today?
“The Iranian nation is a victim of terroism”
“We need to target the root causes of terroism”
I hope they ask the Iranian President if he supports middle east ” nuclear free zone”
I don’t care who gets the nomination. As long as I had trust in her or him.
adie@69
imo i think he wanted him to come but was unprepared for the beating he and columbia took… so much for open exchanges of ideas sheesh
Kathleen at 56
Because FDL is neither the daily newspaper nor a comprehensive attempt to be all things to all people. The hosts have repeatedly said FDL will focus on those issues where they have knowledge and experience.
This might not include the topics of greatest interest to you, but you always have the opportunity to write about them yourself on your own blog and invite us over there.
Adie @ 69
It might be something like THIS? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..65638.html
“In an interview with The New York Sun, the speaker of the Assembly, Sheldon Silver, said lawmakers, outraged over Columbia’s insistence on allowing the Iranian president to speak at its World Leaders Forum, would consider reducing capital aid and other financial assistance to the school.”
Sheldon Silver has long felt that he actually runs the New York State Legislature…he’s a big impediment to anything getting done.
Thanks, selise @ 33. And right on schedule, here’s Lieberman on the floor to pimp for more death and destruction…
As noted in selise’s links, Harry Reid and Carl Levin have already half-promised a vote on the specious and aggressively undiplomatic Lieberman/Kyl amendment sometime tomorrow – the order and timing will be formalized in a unanimous consent request at some point soon. Yet ONE SENATOR can still object to prevent that, before the UCRequest hits the floor or when it hits the floor, and thereby keep (at least for the time being) this hateful Sense of the Senate amendment off the floor, in spite of Levin’s and Reid’s apparent desire to bring the amendment up for a vote ASAP (possibly without even requiring a 60-vote margin for passage…).
juslin @ 67
Really holding his own. Columbia should be ashamed of themselves for that arrogant and disgusting display by Bollinger was outrageous and inappropriate. At Ohio University it is an absolute no no to boo a speaker, I guess they have higher standards at Columbia.
Lets see. Who do I trust more? The Israeli government, the U.S. government, the Iraqi government or the Iranian government. Gawd. What a choice.
Ed*ard Teller @ 64
There are a lot of European channels; Cocoa works so much better than Real Player or Quick Time, no frozen video especially, but also a slightly smoother and larger picture. It works for me.
ticktock @ 65 – Here’s a link to get to C-SPAN3:
http://c-span.org/watch/cs_csp…..p;Code=CS3
QuakerGirl @ 70
Oops! Hit the wrong key. Forgive me!
Comment: If the nomination and nation wide vote goes to Hillary, the most Richardson can hope for in a post is something benign and off the scene.
I’ll keep going through the motions and not let my hard working Nevada Democrats down, but in my heart of hearts I know the fix is in just as it was with Kerry. He was not beloved either but got the nomination. Liberman had more to do with Gore losing than any other single factor. That time the fix was in for the VP and Gore, by default. Had Gore not been VP, he would never have come on the radar political screen. Does this make me cynical? I think it makes me a realist.
pow wow @ 81
Thanks—Mucho gracias—Merci—-arigato—
egregious @ 75
give me a break! this is not just important to me. And you folks write about all sorts of things that some of you don’t know much about (but do the research).
You folks know this is one of the most critical issues facing our nation and the middle east.
IMO:
We should not be telling FDL proprietors what they should be writing about. As Christy once said: “This is Jane’s living room.” I agree. We’re all guests/visitors. I for one am grateful to be let in as one of the family.
Telling blog proprietors what they should focus on and/or write about reminds me of the movie The Man Who Came to Dinner.
The American Prez says we’re not going to war with Iran. The Iranian Prez says there will be no war with the U.S. I feel so much better.
Biodun @ 85
I love that film. What aspect of this reminds you of MWCTD?
Ahmadinijad: homosexuals? we don’t have homosexuals like in the US
*audience laughs*
If you can get C-SPAN3 it is good. Mahmoud just announced they don’t have homosexuals in Iran. The audience hooted and booed.
My understanding is that Sen. Byrd knows the rules of the Senate like the back of his hand. Is it possible that he could tie things up via the rules to actually force an end to the madness of Iraq?
Biodun @ 85
This is not Jane or Christy’s living room. They have created a forum for public discourse about critical issues. The issue of Iran is a critical issue.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 73
Interesting. We could elect the absolute *dream* candidate for prez tomorrow and I still would not trust him or her.
See, that’s *my* function. Watch…and vote…and never trust, or else I start thinking that things like term limits and other snooze alarms can take the place of my function…
Biodun @ 85
And I love her living room! What a wonderful place to visit!
Richardson is a fair second-string governor. He was a LOUSY DOE Secretary, helping along in the sliming not just of Wen Ho Lee, but of many programs, most notably diversion of remediation funds at toxic places like the Hanford works to questionable bonuses to giants like Westinghouse and Halliburton. The publicized examples of sexual harassment may be only the tip of the iceberg.
Kathleen, I live on a lillypad at FDL because of the great work of Siun and many, many others above and below. One day last week I counted over 64 comments by you in one day. Over 90 percent were off topic and rude injections of your topic du jour. As I have said I agree with most of your passionate concerns but you, imo, do more damage to those positions by the hammer-style you use to bring them forward here. Get your own blog, Kathleen. You have so much to say, you need to do it.
Siun @ 19
Siun. I agree, but surely the candidates are as concerned as we are, don’t you think?, over simply wondering what on earth will be left over and thrown at the next president. This is a fluid situation, if ever the was one. It could develop in any number of ways. No one has a crystal ball giving them the ability to make firm guaranteed correct choices. There are NO good options. And still Jr & shooter could easily make things even worse.
I honestly think jr. doesn’t care. He just wants out. By all descriptions, shooter is aggressively slicing and dicing the Constitution behind the scenes, and may not even be rational any more.
What a rotten situation on which to base predictions. We may find ourselves having to judge character, strength, stability, and basic values, past record, etc. without being privy to iron-clad plans for our future. That wouldn’t please me, but it might be more honest than how jr. got into office.
QuakerGirl @ 89
Better get an exact quote on that.
‘like’ in the US.
Maybe he means most of them are still closeted unlike the ‘coming out’ trend we’ve seen here in the US.
Given the choice between triangulation and not. I’ll take ‘not’. But I love trigonometry. Which remind me, I’ve got a trig class in 5 minutes.
Kathleen – please. As you know, I agree with you on many things and write about them but the constant repetition, etc does not help to open minds but to close them.
It looks like lots of folks are watching the speech, others are following the Senate play HoJoe’s game and some are discussing the post. That’s great … so let’s stop badgering people.
The issue of Iran is too important to turn people off with the manner of discussion.
Kathleen @ 91
This most certainly is their living room and invited guests should not put their feet on the furniture.
Don’t forget: “No Troops” means no mercenaries, either.
Kathleen @ 91
No, Kathleen, I believe you are mistaken. If this were truly a “public forum” then we would have to put up with all of the spam, and right wing trolls and trash that shows up on public forums. Jane, Christy, the other front pagers, and the mods go to a lot of effort to see that we DON’T have to put up with a lot of cr*pol* so I think they are allowed to set a few unofficial rules for how things operate.
kdh22 @ 97
Very true. Good point. Or, he may have said yet something else. How elusive is reality!
Eureka Springs @ 95
Then I would suggest Eureka Spring you do the same for some other blogs, I have seen people go off topic all of the time and dominate with topics that have nothing to do with the topic. so please if you would like me to I will look for many many examples of this.
This is not the issue, although I will certainly go back and do exactly what you have done and know I will find many examples of many people going off topic and staying oT
back to my point. Iran
Siun @ 99
Agreed
Kathleen @ 91
This place is effectively their living room (or their vine-decked terrace).
Would you allow your guests to tell you what you should talk about in your home? as opposed to asking if a topic could be discussed?
Adie – we don’t know what the situation will be in Iraq in ‘09 but we do know that US troops are not the answer.
And the candidate’s plans – other than Richardson – all include leaving tens of thousands of troops in Iraq to do the same things Bush claims they are doing now. At the same time, the Iraqi people want them to leave.
What we’re asking is that the candidates come clean on their plans – they have them, they just don’t seem to want to talk about them because they find it more convenient to simply say “we all want to end the war.”
Toby Wollin @ 87
From the plot summary:
Ahmadinejad’s translator is great. She knows how to make his points. You can hear in her voice that she agrees with his views, IMO
Phoenix Woman @ 101
Ding!
OT again, with apologies…
Oh thank heaven.
Ahmadinejad just announced there are no homose*uals in Iran. Zero. None.
giggles & guffaws from his audience.
so, he repeats the claim.
more guffaws.
oh well….
and, further, Iranian women are highly respected, more than the men even…
[presumably as long as they remain covered up head to toe, and don’t budge from their pedestals and don’t touch the food reserved for the men?]
he has chutzpah, as it were. [apologies if that’s blasphemous]
in a morbidcuriosity sorta way, it really would be
funinteresting to cage him & jr together, with translators at safe distance, and let ‘em speak openly to eachother…my god can beat up your god!
nuh uh!
your god has cooties!
waaaahhhhhhhhmommmmeeeee!?! eeewww
dakine01 @ 102
And I have thanked them endlessly and sent hundreds of people to this site, and have gone on public radio and sing their praises.
That was not my point. dropping this.
Hi Siun.
Do you think it’s important to differentiate, wrt Iraq, between strategy, i.e., what steps take us where we wish to go, and tactics, what actions comprise those steps? It seems to me that the strategic discussion of goals with a Presidential candidate is fair game, as it contains the candidate’s vision; but tactically, it seems to me that an honest candidate can’t say what he or she will do, since they don’t know what the situation will be when they take office.
Siun @ 99
Exactly.
If one wants to, in this post, discuss Iran in the context of Iraq, that’s fine. (In fact, one could point out that if Bush attacked Shiite-majority Iran, their fellow Shiites next door in Iraq — who up to now have not been attacking US troops in anywhere near the frequency the Iraqi Sunnis have — are quite likely to rise up en masse and do to US troops and mercenaries what was done to General Gordon at Khartoum.)
Think of it this way: How would you like it if somebody threadjacked a discussion you were holding on Iran to talk about, say, biofuels?
we can concentrate on more than 1 thing at a time…why we can even talk and chew gum at the same time also… this visit by the irani pres fits in imo b/c there’s a drumbeat to extend the war in iraq into iran….
I was watching Iranian President Ahmadinijad answer questions just now. While I think he’s eveil, he’s definately intelligent. I cannot imagine Preznit Bush skillfully answering questions in a similiar forum. I miss having an intelligent President of the US.
Siun @ 45
Siun – Our political history must start about the same time. When I discovered my government was lying to me my life changed dramatically. No more giving anyone that much power. As a child I remember the fifties and being called a communist because of the kind of questions I asked. I was very young and it shut me up. I went silent. I didn’t understand what was a communist question and what was not. But it stayed with me and formed the person I am today.
All in all I would say that Columbia University did an excellent job despite the heat of inviting Ahmadinejad to speak…
I believe the art of diplomacy is pointless if the scope of dialogue is limited only to people or countries we get along with…
as to being off-topic when i read posts it seems folks go off-topic on a regular basis – what only certain people can do so?
If you missed the intro by the President of Columbia Bollinger, worth going back to watch at some other time.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 86
Oh OKK. You have that midas touch. *reaches thru toobz to shake hands, lil’ chuckle breaking thru wimpyface*
Jane, your drapes are really ugly. What were you thinking when you chose them?
Please change them so that I like being in your living room.
Usually in a thread, there are several mini-debates going on alongside, or related to, the main topic. That’s fine. Some clever FDLers try to manipulate the mini-debate discursively along the lines of their interests. Sometimes they succeed. Sometimes not. But trying to force those interests on the whole thread simply by repetitive badgering: Not cool.
siun – once you get the candidates position on iraq nailed down, could you also get their position on iran? thanks.
just joking!
… anyway, thanks for continuing to follow up on this. i don’t think they can ignore you forever. would it help your efforts for us to start calling the campaigns?
Badwater @ 116
evil? based on…? I haven’t seen Iran attack anyone on his watch…and what he’s accused of, (running a covert war in Iraq), the US is guilty of many times over.
On shrub and Iran-shrub: if two liars lie about each other, does that negate the lie?
Meanwhile, Trump has fired shrub:
“I think President Bush has to go into a corner and hide… We’ve gone from this tremendous power that was respected all over the world to somewhat of a laughing stock.”
“And, all of the sudden, people are talking about China and India and other places…. Even from an economic standpoint, America’s come down a long way,” he added. “It’s very, very sad.”
Heh, heh, heh.
QuakerGirl – ah, a generational comrade! The disillusionment over LBJ is a lesson I have never forgotten – and it makes me read the fine print. That’s why I was happy to be involved with this video and ad.
I was lucky on the communist issue since my dad was a labor union socialist … smiling. I even got to go to a camp where we learned Russian … that was *real* popular in our working class neighborhood, as I’m sure you can imagine. (oh, it was an academic camp where we also learned algebra and biology and did musical comedy … a rather wonderful experience)
juslin @ 119
You’re a good person and I like what you have to say….
All I can say in my defense if I personally blow it and go off topic is that people will forgive my transgressions….
Truth be told, I don’t mind if somebody goes off-topic as long as they got something to say that either illuminating or amusing….
I like all you people, it doesn’t matter to me…
So…
Got to go now, got too much crap to deal with right now…
Hope all of you have fun here at the lake…flying off now….
juslin @ 119
I think the problem was more the tone of kathleen at 56 which was not an OT post — she’d already done a number up there — but a slam on the chosen topics at FDL for the day.
I found that post rude and obnoxious and the living room metaphor comes into play there.
Of course just OT stuff for the most part isn’t a problem. These issues are wide ranging and have many tangents. Just talking about one’s impressions of the speech (esp. since iraq and iran are linked in terms of our warmongering admin) wasn’t an issue up to #56, if you go back and review.
Blub @ 126
Cheney allegedly declared that “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter”. Looks like Reagan didn’t prove that after all.
Criticism of Richardson’s tenure at DOE is highly visible on the web, but many scientists’ negative evaluation of the man remain beyond the web. Here’s one op-ed from last summer that remarks about some of the worst managerial aspects of his legacy there:
Richardson’s two years as energy secretary created: a disastrous legacy of security breeches that continued throughout his terms, a baseless indictment of Wen Ho Lee for which a federal judge issued an unprecedented apology, widespread implementation of polygraph interrogations of employees at the national laboratories against the recommendations of the National Academy of Sciences that created a culture of fear and the resignations of hundreds of top-notch scientists, and a botched alternative energy program.
He capped it off with a hat-in-hand trip to Saudi Arabia in February 2000 begging for more oil as per-capita gasoline consumption and gas prices hit a 30-year high. Richardson called his final official foray “productive.” Can executive leadership get any worse?
Ed*ard Teller @ 132
Hm, all very interesting stuff. I do remember his connection with Lee, now that you remind me.
Sounds like he’s best useful where he is: as a gadfly to help prod some more discourse among the other candidates.
Wait, did I already say that? :-)
Selise!
Calling the campaigns would be awesome – just asking them to answer the question is what is needed.
And asking the networks before each debate to ask the question and actually followup until they answer!
I also really like the map the Richardson folks put together … the DC folks are in this bubble where they can make what Atrios has rightly called Pony plans … so showing them that all of us outside that bubble actually want something done is a really good idea.
Siun @ 128
Suin – What a beautiful history you have. It must be our parents’ sense of fairness and compassion for the laborer and underdog.
Adie @ 111
Actually, they’re not quite as restrictive as some of their neighbors. My understanding is it’s usually headscarves and long sleeves in clothes – the boutiques are popular. Remember, Iran isn’t an Arab country, and it’s been civilized for a long, long time. (They’ve been the dominant country in the region for a lot of that time, too. Long enough to spread their food and literature across parts of three continents.)
The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, March/April 1999, pp. 12-14.
In an unprecedented decision, Energy Secretary Bill Richardson has designated three Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) commercial nuclear reactors — Watts Bar Unit 1 and Sequoyah Units 1 and 2 — as the “preferred” facilities to produce tritium for U.S. nuclear weapons.
The decision, announced December 22, breaks the longstanding practice of not producing bomb material in civlian reactors. Nonetheless, Richardson said, the “TVA is well suited for this work because meeting national security needs is part of its statuatory charter, and its reactors are government facilities.”
Backing his judgment was an extensive 1998 interagency review, which found that “any nonproliferation issues are manageable and should not preclude selection of commercial reactors.”
selise @ 124
I bet the folks in Iran whose lives may be lost (2 million projection by the military if Israel or the US pre-emptively strike Iran) do not think it is a joke about where the candidates here in the US stand on Iran.
Not joking
Biodun @ 123
DING DING DING! We have a winner.
Would it be enough of an answer to the Iran question to simply say,” As President, I will not attack any nation that has not attcked the US”?
Even then we don’t always respond, re: USS Liberty.
kinda hostile on the lake today…
ET … I think the important thing right now is to get all the candidates to tell us their plans. And the video does a good job of pointing to and comparing the plans. That matters to me a lot …
Biodun @ 123
Biodun please you know as well as I do that Iran, (millions of Iranian lives depend on whether we talk about this issue and get in the fucking way of the killing train that is headed towards Iran). Please Please do not think that I focus on these issues for fun or because you think they are “my”issues. This is utter horseshit.
My intention MY ONLY INTENTION is to witness lives saved and to witness peace in the middle east.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming, which is indeed important
I have just given my math students a blank copy of the unit circle to fill in. I told them it was a surprise test. They don’t know yet that I’m not going to grade it. The next one will be graded. That they can count on. I love my job. Heck. It’s not even a job. But I get paid for it. Amazing. Last Friday I spent 1/2 this class discussing Iraq and Iran. I’m still waiting on the inevitable call from the principal. I love this guy.
I DO hope Richardson can get some traction out of this video, which is now being featured at the masthead of other antiwar and progressive blogs, but I don’t trust him any more than I do Clinton, Obama or Biden. In the very remote event that he is the Dem nominee, I’ll fight to get him elected. He’d be an awful president, but better than ANY GOP possibility.
It is a sad measure of what has become normal that supposedly sane people will casually talk about using nuclear weapons on Iran, not as a response to an attack, but simply because they reject OUR AUTHORI-TY.
I know, if I were the President of Iran, I would be trying to build myself a nuke as fast as humanly possible.
on residual troops (which I think is the topic of this thread), I don’t quite know what to make of this line of criticism. Logistically speaking, a withdrawal of approximately 350,000 military and civilian assets under combat conditions will take time, which means some troops will be more residual than others. Reasonably, this process could take 6-9 months at an absolute minimum and more likely a couple of years.. and even then, somebody has to be there to close the door and turn off the lights.. whether you call these people trainers or commandos or whatever. Logisically speaking, anything different from this has a military term too.. “a rout”…
As I understand it, what we are asking for is simply that a serious withdrawal commence immediately and that this process should result in the removal of all combat units by date certain. That’s very diferent than saying that there can or can’t be some type of presence of “residual” after those combat units are gone.
RonD @ 139
Or to ask the Iranian President “would you stop enriching uranium to the level agreed upon in the Non-proliferation treaty for your nuclear program, so that Israel can relax, if the US and Israel sign agreements that they will not pre-emptively attack your nation”?
Siun, Help me out a little please with a succinct question for campaigns and I will send it out today.
How is this?
Will you state your position on full removal of all troops from Iraq?
Will you state your position on the full removal of mercenaries?
Phoenix Woman @ 139:
Thanks. I fancy myself some kinda wannabe ethnographer/anthropologist. So I try to study the behavior of FDLers as a group, and the FDL ecology. I lurked for a while to do this research and study before I started posting comments.
Siun @ 142
In addition, I really want to know who their advisers are. I know I harp on this but the foreign policy board is made up of some serious war hawks. They were placed there by the President. What think tanks, advisers and “experts” will he/she use? This is why I find Hillary scary. To whom does she listen?
New Thread upstairs.
Siun, always happy to find something new from you. You bring an intelligence, vision, and committment to everything I’ve ever seen you write, and make IMO an invaluable contribution to the knowledge of the reality of the event, no matter what it is.
{{{Siun}}}
Kathleen @ 148
Nothing like a little coercion to spice up an international agreement.
I am sorry if folks feel (I don’t agree) like I was out of line pushing for more focus on the Iranian issue today. I just sincerely do not want to witness my government kill any more people who have never threatened us, and sincerely want to witness the I/P issue come to a resolution that all can live with.
The Iran train is travelling fast these days and experts have all sorts of opinions about whether the Bush administration will or will not invade. Iranian lives are on that train track.
I am sincerely sorry to those who felt like I was out of line
Eureka – that looks precisely right.
And maybe say combat and support troops – the trick that the campaigns are playing is to say they will remove combat troops but somehow plan to leave the support troops behind – a crazy idea on so many levels. As the Gov. says in the video we’re talking forces to protect forces … it doesn’t make sense – and it doesn’t end the war.
Blub @ 147
What would be the mission of the residual force? How would it be protected? Could any mission it was given be better or more safely accomplished from outside the country?
Kathleen @ 155
I don’t think you were out of line. IRAN IS A VERY SERIOUS TOPIC THAT SHOULD BE FRONT AND CENTER. Too many Presidential candidates are following the administration line and demonizing a nation that is only trying to survive.
Blub @ 147
Well, we’d still need the Marine guards for however much embassy is let, so they could do the light-turning-out for the rest of the stuff we leave behind. Then we can maybe get an embassy of a more
sanereasonable size and give the monstrosity to Iraq for a luxury hotel or something.But other than the embassy guards, I wouldn’t think we’d need any troops to stay there. When Shrub speechifies on this, he’s usually said we’re only supposed to be there until the Iraqis take over again (never mind that he broke it to begin with
, but he’s nuts).Siun @ 156
Just the help I needed. Thanks and I’ll let you know what replies I get, if any.
Hugh @ 157
It would be impossible to keep American troops in Iraq without combat troops. It is a ludicrous proposition, makes no sense whatever.
Eureka – that would be great. I’ll be continuing my Residual Troops Watch every Sunday night …
let’s hope we get some answers!
Siun @ 107
Thanks Siun. I want the troops out, ALL of them, NOW! And I want Blackwater & its ilk NOT to be the US face to the world. That should stop, NOW!
In my perfect world, that would happen, NOW, with no repercussions. But it’s not going to happen. Is it? No matter WHO takes over.
Bush/CheneyCo. has seen to that. And last time I looked, they’re not out of office yet, not finished making dreadful, hurtful, fatal, idiotic decision – hand over fist, which they will continue to do until physically removed from office.
Even though this is a horribly depressing time in our history, we cannot, we MUST not give up trying to make things better.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I do not usually pick which candidates to favor, by speeches alone, nor even election-eve “policy” announcements.
If a candidate is marvelously articulate, that’s a definite plus. If a candidate states a policy position I agree with, that’s another. But frankly, I look much more closely at track-record of actual influence of a candidate’s policy feelings on his/her actions in the past. Does the person exhibit a true commitment to serving the public good? That’s a biggie, and doesn’t rest only on pretty words.
Voting record. Effort and commitment to digging deep and working hard for causes that I think are important for the future of our nation, ALL our people, and the rest of the world. Sometimes such details are lost in the shuffle during campaigns. I think that is especially true, ever since roverian smear-campaigns, swift-boating, etc. became the norm in this country.
So, no, I neither jump to attention instantaneously, nor run away from a candidate, based on a few words. The skittishness of all candidates, ever since the roverian earthquake, makes them all less apt to be candid and consistent in public than they might have in years past.
I am very thankful for the overall level of quality exhibited by the Democratic candidates.
Sadly, I feel Bush/CheneyCo. have mired the whole world in such a horrible situation, because of their unfettered greed, mis- and malfeasance in Iraq and so many other venues, I do not see any clear way out. I don’t think there IS one. I think they have BROKEN the toys irretrievably.
The thought that jr. will be there snickering at the next President for not smoothing things over, quickly and neatly, grinds away at my soul 24/7. The ruined lives. The loss of life. The squandered resources that COULD have gone toward good causes. The trashing of our environment, the neglect of the children and the elderly, not to mention the young people we expect to carry on in the future.
I want people to be able to breathe the air, and drink clean water. I want decent health care for all. I want the wanton destruction of our treasured wild places to cease. I want affordable, decent education for all. I want our Constitution restored and honored….
My GOD what an unholy mess this administration has made! I care what the candidates say about this awful military action. Of course I do.
It’s the spawn of monsters. We MUST STOP it!
If that’s the only thing on a candidate’s mind, it’s not good enough for me. o.k.?
Right now, Dodd interests me, but I haven’t educated myself enough about him. I’d prefer voting for Gore. Call me old fashioned.
I must sign off for a bit, because my honey needs me to help hold his renovation project elsewhere in the house. I will be back, soon, I hope. I’m not running out on you.
Thank you, Siun for all you do.
A great effort to make them wiggle and evade giving an awkward answer, but, to bang on my same trash-can-lid from downstairs, it all is meaningless if a DLC, neo-con, corporatist candidate can count on the principled, politically aware, engaged, activist communnity to fall for the fallacy of the least-worst, over and over and over again, amen.
all the rending of garments and gnashing of teeth is meaningless to them … they are as isolated from our values as the quislings in the Green Zone are from the terrible realities of Iraq.
see for example
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html
SeamusD @ 158
It is terrifying to think about how many lives are hanging by threads in Iran because of what our government or Israel may do any time now. I know these other issues are important but not as important as getting in front of that “cakewalk in Iraq” now on its way to Iran train.
Enough Enough Enough of these criminal and immoral invasions and killing.
P J Evans @ 136
I’m glad to hear that; thank you. I’m pretty ignorant about that part of the world.
I’m so slow, I’m still seething over our forces trashing/allowing to be trashed, the national libraries in Afghanastan (and Iraq?) early on in the present endless military action.
Destroy all that priceless historical record, trash their countries, and then turn around and wonder why they don’t simper and curtsy when we give them a piece of candy?
It is/was clear and I need to accept that the majority of FDL folks felt that focusing on the Presidential debates and race that have been going on for months now and will continue to go on for months are more important than speeches by the President of Iran that will only happen this week.
I am sorry for pushing this issue.
Adie @ 163
Wow! Wish I could have written that, Adie. I most certainly agree with you. That is the best statement about my world-view I have ever seen. You been reading my mail? *g*
Back to the move on ad
I must go now. Will be back to read the comments again.
Apologies Kathleen. You are right.
AND so is Siun. FDL is the best blog I know, by far. But then I’m biased.
If you’re looking for one that is perfect, can’t be done. Kinda like people… ;->
It’s really hard to cope when everything’s crashing down around us all at once.
Let’s all just keep talking to eachother. Deal?
SeamusD 168
You sweet thing. OMG, maybe I should never proofread. I have no idea what I said (felt like babble to me *sniffle*), so I’ll have to re-read that in a bit to see if I agree with myself(!)
Bye guys, and thanks for patience.
QuakerGirl @ 151
Haim Saban seems to be her biggest financial backer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haim_Saban
Also, per Glenn Greenwald: http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html
Phoenix Woman @ 101
Right! I asked a Richardson campaign staffer a few months ago whether the Governor included mercenaries in his all-U.S.-troops-out-of-Iraq position. The staffer seemed a little surprised. He indicated that he’d taken it for granted that ‘troops’ includes ‘mercenaries.’ As we all learned this week if we didn’t know before, it does not.
I propose a sauce-for-the-gander test for candidates: Would you want a foreign country to leave its troops (or mercenaries) in the U.S.? If not, why would you want the U.S. to do it to Iraq?
Kathleen.
We do get it. Honest.
This blog is not a 24/7 news outlet, and can’t afford to be with small staff and limited resources. AND, it needn’t try to be.
Yet, with OT asides intruding occasionally into unrelated discussions, FDL is viewed by many as one of the fastest on the block, as far as catching important stories and lobbing them on to bigger media outlets, then fact-checking to make sure they are handled thoroughly with truth and candor.
I will bet you (sorry, just a penny – that’s my standard limit) that FDL will have multiple major posts on Iran, the future of that whole area of the world, and related U.S. policy.
You might try Control F & searching for your own name throughout the length of this thread. I did, just out of curiosity. Look not just at the number of comments, but what was said.
Siun has a point, hon.
That said, please don’t leave this blog. We need your input just as much as anyone else’s.
These are terribly distressing times for most of us. We all need to talk, lots. I meant it above when I said I don’t think there ARE clear answers to a lot of the big questions the Bush/Cheney debacle has posed.
I lay the major portion of blame for our current predicamentS squarely on the Bush administration, their greed, careless bungling, and callous regard for anything beyond their own self gratification.
But Bush is right about one thing. If he insists on sitting idle on his dunce stool for the rest of his term, others need to pitch in and start cleaning up HIS mess. Aggravated? Try LIVID!?!
We already raised OUR kids.
WHY should WE have to pick up after Bar&GHW’s kid, who has the unmitigated gall to act like a spoiled brat at age 50-something?!
Of course, we must worry also because he has a special secretive
friend/accomplice in the bunker.We feel the obligation to try to help, because something major must be done by a whole lot of folks, if there is to be any hope for the future of the world. We’re willing to try to do our part, as we see it.
FDL helps. A lot. It’s not perfect but, for a huge unwieldy conglomeration of upset, strong-minded, activist people, it does pretty darned well.
(((Peace)))
SufiLizard @ 23
To me, Richardson seems very impulsive. He has made several statements during the campaign that he has either had to correct or retract. I think we need someone more thorough in his thoughts and analysis before he speaks. I like him, but I don’t think he is Presidential material. He is too likely to make a big diplomatic error if he not supervised.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 66
I think Hillary made her position pretty clear this weekend. Saying she won’t vote for funding, but then saying that there will most likely still be a stubstantial troop presence at the end of her first term, if elected, convinces me that she is all for prolonging the War and occupying this country regardless of anything she says to the contrary. The woman is a weasel and a hawk. It’s time for someone that believes in diplomacy. That is the only way to end the War and restore our reputation around the globe.
Just in case it is not mentioned anywhere above, at 2:01 the text says 20,0000, meaning 20 thousand, but there is an extra zero on there.
Adie @ 174
Adie
Siun does have a point but so do I. FDL has a fair amount of power, but let’s be honest the Iranian issue is huge! The Bush administration is talking about bombing the fucking living day lights out of them. When President Ahmadinejad is speaking in two different forums in one day and in one of them more is said about the Palestinian issue than anywhere in the MSM or the so called “progressive” blogosphere. When he is only going to speak in the U.S. three times in one week on some of the most critical issues that are taking place at this time (millions of peoples lives are on the line here, millions). Forgive me I find that far more important than the move on add, Giulianni, Feingold etc etc. going on right now. And quite honestly if the FDL bloggers do not find encouraging Americans and FDLers to listen to the Iranian President live and using their power in that way then I realize I am clearly barking up the wrong tree. Becauce it was quite obvious today that they do not. (again millions of people lives are on the line on this critical issue)
Oh yeah they can come out tomorrow and do an article (after the fact) about Iran as they did after I yammered for a couple of post how not one of the bloggers had written anything on the Jena 6.
But that is not as powerful or as effective as encouraging the FDL folk to focus even if it is just for one post to listen to the Iranian president together. Especially the Columbia address where we witnessed first hand Columbia fold under pressure from the Israeli lobby and hammer a speaker the way Columbia’s President Bollinger before the Iranian President even had anything to say. (I have never witnessed anything like this in 35 years of being around university settings) I get it, I am barking up the wrong tree and I think it’s pitiful.
And on the comments. I can go to other FDL blogs and find others who go on and on and on about issues that no one seems to mention that they are OT. (or add up the amount of words on one post) But we all know when the I/P issue comes up there are some people who do everything in their power to try to stop it. While I know I went on a rant but WTF the Bush administration is talking about bombing the shit out of that country and killing innocent people and obviously(I have to accept this) FDL did not find it important enough to encourage their commenters to watch it and lead them there.
O.K., I accept it, I get it, the Move on add is more important to “most” people here
But please Adie while I agree Siun has a point and so do you, I think my point is very clear. Iran was clearly more important today whether you want to admit it or not.
QuakerGirl @ 70
I keep hearing this, but I think if Richardson had the VP slot behind this would give Clinton or Obama, the likely Pres. candidates more wiggle room to change his or her position to total withdrawal, which they will have to do in order to win the election, or to survive in office. He or she can announce that VP Richardson has helped negotiate an accord with Saudi Arabia and Iran, and with the UN’s blessing for cover we can skedaddle. Richardson’s got a history? Where are my salts and my couch?
And as far as the ‘no way’ attitude, this man can draw some votes. Does anyone think Obama would bring votes to a Clinton ticket, or Clinton to an Obama ticket? Lot of diversity here, but not on policy, as far as I can see.
peanutbutter @ 133
This makes interesting reading. I was very disturbed years ago, also, by one account of Richardson’s role in the Cuban “Brothers to the Rescue” or whatever that aviation stunt over Cuban waters was called. By that account, he screwed up there leading to some deaths. And the point would be? The point is the leading Democratic candidate voted for the AUMF and now is as stuck in Iraq as GWB. What the hell difference would she make as President? Couldn’t she as Senator, at least insisted that General Petraeus testify under oath.
I’ve said it before: my Representative has said that Congresmembers were ALL aware that the AUMF was based on bogus representations. Why then did anyone, D or R, vote for the AUMF? Because they WANTED the war. Bloodcurdling.
Adie Yes Siun had a point, you have a point, but I have a point. My point being that I found it shocking that FDL did not focus on this issue for a chunck of the day. That they did not find one of the most critical issues facing our nation, Iran. That hearing directly from Iran’s President was not as important as Giulianni, Feingold and the Move on Add.
The war train is racing towards Iran and millions of peoples lives are on the line and it was more important on the only day that President Ahmadinejad will speak in two places about the situation in Iran and the I/P issue for FDL to focus on these other issues that will still be here tomorrow.
Folks would have witnessed first hand (and they will more than likely never watch that speech) Columbia University’s
President Bollinger bend to the I-Lobby’s will in the most disgusing way before the President of Irans speech
“Before Ahmadinejad’s address to students Monday, Columbia University president Lee Bollinger gave an introduction, which is likely to go down in history as one of the most bold and critical set-ups in modern memory. Point-blank, he asked the Iranian president how he could deny the Holocaust, why his country silences and arrests political critics, how he could excuse Iran’s proxy war in Iraq against U.S. soldiers, how Iran can excuse funding terrorism and its support for wiping Israel “off the map.” It went on and on.
At the end of his list of fact-filled questions, Bollinger said this: “Frankly, and in all candor, Mr. President, I doubt that you will have the intellectual courage to answer these questions. But your avoiding them will in itself be meaningful to us. I do expect you to exhibit the fanatical mind-set that characterizes so much of what you say and do … I am only a professor, who is also a university president, and today I feel all the weight of the modern civilized world yearning to express the revulsion at what you stand for. I only wish I could do better.”
I have never witnessed anything like this happen on any University campus in 35 years.
FDL may come out tomorrow with a piece but that is not the same as encouraging people to watch those speeches as they took place.
I accept this but find it telling.
Sorry to repeat I thought the other one did not go through.
this article by Glenn Greenwald makes it perfectly clear why President Bollinger bent over for the I-lobby today. Doing what I have never witnessed before in my life, hammering, slandering a speaker before they have ever spoken a word.
Columbia dove deep into the darkness today. One can clearly see how journalist in this country and being trained not to ask any hard questions about the I/P issue. It was crystal clear today, that one should not go to Columbia’s journalism school if you want to learn about fair and balanced reporting .
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..source=rss
Columbia bend over or we will cut funds
Silver — who, among other things, has long been a leader in efforts to free convicted Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard from prison — did not even bother to disguise the threats he was making:
As the president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, prepares to address Columbia University today amid a storm of student protest, state and city lawmakers say they are considering withholding public funds from the school to protest its decision to invite the leader to campus.
In an interview with The New York Sun, the speaker of the Assembly, Sheldon Silver, said lawmakers, outraged over Columbia’s insistence on allowing the Iranian president to speak at its World Leaders Forum, would consider reducing capital aid and other financial assistance to the school.
Lawmakers warned about other consequences for Columbia and its president, Lee Bollinger, who has resisted campus and public pressure to cancel Mr. Ahmadinejad’s appearance today, arguing that Columbia’s commitment to scholarship requires the school to directly confront offensive ideas.
“There are issues that Columbia may have before us that obviously this cavalier attitude would be something that people would recall,” Mr. Silver said. “Obviously, there’s some degree of capital support that has been provided to Columbia in the past. These are things people might take a different view of . . . knowing that this is that kind of an institution” . . .
“It’s not going to go away just because this episode ends. Columbia University has to know . . . that they will be penalized,” an assemblyman of Brooklyn, Dov Hikind, who also attended the rally, said. The lawmaker said Mr. Ahmadinejad should be arrested when he sets foot on campus.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..source=rss
Kathleen 178
I know the Iran situation is on the minds of everyone here. If you plug it into the search function at FDL, you will find numerous posts that deal with various aspects and implications of the dangerous game the administration seems to be playing in the area.
You will have to ask those more knowledgeable than I to get specific answers. I have plenty education, but not much in world history or political conflict in that area of the world.
I have read enough to know it’s been hair-raising for centuries, longer than European interlopers such as my own ancestors have been spawning in the Americas.
YES the problems today are HUGE!
Yes, they need to be addressed. Fine minds are wrestling with them here, and they will be in the future.
NO I honestly do not believe FDL would be even half as effective a vehicle for quality dialogue and positive change, if they always interrupted whatever they are doing to follow every terrier down the nearest rabbithole.
Constant interruptions, after all, are one of the things damaging the effectiveness the MSM in its former role as a trusted source of news.
FDL makes its biggest impact through careful analyses backed up by precise documentation, accompanied by in-depth discussions which serve as a fertile ground for developing new ideas and approaches to solving difficult problems. Given the broad-based nature of the community, threads are indeed interrupted frequently with asides and quips and notations of important new developments, but nevertheless the basic discussion continues on. Without some sort of control, how would YOU propose filing the valuable information formulated and revealed here, so that it could be retrieved and used to accomplish something positive and lasting?
In my experience lurking and commenting here, the discussion of a particular topic is key to success in many of the threads of the blog.
If you had come forth with new information, and carried forth with notes about developing events, yes, under those circumstances, I’ve seen dialogue develop and progress, parallel to the announced subject matter on a thread.
But iirc, what you did, and apparently have done before, if I understood Siun’s comments correctly, was basically try to halt the current discussion totally with repeated comments essentially saying, “listen to me, listen to me, listen to me, my subject is more important, listen to me.” This series, admittedly exaggerated by me here for purposes of example only, gives us nothing by way of information worth totally interrupting an ongoing discussion.
If, in the future, you hear/see something supremely important and “live”, try to relate, as simply as possible, what the subject matter is, with a link to further info. if appropriate, and with an intro of “OT” so people can shift their focus smoothly from the subject on which they are currently focused.
If other people find it compelling enough to join in discussion with you on the spur of the moment, then some will. And FDL has indeed successfully carried on parallel discussions.
Many others might make a notation and catch up with your suggestion shortly. FDL dawgies are notoriously good at multi-tasking, but it’s just not suitable for everyone in every instance. Maybe they’re coping with a cranky child or boss, something boiling over on the stove or an urgent appointment, or maybe they’re searching deep in some archives to ferret out info. desperately needed for the discussion at hand.
Finally, most people here know that, these days, EVERYTHING is taped, and replayable. You may very well see a comment thread devoted to what happened today at Columbia, with all the bells & whistles appended. But that takes time, especially with limited resources. I personally am blown away by prompt, in-depth coverage of important topics here.
Since you are so rivited to today’s events (and frankly, I don’t blame you), why don’t you do some research of your own, and be ready with links to back up your statements in a discussion which is sure to come soon.
We’re figuratively all in the same boat.
If you’ll keep bailing, I promise to do the same.
This is a great ad and if the other candidates can’t figure out that all the troops must get out of Iraq, then Richardson must go up in the polls and get much more support from the progressive bloggers.
I keep asking myself why Edwards can’t figure this out?
SufiLizard @ 23
I just heard him on C-SPAN this evening in a Q&A situation with journalists. He sounded great.
I don’t know why people are concerned about his health care plan. His description of it sounded pretty good.
Interestingly, he says he considered the single-payer universal plan and his complaints with it were that it would be pretty much impossible to get passed into law and that he had heard some arguments which lead him to feel uncertain which kind of plan was absolutely best — so he’s leaving in choice, choice for the public to make based on their own needs.
To me it seems like a pretty good step (not first obviously with CHIPS and Medicare and Medicaid already out there).
Is it ‘tough’ or is he just keeping all options open?
Keeping options open isn’t ‘tough’, ’soft’ or anything else in particular.
Siun @ 45
Nobody knows for certain what any new president is going to do, but you can decide for yourself which ones to trust and which to disregard.
Who was it that recently said, “No money, no time-lines, no excuses.”?
anne @ 63
His bosses might not like hearing they have a dictator for an employee.
Curiously, he mentioned ‘managers’ and I got the feeling he felt he was managed by the religious guys and that maybe even here in America that Bush had ‘managers’.
What would he think of the way Cheney has run the warring portfolio?
jim oconnor @ 90
I like the joke (I suppose it was) I read recently about Byrd’s age.
They say he has a personally autographed copy of the Constitution which says, “Best of luck, Bobby. — James Madison”
Also, back in the ’80s when Reagan looked pretty stupid, someone asked Byrd about being president and he said he could handle the job of being president, but that getting the job was the hard part.