Hard on the heels of the "Liberals are smarter" study, I ran across this NPR article stating that women are more literate (especially with fiction) than men:
Surveys consistently find that women read more books than men, especially fiction. Explanations abound, from the biological differences between the male and female brains, to the way that boys and girls are introduced to reading at a young age.
One thing is certain: Americans—of either gender—are reading fewer books today than in the past. A poll released last month by The Associated Press and Ipsos, a market-research firm, found that the typical American read only four books last year, and one in four adults read no books at all.
A National Endowment for the Arts report found that only 57 percent of Americans had read a book in 2002 a four percentage-point drop in a decade. Book sales have been flat in recent years and are expected to stay that way for the foreseeable future.
Among avid readers surveyed by the AP, the typical woman read nine books in a year, compared with only five for men. Women read more than men in all categories except for history and biography.
(I'm the weirdo in the group, as I preferred reference books as a child and still like using them to this day. But I digress.)
Some people find this all highly ironic:
By this measure, "chick-lit" would have to include Hemingway and nearly every other novel, observes Lakshmi Chaudhry in the magazine In These Times. "Unlike the gods of the literary establishment who remain predominately male—both as writers and critics—their humble readers are overwhelmingly female."
A-yup. This has been the case for decades. Just look at the fan fiction community: It's overwhelmingly female, and has been ever since the 1960s when Star Trek fanfics were being mimeographed and circulated among the hardcore fans. Even the Sherlock Holmes fandom, which has been the home of fan fiction (or "pastiche") writers for over a century, started out with a high percentage of women members.
And what's been the default response of the established (and male-dominated) publishing community? To treat them, even those fanfic authors whose works outshine the originals, with utter contempt. Note that in the older, more male-populated Sherlock Holmes fandom -- a fandom populated through the decades by prominent male editors and VIPs such as FDR -- "pastiche writing" is a respected and honored pastime, whereas the newer and female-dominated fandoms and their fan fictions are considered on a much lower level. (But I digress again.)
However, there is hope for us as a society that reads for pleasure, and it comes from a young boy who wears glasses:
There are exceptions to the fiction gap. More boys than girls have read The Harry Potter series, according to its U.S. publisher, Scholastic. What's more, Harry Potter made more of an impact on boys' reading habits. Sixty-one percent agreed with the statement "I didn't read books for fun before reading Harry Potter," compared with 41 percent of girls.
For publishers and booksellers, that offers a ray of hope—not only that the fiction gap might not be so insurmountable after all, but also that another, more worrisome gap might also be closing: the age gap. Young people, in general, read less than older people, and that does not bode well for books and the people who love them.
I'm not so sure that people have stopped reading fiction, or literature in general. To judge from the fan fictioneers, many of them are reading it online, not between the covers of a physical book. But there are those of us who still prefer the printed and bound sheaf of paper to the letters glowing on the screen.
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PW!
A new international agreement under the Montreal Protocol reached last night (with even the US is participating, and China coming on board as well) will achieve more in terms of slowing climate change than the Kyoto Protocol. In the most optimistic scenario, the effect of phasing out HCFC chemicals will achieve 2 to 5 times as much as Kyoto. China’s participation may be the biggest achievement of all.
Good morning … it is a cloudy gray day here in Phoenix…
Having a hard time getting my engine going today.
OT:
Harper’s magazine suggests a National Strike starting Nov. 6, 2007 to force impeachment!
Best idea I’ve heard in years.
About gender and reading: Look, we are out slaying three-toed sloths for dinner and defending the cave against saber-toothed tigers. Who has time for reading?
;-)
Are leftists more brilliant? I’m going outback to the pool to pose that question to someone smarter than I.
(part of this comment appeared in the late late night thread)
President Bush claims that he got a B in Economics 101 but he got an A in tax cutting. Hmm on what planet! Frackin Harvard just a rich kid’s diploma mill!
If the war costs 600 billion thats $600,000,000,000 that money has to be paid for. Debt as Milton Friedman said is just a tax defered to a later date.
The American population right now according to the web site said our population is at that time 302,938,097 people http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html
Divide 302,938,097 into $600,000,000,000 and you get the TAX Bush will have stuck every man women and child with the answer I got was $1,980.60
Now just for fun take 600 billion and divide it by 23,220 which is the price I found online for a high end Prius the answer I got was 25,839,793.18 which would be the number of Priuses we could have bought every American to save oil.
The less demand for oil the lower the price gets plus less money for Ossama from his Saudi oil buddies and the less money Iran has to buy nuclear technology.
please feel free to check my work I barely passed math.
Did everyone disappear?
It’s funny…I love watching fictional movies, but I don’t like reading fiction. When I read, it is for information to try to find out what is really going on in the world. I envy the ability to sit down and read a great fictional book that is so good, you don’t want it to end.
katymine @ 3
Virtual coffee to you! (Speaking of which — must go make some….)
EPU’ed from downstairs, but tangentially relevant here, in response to LS #210 about Reich land Surveillance noting what books people are carrying; MrsCO was so incensed she made a point of carrying the new Naomi Wolf on her trip to Boston this weekend. We are hoping she gets pulled for additional screening.
Good morning PW!
It makes me angry to have to consider what book I carry around an airport. Yay beacon of freedom.
things come undone @ 7
I failed math more times than I can count, but am smart enough to know the four gallons of gas I have used in the last 18 days is saving plenty. I like my bike.
FDL has cut down on my book reading. Time I used to spend on books is now spent here.
LS @ 9
And there’s the other argument to be made against fiction and for non-fiction: There are people, from the romance-novel addicts to the hardcore Trekkies (oops! Trekkers!) and Second Life habitues, who can get so wound up in the fictional worlds that their real-world life suffers.
OT
The Edwards’s knocked it off.
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/.....moveon.php
Do I see the fingerprints of one Jane Hamsher on this???
I’m not so sure that people have stopped reading fiction, or literature in general. To judge from the fan fictioneers, many of them are reading it online, not between the covers of a physical book. But there are those of us who still prefer the printed and bound sheaf of paper to the letters glowing on the screen.
How does this number correlate with the Bush 30%ers? Also how do we know the 30%ers didn’t lie like Bush did about all the books he supposedly read in his book reading contest with Karl Rove?
PeteCO @ 11
Ha! It would be great if everybody would carry the “same book” on their flights. Maybe everyone should carry a copy of the U.S. Constitution. That would leave them scratching their heads, when their computers start kicking that up all over the place!
PeteCO @ 11
Wow. I haven’t been to Christy’s thread yet (I’m a late riser on the weekends), so thanks for passing this on!
Off to the farmers market, but first a quick hug for katymine:
(((((((((((((((katymine)))))))))))))))))!!!!!!!!!!!
katymine @ 8
Not for me. Lahoma is out back.
Phoenix Woman @ 19
Here’s the link:
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/22/03315/2255
Wow. Not feeling well and need coffee, but glee that Nov 6 cannot come soon enough. This girl is off to read the article. But, on that topic, I hope some of you saw the Moyers’ piece on Rachel Carson: she could read and write, you know, but a part of the commentary was about the price she paid for what she wrote…but hey, that was long ago in the early ’60s.
Phoenix Woman @ 14
Wait…are you saying the fictional world *isn’t* real?
“And what’s been the default response of the established (and male-dominated) publishing community?”
What are you basing that on? MrsCO has worked in the book industry in many capacities for over 20 years. She is of the opinion that there are typically MORE women than men, and that is why equivalent jobs pay less in publishing than other industries.
As to the gender issue about which is smarter. Lahoma asks who is smarter? Obama or Hillary.
BTW… getting cuppa of the new coffee I bought at Ikea … Swedish coffee interestingly good
Cliff Varnell @ 16
Not the fingerprints, but a post. Jane doesn’t do passive-aggressive behind-the-scenes maneuvering; she says what she means and means what she says, and she’ll let you know right up front about it.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
Bill.
There would be no questions about the number of people reading if you visit your local library. This month is one big read in the state of California. In my county we are all reading Fahrenheit 451
I think they are both really smart, and both are very rich in a variety of life experiences.
FWIW, being online does cut down on the reading. Another issue that cuts down on the books read is that a lot of my favorite authors over the years are no longer around to write.
That being said, there are still a few authors that are “must reads” for me:
Lawrence Block
Jack Higgins
Anne McCaffrey
Dan Jenkins
to name just a few.
bhatten @ 31
Well then. Perhaps we will end up in ‘08 with Clinton/Obama.
The new book I am reading was recommended by someone…. Oh it was Jane…..”The Cure” as it was prophetically posted just the day after my doc called with the news of a tumor found on kidney
Thanking everyone for the hugs…. the facebook friends :) and will know more as the week goes by…
LS @ 18
That’s a great idea. I have a very nice 3×5 declaration of Independence and Constitution, produced by the Cato Institute.
PeteCO @ 11
Has Naomi Wolf been on FDL’s Book Salon?
I would rather read than eat or have sex! There are so many books I want to read and not enough time in one lifetime to read them. If you’re a non-reader and don’t feel like reading horror (Stephen King turned 60 yesterday) or murder mysteries (which seem to comprise the bulk of fiction these days) try “The Prince of Tides” by Pat Conroy, or “A Prayer for Owen Meany” by John Irving, or even “I Know This Much is True” by Wally Lamb - all riveting stories about everyday people - no monsters, no murders, no CSI. Then delve into “Lonesome Dove” and “Streets of Laredo” by Larry McMurtry (western), or “The Winds of War” and “War and Remembrance” by Herman Wouk (WWII), or “Watership Down” and “The Plague Dogs” by Richard Adams (rabbits and dogs, respectively) … that ought to get you started.
((((((katymine))))))
Prayers, love, and healing energy coming your way.
Harry Potter is the first fiction book Son in Ohio really got into. He was reading by the age of 3, but mostly nonfiction books about his passion du jour. One of the consequences of his Asperger’s Syndrome, we were told, was that he had difficulty “tracking” across a page of text. The Dorling Kindersley books were big favorites, because they were chock full of information, but also had plenty of pictures integrated throughout.
But he picked up Harry Potter and didn’t want to put it down until he was finished.
egregious @ 38
From here too!!
Phoenix Woman @ 28
That’s what I meant. I was referring to the post where she asked Mrs. Edwards to knock it off.
They knocked it off.
h/t to Jane, pardon the inartfullness of my praise.
wigwam @ 36
Not yet, but if you scroll up and look to the right, she will be on 10/14. She’s been doing a lot of media stuff to push the book, which is pretty high in the Amazon rankings, I hear.
Lahoma wants me to name five living, smart Republican woman.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
These days, you can’t be a Republican and be considered smart, so…none.
The book that has been my nighttime reading is “A Year in the World” by Frances Mayes which wrote “Under the Tuscan Sun” where she and her husband travel the world.
It has been wonderful to read her account of travel through Greece. Went to those chapters first and now started at the beginning. So before sleep I have toured Spain and Portugal, hearing about wonderful food and wine, art and antiquities.
Iain Banks.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
Giuliani’s divorcees. That’s five right? ;)
katymine @ 45
That sounds good!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
Can they be former Republican women?
Let me see if I have this sraight. The Bush boys (and girls) are going to try to blame Blackwater for the debauchery which Rove, Cheney, Hughes, Rumsfeld, Rice, among others set in motion?
AP - Iraq’s Interior Ministry has expanded its investigation into incidents involving Blackwater USA security guards amid the furor following a shooting that claimed at least 11 lives, a ministry spokesman said Saturday.
AP - Federal prosecutors are investigating whether employees of the private security firm Blackwater USA illegally smuggled into Iraq weapons that may have been sold on the black market and ended up in the hands of a U.S.-designated terrorist organization, officials said Friday.
Okay…I do like Hemingway, Falkner, and Michener….
Read the Harper’s article and weep. Yes, it is an indictment of us all. The strike should start today…see if anything can get Congressional attention.
PeteCO @ 25
Depends on which level. The very uppermost echelon, per the article cited, is still male-dominated. But yes, when you get down to the levels where the work is actually done, there are a lot more women (and the pay is as you mention).
Laura Bush is presented as being extremely popular. Why?
The art of reading always seems to create fascinating debate. Gender differences are real and young men seem to me much more visual, and more drawn to visual forms of entertainment, than young women which lends observational credence to what was writ above.
However, from more personal and prof. observations, it is important to note that young men in adolescence also learn to dislike reading. I believe this comes mostly from the stories or books they are forced to read in school. And while I am a strong proponent of multicultural educational strategies I find when we read Bram Stokers Dracula, Nye’s version of Beowulf, or Shakespeare’s Macbeth, or other books set with monstrous adventure that young men do read just as interestedly as young women. As far as the Potter world of JK Rowling, well I read the first three and the last one, and while they were imaginatively wonderful ( the Dementors!) there was too much soap opera stuff, really, for me, a man. (And what a terrible epilogue…set in a suburban future!)
But we are not supposed to teach high interest novels or drama: in the NCLB madness/incoherence the school setting has changed and materials are pre-chosen by testing companies and administrators. It is no great wonder that many adolescents, especially curious and eager males trying to figure out their own masculinity, look at reading as ‘boring’…because in many cases it is.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 50
Blackwater is Bush’s SA.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERsa.htm
LS @ 18
“…And friends they may thinks it’s a movement. And that’s what it is, the Alice’s Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement, and all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it comes around on the guitar…”
bhatten @ 52
This morning on Washington Journal, the financial guy Kudlow, was on. A young man from New Hampshire called in and said that he was educated in the tech field. He basically said that because of jobs leaving the country, his salary has dropped by 2/3rds and it is hard to make ends meet. Kudlow told him to “get off your duff, and get a job”….I was floored. A massive strike can accomplish much more right now than the marches, which never get covered. I still believe in marching, but I’m just saying…
OT
I just opened the door to see 13 teenager turkeys walking down the sidewalk and behind them one lone peacock. The peacock is confused.
Is HRC smart? And if so, what are the reasons for this conclusion?
I used to be a huge consumer of books; I’d read at least four a week (am a very fast reader) but then several things happened:
1) Books became much more expensive. Where I used to be happy paying $3 or $4 per paperback, when it jumped to $6+ I had to stop buying so many.
2) Choices became limited. It used to be you could find new authors at mass retailers like Target. Not so much anymore. If you want something other than Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Nora Roberts, or the like, you’re SOL.
3) I found fan fiction and discovered it met a need I didn’t even know I had. (I am speaking of a sub genre of fan fiction known as slash.) Now very little commercial fiction satisfies me because it doesn’t, to be perfectly vulgar, scratch that itch.
OTOH, I am still a paying consumer of non-fiction books. However, I only buy one or two a year. And I happily shell out my $8 for some authors, like Naomi Novik who has a new Tremaire book out next week. (And who, oddly enough, started out writing fan fiction.)
Can’t get an ‘amen’ to that? Whassup?
marymccurnin @ 59
How cute!! I wonder if the peacock egg got in with the turkey eggs…maybe it really thinks it is a turkey! They are going to be really jealous when the tail unfolds!
Cliff Varnell @ 56
“In this hour I was responsible for the fate of the German people, and thereby I become the supreme judge of the German people. I gave the order to shoot the ringleaders in this treason.”
That’s a little discomforting.
PeteCO @ 42
Thanks.
debit @61
there is a chain of used book stores called Half Price books, in Portland there is Powell’s Books and scattered across the country there are shops that are book resellers.
If you are ever in Portland Oregon, Powell’s is a must do, they also have a separate Technical books store which means I usually have to have a extra bag to carry the books home.
Phoenix Woman @ 57
We’ll all have fun sitting on the Group W bench, playing with the pencils…..
9 books a year for high interest readers?? That’s all?? Now I know what’s wrong with me…I can’t imagine not having 2 or 3 books, both fiction and non- going at once! I read a minimum of 9 books a month! How could it have escaped me that this is definitely on the weird side? I mean, ok, so I took the table and chairs out, lined the walls with book shelves and turned my dining room into a library. But still. What on earth is wrong that we aren’t teaching our kids to love reading? I mean readin’ IS the only actual “R” in the “three R’s” !
My wife and I read about the same amount, but she reads almost 100% fiction, all of it what I’d term literature. I think she’s read every short story in New Yorker in the past 25 years.
I read mostly history, but when I read fiction, I like pulp espionage or action conspiracy stuff like Dirk Pitt or the like. The closest I’ve gotten to literary fiction recently were the Sharpe books.
Good think wikipedia wasn’t around when you were a kid, eh, Phoenix Woman?
Ha, ha. Comments at Kos suggest everybody carry copies of My Pet Goat or an Ann Coulter book, while traveling.
How about carrying the Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich on the planes.
apple pie @ 55
“Soap-opera”? In what way?
You would have liked Books Four through Six; much more action, and lots of Angry Adolescent Angst (one of my male friends says the Angry Harry of Book Five was him at that age) leading to actions later regretted.
You should hear the hollering in Potterdom about The Crapilogue, as they call it. It was tacked on and obviously mostly written years ago, back before she’d really learned to write well. If there’d been more of a transitional period between the frankly horrific action of DH and the too-cute-for-words epilogue, it might not have jarred so much. But then again, the action-action-action-where’s-my-damned-Quidditch-scenes people wouldn’t have sat still for (eeek!) more exploration of people’s relationships. (And now I’m hearing in my mind Hermione’s complaint about Ron, that he has “the emotional range of a teaspoon”.)
I don’t know how to link, but if you google(news) the following it will come right up.
Jailed Governor Needs Another Day in Court: Margaret Carlson
The DOJ has refused to turn over the documents for the trial. No reason, no executive privilege, no national security! If anyone needs incentive, Rove is list as the possible man who took Don Siegelman down.
Debit@61-
Support your local independent; Book Sense
will point you in the right direction, and give you links to mail order if there is no-one local. Just don’t shop at Big & Nasty or Borders if you can help it. They are the Walmart of books and are so big they get to dictate the market. It’s very important that small publishers have outlets, to ensure creative diversity. They don’t necessarily get a fair shake at the majors.
PeteCo @64:
You bet. This too:
http://www.sdreader.com/php/cityshow.php?id=1566
The owner of Blackwater has this crazy idea that he and his peeps are the Elect whose souls will pass on to other lives, while common folks like us are Preterite, here today and gone tomorrow in a metaphysical sense.
They are a private Army whose owner has no qualms with killing and smuggling.
That’s also the Bush family business, after all.
US govt collects data on Americans overseas: Washington Post
10 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AFP) — The US government is compiling electronic files on the travel habits of millions of Americans who take trips overseas, The Washington Post reported Saturday.
Citing documents obtained by a civil liberties group and statements by unnamed government officials, the newspaper said the retained data included travel companions, persons with whom Americans plan to stay abroad, the personal items they carry during their journeys, and even the books that travelers have carried.
you need a separate booklist for overseas travel
LS @ 58
Ironic, since Kudlow probably hasn’t done a week’s worth of actual work — either intellectual or physical — his whole effing life.
Cliff Varnell @ 75
Yeah. More “faith based initiatives.” One thing I would adore to see out of all this is a return to separation of church and state. This is ridiculous.
As the bumpersticker says:
GOD, SAVE ME FROM YOUR FOLLOWERS
As an author, I can tell you this is largely because writers are being marketed by corporations as “content providers.” If sales aren’t up to par, that “product” is eliminated. Thus you end up with fewer and fewer authors, and bored readers look elsewhere for entertainment. When that entertainment is available free online, it becomes difficult for career writers to earn a living. A brilliant explanation of this trend can be found in the book, “The Long Tail,” which I suggest you PURCHASE ;).
ooohhh…Naomi Wolfe has a new book out? (lust, lust,lust)
LS @ 70
“My Pet Goat” is brilliant. I submit Al Franken’s “Lies and the Lying Liars who tell them”.
The publishing industry is on the brink of a major change…”print on demand” books and the internet can totally change the way business is done.
There would be no need to invest thousands of dollars in “publishing” an edition of a new book. Online (or local) merchants will print and bind it as ordered- no inventory- and less barriers to being published.
This is just one of the many lowering of entry level barriers that are occuring in business- not deliberately- but as a result of changes in technology and world markets.
A person who can afford to buy one container load of a product- can jump right into that business and compete head to head with the big boys who are also ordering containers of product from asia.
No plants- no patents- no massive warehouses- just a contact with a chinese manufacturer- a small storage center- and a website- and you are in business…
Interesting times coming.
“women are more literate (especially with fiction) than men:”
I knew that… it helps them create the ‘make-believe world’ that they live in.
“Mr. Siegelman, meanwhile, is in the federal prison in Oakdale, La. In a recent note to The Associated Press, he said his case would will eventually be seen as the “Watergate of 2008.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09.....elman.html
I’m a voracious reader, However I rarely read books. I love the political discussions on blogs and I love reading news, analysis and essays.
conniptionfit @ 80
Buy it now!
I’ve read it; it’s very good.
i was with you up to this sentence:
pardon my snobbery, but fanfic doesn’t say “literate” to me. it almost says the opposite.
technically, sure, people have to be able to read and write to copy someone else’s ideas and water them down in their own attempts at story-telling.
and, for a beginner, stealing and copying is a valid way of finding one’s own voice.
but two points raise their ugly heads in my mind when i read that.
firstly, fan fiction, to me, is rather like watching little kids play house (or store or police or whatever)…they are merely aping what they see grown ups do, but they aren’t really living it.
fan fic is a sophomoric attempt to write without any of the hard work of creating. it’s easy to take someone else’s world (and beleive me, as a writer, that’s the hard part…creating the world and the fully-realized characters…the plot is secondardy).
unless someone graduates beyond fan faction, i wouldn’t necessarily call them literate, except in the literal sense. yes, they can read. yes, they read books and enjoy them. but are they particularly imaginative? i would submit that stealing ideas says they are not.
want to tell me you’re literate? write your own story! the end!
sorry kids, not a fan of fan fic.
also, the reason the underground star trek fan fic was created and enjoyed pre-dominantly by women in the 60’s was that those stories were mostly homo-erotic tales of spock and kirk having sex, which turned the ladies on.
i do agree, tho, that liberals are smarter than conservatives, and i would not be surprised to learn that women are more literate than men, even if you discount fan fiction.
but i agree with apple pie @ 55, that a lot of that may be due to what boys are forced to read when developing reading skills.
PW- Have you heard the Potter books done on tape by Jim Dale? They are the most wonderful things imagiable! We got the first 2 when the kids were small for a long car trip- and we never once heard the dread words “Are we there YET?” Since then my kids have “outgrown” Potter, but I’M still listening to every installment since. Jim and Harry are my lullaby of choice on those nights when insomnia strikes!
rwcole @ 82
All of which is true, but you still need talent and content, which has to be discovered and developed. Self-published authors don’t tend to sell many books.
Sandman @ 73
HuffPost has it, right here.
To make a link in FDL:
1) Go to webpage to which you wish to link.
2) Copy URL for webpage.
3) Scoot on over to FDL.
4) In the FDL comments box, type in something like “Here’s this neat link about how Siegelman got railroaded”.
5) With your cursor, highlight the words you just typed that you want to make into a link (say, “Here’s this neat link”).
6) Click the “LINK” button at the top of the comment text box.
7) Paste the URL in the URL box that appears (you’ll probably have to remove the “http://” that’s already in there or else you’ll end up with two https at the front of the URL, which will keep it from working).
8) Hit the “Preview” button at the bottom of the comments text box, and make any needed changes.
9) Hit “Submit Comment”.
10) Marvel at the glory of the finished product:
Here’s this neat link on how Siegelman got railroaded.
Republicans, Democrats are wired differently
Everyone reading a newspaper account of the statements of the Bush administration is reading fiction.
Was that included?
albert fall @ 92
Good one!
“I’m the weirdo in the group, as I preferred reference books as a child and still like using them to this day. But I digress.)”
Nice to meet a fellow weirdo…
-MS
Balzar @ 83
Mmeeeeow! ;x)
albert fall @ 92
Touché!
OT - holy shit, the ghosts of christmas past, present and future visited San Diego Mayor Jerry Sanders. Woah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;search=