larry birnbaum @ 260

True, they’re not. This wasn’t Mitch’s claim however. And unless Wigwam really is a Native American, neither are his. As to how badly the Israelis behaved compared with, say, how badly we did, or how badly the Indians and Pakistanis did (and do), or how badly the Sudanese are behaving in Darfur right now, I think the record is clear.

Like most educated Americans, I acknowledge the atrocities upon which this nation was founded. For reasons I don’t understand a large percentage of American supporters of Israel are in a state of denial and still blame the victims.

The only thing I really blame the Palestinians for is holding onto their victimhood and revanchist fantasies — to the point where some of them end up blowing themselves and other people up randomly in cafes — rather than doing the things that would actually lead them to self-determination.

and that i should be admonished for it…….
which i rightly was……..

the rest of what i said, stands.

It is a book which should be discussed, but only after people have seriously read it. I have perhaps 150 pages to go, and need to go back and connect footnotes to text.

The authors have, one might say, stirred up a hornet’s nest, which was their intent afterall. They raise the fundamental question, using standard American Foreign Policy 101 methods, are the national interests of the United States and Israel the same, similar or identical — and they answer that in the negative. During the Cold War, they propose, US had stronger national interests parallel with those of Israel — but subsequently there has been a great shift, and the need now is to debate the question clearly within the National Interest framework. That’s precisely what the book does. If people could commit to staying on topic, and within the parameters of the book — it would be a healthy FDL effort, for one of their recommendations is fostering more open discourse, and in fact it is the only one in which they seem to have much faith.

Anyone else reading this book?

Ed*ard Teller @ 270

{{{{{rbg!!!}}}}}

It’s mutual, my friend. I will personally moderate the live blogging of any sporting event you and Mitch attend together.

it’s now monday morning, and i don’t know if any of you will see this… but i just want to say thanks to RBG, ET and Mitch…. for hanging in there and being willing to continue the conversation. much admiration and respect from this corner of the commentor pond.

——

09.23.07 — 8:44PM // link

The Gingrich Groundswell
From David Broder:

In the years since I first met him in 1974, I have learned that it’s wise to take Newt Gingrich seriously. He has many character flaws, and his language is often exaggerated and imprudent. But if there is any politician of the current generation who has earned the label “visionary,” it is probably the Georgia Republican and former speaker of the House.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/053963.php

Ed*ard Teller @ 270

{{{{{rbg!!!}}}}}

It’s mutual, my friend. I will personally moderate the live blogging of any sporting event you and Mitch attend together.

RBG, From a distance, I hope. *s*

wigwam @ 248

When population A chooses to build its national home where population B lives, they have only four options:
1) assimilate population B — not attempted in I/P.
2) anihilate population B, but genocide is a crime against humanity.
3) expel population B, but ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity.
4) subjugate poplulation B, but apartheid is a crime against humanity.
Or some combination of the above.

Isreal’s hands are not clean: http://www.truthdig.com/report….._to_peace/

True, they’re not. This wasn’t Mitch’s claim however. And unless Wigwam really is a Native American, neither are his. As to how badly the Israelis behaved compared with, say, how badly we did, or how badly the Indians and Pakistanis did (and do), or how badly the Sudanese are behaving in Darfur right now, I think the record is clear.

Like most educated Americans, I acknowledge the atrocities upon which this nation was founded. For reasons I don’t understand a large percentage of American supporters of Israel are in a state of denial and still blame the victims.

{{{{{rbg!!!}}}}}

It’s mutual, my friend. I will personally moderate the live blogging of any sporting event you and Mitch attend together.