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	<title>Comments on: And Don&#8217;t Forget Pat Tillman</title>
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		<title>By: deandra</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-984911</link>
		<dc:creator>deandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-984911</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;He knows he’ll never be the kind of hero his father was.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A 17 year old hero?  Will someone give me a frickin break!  I’m done with the Bush fairy tale being shoved down our throats.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The emperor wears no clothes.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>He knows he’ll never be the kind of hero his father was.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>A 17 year old hero?  Will someone give me a frickin break!  I’m done with the Bush fairy tale being shoved down our throats.  </p>
<p>The emperor wears no clothes.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-984904</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-984904</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;george sr. a hero?  maybe i’m reading the wrong history book.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>george sr. a hero?  maybe i’m reading the wrong history book.</p>
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		<title>By: Praedor Atrebates</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-984075</link>
		<dc:creator>Praedor Atrebates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-984075</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As a major in the USAFR and a veteran, I DO call into question Petraeus’ ethics, honor, and patriotism.  He is a self-serving moral coward.  He is ONLY about trying &lt;i&gt;desperately&lt;/i&gt; to save his military legacy.  He OWNS the military debacle that is Iraq.  It is ALL HIS.  He cannot save it, he is the new Westmoreland.  His legacy is a criminal military debacle in Iraq.  Forever in history that is his place but he cannot face that so he must try and try and try to put off the inevitable ignoble end by spouting happy talk about how there is light at the end of the tunnel, that everything will come out smelling rosy any moment now.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Petraeus IS General Betray US.  I say that as a Major, USAFR.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Suck that senate cowards.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a major in the USAFR and a veteran, I DO call into question Petraeus’ ethics, honor, and patriotism.  He is a self-serving moral coward.  He is ONLY about trying <i>desperately</i> to save his military legacy.  He OWNS the military debacle that is Iraq.  It is ALL HIS.  He cannot save it, he is the new Westmoreland.  His legacy is a criminal military debacle in Iraq.  Forever in history that is his place but he cannot face that so he must try and try and try to put off the inevitable ignoble end by spouting happy talk about how there is light at the end of the tunnel, that everything will come out smelling rosy any moment now.</p>
<p>Petraeus IS General Betray US.  I say that as a Major, USAFR.  </p>
<p>Suck that senate cowards.</p>
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		<title>By: larue</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-984042</link>
		<dc:creator>larue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-984042</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-983546&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;LS @ 134&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;More Blackwater ’splainin’ to do:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004253.php&quot;&gt;http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004253.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bet it can be backtracked to Mr. K and Abromoff . . . . ;-) $2.5 Billion in reconstruction money, missing, under HIS watch . . . .&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-983546"><em>LS @ 134</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>More Blackwater ’splainin’ to do:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004253.php">http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004253.php</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Bet it can be backtracked to Mr. K and Abromoff . . . . ;-) $2.5 Billion in reconstruction money, missing, under HIS watch . . . .</p>
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		<title>By: tejanarusa</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-984019</link>
		<dc:creator>tejanarusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-984019</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-983509&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Hugh @ 97&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-983499&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;ccmask @ 86&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;What are the references to Saddam &amp; Mandela?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bush’s news conference today.  He said something like Saddam was a bad man, he killed Mandela, he killed all the Mandelas.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hi, y’all.  I never listen to Bush say anything, but…..&lt;br /&gt;
WTF?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-983509"><em>Hugh @ 97</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-983499"><em>ccmask @ 86</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>What are the references to Saddam &amp; Mandela?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Bush’s news conference today.  He said something like Saddam was a bad man, he killed Mandela, he killed all the Mandelas.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hi, y’all.  I never listen to Bush say anything, but…..<br />
WTF?</p>
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		<title>By: bonkers</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-983958</link>
		<dc:creator>bonkers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-983958</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-983843&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;toby martin @ 281&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;There is a machine that needs to be fought against, and it is totally ruthless.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But toby, that’s kind of a mean thing to say.  If we did fight too much, we’ll be playing right into the Right Wing Noize Machine frame of us as angry.  I mean, can you imagine what Chris Matthews would say about us?!?  Shudder to think…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Plus it’s just rude to call someone ruthless.  That’s not the way to negotiate with someone, now is it!  You just don’t understand how Warshington works, my friend.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(sorry for being a smartass, just getting so sick of hearing this kind of crap while the killing goes on and on with no end in sight.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course, we could spend time and energy investigating the arrest record of the cop in Minneapolis that arrested Senator Wide Stance.  And that kid in Florida….he was so mean to Sen Kerry.  What a punk!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;C’mon toby, git yer head in the game!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-983843"><em>toby martin @ 281</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>There is a machine that needs to be fought against, and it is totally ruthless.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>But toby, that’s kind of a mean thing to say.  If we did fight too much, we’ll be playing right into the Right Wing Noize Machine frame of us as angry.  I mean, can you imagine what Chris Matthews would say about us?!?  Shudder to think…</p>
<p>Plus it’s just rude to call someone ruthless.  That’s not the way to negotiate with someone, now is it!  You just don’t understand how Warshington works, my friend.</p>
<p>(sorry for being a smartass, just getting so sick of hearing this kind of crap while the killing goes on and on with no end in sight.)</p>
<p>Of course, we could spend time and energy investigating the arrest record of the cop in Minneapolis that arrested Senator Wide Stance.  And that kid in Florida….he was so mean to Sen Kerry.  What a punk!</p>
<p>C’mon toby, git yer head in the game!</p>
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		<title>By: toby martin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-983843</link>
		<dc:creator>toby martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-983843</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-983458&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;bonkers @ 47&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I was re-reading Major General Smedley Butler’s writing today called “War is a Racket.”  He wrote it after his experiences in WWI and what he saw developing on the world stage, which eventually ended up being WWII.  Creepy stuff:Bonkers has it exactly right.  The rest of the commenters, forgive me for pointing it out, are just masturbating with their comments directed at this or that minor, irrelevant target.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is a machine that needs to be fought against, and it is totally ruthless.  All it understands is direct action, and it would not hesitate to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans to hold power, any more than it hesitated to kill hundreds of thousands of Iraquis to get some oil.  We need to turn our brains to this, the real issue.  The Declaration of Independence was written to address a similar situation, where the institutions of the law did not allow for the kind of change that was desired and needed, so the colonists wrote a document that appealed to divine law rather than man’s law.  But they ran the risk of death in doing so.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Today is much worse, since the colonists did not have to deal with the super-surveillance methods of today, not did they have to deal with weapons that could eliminate whole crowds at once.  Organization of any kind of revolutionary action would be almost impossible today in the face of the tools the government has at its disposal.  It may in fact be too late to do anything but accept our fate as insects in the giant corporate hive.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If anybody has any action ideas that they can share without getting us all arrested and disappeared, I’d like to hear them.  Just as a matter of intellectual curiosity.  Absent that, maybe we should all go back to our video games.  Today made it abundantly clear that politics will not be the solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;em&gt;“The assassination of King Alexander of Jugoslavia [Yugoslavia] complicated matters. Jugoslavia and Hungary, long bitter enemies, were almost at each other’s throats. Italy was ready to jump in. But France was waiting. So was Czechoslovakia. All of them are looking ahead to war. Not the people – not those who fight and pay and die – only those who foment wars and remain safely at home to profit.”&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;“Herr Hitler, with his rearming Germany and his constant demands for more and more arms, is an equal if not greater menace to peace. France only recently increased the term of military service for its youth from a year to eighteen months.”&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;“Yes, they are getting ready for another war. Why shouldn’t they? It pays high dividends.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But what does it profit the men who are killed? What does it profit their mothers and sisters, their wives and their sweethearts? What does it profit their children?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What does it profit anyone except the very few to whom war means huge profits?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes, and what does it profit the nation?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Oh if only decorated General Butler were around today.  It’s all just the same old story.  Maybe MoveOn could run some ads &lt;a href=&quot;http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm&quot;&gt;quoting Gen Butler,&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html&quot;&gt;Gen. Eisenhower,&lt;/a&gt; two Generals who actually fought and won in major wars unlike Gen Betrayus, and understood where the real battle is.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Perpetual war means perpetual profits if you’re in on the game.  Terrorism will always exist.  Hence, they created the “War on Terror” to ensure perpetual profits.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They must be stopped now.  Politely pointing out that this is wrong and kills innocent people will not change their minds.  In fact, politeness and playing by the rules will get you nowhere, as has been proven over and over again.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Drastic times call for drastic measures.  NOW!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-983458"><em>bonkers @ 47</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>I was re-reading Major General Smedley Butler’s writing today called “War is a Racket.”  He wrote it after his experiences in WWI and what he saw developing on the world stage, which eventually ended up being WWII.  Creepy stuff:Bonkers has it exactly right.  The rest of the commenters, forgive me for pointing it out, are just masturbating with their comments directed at this or that minor, irrelevant target.</p>
<p>There is a machine that needs to be fought against, and it is totally ruthless.  All it understands is direct action, and it would not hesitate to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans to hold power, any more than it hesitated to kill hundreds of thousands of Iraquis to get some oil.  We need to turn our brains to this, the real issue.  The Declaration of Independence was written to address a similar situation, where the institutions of the law did not allow for the kind of change that was desired and needed, so the colonists wrote a document that appealed to divine law rather than man’s law.  But they ran the risk of death in doing so.</p>
<p>Today is much worse, since the colonists did not have to deal with the super-surveillance methods of today, not did they have to deal with weapons that could eliminate whole crowds at once.  Organization of any kind of revolutionary action would be almost impossible today in the face of the tools the government has at its disposal.  It may in fact be too late to do anything but accept our fate as insects in the giant corporate hive.</p>
<p>If anybody has any action ideas that they can share without getting us all arrested and disappeared, I’d like to hear them.  Just as a matter of intellectual curiosity.  Absent that, maybe we should all go back to our video games.  Today made it abundantly clear that politics will not be the solution.<br />
<em>“The assassination of King Alexander of Jugoslavia [Yugoslavia] complicated matters. Jugoslavia and Hungary, long bitter enemies, were almost at each other’s throats. Italy was ready to jump in. But France was waiting. So was Czechoslovakia. All of them are looking ahead to war. Not the people – not those who fight and pay and die – only those who foment wars and remain safely at home to profit.”</em></p>
<p><em>“Herr Hitler, with his rearming Germany and his constant demands for more and more arms, is an equal if not greater menace to peace. France only recently increased the term of military service for its youth from a year to eighteen months.”</em></p>
<p><em>“Yes, they are getting ready for another war. Why shouldn’t they? It pays high dividends.</em></p>
<p>But what does it profit the men who are killed? What does it profit their mothers and sisters, their wives and their sweethearts? What does it profit their children?</p>
<p>What does it profit anyone except the very few to whom war means huge profits?</p>
<p>Yes, and what does it profit the nation?”</p>
<p>Oh if only decorated General Butler were around today.  It’s all just the same old story.  Maybe MoveOn could run some ads <a href="http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm">quoting Gen Butler,</a> and <a href="http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html">Gen. Eisenhower,</a> two Generals who actually fought and won in major wars unlike Gen Betrayus, and understood where the real battle is.</p>
<p>Perpetual war means perpetual profits if you’re in on the game.  Terrorism will always exist.  Hence, they created the “War on Terror” to ensure perpetual profits.</p>
<p>They must be stopped now.  Politely pointing out that this is wrong and kills innocent people will not change their minds.  In fact, politeness and playing by the rules will get you nowhere, as has been proven over and over again.</p>
<p>Drastic times call for drastic measures.  NOW!</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: HumboldtBlue</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-983769</link>
		<dc:creator>HumboldtBlue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-983769</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-983576&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Jonathan @ 164&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-983565&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;CTuttle @ 151&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
I’m a trained Combat Engineer….&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hey, CT.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;raven drove trucks in Viet Nam.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i was an intelligence officer&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Norske was a nurse&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;james was a marine&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Scarecrow, i think, was a radioman&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;we’ve got the start of an army&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m a former Infantryman and after that, EMT and firefighter so I can shoot ya AND patch you up. (now I’m just part of the dirty media).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-983576"><em>Jonathan @ 164</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-983565"><em>CTuttle @ 151</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>
I’m a trained Combat Engineer….</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hey, CT.</p>
<p>raven drove trucks in Viet Nam.</p>
<p>i was an intelligence officer</p>
<p>Norske was a nurse</p>
<p>james was a marine</p>
<p>Scarecrow, i think, was a radioman</p>
<p>we’ve got the start of an army</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’m a former Infantryman and after that, EMT and firefighter so I can shoot ya AND patch you up. (now I’m just part of the dirty media).</p>
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		<title>By: Kathy/Fozzetti</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-983765</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy/Fozzetti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-983765</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Consprital?  Why *wouldn’t* people who are rich and powerful conspire to gain more wealth and power, and to keep others poor and weak?  They’d be crazy NOT to!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consprital?  Why *wouldn’t* people who are rich and powerful conspire to gain more wealth and power, and to keep others poor and weak?  They’d be crazy NOT to!</p>
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		<title>By: dmac</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-983763</link>
		<dc:creator>dmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/20/and-dont-forget-pat-tillman/#comment-983763</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;waccamaw at 244 says-”EPU land but……….&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Has anyone found any reliable references that there are troops who really *do* call him betrayus or is it all antidotal?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;waccamaw, i think LS posted this earlier, haven’t watched it, i’m on dial up………is supposed to be about the troops betrayus thing…..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G5EZlSnJnU&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G5EZlSnJnU&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;AND, earlier today, irish jim posted a  link for you in the ‘bipartisan’ thread at comment 315…a move-on form for direct mailing that you were looking for…didn’t know if you saw it………&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>waccamaw at 244 says-”EPU land but……….</p>
<p>Has anyone found any reliable references that there are troops who really *do* call him betrayus or is it all antidotal?”</p>
<p>waccamaw, i think LS posted this earlier, haven’t watched it, i’m on dial up………is supposed to be about the troops betrayus thing…..</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G5EZlSnJnU">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G5EZlSnJnU</a></p>
<p>AND, earlier today, irish jim posted a  link for you in the ‘bipartisan’ thread at comment 315…a move-on form for direct mailing that you were looking for…didn’t know if you saw it………</p>
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