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	<title>Comments on: Sunday Late Nite: The Long Haul</title>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991975</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991975</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Triangulators may know all the angles, but they’re never right.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Triangulators may know all the angles, but they’re never right.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991958</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991958</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-991098&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;TeddySanFran @ 303&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/23/AR2007092301503.html?hpid=sec-politics&quot;&gt;Evan Bayh&lt;/a&gt; jumps on the Hillary Veep train, after Vilsack and Clark.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
NEW YORK — Democratic Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana will endorse Hillary Rodham Clinton’s presidential bid on Monday, sources close to both lawmakers say.&lt;br /&gt;
…
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is all-Hillary-all-the-time campaigning. I wonder if it will sway anyone.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I guess the Clintons are/were worried that just being close might lead to some questioning of the inevitability of her victory, so they’re trying to blitz people.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is this the voice of Power or of Desperation?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Do we really care if it isn’t the voice for People?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-991098"><em>TeddySanFran @ 303</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/23/AR2007092301503.html?hpid=sec-politics">Evan Bayh</a> jumps on the Hillary Veep train, after Vilsack and Clark.</p>
<blockquote><p>
NEW YORK — Democratic Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana will endorse Hillary Rodham Clinton’s presidential bid on Monday, sources close to both lawmakers say.<br />
…
</p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p>This is all-Hillary-all-the-time campaigning. I wonder if it will sway anyone.</p>
<p>I guess the Clintons are/were worried that just being close might lead to some questioning of the inevitability of her victory, so they’re trying to blitz people.</p>
<p>Is this the voice of Power or of Desperation?</p>
<p>Do we really care if it isn’t the voice for People?</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991914</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991914</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-990920&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;marymccurnin @ 133&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-990917&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Loo Hoo. @ 129&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hillary plays chess.  Very smart cookie.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;All the rest of em play checkers.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hillary isn’t playing ‘chess’. She’s playing Go and was given a 20 stone spot by the Rich.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-990920"><em>marymccurnin @ 133</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-990917"><em>Loo Hoo. @ 129</em></a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Hillary plays chess.  Very smart cookie.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>All the rest of em play checkers.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hillary isn’t playing ‘chess’. She’s playing Go and was given a 20 stone spot by the Rich.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991904</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991904</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-990888&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;bg @ 106&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;HRC got top billing on the front page of the NYT today also.  “Consolidating her lead” or some such. So I would call it a full six pak.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Looks like she’s the “great white hope” of the Republicans, er Conservative Rich Party.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They must really not think any Republican can get elected to shift their support so obviously to the DLC Dem.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-990888"><em>bg @ 106</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>HRC got top billing on the front page of the NYT today also.  “Consolidating her lead” or some such. So I would call it a full six pak.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Looks like she’s the “great white hope” of the Republicans, er Conservative Rich Party.</p>
<p>They must really not think any Republican can get elected to shift their support so obviously to the DLC Dem.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991885</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991885</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-990871&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;TeddySanFran @ 92&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-990863&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Ann in AZ @ 86&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
… so what possible excuse can Hillary have for this morning.  … Just when you think it’s safe to go back…&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hillary has convinced me that the triangulating we criticized Bill for may have been largely her doing. … and then went on five Sunday gabfests as her old warmongering self.  It’s a delicate balancing act, and she is very good at it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Does anybody remember the last time someone got to go on all five Sunday gabfests the same day?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What you’re seeing is the cold dead hand of American Conservatism reaching out of the crypt and grabbing hold of a corner of the large tapestry of the Democratic Party and pulling us down to the darkness. Hillary is a willing tuggee.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Too bad we can’t just cut her loose and let her go with ‘em. But, she wants it all.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-990871"><em>TeddySanFran @ 92</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-990863"><em>Ann in AZ @ 86</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>
… so what possible excuse can Hillary have for this morning.  … Just when you think it’s safe to go back…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hillary has convinced me that the triangulating we criticized Bill for may have been largely her doing. … and then went on five Sunday gabfests as her old warmongering self.  It’s a delicate balancing act, and she is very good at it.</p>
<p>Does anybody remember the last time someone got to go on all five Sunday gabfests the same day?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>What you’re seeing is the cold dead hand of American Conservatism reaching out of the crypt and grabbing hold of a corner of the large tapestry of the Democratic Party and pulling us down to the darkness. Hillary is a willing tuggee.</p>
<p>Too bad we can’t just cut her loose and let her go with ‘em. But, she wants it all.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991873</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991873</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-990858&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;SnarKassandra @ 81&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
…&lt;br /&gt;
But nobody TALKS to us about politics. … Politics ignores US.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Politicians reflect you. They won’t go pandering to you until you vote and show your interests or that you’ll vote for their opponent.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-990858"><em>SnarKassandra @ 81</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>
…<br />
But nobody TALKS to us about politics. … Politics ignores US.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Politicians reflect you. They won’t go pandering to you until you vote and show your interests or that you’ll vote for their opponent.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991870</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991870</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-990849&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Blub @ 73&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I’d call for DiFi’s resignation, but, unfortunately, we have a rethug governor, and I think I know who he’d appoint.  And that’s just plain scary to contemplate.. so, unfortunately, we have DiFi.  Not representing us.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Remember when California was known as all Liberal and wacky out there?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What happened? Did Big Money decide they had to get a handle on that or did the people change?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-990849"><em>Blub @ 73</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>I’d call for DiFi’s resignation, but, unfortunately, we have a rethug governor, and I think I know who he’d appoint.  And that’s just plain scary to contemplate.. so, unfortunately, we have DiFi.  Not representing us.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Remember when California was known as all Liberal and wacky out there?</p>
<p>What happened? Did Big Money decide they had to get a handle on that or did the people change?</p>
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		<title>By: Tanbark</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991650</link>
		<dc:creator>Tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 15:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991650</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;John Lewis; you’re not silly.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Edwards has said:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Repeatedly, and flatly, with no Clintonesque farting and tapdancing, that his 2002 vote to authorize was a mistake.  Not a misjudgement; not misinformed (which they all were)…just WRONG.  BTW, sooner or later, Clinton is going to HAVE to do this, and won’t she look principled, as it’s being shoved down her throat? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;His first day in office, he will close the prison at Guantanamo.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Insurance companies do not need to be IN on the healh care debates, as Hillary wants them to be.   Edwards says, straight-up, that they need to be OUT of the equation. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He, too, talks about keeping troops in the mid-east, but he wants them in Kuwait, and possibly, the Kurdish north.   Both options are more sensible and more realistic than keeping a reduced number in Iraq, although none of the major candidates, except Richardson, has opted for a complete “out, now.” plan, that I know of.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Access to pre-school for EVERY child. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Edwards catches hell for being a personal-injury lawyer.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Right.  I’m really turned off by the fact that he’s made money in lawsuits on behalf of people who’ve been injured by corporate negiligence.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    As for Clinton, all we need to do is keep forcing her to talk about Iraq, because every time she opens her mouth on that subject, she sounds very much like george bush.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; And with those 170,000 troops basically serving as hostages to cover junior’s legacy-ass in Iraq, and with that $2.5 billion dollars a week disappearing into the mesopotamian sand (and Blackwater and KBR’s coffers), in the near future, she’s gonna have to fish or cut bait.  :o)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Lewis; you’re not silly.  </p>
<p>Edwards has said:</p>
<p>Repeatedly, and flatly, with no Clintonesque farting and tapdancing, that his 2002 vote to authorize was a mistake.  Not a misjudgement; not misinformed (which they all were)…just WRONG.  BTW, sooner or later, Clinton is going to HAVE to do this, and won’t she look principled, as it’s being shoved down her throat? </p>
<p>His first day in office, he will close the prison at Guantanamo.</p>
<p>The Insurance companies do not need to be IN on the healh care debates, as Hillary wants them to be.   Edwards says, straight-up, that they need to be OUT of the equation. </p>
<p>He, too, talks about keeping troops in the mid-east, but he wants them in Kuwait, and possibly, the Kurdish north.   Both options are more sensible and more realistic than keeping a reduced number in Iraq, although none of the major candidates, except Richardson, has opted for a complete “out, now.” plan, that I know of.</p>
<p>Access to pre-school for EVERY child. </p>
<p>Edwards catches hell for being a personal-injury lawyer.   </p>
<p>Right.  I’m really turned off by the fact that he’s made money in lawsuits on behalf of people who’ve been injured by corporate negiligence.  </p>
<p>    As for Clinton, all we need to do is keep forcing her to talk about Iraq, because every time she opens her mouth on that subject, she sounds very much like george bush.  </p>
<p> And with those 170,000 troops basically serving as hostages to cover junior’s legacy-ass in Iraq, and with that $2.5 billion dollars a week disappearing into the mesopotamian sand (and Blackwater and KBR’s coffers), in the near future, she’s gonna have to fish or cut bait.  :o)</p>
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		<title>By: Tanbark</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991610</link>
		<dc:creator>Tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 15:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991610</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Frank Probst; Good post.  I hope you’re right about New Hampshire.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And especially, I hope that Edwards can pull out Iowa.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Those of us who think that nominating Hillary Clinton will be the greatest example of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in the existence of the phrase, will be watching and hoping that the candidacy for someone who simply can’t be elected, will start to implode.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;     I too, was a supporter of hers.   I was delighted when she won the senate seat.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    And now, I’m appalled.   She’s jumped in and out of bed with bush and the warbots like a $5 hooker.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    I had no idea she was this cyinical and unprincipled.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    Worse, I had no idea she was so politically stupid.   She’s abandoned her rock-solid natural base, the progressive wing of the party, to suck up to the very people who’ve dragged us into this misery, and whom will do anything to sustain it, rather than have to admit what a fuckup it was. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    And she’s doing it at a time when events in Iraq are moving to the point that no amount of spin, no amount of GOP shitspeak, will hide the reality of what bush and his supporters have created. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    What a wizard!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And what political acumen to triangulate rightward, when not 1% of the people who voted for bush in either of the last two elections, will vote for HER.  They hate her with a white-hot hatred.   There could be three minute clips of her shining Laura Bush’s shoes and mopping the floors at the Crawford ranch, airing on Fauxnews, and she couldn’t get elected dogcatcher, with the votes she’d get from registered republicans.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    The independents are not much better, for her.  Nor, even, conservative democrats.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    Her candidacy is a disaster waiting to happen, for our side, and a Rovian wet dream, for the republicans.  That’s why we’ve heard so little criticism of her from them, other than the de riguer slap, en passant, as they go after Edwards and Obama.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    Especially, Edwards, whom our corporate lords view with something akin to Scrooge McDuck peeing his feathers as the Beagle Boys head for his money vault.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    Edwards isn’t perfect, and he and Elizabeth just flat brain-farted on their dissing of MoveOn, for their play on words of Petrolus’ name (thank you, Whitehouse.org…:o)) but he’s the best of the lot, IMHO, and if you want to see some pre-emptive swiftboating during the PRIMARY races, keep your eye on what the repubs will try to do to HIS candidacy, vs. Hillary’s.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As always, the caveat on ALL of the democrats is:  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Will they let bush and the GOP write them into their political will, as idiot-heirs of the cluster d’phuque?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Stay tuned.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank Probst; Good post.  I hope you’re right about New Hampshire.</p>
<p>And especially, I hope that Edwards can pull out Iowa.  </p>
<p>Those of us who think that nominating Hillary Clinton will be the greatest example of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in the existence of the phrase, will be watching and hoping that the candidacy for someone who simply can’t be elected, will start to implode.</p>
<p>     I too, was a supporter of hers.   I was delighted when she won the senate seat.</p>
<p>    And now, I’m appalled.   She’s jumped in and out of bed with bush and the warbots like a $5 hooker.   </p>
<p>    I had no idea she was this cyinical and unprincipled.   </p>
<p>    Worse, I had no idea she was so politically stupid.   She’s abandoned her rock-solid natural base, the progressive wing of the party, to suck up to the very people who’ve dragged us into this misery, and whom will do anything to sustain it, rather than have to admit what a fuckup it was. </p>
<p>    And she’s doing it at a time when events in Iraq are moving to the point that no amount of spin, no amount of GOP shitspeak, will hide the reality of what bush and his supporters have created. </p>
<p>    What a wizard!</p>
<p>And what political acumen to triangulate rightward, when not 1% of the people who voted for bush in either of the last two elections, will vote for HER.  They hate her with a white-hot hatred.   There could be three minute clips of her shining Laura Bush’s shoes and mopping the floors at the Crawford ranch, airing on Fauxnews, and she couldn’t get elected dogcatcher, with the votes she’d get from registered republicans.  </p>
<p>    The independents are not much better, for her.  Nor, even, conservative democrats.</p>
<p>    Her candidacy is a disaster waiting to happen, for our side, and a Rovian wet dream, for the republicans.  That’s why we’ve heard so little criticism of her from them, other than the de riguer slap, en passant, as they go after Edwards and Obama.   </p>
<p>    Especially, Edwards, whom our corporate lords view with something akin to Scrooge McDuck peeing his feathers as the Beagle Boys head for his money vault.  </p>
<p>    Edwards isn’t perfect, and he and Elizabeth just flat brain-farted on their dissing of MoveOn, for their play on words of Petrolus’ name (thank you, Whitehouse.org…:o)) but he’s the best of the lot, IMHO, and if you want to see some pre-emptive swiftboating during the PRIMARY races, keep your eye on what the repubs will try to do to HIS candidacy, vs. Hillary’s.</p>
<p>As always, the caveat on ALL of the democrats is:  </p>
<p>Will they let bush and the GOP write them into their political will, as idiot-heirs of the cluster d’phuque?  </p>
<p>Stay tuned.</p>
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		<title>By: shoephone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991413</link>
		<dc:creator>shoephone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/23/sunday-late-nite-the-long-haul/#comment-991413</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I spoke to Cantwell’s office the other day. The reason she didn’t vote on Cornyn’s stupid amendment was due to a medical emergency.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spoke to Cantwell’s office the other day. The reason she didn’t vote on Cornyn’s stupid amendment was due to a medical emergency.</p>
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