The 22 Democrats who betrayed their party and its supporters by voting to condemn MoveOn probably thought voting for a Republican stunt would shield them from further Republican smears. For the umpteenth time, they were wrong.
Their delusions were shattered again when President Bush used his bullying pulpit to smear the entire “Democrat” party, claiming most of them are “more afraid of irritating a left-wing group like Moveon.org . . . than they are of irritating the United States military.”
The hypocrisy evoked another Special Commentary from KO (h/t C&L). Dana Milbank confirmed that Bush’s answer was staged; at the end of his press conference, the President called upon an obliging Fox News Washington Examiner reporter, because no one else asked about the vote.
Had enough, Senators? You were set up, again. As Jane keeps explaining, never support Republican talking points or attacks on Democratic allies. Never. And just in case you’ve forgotten what’s important here, I left a few reminders.
The Republican stunt distracted attention from Bush’s disastrous Iraq policies: massive human displacement has accelerated, and cholera is now spreading south, an indication of further collapse in basic health, water and sewage services.
Republicans must also obscure their obstruction of every Senate effort — from the restoration of habeas corpus to the Webb Amendment — to force changes in Bush’s destructive polices. Republican obstruction will be repeated over and over in coming weeks on everything from childrens’ health care to major budget bills.
Earth to Democrats: Republicans will not let you accomplish anything worthwhile if they can stop it. There is no responsible party across the aisle who will work with you in good faith. They’re at war with you; stop accommodating them.
Meanwhile, Newsweek’s Michael Hirsh explains why the incident in which Blackwater mercenaries killed at least 8 Iraqis (who now believe it was unprovoked) was inevitable:
The moral vacuum of Iraq—where Blackwater USA guards can kill 10 or 20 Iraqis on a whim and never be prosecuted for it—did not happen by accident. It is yet another example of something the Bush administration could have prevented with the right measures but simply did not bother about as it rushed into invading and occupying another country. With America’s all-volunteer army under strain, the Pentagon and White House knew that regular military cannot be used for guarding civilians. As far back as 2003, . . . Rumsfeld convened a task force . . . to consider new laws that might be needed to govern the privatization of war. Nothing was done about its recommendations. Then, two days before he left Iraq for good, L. Paul Bremer III, the Coalition Provisional Authority administrator, signed a blanket order immunizing all Americans, because, as one of his former top aides told me, “we wanted to make sure our military, civilians and contractors were protected from Iraqi law.” (No one worried about protecting the Iraqis from us; after all, we still thought of ourselves as the “liberators,” even though by then the worst abuses at Abu Ghraib and other places were known.)
. . . [T]he unspoken rule of Bush’s counterinsurgency efforts over the past four years has been that almost all Iraqis, at least the males, are guilty until proven innocent. Arrests, beatings and sometimes killings at the hands of security firms and sometimes U.S. military units are arbitrary, often based on the flimsiest intelligence, and Iraqis have no recourse whatever to justice except in a few cases like Haditha. Imagine the sense of helpless rage that emerges from this sort of treatment. Apply three years of it and you have a furious, traumatized population. And a country out of control.
And now we have the awful absurdity of U.S. diplomats going out to make allies among Iraqis and build civil society—winning “the battlefield of the mind,” Marine Maj. Gen. Douglas Stone told The Washington Post—surrounded by security guards who operate in an amoral universe and are hated by Iraqis. The Blackwater phenomenon undermines the Petraeus surge, which applies counterinsurgency principles that require winning over the local population, and isolating the bad guys from them. Instead, Blackwater is seen by Iraqis as the face of a malignant occupation.
But don’t count on the Justice Department following up any criminal charges against Blackwater. It has never happened. The DoJ attorney who has been sitting on efforts to bring charges against contractors who commit crimes in Iraqi is Peter Keisler, now Bush’s current acting Attorney General. Just like the State Department’s see-no-evil Inspector General, Keisler is probably there to keep a lid on efforts to hold this regime legally accountable. Justice has been banished from this regime.
Update: Via Selise, Byron Dorgan will hold a hearing on the Iraq contractor issues, featuring whistleblowers and The Nation Magazine’s Jeremy Scahill. Begins about 10:30. Will let you know about coverage.
Update II. Blackwater is back on the streets for “limited” outings.
Photo: His favorite espresso cup, from josesh27566’s photostream
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zed
zed?
shucks. I never get zed. :(
Morning Scarecrow. Friendly caw from this direction.
The mercenary killings make all of us sick to our stomachs. New report in today’s NYT spells out the story. The Blackwaters are going to claim someone one shot at them first. They prevented an Iraqi from helping a dying woman and her child who were in the car they shot up.
It is just sick, sick, sick, to see people we hire serving as our SS. This is what extra-territoriality is all about.
Grouch Potato @ 3
You can have mine it was an accident :)
Scarecrow,
two wonderfully written posts
you’re competing with yourself
this post from downstairs is on point so will repost here
Ed Kunin @ 46
it sure would. would turn the vote against the add into an asset rather then a liability, and …and it would disabuse them from another vote along those same lines…very very nice…scarecrow should offer it to them
we need to field actual progressives and get these weaklings out of office, we need our representatives to do what we elected them to do
That reminds Scarecrow,
I think it was LS asking about Juan’s source. Yesterday I e-mailed him asking him what his source was for:
He just e-mailed me back with his source from the Independent.
Knut Wicksell @ 4
Morning Knut and Scarecrow. My big question is WHO ARE these guys? Former Navy Seals and Army Rangers? Guys shaken out on Sec. 8? Nut cases they recruit? Honestly – it drives me crazy that it certainly looks as if we have loosed all of our psychopathic killers and thrill-seekers on an undefended population. People in the Middle East are going to hate us for the next 100 years at least.
off to work, then getting ready for holiday
before I go I’d like to point out one of the leads over at think progress
c all L8tr
perris @ 10
have a good holiday!
for what it’s worth, I am writing my two senators to tell them how ashamed I am of them… I am ready to tear up my Democratic voter card, too…
All the democrats had to say is that MoveOn is an independent organization with more than 3 million members who have the right to say what they want. They are not a democratic supported organization even if they share common goals.
The dems are really dumb really really really and fall into these traps all the time.
But they are afraid of their own shadows it seems.
I wonder what they would do if and when they have a veto proof majority? probably nothing to write home about.
Last night Colbert said that the reason Blackwater has such a hard time in Iraq is because of its’ name. It is too dark and scary. They should change it to something that Iraqi’s could appreciate.
Like “Drinking Water”
I stated downstairs.
The USA has:
Armed roving militias (in Iraq) called Blackwater, Caci, Triple Canopy
War Loads such as Eric Prince.
We are doing what we condemn.
WOW… any mirrors around?
Bush is a goddamn moral and literal criminal. Until the democrats go after him and hold him and cheney accountable, nothing good can get started; no American recovery can begin. And if they let him slip way in January 2009 without being held accountable the American recovery will forever be tainted and never achieve its promise.
.
How did the vote against MoveOn got on the floor of the Senate in the first place, did Harry Reid allowed it?
The Dems need to try sending MoveOn some honey not vinegar.
SanderO @ 15
Yep – we “outsourced” the war to a bunch of murderous psychopathic thugs who I think believe they are involved in an Arnold Schwartzenegger film. These guys are complete – they called in an armed helicopter gunship during this latest attack. They have their own private airforce. These are not just “armed guards” — these are mercenaries who will kill for anyone who will pay them. We’ve become the Third World dictatorships we have always despised.
i called senator kerry’s office yesterday to ask why he had voted for the boxer amendment condemning moveon…. and was read a statement from kerry’s office explaining how he doesn’t think anyone who’s served in the military should be condemned [even for lying to american people - doesn’t matter if it’s true or not].
Two fantastic posts Scarecrow. Thank you.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Bush gets his with Dan Rather’s lawsuit.
Toby Wollin @ 9
What amazes me is that this incident has created a very serious crisis for the US in Baghdad, a situation that could undermine the entire Petraeus strategy, but the media/Congress focus is on MoveOn, as though none of the real-world stuff matters. The State Dept folks are probably in minor panic mode, but pretending everything’s okay.
That bar graph showing the monthly displacement starkly illustrates the story.
And cholera is in Baghdad!
they have no water, no clean water, chlorine shipments are held up, prevented.
WE are responsible for this total disaster.
One day, I hope we see a new movie called “Blackwater Down”
ccmask @ 21
now there would be a sweet irony
ok, i’m confused.
i understand calling out the 22 D senators who voted to condemn moveon via the cornyn amendment.
i don’t understand why we give a pass to the other 25 who voted to condemn moveon via the boxer amendment.
Scarecrow @ 22
And as Hirsh points out blackwater is the State Dept folks baby:
Scarecrow @ 22
Except – it’s NOT. It sure looks as if the US military has no purview over these “death squads” whatsoever – which means that it should not be too far in the future that in some crazy firefight, a squad of US soldiers get killed by these thugs and the whole thing will get covered up.(Pat Tillman, anyone?)
the CIA can’t function without Blackwater!?
We need to disband Bush’s private army
They are still playing the middle. They could care less about places like this. Most people here represent an automatic vote no matter what they do… You know, practitioners of the lesser of two evils method.
I’m not convinced that a veto proof majority would make any difference. Seems to me that the leadership is more or less going along for the ride, they constantly tell us “this is the final straw” but they never can seem to eke out enough votes
msgop is running the story on moveon
over and over and over starting with the president’s press conference
todd democrats do not have profiles in courage
and what are the republicsn profiles of uriah heel
there’s a whistle blower hearing this morning on blackwater (dorgan’s DPC committee, at 10:30am). jeremey scahill is testifying, but i don’t know the names of the whistle blowers yet.
i called c-span yesterday to request that they cover it (they were considering it).. but when i called back this morning i was told they wouldn’t have a camera for it. :(
the DPC website might have live webcast (i was told yesterday that they were madly trying to get one up for today’s hearing)… but if they don’t have it live, they will post it to their video archive.
You’re on fire this morning Scarecrow!
Right. And there’s a whole lot of justice & accountability being applied in the Haditha case, as person after person comes up on charges and is acquitted or lightly rapped on the knuckles for their contribution to the event or the subsequent cover-up.
Absolutely sickened that the Senate Dems ever even entertained the MoveOn slap-down, let alone vote for it. I’m deeply ashamed of my Senators (Mikulski and Cardin).
selise @ 32
thank you selise! looking forward to this one.
Dear Senator Reid,
Yesterday a shared my outrage out the continuing lack of process and management of a Democtratic Party message as capped off by the absurd MoveOn respolution.
Did you notice how the President played it? Think that wasn’t coordinated? Hmmm?
By the way, just how many more times are you guys going to get dissed by these jerks – notice his reference to the Democrat party – AGAIN? What’s that about Senator Reid? Just a lil’ol’cowpoke slang? Or how about an in-your-face ongoing all-the-time INSULT to you and your colleagues. Which is it? Let’s vote shall we and see. Oh wait…
Anyway, I’ll follow up with Senator Webb who just might have the ability to explain this shameful vote.
It’s tragic that the MoveOn ad generates more passion among Senators than the Blackwater story. Somewhere, Rove is smiling.
Morning all. I had been wondering about the origins of the BW ops in Iraq. Thanks for reading my mind, Scarecrow.
I did the only thing I could think of to make me feel better today. I sent money to Moveon and to Chris Dodd. Maybe that’s the only thing the politicians will understand.
Even with all the talk about how hurt Move-on is, they don’t seem too shamed. The ad will be in the minds of all and no one will think Petraeus without thinking of Betray-us.
Middle of the road non-offensive comments don’t get change started.
Has MoveOn said anything about all this publicity bringing in more money? Last night a bunch of us were saying we had given because of the Dem’s idiocy.
P.S. Mod – could you fix the spelling @39 for Scarecrow? thx
selise @ 32
Thanks, Selise. I’ll put an update in the post.
Badwater @ 38
it’s a bipartisan problem.
ask president clinton about his use of mercenaries. blackwater got their first contract, and became an official vendor to the u.s. government during in the clinton administration.
CC- it was 65 here when I got up. I’ve got a bunch of sheaths that should start filling with buds soon!
selise @ 26
I don’t understand what Boxer’s amendment is about. What I’ve read about it sounds silly.
Gnome de Plume @ 42
Here is what Move-on had to say last night in the conference call.
selise @ 44
Have we ended up with Blackwater and their ilk being the “default” because no one wants to touch the “tarbaby” of a military draft?
fascinating interview with Dan Rather just completed on JoeScar.
Rather says his primary motivation has to do with exposing the too-cozy relationships between BigNews and BigGovernment. Talks about Sumner Redstone being “enraged” that the network ran with the GWB National Guard story at a point at which Redstone was working D.C. for some things favorable to his business. Could be *very* interesting.
Rather also noted that nothing in his original story has ever been proven to be false – merely un-verifiable.
sorry for the OT.
This move on deal makes me wonder. Why does the press continue to paticipate in “propaganda conferences” instead of news conferences.A real news conference would have a system to randomly pick, by the press itself,questioner’s to avoid the obvious set up between the foxes on the move-on question
NPR reports this morning that the Pentagon will be asking for another 200 billion to fund the war/occupation through the end of this year. Democrats MUST require that it be paid for responsibly. No more credit card for the idiot in chief. If it means 80% marginal tax rates for the highest incomes, so be it. If it means increasing the estate tax, so be it. If it means increasing the corporate income tax rate, so be it. They wanted this mess let them pay for it. Our national debt will soon pass $9 trillion. It was under $5 trillion when idiot took office. So much for the R’s being “the party of fiscal responsibility.” Why should our kids and grandkids be stuck with this?
Toby Wollin @ 48
That and the out-of-control defense industry needs highly trained committed people to operate the fine products they keep turning out. The rambo types who want more freedom and more pay to play soldier love BW.
wigwam @ 46
moveon ad = swiftboating of kerry = max cleland ads, so condemn them all.
the amendment text hasn’t been posted yet, so i’m going by what i heard from the senate floor (on c-span2 yesterday), where boxer and others explicitly compared the moveon ad to the swiftboating of kerry to what happened to max cleland… and there’s also the posted amendment purpose:
selise @ 32
dayam, I so wanna see that…
snowbird42 @ 47
MMM, am I missing something? Was there supposed to be a link?
the single most important thing is to get rid of the goopers
we are just going to have to suck it up and hang together ..internal fighting is what the goopers want (and a few asshole dems like carville-matalin and his ilk)
Toby Wollin @ 48
maybe now… but i think originally there were 2 motivations:
1) neolib ideology is to privatize it all
2) the lack of accountabilty is a good thing if you want to do things that would not be approved of if made public.
wigwam @ 46
Boxed tried to defuse support for the Repub’s attack on MoveOn with a broader resolution condemning all attacks on military — including Kerry, Max Cleland, etc. The idea was to give cover to all Dems, and force the Repubs to either condemn the swift boat stuff along with MoveOn, or vote to shield their own — a much better story than what we’re hearing today. The resolution got all 49 Dems, plus Bernie Saunders (not Lieberman), and lost, 50 – 47, with 3 not voting. That might have softened the direct blow to MoveOn, by spreading the blame, but it failed, while the 22 Dems voted for the exclusive hit on MoveOn — and us and themselves.
I understand you have to do this political cover stuff from time to time, but one hopes our own guys are smart enough to know which, if any, to vote for and when to call BS. We aren’t there.
Toby Wollin @ 55
Sorry
http://rawstory.com//news/2007….._0920.html
katherine Graham Cracker @ 56
Agreed. Get rid of Goopers first, then go for vulnerable dinos. Don’t waste resources on dems who have a lock on seat.
Why does Carville still send me e-mails? It is not 1992 or 1994 anymore. Get a grip DC. His wife, Bloody Mary, has destroyed his career quite nicely. I delete his messages without reading. I should put a block on them.
Snowbird @47, where? Link, please?
Wes Clark was on joe this morning and appeared to backpeddle *somewhat* in his criticism of MoveOn by responding with something similar to what Scarecrow said:
The Republican stunt distracted attention from Bush’s disastrous Iraq policies:
Did anyone else catch that and have the same reaction? I did not see a transcript of Clark’s initial comments so have no real basis of comparison.
Waccamaw @ 62
.
Clark is up on Washington Journal
I just read the Raw Story story. It didn’t say anything about the money they are getting as a response. I am hoping that it is a similar situation to when the Rethugs took over Congress in 1994. Organizations like Planned Parenthood and Emily’s List had record-breaking fundraising years because of attacks on them.
Great quote from Krugman re Petraeus:
The problem is that it’s not only the pundits; it’s also the senators, including half of the democrats.
Perhaps MoveOn should run another ad:
Scarecrow @ 58
that’s not correct, the boxer amemdment did NOT get all 49 dems – feingold voted no! …and i’d like to see him get credit for that principled vote.
the 50 votes were 47 Ds, sanders and 2 Rs (hagel and specter).
and personally, i found the boxer amendment to be even worse than the cornyn amendment. not only was moveon condemned – but their ad was explictly (at least by boxer) equated with the swiftboating of kerry.
and based on kerry’s official reason for voting for the boxer amendment (as read to me by a staffer), it was quite clear he wanted to condemn the moveon ad – he just wanted the swiftboating to be condemned too.
SanderO @ 13
And then for good measure, they could have brought up one or two examples of worse sliming of democrats and others that the GOP does all the time, and demand that their members denounce that activity, before they come at democrats to denounce Move On.
The cowardice and stupidity of these dems is astounding.
Why does Carville still send me e-mails? It is not 1992 or 1994 anymore. Get a grip DC. His wife, Bloody Mary, has destroyed his career quite nicely. I delete his messages without reading. I should put a block on them.
Anyone seen this movie Our Brand is Crisis?
It almost looks like Iraq is somewhat of a training ground for the Blackwater mercenaries, until they are called-up to fight here in the event of martial law. Would it be so easy for them to turn on us as they have the citizens of Iraq? Will they be “programed” by then? I think I’m going to go back to bed.
Alecia @ 17
And in the wake of this, Reid allows the right to get away with filibustering the Webb amendment.
Both posts are brilliant Scarecrow. Thanks.
I just got of the phone with my Senators office in DC (Bill Nelson). The reason given for his vote:
Mr. Nelson didn’t think it was proper for the Generals service and patriotism to be “attacked”. They even called it a “personal attack”.
I asked what part of free speech and informed dissent did Mr. Nelson find so horrible it needed to be condemned on the floor of the United States Senate? “It was a personal attack on a great man” was the response. What is wrong with asking the question in print? Did he betray us? Did he betray his troops? Did he betray his country to prop up a failing commander in chief? If these questions are researched by the public, how could this be bad? What is wrong with trying to get the public to look into the history of this man and the things he has said?
The answers to all the questions from the aide were in agreement with my points, but that this was an attack ad. WTF?
I informed him that all my donations that would have gone to Mr. Nelson would now be given to Move-on for all the fine patriotic work they do.
My final point was that the General had taken an oath to defend the Constitution, not the President. If he has broken that oath, it is indeed a betrayal.
Thanks, Elliott -
Just flipped channels……has he been asked about the ad yet?
Waccamaw @ 62
That would be a helpful interview. Clark wasn’t channeling me, though; he gave a lengthy and thoughtful interview to Matt Stoller, and got some “feedback” from that. His basic point was it wasn’t productive to attack the military personally; fact check/credibility okay, but the target should be the civilians setting the policy, but not character of the men who have to say “yes, sir.” And don’t question loyalty.
clark @ 70
I wish he would MAKE them actually filibuster
selise @ 32
Boy, selise, you are GOOD!!
Many, many thanks.
Bush:
This is really blood-curdling. The elected representatives of the people SHOULD be more afraid of their constituents than they are of the professional military. Don’t irritate the military because they have the guns?!? That this kind of constitutional inversion drops so easily from B’s lips shows that he has absolutely no understanding of democracy.
Waccamaw @ 73
not that I heard
zennurse @ 76
A saint. Every day.
The whole thing was over the use of the word:
BETRAYAL
it sounds like it’s treason or something. It kicked off an irrational emotional response.
The point of the ad was spot on.
“The cowardice and stupidity of these dems is astounding.
I used to think that too. I am no longer astounded. The intersection of the set of competent Dems with the set of principled Dems might number fewer than a half-dozen.
zennurse @ 76 -
thank jayt – he heard about the blackwater whistle blower hearing during yesterday’s washington journal (jeremy scahill was being interviewed). i just tracked it down.
Scarecrow @ 79
LOL. except when i’m being an asshole pain in the neck.
thanks scarecrow.
Via e-mail, I learn that the Senate will be voting on the Reed/Levin amendment about 10:00 a.m. Eastern — not sure about CSPAN coverage.
Elliott @ 75
I keep emailing him about it. I hope he has a pile of comments about that.
Grrrrrrr…
Thank you scarecrow. You are a treasure.
(go ahead. it’s o.k. to blush. it’s actually rather becoming. ;->)
Scarecrow, among many other things, I greatly appreciate your careful phrasing. It reminds me to mention something troubling I noticed in yesterday’s comments here – not from everyone, but a significant number of folks.
With the repubbles doing everything they can to trash the “Democrat” party, imo we do not need broad indiscriminate attacks from within. Everyone has been upset, many of us emotional in our comments, but please, folks. Those of you who lumped all politicians, including all members of the Democratic Party together and attacked them in your comments. Please step back, do a little research, and direct your criticism toward those who actually deserve it.
Many, MOST of the Democrats in the Senate voted FOR Habeas Corpus restoration, FOR the Webb Amendment, and AGAINST the condemning of MoveOn.
To those 22
QuislingsDemocrats who voted for Senator Cornyn’s assualt on the 1st Amendment, you’re receiving a warm welcome and applause in the world of Fascism you’re helping to create.Since you are doing all the heavy lifting, Der Decider and his
StormtroopersRepugs want to know if you’d mind getting rid of the rest of those pesky Amendments to the Constitution.Thanks for the “comity”. Hugs and smooches all, from John “Mein Führer” Cornyn.
Scarecrow, thank you for all of your work.
Although I am beginning to believe that the Move On ad has been more divisive than productive. Here we are two weeks later focused on the ad. All the while the Iraqi refugee issue is being ignored, yesterday David Gregory asked the President tough questions about Israel’s attack on Syria and
that passed by, today there is a UN meeting on Iranian sanctions, Israel is acquiring more land via the expansion of settlements and the wall etc etc.
I smell a Turdblossom.
I guess on the other hand the lines have been drawn in the Democratic party.
A bit late to the party this morning — Scarecrow, you’re on fire today. Thank you! Your ‘reminder’ list is spot on. Maybe ‘betrayal’ is a soft spot with the Senators, too. I certainly feel betrayed by this vote.
Purge the Party!
if nothing else this proves conclusively how in the tank the media is with Shrubco
and how about that hate monger Peter King
in the statement the Ghoul released defending King’s hate speech -the ghoul said he had done studies on hate in America’s mosques
shouldn’t he be sharing that with the FBI
Scarecrow @ 79
she’s the Hearing Herald Angel
selise @ 83
But, perhaps, the APITN is part of the job description?
EMPY @ 72
You go!
Bernie Kerik on MSNBC right now denouncing Iranian leader visiting 9-11 site – at the same time, MSNBC pops up a box showing that “Iran was one of the first nations to condemn the 9-11 attacks”.
Fuckin’ with Bernie – it’s good for what ails ya.
Regretfully signed,
jayt (Mr. OT)
Kathleen at 88 –
Move On isn’t yammering on about their ad 24/7. I put the blame squarely on our corporate media working in lock step with the Republican stage show.
Adie–
Many, MOST of the Democrats in the Senate voted FOR Habeas Corpus restoration, FOR the Webb Amendment, and AGAINST the condemning of MoveOn.
yes — important reminder. Credit where credit is due.
The way I see it, we have 50 votes to do the right thing when it’s easy, and about 30 votes to do the right thing when it’s hard and takes lots of wisdom and courage. That’s about 5 votes better than 2006. We have to increase both numbers in 2008 — and continue to create the conditions where the Senators in between think doing the right thing is easy.
jayt @ 95
Bernie Kerik? Someone called up Bernie Kerik for HIS opinion? A hotdog vendor on the STREET could give a better and more intelligent response. Holy Ned – that guy was supposedly sharing Guliani’s “love nest” at the Emergency Center in the WTC for heaven’s sake. Sheesh.
This morning I heard Senator Sherrod Brown (OH) say that congress had harmed US soldiers by not passing the Webb amendment.
Looking for his exact words which were stronger than this.
The Republicans with the media are the ones keeping this story alive
oj is over for the time being
so in order to distract this is the story
it was a set up and so …
the best thing is to hound local media for coverage of other things
and remind fathead russert that if this is the story he better have on someone other than mary divorced catholic matalin and her pussywhipped husband to discuss it
musicsleuth @ 96
I agree! But did the left fall into the trap?
Gnome de Plume @ 45
I have two which will bloom this weekend! I can’t wait. First time bloomers.
Adie @ 86
this me being a pain in the neck – again…
most of the dems voted FOR condemning moveon. maybe i wouldn’t be so much of a pain about this, but feingold didn’t.
and just like the patriot act, he was the only one. i’d like to see him get his just credit for another principled vote… and he actually stood up for the grassroots. good for him.
selise @ 44
Yes, Blackwater got their start becoming officially GSA listed in February of 2000 under Clinton, but at that time they were a training facility and did not provide mercenary services. That would happen under Bush. In fact, Blackwater was created as direct result of the theocrats fear of the Clinton administration.
An idiot could have won the “debate” for the dems over the Move On resolution.
When they say, going after military officers in war time is off limits, then bring up Wes Clark, Kerry and McClellan.
When they say Move On’s ad was “rude,” bring up Delay, Limbaugh and Boehner, and ask who amongst those calling for the condemnation of Move ON condemned some of the many worse remarks made by these right wing miscreants.
When they say Move On had no right to put out the ad, bring up the fact that it is an independent organization of 3 million VOTERS who have a right to speak up. The democrats have a host of right wing bad actors, such as Malkin, to choose from to underscore that point, as the right never denounces anything that kook says or does.
Lastly, bring up the most ignoed fact about the ad, that on the merits, Move On’s message was correct, and challenge the right to debate the ad on its merits. Besides, it was Bush who put Petraeus in play as a politician, while using his uniform to shield him from criticism as such.
The republicans were going to vote for this anyway, as this was another “Schiavo” moment for them. So why let them off the hook? Blast the hell out of them and let the public know that this was purely a political ploy that does worse than Move on but never says a peep about it.
That the dems are scared to do this really makes me concerned for ‘08. They are quickly squandering what’s left of the public perception of them as leaders.
New Christy upstairs.
Kathleen @ 88
The whole episode may have been a distraction in the news, but remember, the WH/Petraeus Dog and Phony show got tons of media coverage — a full court propaganda press — and the basic numbers in the country didn’t move. What happened is the WH whipped the Republicans back in line, increasing their chances of going down next year.
As for the realities in Iraq — things are worse, but not one thing worsened as a result of this distraction in Washington D.C. Things are worse, and within days, the media will be picking up on that, because the distraction will MoveOn — and the WH has already played its Petraeus card.
New thread from Christy Hardin Smith:
Stranded
“that’s not correct, the boxer amemdment did NOT get all 49 dems – feingold voted no! …and i’d like to see him get credit for that principled vote.” selise
I wrote him this morning.
Also, not sure if anyone mentioned this from yesterday, but via DKos, Mike Stark: “I’ve spoken with the netroots leaders Matt Stoller and Chris Bowers. They support this idea.
We are forming a donors’ union and going on strike.
If I can raise the money, we will build a site that allows people to donate $10 to any non-elected progressive candidate or progressive organization that has an account at ActBlue. I am confident that we will be able to recruit 10,000 $10 donors (some will contribute more). repeating: each donor will promise to give NotOneRedCent to elected Democrats or organizations that give money to elected democrats. Instead, they will promise to use their money to contribute to progressive organizations and candidates that, as proved by their record, support the furtherance of progressive ideals.”
http://www.actblue.com/page/notoneredcent
Kathleen @ 101
Curiously, yes. This should never have been left for a vote. Not quite Terri Schiavo, but close.
On NPR this morning they did an interview with France’s new foreign minister Bernard Koucher he clarified his statements about Iran. Listen for yourself. He does not support a war with Iran
· France’s new foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, is a somewhat unlikely diplomat. He began his career as a physician and activist. He’s a co-founder of the group Doctors Without Borders and was fond of dramatic actions — like chartering a cargo ship to rescue Vietnamese boat people. It didn’t hurt his reputation as a maverick four years ago when he championed intervention in Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein. This week, the foreign minister has gotten in trouble for some undiplomatic language — saying the world must prepare for possible war when it comes to Iran because of its refusal to suspend nuclear activities. But Kouchner says he was misunderstood. In advance of a meeting in Washington with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, he placed France firmly on the side of the U.S. in calling for even tougher sanctions against Iran. Kouchner speaks with Renee Montagne.
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..d=14586556
zennurse @ 109
You’re right about Feingold; my mistake; to his credit.
ugh. this move on resolution galled me. wtf are they doing in the senate anyway?
interesting to juxtapose that with Bush’s statements yesterday about “fair justice” in Jena. another indication that Bush knows absolutely nothing about the law. would love to see some of you bright lawyers on this board deconstruct that statement.
Badwater @ 38
Generated more passion on the Republican side.
Two weeks about the add
EMPY @ 104
i thought the clinton administration had used them (covertly) in the former yugoslavia. do i have that wrong?
if it wasn’t this ad it would have been something else
shrub is getting his ass kicked
and they need to distract
katherine Graham Cracker @ 116
you know, the more i think about this (the R response to the moveon ad), the more i think that they aren’t trying to distract – they are trying to intimidate.
fighting back means they aren’t intimidating us (even if they were successful in intimidating most of the Ds in the senate).
I demonstrated my outrage against MoveOn by going to their site last night and placing a contribution on my credit card. I’ll bet that will teach those bastards a lesson!
EMPY @ 72
I’m going to make a not-too-wild guess that a number of these Senators who were angry about the Move-On ad did not actually read it. Perhaps they were snookered into doing what a lot of people do when told something is pornographic. They figured they didn’t need to deal directly with any of the troubling issues it raised. They made the mistake of trusting those who said it was totally outrageous and worth condemnation. You’d think they’d learn!
Special shame on those who voted to condemn the ad without even looking at it in detail, and instead trusted crafty, devious attackers. How about calling back to Nelson’s office and asking about that? Was his aa truly informed vote. If not, why did he take the word of known
liarsscoundrelsOh heck! Mebbe scarecrow knows a suitable word you could use. dang bubblikans won’t do, i fear. *g*
katherine Graham Cracker @ 116
I agree, they would have found something else to distract from the facts.
Gang of 14.
How did that compromise among buddies work out?
Burn me once, burn me….can’t get burned again.
Scarecrow and Christy,
It would be interesting to see what would happen today if FDL and their blog friends went full steam into detail and postings on Blackwater. This kind of coordinating could carry quite a punch on the Hill. It is needed and we need to focus on this serious issue with great depth and relentless coverage.
“Republicans must also obscure their obstruction of every Senate effort — from the restoration of habeas corpus to the Webb Amendment — to force changes in Bush’s destructive polices.”
And here’s Hillary Clinton with Ed Schulz yesterday: “Well, Ed, as you know it takes sixty votes to get anything done around here and we just don’t have the votes.”
As I recall, the Republicans in the last Congress got lots of things done with just 55 votes. How times have changed. I guess majorities just don’t count anymore.
Thank you Scarecrow for this important post. I am just way beyond despair. What have we wrought?
selise @ 103
I stand corrected if i’m wrong about the MoveOn ad vote, sorry. But I believe I’m correct about the other 2 votes. Either way, people need to be precise when charging out to hammer politicians.
Yes Feingold is a treasure, and a brave one, and suffers from being mixed up with Feinstein all the time! Aaaarrrggghhhh!
Even more mysterious, Sherrod Brown (OH), who probably votes the same as Feingold on virtually everything, nevertheless is often criticised by people who “assume” how he voted and guess wrong. grrr.
selise @ 32
good news!
there is a live stream for the webcast of this hearing – starting in 3 minutes.
Adie @ 125
i agree with you about trying to be precise. but honestly, i suck a lot of the time… that’s why it’s really helpful to be able to throw things out here, get them hashed out, and then together we figure things out.
most of the D senators voted against condemning moveon via the cornyn amendment but voted for condemning moveon via the boxer amendment – it’s a bit confusing.
sherrod brown voted for the horrible MCA (kangaroo courts, torture, indefinate detention, no habeas corpus). he’s good in many ways, but he’s no feingold, imo.
I think the Dems are doing this on purpose. Why? Because if too many (any?) Republicans come out against the war, they might get votes in the 2008 election.
How many more service people will be butchered between now and Election Day 2008? Thousands. But it is a small price to pay for getting the Dems more seats.
Do I believe this? Of course. (And remember — Nancy Pelosi said, about a year ago, that impeachment is “off the table.” Ask yourself why ANYONE — much less a House leader, would say this. Hey Nancy — if Bush were caught shooting YOU dead, would impeachment still be off the table?)
It is right along with BONER’S small price comment.
Betrayous won’t be an issue in the elections because he will have been fired before then
He is supposed to come back in March… Shrub cannot allow that
The GOoPers are like kids playing on the train tracks. They dare the train to run over them, and when it stops they get cake and ice cream to make them feel better – really, to make the adults feel better about almost hurting them. The GOoPers enjoy the attention and the goodies they get, and as a result, they keep doing it. The Dems need to stop rewarding them for their bad actions.
Drive the f*cking train over them next time!
Do you really believe the 20 Dem’s voting for censure did so without Dem “leadership” (oxymoron or just moron) approval?
Not that voters can do anything, but it’s time to realize the Republic is lost, Congress is one party with differing views, though their main purpose is power and money. Big money won!
Isn’t widespread cholera one of the benchmarks for the surge ?
I am a little concerned about Bush’s statement that Congress should be worried about pissing off the military. While I believe we have made a good start down the road that could put the military in charge, I didn’t think it was something that the Administration would want to emphasize. So does that mean Bush makes his decisions with the thought that he doesn’t want to make the military mad? They work for the American people, who cares if they get mad or insulted….they are supposedly willing to die to protect OUR right to free speech.
And now Rudy Giuliani wants to make it illegal to criticize the military. Remind me again why we’re fighting them over there? So that we can have fewer 1st amendment rights in this country?
Who could have believed it could happen, but it really is true, Rudy Giuliani is worse than Bush!
Rudy Giuliani is an asshat!