As if the GOP dodge and phony show could not get any worse. From MoveOn.org this morning:
This morning the Senate is expected to vote on a resolution condemning MoveOn.org…
This is the same Senate that has done nothing to change President Bush’s policy on Iraq. Yesterday, they couldn’t even pass a bill to give soldiers enough leave with their families before redeploying. But they have plenty of time to crack down on folks who criticize the war. It’s ridiculous, it’s un-American, and it’s wrong….
Why? They’re flailing. Last week’s Bush Administration PR blitz completely failed—the percentage of Americans favoring withdrawal from Iraq actually increased. Meanwhile, vulnerable Republicans are sinking lower and lower in the polls (or announcing their retirement). Bashing our ad is a way to distract the public—and intimidate war critics….
They’re trying to use the full force of the U.S. Senate to shut us all up. To send a message that if you speak unpleasant truths about this war, you’ll pay.This is what we expect from right-wing bullies like Fox, Bill O’Reilly, and Sean Hannity. But the Senate should know better.
Good lord. Yesterday, the majority of the GOP (and their BFF Joe Lieberman [CT-Turncoat]) couldn’t be bothered to stand up for civil liberties, human rights and the Constitution, let alone the decency to support our nation’s soldiers getting an honorable amount of time at home with their families before we ship them off to yet another overseas rotation. Now they turn around and attack MoveOn.org’s right to free speech. How utterly unAmerican.
Call your Senators today and let them know that if they vote for this idiotic, showboat, waste of taxpayer money stunt, they will not get one cent from you. Ever. And that goes double for any Presidential candidates. You can call toll free here (H/T to katymine):
1 (800) 828 – 0498
1 (800) 614 – 2803
1 (866) 340 – 9281
1 (866) 338 – 1015
1 (877) 851 – 6437
Every single Senator needs a call today. You can also find direct dial numbers for each Senator here. And while you are at it, give the DSCC a jingle and let them know that there had better be pressure placed on the entire Democratic caucus not to slap out at their base, because that is exactly what this hollow, idiotic GOP political stunt is designed to do. You can reach the DSCC here: Phone (202) 224-2447 Fax (202) 969-0354.
What in the hell are these people doing debating a print ad in the NYTimes when our soldiers are still being gravely wounded and killed in Iraq? When they don’t have adequate defensive armor, still? When military families are dealing with a crisis of money and exhaustion? When our veterans are not getting even remotely adequate medical and mental health care?
The GOP ought to be ashamed of themselves. This sort of manufactured outrage stunt is exactly what I expect from the Republican party — all hot air, no real work product — but there are larger issues at stake than John Cornyn getting camera face time and Mitch McConnell getting even with MoveOn for softening his already eroding political support.
It is well past time that the GOP was called on this idiocy. Publicly, swiftly and then some. This is not about “protecting our troops,” if it were the GOP would not have stood up yesterday as a rubber stamping pack and refused to allow our troops adequate time between rotations with their families. This is a stunt — pure and simple — designed to whip their base and the lagging Wurlitzer back into a foaming at the mouth frenzy. And they are using our tax dollars to pull it.
Enough is enough.
UPDATE: Rick Perlstein and Jon Soltz have more.
Related posts:
- Why is Carolyn Maloney Wasting Our Time?
- Mandate + No Public Option = Unpopular Taxpayer Bailout of Private Insurance
- Is Blanche Lincoln Against Taxpayer-Funded Insurance for Big Ag, Too?
- Right-Wingers: “Political Correctness” to Blame for Ft. Hood Shootings
- Climate Change: Interior Dept Then and Interior Dept Now
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ha
on my second cuppa
Maybe Rather’s case will shake up the msm
Hello again, Christy…
trois, tres…
Seeing on TPM that the GOP is setting records for filibusters. That is so annoying it’s unbelievable, after all of the “obstructionist” pressure put on Dems up until 11/06. Is there just no way that the media can call these guys out?
I would call, but my phone’s been out for over 24 hours…:(
This is a continuation of the policy of intimidation. Don’t speak out, or you will be punished. Go along, and be a good German, especially while we’re at war, you know.
I called Cornyn’s office and let them know what I thought about them trying to trample my First Amendment rights. I also mentioned I contributed to help run that ad. At that point they hung up on me…
Since Senator Boxturtle is “my” senator, not sure what to say if I call–”Please go F yourself” sounds a bit harsh. Suggestions, anyone?
Well, Christy,
What was it Mark Twain said about horses?
Something about the front end being built somewhat to the west, but the hind end is completed, in vast numbers, in D.C.
It’s important to understand, folks: this is not just an attack on MoveOn.
This is an attack on you. It’s an attack on all the netroots, the progressive base and the anti-war movement. There are Democrats who are secretly willing to align their interests with those of the White House to keep you from gaining power.
Please hit the phones. Don’t let them. This is not just about MoveOn. It’s about all of us. All of us are under direct attack.
Sandia Blanca @ 9
Sounds good to me…:)
I’m not against he MoveOn.org ad. And I will call my senators. But can you see how, in a somewhat perverse way, the ad has been appropriated by MSM and Repug members of Congress as a big distraction?
nonplussed @ 8
Now this kind of thing makes my jaw drop. I assume Cornyn is your Senator? Can your own Senator really have his staff hanging up the phone on you?
Republicans: more concerned about spending Senate time to debate a harmless newspaper ad than they are concerned about protecting our troops.
They block a vote on giving our soldiers adequate time off, and will instead spend time debating a tiny insult.
Republicans: they prioritize war PR over our soliders.
Republicans don’t care about the troops. They care about selling the war and silencing its critics.
Drastic times call for drastic measures.
What sorts of drastic measures could our Senators and Reps do to stop this Iran madness.
Good morning Christy
It seems the Republicans keep mining away, finding new depths of divisive, partisan ignorance.
I noticed last night right before I went to sleep that the Rubber stamps had turned into a brick wall when it comes to passing legislation.You would think that it would be patently obvious at this point that to try and compromise with these thugs is not in your best interest,I’m talking to you Harry.
Make the bastards fillibuster until they are hoarse.
Some pictures from my recent trip down to Santa Barbara:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..coast.html
4,000 volunteers: 1357 signs posted.
One guy with a pickup truck: 1625
It’s also a direct attack on free speech. The Senate should not be in the business of doing this.
Sandia Blanca @ 9
Go ahead, tell him to go F himself or Cheney himself…even better.
NOT One more dime….for this silliness…
There were a couple of diaries over at kos from military who served under Patrieus, it seems he has been called that for years one quoted back to 2003 by the personal who served under him.
Anyone want to bet on Kyl & McCain votes?
How did this even get introduced? Don’t the dems control what comes to the floor?
zhiv @ 5
Yeah, and I’m getting goddamn tired of seeing “the Webb Amendment was defeated 56-44″ on the MSM. Makes it look like the majority was against it. Why not, “the Republican filibuster was upheld by a minority, 56-44?”
nonplussed @ 8
Sounds like it’s time for a LTE to all the papers in Cornyn’s district. If a staffer at an office ever hung up on me, I would be all over the local media, spreading the story. They freaking work for us, and have no g-d damned right to dismiss us and our opinions. They are paid by OUR dollars to answer the phones and listen to us.
Pach @ 11:
I agree with you here. MoveOn.org has always been (for rightists of all stripes) the code-word the appositive, the emblem, the metonymy if you will, of the myriad progressive netroots movement.
Should I waste any electrons on Sens. Lisa Murkowski and Ted Stevens? They’ve not yet changed a single vote due to my protests over the years.
Where were these guys when Tom Delay was criticizing The Clenis™ and his Generals over Bosnia/Kosovo?
Oh silly moi, Tommy Boy is a republican. On a lighter note, have you seen that Petraeus wants to run for President? No, really. Wow, can you imagine the authoritarian cargo cultist worship that would go along with that? Every republican would have to wear Depends so that when they creamed in their jeans it would not show.
I wonder if he (and his republican cronies) would understand that MoveOn might have a few things to say in the media about him then?
ot – Chimp live on msnbc
I just called Levin and Stabenow and thanked both for their votes yesterday and then laid it on them about the MoveOn resolution.
Gad Zooks…this week is the first time I’ve ever called my senators…and now I’ve done it 4 times. They’re going to get to know me!
Ed*ard Teller @ 26
Yup, call ‘em. Just to give them grief!
How idiotic and hypocritical. Senator Durbin and Senator Boxer did a great job throwing the hypocrisy of this effort back in Senator Cornyn’s face last night.
This move smells like Turdblossom is lurking and in action.
Oh, and will any of our guys filibuster this bullshit resolution? Or have they lost their balls completely or are they in a panic about not being invited on Press the Meat or getting to the next A-list cocktail party?
Hey, NRA. When they take away our right to free speech, there’ll be nobody left to protest when they send Blackwater for your guns.
Niemoller Rules.
Nonplussed, this is my take too. I would not take that shit. This would be like having your local school teacher hang up on you, or the Police Dept. Email or call some local papers. And I’d call back and try to get the name of that staffer. Basic accountability for one’s choices. For. Everyone.
Biodun @ 13
Yes. And this is one reason I have wished (for several years) that MoveOn wouldn’t be so provacative in their actions. They sometimes play right into the media frenzy, getting the attention off of the actual ISSUES at hand. All anyone talks about with this situation is “Betray-us”, not the actual substance of criticism for Petraeus’ cherrypicked testimony.
Speaking of distraction, Bush is going on about SCHIP, trying to say that “Congress is trying to put health insurance for poor kids aside for political reasons”. He also said that Congress wants to raise your taxes. Nice. Makes you forget all about those protesting black people in Jena for a few minutes, doesn’t it?
triciawrites @ 2
The MSM went along with it.
Once again:
Free fax online.
Ed*ard Teller @ 26
Oh yeah. Just call up and berate them.
GWB lookin’ hung-over.
Biodun @ 37
I tried that several ways last time and just could not get it to work.
Chimpy on MSNBC – calls dems irresponsible for waiting until last minute to pass the SCHIP bill they know will get vetoed. basically blaming veto on dems.
-if the dems fail, 1 million children could lose healthcare
-current program expires sept 30, they need to pass a bill I (chimp) won’t veto
-”not getting nothing done” (direct quote)
Bush “not getting nothing done”
Been phoning Durbin’s office and each time a message says “due to a high volume of calls, we cannot answer your call, please try again later”. Obama’s office was very receptive as was Harkin’s. Will keep trying Durbin and maybe will phone Cornyn too, just to pile on.
Jane Hamsher @ 19
Yep. The Senate is going to vote against the First Amendment? It boggles the mind.
Carolyn@15
Yes, he is. We have a long & stormy relationship. We have agreed on one single issue in the entire time he has been around, including his time down here in Texas. That was increasing access under FOIA. The man is a Class A dipshit. I will visit his office next time I am downtown and express my extreme displeasure.
Solai @ 22
Good point. How did it come up?
landofthefree @ 24
keep calling Cornyn’s office
Bush:I look forward to working with Congress to change FHA loans. Don’t allow the Congress to raise taxes-I’m optimistic. I got a B in economics, but an A in keeping taxes low.
I must be missing something, but doesnt the leadership have the ability to keep nonsense votes like this (and the Huckleberry “sense of the senate” from yesterday) from ever reaching a vote?
Chimpy on MSNBC – question time:
Q -are we gonna have a recession?
chimp – i am optimistic about economy unless the dems mess it up. dems want to raise taxes.
Q -is there risk of recession?
chimp – I got a B in economics 101, i got an A in keeping taxes low heh heh heh
Jo Fish @ 27
Just think how well the “stabbed in the back” meme will work for Betrayus in 2012!
Hey, Harry!
Hey, Nancy!!
HEY, DEMOCRATS!!!
carmen at 46 — Through a procedural loophole that (this is my guess) Trent Lott knew how to exploit in terms of bringing up amendments. I’m hoping someone inserts a poison pill amendment into it along the lines of condemning Boehner saying that the troop deaths in combat were a “small price to pay” or some such in response.
Asking again: Anyone know?
How did this get introduced? Don’t the dems determine what bills come to the floor?
twolf1 @ 50
to clarify my 35: When I say “I wish MoveOn wasn’t so provacative”, I don’t intend to imply that MoveOn not take on important topics. They should be challenging the WH on how they are manipulating the media and using this General as a human shield from the truth. They should question how forthright he has been. It’s the lightning-rod cheap shots like calling him “Betray-us” that gets the media feeding frenzy focused on the so-called insult, rather than the substance of criticism. You’re handing the media a nutritious meal, and that distracting wilted parsley in the corner is all they will focus on.
Oh, and Bush is now telling us that the economy is strong! Wow, I feel awesome now! Oh, and “he got a B in econ 101″ (I guess in college). Wow, grading on a curve in a really dumb class, perhaps?
katymine @ 40
The fax number has to be properly formatted (with country and area codes):
For example: 1-212-555-1970
twolf1 @ 50
did he really say that? omg
OT and EPU’D on last thread, but wanted to highlight Ghostman’s analysis.
“I’ll throw a few thoughts in…I think they fit in. “Pretend” you’re the Iranian leadership. You have before you the proverbial “win-win” options.
1. your forces ARE supplying/training people to go kill Americans in Iraq. You like this. You DISlike Americans, and so this is a good thing.
2. America responds militarily:
a) you know USA cannot invade. USA can only do airstrikes.
b) you also know USA airstrikes WILL be devastating….but your country WILL survive.It will take 4-5 years to rebuild….but it’s “do-able”.
c) you also know, in event of airstrikes, the citizens WILL rally around you, the leadership. This allows you, the Iranian leadership to further consolidate domestic power….always a good thing.
Thus, as an Iranian leader, you now have the classic win-win. You may continue helping to kill US soldiers. And your only punishment will be an economic set-back of 4-5 years; but with vastly increased power and support from your citizens.
If I’m anywhere near right on this….then the Iranians have boxed us. And we have the “great thinker” Condi & Bush in charge?? I will now slightly throw up in my mouth.”
Ghostman
Chimpy on MSNBC – iran talks of using force on israel, israel is our strong ally. we love the iranian people, not their gov’t. their economy is suffering due to internal and external actions. we will keep the pressure on them.
George the fucking dreamweaver is rambling on and on again.
-GSD
We are talking to various finance ministers about how to send a message to Iran-we must take the Iranian threat seriously, especially when they threaten Israel. We like the Iranian people-it’s their government that won’t work with the world in a responsible way.
Good with the taxpayers money…horse crap. How many billions have been spent.
The real cost$$$ of this war
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq…..19,00.html
Good question David Gregory. Kept digging “no comment”
What is Bush not commenting on?
They did worse than not stand up. It must take quite a lot of organization and phone calls to filibuster. I can clearly remember the letter HoJoe sent us after the failed filibuster on Alito. It said the gang of (14?) had decided to filibuster only under extraordinary circumstances. Now it seems filibustering is the daily routine for Republicans, plus one HoJoe. We are not just lobbying for legislation to pass on the Dem side. We are fighting against the “filibuster.” Who will stand up and embarrass the Repuglicans, plus HoJoe, for their hypocritical use of the filibuster?
landofthefree @ 35
I have to disagree. Move On provides the political cover that allowed Dem Senators (and even a couple of Rep Senators) to ask Petreaus some hard questions.
They also show some spine. I love ‘em.
GSD @ 61
He’s high again.
Snort. Bush mention “Return on Success” again. Wow, hasn’t anyone mentioned to him that this is one of the silliest catch phrases his WH has ever crafted?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 53
So, Tom DeLay was able to stop investigation of the Mariana Islands but the dems can’t stop this bull. I’m getting a little tired of the dems being so bad at playing the game.
Cornyn has actually introduced this ridiculous amendment before. In the “collegial” Senate “any Senator may offer an amendment on the Senate floor, and this often results in a much slower legislative process than that of the House. It is not unusual for a major bill in the Senate (for example, a Defense bill) to contain more than 100 amendments.”
http://www.lymphoma.org/site/p…..;b=1573655
landofthefree @ 69
That shows his economic brilliance. /s
I think I’m gonna puke.
Kathleen @ 64
I missed David’s question. What was it?
GSD @ 61
Note to self: Quit watching this idiot.
Remember what the doc said about the blood pressure.
Chimpy on MSNBC – chimp has no comment on israel bombing syria (i think that was what Gregory asked about)
What Iranian President really said about Israel. Not how the neo-cons interpreted it.
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/05/156102.php
http://www.counterpunch.org/tilley08282006.html
http://www.juancole.com/2006/0…..chens.html
zhiv @ 5
Josh Marshall repeatedly makes this point. Just see today’s Post coverage, where the bill is described as “needing 60 votes to pass”.
The Post, by the way, has better stuff tucked inside, a scathing Milbank piece on John Warner and a little piece that casts a little light on Snowe’s and Collins’ phony moderate votes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02150.html
Bush: There are two types of reconciliation in Iraq: one is passing laws, like an oil-revenue sharing law, election laws, de-Baathification laws, equitable oil-sharing laws. There’s no “instant democracy” because everyone is still recovering from Saddam. Where’s Mandela? Mandela’s dead, ’cause Saddam killed him.
WTF?
I thought about Ghostman’s comments. But of course, we’re only boxed from the chimps perspective. We are not actually required to attack them.
looseheadprop @ 67
You’re right, it’s an Overton window thing.
Christy @ 53
‘Poison pill’?
The d’s?
How high your hopes?
Kathleen @ 63
We are solid middle class and I can say for sure that our taxes HAVE NOT gone down over the past seven years. It is a big, fucking lie.
looseheadprop @ 67
Yes they did provide cover. Moveon. What’s more we shouldn’t condemn the Cindy Sheehans, Murthas(when he was good) and the moveons of the world because the Repuglicans are trying to distract the public from their own criminal messes by making a lot of noise about “the other side.”
I’m proud of this resolution. How DARE MoveOn stick up for the battered wife democrats.
Now I really hate Saddam, He killed Nelson Mandela!
Asshole.
-GSD
Condemning moveon.org? Well, I have an answer for that: F*ck You, Republican scum.
New slogan –
“GOP: Republican before American.”
This is the coverage list for Free fax online.
Are those two of the ugliest faces you’ve ever seen?
Solai at 70 — Tom DeLay was operating in the House. They have very different rules from the Senate. And it was a committee issue and not a bill on the floor of the Senate. Apples and oranges.
I’m ready to buy another full page ad!
There is a “recovery” going on from the brutal dictatorship of Saddam Hussein. Still blaming everyone else for the worst strategic blunder in our history
looseheadprop @ 67
Yes. Agreed.
It would work even better if the dems learned how to play the media cycle. Pivot and Attack. Media training should be compulsory.
What on EARTH is he talking about?
“Mandela is dead, because, Saddam Hussein killed all the Mandelas”.
Wow. Just wow.
His body language is really, really weird. I backed up to see if I caught this correctly, and it was very interesting to see his body language. I don’t want to get all Fristy, but he does not look right.
“No comment” twice on Israel’s actions. Shut it down, par for the course. NO ISRAELI LOBBY HERE
Biodun:
Do you really think the public is supportive of this Senate spectacle, particularly in the wake of them obstructing Webb’s amendment? It’s reminiscent of nothing so much as Schiavo. Think about what you’re saying. You’re getting too meta.
Gouch Potato at 93 — If I had a nickel for every time I’ve said that…SIGH
RonD @ 78
Totally, full-goose gone-zo.
He’s hung over and surly. Next question needs to be – “When’s the last time you had a psychiatric consultation? And would you promise the American people that you’ll get one? Soon? Cross your heart?”
W has big bags under his eyes. Must be all that cryin’.
Chimpy on MSNBC – asked about Jena LA protests – also about noose found on campus in DC. is the state of race relations deteriorating in the country – specifically in your party.
chimp – we need to reach out to minorities. the doj and fbi r monitoring the situation down there. we have a good record to run on, my advice to our candidate would be to run on it (almost mumbling, very hurried to get to next question)
bonkers @ 16
Impeachment of Cheney and Bush would be a good start.
Fuck’m..$250 to MoveOn
Bush has no concept of “Fairness”! He also has eyes just like a Boa Constrictor I once cared for (I’m such a sucker for any rescue animal!)
David Gregory asked the toughest question twice about Israel’s pre-meptive bombing of a Syrian target. “no comment” Shut it down.
Bush: I understand why NYPD doesn’t want Ahmedinajad at ground zero-I do not comment on decisions by the Fed. The worse decision Congress could make is to raise taxes-we can have a balanced budget by 2012 without raising taxes.
Chimpy on MSNBC – what do u say to those who criticize u for not speaking out on Jena LA.
-I just spoke out on it.
Kathleen — You know, the “Israeli” lobby is not a monolithic one. You’d be more accurate to say the neocon lobby there. There are a lot of Israeli political groups working toward peace, reconciliation and such — just because they don’t get a lot of media play in this country doesn’t mean they don’t exist and that they don’t deserve our support. And denegrating all of Israel as a monolithic entity is insulting for the progressive caucuses there and here who support change in policies. I’m just saying…
landofthefree @ 94
WTF?????? What connection does Hussein have with Nelson Mandela?
Dee @ 101
The Republicans could trump the Democrats if they were to push for Impeachment first, they could flip the next election. I really believe this
So can anyone explain why the Republicans, who are the minority party, are in charge of what Congress is doing? Without, apparently, being held responsible for their actions and inactions?
Because if that’s the way Harry and Nancy are going to be doing things, they need to provide reasons for us, the public, so we can vote people out or demand resignations – and it looks like that will be most of Congress, at this point.
Wimpy Democrats. Again.
Can’t this issue just be blocked by Democrats? I thought that’s what a majority was good for.
mui @ 66
Can someone refresh my memory as to the members of the “Gang of 14?.”
I think a barrage of letters to each of those members (cc’d to multiple newspapers) asking why it was “wrong” for Democrats to filibuster, but it’s okay for obstructionist Republicans to set new records in filibustering. (I believe there’s a link to that story on a previous thread.)
Kathleen @ 95
Bush said “no comment” on Israeli actions and you’re attributing that to the Lobby? You’re confusing cause and effect here. You’re implication seems to be that Bush and Cheney might have reasonable policies but for the Lobby.
Called Crapo, left a message for all the good it will do me. Told him it was about free speech, and he shouldn’t vote against it.
Too bad they didn’t find him in the bathroom with Craig.
I’m watching a man who wouldn’t recognize reality if it kicked him in the fuckin’ head…
Chimpy on MSNBC – do u feel betrayed by the likes of rummy and greenspan?
-my feelings are not hurt. u r selective in quoting rummy. i respect rummy and greeny. i respectfully disagree with greeny when he says we didnt handle fiscal deficit well. we dealt w/ recession, corp scandals and terra attack with tax cuts. the tax cuts worked, the economy is doing great. i’m a supply-side guy. we r fighting a war at the same time we r headed towards fiscal balance. blah blah blah unfunded liabilities blah blah. reform social sec – not giving up on entitlement reform. i thought it was time to come together a couple years ago.
Just called Box Turtle’s DC office and told the young lady who answered that I am a constituent and asked if he didn’t have a few more important tasks than trying to undermine the First Amendment with his resolution against the MoveOn.org ad. She said she would relay my frustrations to the senator. She sounded a bit tired and resigned to the phone calls.
LS @ 99
X*n*x.
Steve-AR @ 102
Now I feel cheap. $25 from me.
But, my motivation was the same.
Bush: we dealt with a terrorist attack, a recession, and corporate scandals-and we did it by cutting taxes. I’m a supply-sider. Greenspan and I spent a long time talking about unfunded liabilities, which young people are paying into even though they’re going broke. The problem is entitlement programs, not tax cuts.
landofthefree @ 94
One of my friends says that watching him without sound, you might as well be watching a cooking show, because his expression and gestures are about that meaningful (and about that connected to what he thinks he’s saying).
SufiLizard says
September 20th, 2007 at 8:07 am
OT – hey I left you a comment downstairs.
This man is totally disconnected form reality. We do have a problem that needs to be solved now- RESIGN W and take the rest of your administration with you! Supply side economics has been thoroughly repudiated!
Again, I was not suggesting that MoveOn back off. I agree completely that they are an important voice and need to use it. My point is that they should know by now that using something like “General Betray-us” is just handing the RWNM a bone. The media will leap to focus on the so-called “insult” and not stay focused on the legitimate criticisms in the ad. Some may feel differently – that a big media frenzy brings the topic into the consciousness of most Americans. However, the veracity and completeness of his report was questioned in the media ahead of time. People were skeptical. Now, in my opinion, this ad has put the focus on “mean liberals” and off of “WH handpicking generals who will be nonpolitical in their military assessments”.
MoveOn could have kept the focus on the latter.
Just spoke to Leahy and Sander’s offices. The staffer at Bernie Sanders’ office said they’d been getting many calls.
I spoke about the resolution to condemn Moveon, also yesterday’s vote for cloture on Webb’s amendment; and I also mentioned my growing concern that there was a gathering drumbeat of war with Iran, yet another round of hysteria based on fabricated information and parroted GOP talking points.
Staffer said many calls on all three of these topics; almost all in the same “spirit of agreement” with mine.
Just called my Senators in Ohio. I expressed that this was a terrible waste of tax dollars, time and citizen rights. While at the UN in Geneva, one the the greatest ideals stated to me over and over from other country represenatives was: the existence of free speech and openess in the US which allows self-criticsm from the citizens without fear of punishment. Many would state it was the foundational ideal of our freedom and the root to build and model democracy on in other countries.
There goes our model!
FYI:
Free fax online works for me. If it doesn’t work for you, there may be software and/or server issues. (If so, apologies.) Full info on the site. Just click Client Software and/or Server Software.
I called my senators, for all the good it will do. I will get a form letter in a couple weeks after I’ve forgotten on which subject it is in response to.
I told them that I am a military officer and I work with a general. I know, as does any normal human being, that generals are NOT gods. Some think they are but they are not. They can be, and often are, big-assed jerks and limp-dick cover-my-ass type people like anyone else. They are NOT sacred beings. They are NOT beyond reproach. That the 1st Amendment always applies and is specifically intended to protect otherwise “unpopular” speech. Suck it up and live with that and get back to important work.
Kathleen @ 95
This comment applies to the I-lobby and to Israel not wanting the President to discuss the pre-emtpive actions of Israel against Syria.
Bush: People deeply concerned about poverty, like me, need to understand that the best way out of poverty is free-trade agreements.
Mandela’s not dead is he? What did W mean?
Solai @ 119
It’s not the $$$, is the sign of support..Send $1 and join..
Chimpy on MSNBC – the best way to help people out of poverty is free trade agreements. we’re committed to reach accord with nations. worried about isolationism, it runs hand in hand with protectionism. US working w/ other nations to promote liberty. 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11!!!!1!!1!!
CHS I have supported Jewish and Israeli groups who have been pushing for fair and balanced US policies for 25 years. I hope you do the same
OT – NPR running a Jena, LA story right now. May be the first time I’ve heard them run a story on this. Have we done a Jena thread?
P J Evans @ 110
This is part and parcel to why I have irrevocably left the Democrapic party. The GOP in the minority has just as much power and control as they had in the majority…and it is all because that is what the Democraps want and allow. They stand for nothing. Will fight for nothing. Care about nothing but their own paychecks and retirement benefits.
They can all go to hell. I’m voting 3rd party all the way.
Bush: I am a strong asset to Republicans running next year.
Chimpy on MSNBC – Q – for goopers seeking reelection next year, are you a liability or an asset?
chimp – a strong asset! candidates that say we aren’t gonna raise your taxes are gonna do well.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 107
I’m repeating myself, but this is false, or, more charitably, wishful thinking. Peace parties are in the minority in Israel, which has recently elected Ariel Sharon and now Olmert, who is not only a warmonger but an American stooge.
There IS a monolithic lobby. It is an essential asset of the Israeli state, whether its government is a hawkish one or a dovish one (when was the last dovish one, by the way).
That said, it’s not for me to judge whether successive Israeli governments are correctly appraising their national interest. What is clear, though, — to me and you and everyone else — is that they’re not currently in line with ours.
I’m waiting for the day when somebody just puts a net over his head; or at least escorts him gently but firmly off stage, hands gripping each elbow and someone saying “Sir, step away from the microphone now. Step this way sir” straight to the rubber room.
But frankly? I hope that doesn’t happen cuz I don’t want anything to interfere with his destiny at the Hague.
landofthefree at 123 — You think the GOP wouldn’t hve seized on some other aspect of the ad to manufacture faux outrage out of thin air as a shiny object distraction from the Bush Administration failures? The Betray-Us portion of the ad was pulled directly from what the man’s own subordinates and military colleagues call him. That sort of ad is designed specifically to push the edge of the envelope precisely because it needed to be done.
If it hadn’t been that, it would have been something else ginned up and used as a distraction. The MoveOn ad just happened to get selected as the Rovian target of the month. Wise up — they do this each and every time they want a distraction. Why do you think O’Reilly attacked Jane the other day? Not because he accurately portrayed what she said — but because they needed to keep this distraction going so the 30 percent of the idiots who still find Bush viable would keep on keeping on. They have to give the rabble something to hate — it’s how they work.
Whether or not it is an accurate or even honest reason is beside the point. And if they have to invent shit, they do. This has nothing to do with anything MoveOn said — and everything to do with how the GOP wurlitzer makes distractions up out of thin air if they have to to keep themselves from ever being held accountable for their failures.
Bush: I remind people he has a Phd, and I was a C student, and look who’s the adviser and who’s the President.
Chimpy on MSNBC – if there is a tax increase on cigarettes to help fund SCHIPS, is that a tax increase you won’t oppose?
-shorter chimp – no. i’m gonna veto the bill
CHS it would be more constructive to focus on the “why” President Bush would not comment on Israel’s actions in regard to Syria. What do you think?
brendan @ 96
I’m not sure what you’re referring to. What did I say where?
(See my comment @ 44.)
RonD @ 130
That and mountaintop removal mining.
What a pack of giggling whores.
The media, not the fine folks at FDL.
-GSD
hackworth @ 145
How soon we forget.
twolf1 @ 138
And the whole press pool bursts into laughter!
“When extremists kill innocent people in order to undermine democracies”….I guess he’s talking about Blackwater!
Toby Wallin – I think he was trying to say that people are wondering when democracy will rise in Iraq, and “someone asked ‘where’s Mandela’ ” in reference to Iraq. That’s where the Mandela riff came from. Really, really weird, when you think about it a little more. He’s saying that Saddam Hussein killed all of the Mandelas of Iraq, and that’s why we had to kill him.
Um. Yeah.
He’s taking every opportunity to bring up the evils of Saddam and “the guys who got on planes and killed nearly 3000 of our people and children”. Oh, if I were in that room, I would not be giggling and chuckling like those reporters are. It is just so revolting. I cannot believe this man is the leader of any country.
Biodun:
I was responding to your @13. Who cares, though — this Kurdistan line of investigation was more interesting.
Chimpy on MSNBC – terra! terra! extremists! i feel passionately about for the US to recognize what the ME would be like if terraists has safe haven. a US defeat would embolden terraists. iraq goals still the same, we havent achieved them yet, but we still need to. extremists and radicals. defeat the crowd that attacked us on 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11
LS @ 150
He must be :)
Brendan — You and I both know that there is a vast difference between saying “Israelis” and “the current Israeli government.” And as I am the one who gets the tons of e-mail asking why people on this website hate Jews who want there to be peace and are working for it, and why no one ever mentions and or thanks them for this work or even seems to recognize that it exists in their “Israeli” comments, I’ll ask people to be clear when I think it is necessary and productive, thank you very much.
landofthefree @ 123
And the more that the VRWC whines about “Betray-us” the more it reinforces that the troops have been betrayed. Just like the studies have shown that by repeating the lie to refute it just reinforces the lie so that people believe it IS the truth.
Defend Rep Moran
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/19/14364/2409
RonD @ 137
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh, my. Thanks for the laugh. I needed that (wiping tears from eyes).
all tapes of this news conference need to be confiscated immediately – before it is shown to the rest of the world.
This man’s obvious derangement and lack of contact with reality could well be considered a threat to national security.
Blackwater: “I’m saddened”…”innocent lives were lost” “I want to find out the facts”
Blackwater question.
Bush: I’ll talk to Maliki about it. Folks like Blackwater are covered by certain rules, and the commission will determine the facts. I’m saddened by loss of innocent life. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families.
Richard Wolffe bringing up the Hunt Oil deal with the Kurds.
-GSD
landofthefree @ 56
Would be veddddy interesting to find out if this were actually true…….if someone had the capability to access that information.
Who was the asswipe that gave Bush the Jeff Gannon set-up on the Moveon ad.
-GSD
Christy Hardin Smith @ 155
And many of the people who define discussing the I/P issue as “hating Jews” are often the people who have been successful at shutting this critical discussion down.
Bush: Moveon’s ad is an attack on the military. Most Dems are afraid of irritating a left-wing organization, than they are of irritating the US military.
Chimpy on MSNBC – hunt oil, your buddies, signed deal w/ kurdish region to drill there. does it undermine iraq oil revenur sharing
chimp – i knew nothing about the deal
Q – your reaction to moveon ad?
chimp – i thought ad was disgusting. it was an attack on david and the US military. i was disappointed that dems didn’t speak out strongly about that ad. most dems are afraid of irritating a left wing group like moveon than they are of irritating us military. it was a sorry deal. its one thing to attack me, but to attack a man like gen patty!!!
Bush: I thought the Betray-us ad was a disgusting attack on our military, which leads me to this conclusion: most democrats are more afraid of Moveon than they are the US military.
Unasked question: SHOULD Democrats be afraid of the US military?
GWB – “Thank you for your time.”
me: thank you for leaving.
Christy at 141: I understand what you are saying. My point is, why make an easy target for the right-wingers and MSM to jump on? Using a little name calling makes it very easy for the right wing noise machine to add to their characterization of “the angry, meanspirited left”. It plays exactly into their meme about how we are childish.
Of course, they’ll find something else to whine about, to use as a distraction. I just don’t think we should make it that easy for them.
twolf1 @ 167
Thanks twolf for the liveblogging. I wanna kick bush in the nuts…figuratively speaking, of course.
RonD @ 78
Was that a direct quote? Saddam killed Madella? Huh?
100 buckaroos to MoveOn
to GOP: just keep it up, you worthless pricks
really sorry to hear about Mandela
always thought highly of him
RIP
Was that a direct quote? Saddam killed Madella? Huh?
Yup.
Does Bush think Nelson Mandela is dead? Is he speaking of another Mandela? What is Mandela?
CHS @ 141:
I have to agree with you here. My own point @ 13 was that the ad provided that opportunity for distraction. That’s why I used the word “perverse.”)
Does Bush know something we don’t know? That was an insane statement.
twolf1 @ 167
Interesting juxtaposition. Blackwater, too. Bush is in the dark on the important stuff, but up to snuff on opposition ads.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 141
Absolutely Christy. Absolutely! Also, this will backfire on Dems who vote for it. Maybe this was noted earlier, but can’t the leadership prevent this from coming to a vote if they want.
Methinks HRC’s folks have taken the phones off the hooks. Pleasant call with Schumer’s staff though. Now for re-dial. Go get em pups.
Brendan excellent point.
So what is the explanation as to why Bush would not even touch the questions about Israel and the pre-emptive military action in Syria. Why “no comment”?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 155
How could I be any clearer than saying “There IS a monolithic Israel lobby”? Even if there’s ever another Rabin heading the Israeli state, it will still be in that government’s Israel to have a more hawkish lobby in the U.S., if only to play bad cop.
You know for my past comments that I can appreciate the difficulty the subject presents for you and how the site is perceived. But I was making a comment about the relations of the two states. As I said, sincerely, I’m not in a position to judge whether Israelis policy for the past two decaded is ultimately in its citizens’ interests — enough of them evidently do. I’m sorry I don’t have the inclination to praise the failed efforts of Israeli peace activists, as much as they deserve it. But faulting me for that is like someone scolding me for not talking about all the “good” Americans as we go on pulverizing Iraq and planning the next hecatomb in Iran.
Really, your comments didn’t address my point about Israel’s (legitimate) need for a strong lobby.
Waccamaw @ 163
what he earned v what he paid for
dakine01 @ 157
True, but it is a double-edged sword. Bush is able to land a few points when he can easily morph the MoveOn ad as “saying the troops are betraying us”. It’s totally incorrect, but there are people that will eat it up.
I’ll stop on the topic by just reiterating that, in my opinion, it helps put emphasis on “childish liberals shouldn’t be taken seriously”. Sure, the Cornyn action, especially after blocking the Webb amendment, makes it clear that the Republicans are ridiculous whiners and care more about protecting the PR machine than protecting our troops. I suppose everyone scores some points, because it’s being talked about a lot in the media, keeping the focus on the war when Bush would like to get attention away from it. Perhaps, it also reminds people that they should be very skeptical as the war drums are beaten in the direction of Iran.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 107
I’ll stick up for both Christy and Kathleen here. We need better definitions in this arena. We can’t even use the specific term or abbreviation for the lobbying group Kathleen really means, without having our comments lost for ten to forty minutes in moderation.
On Monday, WaPo ran a hit piece, allegedly directed against Rep. Jim Moran (Dem. VA) for Moran’s comments at the end of an article by Michael Lerner about the new Walt and Mearsheimer book titled the same as the term to which Christy objects. But Marc Fisher’s hit piece, full of some outrageous distortions, is really an attack against the alternative, rational pro-Israeli groups to which Christy alludes.
To get this subject on topic, the lobby to which Kathleen refers is pushing hard behind the scenes to get a similar “sense of the House” resolution against Moran for his comments to which I refer in the lower link above. Again, this would also be an attack on the emerging lobby to which Christy refers and in which many of us hold our hopes.
The guy to ask here to explain all this is Philip Weiss, who has been forced out of jobs at the NY Observer and The Nation by the lobbying group to which Kathleen refers.
Christy @ 8:14 -
Amen, sister!
dan_ps @ 87
Wow…I like that a lot!
Kathleen @ 181
Because we’re acting in concert. That’s what I meant by saying you’re “confusing cause and effect”. That’s what I meant by calling Olmert an “American stooge”.
has the vote come up yet? i just turned on c-span2.
RonD @ 137
No question – he’s on drugs. Resperdal perhaps? Some other psychotropic? Damn, he’s delusional – will he start seeing aliens next?
Tweety: …whichever Republican candidate faces Hillary Clinton in the general election…
LHP, the Bush/Mandela statement was indeed a quote.
Elliott @ 183
Over on HuffPo they’re saying his transcripts say C-
Toby Wollin @ 190
That was Bush’s tried-and-true tactic of getting a big laugh from the press corps, getting them to lighten up and giggle for a moment or two so they’ll stop asking him the hard questions. It works every time. You’d think the media would have learned by now.
Bush needs to resign before he does more damage to this country. He’s completely off his rocker. And thinking otherwise is simply being an ostrich.
Ed*ard Teller @185:
Thanks for this excellent point I neglected to make: there are no agreed on terms for the subject, and the obscurely named “neoconservatives” would like to keep it that way.
I’m glad you mentioned the piece on Moran (Colbert King was evidently doing a little favor for Hiatt, a la Richard Cohen). Moran’s recent quote should not have been controversial (a statement to the effect that A*PAC is rich, influential, and harmful — but doesn’t represent American Jews). It was a great improvement over the very inappropriate, and, frankly, prejudiced comment he made a few years ago implying that American Jews had some special responsiblity to prevent the war (implying they bore collective responsibility for the lobby that acts in their and Israel’s name).
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
Sent this on a postcard to Senator Whiny-Bitch last night:
Thanks for NOTHING, Senator. Your vote on the Webb Amendment shows that you don’t give a damn about our troops’ welfare.
You care more about the ego of the idiot in the White House than your constituents.
3,788 US soldiers have died in Iraq — AND THEIR BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS.
I called his office this morning and told his staffer, “Leave Move-On alone, I paid good money to see that ad run. The Senate has more important things to do. And Shame on the Senator for not voting FOR the Webb Amendment.”
So instead of asking why Bush said “no comment” on the question asked about Israel’s pre-emptive strike on Syria…the issue at FDL becomes whether the Israeli lobby is a “monolithic one”.
Instead of why Bush refused to touch the question that David Gregory asked him about Israel’s actions.
Is Lakoff advising moveon.org? If he is, it explains part of the very hard push-back. Frankly, from what I can tell, the DINOs fear Lakoff’s growing influence among progressive circles even more than do the GOPers.
I agree with every point CHS, Jane and Pachacutec made above and I also think the senators who fail to grasp all of that, including the actual Betrayal, are at best enabling the Betrayal and the big lie to continue unabated. This MoveOn ad is a gift that just keeps on giving, and now provides a ridiculous debate/ vote which is an opportunity to separate the liars from the truth tellers.
The Mandela comment is getting legs:
http://time-blog.com/swampland….._dead.html
CONYERS is pushing Contempt of Congress charges against the White House and Harriet Miers
I just got this in my email:
Ed*ard Teller @ 185:
That’s also the same lobby (the one to which Kathleen refers) that’s been after Tony Judt and Norman Finkelstein.
And by the way CHS I am one of the ONLY people to link to Jewish Peace groups.
moderator:
Any reason my friendly response to Ed*ard Teller @185 was held up? The dread acronym?
~~~Hard Refresh Now.~~~
kdh22 @ 192
Did that go up *after* he claimed a “B”?
so far, 3 calls to senator kerry’s office – no answer
2 calls to senator kennedy’s office – line is busy
i hope they are getting hammered from constituents
Waccamaw @ 206
Don’t know for sure, but that makes sense.
Boxer bringing up the fact that Zinni and Baptiste have both been called traitors because they opposed the war, etc. Yay!!
Something is seriously wrong if the US Senate votes against the First Amendment of the US Constitution. Am I the only one thinking this? Should I have my head examined? (As brendan said: I do tend sometimes toward the meta. No snark here.)
Eureka Springs @ 200
well said & right on
Biodun @ 194
Well, as long as being “off his rocker” means being a marginally insane sociopathic psychopathic megalomaniac, I agree…
Biodun @ 202
Norman Finkelstein did not get tenure and resigned. He has been taken out for now. I hope he goes on tour talking on college campuses about the issue. Although Campus Watch would put up a fight like they did when Carter started going to campuses.
Finkelstein is one of my heroes. So brave!
Protesters on MSNBC…at OJ’s house in Miami..holding up signs like,” OJ killed 2-Bush killed thousands”…”You’re missing the real story-Iraq”…”Honk to Impeach”…
and others.
Hell Yes.
Biodun @ 210
Didn’t they just vote against the 4th yesterday? You’re not crazy, Biodun, unless, of course, you think Saddam killed Mandela.
Called both my senators – had to stay on hold for awhile at Levin’s office, hope he’s getting hammered with calls on several fronts.
Biodun @ 209
No, I agree completely. Something IS wrong.
My fax to Craig suggested that he might consider reading the Constitution while this farce was going on, instead of participating in it.
Kathleen @ 196
sorry “pre-emptive strike on Syria” [Mod: fixed]
Re: MoveOn, from my Senator’s office just now: The Senate Republicans tried to do something on it last week but failed and now they are trying to amend the defense appropriations bill. Jeff won’t be supporting it. As I recall they brought it up as part of morning business last week and were stopped and they should be stopped again today, no only because it’s a transparent political stunt but also because it has no place being in the defense appropriations bill. This is just the Republican folks trying to keep their base energized. In any case, we can’t stop the minority from proposing ridiculous ideas, grandstanding or making fools of themselves.
RonD @ 213
Yes
HRC direct line works better.
202-224-4451
Free Speech!
Biodun @ 202
and Juan Cole and Amy Goodman and Edwin Cherinsky and now – Prof. William Drake at the University of Montana.
They are also the lobbying group which has repeatly refused to condemn this sickening web site. I’m sure many of us can spot some friends on it.
corker’s been called; alexander’s line is busy. i hope it is due to an overwhelming number of calls regarding this pathetic cornyn amendment. i’ll be calling until i get through (for whatever good it does.)
I can’t believe we have to free our speech
kdh22 @ 207
Bush got grades of 71 and 72 in Econ. In the ’60’s, before the era of grade inflation that would be a “D” grade.
On “Petraeus wants to run for president in 2012″ … that’s GOOD NEWS. Meaning the troops better be back by 2011.
Oh, and if the Senate does speak out against the MoveOn ad, here’s your next slogan : “No Habeas Corpus and no Free Speech. The Terrorists Won.”
kdh22 @ 215
Oh I’m sorry. Habeas is in the body of the Constitution, not an amendment. How stupid of me.
HOW STUPID OF THOSE A$$HOLES TO VOTE AGAINST THAT WHICH THE FOUNDERS THOUGHT SO IMPORTANT AS TO INCLUDE IT IN THE MAIN BODY OF THE CONSTITUTION. [rant over]
Edward Teller @185:
Anyway, my point, which vanished into the ether, that Moran’s comments were accurate and judicious this time around:
“(A*P*C) has pushed this war from the beginning . . . They are so well organized, and their members are extraordinarily powerful — most of them are quite wealthy — they have been able to exert power” while Colbert King despicably omitted Moran’s comment to the effect that the lobby doesn’t represent American Jews, whose voters have overwhelmingly opposed the war.
I also wanted to say that Moran made a comment on the subject a couple years ago that was inappropriate for a Congressman and, frankly, prejudiced, when he said: “If it were not for the strong support of the Jewish community for this war with Iraq, we would not be doing this.” Not stopping there, he added, “The leaders of the Jewish community are influential enough that they could change the direction of where this is going, and I think they should.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..inionsbox1
So Saddam kilt Nelson Mandela?
Time for the rubber room.
Kathleen @ 213
I know Norm personally. I know too well his travails for years. In the early 1990s, when I was senior editor at the University of Minnesta Press, I published his book on Israel and Palestine and the commodification of the Holocaust by certain, shall we say, entities. Really controversial stuff.
kdh22 @ 227
Nice rant!
Why does the GOP hate democracy?
I so fed up with the attacks on free speech, silencing the rest of the country that doesn’t agree with you.
Where oh where was the coverage of the 100,000 plus demonstration at DC? Talk about a great visual for TV and the only place I could find out anything about it was on the Toobz.
I am so fed up with their howling about the hate America crowd when THEY are the ones dismantling every piece that makes the USA great. I LOVE AMERICA, FREE SPEECH, RULE OF LAWS (NOT BUSH), REPRESENTATION.
Where is that country? Where did it go? When did I emigrate to Bush in Wonderland?
I am so fed up with these drooling idiots and their Congress Clique running things.
Vote them the F*CK OUT!
I wonder who the enterprising reporter is that will get the quote from Nelson Mandela on this.
Correx to my 210:
Something is seriously wrong if the US Senate votes against the First Amendment of the US Constitution. [Mod: fixed]
shorter Cornyn:
four star generals’ egos working for Bush are more important than free speech.
Cornyn: Boxer’s amendment is a figleaf…then he goes on to say, “Most figleafs (that is what he said) are to cover up the “shame” of the body”.
There we have it. Repubs are so f’d up.
Steve Ar thanks for the heads up on Sidney Blumenthals latest
http://www.salon.com/opinion/b…..sh_draper/
It just proves that whether it’s a Republican or a Democrat controlled Congress, they both are a party of one bought by the Corporations. We no longer are “We the People,” now known as US Consumers. See how that works! Must do my civic duty and participate as GWB said, “Go shopping,” keep the economy running, and subsidize Corporate Welfare.
dakine01 @ 232
This is what I’m wondering-has someone told Mandela he’s dead, killed by Saddam?
I want to see his face when they tell him.
OT corruption hearing
House Armed Services Committee
Thursday, September 20, 2007 – 11:30 am – 2118 Rayburn – Open
The full committee will meet to receive testimony on Accountability During Contingency Operations: Preventing and Fighting Corruption in Contracting and Establishing and Maintaining Appropriate Controls on Materiel.
Witnesses:
Mr. Thomas F. Gimble
Principal Deputy Inspector General
Department of Defense
Mr. Shay Assad
Director
Defense Procurement and Acquisition Policy and Strategic Sourcing
Department of Defense
Lieutenant General N. Ross Thompson, USA
Military Deputy to the Assistant Secretary of the Army for Acquisition, Logistics, and Technology
Ms. Kathryn Condon
Executive Deputy to the Commanding General
Army Materiel Command
Mr. Peter Velz
Foreign Affairs Special*st for Iraq
Office of the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Middle East
Office of the Secretary of Defense
audiocast link
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
dakine01 @ 233
“Reports of my death are at this point premature”
Biodun:
Bravo for you. I read that book. It sickens me that it was called “controversial”, not to mention the fact that he was subsequently libelled as a “holocaust denier”, when the book never addressed in even a single word the historical record on the holocaust.
The Republicans have got nothing. They are barnkrupt. They have a failed President and a failed war. So what else can they do but whine about an ad?
The Republicans are always so transparent. They always blame others for what they are doing. Cornyn just did it. Distraction, misdirection, and change the subject. They accuse MoveOn of calling names and personal attacks: something they have done with no compunction for years.
RonD @ 239
I won’t be surprised if he has something pointed yet highly entertaining to say.
Ed*ard Teller @ 222
OMG!!!
I am applauding Boxer and Levin bringing it and sticking it to cornyn. what a jerk.
LS @ 236
Must be why they have so many “tapping” issues.
Biodun @ 229
Would he come for a visit to FDL? He is so f-ing amazing. I read almost everything he writes and says.
what was the matter with my post?
~~~Hard refresh now.~~~
Bustednuckles @ 229
No, it was in the library with the candlestick.
What they need is to let this resolution go forward with 50 votes, but it must have a companion (just like McCain got yesterday) that is also only 50 votes and it condemns the Administration’s Incompetence in the Occupation of Iraq. Now that would be a fair trade – even if coward Democrats caved and voted for condemning MoveOn , we would still have a vote condemning the White House. Since that will never happen this would be the last we hear on condemning MoveOn.
Hugh @ 241
Hugh, my registered Republican spouse (who will tell you he’s waiting for the party to come back to him) goes ballistic over this. He opposed this war from BEFORE the invasion, and he’s been called a traitor, and a terrorist sympathizer, and all that other crap we’ve all been called. He can’t believe that “his” party is doing this.
GO BOXER…Has anyone read or linked the Boxer amendment?
Biodun @ 244
That web site punched my inner child.
Bustedknuckles @ 229
Hey, spannerman!
Only if it’s noticed.
‘Little georgie has wixed his mords up, again.
Aww, how cute!’
Just to reiterate:
John Cornyn introduced this amendment. He’s taken shitloads of money from Bob Perry, the Texan homebuilding magnate who was the biggest financial backer for the Swift Boat smear artists.
John Cornyn is, of course, a regular contender for the Dumbest Fucking Current Senator. He is an haughty shit who is as stupid as he is arrogant. That he’s also a complete fucking hypocrite who sucks on the teat of Texan millionaire smear merchants just makes me despise him a little more.
(((((Mods!)))))
Kathleen @ 252
Not to my knowledge. Linky, please, linky!
Can everyone please remember to do a full page refresh so that comments that have gotten stuck can be seen? ET, I love you, but comments NEVER get stuck for 10 to 40 minutes. That’s just hogwash. Two or three minutes, tops, and that’s when I’m grabbing the world’s fastest shower and we still have one or two other mods freeing things up.
Cornyn up on CSPAN2, slamming MoveOn. Too much venom om both sides. I dislike it as much as my friends on the other side. The fact that we didn’t condemn misleading ads in 2004 doesn’t mean we shouldn’t condemn this.
oh man, I’m posting this right about when a new thread appears so I’m gonna have to repost it again
I just got an email from my friedn john conyers…I haven’t met him personally but he did say he’s my friend and I believe it
anyway, this is a nice read
Bustednuckles @ 229
… hoping this goes through now ...
According to BushCo, Chalabi was supposed to be Iraq’s Mandela, IIRC.
Kathleen @ 213
And the wife of the President of Brandeis moved against free speech vis-a-vis Jimmy Carter and an engagement on campus for similar reasons. He is one of my heros.
Biodun @ 244
Disgusting….creepy. Surprised they have not put Amy Goodman on that twisted list.
SufiLizard @ 112
I believe those “moderates” included HoJoe, Salzar, Pryor. Oh screw it. Here’s the Wikipedia entry. And I agree with the barrage of letters part. The Republikans have basically found a way to obstruct the wishes of the voting public with the filibuster.
Inhofe says Petraeus is not just a normal person. OMFG!
Prairie Sunshine @ 247
Cornyn’s reference lends great credence to the theory that they’re all drinking the the koolaid.
What in the hell is wrong with these people?
brendan @ 241
Norm’s parents were Holocaust survivors!
RonD @ 259
What was misleading about the Petraeus ad?
Petroclli @ 262
if that’s really the explanation, I’m lamo
Biodun @ 245
Ditto. It’s a hitlist against free speech, and against those working for peace. I have read the article about the I*rael Lobby, but this is far worse than I thought.
perris at 261 — DO NOT repost that in the live chat thread. I mean it. No off-topic, lengthy screed stuff in a guest thread. I’m working on little enough sleep today as it is…
Wonder if MOVEON has been raising more $$ and getting more participants from this?
Have any of our Reps pushed for funds for the 4 million Iraqi refugees?
Don’t any of these people remember Voltaire?
“I don’t agree with what you say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.”
The Enlightenment. I think it’s safe to say that wave has broken.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 259
Mileage may vary. Since I post a lot at late late night, I get awful mileage. My longest is six-plus hours. BTW, {{{{I love Suzanne!}}}}
Are they voting on the Cornyn or Boxer amendment?
I think Cornyn and the Repubs are much more upset about the “cooking the books for Bush” line than whether Petraeus was insulted.
Dear Texans:
John Cornyn. Why?
Really, there are lots of dumb Senators, but there are few like him, convinced of their own genius.
Petroclli @ 262
Oh that’s even worse… Chalabi??? for fuck’s sake! I give up. I’m going to start drinking right now!
Petroclli @ 261
And Chalabi is also alive. So this makes no sense even if interpreted in BushCo terms.
RonD @ 275
Remember, are you kidding? You have to know something before you can remember it.
My outrage at Republikan moral turpitude has reached post-Alito failed filibuster proportions after yesterday.
RockPaperScizzors @ 238
Ain’t it the truth. Considering the trends in SCOTUS opinions in the last few years, the only truly free speech is corporate speech. The worst decision in my memory is when they said money equals speech.
pseudonymous in nc @ 255
do-si-do @ 265
I have to say that Inhofe (my senator, unfortunately) has to be the dumbest fucking Senator – but Cornyn can be runner-up. ;)
Kathleen @ 264
She’s there, in the clutter. The page I linked to is only the people whose names begin with “F.” Scroll down to the alphabet and hit “G.”
Gary Hart in da house!
I’ll bet Bush doesn’t even know or remember who Mandela is. The name sounded “furrin”, so it must be somebody from Iraq. Honestly, that is what I think. He doesn’t care, and he is clueless.
Hey raven at #1 Ha!
See? it is a sports blog. *g*
Late to this thread. Shocked! Just shocked!
These
idgetscritters have absolutely no shame!?!Kill the message?
Then kill the messenger?
Hel*-low GOPher scorched-earth, carpet-
b*mbingbobbing-for-apples policy.scarecrow? after your fine post downstairs.
-um- is “scum” too harsh a word for these… these…
cretinsNumbskullsRANCID COCKTAIL WEENIES?!?!!!sorry.i think i’m gonna be sick. this is NOT happening. these are living, breathing,
prescientpresumed human beings.Senator Gary Hart joins us for a special thread upstairs. Please be respectful and stay on-topic, thanks.
Securing Leadership
Biodun @ 266
I knew that, but didn’t mention it, as it’s strictly irrelevant. Besides, his libellers would have a ready explanation for that: he hates his identity, so how hard would it be to hate his parents.
Oh, that book was so “controversial”! So threateningly…sardonic.
Hugh @ 267
I think he was saying that the Swiftboat ads in 2004 were ok, because it was an election year, whereas this is not an election year and Petraeus is not an elected official, so a hit piece is therefore out of bounds.
Or something to that effect.
ET at 276 — Suzanne is a saint, and is often working that shift by herself. So you are posting during our most quiet time. Why not try e-mailing me and I’ll tell you what abbreviations you can use to get around the filter on that. We’ve tried to illustrate them a number of times in mod notes on comments — but for some reason, people fail to pay attention. We are trying to stop a few hate-filled neo-Nazi wannbes, not regulars, from posting. But I don’t want to post some whole list of end-runs publicly, either, for obvious reasons.
As for shutting down debate, that’s amusing on a day when Scarecrow posted on the Israeli/palestinian issue first thing this morning…all I am asking is for precise language. Considering it is Jane and I who end up getting inundated with e-mails and crap when people get pissed off or offended or hurt feelings, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that people be a little more careful when we ask them to do so.
It seems like there wasn’t much turn out for this circus??
Elliott @ 270
… two of Bush’s more insightful observations …
1. Saddam Killed Mandela.
2.Video Killed The Radio Star … for you Christy, keep tapping your feet … it’s a long journey to Jan. ‘09.
pseudonymous in nc @ 279
Carried in on Bush euphoria, up for reelection. He’s doomed…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 272
would not do it that’s for sure
Are they going to condemn Saxby Chambliss for his vicious attacks against a war hero to get elected? Are they going to condemn Bush and his ambassador for their SwiftBoat attacks on Kerry?
EvilDrPuma @ 281
You want him to start making sense now ?!!
Oy vey …
Wow. That site, the DIRT list? Linked at 222? Exudes a horrible hate. So many people have just tipped into being monsters.
perris @ large
perris, you bad?
One of my favorite
highway signs, in
red with white lettering.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
CHS: Thanks to you and Jane again for hosting an awesome blog.
I would like to remind myself that it is indeed your blog and I am a guest. I enjoy hangin’ at your house and will gladly abide by your rules and come here to discuss what you are discussing.
If my host gently nudges me, I will respond. If you tell me certain subjects are off limits, I respect that.
If a fellow guest is nudged and does not respond and continues to misbehave, it is a little annoying for us all, to say the least. And I don’t get the emails you do. This is not an assault on free speech, just an invitation to discuss those topics somewhere else where others will more gladly join in.
My two cents and thanks for listening.
I think this is really great stuff.
The repukes are shooting themselves in the foot.
The people are watching and if there is an election… the repukes make be on their last bits of oxygen… because if the public opinion polls are accurate the public is going to kick the Rs out for a long time.
The MSM is behind the jack booted Rs because they are into war and corporate profits.
But the net is getting the world out and the people are getting agitated.
Who they gonna sell the next war to? I think only the corporatists and dumb flag waving, ribbon wearing dolts. The rest of us have seen through this nonsense and those that didn’t before are seeing it now.
I’d like to see a real general strike to shut the country down to show how the people feel. Shut the whole country down for a day or protest.
PEOPLE PLEASE DIRECT ACTION
brendan @ 291
The interesting thing about that book was that I never got any flak from anyone (readers, my editorial board or press director) for publishing it.
Sen. Hart is chatting live upstairs. Just FYI… (Forgot to put the link in for you guys…ooops.)
To: 280: When Cornyn was running, the late, dear Molly Ivins described him as something like a really good-looking/handsome s*b who just looked like a Senator. (Close to a quote). Don’t we wish she were here for an indepth review of how Shrub et al have led us?
I am sick to my stomachKathleen @ 264
I went back and scrolled down to G there is Amy Goodman. The music, the picture, so creepy. so this is what happens to you if you are Jewish and want to be fair and balanced in regard to the I/P issue. Frightening…I am sick to my stomach
http://www.masada2000.org/dirt-list.html
What is Masada 2000 all about. Who is involved? Frightening!
What does one expect when the GOP is still nominally in charge? The Dem’s go along with what outsiders see as over the top dog offal, because it’s easier. DailyKos offers up the procedural games (unanimous consent) Congress plays in order to not do the job we elected them to do. Although the Dem’s may take Congress in ’08, we will see the same games.
The government is not broken, it is just the way the Powers That Be want it.
Biodun @304
Good to hear, and it puts in perspective the supposed fearsomeness of the lobby.
I can’t believe Cornyn will go on the floor and speak about the newspaper ad, but wouldn’t go on the floor to publically state his objection to lynching. He is such a …, I don’t even have words to describe him. And, yes, I can vouch for the poor treatment by his office staff. They were arguing with me on the phone about not going to the floor to speak out against lynching – kept saying he signed the bill and that was good enough. His office staff was yelling at me telling me I was wrong. They are awful and I really hate to call his office, because of that.
Israel’s political leaders are not a monolith but they are consistently awful right across the spectrum. There hasn’t been an original or honest idea among them for 40 years. It is probably the only such grouping that makes the Bush-Cheney crowd look good in comparison.
Betray Us should have defended free speech when the Cornyn Chorus was battering it in the Senate hearings.
Since he didn’t, the Dems should have asked him his opinion on free speech.
The Dems are not fast on their feet.
Felt like posting Chris Dodd’s message post filibuster message:
Well they corral the “herd” and get Chuck Hagel to boot.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 293
I’m not complaining about debate being shut down. Kirk Murphy made some valuable points about the psychological needs/wishes of some who post here on this set of subjects, and I agreed. If you go back through my comments on these issues over the past two weeks, for instance, I’m sure you’ll see that I’m very moderate, if persistent, sometimes attempting to calm things down, or staying out of a dispute.
As to the hate e-mails, I’ve even received sophisticated viruses targeted specifically to trip up my secure Mac systems, sent from e-mail addresses in the Knesset! For somebody like me, who is in almost daily contact with Israeli peace activists and Jewish peace activists worldwide, to be able to google this, and to stay in the debate, shows resiliance, if nothing else.
Boxer amendment would have added condemning attacks against Kerry and Cleland..defeated.
nogo war @ 315
WTF? Really, these are awful times, esp when coupled with the Florida tazering, the take down of the minister, and the Habeas Corpus vote. What have they put in the water? kool aid???
Got through to Boxer and Feinstein to “just say no” to this idiotic exercise – 2007’s answer to flag-burning-and-Terri-Schiavo.
When do the Dems in the Senate start acting like THEY are in control, and that b-s like this doesn’t need to rise to the top?
It looks like Cornyn is passing! WTF!
Democrats giving another victory to Republicans just for the hell of it? They just needed to refrain from voting and the stupid amendment would have died without them having to vote against it because there wouldn’t have been 60 votes. Why are they so afraid of the Republicans?
I have come to realize that the Democrats are in a battle with the Boston Red Sox to see who can more dramatically snatch defeat from the jaws of victory – it is still too close to call.
OT, but a couple of interesting things:
1.White House in Contempt
Dear Votus,
I wanted to take the opportunity to update you on the status of the contempt of Congress resolution in the House of Representatives.
As you may know, the Judiciary Committee passed a resolution before the August recess holding the White House and Harriet Miers in contempt of Congress for their failure to provide documents and appear before the committee as legally required by subpoena.
The information we have received to date from the Justice Department from our U.S. Attorneys investigation indicates the White House played a central role in the firing of the nine federal prosecutors. Yet, the White House has stonewalled and consistently refused to cooperate with inquiries into this matter.
At the heart of our investigation is the evidence uncovered suggesting that the nine U.S. Attorneys were fired for politically-motivated reasons, while others may have been retained because they were pursuing partisan investigations.
We have also discovered that job candidates’ political contributions and affiliations were considered in hiring decisions for nonpartisan positions in the Department of Justice. Our job has been made more difficult by apparent misleading testimony from the Attorney General and other Department of Justice officials.
This politicization of our judicial system cannot be tolerated. Our citizens have a right to expect that federal prosecutions will be conducted in a fair and nonpartisan manner.
There are many steps we can take in this confrontation with the White House. Some are more extreme than others. What we must first do is get the facts that show who made these decisions in the White House. Only once we have this evidence can we adequately pursue justice.
What is now required is for the House to pass these contempt of Congress citations and pursue legal action against the White House and Harriet Miers for their failure to meet the requirements of the subpoenas. Hopefully this contempt of Congress resolution will soon have a vote on the floor of the House. I am not prepared to allow this administration to operate above the law.
Thank you for your continued support for a better democracy.
Your Friend,
John Conyers, Jr.
*******************
2. Is Blackwater going to get kicked out of Iraq?
http://therealnews.com/web/ind…..sview=item
Wow. Boxer defeated and Cornyn passes. Something is seriously wrong with this. I give up.
ET @ 314:
The google link is something else again.
LS @ 320
It is my understanding the Cornyn Amendment did not pass. It needed 60 votes, didn’t get them, and was withdrawn.
Hugh @ 322
That was the Boxer Amendment. Cornyn’s got 72 votes and passed, and the Senate Dems shot themselves once more in the foot.
pseudonymous in nc @ 323
Well then, I have to agree with you. The Republicans get the Democrats to step all over their message again and do what the Republicans want. What dopes!
Ed*ard Teller @ 222
I’m very much encouraged by the length of this list. Reads like my BFF book. Perhaps there is hope after all.
[apologies for confounding my comment with the quote, Bilbo]
WHAT the F***ING F**K is this S**T????
Senators wasted their time on this??? And Dems voted FOR IT, when they gave up on the Webb bill yesterday? And Harry Reid even brought this to the floor? Correct me if I’m wrong, but he’s the leader, so he has the ability to tell Cornyn to stuff this, right? But he didn’t.
OMFG I’m beyond the twilight zone. This is unreal. There is no hope in the Senate. No representation. None. I don’t know what country they think they’re ‘legislating’ but it ain’t the USA.
Mr. Larry @ 326
How can they wonder why we have no faith in them? Fight for the Boxer amendment.
Prairie Sunshine @ 33
MoveOn and the NRA. When those two organizations have a common interest, the only logical conclusion is that our Gubmint is out to f**k us all.
Bilbo @ 325
Hugh @ 324
They could lose us, especially if the Republicans start the Impeachment process. I swear they would trump the Democrats.
Biodun @ 13
Ding! Ten days after the ad ran, we’re talking about the ad, not about General Petraeus’ abdication of his responsibility to his troops and his blatant dishonesty. What’s wrong with this picture???
Richmond @ 316
Why not fight?
SanderO @ 303
Um, no. They shot the Democrats, and the Dems said THANK YOU SIR MAY I HAVE ANOTHER! Then the Dems took the guns and shot themselves in the other foot.
On a general strike: hell yes. I am amazed, and I guess I shouldn’t be, how even this dumbed down lazy and out of touch general public is actually SMARTER and more tuned in than our representatives and media. Nothing will change if we wait for our reps to do it. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. And not even in Jan 09 when Hilary is ordained to take power, either.
JPL @ 73
he asked what Bush thought of the pre-emptive attack on Syria by Israel? No comment. Gregory asked again “no comment”
My senator Grassley doesn’t give a damn what I think and his vote cancels out Harkin’s every time.
carmen @ 271
By a twist of fate, I recently had dinner with the authors of that article, which they recently expanded into a best selling book that has 463 pages, 104 of which are footnotes. There have been two articles about them and their book in the LA Times in the past two weeks, this and this. Note the contrast. The first one accurately reflects what they actually said in person and in their book. The second, uses a caricature of their mesage as a strawman.
It looks like there are two parties in Congress, the majority who will believe and vote for anything put in front of them if it’s framed as ’supporting the troops’ and fighting the ‘global war on terrah’, and the minority, who occasionally (not nearly often enough) find some sense and vote sanely. Neither party has a name yet.
I don’t want to belong to either of them. They’re both full of cr*p.
Ed*ard Teller @ 185
That makes sense
roll call vote
Ds voting “yes” (to condemn moveon)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Salazar (D-CO)
Tester (D-MT)
Webb (D-VA)
Ds not voting;
Biden (D-DE)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL)
no Rs voted “no”
…..
leahy’s vote has me really depressed. (not that i feel good about webb, tester and the rest)
brendan @ 139
FWIW, Mearsheimer and Walt are adamant that the Israel Lobby is NOT monolithic. They make this point in their book, and I’ve heard it from them in person. And they go into details about the differences among different groups and individuals involved. IIRC, they said a bit about that in their recent LA Times interview. See #335.
ok. it’s worse than i thought… the boxer amendment condemned moveon too – it just also condemned the swiftboating of kerry and what happened to max cleland.
so any senator who voted for the boxer amendment voted to condemn moveon. roll call vote.
and only one D senator voted against this – Senator Russ Feingold.
quoting pach from above:
It’s important to understand, folks: this is not just an attack on MoveOn.
we have one ally in the senate. one.
i just called my senators’ offices to ask why they voted to condemn moveon. no answer at senator kennedy’s office. at senator kerry’s office, i was read a statement that just makes me sick.
Just a note to suggest that every one of the Senators who voted for this thing did it for one reason: votes.
They all want to be re-elected. With the exception of Feinstein (whose *yes* vote on this completely baffles me), these are all Dem Senators from conservative states. They’re just representing them what brung ‘em. You think any of these people would cast a vote that would NOT promote their own re-election?
They wouldn’t. This grandstanding is just that. But it does have a purpose. It’s to allow the GOP and certain at-risk Dems to show they’re not commies.
Me? I’m sending more money to MoveOn.
Remember, our system has ALWAYS been like this. This is nothing new. And, sadly, it was pretty much designed to be this way. Until more Dems are elected, so that the conservative Dems can get some cover, this is how it’s gonna be.