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Here's a gut check on behalf of our troops and their families:
...Kelly waits anxiously for each phone call from her husband. They come almost daily and trigger fears of the worst kind when they don’t. That often means that someone in his company has been injured or killed and the military has cut off phone access until the next of kin has been notified. That’s when Kelly starts looking out the window, fearing the worst.
“There have been times when we’ve gone seven, eight days,” says Kelly. “After 48 hours, you know it’s not yours. … And I know it sounds terrible, but then you think, ‘Thank God it’s not mine.’”
When the phone finally rings, Kelly sinks into the crimson-and-rust cushions of her sofa and listens as Joe describes his days on patrol.
While it is a relief to hear his voice, their conversations raise other concerns. Joe’s moods are unpredictable, ranging from tenderness to rage.
“I never know who I’m going to get on the phone,” Kelly said. “He’s really been in the thick of it. … He worries that he won’t be the same person when he gets back.”...
Eleven members of Charlie Company have been killed and 40, including Joe, have been awarded Purple Hearts for battle wounds. He was shot in the forearm last month but was back out on patrol three days later. Kelly says he’s also suffered two concussions — one from an IED and another from a grenade blast.
Still, what may have been the worst moment of the war for Joe and Kelly came in April, when Secretary of Defense Robert Gates announced that U.S. Army tours would be extended from 12 months to 15.
Joe heard the news not from his commander, but by phone from Kelly. She said he couldn’t believe it would include his company.
“His exact words were: ‘It better not be us. I will f---ing lose it,’” recalled Kelly. “And I thought, ‘Oh my God, is something in his brain going to snap?’”
The strains of long immersion in life-and-death situations are familiar to anyone who has had loved ones serve in an armed conflict. But experts say the uncertainty and fear felt by family members in this war are amplified by how few people are being called on, and to what extent.
Our soldiers are not pieces on a chess board. They are living, breathing human beings who deserve to be treated with the respect that they have earned with their blood and sacrifice. It is well past time that we looked at the real world consequences of what the Bush Administration is doing to our nation's military and all of their families with their lack of care for those who are actually doing the fighting.
Please keep those calls going to the Senate on behalf of the Webb Amendment.
You can call toll free here (H/T to Katymine):
1 (800) 828 - 0498
1 (800) 614 - 2803
1 (866) 340 - 9281
1 (866) 338 - 1015
1 (877) 851 - 6437
Every single Senator needs a call today, regardless of whether they are on the target lists. You can find individual office numbers here. Here are some Senators that I’m hearing could use some extra persuasion:
Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska)
DC: 202-224-6665
Anchorage: 907-271-3735
George Voinovich (R-Ohio)
DC: (202) 224-3353
Cleveland: (216) 522-7095
Elizabeth Dole (R-North Carolina)
DC: 202-224-6342
Raleigh: 866-420-6083
John Warner (R-Virginia)
DC: (202) 224-2023
Roanoke: (540) 857-2676
Mitch McConnell (R-Kentucky)
DC: 202-224-2541
Louisville: 502-82-6304
Arlen Specter (R-Pennsylvania)
DC: 202-224-4254
Harrisburg: (717) 782-3951
Bonus - Ask Harry Reid to "don't let Republicans obstruct - make them stand and filibuster":
Harry Reid
DC: 202-224-3542
Las Vegas: 702-388-5020
Also, Sen. Webb's staff has put together a great tool for e-mailing your Senators about the amendment. Thanks again for all the effort, gang. Your Constitution and your nation (and this blogger) really appreciate it!
(Photo via Soldier's Media Center.)
UPDATE: For other ways that you can support our troops and their families, see here and here.
UPDATE #2: Georgia10 at DKos calls out the craptastic attempt by McCain and Warner to provide a flimsy substitute amendment for the Webb one that looks purty on the surface but does absolutely nothing for our troops and their families. Nice ethics you have there, fellas.
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A Zed!
Christy!
Go Webb and Christy!
Bonus - Ask Harry Reid to “don’t let Republicans obstruct - make them stand and filibuster”:
already done.
Unfortunately, Christy, they ARE pieces on a chess board. Commander Guy uses them like his own personal G.I. Joes and he loves it. It makes him feel powerful. He has the mentality of a 7 year old child and a really mean streak so he laughs at death.
Bless you, Christy!
Support our troops’ survival;
supoort our troops’ mental well-being;
support our troops’ humanity;
support our troops’ rights;
support our troops’ families:
Support Our Troops.
Twain @ 5
I suspect the CIC has a little pen*s, a smaller brain and a non-existent heart.
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
McCain succeeded in changing the topic. Is Rove still running show?
If Hagel does not slap down McCain the way McCain has slapped Webb down, the vote is lost. blah, blah, blah McCain used Bush’s talking points and that is code for All Rs must fillibuster or else they don’t get re-election funds. Let’s hope that Hagel has the morals of his convictions and stands up.
Webb now rebutting Senator Sophist’s meandering, circular, and illogical speech.
Mods: Yeah, you’re gonna hafta moderate my comment. Sorry.
This got lost downstairs, but has the House acted on Defense Authorization? Specifically, could the House add versions of these amendments (Habeas & Webb) and then get them put back in during conference? I don’t think you can filibuster an authorization bill post-conference, so that would force W to veto.
What am I missing?
I want to put a pitch in for paying attention to the federal budget. While BushCo is creating a population that will rely on public services, he is threatening to veto any spending bills that exceed his draconian limitations. So, for instance, the DoL’s Veterans Training program will face cuts. It’s a program that’s supposed to augment the VA’s similar job training program. It’s also there to protect the rights of military personnel under USERRA. That’s just one example. Our vets and their families use Head Start, WIC, food stamps. Returning vets and their families are guaranteed to need mental health services - mental health services will suffer among the biggest cuts if BushCo has his way.
Since the spending on these sort of programs will be LESS a part of our economy in 2008 than in any time that BushCo signed budgets happily, the threatened vetoes are not only cruel, but also unnecessary.
I work to tie these issues together for a part-time living. I wish more people would take up this cause. Screwing with the budget is hurting working America, her middle class and our military families. BushCo should be held accountable for that.
Twain @ 5
Yet, no one ever questions Bush, the Republics, or even the WH why it’s ok that the Bush family doesn’t serve.
kdh22 @ 11
I kinda like the unmoderated one, but that’s just me!! :)
Hiya kdh22
Helen @ 15
blah, blah, blah McCain is just blathering on. Wash, rinse and repeat. Say BS again and again until it is taken as truth.
Separation of powers? McCain is backing WH that clearly has tried to take all separation of powers away and violates the Constitution at every chance it gets. How about the previous Habeas Corpus Ammendment? Wasn’t it McCain that voted against upholding the Constitution?
I can’t figure McCain. His presidential ambitions are toast. Is he just trying to go down in a blaze of glory?
However these votes come out today, I suggest we all contact our senators who voted AYE and thank them. They need to hear from us also, to know they have our support - yes, issue by issue, just to be on the safe side. No blank checks in this day & age.
Badwater @ 14
Daddy Bush served in WWII; in fact, I think he was a war hero of sorts. Technically, Georgie W served in the Reserves, although he did not complete his term. I’m not sure about the current younger generation…George, Jeb’s son? So essentially, it’s just the twins who haven’t served as far as direct line of descendency.
DefendOurConstitution @ 16
He’s going down in a blaze of infamy — a former POW voting for destroying our Constitutional rights and one who apparently approves of torture….
McCain is a glory seeking knave.
I question his mental capacities.
I wouldn’t let him take care of my pet hamster for a weekend.
-GSD
P.S. Larry Craig was reportedly standing around the floor of the Senate and none of the GOP kewl kidz would talk to him at all.
Nice people.
DefendOurConstitution @ 17
Or he’s just a spiteful prick who doesn’t mind seeing others suffer.
Wow! People still be downstairs!
Adie @ 17
However these votes come out today, I suggest we all contact our senators who voted AYE and thank them. They need to hear from us also, to know they have our support - yes, issue by issue, just to be on the safe side. No blank checks in this day & age.
Yes, excellent point. I already called both of my Indiana Senators, each of whom came through today, and did precisely that.
Why don’t Webb, Hagel et al just state the obvious:
Stop loss, faster deployments, etc. are just a back door draft.
DefendOurConstitution @ 17
blazing anyway. i tell ya, he’s popped something near his judgement-meter. he’s never been quite this round-the-bend bonkers, has he?
And as i said earlier, it’s not been just today. he’s been steadily losing it, badly, his staff, the election AND his self control. imho it’d be sad if it weren’t so serious for the troops, our democracy, little things like that…
I’m calling the direct lines, and all I get are busy signals! Woo hoo!
Trust me, I’ll keep dialing. :D
I’m still recuperating from the shock of seeing that both my Senators (Lugar and Bayh) voted the right way on the Habeas amendment. I need to give their offices a call and thank them.
I’m not sure I’ve ever experienced the feeling of having both senators vote the right way.
Of course the excitement is tempered by knowing the filibuster was successful and we still don’t have that basic protection.
And the fact that we have other big issues to work on. Keep up the good work folks, if Lugar and Bayh can be persuaded to vote correctly, there’s hope.
newtonusr @ 22
He’s fucked up in the head. Torture’ll do that to ya.
I got through to Warner’s DC number. He’s officially undecided. I told them that in a military state like Virginia Webb’s amendment would probably be “more popular than President Bush’s war”.
Just got hold of both Box Turtle and the Cheerleader’s offices and requested that they put their votes where their rhetoric has been by voting in support of the Webb amendment.
However, I won’t be holding my breath.
GSD @ 20
He probably didn’t wash his hands on the way out of the men’s room.
OT driveby news alert:
Senate Rejects Expanding Detainee Rights
from wa po politics by ANNE FLAHERTY
WASHINGTON — The Senate narrowly rejected legislation on Wednesday that would have given military detainees the right to protest their detention in federal court.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....s_politics
Menendez: “listen to those who serve …”
What is he smoking, dope? We only listen to the military people that parrot the Administration’s talking points. Any military that dares talk in a way that the Administration doesn’t approve of is toast.
Frank Probst @ 32
pass the brain bleach please
OT but important. First confirmed case of cholera in Baghdad today. Another case pending confirmation.
Ann in AZ @ 19
Daddy Bush was a Navy pilot who bailed out of his plane, leaving his crew to their deaths. I don’t say that to be judgmental, as I might also have been a coward in the circumstances. His own Daddy, Prescott, had to come take him home and hush up the disgrace.
Lindsey - the closet man - Graham. Mr. Clinton impeachment himself.
Blah, blah, blah - part 2.
Laura Doty @ 36
We’ve liberated a lot of germs in Iraq too.
-GSD
GSD @ 21
good eye, heh. acting just like rather immature middle-schoolers…
Lindsey Graham now is upset that every time a Repub votes for the war, someone takes out an ad decrying that action.
“It’s the goddamn public that is fucking up my war!!”
Poor baby.
Don’t forget Graham “served” 2-3 weeks in Iraq.
True he was sitting in an air-conditioned office in the Green Zone.
Military policy not subject to political pressure. Wouldn’t it be great if Congress had stopped themselves from giving Bush carte blanch in 2002 because it was good politically (both Republicans and Democrats).
Graham said it - STOP FUNDING!
Go Democrats! Call his bluff!
GSD @ 21
They had already arranged to meet him in the bathroom
Why is the Republican party afraid of our Constitution?
Why does the Republican party hate our troops?
Lindsey mentions “colleagues on this (R) side who want to support this Amendment…”
did I just see a glimmer of hope?
edit: and frantic changing of the subject?
The “war” was lost in 2002, months before starting because it was all a lie and, to boot, it was not even planned or properly executed.
If for no other reason than the self-preserving one of future recruitment, you’d think pro-war folks would recognize that young men and women will think twice about signing up for service, knowing how their elected officials’ measures treat them.
Leahy’s reaction to the vote:
-via thinkprogress
John Murtha spoke at length at the National Press Club on Monday. Some of it was excellent–like when he got mixed up and referred to Cheney as the secretary of state. Great stuff. For Murtha, it is all troops, all the time, and nothing but the troops. Or so he says.
But one thing he said in Q and A brought me up short. He said that in the last appropriations bill they had drastically raised funding for “bonus pay” for enlistment/reenlistment. I believe he said they had raised funding–the democratic congress had–from 140 million to 2 BILLION. A huge increase in bonus money, in order to keep soldiers coming in (or staying in) the ranks.
Think about this for a moment. Webb is pushing his amendment again, to greatly increase the troop ‘downtime’ interval, as a way to both reduce troop stress, but very importantly to reduce the number of troops available for deployment. I support Webb’s de-facto means of troop reduction.
But at the very same time, this same democratic congress has drastically increased funding for troop bonuses (I believe I’ve heard some bonuses are $20,000 bucks)–encouraging enlistment and reenlistment, feeding the war effort.
It is this seeming contradictory behavior on the part of the majority (re: FISA, MCA, etc.)that drives me nuts. If they were truly interested in finding creative ways to draw down the troops–because they don’t have the guts to do it in a straight-forward manner–why are they allocating these huge new funds to get troops to sign up. We know where the vast majority of these bonus recipients are going. They’re going to Iraq.
“Troops need a Commander who knows what he’s doing” - Is he advocating Impeachment? Clearly Bush does not know what he’s doing.
jayt @ 46
I suspect you’re seeing another 56-43 vote…
Good job by the GOP to redefine a majority to be no less than 60%
bg @ 45
Why is the Republican party afraid of our Constitution?
Why does the Republican party hate our troops?
Why does the R party refuse to listen to their constituents?
Other Pat @ 48
Hence the 20K bribes and outright lies.
SufiLizard @ 28
yes, do call and thank.
no, don’t give an inch.
yes, continue watching their every move.
issue by issue. no blanket thanks. ;->
Woohoo, McCain interrupts Graham with some asskissing!
peanutbutter @ 53
yep. funny how stuff typed simultaneously ends up speaking to the other.
brendan @ 37
You are an ill-informed fool Brendan. But don’t let that slow ya down.
Oh please you two
Graham & McCain
what a show
Ott @ 56
Wonder how long ago they planned that?
McCain just brough up Graham’s “active duty”! Day to day interface? troop morale? Graham was to busy in the bathroom stalls in the Green Zone to find out anything that really affects the troops.
Graham and McCain indulging in a mutual mastur**tion session.
Graham says “if you want to end war cut off funding” Well that would be nice if they would let the Senate VOTE on a Bill instead of filiblustering.
God they make me bloody sick!
DefendOurConstitution @ 61
he was holding a sign that read: “will tap feet for cheap rugs”
A Sense of the Senate. Some years back those of us who served in what’s called “The DMZ War” in Korea, the conflict between when the armistice was signed and now were trying to get a decoration approved. It is called the Korea Defense Service Medal KDSM. They passed a “Sense of the Senate” in 2002 and Rummy refused to authorize it because of cost (sound familiar?). Finally, after fighting like hell we got it passed as a law in 2003. Just reinforcing that the SOS is bullshit.
Rick - you are welcome to come here and participate in discussions. You are not, however, permitted to denigrate other participants.
Period.
Only one day after FED interest cuts and the bond market is already collapsing.
Such ungrateful people.
Elliott @ 59
sort of an intellectual black hole?
.
I don’t like any of them but let’s geto our facts straight. Like some of the POW’s said abot Jane, “Her actions spoke for themselves, we don’t need to make up things”.
The youngest pilot in the Navy when he received his wings, he flew 58 combat missions during World War II. On one mission over the Pacific as a torpedo bomber pilot he was shot down by Japanese antiaircraft fire and was rescued from the water by a U. S. submarine. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for bravery in action.
Well I just called both Senator’s Lugar and Bayh to thank them for their cloture votes on the Habeas amendment, and I had to wait on hold for quite a while at both offices.
I hope that means they’re getting lots of calls about this Webb amendment.
Ann in AZ @ 19
Granddaddy Prescott was Hitler’s banker, so I guess you could say he served in WW2.
http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm
What the hey-hey is huckleberry talking about? What does it have to do with the Webb amendment? And why is huckleberry acting like an expert on Iraq, when he pretty much went shopping in a flak vest.
.
I don’t like any of them but let’s get our facts straight. Like some of the POW’s said abot Jane, “Her actions spoke for themselves, we don’t need to make up things”.
TexBetsy @ 33
Very narrowly. I wonder if all those Republics who were so swift to try and put limitations on filibustering are now grateful to the Democratic party members who refused to allow that right to be removed?
Lisa Murkowski’s office asked, “Do you have someone in the service?” What an odd question. They are all my countrymen and women. Not having a close relative, I volunteered that I was a veteran. I concluded with “if you are for or against the war, it doesn’t matter. You have to treat the troops right.” He (staffer) responded, “I know.”
why is Lindsey talking about military trials, and what does that have to do with whether real soldiers should be allowed to spend some time at home?
What the hell - I’m sold. Lindsey, it’s ok with me if you wanna deny leave to the JAG Corps.
Well folks, here’s the message I sent to my new Senators
Chambliss showed up! He who did note vote on Habeas Corpus!
DefendOurConstitution @ 77
He was the missing vote?
DefendOurConstitution @ 77
Detained in the bathroom?
DefendOurConstitution @ 76
Probably working on his sneer. He always looks as if he smells something unseemly.
formerGeorgian @ 76
Being a soldier or a vet only counts when it suits them, believe me.
SufiLizard @ 69
or they might be getting some hammering from the nekkidrighteous over the vote for which you just thanked them. making nice, when they do nice, is a good thing. ;->
peanutbutter @ 79
Sexless Chambly? doubtful.
Called all the senators listed on this post, and it took forever because of the busy signals. Cool!
No one’s staffer would say how they were voting, but very politely took my message of support for the Webb Hagel Amendment.
Now to call my own senators, to thank them for voting Aye on Habeas Corpus and to make sure they know the Webb amendment is a very good thing.
rick@58 if you’re still around:
There’s considerable doubt about the senior Bush’s hero status from people who would know:
Mierzejewki, who is also a recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross, told the New York Post that he saw “a puff of smoke” come out of Bush’s plane and quickly dissipate. He asserted that after that there was no more smoke visible, that Bush’s “plane was never on fire” and that “no smoke came out of his cockpit when he opened his canopy to bail out.” Mierzejewski stated that only one man ever got out of the Barbara II, and that was Bush himself. “I was hoping I would see some other parachutes. I never did. I saw the plane go down. I knew the guys were still in it. It was a helpless feeling.”
Mierzejewski has long been troubled by the notion that Bush’s decision to parachute from his damaged aircraft might have cost the lives of Radioman second class John Delaney, a close friend of Mierzejewksy, as well as gunner Lt. Junior Grade William White. ‘I think [Bush] could have saved those lives, if they were alive. I don’t know that they were, but at least they had a chance if he had attempted a water landing,’” Mierzejewski told the New York Post.
Former executive officer Legare Hole summed up the question for the New York Post reporters as follows: “If the plane is on fire, it hastens your decision to bail out. If it is not on fire, you make a water landing.” The point is that a water landing held out more hope for all members of the crew. The Avenger had been designed to float for approximately two minutes, giving the tailgunner enough time to inflate a raft and giving everyone an extra margin of time to get free of the plane before it sank. Bush had carried out a water landing back in June when his plane had lost oil pressure.
The official- but undated- report on the incident among the squadron records was signed by Commander Melvin and an intelligence officer named Lt. Martin E. Kilpatrick. Kilpatrick is deceased, and Melvin in 1988 was hospitalized with Parkinson’s disease and could not be interviewed. Mierzejewski in early August 1988 had never seen the undated intelligence report in question. “Kilpatrick was the first person I spoke to when we got back to the ship,” he said. “I told him what I saw. I don’t understand why it’s not in the report.”
Gunner Lawrence Mueller tended to corroborate Mierzejewki’s account. Mueller had kept a log book of his own in which he made notations as the squadron was debriefed in the ready room after each mission. For September 2, 1944, Mueller’s personal log had the following entry: “White and Delaney presumed to have gone down with plane.” Mueller told the New York Post that “no parachute was sighted except Bush’s when the plane went down.” The New York Post reporters were specific that according to Mueller, no one in the San Jacinto ready room during the debriefing had said anything about a fire on board Bush’s plane. Mueller said: “I would have put it in my logbook if I had heard it.”
Dubya isn’t the only coward in the family…it seems to be congenital.
would somebody please point out that damn near everyone has conceded that Iraq is not gonna be solved militarily, and that the Iraqi parliament has essentially melted down? What the hell is the continued presence of U.S. troops supposed to do to remedy that?
If the idea is that the Iraqi Parliament can’t meet safely as the situation on the ground presently exists, it seems to me that we’ve got plenty of planes which can fly them to, say, Vienna, or Paris, or Muncie Indiana, fer chrissakes.
1:01 EST PM: “Lieberman has no position on the Webb amendment. He voted against in the past,” according to the staffer. Other than that they do not know. I told staffer that I did not like the Senators no vote on habeas corpus this morning. It was unAmerican. I said I am not hearing anything on C-Span that makes Republikans sound like experts on troops. I told him it’s common knowledge that suicide rates are at a 26 year high in the army &etc. It’s time to stop playing politics with the troops lives.
DefendOurConstitution @ 77
Raven scared him.
peanutbutter @ 79
Detained in the bathroom?
smokin’Caucus in the Boys’ Room?McCain mispoke about linking the “Warner” Amendment to the Webb Amendment. Now apologizes to Warner…
Link for my 85:
Bush at War
BigMitch @ 74
What a stoopid-silly question from them?!
We’ve had flag and yellow ribbon together out in front of our house for several years now, and occasionally get such questions.
A handy, all purpose answer I find sufficient:
“Friends.”
I like yours better. ;->
Warner: I thahank my colleague from VA. And the facchewal basis is this. . . We’re friends.( But Warner knows better?)
james @ 85
Was this in Bradley’s “Flyboys”? Ps where ya been James?
mui @ 87
And remember, it was just seven short years ago that Dick Cheney, speaking for all republicans at their national convention, told our military that “Help is on the Way”.
WTF is Warner rambling about? Does he have an amendment or not?
raven@94: It was in The Unauthorized George Bush by Webster Tarpley.
I’ve been busy becoming proficient with an AK-47 and sighting in my M-14.
Ya never know nowadays.
This is a good issue to bombard the media. This is the quintessential “SUPPORT THE TROOPS” issue. If any GOP member votes against this Bill he should be repeatedly called out for not supporting the troops.
Biodun @ 96
I don’t know but now the Rethuglikan tactic is long rambles. See Huckleberry above.
Melvin Laird? Warner is not making much sense…
OT New Froomkin up Lede is the disconnect between Beltway pundits and the rest of the country as shown through the polls.
Biodun @ 96
Damned if I know. It seems to be all about him.
Mods: Intruder alert @99 - I seriously doubt this poster is who they say they are…
jayt @ 86
I’m so sick of the administration & their enablers harping on the absolute need to “WIN” militarily in this
waroccupation. At this point, with all the destruction of life and infrastructure, what can they possibly mean?!? I think they should be called on it every time they make that idiotic, shameful claim.Maybe Warner is having flashbacks to his glory days as Mr. Elizabeth Taylor? Another blah, blah, blah.
Christy, Mods:
“Henry Kissinger” is at the Lake…
Helen @ 103
And that just about sums up the only person any senator really cares about, nu?
james @ 97
I got this movie called “The Face of War about H 2/7, in 66. They are carrying 14’s, which I carried in Korea at the same time but in the film they are using speed loaders from the top like an M-1. I’d never seen that?
Folks, this is a good time to remind everyone that you are NOT allowed to use the names of actual people as your nickname here unless you are actually that person. Impersonation is a no no and can get you banned. Capice?
Sh*t, “I endorsed it and now I intend to vote against it”? WTF?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 110
I love it when you talk Italian!
Good thing Warner’s retiring. Let’s hope a Dem (maybe even the other Warner) captures his seat.
james @ 97
I’m a Green for gun rights.
The Tarpley book is essential reading. Going forward, a stake needs to be driven into the political heart of the Bush Family.
http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm
formerGeorgian @ 76
This is the most concise and great letter I’ve read for a very long time. Perfection! Sure wish I could be that effective and brief at the same time.
is that a flip or a flop? Is he saying I supported the troops before I did not support them?
DefendOurConstitution @ 105
The guy is retiring, but still won’t vote for Americans. On Habeas, or on Webb’s amendment. He should be ashamed of himself.
cc in nc @ 111
As I said, not making much sense…
Cliff Varnell @ 114
chieu hoi
raven @ 109
I never saw that either. Mine’s the regular old heavy M-14. Nice weapon, very accurate.
Maybe it’s something they were trying out and it didn’t make it?
I would imagine most of that movie takes place in the A Shau and the area around Khe Sanh?
Warner was great at the Petraeus/Crocker hearing. He’s relapsed…
raven@118:
707
Senator Warner now showing evidence that his decision to retire was a wise one.
Biodun @ 120
Bush must have called him into the oval office and read him the riot act (or perhaps it was Cheney). I have no idea what they have on him. He seems to have nothing to lose and even appeared to ask Petraeus hard questions last week.
raven @ 111
I got that reference. Calling Mr. Kline and Ms. Curtis.
jayt @ 122
I wish they wouldn’t stay past their “sell by” dates and make themselves look so bad. Byrd seems to be still sharp.
Warner: 3-star generals. Who(?). The HoJoe tactic naming unameable generals.
Warner is saying we can’t bring the troops home because that’ll stop us from bringing the troops home.
Oh - OK.
raven @ 81
Raven, you’ve gotta remember that J Edgar Hoover was still around when you were in service. The powers that be probably still have a long dossier on you courtesy of J. Edgar. Remember, I’ve seen your shirtless picture! Bet that’s even in your file! Protesting much? (Just kidding, of course!)
Instead of introducing his own amendment, Warner is using parts of it to refute Webb’s Amendment. Curious tactic here.
james @ 120
I don’t think so, all flat, lot’s of paddies. I actually saw it the week before I left in 68. It’s really quite good, no BS narration, 97 days in the bush with these guys. They are on a medcap and a duece and a half (6 by) rolls through the ville. A minute later it hits a big mine. I wasn’t a grunt, I was a truck driver but I wonder what I was thinking when I saw that flick when I was 18 and on my way!
Ann in AZ @ 129
I have always operated on the assumption that they have me wired. In fact, I have the Freedom of Information Act files on the VVAW that have meeting at our house listed. The agents would come with earphones in and say, we’re vets!
Helen @ 127
He’s been hitting the sauce and vi*gr* again. Somebody get the hook.
Warner saying that the Webb Amendment to bring troops home for a while could get in the way of bringing soldiers home.
Do these guys even listen to themselves?
Irrefutable logic: The 6 month surge (that has now lasted 9 months and must last another 9 months) is yielding so much success that we can draw down 2% of the forces by Christmas, but Webb amendment will make it impossible to reduce troops at all.
WTF?
Warner: I don’t think there are any fronts in Iraq…
WTF?
Ann in AZ @ 19
While the past is interesting, it’s the present that matters. With many family members able to serve in today, not one Bush is willing to step forward and really serve. Members of the British Royal Family don’t even have it as good as the Bush family.
Biodun @ 136
No static defense lines.
Warner: I don’t want to go into greater detail…
(Please don’t. Just DON’T.)
james @ 107
Wayyyyy too broad a statement, and flat-out wrong, james, imo.
Highly reminiscent of the favorite winger charge that “all of them, both sides of the aisle, are equally guilty.” - frequently trotted out whenever some repub. gets cornered by hizzown truthiness-gapping.
I bet that’s just plain NOT gonna fly around here. Say, why are you here anyway, if nothing is worth the bother….. ?
Dear Senator Warner:
Please “surge” your retirement date.
Thank you,
jayt
raven @ 138:
Ah. Got it. Thanks!
DefendOurConstitution @ 135
The logic is, if Webb passed, we’d have to leave the troops over there because if they came home, they couldn’t go back over there.
Which means it is no logic but that never stopped anyone in Washington before.
Cliff Varnell @ 113
why don’t you guys just get a room?
jayt @ 140
Love it jayt! :)
Could it be a guaranteed book deal or some going away pork he’s been promised?
Adie @ 144
byte
McCain STFU.
blah, blah, blah McCain back again? How much longer do we have to listen to this windbag?
dakine01 @ 142
What they’re scared about is the defection #s once the troops get back home. They should be scared. Do you fuckers see what you have done? Do you care? Answer: uh nope.
raven @ 131
Do you find this more true today than in the early 70s when Nixon nearly went nuts with the protests? When J Edgar was so actively trying to undermine the Constitution “for our own good?”
Mccain: all of us our appreciative of all that Warner has gone through to come around to our way of thinking.
Oh please.
Jeez; McCain “hopes” the situation improves.
Suck up.
Could it be that there are enough Republicans voting yes and they need to keep the McCain farce going so that Mitch McConnel has time to twist some arms?
When do Democrats start to *refute* this Warner/McCain tag team?
I think it’s Warner and McCain who should get that room.
This yo-yo between McCain and Warner is simply stupid.
DefendOurConstitution @ 154
That was my determination this a.m. when I found out that Reid had softened on the hard exit date.
Shorter McCain (no pun intended)
Everything we’ve done to date in Iraq has been horribly fucked up - but *this time*, we’re gonna get it right. Really. We will. I promise. Trust me. It’s gonna be great.
Three similar posts with the same time stamp. We’re really in sync here at FDL.
raven @ 146
From Tarpley:
This is not of interest here?
Ann in AZ @ 151
They are much more media savvy now and the “protests” are nearly non-existent. I know it will get Jonathon all riled up but there were millions of people in the streets from 68-72 or so. I’m sure the heat is on but it’s more subtle. There is no “movement” IMHO.
Warner keeps defending the Webb Amendment.
Biodun @ 157
Strait outta Monty Python?
Cliff Varnell @ 162
It’s the talk about heat that has her riled up I spect.
“Unconstitutional”??? How DARE YOU!
Where are you watching this??????
Obamarama!
I’m hoping that the D’s are letting the Warner/McCain show go on is that the whip count is showing that it is unnecessary to jump in and stop it.
Maybe they’ve got the votes, and don’t care about letting this mindless prattle continue?
Does Obama have a mustache?
Biodun @ 163
He’s hedging his bet. I really think the Rs are trying to bring back some defectors that have determined to vote aye. We’ll see. This is huge.
raven @ 167
CSPAN2
raven @ 167
Cspam 2
How long is the current term of an enlistment? Four years? Does it depend on which branch of the service?
P.S. My niece’s step-son was given a “bonus” of $10K for enlisting–he is a mechanic (trained specifically for high performance vehicles, I think) so they trained him to work on tanks and other mobile military vehicles. BTW, the young man only has one kidney.
carmen @ 171
No.
raven @ 167
CSPA - http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs.....p;Code=CS2
Obama’s now in full campaign mode…
Biodun @ 175
Doesn’t it look like it though? I know what he’s saying is much more important, but….just wondered.
Ann in AZ @ 174
A co-worker of mine told me this a.m. that her boyfriend/fiance got a $40k bonus to go back to Iraq. Of course, he took it and will be shipped out next month.
I like that Obama is on right side of this issue, but he’s just talking. Where’s the fire he’s supposed to have? Where’s the Obama that spoke in Boston in 2004?
Biodun @ 177
What’s he saying?
raven @ 165
I don’t own a gun. I haven’t touched a firearm in 35 years. But I support all the Bill of Rights, including a well-regulated militia which excludes private armies like Blackwater.
btw, as far as getting a room goes, I may be a pervert but I’m straight.
DefendOurConstitution @ 176
thx
kdh22 @ 179
I certainly don’t object to them getting the money but when is it going to run out? We are spending billions and there must be a bottom to this pit - your money and mine.
Cliff Varnell @ 161
Sorry. I simply have a hard time thinking your AKratta-tat-tat is gonna be much help in a world “catastrophe of gigantic proportions.” But that’s just wimpy me talking.
You guys all line up, and I’ll hide behind ya. Yeah, that should work. I feel safer already. ymmv
Cliff Varnell @ 182
Don’t sweat the small shit, everybody has something to say.
Twain @ 184
The money has already run out. We’re not spending money - we’re racking up debt. And that can go on and on forever.
Christy’s upstairs…
You guys all line up, and I’ll hide behind ya. Yeah, that should work. I feel safer already. ymmv
whoope teee dooo
raven:
60 minutes did a feature on Bush’s bailout when he was president. And my uncle, a Navy tailgunner, said it was common knowledge in the fleet that Bush had killed his crew with his cowardice and that his daddy Prescott had had to pick him up and take him home.
All right Obama! Finally said it. We must first admit what a failure this fiasco has been!
That’s right, just like an alcoholic, we must first admit that we have a problem. The Republicans want to have it both ways, say they know it’s a mistake for political cover yet at the same time give the White House cover by not calling for Bush to admit failure.
DefendOurConstitution @ 154
Possible explanation for Chambliss’ quick return from whatever emergency was more important than the constitution?
brendan @ 190
OK, like I said, I surrender. Maybe Adie can take the point.
raven @ 130
I checked and they operated in the eastern area near Danang, south of there in Hoi An, and Tam Ky. My unit was eventually housed at Danang by the general’s quarters apart from everyone else…seems like everywhere there’s a recon unit we’re kept away from the rest of the guys.
The area that was shown on that film is probably along Highway One near the old French Fort. Hoi An and Quang Ngai were very picturesque areas…Hoi An was right on the Red China Sea. Most of that area is flat and uninhabited to the west out towrads An Hoa and the Que Son mountains.
james @ 194
Oh stop you are offending people, this isn’t a
sportsmilitary blog!raven @ 195
want a copy of it, I burned it onto a DVD.
didn’ mean to get you guys all riled. done here.
got the point. peace - in our front yard, moving outwards… ;->
raven@195:
Sorry, GI
Isn’t this Chambliss defending the troops the same one that got elected by questioning the patriotism of a real war hero? Yup that’s right; after he received a medical deferment (4-F) because of a bad knee he proceeded to attack the valor and patriotism of Max Cleland - a real war hero who lost both legs defending our country.
“A vicious enemy that seeks to destroy everything good about America”
That would be Bush Republicans.
DefendOurConstitution @ 199
yes.
I hope they move to a vote soon. If they don’t I might throw the monitor out the window!
raven @ 186Don’t sweat the small shit, everybody has something to say.
8->
Adie @ 197
got yer back
out
Good morning FDL - or perhaps it is afternoon elsewhere. A reminder I’m really not the center of the universe.
I’m in the mountains and kept away from the computer. Just enjoyed long walks, visiting neighbors, relaxing, gardening, preparing the grounds for winter. How nice that I can do this.
Our military in Iraq has a different reality so my conscience woke me up and insisted I call both my senators to support the Webb Amendment. So, here I am on FDL reading back threads and calling my hardworking Democrats here who spend most of their doing leg work to turn the state around but do very little activism. Hopefully more calls get to the Republican senator.
So now the Republicans have run out of real veterans and they bring in Kit Bond, who did not serve in Vietnam (who knows how he got his deferments?), but has a son in Iraq. Veteran by proxy.
why is he defending FISA? What the hell does FISA have to do with Webb amendment? I guess changing the topic again?
“Unfortunately the MO for some is attacking military leaders … for own political gain”
WTF Kit Bond? Why didn’t you ask this question when Bush attacked Kerry’s military record? Why didn’t you stand up for Max Cleland when the chicken-shit Chambliss overtly called him a coward? Why didn’t you stand up when Shinseki was forced to retire becasuse he told the truth about troop levels required? Oh that’s right, you gained politically all those (an many other) times.
“”"They are living, breathing human beings who deserve to be treated with the respect that they have earned with their blood and sacrifice.”"”
And that’s why the left calls them names like Betrayus? Calls them traitors to the country.
Don’t try to change your spots now tigress..
This war parallels with slavery….back then elected officals looked the other way while the brutality, human pain and suffering continued. Today, elected officials are repeating that behavior as the carnage continues in Iraq.
It is hard to imagine that here we are in the 21st century and still did not learn any of the lessons of slavery.
I wonder how members of congress after casting a vote to continue the killing in Iraq, finds it in their heart to come out of chamber and justify that vote often with a smile.
DefendOurConstitution @ 51
I think the Republicans are scared to vote to give the troops home time because they think Bush will ignore it and essentially declare himself dictator, above the law. That would put Republicans in a spot they don’t want to face.
For Bush to claim that in war time he has extraordinary powers as CiC and that he isn’t actually required to uphold Law if he feels it interferes with fighting a war then he is simply saying Congress and the Court are irrelevant and dissolved. But then, he’s already done that in several ways, hasn’t he?