You've got to be taught to hate and fear . . .You've got to be taught from year to year . . .
Wednesday's New York Times featured a front page picture of a group of horrified school girls who were watching people being shot and killed. The caption underneath read,
"Palestinian girls huddled in a school hallway yesterday in Nablus as Israeli soldiers and Palestinian gunmen clashed. A solder and a militant died. . . "
Soldier versus gunmen. Soldier versus militant. We don't know whether the soldiers were peace keepers or part of an invading/occupying army; were the gunmen/militants "terrorists" or "resistance" and "patriots" defending their homeland? Words matter, and in this simple, seemingly innocent caption, which might have appeared in any US newspaper, we are already conditioned to make certain assumptions.
It is subtle here, but the bias is persistent and pervasive throughout our media. On cable channels and right wing talk shows and blogs, it moves from subtle to suggestive to blatantly racist and eliminationist.
But the lesson is always the same: One side is always legitimate and moral; the other is always criminal. One has the right to be dominant; the other can be crushed and eliminated without moral qualms.
It's got to be drummed in your dear little ear . . .
You've got to be carefully taught.
For six years, we've heard Administration language calculated to inflame contempt and/or fear of Middle Eastern Muslims. They are Islamists, or Islamic extemists, or Islamofascists. Once we invaded and occupied Iraq, those who resisted became insurgents, militant extremists, terrorists and now al Qaeda. Never the resistance to occupation; never patriots in their own countries or heroes to their own people. They are "the enemy."
In numerous speeches, the President has identified not just al Qaeda, but also Hamas and Hezbollah as terrorists. His descriptions typically describe them as cruel and inhuman, as bloodthirsty, merciless killers. He makes no distinctions, and Fox News adds none.
Last summer, Secretary Rice showed complete indifference to Israel's efforts to eliminate everyone connected with Hezbollah, even if it meant killing hundreds of Lebanese and the destruction of Lebanese towns and cities. All of that was morally acceptable, she explained, because eliminating terrorists was fine, the "birth pangs" of a new order -- a New Order in which it is illegitimate to be or identify with Hezbollah.
You've got to be taught, to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
Of people whose skin is a different shade. . .
After the Hamas takeover of Gaza, Israel, with western nations supporting, imposed a policy of economic strangulation of the entire Gaza population. Yesterday, hoping to discourage rocket attacks on Israeli settlements, Israel declared Gaza to be a "hostile entity," a designation they claim frees Israel to cut off electricity and fuel and take other actions that would otherwise be seen as violations of international humanitarian law.
Reuters is using the more ominous terms "enemy entity," suggesting that helping anyone in Gaza is equivalent to giving aid and comfort to an enemy. A whole people would become the enemy, just because they live there.
Gaza has become a virtual prison; hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, whether they support Hamas or not, are severely affected. Our Government tells us this policy is warranted because Hamas is a terrorist organization. These are not people, not resisters, not patriots, not even innocent bystanders; they are militants, gunmen, terrorists. And we justify it because "they" are just as careless in using hateful terms to describe others as we are.
You've got to be taught . . .
Before it's too late!
Before you are six, or seven, or eight . . .
To hate all the people your relatives hate. . . .
Tuesday's Times reported on the trial of a Muslim charity, Holy Land Foundation, on charges of conspiracy and providing financial support to a terrorist organization. But the charity didn't knowingly fund terrorism, bombings, or weapons:
But at the trial, the government made a more complex and nuanced argument, contending that Holy Land gave money to charitable groups, known as zakat committees, that were controlled by Hamas. They in turn used the money for charitable purposes, including building hospitals and feeding the hungry, which the government said increased public support for Hamas, spread its ideology and helped it recruit terrorists.
Remember, Hamas participated in elections that the Bush Administration encouraged and other nations validated. So you could have contributed to an organization legitimately participating in democratic elections, which is legal, and choosing to help them because they were building hospitals and feeding the hungry, which you approve, but you could be tried because the organization also believed, even if you didn't, in defending itself against what it sees as an illegal occupation. That makes you a financial supporter of terrorism and a criminal.
The language defending our policy is always one sided: "Hamas (or Hezbollah) refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist and to renounce violence." But where is the proof, beyond decades of empty, broken promises, that we recognize Palestine's right to exist, or denounce the unilateral use of force? When will we hold ourselves to meeting the "preconditions" for a peaceful settlement?
We need different teachers, and different lessons.
You've got to be carefully taught.
Update: Via Atrios, Cheney provides a perfect example of the problem, while C&L catches Republican Peter King saying there are just "too many mosques." Photo: His favorite espresso cup, from josesh27566's photostream
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Caw!
yo
And good morning to you, Scarecrow.
zed? Good Mornin’ everybody!
Caw scarecrow.
Good morning Scarecrow!
You know maybe I’m just too stupid to understand this issue but, in my vast experience in life, nothing is one sided. Crazy fucking Zi*nists crazy fucking Muslims. . .crazy fuckers everywhere.
Rut ro, I must have hit the filter!
Last I heard, Bush had no Israel policy. He gave up the goat on that one saying that now is not a good time for negotiations there.
As far as I can tell, it’s just another example of Bush promoting Democracy while alienating the population so that the Democracy they get is against America. Over and over again, Bush just keeps doing it. He’s a total asshole and Rice sucks too.
Since I used words that are not allowed let me say there is plenty of blame to go around.
Work for peace, people. Gotta run!
Have an excellent day!
Shorter Junya I/P Policy: “Now let me see what more ah can do to hep screw things up.”
Mad Dogs @ 11
Like they need help.
From Yahoo article:
The decision lets Israel cut electricity, water and other services that the impoverished, crowded coastal territory depends on Israel to provide.
Bold mine, because I understand later versions of this same article dropped the word water. Because of truth? Or because of pressure?
raven @ 10
Yes. There is an analogous set of negative terms by which those who oppose Israel describe it. Language matters.
raven @ 13
Junya always be willing…and able.
Scarecrow @ 14
I have no problem, you folks know what you are doing.
wow. scarecrow. that was brilliant. thank you.
An earlier article about conditions in the West Bank.
Maybe the biggest fraud committed against the American people was that Bush would be a great guy to have a beer with, despite the huge amount of evidence to the contrary. In fact, Bush is a complete jerk with a drinking problem and too much money. The MSM seems to catch all the cute little “bushisms” that come out of his mouth, but they fail to drive home the fact that he’s a total fucking asshole of a person. Now we are faced with a slate of Republican candidates also full of total assholes. As the American voter seems to cast a sort of emotional, gut-feeling vote, it is important that the American people are as aware of the candidates assholeness as they are of their morally corrupt and failed policies.
Beautifully written. Where is the poem from?
Oh, Rodgers and Hammerstein.
Gotta love the google.
raven @ 17
You should never assume that. We’re in this mess together, and I’m just struggling to sort it out.
btw, I never get instructions about what to write. The Landlady is cool about that (except shorter is better, and this is too long for early a.m. — sorry Jane).
Isn’t it interesting that our “objective” and NOT pro-Israeli biased media cannot use the term Palestinian without grouping it with gunmen? It just rolls off the tongue so nicely. It’s actually scary how normal it sounds to me. It’s like peanut butter and jelly. Now, that is effective marketing. A*PAC and the ADL would be proud. It makes me sick that these Zi*nist, Israeli-firsters continue to hide behind Jews and claim to represent us so as to give us bad name when their machinations are exposed to the light. American Jews have the largest percentage of people against this war and I would bet want nothing more than an equitable solution to this carnage in the occupied territories. As an American first, I fully realize that until we deal with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, we have NO CHANCE of succeeding in this so called war on terror. Until we bitch slap the right wing in Israel(and their US supporters) to behave itself and not act like paranoid pussies, there can be no effort at a solution as they will continue to sabotage the process.
raven @ 7
That sums it up brilliantly, raven.
In a way, what’s going on over there is something everyone should pay attention to because to me it symbolizes the situation here between those who want to work at making things better for everyone and those who couldn’t give two shits about the rest of us as long as they’ve got theirs.
It’s the same two groups that were talking past each other when we were in high school; it’s the same mindset we confronted when we came home; and, unfortunately, I don’t think anything short of a second civil war is going to change anything.
Not that I’m advocating that, but I’m getting ready.
egregious @ 13
i don’t know… but i can tell you that when i was in the west bank (5 years ago!) there were water shortages because the palestinians villages i visited weren’t allowed to control their own water - the israeli settlements had taken control and the palestinians were left to beg for water.
Scarecrow @ 23
I always assumed you were free to write what you wanted. In terms of “knowing what you are doing” I meant in terms of the filters. As far as P-I, I am so far from understanding wtf is going on there. I have almost concluded that it is nothing more than a reflection of what the human race really is, fucked up, murderous and full of revenge.
Scarecrow @ 19
heart-wrenching.
What hope do they have for a future?
Thank you Scarecrow for writing about one of the bigger issues that faces the middle east and our nation. How many times do we have to hear that until the US deals with the I/P issue in a fair and
balanced way the cycle of violence will continue.
From Daily Kos
We have just learned that Congressman Waxman is circulating a petition demanding Congressman Moran apologize for his comments in Tikkun. Please call Waxman at (202) 225-3976 voicing your support for Moran!
It took tremendous courage for Congressman Jim Moran to tell Tikkun magazine of the power and influence of A*PAC and other sections of the Israel Lobby. A*PAC is often described in the media as the most powerful lobby in Washington, D.C., so it is no surprise that its friends and supporters are now mobilizing to vilify Congressman Moran’s comments in the Sept/Oct issue of Tikkun.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/19/14364/2409
Here is the article by Rabbi Lerner being referred to. The interview with Rep Moran is at the end of the article. Read for yourself and determine whether you think Rep Moran is out of line, or is this another case of intimidation and slander being used by the I-Lobby.
The whole article by Rabbi Lerner is well worth the read.
http://www.tikkun.org/magazine.....sraellobby
james @ 23
i think, to be fair in describing what is going there, we have to include the crazy fucking americans.
which is why i think it is so important to really try to hear eachother… to struggle to get past being people who talk past eachother. difficult and unpleasant… but much better than avoidance while the suffering escalates.
raven @ 26
But the point is, the human race doesn’t have to be “fucked up, murderous and full of revenge.”
Humanity is in the core of each of us, it can be wrenched out or scarred over, but it’s there in the beginning.
selise @ 28
crazy fuckers everywhere covers that, thanks.
Elliott @ 29
And the evidence of that is. . .
Smgumby @ 22
I agree on loving the google and yesterday was not only Talk like a Pirate Day but the anniversity of the emoticon.
I always catch those “insurgent” and “militant” references all the time. I guess that is why occupations are so wrong. How can you single out people when they aren’t wearing uniforms?
If, on 911, Osama had landed on on shores with thousands of troops, taking over the country, would the emergency workers have been put to death for helping evacuate citizens from the burning towers? And would I have been put to death for donating to the red cross?
raven @ 31
the smile. :)
Elliott @ 33
Rasta mon vibrations yeaahhh
Scarecrow @ 22
i do think we are all a bit wiser and smarter when we work things out together (or at least i know i am).
but i still think this is one amazingly brilliant post.
And don’t forget: Where have all the flowers gone……
Oh when will they ever learn?
A good book on the area, especially the relations beyween Israel and Lebanon is Israel’s Lebanon War by Zev Schiff.
Very informative for what it reveals about the tactics our military suddenly started using during the 80s.
Another most excellent book is Kathleen Christison’s Perceptions of Palestine, and, of course, Robert Fisk’s The Great War for Civilization.
selise @ 28
I would include the crazy fucking Americans as a subset of the crazy fucking Z*onists.
btw Scarecrow,
we’d be so much more influential — in a good way — if we could wash George Bush right out of our hair.
Love that song. It almost got Rogers and Hammerstein hauled before HUAC, back in the day.
On topic: Yesterday I had a discussion with an old wingnut friend of mine, who is actually starting come around on Habeas Corpus (he’s an old Reagan Dem and pretty much an Americanist tub-thumper). He still holds to the view with respect to Iraq and Iran that the United States should kill the lot of them and take the oil. He’s held this view since the mid 70s, on the grounds that what was good enough for Native Americans ought to be good enough for foreigners.
It’s a mindset. Thank God it’s only about a quarter of the population. (Of course, that’s what they said about the NASDAP in 1928).
Elliott @ 41
Well said.
ManagedChaos — I want to be clear that the problem of hateful naming arises on all sides. I’m focusing on how we, here in America, use language, but I know it’s a universal problem.
raven @ 25
one other point about the filters… we almost NEVER hear about the peace and human rights activists, israeli and palestinian, who every day risk their lives working to protect people and to nonviolently resist the occupation.
stories of amazing courage, compassion and hope.
It’s got to be drummed in your dear little ear . . .
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
And boy, have the media played along.
Thanks for this great posting!
As a corollary, listening to Tom Shales talk about the Rather lawsuit on Morning Mika gives a strong lesson in just how totally ALL the networks have been bitches for Bush. Shales says Rather has Sumner Redstone [CBS owner] on the record wanting Bush re-elected. And Rather was fired the next day.
He says Rather’s suit in his view is looking for honor, he doesn’t need the money. Rather’s ultimate best story for all of us may be this suit which will open up the seedy closets on how the news is corporate self-serving no matter who the face on the screen delivering it.
All part of the painful process of rousing the sleeping sheeple in this country and stemming the dumbing-down, knee-jerk cowboy way of governing.
What a fantastic post Scarecrow. This one’s not just a blog post, it’s literature. Good work!
What is wrong with people!?!?! IMO, the number one problem with most Americans is that they are woefully misinformed, or worse disinformed.
Blogs help a lot (I’m considering getting a “This Machine Kills Fascists” sticker for my laptop, ala Woody Guthrie’s guitar) but we need to find a way to break through to the vast majority of Americans who don’t seek out information.
Not the hopeless 28 percent or so who cling to their Faux News like a kid clings to a safety blanket, but to the majority of people who are basically decent, even if they have lost their sense of civic responsibility.
We need to find a way to take back the mainstream media. Easier said than done, I know, but that doesn’t change the fact it needs to be done.
Scarecrow @ 40
and we do it without thinking - which i guess is part of the point of the poem. maybe it’s impossible not to be blind to our own blind spots… at least i know i almost never see my own mis-use of language until it’s pointed out to me.
As indeed, Hezbollah, Hamas, et al., are taught, far more brutally and effectively than you could possibly imagine.
It’s almost too tiresome to go over the same ground again, but I’ll try. The PLO, as the recognized representative of the Palestinian people, made a number of commitments. The critical one being, to a two-state solution and the concommitant recognition of Israel. The Israelis likewise committed themselves to a two-state solution and the right of the Palestinians to a state of their own. This is the cornerstone of the agreement that brought the PA into existence in the first place. Hamas, once elected under this purview, was bound by these commitments. It declined to be so bound. Since the purpose of negotiations is to produce commitments which the parties will respect in the future, the renunciation of such a commitment by one party makes it difficult to continue negotiations, since it undermines the logic of negotiation in the first place. Which is to say, once Hamas renounced its commitments under Oslo, it destroyed the possibility of further negotiation. It is completely unclear what anyone could do in the face of this kind of intransigence. So we’re in a holding pattern. In the meantime, Israel isn’t obliged to support or cooperate with a political entity that declares its intent to destroy her and daily launches random rocket attacks against civilians.
I know this is horribly pedantic of me. My apoligies for that. But failure to contextualize highly emotionally charged facts is as much of a lie as, say, aluminum tubes.
selise,
How long were you in the West Bank?
How to come to be there? -if you don’t mind my asking.
Breaking on MSNBC.com:
U.S. says it has arrested Iranian officer for providing aid to Iraq militants
Brilliant post, Mr. Scarecrow! I wonder if peace will ever come to that embattled region. Somehow I doubt it, as I all too often observe otherwise rational posters here who are intractable in their demands. As our friend Raven points out there are even words which may not be spoken(?) in polite discussion. Reminds one of another time when even the shape of a table was a major sticking point in the negotiations!
It would certainly be interesting if the Palestinians had a lobby with consummate power in the halls of “our” Congress. Imagine if “Our friends, the Palestinians, right to exist must be protected” was the line of the day in DC. But as the Palestinians have no such voice (due to the lack of equivalent financial clout) it appears they are destined to permanent second class status, could these be lessons learned from our very own treatment of the American Indian Tribes, perhaps?
larry birnbaum @ 45 -
and the massive expansion of settlements after oslo (doubling the number of settlers living on palestinian land)?
the failure to live up to promises made is not one sided. plenty to go around.
JF @ 49
CRAP!
And so it begins…
billjpa @ 38
How about
… and I’ll stand over your grave, till I’m sure that you’re dead ,
which is about how I’m feeling after yesterday’s votes.
larry birnbaum @ 48
How very academic, Larry. Seems like I’ve heard all this shit before. Wonder where??
Another cabinet secretary resigns
Delurking to wish njprogressive a happy birthday.
nonplussed @ 51
Is this true? Is it Mr. Scarecrow? Why have I always assumed it was Ms. Scarecrow. Geez. First Digby and now this….
Birthday present to njprogressive: Let’s work for peace every day! Have a good one, njp.
Smgumby @ 57
Ms Scarecrow, RTO First Team!
egregious @ 56
to run for Hagel’s seat. Thought he was a lousy Agriculture Secretary, it’ll be a pleasure to defeat him in 2008. Let him retire to ADM or ConAgra or Monsanto or …
JF @ 50
Today was supposed to be the big day. Rumour running around about a big bet on oil futures for September 20. I’ve been keeping my fingers crossed on this one. Hope it’s just another blip, but you never know with these guys.
Happy Birthday to njprogressive!
Scarecrow, great article!
Yes, it’s true, the War/Occupation is about Oil, but what keeps it going (until the last man is left standing) is the same thing that started it - Bush’s Neocon Dominance Ideology.
I question if Al Qaeda in Iraq has more than 100 members, but Bush holds them up as the Great Boogeyman, everywhere an unseen danger - like cockroaches, if you see one…
It’s the Bush Mantra: Fear and War, Fear and War, Fear and War…
Bush to have presser at 10:45. What now or is he just going to gloat.
The I/P issue takes a bit more than just generalizing the situation “crazy fuckers everywhere”. Most conflicts start with those who oppress and those who are being oppressed. How many times do the nations in that region have to say that it is our blind support both economic and political of Israel and the fact that Israel refuses to sign the Non- Proliferation Treaty (as well as India and Pakistan) that pisses off the leaders and the populations of that region? How many times do we have to hear this?
You can go to the IAEA’s website and the UN’s website and read letter after letter from nations that have been begging and pleading with the US and the International community to deal with this conflict in a fair and balanced way.
Jimmy Carter, Norman Finkelstein, Amy Goodman, Edward Said, Noam Cholmsky, Benny Morris and many more are good places to start reading about this important issue. Democracy Now’s Amy Goodman has interviewed many about the I/P issue.(her website is filled with interviews)
Reading about the history of the region, the birth and growth of Zionism and the plight of Palestinians is important.
Former President Jimmy Carter’s book “Palestine Peace: Not Apartheid is a great read.”
Here is a link to a conference at Cooper Union in New York having to do with the I-lobby. This conference received O coverage by the MSM.
Panelists:
* John Mearsheimer is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science and the co-director of the Program on International Security Policy at the University of Chicago.
* Shlomo Ben-Ami is a former Israeli foreign and security minister and the author of Scars of War, Wounds of Peace: The Israeli-Arab Tragedy.
* Martin Indyk is Director of the Saban Center for Middle East Policy and Senior Fellow in Foreign Policy Studies at the Brookings Institution.
* Tony Judt is Erich Maria Remarque Professor in European Studies and Director of the Remarque Institute at New York University.
* Rashid Khalidi is Edward Said Professor of Arab Studies and Director of the Middle East Institute at Columbia University.
* Dennis Ross is Counsellor and Ziegler Distinguished Fellow of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and the author of The Missing Peace: The Inside Story of the Fight for Middle East Peace.
http://www.scribemedia.org/200.....ael-lobby/
Americans can be both Pro-Palestine/Pro-Israel by deepening their understanding of the history of the region and the peoples living there.
Egad! I apologize that sudden gender transformation, Scarecrow! Your post remains brilliant-the commenter, not so much.
From Krugman in the NYT’s on the Petraeus hearings:LINK
snowbird42 @ 63
CRAP! CRAP!!! This seems ominous to me with the story about the Iranian “agent” captured in Iraq.
If Bush uses tactical nukes he should not just be immediately impeached, but tried as a war criminal.
Elliott @ 35
Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Carter, Martin Luther King, Jesus, etc. These folks are all examples of the Love, Compassion, empathy and hope that is in each one of us (even though often untapped)
nonplussed @ 67
maybe it was the references to needlepoint…
Kathleen @ 65
yea, you are right, it didn’t start with 6 million people being murdered.
raven @ 59
Does it matter with a scarecrow?
FWIW, I like that Digby’s a “girl.”
SufiLizard @ 68
Bush is safe to do what his handlers want so long as Democratic leadership remains the same.
Elliott @ 46
just a couple of weeks. i so want to go back… but have some health problems that make the trip impossible, at least for now.
i guess it started out as curiosity… i was begining to see that i had no clue what was really going on in the ME (and after 911 i realized i needed to know more). scott schaeffer-duffy came to my church, in the spring of 2002, and did a guest sermon. he had just gotten back from a trip to the west bank (he had been one of the first 3 westerners to get into jenin after the sacking of the refugee camp. it was probably the most inspiring sermon i’ve ever heard… he talked about the smell of dead bodies under the rubble in jenin, he talked about the hope for a better future still living in the people, he talked about the palestinian and israeli peace activists working for that better future. he spoke with such compassion and understanding about the palestinians and the israelis.
the pictures i had from scott were so different than what i was reading in the american press, i just wanted to go and see for myself.
and there was something else… after 911, i was appalled by our response (the blood lust and desire for revenge)… and was looking for another way to respond. scott talked about the israeli and palestinian peace activists’ committment to nonviolence… and i wanted to learn more about that too (and even participate).
larry birnbaum @ 48
Israel continued to build and expand illegal settlements at that same time. They never stopped.
Badwater @ 74
With Habeas in the toilet and no rest for the warriors, BushCo can do whatever it wants, with abandon. Thanks to the fucking selfish, self-centered and self-absorbed. And, I’m talking to you too, ex-Mr. Liz Taylor. You fucking bastard!
selise @ 52
I can accept all of Larry’s reminders as factual, and lots more — but it’s not the point I’m getting at. This is not about how bad Israel is and how good Palestians are, or vice versa. It’s about how humans are taught within their own cultures to describe each other.
I don’t like the excessive use of force, either, but at the same time, it seems obvious to me that it would be easier for Israel to treat those people better if Israel was not subjected to constant attacks and the open threat of total annihilation. It’s hard to be fair with people who say they want to annihilate you. So, I am inclined to cut Israel some slack in these matters.
selise @ 75
wow,
that’s awe-inspiring!
I really admire your courage to really go there, to act so directly. Your spirit’s an inspiration to me.
(((selise!)))
Kathleen @ 63 -
i don’t think it’s fair to the israelis to say the problem started with their occupation of palestinian lands (no matter how wrong i think that was).
the trauma of the holocaust is real. just think how crazy americans went after 911. it’s not fair to expect that european jews (or really jews any where) wouldn’t have be deeply affected by that.
raven @ 70
I wasn’t quite sure how to take that comment, but to add my 2 cents to the conversation I have to point out that we didn’t take land away from Germany to give Jewish people a country of their own.
What happened in the concentration camps was a crime against humanity that goes beyond words — a good friend’s father is a Dachau survivor, though he’s not Jewish.
But as my grandmother repeated incessantly “two wrongs don’t make a right.”
What right did we have to displace the Palestinians to pay for the crimes of the Nazis?
And while we’re on the subject of inherent bias, I’m often bothered by the comment about the Middle East “they’ve been fighting each other for centuries.”
While there’s some truth to that, it is no different than other parts of the world. Look at European history — probably much bloodier since the fall of the Roman Empire than the mid east during the same period.
And while Jews were being tortured and killed by Christians during the Inquisition and other periods, Jews and Christians alike were welcomed and treated with respect in the Islamic world. (edit: well Christians weren’t so welcome after the Crusades started)
In fact for most of the history of Islam, they have lived quite peacefully with Jewish people. Though I’m not expert, I believe Mohammad himself commanded respect for Christians and Jews. (someone will correct me if I’m wrong on that, I’m sure).
I think it is important to realize there have been clear faults on both sides, but we need to really understand as much context as possible if we ever hope to truly understand this problem.
I hope I added something to the conversation, and not just incoherent rambling.
snowbird42 @ 65
Bush to have presser at 10:45. What now or is he just going to gloat.
Ostensibly to announce the resignation of the Sec of Agriculture.
But he *will* be taking questions. Early reports are that he wants to talk about his “support” for SCHIP.
The W Presser is allegedly to announce the departure of the Agriculture Secretary to run for Hagel’s Senate seat.
Lots of anger/angst about who’s to blame. how about some ideas for solutions that don’t assume either side is full of demons.
SufiLizard @ 82
You did for me.
Scarecrow @ 75
i guess i was thinking that part of how we describe each other is the bits we leave out, as well as the words that we use.
I’m with Scarecrow on this - the Us vs. Them mentality is toxic to Peace on Earth, no matter whose mouth it appears in.
What we need is the emergence of an ‘All Us, No Them’ party with the Voice of Clarity that will disspell everyone, all the Us’s and Them’s, of the ills of Ideology, while informing of the benefits of Sharing - we need the DFH Peace Party!
radiofreewill @ 88
There’s only one race
the human race
b. marley
Fantastic post, Scarecrow.
I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to understand the nuances of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict very well, as it seems to be virtually impossible to get a clear and unbiased view of the conflict. The vision we get here via the media is so one-sided, and I continue to be amazed that the vast majority of Americans don’t even realize that Palestinians are not by definitition all radical Muslims - many are peaceful Muslims, many are Christians, and many have other religions. Just because they speak Arabic does not mean they are, by definition, violent people (contrary to what our media has tried to make America believe for decades).
I don’t consider myself to be “pro-Israel” or “pro-Palestine”. I’m just a somewhat uninformed person on the topic who is “pro-peace”.
I find it amazing that we are so well trained to look at people and ideas in stark “good or bad” terms. To me, this mindset dehumanizes us. It trains us to be distrustful, to be prejudiced, and to feel self-righteous (and to not examine ourselves and our own behavior).
Raven the brutal murder of millions of Jews, Poles, gypsies, gays and handicapped by Hitler’s regime is no reason for the Palestinians to have been made refugees.
This excuse for the legal and illegal acquisition of Palestinian land has been used in a manipulative way for 50 years. Read the Holocaust Industry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....t_Industry
There is no argument from me that Israel exist and it was completely understandable that Jews wanted a homeland, but the way Israel came to be and continues to expand in illegal territories is not acceptable.
Raven there are many books written about this topic..you can read the perspective from both sides. But after one reads a great deal about the issue it was not difficult for me to come to the conclusion that Israel needs to abide by UN resolution 242 and 338 and get back to the 67 border (Carter talks in his book about trading land in Israel for illegal land that Israel has been occupying that belongs to the Palestinians)
Comments about euthanasia will be taken off this thread.
Elliott @ 77 -
really, not. it was scott’s ability to inspire me (i spent some time talking with him after that sermon)…. he’s like that.
and scott’s wife, claire, just got back from gaza. i can’t wait to hear about her trip.
landofthefree @ 88
Great quote! Thank you.
Scahill (on Blackwater) now on C-Span 1.
Thank goodness it’s Susan vs. Greta on mod desk today.
raven @ 89
Exactly!
How long have we humans been battling each other? It’s my belief that the fight ends when the light ends.
jayt @ 82
Ostensibly to announce the resignation of the Sec of Agriculture.
But he *will* be taking questions. Early reports are that he wants to talk about his “support” for SCHIP.
I wonder if he’ll gloat about the Webb amendment being filibustered by the Republicans (uh, I suppose instead he’ll frame it as supporting Warner’s little toothless resuolution). Try to look like he gives a shit about the troops because of the brokered deal he made with Warner.
Part of me says that Bush will want to avoid that topic altogether (why put spotlight on the fact that he’s abusing and crushing our military?) But, part of me says the frat boy bully will want to coo for the cameras at how he squashed Webb’s amendment. He is probably itching for an opportunity to stick Webb’s nose in it (since that one encounter the two men had).
Breaking: bush is live now talking about Dept. of Ag’s resignation. MSNBC is not covering it, but instead will cover the presser. So, one thinks the presser will focus on another topic.
But after one reads a great deal about the issue it was not difficult for me to come. . .
And I think that it is great that that is the conclusion you have come to. No one in the world questions whether or not Israel “made” Palestinians refugees, right?
selise @ 80
Selise of course the trauma of the Holocaust is real. All systematic genocides create trauma, just like the one going on in Iraq and Darfur and the many other genocides that have taken place.
But using that as an excuse to acquire land, turn Palestinians into refugees and inflame the region was not the way to heal the horrible scars and bring justice to that genocide.
Jeremy schall author of Blackwater on Washington Journal
right now
Read our own comments, and feel the emotions, and notice how difficult it is for us to talk about Israel/Palestine without anger. We don’t even live there, and readers here are not exactly a representative cross section of America. This is a very hard problem, but I think the solution begins (or at least must include), how we talk about it, and how we describe others.
Waccamaw @ 94
thanks for the heads up!
I switched away from Rep. Mica
(and found the Women’s World Cup game with China 1 v New Zealand 0.:)
Now that we have this problem solved, it’s time to MoveOn to the next thread by Christy.
caw caw!
Scarecrow @ 78
To settlements, true. Although some commitments are more basic than others. And I don’t want to get into a discussion today about how to negotiate with a partner who thinks delaying is to his benefit.
Regarding selise’s larger point, I’m basically in accord. I do think it’s important to point out that the Israelis have been far more restrained both in word and deed than pretty much any other party in the Middle East. And that includes us.
I also want to note the following from this morning’s Ha’aretz:
“Deposed Palestinian Authority prime minister Ismail Haniyeh met in the Gaza Strip with leaders from the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) on Thursday, in a bid to bring about a halt to Qassam rocket fire from from the Gaza Strip.
“The meeting comes in the wake of Israel’s Wednesday declaration of the Gaza Strip as “hostile territory,” saying it would disrupt electricity and fuel supplies to the coastal strip as a step to prevent continued rocket fire at Israeli civilians .”
So you never know.
G’mar tov.
Elliott @ 31
Thank you Elliot… raven and james too. It helps to talk things out.
It’s a start, anyway.
Wonderful post and comments scarecrow.
raven. I’m sorry to see you pro-actively beat up on yourself (#7). I doubt that anyone here will pile on, but we’re not spineless wishy-washy peaceniks either. Some peace activists can be quite bold, actually.
I imagine some even know what “heat” means. ;->
Scarecrow @ 102
heh. 10 on style points.
Scarecrow @ 100
This started for me during the Munich Olympics. I hung out at this campus joint where there was a real mixed crowd. I had a Kuwaiti friend that was a math prof at Illinois. I walked into the bar as they were showing the aftermath of the attack on the Olympic Village. I expressed some disbelief at what had happened and he said, “it’s nothing compared to what the Israeli’s are doing to the Palestinians”. I was stunned, I had no clue really what he was talking. This was about the time the big rift came in the left with so many Jewish activists and then the rise of the PLO. 35 years later and I’m still unsure and I still resist getting lectured to about it.
Scarecrow,
I am so with you on this. However, and this is where everyone wants to “boo” me, it’ means that even the Israeli’s are not good or bad. It means even president Bush. (trust me, it took all my strength to write that sentence.)
I practice a nonjudgmental stance in a very disciplined way as a matter of therapy with folks who have personality disorders. It has been a voyage into a whole new world of getting to know my “enemy”. Byron Katie says “if you still feel they are your enemy, you still have work to do.” And I have found this to be true.
I disagree whole heartedly with lots of stuff that happens on earth, and my emotions (the primitive brain, the great protector) sends me there sometimes so quickly I don’t even notice it. But notice it we must and it doesn’t work to notice it in your neighbor, preach to them and tell them how to live. I have found that the only thing that actually helps people change is when they admit their own pain, see it’s cause and see a solution in the behavior of someone else. If I want the world to change I have to be that change. (heard that before??)
It is so much easier said than done to be nonjudgmental. I struggle every day with this. But I am committed that this discipline as one of the keys to peace. The ability to know a judgment from a fact, and to not act on judgments as if they are facts.
My other observation is that there are people on this earth, that because of trauma or substance abuse or mental illness just cannot learn to accept that their judgments are only that. They are unable to recognize the subtle difference. For some of my clients the wall seems impenetrable. We work on it for years. Some who have a severe hostile observation bias have been able to recognize “I don’t know for sure what that person thinks.” Which unglues them from the opinion that “everyone is out to get me.” But it is one of the most difficult journeys.
It’s hard work to find the valid point in an enemy position and it’s scary at first. But I have found that once I meet someone at the point of fact, we often can go on a fact finding mission together. It’s a discipline.
I wish they taught children how to practice a nonjudgmental stance. My kids know the difference. It’s not that children are not capable of this recognition, because my kids have been taught from an early age. They still cry and get emotional over judgments, but together we try to recognize them and they help me recognize mine. We all judgments and judgments serve some purpose, the key is self awareness. The ability to recognize the difference between a fact and a judgment. Trauma interferes with this learning. And I pray someday we radically accept that the consequences of war are far greater than the death and destruction that occurs in the moment.
There are no simple answers, but the truth will set us free.
Scarecrow @ 82
life isn’t a sporting event where we have to pick sides… or worse, a western where we have to identify the black hats and white hats. we can support israelis WHILE supporting palestinians.
how about supporting the israeli and palestinian peace activists? maybe tell the stories of those people who are committed to the universality of human rights? people like ghassan andoni (palestinian) and jeff halper (israeli). there are lots more people like them that are invisible to americans.
Nice article - one thing Bushco has been very succesful at is appropriating certain terms of the English language and defining them with their own definitions, i.e., the law allowing higher emissions of mercury into the air is called the “Clear Skies Act” while the firebombing of Baghdad - the capital city of a country not at war with us - is called “Shock and Awe” or “Operation Iraqi Freedom”. Nowhere, however, has Bushco been more succesful than in defining who are “their” enemies by use of words like terrorist, insurgent or militiaman to describe all those who oppose an illegal occupation - be it in Iraq or Israel. The MSM has adopted these terms lock stock and barrel. Until the MSM utilizes proper, objective terms such as resistance or freedom fighters to describe the struggles between the occupied and the occupier, the identity of the good and bad guys by the American public will remain so distorted, that we will have a government like we have today - whether Democrat or Republican - that can’t see past this arbitrary good/evil distinction, and as a result will remain ineffective and unable to deal with the realities of the world.
Another outstanding post. Thank you. I was just thinking last night that this topic can barely be discussed. It seems anyone who does not automatically support the policies of I*r*al is roundly condemned.
Katie Jensen @ 108 -
thanks, that was really helpful. can you recommend any reading that expands on your ideas? i’d like to learn more.
S.
South Pacific. Lt. Cable.
Hello,
Quotes from a song are included throughtout the piece. Who wrote the song?
thanks
selise @ 109
Exactly the more we read about the issue from both sides, the more we understand.
Former Jimmy Carter’s book “Peace Now: Not Apartheid” is a good place to start.
Reading the I-Lobby aricle by Mearsheimer and Walt is another good read.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
Alan Dershowitz comes at the issue from another perspective
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Dershowitz
kirk houser @ 114
The song is by Richard Rogers and Roger Hammerstein, from South Pacific. In the story, an American Lt during WWII is on a Polynesian Island, meets/falls in love with a Polynesian girl, but then hesitates when it’s suggested he marry her. He discusses his feelings with Emil, The Frenchman, who asks why he has these feelings. Lt. Cable explains “it’s not something you’re born with; it’s something that happens after you’re born,” and then he sings the song, “You’ve got to be taught…”
Scarecrow @ 100
Really hard for lots of folks even when the conversation is about reading links, both sides. Many folks want to shut it down and try to in subtle and not so subtle ways.
Many of the so called “progressive” blogs have been avoiding this topic for quite some time (don’t care how the FDL bloggers want to spin this) things are shifting.
It is this issue that many lefter’s turn hard right on.
We can do it. We can discuss this issue respectfully and with research that backs up our opinions. And the mostly wonderful moderating and filters here at FDL provide that opportunity.
There have been other sites that have tried to create an atmosphere for this issue to be discussed but have been hammered by trolls and others who do not want this issue to be discussed respectfully and have been shut down
Scarecrow @ 100
we feel strongly when we see an injustice - especially if a country we identify with is involved (for example, i identify with the usa). same thing wrt to iraq - we have strong feelings, including feeling angry at the people who instigated the war and work to continue the occupation.
i don’t think the anger and strong feelings are the problem.
the problem, imo, is that we don’t agree on what is reality…. and you’ve described some of the reasons that is so.
raven @ 107
You resist suggesstions
Kathleen @ 70
It’s called “Buddha nature” and each and every human being has it, and can (and will) become a Buddha eventually…
“May all beings be happy and have the causes of happiness, may all beings be free from sorrow and the causes of sorrow, may they have that great happiness that is without sorrow, may they come to rest in the Great Equanimity, free from attachment and aversion.”
Elliott @ 61
I bet ChimpCO gave the cabinet secretary the nudge and a wink.
This is really what it all boils down to, isn’t it, Scarecrow. Awesome, awesome post. This one’s a keeper.
Thank you for your humanity. If only such humanity were present and visible in our society at large and in our Members of Congress, who - even when not aware of or clued into the reality of what we are doing in and to Iraq - feel entitled to rule Iraqis “for their own good.”
Our occupation of Iraq is an “Americans can do no wrong” approach to an “us vs. them” (often in service to “their riches, and our birthright to take them against their will”) world view when what is needed more than ever is for all of us to learn to live and let live.
[That Holy Land prosecution in Dallas is apparently the culmination of the decade-long monitoring of that and other organizations that came to an end at the time of the leak by Judy Miller (shortly after 9/11) of the pending government asset seizure/raid of HLF to which she was alerted by a tip from someone (presumably) inside our government. The trial has been pending for years, during which time highly classified materials not intended for discovery were inadvertently turned over to the defense in Dallas by the government, and not retrieved for months… The upshot, after the month-long presentation of the government’s case, was no al Qaeda connection or evidence being presented or alleged as apparently was the suspicion back in 2001; it’s all about Hamas. Here’s an excellent progress report from last year, by local reporters:
Http://cbs11tv.com/local/local.....10859.html
And a more recent overview by Josh Gerstein:
Http://www.nysun.com/pf.php?id.....5899659811
It’s hard to tell from the outside if this is simply an us vs. them prosecution, or if there’s actually more here than meets the eye, beneath the surface of these allegations.]
ManagedChaos @ 24
I’ve come late to the party. All very fine, but Jews against A*P*C/The Lobby/PNAC must stand up to be counted and demonstrate their disapproval, and they are not.
Everyone is pussy-footing around this issue.
Politically, —By instantly recognising Israel when it illegally declared itself the US set itself on the path to where it is today, having an enemy, Israel, which is in fact our economic colony.
Historically, — There is no justification for the existence of Israel in Palestine. The Jews were never more than the majority inhabitants of a small part of Palestine, Judaea. ‘Israel’ was an organised society of Canaanites (Palestinians) in the north before the Hebrews even existed as any sort of coesive group. The Old Testament has now been shown, by the Department of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, to be a work of fictional political propaganda written in about 630BC.
Today??? It is simple. The US Congress and Administration should stop listening to the deluded and propagandised Lobby (2,500 years of lies!), and it should tell Israel the loans, al of them are hereby called in, that any future discussion will be around the application of a reduced area based loosely around GA 181. In the mean time Israel will forthwith comply with all Security Council Resolutions.
The first thing that will happen is that a great mass of the (illegal) immigrants will go home.
BTW, if you want to confirm what an enemy of the US is Israel, Google “USS Liberty” and “Jonathon Jason Pollard”….. You might even try “Larry Franklin”
This is true. And it hasn’t been happening only in the past 6 years. Or 15 years. When I was a small child, in the early 60s — it was The Soviet Union. Oh no! They are SCARY! When it snowed, all the children would say, “Don’t eat the snow — it is NUCLEAR! The Soviet Union did it!” (How that happened, we were too young to ask, but that was the era of “duck and cover” drills at school.)
So — it has been happening at least as long as my lifetime — this indoctrination. How much longer? And how many still believe it? Most, I would say. Look at your “good Democrats” — question them. Oh yes, they see the evil of Bush — but all the rest is TRUE!
Wonderful post, scarecrow.
Tiny postscript appropriate maybe?
Words are incredibly powerful, and I agree with everything you said about biased word-use and its spread, whether by design or carelessness.
I also think simple attitude can be extremely helpful OR hurtful, depending. The Us vs Not Us feeling that is harder to pin down. Harder to identify and file. No less powerful than spoken and written words.
Think:
“road rage”, bombing as a political tool, bullying of all sorts, rebuffing a stranger’s act of kindness
vs.
compassion; helpfulness; pre-emptive kindless; holding judgemental thoughts about others at bay; walking in the other fella’s moccassins; something as simple as an eye-to-eye smile and nod to a stranger who happens to share an experience with you, or whose job requires them to do a task for you; letting a politician know when you’re pleased, not just when you’re angry; being careful how you talk about others in front of your children, and even when you think they’re not listening.
Trite maybe, but true: actions speak loudly.
corollary: Look at what the current administration is DOING! IN.OUR.NAME! We cannot sanction their actions, can we?!
Thanks very much for this post, Scarecrow. Badly needed.
No you don’t have to be taught to fear, and this is an important point. The things that you shouldn’t be afraid of, scare you less the more you know about them; the things that you should be afraid of, generally (though not always) scare you more the more you know about them. And hatred, most often either abides in a situation where you know a lot about someone that is hateful, or know very little about someone that doesn’t deserve hate. It’s actually pretty simple, and would be easy to sort out if our MSM wasn’t coming down on the side of reporting where the profit margin is best!
Mad Dogs @ 12
That’s what you get from people who say “government is the problem”.
JF @ 50
What was the Iranian’s name? el Beejai al Tonkin?
toby martin @ 79
This state of internecine war led me to believe that when the peace negotiations held by Clinton broke down that there was (or perhaps more importantly - needed to be) a war to settle the matter or to at least force the sides to realize war was not the answer they’d dreamt of.
Well, the Palestinians haven’t been faring too well in the war and we’ve been occupied elsewhere, so this issue hasn’t been front and center in the American media.
Question now is whether Americans (and everyone around the world) can understand the point made above, that “I don’t like the excessive use of force, either, but at the same time, it seems obvious to me that it would be easier for Israel to treat those people better if Israel was not subjected to constant attacks and the open threat of total annihilation.”
It took the Europeans a long long time to realize War wasn’t really a very satisfactory solution — especially when every big conflagration began to destroy not only the eventual losers, but the so-called winners.
Why did Woodrow Wilson intervene for WWI? It was effective, but barely. He was regaled as a hero, but then pretty much disregarded. Their lack of understanding meant they were destined to repeat their history…yet again.
I’m not quite sure how FDR came to the conclusion that we should intervene for WWII, but it was tremendously effective. Perhaps it was the all-out nature of the war or the Marshall Plan to reconstruct Europe, but they seemed to learn a big lesson and, as a result, they are very passive these days.
We Americans understood the dangers of a big war (Civil War memories) during the Cold War era and it helped save us all from a nuclear holocaust.
What will save Israel and the Palestinians? Knowledge the world will not let either completely destroy the other, but will let them pound on each other endlessly at a very high damage rate might create the experiencial learning needed to back away from war.
The Jewish experience in WWII didn’t seem to affect them in the way it did the peoples guiding countries. As victims in WWII the Jews didn’t have the same leadership history they really needed to lead Israel. Now they’re learning the hard way, but a way most peoples of the world have learned.
War is not the answer when both sides may die.
Well stated Scarecrow.
Surely it would be a positive action to be able to read your stuff and that of several others here at FDL in some of the prime media realestate locations coming out of NYC or DC.
Sadly it is often easy to come across what hacks like Bill Kristol,the Kagans or Joe Lieberman have written. Balance? Whats that?
The near constant use of the terms ‘WestBank’ or ‘Gaza Strip’ or the equally tilted framing terms ‘the Palestinian Territories’ and ‘Israeli settlers/settlements’ are fully illustrative of pre-weighted term and tone use.
Who gets put in the bad guy light and the frequency of this role assignment lighting plainly intended to reveal/outline Israel and Israelis as being the good guys in these ongoing Israel/Israeli versus. “terrorists,mad bombers and mindless,demonic Arab/Muslims” frame-ups and narratives.
Israel surely has a firm and tightly held grip on WashDC politics and American ME policy forms and acts.
This Israeli power in WashDC surely undermines or prevents any attempt however modest to move the viewpoints,range of discussions or to begin/consider any policy reset about/over American policy on Arab Palestine in particular or American ME affairs in general.
Clearly Israels own conduct of occupation and suppression conduct in and of Arab Palestine and the Arab Palestinians remains a woefully under reported,under told or very selective and fully prejudiced presented narrative.
The road ahead points to little improvement.
American Occupation of Iraq seems very much based on Israeli model for Arab Palestine.
Talk of Iran being attacked by Americans is a matter of general comment in American core main media outlets. No “war” has been declared yet an American “attack on Iran” is fully and very openly suggested and discussed.
Were Iran behaving this way about Israel it is certain American cruise missiles/war planes would be soon all in the air and headed into Iran.
Israel just in recent days “secretly attacked” Syria (it was/is not really secret who did what to who)with a not very “secret” air strike. So far the spin seems to be this is perfectly ok for the Israelis to have done to Syria. And Syria or Iran should expect and accept it has being possible and ok Israeli conduct.
The hipocrisy astounds.