Over at My Left Nutmeg, we find that the Man Who Named Himself Dangerstein has advice for the anti-war movement:
To most war opponents, the blame increasingly lies with the Democratic leadership in Congress, for not taking a hard enough line with President Bush and not fighting to cut off war funding. And their frustration is visibly bubbling over — the provocative group Code Pink, for example, has actually taken to protesting outside House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s home in San Francisco in recent days
But there is a growing feeling among many Democrats, particularly within the D.C. establishment, that just the opposite is true. They may not say it publicly, for fear of arousing the grass roots’ wrath, but the realist wing of the party seems to think the Democrats’ biggest problem on Iraq these days is not that there’s too much Bush Lite but that there’s too much Bush Left.
Under this view, too many anti-war activists, not satisfied with berating the president, have too often wound up behaving like him. They have gone beyond fighting back and holding the Decider accountable to adopting the same divisive, dogmatic and ultimately destructive style of politics that Democrats have been decrying for the past seven years, with the same counterproductive results.
Right-o, Dangerman. If MoveOn, the blogs and all those crazy lefties who were right about the war in the first place had all just shut up and stopped holding the feet of Democrats to the fire over this, no doubt the war would be over by now. Why didn’t you tell us sooner?
Thirdparty has a note for concern troll Dangerstein:
Not many people in this country did as much last year to ensure the continuation of the Iraq War as Dan Gerstein.
So, sorry, Dan. You don’t get to give the anti-war movement your helpful pointers.
You wanted it, you worked for it, you got it. Lieberman’s war is your war.
Wear it well, Danger Dan.
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The Accidental Zeddist
La!
Wear that albatross proudly, Dan.
?
Hello…
what a numbskull…
JANE!
(((JANE)))
Jane
(..she is the girl with brain…)
Can I have some of what he’s smoking? Because it looks to be some seriously good stuff.
singles?
I will continue to hold my party’s feet ‘in’ the fire, if necessary.
behindthefall @ 9
Locked ‘em up ;-)
Dangermouse will convince many in the Democratic Leadership to join him in competitive pearl-clutching. Naturally, this helps Republicans.
Sigh.
Go back to your rat hole Dan,I certainly don’t need any pointers from the likes of you.
Seems he has a case of Liebernaires disease.
My lady suggests I crank up the pressure on our party. Lord… this woman knows me.
Goons. My favorite word of the week.
Bustednuckles @ 13
Nurse Donna B’s in charge of the Liebernaires ward. Dan’ll be in good hands.
Hmm…maybe a new olympic event. Competitive pearl-clutching and swooning. Points for style and pathos. In costume, of course.
Arrr! I can’t believe DangerDoofus feels qualified t’give advice. His ego be enormous. Make him walk t’plank!
Dangarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhstein!
It is time to face the DLC. They must be dealt with.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 20
Yes. Throw down the freakin’ gauntlet.
They live in a small world of cocktail parties and schmooz fests. That is what their lives are like in D.C. My parents were diplomats in DC when I was a kid, and every single weekend, and during the week, all they did was attend huge cocktail parties with other diplomats, Congress, and the WH. My mom had to put on parties for 400 people…often. I’m telling the truth.
You know, he has a point. When we make reasonable, well informed arguements and ask our members of Congress to hear our points of view and to respond to our questions, we’re being just like the President.
How incredibly rude of people to express their opinions! To demand representation! Wow, that is so much like George Bush.
I guess it’s time to wipe that smirk off our faces. If we really oppose George Bush and support Democracy and the country, we should just shut the hell up. (And support guys like Lieberman).
Talk about completely Out Of Touch. What, do these people live under a rock? (Or just under Iraq. heh.)
Have the Lieberkinder enlisted yet?
The Democrats and Republicans continue to “spin” their responsibility for the tragedy that THEY created in Iraq….. Instead of taking responsibility for their actions they demand that the Iraqi government “step up to the plate”. And then when they do (Blackwater must go) they undermine them.
Move on called all of them out, the Progressives and Conservatives are calling them out..and they are going on the attack. It’s called DENIAL
LS @ 22
I have no doubt. My late mother worked for three governors in Cali.
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win.”
WE HOPE
AP – President Bush said Wednesday that a law hastily passed in August to temporarily give the government more power to eavesdrop without warrants on foreign terror suspects must be made permanent and expanded.
Dangerstein gives political consultants a bad name.
I think it is so very eentearesting that Dangerstein overlooks the campouts by the DitchMitch crew on that Congresscritter’s lawn.
You know, anti-war movements can be as bipartisan as pro-war movements.
It’s not just for Democrats anymore!
Is this what the fight over the Vietnam War was like? Years and years of frustrating resistance that seemed to have no effect, and then all of a sudden it became obvious to the nation what had to happen?
I don’t know which of the current politicians will be judged responsible for the Iraq debacle by history (beyond the obvious Bush junta), but how incredibly stupid are these politicians? Do they not understand what they are doing or why? Or are they fully aware and are just some of the most banally evil people this country has produced in decades?
Maybe the insane warmongers like Lieberman are so blood-engorged to start a war with Iran in the hopes it will erase the failure of their Iraq Occupation support. Talk about the ultimate example of going from bad to worse.
The Middle East is absolutely ready to explode.
Israel’s security cabinet today declared Gaza an “enemy entity”, paving the way for possible cuts in fuel and water to the Hamas-controlled territory.
Maybe activists need to get into the party circuit in DC, and start changing the conversation from within, while they are all drinking. They drink a lot. That’s when they are most vulnerable to letting their guard down and maybe listening to reason for a change. Just a thought.
Peterr @ 30
Political consultants give Democrats a bad name.
Peterr @ 30
Politicians giving Dangerstein MONEY for his advice should automatically disqualify them from holding office.
Just saying.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 29
Just saw that headline on yahoo news. Just about spewed coffee.
Honest to Fuckin’ Pete…
How many hours to a good dose of TRex snark to alleviate the bad news OD?
FunnyDiva
Oklahoma kiddo @ 29
Not until we know who is spying on us – like SRA International. If McConnell lied about spying on war protesters and other Americans, he needs to be called on it – now. There are other companies that have assisted the government on intel than the phone companies.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 33
Bu’ush is gettin’ a chubbie at the prospect.
First, let me take this rare opportunity to say MoveOn.org.
As to Dangerman:
Au contraire, there’s been way too little berating of the Dems coming from the left, especially if you only include MoveOn.org. Oh no, I said it again! No sleeping with the fishes tonight. Thanks goodness for that.
(rant)
But seriously, what are people like Dan thinking? Are they supporting the awful horror of Bush and Cheney? Are they scared to lose any hard-won (or stolen) power? What? How can any thinking person not a complete power-mad mental midget not be 100% up in arms over the Bush war on Iraq, on the Constitution, on our own people? I agree about the pearl-clutching, ’cause I can’t see any reason to act like this except to preserve the dignity of not fighting. Getting one’s hands dirty standing up for the principle of freedom and democracy just isn’t what one *does* in High Society. I guess.
Yeah, Dan, that’s right – the issue for you is politics. You obviously never think about the troops, do you, idiot.
Velcommen to the rechts wing of the democratic party, the one that forgot their base, the laborers, the bricklayers, the people who make things work, to suck the c69ks of big business.
Keep calling
Durham Dan Abrams general manager at msgop, had his little panties in a twist for the his former schools frat boy problem. he decried the media circus the rush to judgement
and now we find out he didn’t care about the same thing for everyone just white upper middle class frat boys from Duke…something he once was
but Abrams who professed his love for Kim Goldman certainly has gotten everything wrong on his speculation on the current oj story. Not one thing he has speculated on has turned out to be true.
we need a new phrase to replace “harm’s way”
that just grates on my nerves.
There was a diary on Kos this morning, but it was quickly removed because I think the link and information in a link was unsubstantiated and was the basis for the diary (it had to do with Blackwater)…anyway (I have it)…in the comments, a commenter made a really good point. The commenter said something to the effect that the Blackwater security “lockdown” of the Green Zone has most likely completely changed the dynamics of all military operations in Iraq, because of the incitement of the Iraqi population; thereby making it completely impossible to provide security for the troops, food convoys, everything. Right now, the “war” is almost at a standstill. It may be a weird twist of fate that ends this occupation.
LS @ 46
well Hallelujah! if we can bring the destruction and killing to an end, and if this is the way it happens…
Dangerstein – a democratic strategist. No thanks.
He writes:
the realist wing of the party seems to think the Democrats’ biggest problem on Iraq these days is not that there’s too much Bush Lite but that there’s too much Bush Left.
The realist wing Dan is referring to is Bush Lite. Bush Lite kills any legislation that would restore civil liberties, checks and balances, and fiscal responsiblity. Bush Lite (aka the realist wing) endeavors to kill legislation that would reduce troop numbers or let troops rest.
That’s all we’ve got in the D party -Bush Lite wing vs. Anti-War and poseurs in the Anti-war wing.
Rice backs Israel decision on Gaza
The US has mirrored the decision of Israel and declared the Gaza Strip to be a “hostile entity”.
“Hamas is indeed a hostile entity. It is a hostile entity to the US as well,” Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, said during a visit to the Middle East.
Rice said the US will not “abandon” the Palestinians.
“We will not abandon the innocent Palestinians in Gaza and indeed will make every effort to deal with their humanitarian needs,” Rice said during a news conference in occupied Jerusalem on Wednesday with Tzipi Livni, her Israeli counterpart.
And I have a bridge to sell you too.
Re: the vote on troop rotation, what is amazing to me is the failure of the Joint Chiefs to speak up and tell Congess that Bush is destroying the Army and the rest of the armed forces. They are entitled by law, the Goldwater-Nichols act, to speak up in opposition to the administration whenever they think that appropriate, but they are gutless wonders, presiding over the decimation of the soldiers who are supposed to salute them.
I forwarded one of the earlier FDL posts today to my dad, he sent me this in response.
Dick Durbin is being a good democrat on the senate floor right now
Pup@32
No, Vietnam went like this: lots of marches rolling into bigger and bigger marches (police violence increasing against marchers). Nixon won presidency swearing he had a secret plan to end the war. He didn’t really. The the tsuname of protest ingulfed the nation. Then he went downstairs at the white house with a glass of scotch and talked to the previous presidents’ portraits.
A warning to the next Demo President.
1,604 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen oklahomakiddo and the Firepup Patriots:
“It’s time to face the DLC. They must be dealt with.”
Brother kiddo, the only way you kill an AstroTurf corporate entity like the DLC is by makin’ their candidates and subsidiaries pariahs to the public. The DLC through the Clintons killed the anti-fascist core of the Democratic Party in the 1990’s and now we gotta rebuild it and politically kill off the corporatist candidates who would pretend to leadership.
The way we do that is by stickin’ the sharp stick in the behinds of the Fiengolds, Dodds, Edwards, Gores, Durbins, Leahys…well, you get it. Let the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party know we got their backs and they lose without us…don’t let ‘em sit this one out. We’re beginnin to see the effects of that strategy in the votes called on habeas and the Webb amendment. Now we gotta find a way to inject direct action into the nominating campaign to expose Mrs. Clinton and her fascist politics…Code Pink and some other folks ken light the fire (she already co-opted MoveOn by not trashin the ad) and follow her everywhere on the campaign trial. Dodd and Edwards simply MUST coordinate to isolate Mrs. Clinton and Biden on the war and warrantless wiretappin’…and of course it would help if Al Gore announced that enough was enough and he was gunna resuscitate the Democratic Party.
Maybe some guerrilla theater…let’s have someone throw water on Mrs. Clinton and maybe she’ll jest melt away before our very eyes!
Butcher right, as usual, brother kiddo…the DLC must go. Maybe people are beginnin’ to get jest how big a fight this is and how long we have had fascist government in place here.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET THE BASTARDS UP!!
nevermind
I haven’t had time to read the comments on the previous threads and I apologize if this has already been posted. I’m glad that Harmon finally said this publicly, but it’s been almost a month…..Congress knew the day they passed the new law that the admin had used a fake terra alert (hey, we knew it immediately but apparently they’re rather slow on the uptake)to ’scare’ them into passing the law. I don’t suppose the MSM will take note of it.
http://rawstory.com//news/2007….._0919.html
Anybody just catch that on the Senate floor?
It’s going to take 60 votes to pass the Webb amendment. Carl Levin just offered a Unanimous Consent agreement worked out with the Republicans that will line up two votes: on Webb’s amendment and on the “McCain/Graham” meaningless gesture, with both measures required to reach 60 votes for passage.
No objection was heard.
The Webb amendment (in a previous form) went down to defeat in July, in a cloture vote, having failed to reach 60 votes. No price was evidently paid by Republicans for that, the measure was pulled by Reid and now, here we are again. This time at least the vote will be on record for or against the actual bill – but the McCain/Graham gesture of a resolution will be their PR cover this time and pull just enough Republicans off the Webb amendment to prevent its passage, I predict. But maybe I’m wrong, and somehow the Democrats will pull this off with enough Republican support.
As Kagro X has pointed out – these ‘painless filibuster’ 60-vote UCs seem to serve only the interests of the Republicans – that’s how FISA got rammed through – so I sincerely hope that this time there’s a legitimate strategic/tactical reason for this particular UC on the part of the Senate Democrats.
The Webb amendment vote is coming up at about 5:25 p.m., I believe.
There are a couple of reports out there that there were possibly as many as 28 killed by Blackwater.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/recent/
Notice that the Blackwater shooting occurred on Sunday, and the report says 28 were killed. On Saturday, 11 were killed by a car bomb outside a bakery. I think that is where the 11 is coming from.
Dangerstein strikes out again!
When will they reach a vote on the Webb amendment? *gnawing fingernails* I thought they said 5pm.
mui @ 58
circa 5:25 now, I think
pow wow @ 56
Yep. The goppers, with the quiet acquiescence of the senate democrats, have managed to redefine a majority as no less than 60%.
On Dan’s Corporate site, he lists the following his among his proudest accomplishments:
http://www.dangerstein.com/biography.html
Ott @ 60
Can someone explain how that’s done?
Ott @ 60
When the GOP was in control they called it a filibuster every chance they got (which it is), and said it like it was a dirty word. What the hell is wrong with the Democratic leaders? They are so unbelievably dense when it comes to messaging.
Dangerstein, he’s such a comedian. Add a pair of Ferragamo stilletos, a Rickie Freeman outfit and we’d have Eddie Izzard without the talent, humor or self-awareness.
Dangerstein giving advice to Democrats is like Darth Cheney talking about the primacy of the US Constitution and the rule of law.
puppethead @ 63
make them filibuster!
Ott @ 60
Exactly what was the purpose of this gesture…
Are the Dems shooting themselves in the foot?…
(hello folks, how are is the lake today?….
Listening to my Reid now, what a guy…)
Ott @ 60
is there any way to stop this? and if not, why the heck weren’t the dems doing this last year?
I’m not convinced that Democrats bashing Democrats for not stopping the war isn’t exactly what the Repug machine wants to happen. They’re trying to make Republican filibusters seem like Democratic inaction on this and everything else. Sure, hold the feet of the Democrats over the fire, but don’t forget who got us into this mess and who keeps us there. It’s not just Bush.
selise @ 67
The only way to stop this is to change Dem leadership. Currently, they are colorless cowards who still allow the Republics to dominate government. They can neither govern nor control news cycles.
Wolf is interviewing Odierno. He asked him if they agreed with the Webb amendment. Like a good “soldier” working for the Decider, he said that while they would like the troops to have more time home, they don’t want legislation to “paint them into a corner that could affect troop deployment”….So…the gauntlet has fallen. It ain’t gonna happen. I hope I have to eat my words.
1,604 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen itwasntme and the Firepup Patriots:
A bit of a history lesson, “…lots of marches rolling into bigger and bigger marches…” ended the Vietnam War. If Hubert Humphrey had broken with Johnson on the campaign trail there wouldn’t a been a battle at the ‘68 convention and Humphrey woulda been president, but he didn’t so Nixon won and the anti-war movement went on and rolled right over the poor, paranoid bastard.
But make no mistake, if it weren’t for “lots of marches rolling into bigger and bigger marches” we would still be in Vietnam and China would be a nuclear waste dump. Why do ya think that BOTH parties are scared to death of demonstrations, protests and direct democratic action??!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND GET IT RIGHT, SOME OF US LIVED IT!!
GeorgeSimian @ 68
I believe Mr. Elaine Chao, aka Mitch McConnell, has stated that explicitly. I.e. their strategy is to block everything, and then accuse the Democrats of being a ‘do-nothing’ Congress.
LS @ 70
Without a Dem leadership change, I think you’ll be eating nothing.
Badwater,
who would you replace Reid with?
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 72
Yeah…I’m not happy with DINO’s but I’m wary of putting Rethugs back in power by lashing out too much at them. I’d rather replace Rethugs with Dems in preference to going after DINO’s. But then, my thought is that if the Dems are in clear majority, the DINO’s will cease to be problems, since they tend to just follow the leader…
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 72
Then the Dems need to make sure the title of “obstructionist” goes hand in hand with the GOP strategy….
Elliott @ 74
feingold!
Elliott @ 74
I’m not sure, but there must be someone willing to do more than hand wringing.
A kid, a 30 yr. old kid, just over the county line from my neck of the Ozarks, in NW Arkansas, had enough last week and decided to hitchhike to DC for the protests. He just got home and posted about a half dozen photos with promise of a story/post coming soon..
Hitchhiking For Peace (Picture Essay)
twȝk @ 77
Wahoo! I admire Reid but Feingold would be literally a huge gift as Majority leader!!!!
Voting begins now on the webb amendment.
Webb Amendment vote starting now.
twȝk @ 77
that works for me!
Feingold would be an outstanding replacement for Reid.
I envision an ad, with a pair of well-heeled, wingtips, kicking a can down the road. In the background is a depiction of life in Iraq with all its horrors.
The symbolism would be apparent. That the heels are those of Bush, and his accomplices.
I’m usually very optimistic, but I don’t think we are going to see an end to this nightmare until 2009. Unless. Things on the ground in Iraq go beyond control of the powers that be.
IMHO, that is conceivably possible.
Don’t know who this “Dan” guy is-other than bein a self described democratic consultant- but what he seems to be saying is that dems aren’t going to force Clusterfuck out of Iraq without gooper votes- well DUH- there’s news.
The fact is- dems aren’t going to force troops out of Iraq PERIOD while Clusterfuck’s in office. Goopers would love to have some kind of bill that would allow em to vote against the war in some way without really doing ANYTHING AT ALL to end it…
The dem leadership challenge is to NOT GIVE EM THAT BILL.
Eureka Springs @ 79
One of the good guys. ;0)
St McCain had one of his flashback moments and showed himself to be the delusional IDIOT that he really is on every front….He is a warmonger and dangerous. I can’ wait to see him lose badly in the ReTHUG primary.
So we can’t end the war because too many of us lefties want to end the war?
I think we should have mandatory drug screens for “Democratic” strategists.
rwcole @ 86
rw — Gerstein was Lieberman’s flack in the CT race, lying his tail off for Short Ride Joe. ‘Nuff said.
Frank Probst @ 89
Or check for Kook-aid levels in their bloodstreams.
Frank Probst @ 89
Don’t you love that pretzel logic?….
Goopers had a decision to make- whether to join dems in fighting Clusterfuck on the war- or to lay their futures in Clusterfuck’s lap and rubber stamp him again..They decided in favor of the latter- now it’s the dems jobs to make sure they pay at the polls for that decision..
The decision about the war is about over until 09.
I wish I could go….maybe soon
Have you seen this site?
http://www.codepink4peace.org/article.php?id=1773
here it comes….
please make it happen….
cross fingers……
Ms. Snowe votes aye-no-aye-no- oh hell, I’ll get back to ya.
Franco @ 88
You and me both! He has falsely made a career out of being a “maverick”, while proving himself nothing more than a Bush wannabe.
Hegel voted Aye.
That’s one.
Frank Probst @ 89
Maybe we should all start rooting for the war. Yeah!!! More war, more war, USA, USA. Leave the troops where they are until they finish the job. Go for it. Bring it on. We’re all going to change our votes to Republican. Yay. D’ya think the Dems would get scared and listen?
11 – 9 after the initial call
eh, that’s kool-aid.
1,604 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Badwater and the Firepup Patriots:
“Who would you replace Reid with?”
Durbin, Feingold, Dodd, Hark in…get it? If the progressives in the senate organize right now around habeas, Iraq, wiretappin’ and “the economy,stupid” they put the heat on Reid and Clinton (Clinton pulls Reid’s zipper) and get a twofer…they set up new leadership in ‘09 and they isolate Mrs. Clinton on the campaign trail behind Bush’s war.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION THERE ARE NOW MORE OF US THAN THERE ARE OF THEM!!
Peterr
Sounds about right. Thanks.
yellowsnapdragon @ 101
Kook-aid works, honestly…
I love the North Wind
Things are really starting to percolate.
Netanyahu: I congratulated Olmert on Syria operation
How in the hell could any Rep vote against the troops on this one?
thune – no, bennett- no, cochran – no, grassley – no, lott – no
Peterr @ 98
Wonder if the troops in Iraq can watch this Senate session?
Remember all the times we heard “deserves an up or down vote”? Why are we not hearing that from the dems?
coleman – aye
brown – no
stevens – no, graham – no, chambliss- no, coleman – AYE
Stevens of Alaska soon to be EX Senator, CONVICTED AND IN JAIL ….NO
jayt @ 111
Was that Sherrod Brown?
selise @ 67
Yes, there’s a way to stop this.
One Senator must stand up and say these magic words: “I object.”
So you can see why it never happens.
Kathleen @ 109
If they’ve got web access, they can check C-SPAN like the rest of us.
Ott @ 108
They have invented a fictional math that if the troops stay in for 15 months…and stay home for 15 months…somehow…they won’t have troops there for 3 months, and they can’t fill the imaginary gap, since it has been 12 months up until now.
Basic IQ deficit.
Boneheads.
How are we looking so far?….
Can’ we all just get along?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 106
Arrogant socio-paths
Kathleen @ 115
I think so.
coburn – no, gregg – no, martinez – no, corker – no.
I doubt brown voted no (didn’t hear it either), he had a long speech in favour of it earlier today.
I’M NOT GAY Craig…..NO
Why does cspan keep having a banner about funding? Is this an amendment to a funding bill?
LS @ 99
Maybe a better long term strategy would be a jujutsu move pushing the whole body politic over the right edge.
Sununu AYE — that’s two.
sununu – aye
collins – aye
craig – no, sessions – no, sununu – aye, roberts – no, lamar! – no
Peterr @ 90
Yeah, let him go down with/on joe.
Collins AYE — that’s three.
I doubt Sherrod Brown voted no == and Brown’s a common last name. I’d think there’s more than one in the Senate.
Specter NO
specter – no
lugar – no – shit!!
If this Webb Amendment goes down. Webb should write up some “bring back the draft” legislation
http://www.topix.net/forum/sou…..B19PERJLMP
Then we will watch all of the people who voted “no” vote “no” again.
LS @ 34
Read your entry above, then wondered who it was who was attending these parties, whinking that they must be pretty well pickled most of their waking hours. This comment of yours seems to confirm that.
What’s the alcohol consumption like among this in-crowd?
Enough to impair judgment permanently?
Is there an issue of rampant alcoholism in government that ought to be looked at, ’cause something’s not right these people’s neurons.
collins – aye, specter – NO, brownback – no, burr – no, demint – no, cornyn – no, lugar – no
Lugar NO
Looks like the GOP is holding firm . . .
So I start reading the post and I tense. Then I relax. But I still have to ask -When do the dems take off the gloves?
What a fucking joke. over and over the dem leadership has been lulled by the “moderate gop leaders” “Statesman like Warner and Specter are both traitors. Yup Traitors. I don’t doubt for one second that warner promised to support the bill.Not one second.Specter- how many times in thepast three years has he pontificated and the press has sucked on his shrivelled teat?
If I see Reid wringing his hands I think I will destroy the TV. My god- We need to break the strangle hold of the media and get the truth out. And ya know what- whats gotten the most press? MOVE ON!
And I ask again- What did they say that was wrong?
OK, two scared wingnut “ayes”…now jest hold yer fuckin caucus tagether, Reid and we’ll put a stake thru the heart a this corporate war!!
Kagro X @ 114
thanks kagro x – if someone did object, could the amendment still be brought up for a vote? and would it take a simple majority to pass?
i’m still pretty confused by the rules…
Smith AYE — that’s four
enzi – no, smith – aye, hutchison – no, warner – no, snowe – AYE,
Snowe – AYE That;s five
Peterr @ 137
yup. Not lookin’ good here…
Bring back the Draft
Ott @ 142
how reliable is that Snowe vote?
barasso – no, bond – no, voinovich – no, inhofe – no,
bayh – aye
murkowski – no
It is rumored that once upon a time the minority party actually had to filibuster in order to stop legislation from passing on a simple majority vote.
How primitive. Thank goodness the Democrats did away with that. And it sure was nice of them to do it without our even asking and without making a big fuss.
Signed,
Senate Republicans
Arrrghhh…
Murkowski…I’m going to jail too…..NO
LIEberman….NO
murkowski – no, allard – no, lieberman – no, dole – no
F*CKJOELIARMAN!
murkowski no?
Frank Probst @ 89
Maybe a brain scan to see if they exhibit strong conservative tendencies
http://www.latimes.com/news/sc…..ome-center
conrad – aye, shelby – no,
Trent and DiFi chatting it up.
fuck
Two no’s for Voinovich today. This is a guy who shed some tears during the Bolton nomination. He was worried about the message we were sending the world by sending someone like Bolton to the UN. We were basically giving other nations the finger, plain and simple!
Now these Senators who vote no against the troops having more down time are essentially giving the troops the finger. Suck it up guys and gals we are going to vote to run you in the ground, while we put your asses on the line for a lie based on a pack of lies.
Fuck me
S*H*I*T
count: 56 – 44, amendment withdrawn
I agree…
56 yea, 44 selfish ass kissing turds vote no.
Crap!
The leadership needs to hold a presser now and say the ReTHUGS don’t support the troops.
Okay, how did this happen?….
They needed sixty votes and only got 56….
Why were the majority rule changed prior to this vote?….
Why do the Republicans hate the troops?
Suit up all of the Senators who voted “no” and drop them off in Baghdad.
OH, shut up, John McCain! I don’t want ot hear from you.
I am not sure how much more “Straight Talk” I can stand!
NorskeFlamethrower @ 139
Ay laddies, where be the gold arrh!
and amen Norske
Ott @ 162
For God’s sake, Dems. MAKE THEM FILIBUSTER! If they don’t want the troops to have time out of combat zones, they should have to explain themselves to the American people.
STFU McCain
ticktock @ 167
The vote was technically on a motion to close debate, which requires 60 votes. This is a standard practice, not a trick only for this motion.
Kathleen @ 159
They probably all the the mantra Return on Success in their heads drooling over the cash investment which is iraq.
Two partisan-line votes today. How disappointing.
ticktock @ 167
What Digby said.
BULLSHIT MCCAIN. THE TROOPS ARE TELLING YOU TO GO CHENEY YOURSELF
McCain has turned into an old fool. He just betrayed those serving in Iraq
I’m up on the roof now
ticktock @ 167
I agree! They should have been made to fillibuster both of them to go to 60 votes to clear!
Arrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh
As soon as Snowe voted ‘AYE’, we knew. She would not have done so had it mattered.
Peterr @ 175
Yes, but they don’t have to withdraw the amendment. They could force the opposition to continue debating it. But they don’t. So essentially, 60 is now the minimum.
Elliott @ 180
Don’t jump!
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 178
Been sayin’ that myself for quite a while now. One of these days, someone in the Democratic leadership will hear it.
Elliott @ 180
Don’t jump, or the Republicans will win!
can Reid bring the Webb Amendment back up, like tomorrow?
Serious question here.
Goobliegook! Yea Webb!
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 178
Curious, will the apparent majority rule change be readjusted to 50% if the GOP has the chance to take the majority away from the Dems?….
jayt @ 187
I believe that it is possible to bring the amendment back, as the motion to close debate did not pass. To force another cloture vote, however, I think he needs to give something like 24 or 48 hours notice.
Now will the Rep’s all vote for the weakened amendment?
Elliott @ 180
I’m stuck on the wall of my room about 5 feet up and crawling.
ticktock @ 189
Of course!
Up on the roof (vid)
Sigh.
Suit up you lilly white assed old fucks who voted “no”. Put your own asses on the line for the lies told to these soldiers before the invasion.
First you send these mostly young people into a country that never attacked us based on false intelligence, send in too few troops, disband the Iraqi army, allow looting, etc etc, and now you vote against the troops once again by not giving them down time. WTF
It feels hopeless.
Well – the Senate Republicans now own this war lock, stock and barrel.
and thanks, Peterr.
This is the comment I posted over at Digby’s place where the post called for forcing a real filibuster:
I hear MoveOn is taking donations.
Peterr @ 175
is it standard practice that amendments are subject to a cloture vote?
I want the dems on EVERY news show tomorrow talking about these 2 votes. Roll out the PR people. Take out an ad. This shit has to stop.
Eureka Springs @ 184
I’ll take that into consideration.. )
But when do we get our country back?
*sniff*
On the plus side: Webb. Worth the work to get him in. A leader for tomorrow (’cause he almost did it today),
Where the hell is Larry Flynt!!!!!!
ticktock @ 189
Mais oui, bien sûr.
I’m glad that Webb is calling for the McCain-Warner-Graham bullshit excuse amendment to get voted down, because these ass-covering no-consequence amendments help shift the balance ever further.
It’s time, seriously, to make it clear to Reid that the GOP’s threat to filibuster is bullshit. Let them read out some phone books. Because the longer this goes on, the longer the ‘60-vote majority’ line becomes entrenched in the media, even though the same reporters were stenographing ‘up or down vote’ and ‘nuclear option’ in 2006.
I will now get on my bike and ride like a demon and burn this shit outta my system.
Peterr, ya might want to say a little prayer for anybody who finds themself in my way for the next hour or so…
Pardon me, but fuck this shit….
Not happy how this went down but at least was with a no finer bunch of feathered friends here at the lake….
Got to fly off now—-see you later….
selise @ 199
The trick of putting a weakened bill up to make the Rep’s look good has taken the thunder from Webbs bill
FYI, new post
LHP upstairs dears.
Oilfieldguy @ 198
I’m going to disagree with you here. Time constraints are not the issue here. They just took a month off, after all. The Senate can function pretty damn quick when they want to. And I’m not sure what, if anything, is more important than the war that needs Congress’s attention. The problem here is a simple lack of backbone.
On my way to donate to MoveOn. Someone has to stand up to these people.
ticktock @ 189
i think it is the majority that makes the rules at the begining of each congress (every 2 years)?
Peterr @ 175
Actually, Peterr, the Unanimous Consent Agreement (as described @ 56) is what required the 60 votes, not a filibuster. This was not a cloture vote to end debate, it was an actual up or down vote on the Webb amendment itself, which failed to pass (because the UC required it to have 60 votes rather than a simple majority without any actual filibuster by the Republicans).
pow wow @ 213
I’d like unanimous consent to revise my prior remarks . . .
Sorry about that — I got mixed up with the earlier vote. What a mess the Dems got suckered into.
Enough with agreements like this. If the GOP wants to hold things up by requiring 60 votes, make ‘em talk til the cows come home!
pow wow @ 213
What?!
Harry Reid is an idiot.
How can he be removed as The Majority Tool?
Nice disaster you’re running there, Harry.
Elliott @ 45
How about a new phrase for “blood and treasure”?
Marilyn In Texas @ 216
yeah, that one too
The McCain Gobblygook amendment fails 55-45 (?) but there’s a quorum call.
jayt @ 215
and every senator who didn’t object to the UC.
“”"who were right about the war in the first place”"”
Ahh, if I recall, the left wings main argument against liberating Iraq was that Saddam Hussein would use WMD against our troops.
That’s right, the left lied, they same as they claim Bush lied, they just used the lie in a different way.
Go bacdk and check the record. Most of the left was not arguing Saddam was an innocent of possesing WMD or thatcasualities would be serious low. The left claimed Saddam would USE his WMD on us and also argued that we would have 10,000 soldiers killed BEFORE we overthrew the Saddam Regime.
They were just as wrong.
At least Bush recognized Saddam as one of the leading terrorists and Iraq was Osama’s top issue in his war with us.
Here’s a goodie!! Fred Thompson is looking forward to the debate in NH. Problem is….it was canceled weeks ago!!
http://www.boston.com/news/loc…..idnt_know/
It appears that Cornyn is proposing a “We Love General Petraeus” amendment.
“Harry Reid is an idiot”…now there’s breakin’ news!!
He’s not jest an idiot…he’s an idiot with power!
neurophius @ 221
Oh, now it’s a “We Hate Moveon.org” amendment.
Frank said re my comment:
I’m going to disagree with you here. Time constraints are not the issue here. They just took a month off, after all. The Senate can function pretty damn quick when they want to. And I’m not sure what, if anything, is more important than the war that needs Congress’s attention. The problem here is a simple lack of backbone.
To a single mom who slipped while waiting tables and suffered injury, staring at an empty refrigerator and two hungry kids, Iraq may not be forefront in her mind.
To me and many others here, congress should clear their desks and do nothing more than stop this war.
My point was it is our job to expose these Republicans who obstruct merely for the purpose of denying any apparent success for Democrats, without regard for what is in America’s best interest, even if their actions are diametrically opposite of America’s best interest.
The plan is to hurt Democrats, even if it destroys America. We chafe at the notion Democrats do not do the same. Shame on us. We are the government, and if the media and our elected officials fail to point out the zeal with which Republicans march in lock step to destroy our country, our laws, our military and our morality in the world community, we must shoulder this burden ourselves and expose these realities with purchased advertisements.
We cannot sit back and whine about the failures of our chattering classes and weak-kneed Steny Hoyers that hold us in contempt. We must MoveOn.
Clean-up in aisle 220!
1,604 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Patriots:
The votes were called and in the process the enemies of democracy have been exposed… no matter what the outcome of the ‘08 elections, Harry Reid is toast and there will be new sheriffs in the Senate in ‘09. Take it to the bank!! These votes today will NOT save Sunnunu or Collins but they will hang the war around the Bushites necks.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET ‘EM OFF THE GROUND!!
This only strengthens the progressives in the Senate, now if we ken get ‘em ta cooperate on isolating Mrs. Clinton and MBNA Biden we’re in business!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…LOTSA FIGHT LEFT IN US!!
jayt @ 215
There are some rules of the Senate that are considered “permanent rules” and are not adjusted each session of Congress. The “filibuster” falls under one of those rules.
Poopalooze @ 220 –
total BS. the arguments were:
1. iraq does not pose a threat to us
2. let the inspectors do their job
3. an invasion of iraq will be a disaster for us and for iraqis, causing much unnecesary death, destruction and suffering
4. and even if the war hawks were right about chemical weapons – there is no risk to the USA unless we invade.
jeez. i was there… most every protest in nyc and dc in 2002 and 2003. organized buses, local protests and teach ins.
don’t know who told you that, but you are misinformed.
CTuttle you are one good Troll Ranger!!
Kick a*ss, sir!
CTuttle @ 226
nah, let him hang around. The “argument” is so ludicrous that it adds a bit of humor.
dakine01 @ 228
All the rules of the Senate continue from one Congress to the next. But there was no filibuster of the Webb amendment today. It was a straight unanimous consent agreement, arranged so that the Senate could avoid the unpleasantness of even the mini-filibusters the modern practice requires.
Rather than wait the requisite amount of time to file a motion for cloture, then wait for the motion to mature, and then lose it, the parties agreed instead to simply say that passage would require the same amount of votes as cloture, which saves everyone time and energy, and helps the Republicans say they didn’t filibuster anything, and helps the Democrats lose shit faster.
One of the things that frustrates me about the members of Congress that support something close to the status quo is how they are ducking their constituents.
Which of these reasonable moderates is going home to their districts and taking the heat at public forums?
Rep. Dan Lipinski (D-IL03) did a forum on Iraq at an exceedingly Right Wing American Legion post.
His next public forum is at 10 AM on a weekday for senior citizens.
Rep. Mark Kirk (R-IL10) uses all sorts of tricks to avoid answering constituent questions on Iraq.
So the establishment can fuck-off as far as I’m concerned. If the politicians are avoiding taking the heat on Iraq the elites should shut their pie-holes about anti-war activists coloring outside the lines.
Eureka: Thanks for reposting my story…and yes it will be updated with text within the next day or so to accompany the photos I took while upon my journey to DC. Any who wish to check it out just click on my site or the direct link is here.
MY TRIP TO DC..HITCHHIKING FOR PEACE
Until we are willing to do more than be keyboard commandos, until we are willing to do more than just write emails and perhaps pick up the phone and dial our representatives…until we are willing to get outside our comfort zone and put our very selves on the line for what we believe in…nothing will change.