I've been reading Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine and it's a remarkable work. She advances a theory of "disaster capitalism" moulded around the work of Milton Friedman, who advocated taking advantage of the "shock" suffered by a populace in the midst of disaster in order to get them to agree to things they ordinarily would organize and fight against.
She cites the land grab in southeast Asia after the tsunami that seized local fishing harbors for huge tourist resorts as well as the privatization of the public school system in New Orleans as prime examples of this. (BTW, she does not think that Hurricane Katrina was mismanaged due to either incompetence or cronyism, but rather by intent, in order to facilitate "orchestrated raids on the public sphere in the wake of catastrophic events.")
She traces the history of Friedman and the Chicago School economists who used Chile and Indonesia as their petri dishes, and maintains that there are three parts to the "shock" doctrine:
Chile's coup, when it finally came, would feature three distinct forms of shock, a recipe that would be duplicated in neighboring countries and would reemerge, three decades later, in Iraq. The shock of the coup itself was immediately followed by two additional forms of shock. One was Milton Friedman's capitalist "shock treatment," a technique in which hundreds of Latin American economists had by now been trained at the University of Chicago and its various franchise institutions. The other was Ewen Cameron's shock, drug and sensory deprivation research, now codified as torture techniques in the Kubark manual and disseminated through extensive CIA training programs for Latin America police and military.
These three forms of shock converged on the bodies of Latin Americans and the body politic of the region, creating an unstoppable hurricane of mutually reinforcing destruction and reconstruction, erasure and creation. The shock of the coup prepared the ground for economic shock therapy; the shock of the torture chamber terrorized anyone thinking of standing in the way of the economic shocks. Out of this live laboratory emerged the first Chicago School state, and the first victory in its global counterrevolution.
Ewen Cameron's research in the 50s at McGill University's Allan Memorial Institute for the CIA involved the use of sensory deprivation, drugs and electroshock to "brainwash" his subjects and create a "clean slate" such that he could get people to agree to things they would normally fight against.
Sound familiar?
Mamdouh Habib, an Australian who was incarcerated there, has said that "Guantanamo Bay is an experiment...and what they experiment in is brainwashing." Indeed, in the testimonies, reports and photographs that have come out of Guantanamo, it is as if the Allan Memorial Institute of the 1950s had been transported to Cuba. When first detained, prisoners are put into intense sensory deprivation, with hoods, blackout goggles and heavy headphones to block out all sound. They are left in isolation cells for months, taken out only to have their senses bombarded with barking dogs, strobe lights and endless tape loops of babies crying, music blaring and cats meowing.
For many prisoners, the effects of these techniques have been much the same as they were at the Allan in the fifties: total regression. One released prisoner, a British citizen, told his lawyers that there is now an entire section of the prison, Delta Block, reserved for "at least fifty" detainees who are in permanently delusional states.
Today, from the AP:
Attorneys for at least 40 Guantanamo Bay prisoners have been barred from visiting or writing their clients because of a judge's order dismissing legal challenges to the men's confinement, the U.S. Department of Justice said Friday.
A Justice Department lawyer informed the attorneys of the new restrictions in an e-mail that cited Thursday's dismissal of their cases by District Court Judge Ricardo Urbina in Washington.
"In light of this development, counsel access (both legal mail and in-person visits) is no longer permitted," Justice Department lawyer Andrew I. Warden said in the e-mail.
Torture isn't the unfortunate result of "a few bad apples," nor is it the byproduct of a George Bush personality disorder (though that probably doesn't hurt).
It's part of the program.
(Naomi Klein will be joining us for the FDL Book Salon on November 18. I highly recommend taking advantage of the time between now and then to get your hands on the book and read it, you'll want to be part of this discussion. She'll also be over at the HuffPo doing a live blog session with John Cusack tomorrow afternoon.)
Login Here
Spotlight



Support this site!
Keep
up with news
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search


RSS/XML Feed
3
Jane!!!
Wow Jane - thanks. I can’t wait to read Klein’s book!
Siun @ 3
It’s remarkable. It really does put a lot of the pieces together in looking back at what’s been done to us (and by that I mean the world) by the Bush Administration.
Yup, this book’s in my cart, soon as I clear out some other bills, I’m ordering…
I just ordered the two Naomis’ books. Looking forward to the discussions.
To me the most shocking thing about the video of Padilla being taken to the dentist was the fact that the video was released. To see a man in chains, wearing “ear muffs” and black out goggles was horrifying; the release of the video indicated that the people doing it considered it routine and no big deal.
Steve-AR @ 7
It was released to scare the crap out of all of us.
If you liked Shock Doctrine (disclosure; I have just ordered the book so I am going by interviews I have heard with Naomi), I highly recommend “Empires Workshop” by Professor Greg Grandin. It describes US “experiments” in Latin America that were later unleashed on the rest of the world.
How do the folks engaged in this sort of horror not realize their work is outright satanic?
There was a devilish deal done when Hitler’s “intelligence” henchmen and torture specialists were brought wholesale into the U.S. (in violation of everything we say we hold dear) under Operation Paper Clip.
All because we hated the Soviet Union so much, apparently. Deals with the devil never end up going so well, or so Faust would say.
Jane,
What a great essay about this important book. You
may beARE one of the most practical and pragmatic radicals in recent journalism. You’ve taught me a lot over the past 27 months. But you obviously learn a lot from the experiences gained by participating in the comments to your essays.Naomi Klein is one of my heroes too.
That is an excellent book.
Here’s the most authoritative interview with Klein about “the doctrine.”
Steve-AR @ 7
it’s scary how a human can become so desensitized to violence, especially in this guise.
Hmmm. I entered a comment and it disappeared. I guess that means it’s in moderation? I refreshed the whole page via F5 and I see nothing of it, not even the “your comment is in moderation” warning.
Now I have to guess what I wrote — I swear I don’t remember using any words like spec*al*st. Too bad I didn’t think to save the comment on my clipboard…
are their men and women this vile in our country? ….yup,they are running the country,and getting filthy rich doing it…
oops, it went through, yay!!!
Please ignore my remarks at #15.
Ed*ard Teller @ 13
thank you!
Crisis and the rebuilding of social networks is one of the things I talk about in my dissertation.
Now this is evil.
Hi Jane,
So the “heckva job Brownie” was really sincere if Naomi’s is correct about Katrina.
bg @ 6
Naomi Wolf’s book is amazing too. She’s going to be here this week (hopefully) doing something on Blackwater for us.
Millineryman @ 21
you just sent chills down my spine with that thought.
Jane,
Thanks for highlighting this book, and for arranging for an FDL Book Salon with Naomi Klein!
I watched the extended interview that Amy Goodman did with her on Democracy Now! and was impressed with how many diverse threads of Bush-Cheney madness were explained by her thesis. I think with her book, one could make a case that the Bush Administration presents a prime example of what a coup from within looks like. And they still have more than a year in office!!!
Bob in HI
Millineryman @ 21
That’s right. And if you try to point this out to anyone, you are told to take off your tin foil hat.
Millineryman @ 21
You got it.
Just got home and got my beautiful hats, Millineryman! They are SO beautiful. I LOVE the red one (the black one is adorable too, though).
There’s no question but that a disaster creates fear and fear creates fertile ground for dictatorish behavior. We’ve seen it- nice that someone is writing about it..
Would be interesting to read about cases in which it has been successfully defeated.
Strong “free-traders” do not believe in public education. It takes money out of their pockets, helps the undeserving, and there is no profit opportunity there.
I’ve come to the conclusion that one goal of recent “intelligent design” push is not necessarily to get religion taught in school instead of or as an alternative to evolution, but instead to convince say 30% of the population that public education is immoral and should be destroyed.
The ID backers have been well funded by the rich and I doubt the piousity of many of their motives.
marymccurnin @ 8
Mary, left a post for you - last one - on Ian’s last night you may find useful.
I went to a lecture @ UCSB in Santa Barbara about the evolution of torture techniques by US government. There are several components but what struck me is that sensory deprivation is the most insidious and damaging, corroborating this book’s findings, most insidious because the technique leaves no evidence. Chilling what our government is engaged in. The word has been endlessly overused but torture is evil and soul destroying to both perpetrator and victim.
Jane Hamsher @ 26
So glad to hear it. Wear them well.
The UK Guardian recently ran a good exposition of Klein’s book, including 4 extracts and some videos
Shock Doctrine
Great post. It is amazing to think how much of what these people do is driven by ideology - even when they fuck up. Hope you are well
The US of A is still suffering from the throes of “Turbanisis” an irrational fear of humans wearing cloth on their heads. There is no known cure.
Thank you for the review of this book…. I have found that I just cannot read them anymore… it started with Glenn Greenwald’s first book where chapter after chapter it would be flung across the room and the hardbacks make dents in the drywall..
I end up with this stack of half read books with dented corners and buying drywall patch in big buckets.
Where does such evil come from?
Josef Mengele has nothing on these Gitmo guys! Evil is alive and well, and he’s a Republican.
This is what happens when the top ruling elite free themselves from any restraint whatsoever on their behavior.
Perhaps this is what Little Boots meant when he said, “They hate us for our freedom”?
Mrs. K8 @ 10
The banality of evil.
The Framers’ intent with respect to checks & balances & accountability was for precisely the abatement of this sort of thing.
“Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
The historical and experimental empirical evidence supporting the maxim is blindingly dispositive.
Hi Mrs. K8… how are you?
peony @ 28
Got it! Thanks.
Jane,
Saw your “To The Contrary” appearance this morning. Was glad to see you smack-down “Slow Ride” Jowls again. But then, there’s never a bad time, is there?
As to your post, well it seems…
Shorter Repug Philosophy: “Shock and Awe for Fun and Profit.”
bill clinton’s version of shock and awe? from IMF’S FOUR STEPS TO DAMNATION:
Ed*ard Teller @ 13
second that.
listening to this interview was what convinced me i have to read this book.
Speaking of Chile. And shock treatment. Why is Henry Kissinger still free?
Hey katymine!
Haven’t been around here much lately — a new JOB! plus more medical problems (Morton’s neuroma) plus our first ever real vacation (”down the shore” in NJ) plus getting ready for a work conference trip to Maine with Mr. K8.
How are YOU??? I heard someone mention the other day that you were having a test of some sort, so I’ve put you in my nightly prayer list, but I don’t know any of the details.
Here’s hoping you are doing just fine, and that the test in question doesn’t involve anything serious.
Virtual hugs and kisses coming your way!
marymccurnin @ 8
It made me want to buy a gun and ammo, fast. Before they took that right away, too.
Mrs. K8 @ 10
Ends justifies means? or ignorance - “avidya,” delusion - “maya,” denial, compartmentalization - take your pick.
Some of Guantanamo Bay’s problem maybe military research which is necessary gone awry and should be pulled back.
A broken society which is experiencing confusion and chaos is much more easier to expliot.
peony @ 47
Denial must be a big piece of this. I believe that in their heart of hearts (not that you could ever force them to reveal that to you) they KNOW they are doing evil.
I believe that torturers too are destroyed by the torture they do.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
Probably working on a contract to provide nun-sized waterboards to the Myanmar government.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
he is very careful about where he travels.
selise @ 50
It’s nice to know he has to look over his shoulder alot…
selise @ 41
Me three.
Bob in HI
Henry Kissinger continues to advise the Bush administration. Kissinger is a mover and shaker in Republican circles.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 42
Not only free, but roaming the corridors of the White House!!!
Bob in HI
I’ve posted the whole Bill Maher from this week on Youtube.
Enjoy!
JT
Greenspan is upset with Hillary.
Greenspan says Democrats wrong on free trade
Party — including Hillary — is moving away from President Clinton positions
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20942073/
Mrs. K8 at 10 and 48
I suspect strongly that the whole business depends on an all-volunteer army, in which everyone is on the same team.
Most excellent!
Thanks, Jane!
Everyone buy this book!
Alecia @ 46
The Bush presidency in a nutshell.
Going to hear and see Naomi on Wednesday. Check out her book tour here.
Just heard John Nichols on AA say that the new money Bush is seeking, funds the war after he leaves!
That there is money now to take the war thru 2008. time to cut them off and filibuster if necessary.
Friedman and Greenspan. Fuck them. I’ll take John Kenneth Galbraith.
“John Kenneth Galbraith was America’s most famous economist for good reason. A witty commentator on America’s political follies and a versatile author of bestselling books that warn prophetically of the dangers of deregulated markets, corporate greed, and inattention to the costs of our military power…”
TeddySanFran @ 60
Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Victoria, but nowhere in Alaska. How cruel! I know she’s Canadian, but it’s so unfair - only rightwing wackos come to Alaska to promote their books.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 62
Galbraith’s son Peter is a strong supporter of the Kurds
I think he’d like to see a separate Kurdistan
Oklahoma kiddo @ 62
i’m pretty much a big fan of stiglitz. especially after the seattle police riot against the people protesting the wto meeting in 1999… i heard stiglitz give a lecture in seattle (by podcast, natch) and he told the audience that the protesters were right.
If anyone one wants to know the things are here in Arizona and the Democratic Party read this kos diary by a Iraq Veteran.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/23/141832/166
Thank you Jane. I look forward to reading this book.
As a psychologist, I’m ashamed that my professional organization has failed to take an acceptable stand against its members’ participation in the interrogation of prisoners at Guantanomo and elsewhere. I have joined a wonderful group of psychologists who are volunteering to withhold our dues to the APA until the organization adopts a ethical stance.
The Australian Psychological Association is meeting very soon and is also struggling with this issue. You can sign a petition supporting their efforts to ensure that Australian psychologists adhere to an ethical standard by following this www.ethicalapa.com/" rel="nofollow">link to Psychologists for an Ethical APA.
Scroll down to a graph re: Australia. There will be instructions on how to log in to sign the petition (it’s far easier than I just made it sound).
THANK YOU!
when is susan faludi coming to jane’s book salon? i don’t see it on the list, and i want to know which book to read first (faludi’s or klein’s).
Clearly, Heinrich Himmler was an amateur.
Now the pros have taken over. *shudder*
selise @ 65
Stiglitz is one of the good guys.
Elliott @ 64
He is a man of principle. And he doesn’t like U.S. policy in Iraq one little bit.
katymine –
If you already saw my response to you at #44, then never mind. :-)
But if you didn’t, I’d hate for you to miss it inadvertently.
Jane, I just ordered the book. Thanks for everything including the kind of advance notice a hillbilly needs to order, receive, and read a book before the FDL salon.
Laura Doty @ 67
sometimes it seems that life is one big circle.
from jane’s review:
from wikipedia:
Mrs. K8 @ 72
I did…. Glad you found a job… sorry about the health issues…. They found a “tumor” on my left kidney last week and having more tests…. consults and should know more as time goes on AND I feel great now that the bladder infection is gone.
Well better get my weekly stuff done so that I can spend the week studying for my tests :P
So sickening. The NO schools were such a disaster before Katrina hit; so sober excuses for such neglect. Many people think much of the Katrina inaction is merely to keep the Black population from returning; keep the rich white garden distict and French Quarter safe for the Haves. Of course, that exclusionary, do not return policy is quite easy to carry out by simply not having any affordable housing and not letting Black citizens return to their own homes. It was immediately clear that the poor citizens stranded at the SuperDome were the generations of the NO citizens who received little to no public education.
selise @ 74
Yes, indeed. A very ugly circle. But, in fairness, the American Psychiatric Association (as well as the AMA and the ANA) IS adhering to a more ethical stance that the Amer. Psychological Assoc.
How in the world can a nation’s economic policy be based on cut taxes and spend?
Laura Doty @ 77
this time.
i meant it more as a cultural statement… that sometimes we don’t make good choices about the people we “respect” and give important positions to.
this time, iirc there is someone high up in the APA that is tied to army psych $? don’t remember who though.
katymine, thanks much for filling me in. Will continue to hold you in my thoughts and prayers so that you will ace your tests! Glad you are feeling well — bladder infections make one truly miserable. Enjoy the post-monsoon weather! :-)
She advances a theory of “disaster capitalism” moulded around the work of Milton Friedman, who advocated taking advantage of the “shock” suffered by a populace in the midst of disaster in order to get them to agree to things they ordinarily would organize and fight against.
9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!
OT
or not OT?
Moon Bases
scares me, is it to be military in space?
Is Mukasey a political hack?
After President Bush settled on Michael Mukasey to be his next attorney general, White House officials were privately worried about how conservatives would react given the ex-judge’s lack of “movement” credentials. But in a series of private meetings arranged by chief of staff Josh Bolten prior to the nomination, Mukasey, 66, reassured top hard-liners, such as Federalist Society executive Leonard Leo and former A.G. Edwin Meese. According to three sources, who asked not to be named discussing the private meetings, Mukasey said that he saw “significant problems” with shutting down Guantánamo Bay and that he understood the need for the CIA to use some “enhanced” interrogation techniques against Qaeda suspects. Mukasey also signaled reluctance with naming a special prosecutor to investigate Bush-administration misconduct, according to one participant. “Gosh, I’m a little worried that the Democrats might have problems with him,” said one well-connected conservative after being briefed on Mukasey’s responses. But key Democrats, such as Senate Judiciary chair Patrick Leahy, view Mukasey as a more substantive, independent figure than Alberto Gonzales and have signaled that he will be quickly confirmed.
selise @ 79
Joseph Mattarazo, a past president of the APA.
bobschacht @ 52
Yep. The transcript is just chilling.
Laura, thank you for your principled opposition to torture and your willingness to demand that your professional community join you.
Although the AMA and APA have taken a stronger stand agaisnt torture, as a physician I’m still shamed by the fact that military physicians have clearly witnessed, abetted and facilitated torture in US military/CIA facilities.
I’m told the CA Medical Board has been unable to take action against MDs licensed in CA who pariticapted in US torture.
I hope the next session of the CA Legislature passes (and Ahhnuld signs) legislation specifically instucting the CA Med Board to pull licenses from MDs who assisted in torture or failed to report torture of which they became aware, or failed to observe international laws regarding inhumane treatment of detainees to which the US is party by ratified treaty.
Except IANAL, and I’ve no idea how to draft the damn thing and so I and some other docs can go pester our state Sens and Assembly members with it.
If any attorneys (or CA docs) would like to play with this, that would be super.
Stopping torture begins at home.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 83
What paper is the from, OKK?
Elliott @ 82
A place for Halibuton offshore?
Stopping torture begins with electing progressive Democrats to Congress!
littlebear @ 81
I think Ms Klein has a good (and probably valid) point about the admin’s intent to exploit disasters and other news events to impose its agenda, I still don’t think they staged 9/11. Of course, they might’ve figured that OBL would, inevitably, have attacked us in a big way at some point that year, and all the intel was pointing to such a strike, and decided that they would do nothing to thwart it.. just let it happen and then exploit the aftermath to do whatever they wanted to do.
Millineryman @ 88
yeah *s*
MM
that was nice that you sent Jane hats.
Elliott @ 91
Jane is a true inspiration for me. It’s a honor for me to give something back to her.
Millineryman @ 88
shrub effectively abrogated the treaty on nonmilitarization of space early in his term.. then the Chinese took advantage of that and successfully launched their own space warfare program (they can now shoot down satellites.. remember that high profile test a few months ago?)… so, yes, space is well on its way to being militarized… which, to Ms Klein’s meme, was probably the administration’s intent from the beginning.. or rather, the neocon intent going all the way back to Star Wars. Why not? space equipment is inevitably expensive and good for rethug campaign contributors.
As for Halliburton, I think the Sea of Tranquility (on the moon) would make an excellent corporate headquarters… perhaps Cheney should move there too.
Klien’s thesis is brilliant and I think accurate.
These people have enormous contempt for the unwashed masses and think of us as fodder or fuedal serfs… to till their fields, work in their assembly lines… buy the junk they produce and fight their wars.
It would be a hoot if her shock doctrine really got some play so that more people were aware of what our handlers have been up to.
I don’t think they’ll go quietly, but their ecoonmic theories may and probably will crash the entire world economy and then the real shock troops and techniques will be brought out into the sunlight and people will be drop jawed that this has happened in “america”.
We will be like the Germans who woke up in the 3rd Reich.
We are going to wake up in the 4th one… and it’s coming very soon.. less than 2 years away.
Blub @ 93
As long as it’s not on the dark side of the moon.
I have begun to think that at least a million person march on Wash. D.C. is the answer. Surround the capitol. Nobody in but senators and represenatatives, and nobody out until Democracy is restored, the war ended and Bushco impeached. Take a few sack lunches.
Popcorn please
We need more than a march. We need to have a nation wide general strike.
The people need to show that WE are the country and WE need to be listened to and not act like whining letter writing sheeple.
DIRECT ACTION.. GENERAL STRIKE
hawkseye @ 96
…well, msm probably won’t cover it, and it won’t yield the impact we want, unless, tragically, shrub decides to order Blackwater to fire into the crowd or something. At this point, I fear that only a Ukrainian-style general-strike-until-he-quits will work, and I don’t think the American people are quite ready for that
hawkseye @ 97
I’ve begun to wonder whether if such a march took place, American soldiers would follow orders to fire on the marchers.
gotta go trade at Joe’s… BBL
unfortunately, if we want this to go anywhere, we need our own use of the “shock doctrine”… and, not being evil, I would have no idea how to do that.
Jonathan @ 101
the more pertinent question is would Blackwater troops fire on the marchers?
Elliott @ 104
I’m sure that’s what most Blackwater stalwarts have wet dreams about… shooting libruls
Blub @ 105
ya think we could protect ourselves with silver crosses?
Blub @ 94
I’ve heard plausible arguments that the Chinese action was intended to show the need for treaties against anti-satellite weapons, rather than simply taking advantage of their absence. Basically, the Bush administration was undermining agreements against militarization of space because they are deluded into thinking that the US would could be perpetually dominant in space (the same delusion they have concerning nearly every sphere of action.) The Chinese action showed that no one can be.
it is interesting though.. their water carriers publicly advocate shooting us (or bombing San Fran.. didn’t Rush do that at one point?).. and we get lambasted (and feel ashamed) for simply calling their General mean names in the New York Times. We’re not going to win this one, are we? :P
John Tully @ 55
Nice work.
blub says at 94-”shrub effectively abrogated the treaty on nonmilitarization of space early in his term.. then the Chinese took advantage of that and successfully launched their own space warfare program (they can now shoot down satellites.. remember that high profile test a few months ago?)… so, yes, space is well on its way to being militarized… which, to Ms Klein’s meme, was probably the administration’s intent from the beginning.. or rather, the neocon intent going all the way back to Star Wars. Why not? space equipment is inevitably expensive and good for rethug campaign contributors.”
we were already doing it years ago………making that kind of weapon that is…….a few years back i was in the tire repair place-old truck, flat tire, why flat?, a corn on the cob holder, stuck in it and worn down, they thought it was a deer antler at first, no kidding, anyway, they have oodles magazines there……among them popular mechanics……found three alone that talked about a laser guided weapon of this sort—*****guess who we were perfecting it for to sell to them?*******if you guessed israel you’d be correct……….
talked about other weapons systems, too………and hydrogen reasearch and who would benefit from it, wouldn’t be us, i can tell you……..
right about that time was when bush went to an elementary school to talk about hydrogen technology instead of a memorial service for astronauts…….but by then i knew what he was up to………they want the hydrogen technology for weapons, longer life in space…..yet he was promoting cars…….
popular mechanics has a lot of info in it……..should read it.
Blub @ 99
I work in health care, i likely would not take part in a general strike simply for that reason. I have a job to take care of people when they’re in need. Despite my pure disgust with this government, i can’t not go to work for the sake of my patients. Or anyone that would be hurt that day.
Redshift @ 107
I don’t think the Chinese are that charitable. Yes, they believe do believe in the UN treaty framework (at least more than we do), but they also have embraced a doctrine of asymmetric warfare against US military supremacy, that stresses the use of advanced technologies (they develop over time) to undermine or at least neutralize our advantage in brute force/heavy hardware… hence, they now have cyberwarfare as a separate branch of their military, and hence also their emphasis on developing advanced anti-satellite missile guidance systems that are rapidly approaching those of our technology levels, and will probably soon exceed our capabilities. They want us to wear ourselves out building aircraft carriers while they invest in software and technology to make the carriers ineffective.
For the last 30 years I have been calling it the shearing of the sheep. It is something that periodically happens on a general schedule. Forcing the situation to allow the reap of big money. During Reagan’s tenure it was called the largest gravitation of wealth to the upper classes
in the known history of our country.
kirk murphy @ 86
A question (or four) for you, kirk . . .
How do military doctors relate to the state medical boards? Are they licensed by the state in which their base is located, and thus must shift their license every time they are transferred to a new post? Or are they exempt from state medical board supervision, covered instead by a military medical board that (in theory) provides the same oversight of all doctors regardless of where they are stationed? Finally, how do reserve and National Guard medical personnel fit into this scheme?
You might want to talk to a couple of military MDs to get some help in drafting this, as well as a lawyer or two.
Blub @ 102
for a non-evil method:
Waging Nonviolent Struggle: 20th Century Practice And 21st Century Potential
Is There No Other Way? The Search for a Nonviolent Future
I like the idea of a general strike even better. Maybe we need both a march and a strike.
Tully at 55 - I’m very sorry to hear about your father, my condolences.
blub at 100 says-”…well, msm probably won’t cover it, and it won’t yield the impact we want, unless, tragically, shrub decides to order Blackwater to fire into the crowd or something. At this point, I fear that only a Ukrainian-style general-strike-until-he-quits will work, and I don’t think the American people are quite ready for that”
no shots will be fired, they have a new sound machine that will obliterate a crowd, really………..no kidding……..maybe someone has now invented ’super ear plugs’…….i hope so…..
Perhaps I’m too optimistic, living here in the SF bubble…..
but with Fleet Week bringing us repeated “opportunities” to hear and feel the Blue Angeles practice strafing us, I don’t think so.
On universal health care, ending the Iraq war, affordable housing, access to safe food and water…
our progressive values ARE the mainstream values.
In a nation armed to the teeth, we are in the center. All we have to do to win is stay put. The authoritarians still don’t resonate - yet.
I look at teh big ad budgets and winger Wurlitzer, and despite the infrastucture, their message has largely failed to budge core progressive values out the US mainstream.
I’m still acutely concerned about the Bushies’ domestic detention centers, and very concerned about the Bushies’ mercenary army, Blackwater. And the Christianist Air Force.
Actually, I’ve no idea why I had any optimism at all…looking at that list.
I think I’ll scald peaches and can….
I was at the bookstore Fri nite picking up Letters from Nuremberg and almost picked up Klein’s book then, but was in a hurry and I wasn’t sure what it was about. Now I’ll have to go back.
Here’s a little piece of the story of one detainee.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t.....940199.ece
Awhile back I went down the GITMO for various reasons at a horse forum. Someone who is a good person and was leaning towards Giuliani (until I also pointed out some info from the NY firefighters that caught her eye since she’s a volunteer) truly - and I mean truly - thought that the only reason we weren’t having trials for all the GITMO detainees was bc she had read somewhere that “they won’t help their lawyers - so what can we do if we are trying to give them trials and they won’t even talk to their lawyers.”
After I overdid my response (for that setting) she was a bit stunned and she and others were a bit skeptically saying - if all that is really true, then why dont we hear about it? Why isn’t anyone doing anything about those prisoners? Why aren’t any of the candidates for President talking about it?
Makes me almost cry - well hell, it does make me cry.
Blub @ 105
Naomi Wolf in her new book talks about how to destroy a democracy in 10 easy steps, and establishing a military force outside the control of voters is a big one.
Speaking of books, Mary..)
FYI, Book Salon is upstairs
The FDL Book Salon thread is up, featuring Dan Gilgoff and his book The Jesus Machine: How James Dobson, Focus on the Family, and Evangelical America are Winning the Culture War.
Come on up and join us in discussing it if you like, but don’t let that stop the conversation down here about any- and everything else.
Jonathan @ 101
Regular army or mercenaries?
redshift at 107 says-”I’ve heard plausible arguments that the Chinese action was intended to show the need for treaties against anti-satellite weapons, rather than simply taking advantage of their absence. Basically, the Bush administration was undermining agreements against militarization of space because they are deluded into thinking that the US would could be perpetually dominant in space (the same delusion they have concerning nearly every sphere of action.) The Chinese action showed that no one can be.”
excuse me being crude——it proved that no matter how great of a fence you build, the neighbor’s cat is gonna get in and shit in your flower bed……
newtonusr @ 87
“Newsweek”.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20...../newsweek/
Jane Hamsher @ 121
Jane,
Last night I said here that that is exactly my greatest fear, and it really is something that keeps me awake at night. Blackwater’s CEO is an arch-theocon wingnut, their brigade-commanders reportedly have politically-charged “prayer-meetings” before training events, they plan a network of bases around the country… we have all of the makings of a fifth column here, and, frankly, it scares me to death. They’re Black Shirts, the same as the brown shirts in late ’20s Germany, with better hardware. Ugh. I get upset just thinking about where all of this might be heading…
Piece in the Nation (not exactly a radical paper) about Blackwater’s wingut connections, from a year ago.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060605/scahill
be afraid.
blub at 112 says-”I don’t think the Chinese are that charitable. Yes, they believe do believe in the UN treaty framework (at least more than we do), but they also have embraced a doctrine of asymmetric warfare against US military supremacy, that stresses the use of advanced technologies (they develop over time) to undermine or at least neutralize our advantage in brute force/heavy hardware… hence, they now have cyberwarfare as a separate branch of their military, and hence also their emphasis on developing advanced anti-satellite missile guidance systems that are rapidly approaching those of our technology levels, and will probably soon exceed our capabilities. They want us to wear ourselves out building aircraft carriers while they invest in software and technology to make the carriers ineffective.”
i’m convinced they were just trying to find out ‘who has what’…..by how everyone reacted, and what kinds of restraints people looked for or DIDN’T look for…….like i said, we’ve had that technology for years, and sold it to israel already…………
popular mechanics talks about anything mechanical, in it’s inception, and then when it is to be completed, with completion articles when that happens, it’s all in there………
i wish i could remember the dates for you…….it was when bush was going on and on about hydro fuels and the astronaut disaster……was being tested just previous to that……and passed on to israel the year after that…….
From the Nation article linked in #128 above:
“It’s hard to imagine that the cronyism that has marked the Bush Administration is not at play in Blackwater’s success. Blackwater founder Erik Prince shares Bush’s fundamentalist Christian views. He comes from a powerful Michigan Republican family and social circle, and his father, Edgar, helped Gary Bauer start the Family Research Council. According to a report prepared for The Nation by the Center for Responsive Politics, in all of Erik Prince’s political funding generosity since 1989, he has never given a penny to a Democrat running for national office. Company president Jackson has also given money to Republican candidates. For his part, Joseph Schmitz–the former Pentagon Inspector General turned general counsel to Blackwater’s parent, The Prince Group–lists on his résumé membership in the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, a Christian militia formed before the First Crusade. Like Prince, he comes from a right-wing family; his father, former Congressman John Schmitz, was an ultraconservative John Birch Society director who later ran for President. Joseph Schmitz was once in charge of investigating private contractors like Blackwater, but he resigned amid allegations of stonewalling investigations conducted by his department. He now represents one of the most successful of those contractors.”
Here’s a bit from a good op/ed at WaPo by Ignatious:
The estimates were circulated in January 2003. You don’t have to take my word or Pillar’s for what they said: They are posted on the Web site of the Senate intelligence committee. They make haunting reading now, to put it mildly — because nearly every setback we have seen in Iraq was forecast by Pillar and the analysts in their effort to break through the administration’s happy talk.
The opening paragraph of the estimate on “Principal Challenges in Post-Saddam Iraq” made this stark prediction: “The building of an Iraqi democracy would be a long, difficult and probably turbulent process, with potential for backsliding into Iraq’s tradition of authoritarianism.” The next paragraph warned more explicitly that “a post-Saddam authority would face a deeply divided society with a significant chance that domestic groups would engage in violent conflict.”
The second estimate, on “Regional Consequences of Regime Change in Iraq,” rightly warned that an invasion could spawn more Muslim terrorism, rather than less. Here’s how Pillar and the analysts summarized the danger on the first page: “A U.S.-led war against and occupation of Iraq would boost political Islam and increase popular sympathy for some terrorist objectives, at least in the short term.”
The CIA’s prewar cautions were ignored, and so was the consistent flow of intelligence after the March 2003 invasion about the growing insurgency in Iraq. A July 2004 assessment prepared by Pillar predicted that Iraq faced, at best, “tenuous stability” over the next 18 months and could slide into civil war. A White House spokesman dismissed a leaked account of the estimate as the work of “pessimists and naysayers.”
When Pillar gave a summary of the situation in Iraq during a private, off-the-record gathering in California in September 2004, a normal part of his job as a national intelligence officer, he was attacked publicly. Robert D. Novak denounced him by name in his syndicated column and stated that Bush and the CIA were “at war with each other.” To his credit, Pillar kept trying to sound the alarm until the day he retired.
What’s the point of this story? Sometimes, as in most of its Iraq reporting, the CIA has gotten it dead right. And when we assess the CIA, we should understand that many of its supposed failures really have another address — the White House.
kirk at 119-”I think I’ll scald peaches and can….”
mmmmmmmm, peach melba……….oh my.
Naomi has written a monumentally important book. I have read No Logo, it was amazing. This one tops it.
Sadly, what she teaches us is not learned by the ones who need this information the most…the American people.
In an on line interview she stated that while her book is already selling well in Canada and Europe, and causing much discussion, she doesn’t expect the same from America.
Brainwashing against the Left and anything even whispering socialism has already been beaten out of the American mind…such as it is. The world might have to wait until the American underclass, growing by leaps and bounds, finally awakens. I hope it is not too long a wait.
Meanwhile, the Naomi Klein’s of the real free world will keep documenting the continuing tragedies of American Imperial folly.
Congratulations, to your small yet vibrant community on this blog! I wish you were not such an anomaly.
Just lookin at some of the most recent by state polls on the dem primary. Hillary’s lead is growing quickly in the states that matter.. If anyone else is going to have a chance- they will need to make a strong move very soon. Once we get into the holidays it’s too late- and the balloting starts in January.
On the gooper side- there is an interesting trend- Romney gaining in the states that matter- (early states and big states).
If you’re in the area, please take a look at this announced anti-Blackwater protest event scheduled for October 6 and 7:
http://www.prcsd.org/encampment.html
It’s called FASCISM. Here is a great article that explains how fascist movements have acted just like how these “free market” idealogues are acting now. They propogandized, got the working classes to support the elite by telling them that the actions of the upper class leaders will “lift all of society,” had a propensity toward violence, covered up the inconsistencies of what they were saying and what they were doing by setting up “symbolic targets” (i.e. all our problems are because of the Jews), played up Nationalism to the hilt, took advantage of economic crises to force their policies through, silenced all opposition…
It’s scary - as scary as this Shock Doctrine stuff, and, I think, related. The part about them talking “freedom” and “Democracy” so much, while at the same time directly UNDERMINING THE RULE OF LAW and trying to destroy any sort of institutions that allow regular people to have any control over their own lives, like Unions or voting rights - that is the insidious-est part of it all.
The moral of these stories is that, IN A DEMOCRACY, THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO UNDERMINE THE CONSTITUTION OR THE RULE OF LAW. N-E-V-E-R. Especially not in a crisis. So denial of habeus corpus, warrantless wiretapping, torture, one-party rule, expansion of unchecked executive powers - all of those things must be stopped, or else we have to conclude that THIS IS NO LONGER A FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY.
Heaven forbid that another crisis occur under this administration!!!
and kirk-did anyone tell you about spiced peaches?????????
wow…….cinnamon, nutmeg(real nutmeg), and some put in a clove or two, although others think that is too strong………very yummy.
Only one dem went to the NRA convention- Bill Richardson. McCain made hay by blowin smoke up their asses and sayin “I see no reason to ban a certain weapon because of it’s appearance”- something any dem could have gone and said..
This “assault weapons” ban is one of the open sores of the NRA- they think it shows that dems are just fuckin stupid- as they don’t want to ban OTHER semi-automatic weapons- only those that LOOK military.
They’re right.
Well–I don’t know what Mussolini said to gain power- but Hitler claimed to be a bit of a s*cial*st. He also never won a majority in an election…
I can still remember seeing the fun film of Adolph showing the german people his gift for them- the People’s Car- (Volkswagen). He also gave em freeways to drive the thing on.
rwcole @ 139
It seems you reckon that the assault weapons ban was useless because it only banned some items. That may be true, I’m not in a position to argue about this, but I wonder, if it IS true, then how come the following was printed in a Miami paper last Wednesday?
It comes from the article entitled:
Police chiefs: Pass assault weapons ban
which can be found here:
http://www.miamiherald.com/459/story/243073.html
Am off to do p.t. in the pool now, will look for any responses later.
Here’s another story (and btw- if you are out picking up Klein’s book - think about Stephen Grey’s Ghost Plane as well - at least, if you aren’t concerned that the A*P*C rulings will make you liable for receiving classified informtation I guess)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Mar26.html
Here’s a case which had no effect on the “progressive Dems” rushing to support and even co-sponsor first the egregious DTA, then the absolutely horrifying and shameful MCA.
You had a bus of Islamic missionaries traveling through Pakistan and Kurnaz, and a German, Kurnaz (a foreigner with no local ties to anyone who wanted to, oh, say, turn in someone to the US and get the bounty $$ we were handing out) was taken off the bus and next thing you know, was being stripped, drugged, abused and processed.
Well after the fact of what appears to be his *serious Geneva violation* shipment to GITMO, when it looked like they could do some “cook the books” Tribunals to duck and dodge around war crimes issues, evidence was presented to his tribunal who found him to be an al-Qaeda member and enemy combatant.
So how did they make that determination for this non-battlefield, not battling, Missionary Bus capture? Well, the tribunal tried to tell the court “they reached their conclusion based largely on classified evidence that was too sensitive to release to the public.”
And sensitive it was too. Because the evidence was over a hundred pages of US and German investigations. THe US Command Intelligence Taks force found during their investigations, for example, that there was
CTIF goes on to say in that highly classified into that it was probably a “mistake” to ever take Kurnaz off the bus. But there’s more.
German investigators were asked to check him out too (all after the fact of shipment)
So what was the evidence? Over a hundred pages of investigations, documented, that were all exculpatory. Oh, and a very short memo. The “R-19″ memo. Where an unidentified gov official makes the conclusory statements, with no support, that Kurnaz is an al-Qaeda member. You know the drill.
Oh, we’ve engaged in human trafficking to buy a guy and then we commited war crimes to abuse him and ship him to GITMO and continued in the ongoing and knowing commission of those crimes as the exculpatory evidence started building and building - uh, someon go paper the file real fast with the statement he’s an al-Qaeda member so the tribunal has something.
Even the immoralists, like Kmiec from Pepperdine, realized that golly, that isn’t a good case and outcome. So, having testified over and over in favor of unchecked Executive power to engage in kidnap and torture, and in favor of not allowing courts to have any access to the GITMO cases, what does Mr. “Oh my, is there really a REAL WORLD out ther” have to say?
Show of hands for anyone who thinks the Kurnaz case DID prompt that kind of military review. Further show of hands for anyone who thinks that the failure to have that kind of review changed Kmiec’s and the Bushbots take that GITMO is just, golly, the only thing you can do with all these “battlefield of the mind” captures.
So having had a chance to look at the “classified records” (a chance that the detainee doesn’t get for tribunals and, since the detainee only got a “representative” and not a lawyer for the tribunals and the “representative” didn’t actually represent the detainee - anyway, someone finally gets to see the evidence (like in the case of the chef above, who was making souffles in Mayfair while the “secret evidence” said he was being an al-Qaeda General at a training camp) and it is very clear that they shouldn’t have Kurnaz.
Except to the Military Tribunal, which was willing to hold on to him and let GITMO Mengele’s experiment with him forever and talk sternly about how he’s the worst of the worst, and that he no doubt would only be suicidally depressed if he was following an assymetric warfare gameplan etc. Go find Levin, Clinton, Obama, Edwards, Dodd, etc. - anyone asking what the hell was going on with this guy.
Then to to it off, that “sensitive info” that was all excuplaptory - after DOJ lost in front of the Dist Court judge (but were continuing to hold and abuse Kurnaz anyway)the detainee’s counsel, Azmy, got this word:
After the WaPo piece, he was quietly returned to Germany. There, they thought it might be a good idea to investigate what happened.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pap.....german.php
But apparently all that “sensitive” information - that kept him at GIMTO for 5 years - well, the US just can’t trust the Germans with it.
After all, look what happened when the Canadians did an investigation into the torture conspiracy of Maher Arar.
rwcole-”Well–I don’t know what Mussolini said to gain power- but Hitler claimed to be a bit of a s*cial*st. He also never won a majority in an election…
I can still remember seeing the fun film of Adolph showing the german people his gift for them- the People’s Car- (Volkswagen). He also gave em freeways to drive the thing on.”
julierb had a link at 137 about mussolini and such…..
thank you mary, i got your post and will pass it on, with the links.
Just to throw in my view on the question of whether blackwater mercenaries would fire on crowds of protestors. Remember that they have hired many non-US citizens. For instance, Chilean special forces veterans already have the view that the protestors are enemies. There are others that could be mentioned. Anyway, we know that, given Pat Tillman’s death, American soldiers are not loathe to fire on their own.
This stuff makes me so angry. I don’t really have words that can accurately convey what I think about torture or of those who apologize for torture. And my opinion of the “shock therapy” school of economics, which completely devestated Russia and bears great responsibility for the rise of Putin and authoritarianism, likewise no bounds.
Economies can work for ordinary people. It’s not that damn hard to do.
Of course Blackwater mercenaries would fire on civilians. Protesters to them are traitors already, and anyone who doesn’t obey orders deserves to be shot anyway.
And don’t kid yourself that a lot of people in the military wouldn’t fire either. They don’t think much of DFHs either, and they are very used to doing what they’re told.
The military might check things, but if so that will be a question of various command level decisions - which is why the Republicans have been choosing generals very carefully.
These torturers make me sick. May they one day be brought to justice.
So the Dubai-based corporation known as Halliburton has an incentive to create Armageddon so it and its partners can do a leverage buyout of the whole world on the cheap. If anyone could do it, it would take having the US military, the energy resources of the Saudis, the Israeli security apparatus, and the obedient cooperation and production of the Chinese. I doubt they could get the power elites of all these groups to cooperate — I mean raw uncontrolled power isn’t that attractive, is it?
peony @ 29
Re: sensory deprivation torture
The CIA Torture Manual could be a blank book.
In fact, it should be a blank book and torture should never ever be done by Americans.
Mrs. K8 @ 36
But, it’s not their Freedom, it’s what they’re doing with it — torture, murder, theft, blackmail, etc.
Someone like George Washington or FDR had tremendous “freedom” and power when they first went into office and yet they used that to do great good. Obviously Shrub isn’t one of the greats.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 53
I wonder, what’s the penalty Colin Powell might face for lying to the world at the U.N.
I finished the whole thing this morning. It took me the better part of a week, and it was well worth it. The depth, breadth and scope of her research is astounding — and her construction of a compelling narrative from well-documented fact is absolutely breathtaking.
Shock as an organizing principle is not just the semantic trope I originally took it for. As if to punctuate the release of this book, and to demonstrate its point, we were treated to video footage of six fat rent-a-cops tackling a Florida student, handcuffing and practically sitting on him before — and then Tasering him repeatedly, with a US Senator and upwards of a hundred fellow students passively watching on while he screamed out in pain. All for the thoughtcrime of reading a book and having the temerity to refer to it in public and raise the same issues. The book in his hand? Greg Palast’s Armed Madhouse.
Both Klein and Palast stick to what is documented, letting the neocons and neolibs hang themselves with their own words.
So…why read both books? They’re complementary.
I would recommend the skeptic read Armed Madhouse first. It offers detailed analysis focussed on a smaller number of issues. He leads the reader through detailed analysis of original document after original interview after original document, demonstrating absolutely monumental frauds committed by the current administration. Demonstrated is the self-dealing and profiteering of multinational corporations off the backs of the poor and disenfranchised — Black voter fraud victims in Florida in Ohio, Katrina victims New Orleans, debt victims in Latin America and war victims in Baghdad.
The remedy Palast offers is Information and Analysis. Better oversight, better auditing, better press coverage — a more vigilant and empowered civil service, if you will — can prevent these frauds in the future.
Klein’s book is more than a synthesis of primary research such as Palast’s. It is a narrative of a longer period of history, and employs the unifying theme — shock — to paint a rather more disturbing picture that goes beyond mere profit-seeking.
For companies to profiteer in times of war and disaster is nothing new. For power elites to utilize times of war and disaster as opportunities to expand their powers is nothing new. However, in Klein’s narrative, we see the same cast(e) of characters using the economic theory of the free markets, the economic reality of the IMF and the World Bank to bludgeon population after population, people after people, country after country, family after family, into submission. Time and time again, where people organize themselves into unions, democracies or cooperatives — these efforts are suppressed, with violence and even torture where deemed “necessary.” The causal connect between the grab for money and power by international elites on one hand, and the long-term brutal physical, psychological, social, political and economic harm done to the people on the other is conveniently whitewashed in the narratives presented by the Mainstream Media.
The remedy Klein offers is Knowledge and Wisdom. If we know what is happening, we can respond more wisely. It builds on Palast’s remedy of raw Information and Analysis.
Obviously, both remedies are necessary — without Information and Analysis, we have neither Knowledge nor Wisdom; and without the Wise use of Knowledge, the only effect of the Information and Analysis is to Shock us, and set us up for more Shock.
Ask Andrew Meyer. He had the Information. He followed the Analysis. And he was shocked, over and over. The first shock — I know, because I read the same book — were the scandals described in Armed Madhouse. The second shock was the realization that he could be arrested for political speech in America. His third shock was being physically tackled and cuffed by six fat rent-a-cops in his own college auditorium. And, as if all this was not enough, he was physically shocked, tasered over and over again in public, not as a warning to him (he’d already been arrested) but as a warning to everyone else in the room: torture by proxy. The mainstream media has compounded this further by ridiculing the man while sweeping under the carpet the “mysterious yellow book” and the questions it posed.
Little did they know an even more incendiary indictment of this very approach to dissent was being published even as they shocked Andrew Meyer with a Taser.
While the US MSM dodged reporting on the release of Klein’s book The Shock Doctrine that day–six fat rent-a-cops in Florida proceeded to prove her very point on every level. Disturbing but…priceless.
What we take away from this is the realization that we must be yes, as clever as foxes — but also as wise as wolves and as innocent as lambs. Which I first heard, paradoxically enough, at my University of Chicago convocation.