Clip from a Democracy Now broadcast with MLK's Mountaintop Speech from Memphis on April 3, 1968.
This is the end of a long week. And the end of Constitution Week. And the day after a huge march in a little town called Jena in Lousiana. In a week where it has felt like we were all treading water, a whole host of folks -- reports are between 10,000 and 25,000 last I heard -- showed up, stood up, and spoke up. Good on every single one of them for asking the questions that needed to be asked, including why a juvenile is still being held in jail after his sentence was vacated on appeal.
At the conference on Race, Inquality, Poverty and the Media with the Eisenhower Foundation last winter, a question was posed to me about racial disparities in sentencing and charging decisions. I have to admit, it was a tough one for me to field, because I grew up in and still live in West Virginia, where racial diversity is not exactly a huge issue -- not so much because we are perfect at it, but because we have a very small population of color by comparison to a lot of surrounding states.
After the conference, though, I noticed this idiot who started driving around my hometown with a huge confederate flag streaming off the bed of his truck on a sort of make-shift flagpole...and suddenly, the smallness of the population of people of color in my town didn't seem like a good comparison point when clearly ignoramuses come in all forms -- and pretty much everywhere. (Just saw this goober the other day, again, and he still had a flag streaming out of the back of his truck. He's allowed, it certainly is his right to display it, but...nothing like advertising yer redneck status for all the world to see. Classy.)
Since the conference, I have spent some time looking into the issue to educate myself on what so many others have to deal with on a day in/day out basis, and I wanted to bring you just a tiny window into an enormous set of issues that need a whole lot more sunlight. Seemed like a fitting end to Constitution Week to me -- bringing a little more sunlight into issues that far too often get swept back under the rug by too many folks.
-- Eugene Robinson has an op-ed in the WaPo today addressing the Jena6 issue, but his last point is one that is broader and worth some extended discussion as well:
...Why is this interesting? Because black America is increasingly complicated and diverse, riven by fault lines that didn't exist back when the great civil rights heroes were marching in Selma. We're not forced by law to live in the same neighborhoods or to go to the same schools anymore. A generation has reached adulthood without ever experiencing the in-your-face racism of the Jim Crow era. There are black families that have had multigenerational middle-class success, and black families trapped in multigenerational poverty and dysfunction.
Black radio is one of the places where all the varied segments of black America still come together. It's a true community medium, even if what we still call "the black community" is, for most purposes, best thought of as plural.
But yesterday's protest needed more than the right medium, it needed the right message. When a local prosecutor in a small Southern town is confronted with a racial clash and he gives the whites a slap on the wrist while trying his best to send the blacks to prison, there aren't many black Americans who feel they can enjoy the luxury of indifference.
We don't see that many instances of overt, unapologetic, separate-and-unequal racial discrimination these days, thank goodness. Let's hope we never see another. Because when something like Jena happens, we're reminded, as the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. wrote in his letter from the Birmingham jail, that "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." And we're reminded that however diverse we are, to some people we all look alike.
-- There have been a lot -- and I mean a LOT -- of repugnant noose provocations and instances lately. A recent one at the University of Maryland, hung in front of the black student union, came up during the broadcast of the WVU/Maryland game, and local coverage of the incident has been more of a disbelief and disgust tone. But I found this opinion piece in the BaltSun useful for some historical context, and thought you all might as well.
-- I can recall seeing the story of a young man, Marcus Dixon, on a Real Sports show back in 2003 or so. Tried to find a clip of the show, but came up empty, but I did find some background on the piece here for everyone. it was a statutory rape case wherein two high school students, one a black male aged 18 and one a white female aged 15 had sex, got caught at it, and lived in a state where consent issues and the slight age differential did not make a difference to the prosecutor charging the case. (See here for more on what that means.) Dixon was tried and sentenced to 10 years in jail -- and his case was one that was tragic and symbolic on so many levels of what can go wrong when discretion is abused in the justice system for all the wrong reasons. And this is just a single case in a sea of questions on this one issue.
-- The Sentencing Project has been looking at a lot of the issues surrounding guidelines disparity for federal criminal cases. The information that can be found on their website is both informative and, in a lot of cases, incredibly depressing on a lot of levels.
More than 60% of the people in prison are now racial and ethnic minorities. For Black males in their twenties, 1 in every 8 is in prison or jail on any given day. These trends have been intensified by the disproportionate impact of the "war on drugs," in which three-fourths of all persons in prison for drug offenses are people of color.
Jeralyn has been digging into this issue for a while -- and has had to deal with it in her defense practice for clients, I am sure -- but we are still talking about this, without there being a resolution to the problems inherent in the unequal treatment says a lot about how far we all still have to go.
Like I said, this is just a tiny window into this -- there are so many more issues and instances. But it's a good place to start on a whole lot more discussion that we need to have. And, during Constitution Week, I thought it was a good time to contemplate what the words "equal justice" ought to mean to all of us.
PS -- Color of Change has a petition to Gov. Blanco and the local DA regarding the Jena6. Thought some folks might be interested in it.
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CHS thanks for focusing on this important issue, and thanks for all you do for justice.
!
Okay, can anyone recommend a good article that summarizes what happened in Jena? Because the MSM narrative is that there were some racial incidents in Jena, everything calmed down, and then several months later a bunch of black kids beat a white kid into unconciousness for no good reason. I know that there must be a lot more to the story than this, but that’s the summary that’s coming out of the MSM. I talked to my partner about this last night, and he said that NPR’s coverage has been really good, but I’m looking for something in print, and I don’t want to wait for the authoritative article in “The New Yorker”. Thanks!
Christy –
THe reason these draconian laws exist — these laws used 9 times out of 10 to destroy the lives of black people for what is treated as a harmless peccadillo for a white person — is because abusive, lazy prosecutors LIKE YOU have continually demanded them.
Since you people are so bad at getting convictions honestly, you keep nagging legislatures to send you grotesquely out-or-proportion sentencing guidelines so you can get defendants to plead out even when they did nothing wrong.
To hear a prosecutor like you — literally the most unaccountable office in the US — wring your hands about injustices like Gernalow Williams and the Jena 6 is just pathetic hypocrisy.
Terrific post, too many in this Country have no hope of equal justice under the law. To a lesser degree, the unfairness extends to all who are poor, but to be poor and of color is absolutely damning in many jurisdictions.
Frank Probst @ 4
Short story
I grew up in south Florida and remember my mother (Kentucky So Belle) telling us to lock the car doors when we drove through “Colored Town” in the late 50’s and early 60’s. She died in 1967, but I like to think she would have progressed from her upbringing as the 60’s moved in.
I have an Ot Question for selise re: the Dem policy committee hearing, are you here??
I went digging last night to find a good summary of the whole Jena 6 controversy after discovering some friends had no idea what was going on. While I have a pretty good idea since I’ve been following it, it was actually surprisingly difficult to find a top to bottom summary — most articles are already at the bottom, so to speak. Any good summaries? Because the questions I’ve got make it clear that a good number of people don’t even realize the white students were also fighting but only the black students got charged with “assault”…
People are afraid of young black males–if it’s left up to juries- they’ll be warehoused in prison until they are no longer young black males.
Check out CNN. Report two arrested for hanging nooses off the back of a pick-up truck in Alexandria, Louisiana, less than an hour from Jenna.
Frank Probst @ 4
Democracy Now’s Amy Goodman has been focused on the Jena 6 for quite some time now. She went down last year just after the noose hanging took place. Many of her shows have segments focused on this critical issue.
Here is Amys show today
http://www.democracynow.org/ar...../21/158211
Thursdays show
http://www.democracynow.org/ar...../20/138236
Wednesday’s show
http://www.democracynow.org/in.....e=20070919
If you go to Democray Now’s archives you can find many shows that Amy has been focused on the Jena 6 and the history of this issue.
Looks as if the dark underbelly of racism is parading in public for all to see. Not pretty.
Goopers have been gettin mileage out of pretending that it’s all over.
moron at 5 — Well, that’s lovely. (a) That sort of law doesn’t exist in WV — we have an age disparity question written in, as well as one for consent, so it isn’t an issue where I practice. (b) I was a state, not a federal prosecutor, so I didn’t deal with sentencing guidelines, and for a long time before that I was a defense attorney. (c) I’ve worked for legal reforms, so where you get the idea that I’m sitting here doing nothing is in your own damn mind. And (d) you know absolutely nothing about the type of prosecutor that I was, but I can tell you that my relationship with both the African-American and Hispanic community leadership was very good, small though the communities were (and still are) and that we did a LOT of work together on child abuse, poverty and juvenile intervention issues to prevent problems for the future.
Not that I have to answer to someone who self-styles himself a moron. But you’d do well not to advertise it with a dumbass comment like that.
Continuing his penchant for cowardice under fire, George Bush addressed the Jena 6 issue yesterday, and all he managed to say was that the incident saddened him.
Saddened him.
He had a chance to stand up for equal justice under the law for blacks and whites in this country, but all he could managed was that it saddened him.
Hell, he could have been equally saddened by finding a fly in his tuna salad for lunch.
It saddened him.
Dubya, thy name is coward.
Morning. Just getting to the Lake.
Yesterday was quite something for me in all respects. I’ll read the post and then come back…
rwcole @ 10
I’m afraid of pasty old white men from the midwest!
Dave @ 11
I expect this happens more than we know.
NOt that it usually matters, but this discussion makes me wonder what percentage of folks here are other than white? No response expected, just thinking out loud.
I don’t get it. What possesses someone to wake up and decide to place a confederate flag on their car? At what point does that seem like a good idea? Why stop at a confederate flag, why not include a swastika?
As a Democracy Now regular, I’ve been following Jena developments for a lot longer than most people at lefty blogs. I was actually surprised at how much the MSM finally glomped onto the story this past week. But, sure enough, I’ve heard, seen and read caricatures of activists like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, especially listening to FAUX Radio News.
Yesterday, driving home from Anchorage, I listened to Michael Savage rant and shout about how those young men deserved to be - yep, hanged! Along with Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and - he somehow fit this guy into Jena - Mahmoud Ahmenidejad…
Amy Goodman at the Democracy Now website has lots of detailed information on the situation. So many things happened around this whole situation that I don’t think a succinct summary is possible.
One of the great subtexts of the Bush administration has been white supremacy. When they talk about Christians, they mean white people. When they talk about traditional values, they mean the values that were in place when white people ran this country unopposed. When they talk about the law, the fact that OJ skated carries a million times more weight than all the people of color who may have been wrongfully executed. Why else the hysteria about “illegal” (read Hispanic) immigration? “Support my war,” whispers Bush, “and I’ll return the country to white people.” That’s why the Jena prosecutor thought he could get away with it.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 14
I had no intention of responding th this guy, CHS, defending you and Jane is never needed. But
Good for you.
jim oconnor @ 19
My great-grandfather was in the Confederate army so that flag is part of my heritage. And there is no way in hell that I would display it.
I worked on a project in MA one time and one of the others was from Richmond, VA. He just didn’t understand why the flag was so bad until myself and another pointed out to him that it was as offensive a symbol as the swastika. Once he realized that, it made sense to him.
Too bad so many others don’t achieve a similar enlightenment.
kathleen @ 12
A great resource, I’m poking about it. But so far I’m getting lots of different articles focusing on very specific things. Is there a good timeline/narrative of the events themselves? I’ve got people asking me questions the same way Frank’s getting them — complete ignorance of the original incidents so all they’re getting is “Why is this guy, convicted of assault *clutch pearls* supposed to be let out???” kind of narrative…
PS, DN! is somewhat irritating because it offers visual and audio clips but I’m not seeing a transcript for this
http://www.democracynow.org/ar.....amp;tid=25
for example. Sigh.
Oh, this seems to have a summary:
http://www.truthdig.com/report.....e_in_jena/
Thank you Christy.
We were listening to details about the Jena6 on NPR yesterday. The more we heard, the worse it sounded. Sounds like some serious mishandling of the whole incident going on.
Some local minister essentially said, “this isn’t us. not our community. we’re not like this.” yup nothing to see. leave it be. we’ll handle our own the old-fashioned way. move along folks.
Same fella ‘llowed as how they’d already handled the underlying problem, -um-
WARNING: Set down hot beverages before reading further!
- Handled the whole problem, by GUM they did!?!
….. by cutting down the tree under which the black kids had ought permission to sit, and from which nooses were hung for - what???! art?.
Erm, Jena? you still have a problem.
No. REALLY!
Now, you just watch. FAUX Newz will probably say the only important issue is that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have no bidness meddling. I, personally, think their presence is very reasonable, and apparently necessary, especially since that local fella was all too bizzily trying to sweep the whole thing under the nearest filthy carpet.
Ed*ard Teller @ 20
I agree the MSM just jumped on. The BBC and Amy have been on it for quite some time. Amy on it just after the incident. She went to Jena almost immediately. She is devoted to truth and justice.
Some classy chick, you.
What I thought you’d say, but even better.
Really! Moron?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 14
Queen Christie, that would be…. ! *g*
I have a line when I see the confederate flags flying. I tell them they are flying the wrong flag. The last flag the rebels in the South flew was the white flag of surrender.
-GSD
P.S. Conservative black blogger LaShawn Barber thinks that Thompson, Rudy, Mitt and Crazy Train McCain really have scheduling conflicts and can’t appear at the African-American issues debate instead of an abject fear of large groups of Black folks.
dalloway @ 22. I’m afraid you are right. We seem to be living in 1907, not 2007.
Mr. Vance’s testimony is truly frightening. Finally a Senator shares his outrage.
kdh22 @ 17
Ain’t that the truth! Plus some pasty men from up in New England…
Nothin more pathetic than these conservative black talking heads—sad.
Dave @ 11
a lil’ thing:
there’s jenna, not-jenna, and Jena. Careful with those typos, everyone…
And while we’re on the subject of the Confederate flag, don’t its venerators realize the people who flew that flag were traitors who took up arms to destroy the United States? No, I guess we liberals are the “traitors” for pointing that out. That flag should be offensive to all Americans who love this country, not just African Americans.
GSD @ 30
*g* Must remember that one.
kathleen @ 32
Can you elaborate for the rest of us? Thanks.
Can I just mention that Sen Dorgan is getting some great testimony about the private contractor issues. the hearing does not seem to be viewable later (unless selise the sleuth can find out more), but the transcript will be.
Sorry for OT, thanks.
After yesterday, I may be grasping for straws but maybe, with Jena, African-Americans will show the way to take back our country. I am also biased by the effect that African Americans and DFH’s had on American society in the ’60’s.
dreamcatcher @ 38
I hope they get some security for him immediately. This must get out because that will keep him safe.
I don’t believe that everyone who fought under the confederate flag was an asshole- but most of them that put one on their pick me up truck probably are.
dreamcatcher @ 38
Mr. Vance is a US citizen and was held by Blackwater in Iraq for close to month in solitary confinement. He is testifying. The link is back at the last post. Selise linked it. Will try to bring it over.
Listening to the Blackwater hearing.
dalloway @ 36
Ahem, to a lot of folks from the South, the conflict between 1860 and 1865 is “The War of Northern Aggression”.
Christy 14
Wish I had redd hair & could do that. ;->
There was a good study on drug enforcement in Seattle by the Kennedy school a few years ago.
http://www.defender.org/projects/rdp/jfkschool.pdf
It showed that, at least in Seattle, the arrests and prosecution of African Americans for drug violations is not only out of proportion to the population, but also out of proportion to the population of violators.
So, at least in this instance, it’s not right to argue that the African American arrest rate is higher because African Americans violate the drug laws more often. It’s hard to find data illustrating that point, because data is hard to come by. Police departments don’t want to cough it up, and judges are hesitant to order broad discovery for disparate treatment claims.
Layer on top of that the fact that certain people just want to find and believe a race-neutral excuse these disparities, and these issues are tough to ferret out and address honestly.
But this is a very interesting study, I think that is a start at debunking some of our lazy excuses.
The ACLU also recently came out with a report on racial disparities in the federal death penalty.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.or.....&scid=
GSD @ 30
A distant relative was in on the capture of ol’ Jeff Davis. The Union cavalry sergeant noticed that one of the women in a party camped for the night was wearing very expensive cavalry boots. The sergeant started questioning the woman, and soon realized the woman was a man named Jefferson Davis. Under the dress, Davis was wrapped in an American flag. Under the flag were several money belts full of gold. At least that’s the version in family lore. We served on both sides, and there were family members fighting each other directly at Gettysburg.
I HATE Confederate flags. They’re usually flown by very, very creepy people.
dreamcatcher @ 38
Mr Vance reported on illegal gun dealing and was reporting to the FBI. He was taken by the Americans held for 92 days and treated terribly, loud music and lights 24/7 and no lawyer or charge. He had no rights and no one knew where he was.
rwcole @ 42
It’s the same crowd that can’t get over the civil war that think blacks whine too much about racism.
-GSD
Frank@4
some links for you. Pandagon has been on this since May.
http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2.....hade-tree/
http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2.....-jena-six/
The issue of race in the US is highly complicated, especially so because of the country’s specific history of slavery. On the other hand, several countries in Europe are only recently experiencing racial issues because empires (on the faces of immigrants) have been coming home, so to speak. These countries are now grappling with issues that the US have been grappling with for about one hundred fifty years. In a sense, the US is a little more better engaged to tackle racism and discrimination than many of these European countries. There are laws and institutions in place to facilitate this process, which is not yet the case in Europe. (The UK might be the exception in this respect, for reasons that I can’t even begin to unpack here.) But racism in the US still exists. And we all need to fight it. And race is definitely a volatile third rail in US politics.
On a personal note, I have a different perspective than many of my native-born African-American brothers and sisters. I use racism as a cipher for explaining events and experiences only when all other ciphers fail at adequate explanation. Let’s just leave it at that.
zennurse @ 39
Maybe selise could try cocoajt to archive streams.
Have a good friend who moved to Lousiana with her husband- who is from the area. She loves the place- but got a little concerned when she learned that her next door neighbor was a grand kleagle- or somethin.
OT..but too good to pass up.
George Bush the Texan is ’scared of horses’
By Alex Spillius in Washington
(snip)
Vicente Fox, the former president of Mexico, derided his political friend as a “windshield cowboy” – a cowboy who prefers to drive – and “the cockiest guy I have ever met in my life”.
He recalled a meeting in Mexico shortly after both men had been elected when Mr Fox offered Mr Bush a ride on a “big palomino” horse.
Mr Fox, who left office in December, recalled Mr Bush “backing away” from the animal.
(snip)
Telegraph UK
Blackwater hearing.
http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/
zennurse @ 39
Please don’t apologize, or hold back. I think everyone here is acutely interested in both subjects. Probably rather multitask than miss either. ;->
Lupe — It is very difficult to get numbers on that — every study I have read on this has some way of trying to quantify the disparity versus population versus potential violator population — but each study has a different methodology on it. I’m not enough of a stats expert to dig into that with any level of real world breakdown, but I would LOVE to see some comparison done between the various studies on some equal comparison level — because I think the numbers would be really shocking when you put everything together into a whole.
George W. Shitheel, the good old cowboy who’s afraid of horses and the fella everyone wants to have a beer with who don’t drink.
But it was Al Gore who was the yarn spinner.
Jeebus.
-GSD
Rascism gets all dressed up in sunday go ta meetin clothes—and looks SO squeaky clean an shiny faced on sunday mornin.
Clusterfuck don’t ride horses- he jest MILKS em.
Good morning, Christy. Another beautiful day in the mountains. Mt. Rose has a dusting of snow and here the leaves are turning and the later summer flowers are still in bloom. All this against an intense Nevada blue sky. What a great gift from nature!
Jena, Louisiana. Ugly by contrast. The work of humans. Our dark, destructive side. Coming from Louisiana and my family still there, I can attest that Jena is just the typical view of many people in the area. I call them Jim Crow Lite. You can bet that most of these “good” people in Jena are Republicans.
Why are they Republicans? Because a gentleman’s Agreement was made with these people so they could continue their Jim Crow “rights” as long as they kept it under the national radar. And, so they do. A noose is just an innocent prank. Threatening white people with “a burning cross” is just “kidding you”. How do I know this? When a black friend of mine went to visit New Orleans my Mom invited her to stay at her home. The neighbors actually said this to my Mom. To quote: “Guess we will just have to burn a cross on your lawn.” She was in her late seventies at the time.
The Republican Party nurtures the Jim Crow Lite old ways and they never address it. It’s time they do.
kathleen @ 43
Go here for a good article by Robert Scheer on Blackwater. Among other things he draws a parallel between Blackwater in Iraq and the British mercenaries during the pre-revolutionary era that led the the Revolution.
Short Scheer: He doesn’t think Blackwater is a good idea.
Robert Scheer on Checkbook Imperialism
dakine01 @ 24
Ma middle name is Lee, after Teh General.
And proud to say it.
But, oh brother.
I also saw the mother of the young man who was beaten being interviewed. Big I ignorant. These kids have no idea what the nooses symbolized, imho.
Just. Plain. Ignorant.
The parents should take responsibilty too.
The Sins Of The Fathers. Seven Generations.
twȝk @ 52
Maybe selise could try cocoajt to archive streams.
That’s some cool software, tw3k!
Two arrested this minute a short distance from Jena with nooses on their pickup: here
There was a great piece on CNN last night (and I can’t find it on their site today) about the organizing young black bloggers did to bring people to Jena - wonderful work and great hope for the future in these young activists.
OT: But Biden just gave quite a speech on the floor and seems to be making an alliance with Webb to move to a multi-national, UN based diplomatic resolution in Iraq. I was riveted. I could certainly vote for him with out holding my nose.
Just after Katrina I clearly remember when Hardball’s Chris Matthews said “Katrina has ripped the scab off of racism and poverty in our nation”. MSNBC focused on the aftermath of Katrina for about a month and then helped put that scab right back on. I challenged Chris Matthews at the Libby trial asking him to do his best to put the spotlight back on this issue.
The Jena 6 puts the spotlight back on this important issue. Justice!
Steve-AR @ 54
Bush Straight Talk
Steve-AR @ 54
If Bush was only afraid of horses, that would be just fine with me. Trouble is he is afraid of a lot of other things, including putting his life on the line for his country.
(Not weasel words these, I am an Army vet.)
rwcole @ 59
Google Lee Atwater and the “N” word and you’ll get a good explanation of the Republican strategery based on racism.
Basically anything that was construed to help blacks, welfare, busing and all was emphasized by the R’s in order to drum up anti-black sentiment in the South.
Good strategy if you don’t have any morals.
-GSD
Ed*ard Teller @ 64
Code source (Licence GPL)
Always a plus in my book!
Dreamcatcher I read that article the other day. The Truthout website is wonderful.
After this hearing how in the hell can Blackwater stay, especially with no accountability and no way to prosecute these creeps
Thanks for linking it.
peanutbutter @ 33
Let’s just say pasty old white men in general. They all look the same to me.
rwcole @ 13
Especially when the MSM complies
rwcole @ 60
I’ll bet you’ve never seen film of a wild horse milking contest - sort of a cruel & dumb, rodeo-type event.
I hate the idea and the abuse, and hope it’s not still done. Still, an eviliceous part of my brain would luv to see shrublet just up ‘n TRY! The only film I’ve seen, the horses won the contest every time and, ‘at the end of the day,’ a fair number of the cowboys had to be carried out of the arena.
nonplussed @ 7
This is better, but it’s still not complete. I want a “warts and all” version of what happened, and this isn’t it. For example, “Black student tries to enter largely white party. When white students attack and beat him, the student who breaks bottle over his head is charged with a misdemeanor and given probation.” There a LOT of detail missing here. And here: “White student threatens black students with a gun in a grocery store. Black students wrestle gun away from him and are charged with second-degree robbery.” And the event that lead to the arrests is described like this: “White student taunts black student about his beating with racial epithets. Black students beat him and he suffers bruising and concussion. Black students are charged as adults for attempted second-degree murder.” Either the victim is the world’s stupidest white person, or there were two groups of people involved here. I’d also like to know what exactly was said. “Racial epithets” covers a lot of territory. A far-right interpretation of that last quote would be that a lone student called a group of black kids “good basketball players”, and they beat the living shit out of him. I don’t think that’s what happened. A far-left version is that a large group of white kids were dropping the n-bomb on a smaller group of black kids, and a brawl ensued, leaving one of the white kids unconcious, and then a racist prosecutor charged all the black kids with attempted murder. I don’t think that’s the true story, either (but I do think that’s closer to what really happened). At the very least, someone should try to tell us who was actually there, what their connections were to the previous incidents, and who said what to whom.
realworld @ 66
Tilt your head back, stuff a kleenex in your nose, and wait 5 minutes. If it doesn’t stop by tomorrow, seek medical attention.
It’s important to mention that the hearing today is of the Democratic Policy Committee and heard through their website. Waxman’s hearing is on Oct 2, that’s the one Mr. Prince has an engraved invitation for. They were invited here today but declined.
Bunny Greenhouse has spoken, she better get a seat at the table in the upcoming Dem administration.
My concern is that Jena will be a blip on the news radar and forgotten by next week. The Republican Party has not addressed its support of the Jim Crow Lite ways. When I brought this up in the last election among my Democrats, they either ignored it or condemned my statement saying there was only incidental racism in the South. The Democratic Party refuses to call the Republicans on this. Another Gentleman’s Agreement.
Please read Percival Everett’s ‘Appropriation of Culture’, a truly wicked short story (been on the Public Radio’s Selected Shorts) where the Confederate Battle Flag is converted to the Back Power Flag, so the rednecks abandon it. I wish everyone infested with such yahoos would act in such a way. Everett is a truly gifted writer.
What’s with all the hubris over pickup trucks flying Confederate flags?
While Israel practices brutal apartheid, runs over dissenters with bulldozers, and Star of David flags fly on cars in Teaneck New Jersey.
Gimme a break.
Christy:
Thanks for the post. Sorely needed. Thanks again.
GSD @ 70
Not just the South; it works in all parts of the country. I lived in Boston during the “busing era”.
I hate to leave but I have to.
Strongly recommend following the outcome of this hearing.
have a lovely day, friends.
With the “stroke of a pen” President Bush commuted Scooter Libby’s sentence. Perjury and obstruction of Justice in the investigation of the outing of an undercover CIA agent who was deeply involved with National Security
6 young black men are told by a Judge that he can ruin their lives with “a stroke of a pen” for beating up a young white man. These young black men faced life in prison.
How in the hell can anyone wonder why there is such deep disrespect for our justice system?
I don’t doubt that racism is part of the disparity in crime and punishment but I also wonder to what degree the free market effects this outcome. For instance the greatest growth industry in the poorest county in PA is the prison industry.
Steve-AR @ 82
Again, in 1966 MLK said people in Mississippi could “come to Chicago to learn how to hate”
Adie @ 77
707!
I’m going to do a quick post that is only slightly marginally barely on topic:
I just saw my first Wyoming state quarter this morning. The motto on the back of the coin is ‘The Equality State’. This is the state where Matthew Shepard was left tied to a fence to die.
QuakerGirl @ 79
It is beyond that. Institutional racism in the Democratic Party shows itself mostly by the Party’s white stalwarts refusing to ratchet up investigations into egregious voting rights violations against African-American voters in the Southeast and the Urban centers in the Mississippi/Ohio/Missouri valleys. The white leadership of the Dems are doing virtually nothing to prevent ongoing low-key caging and voter purges.
peanutbutter @ 25
that’s only because it’s today’s show. transcripts will be up later today, and if you look through the archives you will see transcripts for every show (as well as video and audio files for download).
all of this is paid for by donor contributions - no corporate donations like with npr.
imo, Democracy Now! is the best, bar none, daily news program. i highly recommend it to all progressives - you will find news here not available anywhere else.
Look, I know there are racists throughout America. But the Southern Strategy was deemed the Southern Strategy because it dealt mainly with the South.
There are racists everywhere in America, but they are particularly abundant in the South and that was why the Republican Party engineered the Southern Strategy.
-GSD
PLovering @ 81
There is room to oppose all of the above. Sorry you can’t see that.
raven @ 86
Nothing is more vivid in my mind than the Boston “southies” screaming in the street with such hate-filled faces.
raven at 86 — My roommate in college and her boyfriend, both of whom were African-American college students at very good schools, got chased out of a Dominos pizza place in the middle of the afternoon by the broom-wielding owner who thought they were trying to rob him instead of picking up their pizza. In very liberal Northampton, MA. No bounderies, and sure as hell not concentrated in the South by any stretch…
And I find this interesting:
and meanwhile- in baseball news- the San Diego Padres are only a half a game out in the pennat race.
kathleen @ 84
NPR had the father of the white boy who was beaten, leading to the charges, on this morning. The reporter failed to ask the important question to the dad, “How was it your son was able to drive to a school dance that same evening?”
oddmommy @ 73
Now, be nice, please (from a pasty middle-aged white man who will most likely be a pasty old white man some day in the not too distant future). :})
And for those who have asked for a linear narrative of the Jena 6.
OT - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has driven a stake into the heart of The Bridge to Nowhere
realworld @ 66
No way in the world the Bush/Cheney would ever let this happen. Can you imagine Kofi Annan negotiating with Iraq the rights to give the US control over Iraqi Oil?
Ya see, what Cheney wants is not the oil in Iraq. That belongs to the Iraquis, no argument there. No, he just wants control over the oil.
O/T- This is funny.
American common law has traditionally defined assault as an attempt to commit a battery.
Assault is typically treated as a misdemeanor and not as a felony (unless it involves a law enforcement officer). The more serious crime of aggravated assault is treated as a felony.
Four elements were required at common law:
The apparent, present ability to carry out;
An unlawful attempt;
To commit a violent injury;
Upon another.
As the criminal law evolved, element 1 was weakened in most jurisdictions so that a reasonable fear of bodily injury would suffice. These four elements were eventually codified in most states.
Modern American statutes define assault as:
an attempt to cause or purposely, knowingly, or recklessly causing bodily injury to another; or,
negligently causing bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon.
Some states also define assault as an attempt to menace (or actual menacing) by placing another person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury.
States vary whether it is possible to commit an “attempted assault” since it can be considered a double inchoate offense.
In some states, consent is a complete defense to assault. In other jurisdictions, mutual consent is an incomplete defense, with the result that the misdemeanor is treated as a petty misdemeanor.
Furthermore, the crime of assault generally requires that both the perpetrator and the victim of an assault are human. Thus, there is no assault if an ox gores a man. However, the Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 treats the fetus as a separate person for the purposes of assault and other violent crimes, under certain limited circumstances. See H.R. 1997 / P.L. 108-212
Some possible examples of defenses, mitigating circumstances, or failures of proof are:
A defendant could argue that since he was drunk, he could not form the specific intent to commit assault. This defense would most likely fail since only involuntary intoxication is accepted as a defense in most American jurisdictions.
The defendants could also argue that they were engaged in mutually consensual behavior.
This is a racist country despite many people not being racists… many many are.
The new ni**ers though are gays and Moslems.
[Mod Note; Edited by mod. In the future, let’s try to find a better term. Thanks.]
Late to the party, as usual, but perhaps someone has already asked this - is this Moron commenter the same guy you were talking about in your post Christie? The ignoramus with the flag on his truck? His coming in with that comment right away made it sound like a plant, or at least a comedy routine. *g* Thanks for the laugh
ignoramusMoron.EvilDrPuma @ 92
Here’s a piece of my KitKat bar.
Perhaps some chocolate will do ya good.
I’ve never read here that people floating the Israeli flag was okay.
It’s one battle at a time.
Or, it’s nothing.
I live in LA and some people hate the Armenians kids to drive around in their Lexus’ with Their Flags.
All behaviour which promotes division instead of diversity is harmful.
Better?
zennurse @ 39
i am recording audio (just in case). but the DPC should post both video and transcripts in their archive (or so i was told when i called yesterday). here’s the link (scroll down)
twȝk 87
Oh thank you for understanding. I was going to say just, “wait 5 minutes,” but took the gamble.
I actually am such a sucker for punishment, I got really excited myself at first, over the idea of bide-a-wee’s political
clout actually working with Webb on getting the UN involved.It’s just… we’ve been ‘burned’ so many times, eh? *sigh*
Christy Hardin Smith @ 95
Ding
oddmommy @ 73
I’m good with that one :-P
Ed*ard Teller @ 89
EvilDrPuma @ 92
I’ll start with my own back yard - my country.
selise @ 106
and everypup has to listen to it!
or read the transcripts!
And also:
Not to excuse US racism by any means at at all. But: there’s racism in different forms everywhere in the world. At the root of it is fear and loathing of the Other. These twin emotions operate to differentiate Same and Other. We can reduce prejudice and perhaps eliminate discrimnation. But we can never erase racism from the human condition.
(There’s a difference among prejudice, discrimination, and racism that I’m sure I don’t need to spell out for most FDLers.)
you know what?…listen to this;
and look at what has happened to this country
we all weep souter, every one of us cries for this country, what she was before the coup and what she has become because of it
A Utopian Vision:
During class a student asks the teacher whether it is permissible for black students to sit under the “white tree.” The teacher asks the student what is meant by the “white tree.” The student explains that that particular tree has always been the place where the white kids congregate. The teacher explains that although that may have been customary, there are no “white places” or “black places” at this school. That they may sit wherever they choose.
The teacher than meets ASAP with the principal and not only details the Q&A but expresses concern about possible racial tension in the school. The principal schedules a mandatory assembly for the following Friday.
The next morning, several nooses are found hanging from the tree and removed immediately. A vigorous investigation is launched and the students responsible are identified and their parents are called in. After questioning the kids about why they hung the nooses they are suspended until further notice.
The principal calls the NAACP or a local black church known for social activism and requests a speaker for the scheduled assembly. A presentation is given at the assembly that addresses the school policies on integration and the historical significance of the noose. It is announced that counselors will be available for any student who were frightened or angered by the incident. The students are also encouraged to use the suggestion boxes to anonymously express their feelings about the tree, the noose or the suspension of their fellow students. Another assembly is scheduled for the following Friday.
Meanwhile, the suspended students are brought in and offered the same counseling. They are required to submit a report on the history of racism and the significance of the noose as a symbol of intimidation. They are told that if they successfully complete the assignment and apologize to the entire student body at the upcoming assembly, they will be allowed back into school with a period of probation.
The entire faculty of the school meets to discuss the matter and read the student writings that were left in the suggestion boxes to plan for the next assembly and for classroom discussions.
All of this would of course take valuable time away from teaching “the test” but could just possibly defuse the situation without ruining the lives of a large number of students.
LEXANDRIA, Louisiana (CNN) — Authorities in Alexandria, Louisiana, arrested two people after nooses were seen hanging from the back of a red pickup Thursday night, the city’s mayor told CNN.
Alexandria is less than an hour away from Jena, Louisiana, and was a staging area Thursday for protesters who went to the smaller town to demonstrate against the treatment of six black teens known as the “Jena 6″ in racially charged incidents.
Have posted this petition for the Jena 6 numerous times but what the hell more signatures can only help! Pass it on if you feel so inclined.
http://www.colorofchange.org/jena/
Biodun @ 99
Better.
And for those interested in Jena’s history, politics, name origin, demographics, famous residents, and so on.
twȝk @ 52
i’d need some help with the translation. it’s been a long time since my HS french class.
dakine01 @ 99
I’ve seen your pic, and you are NOT pasty.
(Can’t quite define pasty, but I know it when I see it.)
Ot. and sorry if this has already been posted. But the new Moveon Ad for the NYT this weekend is out. And it is {{{{{FABULOUS}}}}}
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....115032/846
New thread upstairs by Peterr. Strange thing, though; comments are closed, according to my computer. I tried for the zed, but couldn’t post.
Demi @ 63
This evening begins the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur. (pronounced Yome) It is the Day of Atonement. The biblical phrase you allude to is from the liturgy of that service.
In the spirit of the day, I ask forgiveness from any lake dwellers whom I may have offended, and do hereby publicly announce that any offenses against me, if there were any, are long forgotten, and forgiven, and no one should be punished on my account.
Ann in AZ @ 124
Yes but you can’t post to it. :-(
Frank Probst @ 118
Thank you! Passed that right along.
oddmommy @ 121
Agreed. I think the expression is a large part of it. There’s pasty and there’s ALIVE.
BigMitch @ 124 -
that’s beautiful BigMitch, thank you. i’m really glad you hang out here at fdl.
We are all racist in one form or another.
Malcolm Gladwell, in his book Blink.. directed readers to an excellent online test about ones cultural bias. (click on Multicultural vs Unicultural)
Jenna is such an important story and falls at an ironic time for many of us in Arkansas. We are celebrating the 50 yr. anniversary of the Little Rock 9 and Central High School crisis. President Bush has declined his invitation to attend..
I happened to attend LR Central High for Kindergarten class of 1970..)
With court reversals of Brown this year and the booming Charter Schools, many publicly funded on Church property… We have turned back and are now rolling in the wrong direction again.
Richmond @ 123
Ass Kissing Little Chicken Shits! Hey, they aren’t all little
Ann in AZ @ 124
It’s like those ads that Pach put up during the Libby trial. It is mean to not have the zed opportunity (I tried too) but I think it is just a reminder post, not a new thread. We need to stay the course here. *g*
selise @ 121
That’s not a French word, AFAIK.
The post from Peterr is an announcement — there will be a post with comments in a little bit. We wanted to get the word out about the Book Salon for everyone.
raven @ 108
I grew up in the northeast in the 40’s & 50’s. It was there, even within our own house, tho no doubt invisible to those on one side of the issue. I was incensed about that from the very 1st awareness. One was not allowed to talk of such things in our house. Absolutely forbidden subject matter. Best friend in high school black; we were both kinda shunned, and shy, so we didn’t even think of hanging out together outside of school. The community physically was split right down the middle, and the only blacks to be seen on the white side were the maids trudging back and forth from the train to the city.
Oh, it was there alright. I think the “quiet” kind of racism is just as evil and dangerous as the more overt bubbabrand.
Adie @ 107
The mental image is funny, and hell, if the dims can’t push through relief for the troops and their families there is no way they can get more diplomacy through.
Gnome de Plume @ 132
That’s right an if it were live I would have been first!
raven @ 131
That is so fine! I am proud to have donated to make that ad possible. Thank you MoveOn.
selise @ 121
The app is in english!
perris @ 114
I listened to an NPR interview with Toobin the other day — found it both fascinating and terrifying.
He talked about how bad things got for Sandra Day O’Connor, who evidently, after she helped put Bush in office, found out she couldn’t stand him. Boo freakin’ hoo.
He said Roberts really is what he seems: a brilliant idealogue who is deliberately driving the court to the right.
And he said Clarence Thomas is so far to the right even Scalia has said he’s “nuts.”
Hang in there, Justices Stevens, Ginsburg and Souter. Please…..
And don’t anyone even THINK about not voting in the ‘08 election.
BigMitch @ 124
May you experiece At One Ment.
peanutbutter @ 127
And I thank you both. But I can’t play p*k*r with the expressive face… ;})
Biodun @ 132
ok, but if you check the link you’ll see why i wrote that.*g*
EvilDrPuma @ 93
Is there also room to oppose equating the flag of a sovereign nation displayed within territory for which it has legal domain with the rebel flag displayed to commend rascism? I sure hope so.
twȝk @ 138
great, are there english instructions?
CocoaJT is a Mac OS X app that allows you to see vidoes from different channels (72 transmissions are available. You can see with ease news from: (then lists the French channels.)
raven @ 136
hmmmm….ain’t you the same feller who used to think chasin’ the zed was kinda silly?
twȝk @ 136
not if they don’t try, anyway.
If they don’t even try to improve things, I lose patience in a whiz-bang hurry.
That’s why I’m often frustrated @ FDL pups’ ho-hum attitude twd Sherrod Brown. He’s not only got a solid voting record on progressive issues, but he’s always working, always listening, always thinking. ;->
Biodun @ 145
can i use it to rip video from any random real player stream?
BigMitch @ 144
Oops. I thought you were objecting to displaying the Israeli flag in the disputed territories. Scuse please.
BigMitch @ 143
ditto here.
vous pouvez ainsi acceder avec simplicite…:
you can therefore easily access…
BigMitch @ 124
Thank you, BigMitch. Please include me as I know I have offended, and, feel no animosity whatsoever towards any of the good folk at FDL. Peace be with you!
o/t Facebook group “I bet I can find 1,000,000 people who dislike George Bush!”
Demi @ 141
If only our neocon brethren, who should be observing this most holy of days would also ask for forgiveness.
Big Mitch, there is only one offense that I will never be able to forgive or forget: Your devotion to the Yankees.
selise @ 145
No, but it’s a Mac App!!! :) *g
selise @ 149
I think so, but I’m a Windows, not a Mac guy…
BigMitch @ 144
She was talkin bout Joisey.
If we uphold the right of MoveOn to criticize Gen. Petraeus, we are upholding the same right that would allow someone to fly the Confederate flag, or the Swastika for that matter.
The line is drawn if someone flying the Confederate flag (or the Swastika) escalates that to interfering or violating someone else’s civil rights.
Incidentally Demi, it may seem like a quibble, but the quote from the Book of Numbers 14:18 is
18 The aLord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
It goes on to state that He remembers the righteousness of the fathers “Unto the thousandth generation.”
You should pardon the expression, but “Thank God for that!
BigMitch @ 144
Both are associated with racially charged violence against humans who happen to be living in their domains. Isra*l can vote how it wants and support the worst sort of leaders (or sit back as others get assassinated -but do our tax dollars need to support them, to say nothing of their attacks on their neighbors. As you probably know it was the continued Isra*li sales of arms to the South African appartheid government despite pleas everywhere to stop that in part began the problem with the negative African America view of Isra*l (to say nothing of the views of some of my Je*ish family and colleagues of Palestinians as less than human).
twȝk @ 156
This might help tho
the hearing is finished. i’ll edit and upload the audio now. should take 30 minutes or so. the links will be posted here for downloading…. check back in a bit if you want the file (mp3)
Gnome de Plume @ 155
Unfortunately those same neocon brethren, who will attend Yom Kippur service tonight, see no inconsistency between the meaning of atonement and their advocacy of pre-emptive war against an Arab nation that did not attack us.
Gnome de Plume @ 155
Big Mitch, there is only one offense that I will never be able to forgive or forget: Your devotion to the Yankees.We have another prayer for your kind.
Blessed is the Lord our God who opens the eyes of the blind.
:-)
dreamcatcher @ 164
Yes. You have it there in a nutshell.
PLovering @ 81
Good sight dealing with these issues
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
Conference on this issue in Boston
Boston Sabeel Conference to explore “The Apartheid Paradigm in…
“If you changed the names, the description of what is happening in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank would be a description of what is happening in South Africa.”
http://www.fosna.org/BostonConferenceOct2007.htm
Friends of Sabeel-New England presents . . .
“The Apartheid Paradigm in Palestine-Israel:
Issues of Justice and Equality”
October 26 – 27, 2007
Old South Church, 645 Boylston St., Boston
Friday—2:30 PM—10:00 PM
Saturday—8:00 AM—4:30 PM
Keynote Address: Archbishop Desmond Tutu
dreamcatcher @ 159
Where was the Petreus ad inciting racial violence?
oddmommy @ 140
I’m not buying it, she left the court knowing there would be an idiologue to replace her
I don’t care what her excuse is, if she hated this president and knew what the president would do with her replacement, there is nothing that should have torn her from the court till this president left office
I don’t want to hear about her personal problems, she ignored those problems until bush came into office, she needed to stay until he left office
selise @ 163
link fix
perris @ 169
Yup!
dreamcatcher @ 158
actually, i don’t think the two are the same at all.
that said, i do defend the legal right (not the moral right) of people to fly the confederate flag or the swastiika. it is my responsibility to counter demonstrate and explain why that is an evil act.
What I meant to say:
BigMitch @ 165
We have another prayer for your kind.
Blessed is the Lord our God who opens the eyes of the blind.
:-)
Richmond @ 171
Too cold for me. And I hated SJO’C from the gitty-up.
selise @ 172
Disagree. It is like crying fire in a theatre. We have laws against inciting racial violence. I also think we can keep things such as public hangings or electricutions - or kiddie porn-off the public airways. If people want to do this fine, do it on the web or in your home.
New Christy Upstairs!!
BigMitch @ 150
The International community has clearly defined the occupation of these lands as illegal and in violation of UN resolutions. The only government who defines the occupied territories as “diputed” is the Israeli government.
Even President Bush has demanded that the Israeli government stop expanding and building in the illegally occupied territories
Adie @ 148
Gotta be big a improvement over DeWine!!!111
Richmond @ 168
Flying the Confederate flag in and of itself is not an incitement to violence. To presume that is to put punishment ahead of the act. If you want to defend the right to free expression you have to be even-handed.
Otherwise, you begin to emulate the bigots of both the right and the left.
selise @ 163
Thank you so much Selise.
.
Even President Bush has demanded that the Israeli government stop expanding and building in the illegally occupied territories
Now there is a ringing endorsement.
perris @ 169
well, the “tragedy” as Toobin described is was that she reluctantly left the court to care for her ailing husband…and by the time she was able to do so he was too far gone (with Alzheimer’s) for her to do so.
But I agree with you. As I said, boo freakin hoo. Not normally the response I would have to someone in such a situation, but I have zero sympathy for any of those who unleased Bush on the country and the world. Zero.
dreamcatcher @ 179
I do think one can vote (or legislate) not to fly it on public property-which is fine by me.
One of the wedge issues embraced not just by Republicans but Democrats as well, is equal rights for gays and lesbians. You can see today in the Advocate Hillary overreacting to a New York Post article, insisting she’s not a lesbian. The angst attached to such an attribution is as palpable as the hostility towards gays and lesbians among Bill Clinton’s voting block in the black community. It is considered the kiss of death to be tagged as pro-gay and lesbian rights, if you’re prospects of gaining office depends on “the black vote.” It is moreover ironic that such prejudice is cultivated in the black community, given the history of blacks in America. But there it is, stirred up and spurred along from the pulpit of black churches across America.
Churches in America, separated by race. Now there’s a topic for discussion.
These are the installation instructions from the CocoaJT site:
Installation:
CocoaJT requires RealonePlayer. This player is available free from http://www.real.com. Since version 3.0, CocoaJT also supports Microsoft Windows Media Player:
Step by step
1) Download RealOnePlayer and Flip 4 Mac
2) Leave Safari
3) Install RealOnePlayer and (probably means and/or) Windows Media Player in your Applications folder
4) Load CoacoaJT
5) Start CocoaJT
CocoaJT works with Mac OS 10.3.9 and Safari
CocoaJT for earlier versions of Mac OS is available here.
Richmond, 175:
There is no analogy here.
The famous case cited by Justice Holmes refers to crying “fire” in the theater when in fact there is no fire.
If the 1st amendment guarantees freedom of expression, why draw the line at flying the confederate flag, or for that matter drawing the line at MoveOn calling Petraeus “Betrayer.”
You can’t selectively use the 1st amendment to support only your side of the political spectrum. That is what Bush wants to do.
About an hour south of my house is the farthest west civil war battle ground at Pichaco Peak state park, which is silly name anyway….. in Spanish it is peak peak park… They do the reenactment battle every year right around the time the wildflowers are out in the spring so it is a traffic mess.
Odd Mommy at 140..
Judge Sandra Day O’Connor an integral part of the 2000 Presidential selection….a Judicial coup.
The book “Too Close to Count” clearly explains about the disenfranchised black votes in Florida, but especially in Volusia County (Jacksonville)
twȝk @ 178
You betcha. Many of us here in Ohio worked our asses off for Brown. He is the “real deal” although I do not agree with him on everything. But that is as it should be. He is trying to represent a lot of people
kathleen @ 188
I was so furious about that. I wrote an article about the “Kingmaker’s Court” back then. Grrr!!! I actually thought that the SCOTUS was our only real problem back then. :: sigh ::
Hugh @ 184
thanks hugh. since it’s free, i’ll give it a try as soon as the audio file for today’s hearing is uploaded.
dreamcatcher @ 186
Let me explain this last remark about Bush. When Bush commented on the senate resolution agiast MoveOn, as a leader of the oldest living democracy in the world, what he should have done was defended MoveOn’s right to speak their mind. Instead, he chastised not only MoveOn but the Democrats in Congress, who as a collective entity, did not have enough guts to defend the 1st amendment.
The greater shame is not on the Republicans who voted as expected, but on the Democrats who should have known better.
Adie @ 147
i used to be much more of a fan… but voting for the MCA really pissed me off. there are some lines that just should not be crossed… and voting for kangaroo courts, indefinite detention, torture and the end of habeas corpus was way over the line.
that said, i think it is possible he regrets that vote. i’m waiting to see what actions he takes to repeal it.
peanutbutter @ 190
I made it into one of the Supreme court hearings during that fiasco that has cost us our country. But cost the Iraqi people not only their country but their lives.
The hearing was Fascinating
Odd Mommy would love to read your article can you link it?
kathleen @ 195
Kathleen — that was peanutbutter who wrote the article.
raven @ 181
43 does not have his head up where the sun does not shine on every issue. Both Bush 41 and James Baker demanded that Israel stop expanding and building in the occupied territories too.
The all know this is a losing battle and that Israel is doing themselves more harm than good by continuing to defy the International community.
kathleen 189
HEY Grrrl! Sometimes I forget I have company, and I go all pouty. I’m gonna stop that. I am! Right this minute! *g*
katymine @ 187
Better than Squaw Peak Iguess. You in Casa Grande?
Adie @ 198
hey Adie, we were putting together s Special Forces A-Team last night and I said you’d want to be part of it! :)
There are times when I wonder how concepts such as “racist” get defined, these days. The current shibboleth in the UK is “diversity”, and I’ve had the lectures. The problem is that it is being defined in terms of culture, but it’s still mostly about race.
OK, the colour of your sjkin is pretty obvious.
But there I was, in a thoroughly whitebread office, being lectured about cultural diversity, and I just knew the callow, eyebrow-pierced, youth wasn’t part of my culture. But the difference between my culture and his isn’t so easily visible. It’s buried in his behaviour, in how he succumbs to a slavish devotion to the structures of a bureaucratic form, and in how his answers to questions sound like canned mini-lectures.
No C-beams glittering in the dark near the Tannhauser gate, nothing so strange, but I’ve seen things he never will, heard the chimes at midnight, and am left with no expectation that his mind could compass both.
Different cultures, and mine being lost like tears in the rain. That’s diversity for you.
Racism is easy; it’s the broken, plaster-encased, leg of humanity. So why can’t we deal with it?
selise @ 193
I believe he has publically stated that he regrets that vote, and he has already taken an active part in trying to repeal - he was a co-sponsor. Their attempt was defeated.
Dave Bell @ 201
How do you really feel?
raven @ 200
heh. cracked me up to see someone upthread grudgingly admitting he surely must be better than DeWine, implying hapless deweener was unfit for dawgcatcher. well. Duh.
We MUST educate these people! They’re surely pretending to be delusional. Donchathink?! It’s not a fatal flaw to be able to acknowledge
mistakesmisconceptionsstuff and change your mind. eh?To the ramparts! Hoh! ;->
Adie @ 202
Why exactly does he regret his vote? What is there to see now that wasn’t perfectly clear at the time? The MCA once passed became 10 times harder to change or repeal. Gestures now to that effect carry very little weight. Sherrod Brown has a lot to answer for.
kathleen @ 197
Are you still here Kathleen?
It is all BS of course, ‘cos 43 and whoever could solve te problem in a second, by calling in the loans, stopping all supply, and freezing all balances until all Sec Council Resolutions ad been complied with and an agreement to negotiate DOWN from GA 181.
The only Atonement many want to hear is for stealing the Palestinians land based on a political propaganda fiction “book” begun in about 630BC!
The “Atonement” would be to pay reparations and leave!
tw at 154—–o/t Facebook group “I bet I can find 1,000,000 people who dislike George Bush!”
now THAT’S a reason to go through facebook hassle again!!!!!!!!!!!
(i got kicked off for not using a real name, remember?)
jim oconnor @ 19
Having grown up in the South, I can assure that people who do this don’t just “wake up and decide”. It is picked up from their environment from such an early age that no decision is actually involved and they never question whether or not it is a “good idea”. I can understand why you don’t get it, especially if you’ve not spent much time around these types.
Lupe @ 46
Here is a site http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm that can show you some good numbers and has some fair links to find data. There have been several studies that have shown drug use to be equal across social, political, ethnic, and economic backgrounds. Police spend time on poor minorities for many reasons. Most communities encourage drug operations for the poor, but community leaders don’t allow operations that would get their children arrested.
Adie @ 198
Adie you are not alone
BigMitch @ 125
I forgive you for deeply deeply offending me. BTW, what was it you said again(?) and who are you? Oh, forget it.
Gravi tas and all that jazzola.