We have an unconfirmed citizen report from inside the fatuous bubble that is Sten Hoyer (Bush Dog Pack Leader – MD):
I attended a fundraising luncheon on Sept. 13, hosted by Representative Keith Ellison featuring Majority Leader Steny Hoyer. Hoyer talked about the importance of fundraising to build a larger Democratic majority in 2008. I managed to squeeze my way in between the dozen or so lobbyists and ask “(D)o the Democrats plan to continue introducing appropriations bills to fund the war and if so, how do you expect to build a larger majority given the clear sentiment the public expressed against the war in the 2006 election?”
He replied that the Dems DO intend to continue introducing appropriations bills because “we aren’t going to strand the troops in the field,” then complained about not having the votes in the Senate, and other such blather. (It’s always someone else’s problem, isn’t it?) He went on to note – in an extremely condescending tone – that “we did pass a Defense budget that didn’t contain war funding and the President vetoed that – I don’t know if you were aware of that.” [snip]
Hoyer never really did answer how he planned to expand Democratic numbers while funding the war, but did comment that “I know the base is mad at us – and I’m mad at the base.” When he tossed that off, I inquired “Because…..?” He basically said the base has unrealistic expectations in terms of ending the war, and the Dems can’t de-fund it because doing so would anger the moderates they need to win more seats in ’08. (I must be delusional in thinking that the 70% of the public opposed to the war includes some independents – that’s obviously not the thinking in Hoyer-land).
As he was on his way out the door he stopped again & rattled off something about how poor Nancy Pelosi has “Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink camped out in her driveway,” and Cindy Sheehan is actually challenging ‘Nancy’ in a primary. (This apparently offends his beltway sensibilities). The obvious implication was that I must be some sort of leftwing loon to be pestering him about the war.
Don’t you love those right wing talking points, and that bit at the end, almost as an afterthought, where he tried to come off as if he’s supportive of Pelosi, when instead he and his fellow Bush lawn jockey Rahm Emanuel have been riddling her back with stiletto marks for months? Psst, Steny: Sheehan is not running a primary: she’s running as an independent. Nice of you to care!
And oooh, those precious Bush Dog “moderates” of his, whose moderation expresses itself in the extreme fringe belief that Bush must be feared and the occupation in Iraq left unmolested. This is the same mindset that told us all week that MoveOn’s ad was Very Bad for Democrats, tut tut, clutch pearls, swoon to the sofa, grab smelling salts, etc.
So much lovely DC convention wisdom, always so correct. Except, well, oops: the data is now rolling in on that epic MoveOn fiasco:
A new CBS poll, comparing the views of Americans Before Petraeus (B.P.) and After Petraeus (A.P.), demonstrates that all of that was completely wrong:
Most Americans continue to want troops to start coming home from Iraq, and most say the plan President Bush announced last week for troop reductions doesn’t go far enough, according to a CBS News poll released Monday. . . .
Sixty-eight percent of Americans say that U.S. troop levels in Iraq should either be reduced or that all troops should be removed – similar numbers to those before Mr. Bush’s speech.
In fact, it is even worse than that, since the percentage of Americans who believe we should either maintain or increase our current troops levels in Iraq was higher B.P. (30%) than it is A.P. (27%). Conversely, the percentage of Americans who want a troop reduction or complete withdrawal increased after the Petraeus Week (from 65% to 68%).
More revealingly still, only a small minority of Americans — the depressingly familiar Bush dead-enders — actually believe Gen. Petraeus’ claims that “the surge has made things in Iraq better.” A substantial majority of Americans disbelieves the assertions of The General Who Must Not be Challenged. . .
[snip]
Rudy Giuliani, Sean Hannity and much of the chattering class insisted all week that it was “despicable” for Senators such as Hillary Clinton to suggest that The General’s claims of Progress were not believable. Yet most Americans are similarly “despicable,” as they appear to share that sentiment. A despicable 62% do not believe Gen. Petraeus’ sunny claims about Progress.
The brilliance of the MoveOn ad is that it said what everyone outside of DC was thinking but not always saying out loud, busting through another taboo people like Hoyer dare not think (i. e., the truth), while all the DC Elites fretted and froofed like finicky old harridans in a Georgetown knitting club. The country gets it, but our governing elites and their lackey consultants emphatically do not.
And as a bonus, the whole GOP rallied around Bush to bash MoveOn and. . . endorse endless war in Iraq, voluntarily wrapping Bush around their own necks. Oops! How’s that gonna play in the hinterlands next November, Steny?
As Jane and Chris Bowers say, we in the base do all the work, and the elites try to take all the credit. As Casey Stengel said of the 1962 Mets, “Can’t anyone here play this game?”
If you’ve had enough of this crap, and if you haven’t already done it, please sign our petition at StoptheDCEstablishment.com.
UPDATE: Digby has more.



183 Comments





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ZEDUNOFITZEROO !!!!
Dear leftwing loon
Great post. I detest Hoyer – a pretender to the throne.
Delusional. Steny Hoyer is utterly delusional. I hope it bites him in the ass.
4?
Signed. Thank you Pach. Thank you so much.
Hey gang. How’s everybody?
Steny’s mad at the base because they are expecting the Dem leaders to keep fighting to deliver on the promise of 2006.
Too bad. So sad. We won’t take a pat on the head and go away when we’re inconvenient.
AND RIGHT!
Heya Pach,
Good to see ya again. And you’re right, the DC Elites are dense as they can possibly get. Hoyer needs his leash yanked, and taken away from his place by the throne. What a twit.
Vietnam on steroids comes home in this latest round. Now we have take on both Republicans and Democrats.
Nice job Pach! On the post and on questioning Hoyer. Good questions. Lousy answers. I signed the petition.
EvilDrPuma @ 3
maybe Rahm will
yech
need eye bleach
Pachacutec @ 6
Pissed off. Consider the petition signed.
If “the Dems can’t de-fund it because doing so would anger the moderates they need to win more seats in ’08″ then why can’t the Dems insist that the occupation be paid for without sticking future generations with massive national debt. Force the rich and corporations to pay for it with massive tax increases. Force Bush to veto them. Then force Bush to choose, he can have his occupation, but only if its paid for by those who benefit.
Imagine the gaul of an elected representative to say that he’s mad at his constituents (for wanting their family members to come home alive instead of in a box).
Steny is in great need of a viable primary challenger.
jim oconnor @ 13
Interesting idea, but apparently the Dems don’t care what you think. You’re only a constituent, after all.
F*ck “independent”. Get Cindy Sheehan to start a 3rd party. The climate seems actually right this time around … the beltway elite will start sh*tting their pants.
BTW, couldn’t get a commitment out of either Webb’s or Warner’s staff about the habeas amendment, but I registered my opinion.
Amazing that you even got to question the guy. These people should all have folks camping on their lawns.
Yawn. I still don’t understand the logic. Why do Steny and friends have to keep handing out blank checks? Keep sending Bush funding bills with timetables in them. If Bush wants to veto them, just keep sending them. Make sure that there’s always one on his desk, ready for a signature. Hold a press conference every day, urging Bush to support the toops and send them the money and supplies they need to fight the war. This is all pretty straightforward politics. The fact that Bush vetoed ONE BILL does not mean that the Democrats have to roll over and give him everything he wants.
Speaking of the moveon.org ad, it’s been out for over a week now. Has anyone in the MSM pointed out that “General Betray Us” was a nickname that came from Patraeus’ own troops?
These polls are completely out of step with Americans.
We’re more than fed up with this Iraq adventure, and simply want out troops home, and our money spent on real needs not more war. It’s that simple.
We have spent more than enough to defend our shores, but not for the right things as usual because of congressional incompetence and corporate malfeasance.
Term limits is the cure for getting rid of these dinosaurs along with public financing and banning corporate lobbyists PERIOD. Only not for profit public interest lobbying permitted.
Money ruined this country.
Evil Dr. Puma@ 15: Tell me about it.
Can we please have a progressive ind pendant party and get rid of these dems and repukes?
signed last time, but totally support this effort, pach. Nice to see you.
Redshift,
You don’t hafta, but there’s some chicks talking to you downstairs…
great post pach. some questions thought… are hoyer and emanuel really more powerful than pelosi? is she really just a figure head?
Frank Probst @ 19
over and over and over and over
Britney’s going to lose her kids. Between that and OJ, I doubt we’re going to hear any real news for the rest of the month.
GREAT post pach……
Hey Steny STFU and retire already, believe we have had enough of you and your pack of Bush Dogs!
SanderO @ 20
Right on! We want single payer health care like every other first world nation has. We don’t want to pay $1000 per month and more for health insurance (or face bankruptcy if catastrophic illness occurs).
I’m so mad I could spitballs. – Zell Miller
demi @ 24
lol, thanks!
“…finicky old harridans” hah, great image.
Given the news from Howie Klein the other day, I’m guessing that Steny isn’t too happy with some of the freshmen dems running around the House, like Christopher Murphy (D-CT), Hank Johnson (D-GA), Betty Sutton (D-OH), Ed Perlmutter (D-CO), Phil Hare (D-IL), Keith Ellison (D-MN), Mike Arcuri (D-NY), Stephen Cohen (D-TN), and Yvette Clarke (D-NY).
It seems they sent a nasty letter to Bush that started “We are writing to inform you that we will not support appropriating additional funds for U.S. military operations in Iraq unless a firm date is given to begin safe redeployment of our troops from Iraq.”
Less of Spineless Steny, please, and more Freshmen with stiff backbones and ears that work.
Not all the Dems are a problem folks, but we do have a wedge block of well placed obstructionists and sabateurs.
We’re closer to a progressive majority than we were last year at this time, but not there yet. Keep pushing, and please don’t quit.
Support our Blue America prescription, if you like.
Well said, Pachacutec.
What’s Steny Hoyer really afraid of, I wonder? It’s quite obvious that he doesn’t actually believe, despite what he claims, that there is some portion of our (bankrupt) nation’s voters that needs to be pandered to with our ongoing imperial occupation of Iraq.
Those “lobbyists” our citizen reporter had to push her way through are where the truth actually lies, I think we can agree. Steny Hoyer’s funding pals are the ones he feels that overwhelming need to pander to and serve – and Mr. Hoyer (who didn’t hold one single public meeting in his own district in August) has long since rationalized away any pangs of conscience that his pursuit of the almighty dollar, and the personal power and privilege for its own sake that its successful pursuit enables, may once have generated in him.
I hope Keith Ellison is learning how not to conduct the people’s business from this particular decades-long incumbent of a “role model” despite, and because of, Hoyer’s fundraising prowess, not to mention Hoyer’s A*P*C-sponsored guided tours of the Israeli government’s centers of power, in which Rep. Ellison was one of the willing, wide-eyed tourists this August.
Steny “The Bagman” Hoyer is a lipstick-wearing piggy who’s only claim to fame is how many lobbyists he’s welcomed to the trough.
Another winning loser… I guess the only real hope is to come out on the other side knowing rich jerks don’t care. To the rich – boo hoo, sorry if my post offends you because you are one of the 3 cool rich people on the planet.
Just about one straw away from telling the Dems and Repukes to take a flying leap off a cliff… oh no wait we are already doing that.
Bah.
Murtha said, as soon as the primaries are over you’re going to see the Republicans jump ship.
How incredibly despicable of the Republicans to sacrifice – Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb., 100 per month, troops’ lives…in order to save their sorry a**es. How dare the Republican voters stand in front of the Whitehouse and say that anti-war citizens are traitors and should leave the country. These people are as enlightened as a one-celled form of life. No, the one-celled forms of life don’t start and support wars based upon lies. The Republicans are lower than that.
Hoyer sounds like an elitist, patronizing, condescending, snob, moron – and just plain oblivious.
home from work early, just in time to sign petition, with comment “Out of Iraq now. Cut the funding. Our schools and infrastructure are expected to work more efficiently with massive funding cuts. Halliburton & other war profiteers need to have mega-massive funding cuts to improve their efficiency.
More, BUT BETTER, Dems in 2008
pow wow @ 34
Keith signed that letter to Bush I noted @ 32. That puts a fair amount of distance between him and Steny on at least one point.
Memo to Steny Hoyer:
Excellent Post! Condescending, in a word, that sums up Hoyer, Rahm and their gang, doesn’t it? I am simply soooo tired of this bunch…
Krongard story hits CNN!!
“…voluntarily wrapping Bush around their own necks…”
Priceless! You have a way with words.
Wow, the MSM has certainly picked up the Taser episode…!!!
OT: OpenCongress has a new widget.
CTuttle @ 45
The student will be interviewed on CNN at 8ET.
The Iran story is hitting CNN. 2,000 targets…
pow wow @ 34 –
that makes sense. the big money doesn’t come from the same place as the votes… so hoyer et al are running around trying to find even a few votes that won’t conflict with the desires of his $$$ backers instead of reaching out to where the largest source of votes are.
LS @ 47
Shuster is covering it right now on HardBall!!! 8-)
Seems to be a Military pushback…CNN now quoting Abuzaid. Good.
Don’t ask the Democrats to do the politically impossible. Just ask that the next time they fund the war, they slip in a war tax to pay for the war.
How could Bush complain, unless he wants it known that he thinks his daughter’s generation should pay for his war. Let the Democrats shine for supporting the troops in a fiscal responsible way.
And once we confront the bill for the war, it will probably hasten the end of this war.
Hey, guys!
CNN just did a bit wrt to business involving Mr. Henry’s latest letter.
Yah!
Steny Betrayus
Rahm Betrayus
Pelosi Betrayus
Lieberman Betrayus
and so on….
Inhofe on the floor whining about MoveOn ad.
blah, blah, blah.
When reached for comment, Giuliani, Hannity, and the bulk of the chattering class had the same response: “Inconceivable!”
Pssst — guys, I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
So funny they bash MoveOn, the organization conceived out of the majority desire to drop impeachment, another unpopular DC Elites obsession.
EW has summarized the list of supoenaed congressmen with analysis.
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/
Quite OT: This is what Bill O is saying about Jane:
Tonight, 9/17/07, Bill O’Reilly demonized Jane Hamsher,Firedoglake, for supposedly attacking Elizabeth Edwards directly for critiizing the Moveon Ad. Unfortunately, although this attack from Hamsher never happened, O’Reilly still managed to get the damaging message out there with the support of Kirsten Powers and Tammy Bruce. Then he went for broke declaring. ” I think these are fascist people. I think they’re Nazis.”
I haven’t heard much of the Blackwater story on MSM – though I realize it is hard to get anything past the OJ/Britney coverage.
zennurse @ 55
Also, making an idiot of himself repeating the fiction that they got a discounted rate. Some staffer didn’t do their homework. This is pathetic, proof that bloggers know more than a sitting senator.
Inhofe of OK is up on the Senate floor now talking about the MoveOn ad… He appeared to indicate that the “junior Senator from Texas” (Cornyn I assume) will be bringing a resolution to the floor (presumably later today or soon), about which resolution Inhofe is speaking. It sounds like some sort of Sense of the Senate resolution to condemn the MoveOn ad as “inappropriate” or some such…
So, Senate Democrats – who’s got the counter offensive lined up, now that you know that this political party-serving, anti-free speech resolution is on its way…? Anyone?
Wow. Tweety getting all over authoritarian rule and assault on free speech. Medea Benjamin and Joe Conason on…smacking down the police state!!
Steny’s been in Congress too long.
Kathy/Fozzetti @ 59
We know about this. We’ll. . . respond. Jane’s traveling back home from CA today, so stay tuned.
Kathy/Fozzetti @ 59
Is there video that sleazy bastard attacking Jane up anywhere yet?
Soon.
pow wow @ 62
How bizarre. Political speech is protected from Congressional oversight. It’s in the Constitution somewhere ;-)
Tweety: Are Bush supporters at his speeches Stepford people? What’s wrong with them?
OMG….he just said the Bush regime is acting, a little fascist, and asked if it is seeping back over here!!!
Pachacutec @ 67
[tapping foot….]
No, not that way!
Hey, Folks,
Everyone feel better.
Dana Perion just smacked down the mean old Helen Thomas.
“Our liberties ARE intact.”
Pachacutec @ 65
Minor quibble, Pach, the firepups were denied the thrill of squashing trolls yesterday! We were locked, cocked, and ready to rock, and then ya’ll denied us the satisfaction… 8-( (I do love the Mods!)
OT
Former Strib reporter, now blogger, Eric Black reports on Bush crony-attorney:
The federal Office of Special Counsel is investigating allegations that Rachel Paulose, U.S. attorney for Minnesota, mishandled classified information, decided to fire the subordinate who called it to her attention, retaliated against others in the office who crossed her, and made racist remarks about one employee.
Reportedly, Paulose loves quoting Bible verses. Well, here’s a quote for you, Rach-babee:
chicken…meet roost.
zennurse @ 61
I don’t think it’s a staff failure; I think it’s more likely that it’s BS, that is, he doesn’t care whether it’s true or not. The wingnut base believes it, and that’s all that matters to the wingnuttiest senator of them all.
Inhofe spewing grape AND orange Kool Aid about how the surge is working and how many times he’s been there (Camp Cupcake, I bet) and seen this for himself, thanks to Saint Petraeus and his acolyte Crocker the Great. It is incredible that there is anyone left who believes this shit, I don’t know how the good guys in Congress can stand to be in the same room with people like this and say that stuff about “the honorable Senator from Oklahoma”.
TeddySanFran @ 70
Cut it out.
Hmm, maybe we should all email Ms. Perino, and tell her we don’t agree?
I’m sensing a convergence of dirt descending on the Administration from all angles. It is as if everything has reversed upon them.
Heh!
LS @ 63
Horrors! Tweety had TWO people AGAINST authoritarianism. This is *SO* unfair and unbalanced!
/s
Occasionally the twit does redeem himself……..just not often enough.
Prairie Sunshine @ 73
Is that from Genesis, the verse where God has to take a day off, to decide what comes first – the chicken or the roost?
Matthews is confounding.
Inhofe is a sheer moron.
-GSD
Prairie Sunshine, I’ve got a better one:
“Pride goeth before a fall, and a haughty spirit before destruction…” Proverbs
(Hmm, I think I may have sent Themis on a round of housekeeping. How else to explain Paulose and that pervert in Florida?)
Whoops. Looks like Richard Cohen may be able to blame all of his recent crappy columns on the stress of a sexual harassment investigation. More at atrios.
demi @ 71
The peroxide has damaged that little robot’s wiring.
GSD @ 81
How concise!
pow wow @ 62
Oh, please let this be so. :) Cornyn’s unfavorables aren’t high enough for me yet. I’d love him to hang Bloody Bush around his own neck a little tighter.
pow wow @ 62
While I was marching last weekend, I was struck by the difference in liberal and conservative responses to statements they find highly objectionable.
Left: I’m appalled they’re saying that.
Right: They shouldn’t be allowed to say that.
Very telling.
Redshift @ 74
mirror, mirror on the wall
who’s the rethugliest one of all?
From this day forward, I’m going to refrain from calling Chris Matthews “Tweety.” He just ran a great piece on the taser episode, and interviewed Medea Benjamin and Joe Conason afterwards. He conveyed appropriate outrage, and put it in the context of free speech restrictions in this country. It was a good segment.
Tithonia @ 89
Good luck with that, but tomorrow’s only a few hours away….
kdh22 @ 90
Yeah I know :)
Mr. Inhofe is an embarrassment for my state. This man shames me.
AP – President Bush, cheered on by Iraq war veterans and their families on the White House’s South Lawn, urged lawmakers Tuesday to back his plan to withdraw some troops from Iraq but keep at least 130,000 through next summer or longer.
Tithonia @ 91
There’s always the next segment in which he can redeem himself…!!! ;-)
Tithonia @ 89
Would you consider changing it to “Twitty”? ‘Cause as kdh22 sez,
“Tomorrow’s another day.”
Oklahoma kiddo @ 92
I feel your pain. Every time Junior John Cornyn opens his mouth I feel my gorge rise.
Let’s you and us trade up in Senators this year? Whaddaya say?
Let’s kick their asses all the way to South Dakota.
“State Sen. Ernie Chambers is suing God.
“It’s a lawsuit against a defendant who has perpetrated much harm and damage on the human race,” Chambers said on CNN.
Chambers says his frivolous lawsuit against the Lord was meant to protest a suit filed against a Nebraska judge who banned the words “rape” and “victim” from a woman’s rape trial.
Some Nebraska lawmakers are trying to pass legislation preventing frivolous lawsuits, but Chambers says anyone should be able to file a lawsuit against anyone else.
“The Constitution requires that the courthouse doors be open, so you cannot prohibit the filing of suits,” Chambers tells a local Fox affiliate. “Anyone can sue anyone they choose, even God.”
http://rawstory.com//news/2007….._0918.html
This is funny. If the case gets thrown out as frivolous, it is admitting that “God” doesn’t exist!!!!
Interesting!!
Waccamaw @ 95
lol! He sure is squirrelly, isn’t he?
OT….Tweety just had someone on from Code Pink and Joe Conason on discussing the taser incident…During the conversation the code-pink woman held up an anti-war shirt that she said she was wearing to A Hillary event and that she got thrown out for wearing it by ,as she put it..”Hillary’s goons”…She claims that Hillary has goons similar to Chimpys that throw people out for wearing any signs other than the ones she approves…That is it for me…I have ALWAYS thought that Hillary has ReTHUGlican tactic tendencies……That is it for me..even if she gets the nomination I WILL NOT vote for that triangulating heffa!
Ernie Chambers is a wily piece of work. I love him. Lots of Nebraskans hate him, an African American progressive out of minority portion of Omaha. He’s been in the NE legislature since time began.
Here’s a thought for ya, Steny. Why don’t you leave the Democratic Party, and start a new party, called The Moderate Party. Leave the dirty hippies behind. Take Lieberman with you. Good luck!
Listen, you fool. You work for us. We don’t work for you. If SEVENTY PERCENT of the electorate want something, that’s where the moderate middle is. If you are not in that SEVENTY PERCENT, you are in no way a “moderate.” Do what the hell we tell you, public employee, and shut the hell up. Or leave. Go be a lobbyist. Go.
CTuttle @ 45
Good!
boadicea @ 96 – I’m dying to trade Senator – I’m-the-first-with-a-confirmed-no-on-habeaus-Crapo and Wide-Stance Craig for Sheldon Whitehouse and Russ Feingold, but RI and Wisconsin recoiled in horror and adamantly refused!
Brisingamen @ 77
I misread Demi’s comment at 71 on Dana as:
Dana Peron
I think that fits better than Perino, don’t you? *g*
On Tweety:
It’s like the Claude Rains character in “Casablanca.”
“I blow with the wind. The prevailing wind is from Vichy.”
I think Tweety is setting himself up now to book guests in 2009.
Steny Hoyer
What kind of district does this odious, piece of human garbage come from?
Seriously. The Republicans in the district must be the most inept idiotic bunch of bunglers this side of Don Knotts and Tim Conway in the Apple Dumpling Gang.
He is so wrong on so many levels.
Has he … ever … ever … done any polling on why there are 40% of people who DO NOT vote?
Does he have any iota of the smallest thought in his head how HUGE of a victory the Democrats could have if they just once had a message and a policy that was one other than “we’re not them”
Gawd, what a F***head
Oklahoma kiddo @ 93
I tweaked your wording a little, there, OK.
Republicans who are targeting MoveOn will soon realize the following:
1. MoveOn’s position on Iraq is perfectly in sync with a strong majority of Americans.
2. Unlike many Democratic politicians, MoveOn is ready and willing to go into full-on street fight mode when attacked by Republicans.
Democrats who know how to counterpunch are the Republicans’ worst nightmare.
EvilDrPuma @ 102
My email inbox at the university is clooged with mass emails from university bureaucrats promising a full investigation. The police who tasered the guy are on administrative leave.
A*P*C/Isr*al wants us in Iraq. Pelosi, Rahm, Steny, work for them, not us. We’ll get out of Iraq when A*P*C says we can go, not before. Probably when Biden’s “three easy pieces” plan has become a de facto reality. Again, because it’s what they not us want.
Edited and released by Mods
cleter @ 108
That’s good news!
Senator Specter is starting a twenty-minute address in the Senate in support of the habeas corpus amendment of which he is a co-sponsor.
He noted that the cloture vote on this amendment will be held at 10:30 a.m. tomorrow morning.
To access C-Span 2 streaming on-line:
http://c-span.org/watch/cs_csp…..p;Code=CS2
cleter @ 108
Locally, we’re having a kabuki debate over arming campus police (bullets, not tasers). It’s very clear to me that the powers that be have their minds made up to do it, and probably had made them up before the proposal ever went public. I have some hope that this incident might at least hurt our pantomime administrators’ credibility.
Well all, we are fighting the battle of our forefathers, the battle of our lives, the fight to live in a democratic society, where the free exchange of ideas and culture are nurtured not denigrated.
I will say this again, we are all brothers and sisters connected to all and it is incumbent on us to include all in our world
Good on all of us for standing up, let’s lend a hand to all who have trouble standing.
Sen. Kerry tells us:
“In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way. I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of responding when he was taken into custody. I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted.”
Mad Dogs @ 104
Danavita
Oklahoma kiddo @ 114
could JK hear him screaming?
Well, leinie, as Junior John is the literally worst Senator in the United States Senate (Wyoming’s Barrasso only ranked lower because he had a very low number of votes to look at, IIRC) I think we’d still gain in the trade.
But I’d rather kick Craig, Cornyn, and Inhofe all to the curb together. Senators Larocco, Noriega, and Rice would certainly class up the joint as well as move us toward that lovely filibuster proof sweet spot.
We’ll boot Crapo on the next go round.
leinie @ 103
Can we widen the field a bit? Cause California gets a special on Reps being investigated for sleaze! To wit: Congratulations To Us!
(Gary Miller is the one Ron Shepton’s running against.)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 113
Good old Senator Kerry. You can always count on him to slump over and drool when the chips are down.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 115
oh, bullshit. The goddamned audience knew he was being tasered. It wasn’t a secret. And it’s not a huge auditorium.
Works for me, PB. I was thrilled to send a little cash Ron’s way when he was here for his Blue America chat.
We. Fight.
OT – for any firepups who missed today’s HJC hearing on FISA, i uploaded the audio files… you can access them here.
and just as a reminder, this week’s congressional hearings are listed here.
hah!! sen kerry HAD to hear that kid screaming..democracy waning even faster in this country…and steny hora is a tool of the dlc..
juslin @ 124
And Hillary is having GOONS throw out ladies from Code-Pink for wearing anti-war shirts
selise @ 122
Hey, Selise,
you rock.
thanks.
~ bong hits for habeas
cleter @ 121
He was screaming long before he got tasered. Help help help.
EvilDrPuma @ 102
Lots of student eyewitnesses stepping forward, saying thing that boil down to this:
#1 The guy went to Kerry’s speech late and people in the crowd outside could hear him muttering stuff like “I’m going to get thrown out, I’m going so I can get thrown out”.
#2 He barged in and grabbed the mic from another student and wouldn’t give it up
#3 Kerry tried to answer his questions but the guy wasn’t listening
#4 The cops tried to get him to move on so others could ask Kerry questions, and he refused
#5 They turned off his mike so he’d move on and let others talk, and he refused
#6 They finally wound up handcuffing him and then tasering him when he kept resisting
#7 The other students were so pissed off at him for being a disruptive inconsiderate jerk that they cheered when the cops finally got him under control
cleter @ 121
Here’s what the studnent are syaiung:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/18/10649/5334
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/18/10649/5334
Re: Tasering. This is a diary at Kos that is Kerry’s point-of-view from his online representative. If you scan through the comments, there is another video of the tasering from a different angle than others that I have seen. It is clear from that video, that the room is not large. It is clear from that video, that the police officer is smiling when he is going to taser the kid. It is clear that Kerry would have to have heard all of the screaming of the audience and the kid. So, I call BS on Kerry. What astounds me also are the many comments in the diary that seem to find tasering acceptable and even warranted. That is really bizarre. Anyway, here is the diary – go watch the video in the comments:
http://dailykos.com/story/2007/9/18/125041/427
kdh22 @ 90
What are you goingto call him? A journalist?
oilchanger@228…SO WHAT…he still should not have been tasered.
For other Greg Palast affecionados, read Palast’s Writing about the Tasered Student.
The student was holding “Armed Madhouse”.
raven @ 126
did or did not the rollings stones stop the concert at altamont, when the hell’s angels killed that guy?
i am NOT asking any questions at a Kerry rally.
Oil Changer @ 128
the audience cheered when the police first went after him.
they should be ashamed.
There are many very bad Senators and Reps. in all the states.
In the name of politics, we get a statement from this clown that brings out the wrath in the “base” to stop this war! I hope these democrats get the word that we aren’t going to support their approach of business as usual. I want leadership and an end to the war! I won’t be fundraising for anyone who continues to vote funding for this war!
yellowdog jim @ 135
They also hired the angels as security.
cleter @ 119
In the video, it didn’t look like he ‘barged’ into the front of the line… Also, as they were tasering him the video cuts out and you could see JK watching the ordeal from the stage…!!! 8-(
Oil Changer @ 128
I’m not sure all that is true, from what I’ve heard, but even so…
We taser people for being jerks now?
Poor John Kerry. He still doesn’t get it. And I voted for the man.
OT:
After yesterday’s sermon from Pastor Cheney on the sanctity of ‘America’s bestest Holy War evah’ and the eternal damnation of all those heathens who tremulously oppose it..I have but one question.
Who’s next?
CTuttle @ 140
Well tweeety agrees with ay’ll. “If having a big mouth will get you tasered I’m in trouble”.
cleter @ 141
exactly.
being a jerk is not illegal.
Even if he was disruptive and out of line, the taser is a barbaric instrument that can be fatal. We are so inured to excessive police force in this country it’s insane.
Oil Changer @ 128
I heard students who were there and interviewed on the news saying that it was horrifying and wrong. Tasering is not a solution, it is a frequently used tool that is too often abused by those in power.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 142
Its possible that Kerry could have diffused the situation himself. Kerry was a protester once. Some of the blame belongs to Kerry.
raven @ 139
I was at Altamont. The show went on. That was exciting. They were throwing 16 oz. cans of beer into the audience. My g’friend and I were glad to get outta there.
Lou Dobbs is opening with the State Dept. Inspector General hijinx.
Chimpy’s got a leaky damn.
Even General Petraeus’ finger didn’t plug the hole in the damn.
-GSD
He was already on the floor when he was tasered. It was a pretty clear violation of the police use of force rules, from what you can see on the video.
LOL Tucker Carlson on MSNBC just referred to John McCain as “John the Baptist.” I had not heard that one before.
PW has a new post up….
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..-run-away/
It’s Them and Us.
And the Them don’t include the 30-percenters.
They’re just ignorant, angry sheep, as much on the outside as anyone here.
You want an image of Them? Pick at random from the House or Senate.
Oh, yes, I know there are “good” senators like Feingold and good representatives like my Chris Murphy.
But if one asks, what do any of these people want most, the answer is to get re-elected.
And that puts everything in perspective.
Them and Us.
And the sooner Americans grasp this basic fact, the better.
yellowdog jim @ 135
Grateful Dead stopped the concert on the Festival Express tour in Canada, when the cops got rough, because people couldn’t get in…then they gave a free concert in the park for those who couldn’t get in. Problem solving…and they were probably stoned. Maybe that’s why they chose a peaceful solution.
Prairie Sunshine @ 116
Don’t Cry For Me,
ArgentinaJunya.boadicea @ 116
Love LaRocco – have sent him money, will send more. I like his working for Idaho thing – talking to real people.
Crapo needs to get booted. Aggravating twit.
Must confess, thought, that Jr. John is WAY SCARIER.
Still want Sheldon and Russ though.
raven @ 138
the angels could be more qualified than some campus rent-a-cops.
the stones deserve no reprieve.
i think they started playing again after the victim was taken off.
Keith could take Kerry.
the level is comparing the stones to kerry as leaders concerned for their audiences.
this is a low level.
altamont was a long time ago.
i go to the wikipedia to read now.
“Don’t taser me Bro” to a black cop. Is there an 11 on this thing?
leinie @ 157
This goes without saying.
Men with brains and ethics are HAWT!
hackworth @ 148
Some of the blame belongs to Kerry without a doubt. He was the other half of that question answer session. There is no doubt that he was talking to a student.
hey pach-wow, what a coincidence,
there was a show about microtrends on today, the second half of the diane rehm show and i thought of you…i actually did, driving in my car from one appt to the next…..from what i know of you, it’s right up your alley……..guest was michael penn…he just wrote a book about them………..was an excellent show. veeeerrrrry interesting and thought provoking, in a sociology kind of way……
http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/
i say, dear chap, a fine post, a very fine post.
We do hope to hear more of your friend’s adventures?
heh heh heh.
cheerio.
Does anyone know where the key is to shut Jeff Sessions the hell up?
Tom @ 64
I think Mr. Hoyer’s problem is that he woke up one morning and the whole world had changed. There were people on the internets..and they are talking to one another…and coordinating their efforts to speak their minds to senators and Congresspeople. The horror. The horror. I think Steny Hoyer wishes we’d all go back to sleep and let people like him play at being the people’s representatives…
kdh22 @ 164
Let me answer my own questions: Just do what BushCo says.
dmac @ 162
Mark Penn is a union busting pollster huckster who works for the Clintons and is promoting a book.
Ezra Klein has a look at Penn’s statistical hyperkinetic pap here.
But I appreciate the thought!
Well, lookee here:
A Member of Congress daring to challenge one of Hoyer’s pet lobbies, to predictable effect. Jim Moran deserves back-up and praise for his principled truth telling:
http://thehill.com/leading-the…..09-18.html
Steny Hoyer, if Jim Moran’s comments were “factually inaccurate” please provide the public with the factual inaccuracies you complain of. Otherwise, take your anti-Semitic slur, and shove it, because Israeli-sponsored and Israel-supporting foreign lobbies in this nation are just as capable of, and effective at, influencing and purchasing and thereby “controlling” portions of corporate media coverage and our multiple-lobby-funded Congress as is any other entity that engages in such purposeful, focused, and funded activity to do just that.
What is A*P*C, otherwise? A toothless debating club that is somehow able to get a majority of Members of Congress to attend its annual meeting, including the Vice President and the Speaker of the House, “just because”? My, what a high opinion some must have of this lobby’s inherent worth when they claim it exerts such leverage over our Congress simply by the power of its ideas – its money and its not-so-veiled threats to oppose any who oppose its overseas-focused agenda nothwithstanding…
The simple fact remains, as Jim Moran rightly says, that a large majority of American Jews (for examples, see Tikkun and Rabbi Lerner) stand in opposition to the agenda and tactics of the A*P*C Lobby – so somehow I doubt it’s simply the power of its ideas that holds such sway…
pach at 167 says-”Mark Penn is a union busting pollster huckster who works for the Clintons and is promoting a book.
Ezra Klein has a look at Penn’s statistical hyperkinetic pap here.
But I appreciate the thought!”
well, all i know is, it provoked a lot of thought in me, the rare universal kind, so i wish you would listen to the show…………cuz i don’t much care about him so much, in fact i almost turned it off when i heard who it was, but what was said today was thought provoking and worth listening to………i learned a lot from it………that’s why i passed it on to you……..
and pach-
i learn from my enemies………and my friends.
A very small point, but there are a LOT of young progressive knitters out here, try not to lump us in with Georgetown harridans, please!
I was in the national young democrats in the late 60’s with Steny Hoyer. He has not changed one bit. He only cares about the exercise of power and has no interest in policy. He opposed a resolution to end the war in Vietnam. Chickenhawk then and chickenhawk now.
the show was worth listening to, not because of mark penn, but because of the subject matter that came up………was worth the hour.
Just came by, a really excellent post. If it hasn’t been mentioned before, I wish there had been time to ask Hoyer why the Republicans with the same numbers he has now could wipe the floor with the Democrats and why he has been able to accomplish nothing by comparison. Answer in case you were wondering: the Republicans fight for their base and the Democrats don’t.
Wendy @ 171
Wendy! Thanks for saying that. I’m glad knitting is coming back in fashion. I used to be a young progressive knitter. Now I am a not-quite-as-young progressive knitter. Obviously Pach has a gap in his knitting awareness. ;)
the knitting comments===was mentioned on the diane rehm show i referred to………..backlash………..
MoveOn’s tidal wave has swept the rocks from under the GOP leaving them grasping at straws.
The public did not buy the snake oil they were peddling and once again MoveOn has been vindicated.
And there’s the latest Pew poll about Iraq. 61% of Democratic voters think Congressional Dems aren’t going far enough to end the war; only FIVE percent think they’re going too far.
OK, that’s Dems. The corresponding numbers among Independents (the ones Steny’s so worried about us losing if we rein Bush in) are 48% think Cong. Dems are not going far enough, and 18% think they’re going too far.
The numbers among Dems are the same as June – and even more independents think Cong. Dems aren’t going far enough now than they did in June.
The only people being fooled by the Bush/Betrayus PR push are Republicans and D.C. elites.
Hey Steny, have you figured out which one you are yet? Does it make a difference?
Kerry is a Major Weasel. And I didn’t simply vote for him … I worked for the Kerry Campaign in 2004 … and I contributed to his “Election Irregularities Defense Fund.” You know, the one John Kerry gave up on? When he decided to ignore ALL evidence and ALL legal documentation of vote fraud in 2004. As a lifelong progressive Democrat, I have no qualms about calling Kerry a wimp-ass wuss. DITTO my senator Hillary Red-Wing-Bait Clinton.
Kerry is Steny Hoyer with a longer history. Hillary is just a tap-dancing fool.
Am I the only person who remembers what Greg Palast said in Armed Madhouse about the Al Gore/Ross Perot debate?
Palast said that Perot got 19 million votes from working people who were frantic about losing our jobs and scared to death of NAFTA. He said that Gore had a once-in-a-generation opportunity that night to build an FDR-size majority that would have lasted for generations. A majority so big that Karl Rove’s biggest bag of tricks wouldn’t have been enough to swing elections. All Gore had to do was invite those working class Perot voters into the Democratic Party.
Palast said that instead, Gore went beyond just winning the debate and treated Perot with contempt and condescension. He said that when Gore did that, all of the people who voted for Perot knew that Gore was sneering at them.
He said that Clinton seemed genuinely stunned when the 1994 elections went against the Democrats with such vengance, but that all of it could be traced back to Gore’s behavior toward Perot in that debate.
For me, that explains why the press and the Republicans have made such a habit of mocking Gore. They were playing to those almost 20 million working stiffs Gore alienated in the debate with Perot.
Palast also quipped that the event is also a ready answer if Gore ever presumes to say no one lost their job because of NAFTA. The response would be to tell Gore, “Hey, YOU did.”
It was neither good nor bad for the Democratic Party. It was mainly obtuse.
The suggestion that MoveOn.org had any measureably positive effect on antiwar sentiment is without basis. Messrs. Crocker and Petraeus deserve all the credit for the latest Pew results, I feel certain. I can imagine the sea change in antiwar sentiment had MoveOn.org actually become involved in some sort of positive action. The mere absence of the drag factor of what they ended up doing would’ve assured that outcome.
I give a lot of credit to the American people, who watched before as a General bedecked with medals used shiny charts to verify slam-dunk “facts”.
It’s not so much that the average American is deeply engaged or extremely sage, it’s more of a “been there, done that” weariness.
Not to mention the bullshit meters pegging out.
Still, the pushback from the left is so very important–we get none from the chattering classes and the Steny’s of our party.
Glenzilla has been hitting this theme for a long time now, the immense gulf between the corporate media and their cocktail weenie circuit buddies whom we elect, and the American people.
They just don’t get it.
Great piece, Pach.
I saw it over at Huffpost as well.
K