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	<title>Comments on: Difficulties Ahead&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-986854</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-986854</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-985415&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;BigMitch @ 125&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
…&lt;br /&gt;
In the spirit of the day, I ask forgiveness from any lake dwellers whom I may have offended, …
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I forgive you for deeply deeply offending me. BTW, what was it you said again(?) and who are you? Oh, forget it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Gravi tas and all that jazzola.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-985415"><em>BigMitch @ 125</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>
…<br />
In the spirit of the day, I ask forgiveness from any lake dwellers whom I may have offended, …
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I forgive you for deeply deeply offending me. BTW, what was it you said again(?) and who are you? Oh, forget it.</p>
<p>Gravi tas and all that jazzola.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-986032</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-986032</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-985540&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Adie @ 198&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;kathleen 189&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;HEY Grrrl!  Sometimes I forget I have company, and I go all pouty.  I’m gonna stop that.  I am!  Right this minute! *g*&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Adie you are not alone&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-985540"><em>Adie @ 198</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>kathleen 189</p>
<p>HEY Grrrl!  Sometimes I forget I have company, and I go all pouty.  I’m gonna stop that.  I am!  Right this minute! *g*</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Adie you are not alone</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Osteen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985738</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Osteen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985738</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-985330&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Lupe @ 46&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;There was a good study on drug enforcement in Seattle by the Kennedy school a few years ago.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.defender.org/projects/rdp/jfkschool.pdf&quot;&gt;http://www.defender.org/projects/rdp/jfkschool.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It showed that, at least in Seattle, the arrests and prosecution of African Americans for drug violations is not only out of proportion to the population, but also out of proportion to the population of violators.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, at least in this instance, it’s not right to argue that the African American arrest rate is higher because African Americans violate the drug laws more often. It’s hard to find data illustrating that point, because data is hard to come by.  Police departments don’t want to cough it up, and judges are hesitant to order broad discovery for disparate treatment claims.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Layer on top of that the fact that certain people just want to find and believe a race-neutral excuse these disparities, and these issues are tough to ferret out and address honestly.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But this is a very interesting study, I think that is a start at debunking some of our lazy excuses.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The ACLU also recently came out with a report on racial disparities in the federal death penalty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=2379&amp;scid=&quot;&gt;http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.or.....&amp;scid=&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here is a site  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm&quot;&gt;http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm&lt;/a&gt; that can show you some good numbers and has some fair links to find data. There have been several studies that have shown drug use to be equal across social, political, ethnic, and economic backgrounds. Police spend time on poor minorities for many reasons. Most communities encourage drug operations for the poor, but community leaders don’t allow operations that would get their children arrested.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-985330"><em>Lupe @ 46</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>There was a good study on drug enforcement in Seattle by the Kennedy school a few years ago.<br />
<a href="http://www.defender.org/projects/rdp/jfkschool.pdf">http://www.defender.org/projects/rdp/jfkschool.pdf</a></p>
<p>It showed that, at least in Seattle, the arrests and prosecution of African Americans for drug violations is not only out of proportion to the population, but also out of proportion to the population of violators.  </p>
<p>So, at least in this instance, it’s not right to argue that the African American arrest rate is higher because African Americans violate the drug laws more often. It’s hard to find data illustrating that point, because data is hard to come by.  Police departments don’t want to cough it up, and judges are hesitant to order broad discovery for disparate treatment claims.  </p>
<p>Layer on top of that the fact that certain people just want to find and believe a race-neutral excuse these disparities, and these issues are tough to ferret out and address honestly.</p>
<p>But this is a very interesting study, I think that is a start at debunking some of our lazy excuses.  </p>
<p>The ACLU also recently came out with a report on racial disparities in the federal death penalty.<br />
<a href="http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=2379&amp;scid=">http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.or&#8230;..&#038;scid=</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Here is a site  <a href="http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm">http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm</a> that can show you some good numbers and has some fair links to find data. There have been several studies that have shown drug use to be equal across social, political, ethnic, and economic backgrounds. Police spend time on poor minorities for many reasons. Most communities encourage drug operations for the poor, but community leaders don’t allow operations that would get their children arrested.</p>
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		<title>By: Shemp Lugosi</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985702</link>
		<dc:creator>Shemp Lugosi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985702</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-985296&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;jim oconnor @ 19&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I don’t get it. What possesses someone to wake up and decide to place a confederate flag on their car? At what point does that seem like a good idea? Why stop at a confederate flag, why not include a swastika?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Having grown up in the South, I can assure that people who do this don’t just “wake up and decide”.  It is picked up from their environment from such an early age that no decision is actually involved and they never question whether or not it is a “good idea”.  I can understand why you don’t get it, especially if you’ve not spent much time around these types.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-985296"><em>jim oconnor @ 19</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>I don’t get it. What possesses someone to wake up and decide to place a confederate flag on their car? At what point does that seem like a good idea? Why stop at a confederate flag, why not include a swastika?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Having grown up in the South, I can assure that people who do this don’t just “wake up and decide”.  It is picked up from their environment from such an early age that no decision is actually involved and they never question whether or not it is a “good idea”.  I can understand why you don’t get it, especially if you’ve not spent much time around these types.</p>
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		<title>By: dmac</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985698</link>
		<dc:creator>dmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985698</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;tw at 154—–o/t Facebook group “I bet I can find 1,000,000 people who dislike George Bush!”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;now THAT’S a reason to go through facebook hassle again!!!!!!!!!!!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(i got kicked off for not using a real name, remember?)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tw at 154—–o/t Facebook group “I bet I can find 1,000,000 people who dislike George Bush!”</p>
<p>now THAT’S a reason to go through facebook hassle again!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>(i got kicked off for not using a real name, remember?)</p>
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		<title>By: maunga</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985638</link>
		<dc:creator>maunga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985638</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-985539&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;kathleen @ 197&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-985483&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;raven @ 181&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Even President Bush has demanded that the Israeli government stop expanding and building in the illegally occupied territories&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now there is a ringing endorsement.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt; 43 does not have his head up where the sun does not shine on every issue.  Both Bush 41 and James Baker demanded that Israel stop expanding and building in the occupied territories too. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The all know this is a losing battle and that Israel is doing themselves more harm than good by continuing to defy the International community.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Are you still here Kathleen?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is all BS of course, ‘cos 43 and whoever could solve te problem in a second, by calling in the loans, stopping all supply, and freezing all balances until all Sec Council Resolutions ad been complied with and an agreement to negotiate DOWN from GA 181.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The only Atonement many want to hear is for stealing the Palestinians land based on a political propaganda fiction “book” begun in about 630BC!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The “Atonement” would be to pay reparations and leave!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-985539"><em>kathleen @ 197</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-985483"><em>raven @ 181</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>. </p>
<p>Even President Bush has demanded that the Israeli government stop expanding and building in the illegally occupied territories</p>
<p>Now there is a ringing endorsement.</p>
</blockquote>
<p> 43 does not have his head up where the sun does not shine on every issue.  Both Bush 41 and James Baker demanded that Israel stop expanding and building in the occupied territories too. </p>
<p>The all know this is a losing battle and that Israel is doing themselves more harm than good by continuing to defy the International community.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Are you still here Kathleen?</p>
<p>It is all BS of course, ‘cos 43 and whoever could solve te problem in a second, by calling in the loans, stopping all supply, and freezing all balances until all Sec Council Resolutions ad been complied with and an agreement to negotiate DOWN from GA 181.</p>
<p>The only Atonement many want to hear is for stealing the Palestinians land based on a political propaganda fiction “book” begun in about 630BC!</p>
<p>The “Atonement” would be to pay reparations and leave!</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985605</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985605</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-985552&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Adie @ 202&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt; I believe he has publically stated that he regrets that vote, and he has already taken an active part in trying to repeal - he was a co-sponsor.  Their attempt was defeated.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Why exactly does he regret his vote?  What is there to see now that wasn’t perfectly clear at the time?  The MCA once passed became 10 times harder to change or repeal.  Gestures now to that effect carry very little weight.  Sherrod Brown has a lot to answer for.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-985552"><em>Adie @ 202</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p> I believe he has publically stated that he regrets that vote, and he has already taken an active part in trying to repeal &#8211; he was a co-sponsor.  Their attempt was defeated.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Why exactly does he regret his vote?  What is there to see now that wasn’t perfectly clear at the time?  The MCA once passed became 10 times harder to change or repeal.  Gestures now to that effect carry very little weight.  Sherrod Brown has a lot to answer for.</p>
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		<title>By: Adie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985579</link>
		<dc:creator>Adie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985579</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-985549&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;raven @ 200&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-985540&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Adie @ 198&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;kathleen 189&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;HEY Grrrl!  Sometimes I forget I have company, and I go all pouty.  I’m gonna stop that.  I am!  Right this minute! *g*&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;hey Adie, we were putting together s Special Forces A-Team last night and I said you’d want to be part of it! :)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;heh. cracked me up to see someone upthread grudgingly admitting he surely must be better than DeWine, implying hapless deweener was unfit for dawgcatcher. well. Duh.&lt;br /&gt;
We MUST educate these people! They’re surely &lt;em&gt;pretending&lt;/em&gt; to be delusional.  Donchathink?! It’s not a fatal flaw to be able to acknowledge &lt;strike&gt;mistakes&lt;/strike&gt; &lt;strike&gt;misconceptions&lt;/strike&gt; stuff and change your mind. eh?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To the ramparts! Hoh! ;-&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-985549"><em>raven @ 200</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-985540"><em>Adie @ 198</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>kathleen 189</p>
<p>HEY Grrrl!  Sometimes I forget I have company, and I go all pouty.  I’m gonna stop that.  I am!  Right this minute! *g*</p>
</blockquote>
<p>hey Adie, we were putting together s Special Forces A-Team last night and I said you’d want to be part of it! :)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>heh. cracked me up to see someone upthread grudgingly admitting he surely must be better than DeWine, implying hapless deweener was unfit for dawgcatcher. well. Duh.<br />
We MUST educate these people! They’re surely <em>pretending</em> to be delusional.  Donchathink?! It’s not a fatal flaw to be able to acknowledge <strike>mistakes</strike> <strike>misconceptions</strike> stuff and change your mind. eh?</p>
<p>To the ramparts! Hoh! ;-&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: raven</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985561</link>
		<dc:creator>raven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985561</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-985551&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Dave Bell @ 201&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;There are times when I wonder how concepts such as “racist” get defined, these days. The current shibboleth in the UK is “diversity”, and I’ve had the lectures. The problem is that it is being defined in terms of culture, but it’s still mostly about race.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;OK, the colour of your sjkin is pretty obvious.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But there I was, in a thoroughly whitebread office, being lectured about cultural diversity, and I just knew the callow, eyebrow-pierced, youth wasn’t part of my culture. But the difference between my culture and his isn’t so easily visible. It’s buried in his behaviour, in how he succumbs to a slavish devotion to the structures of a bureaucratic form, and in how his answers to questions sound like canned mini-lectures.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No C-beams glittering in the dark near the Tannhauser gate, nothing so strange, but I’ve seen things he never will, heard the chimes at midnight, and am left with no expectation that his mind could compass both.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Different cultures, and mine being lost like tears in the rain. That’s diversity for you.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Racism is easy; it’s the broken, plaster-encased, leg of humanity. So why can’t we deal with it?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;How do you really feel?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-985551"><em>Dave Bell @ 201</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>There are times when I wonder how concepts such as “racist” get defined, these days. The current shibboleth in the UK is “diversity”, and I’ve had the lectures. The problem is that it is being defined in terms of culture, but it’s still mostly about race.</p>
<p>OK, the colour of your sjkin is pretty obvious.</p>
<p>But there I was, in a thoroughly whitebread office, being lectured about cultural diversity, and I just knew the callow, eyebrow-pierced, youth wasn’t part of my culture. But the difference between my culture and his isn’t so easily visible. It’s buried in his behaviour, in how he succumbs to a slavish devotion to the structures of a bureaucratic form, and in how his answers to questions sound like canned mini-lectures.</p>
<p>No C-beams glittering in the dark near the Tannhauser gate, nothing so strange, but I’ve seen things he never will, heard the chimes at midnight, and am left with no expectation that his mind could compass both.</p>
<p>Different cultures, and mine being lost like tears in the rain. That’s diversity for you.</p>
<p>Racism is easy; it’s the broken, plaster-encased, leg of humanity. So why can’t we deal with it?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>How do you really feel?</p>
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		<title>By: Adie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985552</link>
		<dc:creator>Adie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/21/difficulties-ahead/#comment-985552</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-985522&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;selise @ 193&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-985438&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Adie @ 147&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;That’s why I’m often frustrated @ FDL pups’ ho-hum attitude twd Sherrod Brown.  He’s not only got a solid voting record on progressive issues, but he’s always working, always listening, always thinking. ;-&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i used to be much more of a fan… but voting for the MCA really pissed me off. there are some lines that just should not be crossed… and voting for kangaroo courts, indefinite detention, torture and the end of habeas corpus was way over the line.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;that said, i think it is possible he regrets that vote. i’m waiting to see what actions he takes to repeal it.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I believe he has publically stated that he regrets that vote, and he has already taken an active part in trying to repeal - he was a co-sponsor.  Their attempt was defeated.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-985522"><em>selise @ 193</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-985438"><em>Adie @ 147</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>That’s why I’m often frustrated @ FDL pups’ ho-hum attitude twd Sherrod Brown.  He’s not only got a solid voting record on progressive issues, but he’s always working, always listening, always thinking. ;-&gt;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>i used to be much more of a fan… but voting for the MCA really pissed me off. there are some lines that just should not be crossed… and voting for kangaroo courts, indefinite detention, torture and the end of habeas corpus was way over the line.</p>
<p>that said, i think it is possible he regrets that vote. i’m waiting to see what actions he takes to repeal it.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I believe he has publically stated that he regrets that vote, and he has already taken an active part in trying to repeal &#8211; he was a co-sponsor.  Their attempt was defeated.</p>
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