Well, the results are in. The non-partisan Pew Research Center for the People and the Press has released its polling data on American opinion of the Iraq War in the wake of the administration’s multi-million-dollar PR push last week. And what did the Bushies get for their (our) money?
Why, absolutely fucking nothing.
Last week’s congressional testimony by General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker, followed by President Bush’s address to the nation, has not changed bottom-line public attitudes toward the war in Iraq.
(…)
The mostly stable opinions about the war and U.S. policies toward Iraq are consistent with this assessment. In the current survey, a 47% plurality says the United States will probably or definitely fail to achieve its goals in Iraq, which is largely unchanged from July (49%). Most important, opinions about whether to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq have not changed at all over the past two months: 54% believe U.S. forces should be brought home as soon as possible while 39% say U.S. troops should remain in Iraq until the situation is stable.
In other words, public opinion has flatlined on the war. The people who are stupid enough to believe whatever the president tells them will continue to do exactly that. The people who know better aren’t going to be bought off by a bunch of bells and whistles from another Bush appointee, especially not this late in the execution of a policy that has categorically failed on all fronts.
To be fair, there were some very modest gains among Republicans, about 16% said that the Betray Us Report improved their opinion of the War. As I said last week regarding the Petraeus and Pony Show, it fooled the people who wanted to be fooled. And nobody else.
Included in the category of those easily gulled dead-enders who saw the Petraeus Report as a positive, of course, are the ever-credulous Beltway Bobblehead Gang, who apparently spend their lives like baby birds in a nest; heads back, beaks wide open, anxiously awaiting the next juicy morsel of propaganda that the Right doles out to them. Propaganda that they swallow whole, uncritically gorging, then turn around and regurgitate into the laps of an increasingly skeptical public.
Here is a review of what we learned last week from the right-wing noise machine and their enabling media puppets: Americans trust Gen. Petraeus and do not want his credibility questioned. The week was a big win for President Bush and his Iraq policy. The MoveOn newspaper ad, like 9/11, was Going to Change Everything — it was a devastating event for Democrats, a transformative moment that would embolden Republicans and revitalize support for the war.
A new CBS poll, comparing the views of Americans Before Petraues (B.P.) and After Petraeus (A.P.), demonstrates that all of that was completely wrong:
Another poll? And what, pray tell, did it find?
The same thing as the Pew Poll:
(CBS) Most Americans continue to want troops to start coming home from Iraq, and most say the plan President Bush announced last week for troop reductions doesn’t go far enough, according to a CBS News poll released Monday.
(…)
Sixty-eight percent of Americans say that U.S. troop levels in Iraq should either be reduced or that all troops should be removed – similar numbers to those before Mr. Bush’s speech.
Nearly half want Mr. Bush to remove even more troops by next summer than he proposed in his address. Forty-seven percent say the plan to bring troop numbers down to pre-surge levels next year should go even further.
The poll also found that despite optimistic assessments of the U.S. troop surge by Mr. Bush and Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, Americans are unconvinced that the surge is working.
Only about one in three (31 percent) said the surge has made things in Iraq better, while more than half (51 percent) say it’s had no impact. Eleven percent say it’s made things worse.
Overall, Americans remain pessimistic about the war. Just 34 percent think things are going well for the U.S. in Iraq, while 63 percent say things are going badly – about the same as before the president’s speech.
But what say the Talking Dogs of the Beltway Elite?
Most absurdly of all, Dean Broder — just weeks after the President announced he would escalate the war in Iraq despite overwhelming public opposition — wrote in the same column: “With the public eager for some bipartisan progress on all these fronts, Bush is signaling that he, at least, is ready to try.” The press corps has the Dean they deserve. The reason they are endlessly wrong is because their whole narrative is an insular Beltway narrative that could not have anything less to do with the country as a whole.
In their world, the Republicans are always ascendant, Bush is always the Strong Leader, Democrats are always the sorry losers captive to their destructive Leftist extremists, and Americans are aching to support the War. They have been predicting endlessly that, any day now, all of this will be true again.
They actually thought that a newspaper ad was going to transform deeply entrenched views about the Republicans and the War because their friends Ed Gillispie and Tony Snow and Sean Hannity told them it would. The Rise of Petraeus the Good and the unmasking of the Evil MoveOn Left was going to change everything, back to its rightful place. It changed nothing, including the media itself, which will seize on some other event a few weeks from now to declare yet again the latest surging comeback for the President, the war and the right-wing faction which has followed him.
But hey, in Conservative Woof-Woof Land, somehow we’re the “fascists” for criticizing Democrats (and their spouses) who continue mouth Right Wing talking points that demonize the majority of Americans and undermine the anti-war effort. Fucking get it right, people.
At this point I’m starting to believe that the Democrats deserve to get their noses bloodied and lips split by partisan brawlers from the other side of the aisle. As long as they keep getting led around by the Right-Wing Noise Machine, uncritically parroting the kind of things that Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh get paid big bucks to say (and doing it for free), well, who the hell needs ‘em?
DC Democrats, you can abandon the Netroots if you want, but bear in mind that you’ll be bidding farewell to the fund-raising power we have. Never mind that we’re right and that ending the war in as swift and decisive a manner as possible is The Right Thing to Do. Let me speak in a language that you people understand:
Throw the Netroots under the bus, and you’ll lose access to oceans and oceans of sweet, green money. You may as well kiss it goodbye. We don’t have any problem re-routing those contributions to primary challengers. And given the attitude of the public right now, it won’t take much persuading to convince them to throw you all out like yesterday’s trash.
Am I making myself clear?
Good.



489 Comments





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What?
It’s the new math!
TRex !!
Who?
TRex!!!
where?
So Americans are smarter than we give them credit for? Or they’re simply not paying attention?
Why?
Hey TRex. How’s your evening?
TRex, I’m disappointed ya aren’t flossing yer teeth with OralB, ya gotta keep the chompers clean…!!! *g*
Hey, TRex.
TRex- you forgot to add ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!
One of your best statements ever, as to how this should be done. Will find link.
neurophius @ 8
Now that is the question!
How?
We are TRex, hear us roar! Excellent post, big guy.
Huh???
17? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
.
Here you go, CT…
Austin’s own Silver Thistle Pipes & Drums.
TexBetsy @ 18
im in yer comment laffing at u
TeddySanFran @ 20
i tried to delete it!
Evening, gang. Feeling a little discouraged tonight, but I’ll be okay. Sure wish Jane had gotten a chance to view and respond to that O’Reilly clip today, but she has apparently spent the whole day in airports.
Oh, well, we’ll hit him tomorrow.
Hard.
That Glenn guy is pretty smart. He’s gonna go far. :P
Like crystal, darling. *smooch*
What’s with all these questions? Someone accidentally put koolaid in the lake’s watercooler?
I am in a deep, deep funk tonight. Can someone please say something that will cheer me up?
TexBetsy @ 7
I wish I lived where this might be true. Tonight, on my way to work, I passed three separate cars with their noise pollution spewing about the left wing, MoveOn hate machine that is turning support for the troops into a political chess game. The left is playing politics with our children’s lives over in Iraq! If I hadn’t just gotten over the stomach flu, I would have hurled.
Instead, I came to work angry, again.
TexBetsy @ 18
Yes…now i think downstairs is thataway ;-)
Suzanne @ 24
Of course not! The repubs don’t question.
John Bolton fanning the war flames
Wants to attack Iran
http://rawstory.com//news/2007….._0918.html
What sorts of snacks do y’all expect if you keep making fun of me?
Suzanne @ 24
Just felt…right *g*
I swear to GOD I am going to take a vacation when this administration is over.
Nowhere in particular..just a month-long break from news.
If my head doesn’t implode before then.
Suzanne @ 15
Dang, no dive again…!!! 8-(
WTF??? Now Petreaus goes to London and, guess what? He doesn’t wan’t to attack Iran. Well, why the hell didn’t he just say so while he was over here…over there…over here…WTF:
http://abc.net.au/news/stories…..ion=justin
{{{{{{{{burnspbesq}}}}}}}}
burnspbesq @ 25
Yes. On a totally personal level, but sort of on topic here, my best friend’s son is back from Iraq tonight.
TRex @ 22
Oh, I have no doubt.
Good grief, people, I stop to answer an email and you people go and throw up twenty-odd comments already?!?! Take a pill!
TRex @ 22
It will be sweeter for the delay; O’s flying monkeys were surely expecting the lash today. They may be unprepared for what tomorrow brings.
Kathleen @ 29
Isn’t he irrelevant yet?
TexBetsy @ 30
Ummm…cream pie in the face??
LoudounLib @ 36
:) :) :)
LoudounLib @ 36
THAT’LL WORK.
There’s one you didn’t get, you bastards!
Twain, multiply those smiles about 600 more times and I’m sure that’s what we’d be seeing on her face right about now :-)
Good point, TRex. It would be cool to know our monetary strength.
burnspbesq @ 25
“The people are coming.” Rep. Maxine Waters, on the Randi Rhodes show.
We know what’s going on, the vast majority of Americans know what’s going on. It’s only the Beltway Kidz who are clueless. By the time they figure it out, it will be too late. For them. We will have already taken the country back.
LoudounLib @ 43
I’m always so happy to hear about even just one coming home.
LoudounLib @ 36
Best news of the day.
Back on topic, TRex, didn’t Skippy already say no more $$$ to the Dems. Am remembering something about that over at his place.
I’ve been very, very busy, so I have not had time to catch up on all my reading, but I did want to say thanks TRex for the Late, Late takedown last night of Hillary’s plan to take care of all of our health insurance companies. I just had a lovely run-in with mine this afternoon.
burnspbesq @ 25
Um, how about the fact that you’re one of my favorite readers and I look forward to seeing you here each night?
Good evening everyone! I have been running around like a loon all day, and just got finished reading all of today’s posts. May I say, top to bottom, nothing but awesome, well-written, well thought out posts! The front pagers kicked ass today.
LoudounLib @ 36
Yay! I hope he gets to stay home.
Cassie comes near the lake in a midnight blue bathing suit and dark blue warm-ups so she can sneak around unseen. She sends lots of comments with the names of medicines to distract Suzanne, then leaves the warm-ups in a messy pile and climbs up to the diving board.
Run, run, run, jump
Up Up backward summersault.
Half twist.
Perfect dive entry into the lake. No splash.
Perhaps if I fill the delicious new old pen that I received in today’s mail and write “Cheney is a putz” 100 times, that will improve my mood somewhat.
But I’m afraid that the only thing that will truly improve my mode is some better fucking relief pitching.
TexBetsy @ 30
Hiya TexB. I am always up for snacks, and I won’t make fun of you :0)
madmommy @ 55
You can stay.
SnarKassandra @ 53
o/
SnarKassandra @ 53
Well, somebody’s feeling sassy tonight.
burnspbesq @ 54
: whistling : not saying a word…!
My google skills are failing.
I can’t seem to find a link to the original FDL piece by TRex, that included the famous words ATTACK!!!! ATTACK!!! AAAATTACK!!
Someone, anyone? Pleeeze?
Hey gang,
I didn’t make any money today, but I called all 19 senators on Christy’s list this morning.
And, I’m not in a funk.
SnarKassandra @ 53
Distraction didn’t work, girl :) Nice dive
SnarKassandra @ 53
Well done!
LoudounLib @ 36
Oh so heart warming news – home again home again! And dear LoudownLib isn’t it great to ask and receive in one short beat – I love this place. ;~)
SO, if they got nothin’ for the PR blitz, can we get our money back? Can we return the fuckery for some kind of refund?
wangdangdoodle @ 19
Mahalo, WangDang, their Tartan is similar to my clan’s plaid design, add some green and darker blue…! Here’s a Nova Scotia assemblage…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
Dead on, TRex — the normally conservative Rasmussen poll confirms the same findings.
TRex @ 50
What a sweet thing to say. Thank you so much. You rock, dude.
Go get yer clothes up off the floor and fold them neatly in yer drawers Miss!
Glenn as usual, esta es en fuego!
Gen. Petraeus and credibility?
You have to remember. Anyone with a generals rank higher than 1 star (2 max) is a politician not a soldier.
I wouldn’t trust this joker to lead a platoon (30-40 or so troops) much less have the command he currently holds.
Cassie, I like the distraction tactic too ;-)
I’m surprised that Broder found time to write his column. I thought he was too busy still perfecting ways of making ceiling wax or knitting knickers for the boys at the front.
Scarecrow @ 67
Somehow, I thought there’d be more of a feeling of fulfillment to finally being popular.
TheOtherWA @ 63
Ditto! Homework is done, eh? *g*
I’m so glad I didn’t get tasered at school today. I hope I don’t get tasered tomorrow.
ROFL, Tex
Larry Craig was back at work on Capitol Hill today.
“DC Democrats, you can abandon the Netroots if you want, but bear in mind that you’ll be bidding farewell to the fund-raising power we have.”
Do you also mean our VOTES!
LoudounLib @ 59
Has the contract for the demolition of RFK been awarded yet? I’d like to bid. I will tear that dump down with my bare hands for $17 and a 12-pack of Diet Coke.
SnarKassandra @ 53
Hey Cassie! Those clothes aren’t going to take themselves to the hamper, you know ;0)
CTuttle @ 75
Everything due tomorrow is done, but still two history things to finish for Thursday. AND I got a ton of new projects.
Well, don’t all say Hi at the same time.
Should I threaten to put on a bathing suit?
cleter @ 76
I hope nobody gets tasered tomorrow. However, it seems that giving tasers to police officers just doesn’t have that effect.
Quoting David Broder gives me norovirus.
Valley Girl @ 60
It was called ‘Press the Eject and Give Me the Tape’ and it’s here.
TexBetsy @ 56
many thanks
hi demi, sorry, doing 17 things at once here as usual — nice to see you!
Suzanne @ 24
That was a question, Suzanne.
Actually, that was two questions.
TeddySanFran @ 78
Did I read somewhere today that the ACLU has joined Craig’s legal team?
burns, RFK will still stand for a while — DC United plays there.
Hey back, LL.
You, I’ll tell about my two calls to Larry Craig’s office.
TexBetsy @ 69
Uh oh, Cassie, ya forgot something…!!!
demi @ 61
I am impressed. You may not have made any money but you surely get my gratitude.
burnspbesq @ 90
Yes. According to the constitution, a congress person cannot be arrested while travelling to or from a congressional session. Which is what he was doing. I imagine that’s the focus with the ACLU.
SnarKassandra @ 53
I ain’t gonna touch that..with a ten-foot barge pole…I could..but I won’t….*g*
burnspbesq @ 80
HA
demi @ 83
Please? ;-)
burnspbesq @ 90
Jeralyn
demi @ 83
Hey demi!
Clothes are away neatly. I gave Suzanne her diving board back.
If anybody didn’t get badgered into reading my blog post yesterday, here it is. No time to do a new one today.
Who is in charge of decisions in Iraq?
demi @ 83
Hi, Demi. Sorry — didn’t see you come in.
Demi, don’t blame me for my not saying hi- i believe that honor goes to dolphin girl and her distraction. can you tell me about craig too please?
LS, what did I do?
Good evening, all! Feeling better, Cassie?
EvilDrPuma @ 84
Apparently, I’m at the kind of school where people can get tasered for being impudent to John Kerry. God knows what they’d do to me if they heard what I’ve said about Hillary. Or Guliani.
TRex, you should probably avoid the Florida-Georgia game, what with the new UF zero-tolerance policy on snark and rude questions now.
SnarKassandra @ 101
Evil idiots. This has been another edition of “Simple Answers to Simple Questions.”
I am 100% better from being sick and 100% loaded up on school work and projects.
SnarKassandra @ 101
badgered?
OK read the Jeralyn link. Interesting. Not sure that’s in Craig’s interest, but…
LoudounLib @ 91
That’s fine. I’ll “accidentally” drop the whole upper deck on Richie Williams head.
EvilDrPuma @ 107
I think she wants you to click.
TeddySanFran @ 109
Ack!
TeddySanFran @ 109
badgered?You are wicked, Teddy. I love the badgers.
burnspbesq @ 111
Just jump up and down in the bleachers like we used to do at the Skins games. That should loosen things up a bit!
TexBetsy @ 112
And I did…but I’m not changing my answer!
Would a new Attorney General be able to effect whether the A*P*C Rosen/Weisann espionage trial takes place or is derailed?
http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iow…..rstam.html
119!
OldCoastie @ 118
Oops!
darn! evening everyone!
TeddySanFran @ 99
I tell you what, my respect for them continues to grow… Any and all, that’s what the doctor ordered!!! (I’ll be back, an errand to run!)
peanutbutter @ 119
nice save
Pffffffffft. You would have to knock me out and drag my scaly green body to that fucking football game. And keep me thoroughly sedated while I was there.
I hate college sports.
Evening all. Great post tonight TRex. Don’t think I’ll ever catch up with the comments though.
Craig’s ultimate humiliation – the ACLU taking up his case!
I’m still laughing…
TRex @ 123
Now, that’s the spirit!!
Okay,
The first call resulted in , uh, I dunno how he’s gonna vote. Could you, like, ask around the office. All out to lunch. I’ll call back. Please find out. He said he’d try, but that things were “kinda up in the air around here.” Oh?
Then, he young man wasn’t there but an older gal explained to me that They never know how the senator is going to vote until after the vote. ‘Cause, you know, there’s always these attachments they add and doesn’t know about them until he gets down onto the floor. (okay, there’s gonna be some jokes about that line.)
I told her that must make her job kinda hard, but she didn’t think so.
I asked her that since the Senator had had a run-in with the police, that I thought he might have a personal reason for taking a position (another opportunity for jokes here) on the aforementioned Amendment 2202. She didn’t get what I was inferring, but thanked me for taking the time to call back.
That’s it.
TRex @ 22
I’m afraid to ask, what clip? I’ve been offline most of the day, and feeling clueless. Again.
Judging by his last comment, CT must need to run out to the exclamation point store.
SnarKassandra @ 101
Sort of looks like nobody’s in charge. Just a sort of evil inertia.
Oh, wait, there’s Surge Lord Warmaster Patronus. Did you mean him? Or is he just in charge of the marketing?
OldCoastie @ 125
The Repugs must really hate that. They detest the ACLU – and all its liberal leanings.
evenin’ DrD
Personally I think the kid that got tasered was too over the top. In fact I would not be surprised if it wasn’t a setup. He was intent on getting dragged out by cops from the full video I saw from a cell phone video. You don’t act the way he did if you’re just being passionate. His whole behavior reeked of setup.
TeddySanFran @ 129
Bulk orders, best value.
Twain @ 131
Correction: Constitutional leanings.
Hiya Dr D!
demi @ 127
You got through that call, with all its double-entendre, without cracking up on the staffer? You got some kinda self-control, demi.
TRex @ 123
Only college?
demi, nice work — thanks for the synopsis!
TRex @ 86
Thanks, TRex. I was off googling, and managed to find it too! Wish I’d checked back sooner here.
It really is a very memorable FDL piece, for many reasons. I will give a few snippets:
~~~In the face of today’s sad news about Jane’s mom, I initially suggested to the Admin team that we declare a 24-hour moratorium on posting to show respect for the family. Christy checked with Jane and it turns out that’s the absolute last thing she wants us to do. Well, Jane, we love you and our thoughts and prayers are with you at this time. And if you say carry on, then by god, that’s what we’ll do.~~~
~~~Listen to me, Democrats! Never defend. Never explain. Attack, attack, attack! When a right-winger accuses you of something, back up, reframe, ignore the charges, just ATTACK. How hard can this be? Ann Coulter doesn’t waste her time defending herself against our accusations. Neither does Rush Limbaugh. They launch their attacks and the terms of the debate are set from there, and once again, as liberals, we are bringing knives to a gun fight.~~~
~~~To whit:
A Republican says, “All you liberals are cut-and-run traitors! You don’t support the troops!”
Instead of frantically beginning to tap dance and show that you’re not a traitor and that you do support the troops, you fire back, “Why are you Republicans such cowards? Your leaders are all draft-dodgers who’ve never fired a shot at anything but a bunch of canned quails and old lawyers. You’re using the troops as human shields against the midterm elections! Do you like seeing our brave men and women in uniform slaughtered and killed? Or are you just too much of a coward to face the consequences of your failed policies in Iraq? Which is it? Do you just hate the soldiers or do you hate your constituents?”~~~
finifinito @ 133
And that makes it okay?
CTuttle @ 121
The annual check to the ACLU is one I don’t mind writing one little bit.
Twain @ 131
The irony is just too delicious. It’s gotta be killing him that they are taking his case.
TRex @ 123
I don’t mind watching it on tv with some friends, as sort of a social thing, but the thought of being out there with 100,000 screaming maniacs kind of creeps me out.
EvilDrPuma @ 135
I am such a supporter of the ACLU. They do good work for all of us.
TRex @ 123
Thanks for that, TRex. I was born without the sports gene. My entire family are sports fanatics, and my sister and her husband are Gators. These are people who will travel across the country to go to a college game. These are people who will dress up depending on which of their ‘teams’ is playing that day. Flags on the lawn. I love my family, but it’s hard to believe we’re related.
SnarKassandra @ 104
Nothing at all!! I admire your spirit!!!
Twain @ 131
I’m sure he’s completely mortified – probably more so than being arrested for toe-tapping.
Twain @ 145
Damn right they do. I just wish I had money for them.
EvilDrPuma @ 141
The tasering is definitely not okay. However, a number of eyewitness accounts makes it clear this isn’t a case of jackbooted stormtroopers creating something that didn’t exist either. The kid was stupid as hell. The cops were stupid as hell, too.
Why are you Republicans such cowards? Your leaders are all draft-dodgers who’ve never fired a shot at anything but a bunch of canned quails and old lawyers. You’re using the troops as human shields against the midterm elections! Do you like seeing our brave men and women in uniform slaughtered and killed? Or are you just too much of a coward to face the consequences of your failed policies in Iraq? Which is it? Do you just hate the soldiers or do you hate your constituents?”
still gets me standing on my chair clapping, TRex. thanks for that, VG
madmommy @ 143
A high-profile case like Craig’s could end some pretty awful police entrapment that still goes on all over the country.
Is it too early to plug in the jukebox?
My favorite American band.
Suzanne @ 151
Yes!
EvilDrPuma @ 141
No it doesn’t, you’re right. But when they want to see what extra kind of fascist behavior they can get away with it would be real convenient to send over a Young Republican to act like a raving lunatic like that in a high security situation so they could blame “crazy libruhls” for being unhinged and put on a fascist police action display like they did.
Evening LL & Cassie. How’s life in NoVa and CentTex? Cooled off a bunch (highs in the 60s)here and been raining off and on for the last 3 days. Weather guy even reported a snow sighing up in the mountains up north of here. Fires haven’t gone away yet, though the smoke has 8-), and the end is in sight.
Suzanne @ 151
Hey Suz! Yes, I love that too. Rousing words. Should be repeated often. xxoo
burnspbesq @ 153
Viva Los Lobos! me gusto!
Although today’s Fed rate cut and the attendant irrational exuberance on Wall Street (who said the half-a-point cut was already priced in, anyway??) were the big news, sly oil prices hit a record again.
TSF
I’m really not good with self-control. You know that.
I was also watching Conyer’s hearing and posting commentary. So, I was kinda distracted. It was fun. Speaker phone. Redial. Blah, Blah. Type. Type.
AND
My little Asperger Man-Cub LOVED the Badgers.
He said he thought it was cool that I kinda liked it too.
Thanks for that. We saved.
Perfect for Asperger’s.
DrD, sounds like things are definitely improving out there :-) It’s been cool-ish here but we’re back up in the 80’s towards the end of the week, just in time for the first day of fall.
SEnator Webb on troop “burn out”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..64930.html
peanutbutter @ 150
Perhaps, but it was clearly a violation of the police protocols for use of force. The police there can’t taser people for being “stupid.” The kid was already subdued and on the ground.
TeddySanFran @ 159
was this today’s bright shiny thong to distract us from how crappy things are?
LoudounLib @ 158
Never to early for Los Lobos. !Buenissimo! Me gusto mucho. !Bravo!
Did billO’s spewing over KOS do them any harm? I really doubt it! Nor can his assinine comments about Jane harm her. Maybe get her some gigs on a bobblehead Sunday show… if she can stand it!
cleter @ 163
Hence, “the cops were stupid as hell,” part.
Bush and anyone who speaks for the administration has no credibility.
‘Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again’ — George W. Bush.
demi @ 160
Badger is the fiance’s nickname, so we are partial to all things badger, chez TSF. Glad you — and he! — enjoy it.
TeddySanFran @ 159
It is interesting that there is not one bit of handwringing over this news.
Perhaps they like it.
-GSD
Does anyone know of a good graphic to combat the “Freedom will Prevail” meme?
Prabhata @ 168
Silver-tongued devil that he is.
By the way, this is my 500th post at FDL.
peanutbutter @ 167
Tasering a helpless dude on the ground because he asked John Kerry why he rolled over in Ohio is more than stupid.
TRex @ 173
Snoopy Happy Dance!!! I’ve read every dayam one of them, big guy.
On tasering:
It is never OK to taser a nonviolent offender who poses no immediate risk to themselves or others. Violent maniacs are another story. For the record, I had a bunch of cop friends when I lived in Chicago.
TRex @ 173
And we have loved them all. Congrats.
Whenever I hear the Bush Cultists talking about how they want freedom for the Iraqis I remind them that they wanted to nuke Iraq and that they used to say one US soldier isn’t worth wasting for the lives of a thousand Iraqis.
-GSD
finifinito @ 171
Your question makes me think what a shame it is that there are no month-by-month data…hell, ANY hard data…on Iraqi civilian casualties. As far as I can tell, the only freedom that’s going on is people from their lives.
TRex @ 173
Cool.
TRex @ 173
Whatcha gonna do for an encore? ;) xoxo
That’s a nice round big number, TRex. Congrats. Glad I’m here to see it happen.
TRex @ 173
WOOOO-HOOOOOO! Party Time! Congrats big boy.
Yay TRex!!!!!!!! 500!!!!!!
TRex @ 173
Wow. What was the first? Was that back in the old days, on the old site? When you were Thesaurus Rex?
Marching Band for TREX!
Confetti!
Naked, er, um sweet young things popping out of cakes.
And more.
TRex @ 173
Balloons!!
Party Hats !!
Streamers !!
Glittery Confetti and Sparkly Tickertape !!
TRex @ 173
Wow! Congrats! Couldn’t happen to a better therapod!
DrDick @ 176
The definition of “violent maniac,” however, must never rest solely with the people carrying the tasers. Our dual problem here is too few standards and insufficiently rigorous enforcement.
cleter @163
No kidding! If 6 cops can’t remove a kid from an auditorium without using a tazer, they’re really bad at being cops. Heck, once he was on the ground it should have been easier to get him out, 4 cops each grab one limb, lift and go. Not that it should have ever come to that…
It’s as if the non-lethal weapons they have now are seen as toys to some cops. Just something to play with if they feel like it.
TSF,
Does the fiance by any chance sport a little white goatee?
TRex, here’s to 500 more!
Jinx, owe me a badger.
LoudounLib @ 191
5000 more! and all snark!
omigod, I would love to re-read TRex’s first post.
I know that one of the early ones was about pulling people out of the deep-freeze (but said more elegantly) and I was splitting my sides laughing.
GSD @ 178
Freedom for the Iraqis is the excuse for us to be there after the Bushies reasons for the war: (1) WMD (2) Links to Al Qaeda turned out to be false. There was never any mention of freeing the Iraqis from Sadaam before the invasion. It was all about protecting the Homeland and mushroom clouds
And we wonder why people around the world hate us. What a bunch of trash
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..64829.html
burnspbesq @ 39
John Bolton and Kristol are always wrong, but not irrelevant because Bush listens to them.
500 posts! Woohoo!
So is that a silver pen anniversary or gold pen? :)
demi @ 185
Just make sure those sweet young things come equipped with a Y chromosome, or they won’t have the desired effect.
Get Tough @ 195
We are a sick nation
TheOtherWA @ 189
Sure seems like it. As far as I’m able to tell, the fact that a taser is usually nonlethal is enough for some cops to decide they can use violence as a first resort and not a last one. Which gets us to the real issue, I’d say: what has happened to standards of police conduct in this country?
Valley Girl @ 194
VG, remember when Jane tossed the keys to the blog to TRex last year while everyone was at YKOS 1? Dayam fine party we had, with the big guy at the head of the conga line.
EvilDrPuma @ 188
Rachel Maddow was eloquent on Countdown tonite. She pointed out that tazers, when introduced, were supposed to be an alternative to shooting people. “See, we’ll shoot lots less people!” said the police forces who wanted tazers.
But sadly, no — police still shoot those people with their guns. There’s now an entirely new and much larger group of people who get tazered — folks you could never justify shooting, but you are pissed off at and want to control right now.
burnspbesq @ 199
Prabhata @ 197
They push their lies hard…shameless chicken hawks
TeddySanFran @ 129
What, I have plenty on tap!!! *g*
TeddySanFran @ 203
I’ll refer you right back to 201, because my statement there works just as well as a reply to what you have to say.
TRex @ 173
Congratulations! Wow! That should be celebrated!
Suzanne @ 202
I do indeed remember. I was a mod at the time! Oh, yes! I wonder if Jane knew what she was doing. ;);)
Kathleen @ 205
Catapulting the propaganda is hard work!
Prabhata @ 197
John Bolton’s theme song?
I don’t know how many posts I have done on my site, but I just added one more. On Washington DC and voting. It’s about this story:
Valley Girl @ 209
Why do you think TRex was at YKos this year?
finifinito @ 208
Whoa, Reverend Horton Heat! Excellent!
CTuttle @ 121
See? — you were running out of them at the end!
Suz- and there were a few glitches. Maybe TRex will remember… hehe.
Certainly not being argumentative, moi?, but I heard on one of the shows that he already had one handcuff on and that constituted a potential for his being dangerous to himself and others.
TheOtherWA @ 198
Mandarin Yellow!
TRex,
I think you made yourself clear. Are you listening, Senator Feinstein?
SnarKassandra @ 212
Can’t add much to that. I think your conjecture is right on.
TeddySanFran @ 203
Sad, but true. It is unfortunate, but true that the police attract a lot people who never be authorized to use force on anyone else. For the record, just let me say never get in an argument with the Oklahoma City police and never, ever piss off a cop in rural eastern Oklahoma. Not good for the health. Chicago, not so bad (unless you are on the Southside, Westside, or select areas of the Northside) and Missoula cops are generally great.
TheOtherWA @ 189
A sense of power. The Nazis were big on shocking people.
EvilDrPuma @ 213
Because TRex has been a very very good therapod, for the most part.
TRex, I baked you a cake as fast as I can. Congrats my friend!
SnarKassandra @ 212
Sad as I was for my former home to hear this news, it was a defeat in the Senate for Orrin Hatch and RGJoe — therefore bittersweet.
demi @ 217
I’m sure we’ll hear all kinds of excuses in the days to come.
demi @ 217
After watching the video and reading about his websites, although the tasering was over the top and it looks like he will have a nice, juicy settlement with UF, he was resisting arrest.
LoudounLib @ 214
I did a YouTube search on 500 and could not see myself bringing back that gotdamn 500 Miles song by The Proclaimers. This was a good tune I had forgotten existed that had 500 in its title I felt reasonably sure I could present to TRex as a gift of tuneage to celebrate the post with that would not embarrass me musically.
EvilDrPuma @ 141
I haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere so I’ll throw it out.
As a police supervisor in NYC during Rudy’s glory days I had teo occasions to use a taser on people.
In the first case a guy on Third Avenue and 44th Street was wildly swinging an axe during lunchtime. A radio car team was there trying to isolate him. It was winter and the guy had on a heavy coat that was open and layers of clothing underneath.
The cops maintained firearms control until I got on the scene. I told the guy to put down the axe or I was gonna taser him. He swung it more violently. I tasered him. One of the darts hit him in the chest, the other got caught in his coat. The taser had no effect except to piss him off.
He turned towards the cops and moved on them, one of the officers shot him, and the guy died at Bellevue.
The second incident occurred inside a stationhouse up in Harlem, A guy who we all knew was unbalanced came in acting irrationally. The cop sitting at the switchboard tried to prevent him from coming to the desk where I was, but he pushed the cop to the floor. Three other cops came out from an office and tried to stop him. He was about 6′2″ and 275. None of the cops had weapons other than guns and you don’t use a gun in an enclosed station house, especially when the guy isn’t using deadly physical force against anyone.
Rather than have him get hit with nightsticks over the head to subdue him, I tasered him and it worked. No permanent damage, minor injuries to a couple of officers.
There are numerous weapons in a police officers arsenal. The cops are trained to use these weapons in steps. Each weapon has its own situation. You don’t automatically go for the gun first of all because if you have a gun out and you aren’t going to use it the chances of you losing it in a scuffle are pretty good. Criminals know you can’t just shoot them…it’s the general public that doesn’t know the degrees of response.
A taser is somewhere between the nightstick and the gun, more towards the gun. If someone cannot be subdued with pepper spray from a distance and they are acting in such a way that getting closer to them is dangerous to all parties involved, a taser is a good choice because you don’t have to get very close to use it.
You do not use pepper spray or mace with people exhibiting symptoms of mental illness because in many instances it doesn’t work. The reason none of us used it on the guy who was eventually shot was for that very reason and also the chance that people in the street would be affected because, believe it or not, even though there was a guy swinging an axe and there were cops there with their guns out, there was still a New York crowd getting its entertainment during lunch hour.
This kid did not deserve to get tasered and unless the cops who assaulted him with that weapon can show that they were in fear for their lives or were afraid he was gonna cause them serious physical injury, I believe a good personal injury lawyer can make a case that the cops acted negligently.
Just my two cents.
burnspbesq @ 211
ROTFLMAO!
Show me a challenger with a chance: I got money.
My first post ever at FDL.
TeddySanFran @ 109
What?
And in honor of Constitution Day, some Constitutional fuckery!
TRex @ 232
I didn’t know you did wildlife documentaries. :-P
Looks like DrD posted while I was writing my comment.
finifinito @ 208
Not bad fini, but this is a celebration…
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YwEMxYggoKQ
TRex @ 232
Cool post.
Good night y’all!
Thank you James. My dept had an escalation of force policy that placed taser directly below gun, due to the potential health risks to the tasee.
SnarKassandra @ 238
Good night!
TeddySanFran @ 215
Dangnabit, I’ve got a reputation to uphold!!!! *g*
EvilDrPuma @ 201
Evening, everyone! Congrats on 500, T-Rex! Great work, demi! Awesome dive, Snarky!
and EDP-
I think standards of police conduct in this nation started dropping like a stone right around the time it was decided that P.D.’s could keep the proceeds from whatever they seized, instead of turning it over to the State. Overnight, it seemed to me, P.D.’s became far more corrupt and untrustworthy, as they now had a financial incentive to cheat, and/or game the system,IMHO.
Suzanne? Any validity to that?
SnarKassandra @ 238
Good night, Cassie.
hey james :-)
DrEvil,
I almost emailed you. But, as you are here, I can tell you that one of your earlier comments made me LOL (in a sorta sad way, reflecting on my own disappointment) comment was here
I’m with the both parties guilty school. Wanna be Hunter S. Thompson kid was a shitheel looking for a hassle and he got it with pack of college cops who elevated the use of force beyond the necessary levels.
Kerry’s thumb in his ass was to be expected.
He’ll threaten to kick someones ass all over the country a year from now.
-GSD
SnarKassandra @ 212
You nailed it!!! The discrimination is so alive and well. Just look at the Jena 6.
good night, Snarkita!
Valley Girl @ 245
Thank you. I was kind of proud of that one.
g’night Cassie, have a great day tomorrow.
LoudounLib @ 244
This isn’t gonna be a habit.
The taser thing just pisses me off. The cop was wrong I don’t care how unruly that kid was unless he was swinging the mike stand at people.
Elsewhere in the news …
Nebraska State Senator Sues God
from wa po politics by NATE JENKINS
LINCOLN, Neb. — The defendant in a state senator’s lawsuit is accused of causing untold death and horror and threatening to cause more still. He can be sued in Douglas County, the legislator claims, because He’s everywhere.
RonD, my department was the department other officers wanted to be working at. Very progressive, very technology oriented – my hiring process took almost a year because we only hired the best of the best. My experiences are based on that, which does not match your scenerio.
TRex @ 232
sweet
heh
GSD @ 246
That about sums ‘er right up.
Today’s GOP, purple finger voting rights for Iraqis but for residents of DC the GOP gives the middle finger snub.
-GSD
“night Cassie.
I like your posts.
james @ 236
Thanks for your comment, james. That’s what makes the toobz rule: firsthand experience speaks.
TRex @ 232
A very auspicious start to an illustrious career.
Get Tough @ 255
Yup. Sometime since the early 70s, John Kerry became a moral coward. We saw it in November 2004, and we saw it again yesterday.
TRex @ 232
Oh, thank you TRex!
And, to you remember the one about reviving people from the deep freeze? I do, but not with enough specificity to find it via google. But, it was hilarious.
Heading home, kids.
See you in a bit.
GSD @ 256
No oil in DC.
CTuttle @ 237
Too easy. Plus I have trauma from this song.
drive safely, trex, and we are gonna be waiting to see what 501 brings us
Valley Girl @ 261
MataTron Goes Long.
Anything for you, VG.
Night Cassie. Have a super day tomorrow.
Have you seen the documentary “No End in sight”?
http://noendinsightmovie.com/
Worth it!
TRex @ 262
‘Incomprehensible Demoralization’, sweetness, TRex!!!
Suzanne @ 265
Speaking of which: what is the official one-hour post count tonight? This is just amazing.
One more special cake for this evening. For all the cops and ex-cops who do things properly.
243 comments the first hour – dayam fast thread according to my fingers :)
TRex @ 266
Member of the 500 club?
Zed?
finifinito @ 264
Heh, self-inflicted, bodily trauma???
Suzanne @ 272
Give your knuckles a good cracking. You’ve earned it.
yellowdog jim @ 274
zed plus 273 ;-)
ah well, late, but… congrats on 500 TRex!
TexBetsy @ 271
Nice!
EvilDrPuma @ 260
He’s stale white bread now…with ketchup.
Suzanne @ 272
That’s a lot of fingers and toes…!!!
LoudounLib @ 277
so close.
Oklahoma a hotspot — for language loss.
EvilDrPuma @ 276
my poor 56k modem gets the worst of it :)
yellowdog jim @ 282
missed it by that much…
Off to bed for me, pups. Congrats on the 500 TRex!
g’night madmommy, sleep well!
yellowdog jim @ 274
well done. you’re just too fast for the rest of us.
madmommy @ 286
Nite, Madmommy!!!
RonD @ 242
I know we had a DEA supervisor who used to drive around Harlem picking out which cars she wanted seized. If my officers pulled over someone in a BMW or Mercedes and they didn’t have proper ID or there were drugs in the car, she would show up at the SH, ask them for proof that the car was bought with “honest” money and if they didn’t have a job or couldn’t provide a good source of the money she’d seize it as drug proceeds.
She seized an entire building on 116th Street right across from where Bobby Kennedy’s kid was collared as proceeds of a drug enterprise. Took everything in it.
I never minded much because it was less paperwork for me, my cops didn’t have to voucher anything because the NYPD didn’t retain it. She wrote receipts on brown paper bathroom towels and sent people on their way.
I’ve worked in Internal Affairs and have arrested cops for being drug dealers, for being hired guns for drug gangs, for being stupid and greedy.
In many instances these guys were already bad when they came on the job. One guy who was arrested in the 30 Pct in 1994 was a Dominican who was robbing other Dominicans. He planned to get a good amount of money and move back to the Dominican Republic. Other guys went to work with maybe 5 or 10 dollars in their pockets and were seizing duffel bags full of money, I shit you not, duffel bags. The guys they arrested were out of jail in less than a week.
I’m not excusing it, but when the people who are doing this kind of work are denied a reasonable wage while the mayor they work under is rewarding a woman in his administration by increasing her salary every other week and he keeps refusing to bargain with the cops and firefighters in good faith, something is bound to give.
Suzanne @ 253
I have to agree with Suzanne. There are good departments and bad departments (and a whole bunch somewhere in the middle). Would not give you twenty cents for most of the cops in Oklahoma (way too cocky and trigger happy) and that was true 30 years ago. Missoula city cops are great. I do not think I have ever heard of anyone getting tasered here and we get some real stupid yahoos here (especially on Friday and Saturday nights) and have a big meth problem in the area.
TRex @ 266
omigod!!!! thank you, thank you !!!!!! TRex!!!!!
Yes, that is exactly the one I was thinking of. I’m not sure the current FDL crowd is up to it. We were much more irreverent back then. hehehe… (just stirring)
Froomkin chatz tomorrow at 1pm eastern!
You may notice I no longer provide the WaPoO chatz links; the Post seems both evil and quite irrelevant nowadays. But Froomkin is special, so there you are.
LoudounLib @ 285
y’all are doing 243 comments per hour!
how’s a dude supposed to keep … …
…
…
…
… up?
Sweet dreams, Madmommy.
I think I’m going to go and read.
TB, thanks for the cakes, as usual.
G’nite RonD, CTuttle, TSF, LL (pretty lady, James and everyone! (plz forgive if those I’ve missed by name.) Girlfriend’s tired.
(CTuttle – I don’t own a bathing suit!)
Badger, Badger, Badger, Badger….
DrDick @ 291
Glad to hear it, DrDick – I’ll be in Missoula Friday to visit my sister for qa couple of weeks. I love it there.
In deference to an early morning and my 56K modem (Suzanne, you are not alone), I must bid you good night. Be excellent to each other.
Hate to bug out early while everyone is having fun, but I was up at 5:00 to watch the U.S. women, and I have to be up at 4:30 tomorrow to head to the airport (day trip to SF).
Cry “Havoc!” and let slip the therapods of snark.
Froomkin is all I read over at the waapoo, Teddy.
TeddySanFran @ 283
What does that mean, exactly? Okay, English and Spanish are not going anywhere, and I hear there is a minor congregation of Japanese relocating there, and Japanese is not going anywhere. So that leaves Native American languages, and I am sure there are several that have gone extinct since the Round Eye came a coming with their facial hair and McDonalds rappers trailing behind them, but that is happening everywhere. What makes Oklahoma special?
TeddySanFran @ 169
Teddy, is a badger anything like an otter?
from this little old dispatcher to the former law enforcement officers on the thread (and any current ones lurking) — thank you for your excellent work.
good night to demi, EDP and burns — sleep well, each and every one.
Get Tough @ 300
Native American languages
cleter @ 163
Agree! Moreover, tasers kill – what sort of lousy training leaves the campus cops feeling free to Taser a mouthy college student?
If that’s the campus policy on mouthing off, how do they handle complaints about dorm food? Electric trays?
Those cops are cowards and thugs – and whoever supervised them (and trained them, if on the Univ staff) deserved to be fired and dragged into civil court.
America is a democracy,not a video game. Those UF cops are brutal cowards, and don’t deserve any role in public service. They can’t be trusted with a full colostomy bag, much less a weapon.
Many people in law enforcement are honorable. In the past seven years, I’ve directly witnessed many other law enforcement officers violently assault non-violent citizens. I’ve seen this in Los Angeles, New York, D.C., Portland, Eugene….
oh – and Seattle.
I’ve seen patients with severe injuries from Miami, Philadelphia and the Northwest Forests..and watched the videos of their betaings at the hands of law enforcement – for the crimes of sitting and walking.
I’ve also attended the memorial for David “Gypsy” Chain – murdered on Pacific Lumber Company land by a logger who told David that he would kill David by felling a tree upon him.
And then he felled the tree and killed David.
All on tape.
But David – beloved by his Waldorf school community and so many others who came to remember him on an achingly beautiful day – David was an EarthFirst!er.
A DFH. The other.
Worst of all – a protester.
So David is dead – murdered.
And the Humboldt County DA never filed charges against the logger who murdered David.
Last I heard, the haunted logger is drinking his lifre out in Ferndale.
Ferndale -just down the road from Eureka…where the armed Humboldt County Sherrifs confronted young men and women “locked down” on forest roads and a Congressman’s lobby.
And painted the young citizens’ eyes with chemical weapons.
The Humboldt County Sheriffs thought this was so cool they videotaped it – for training.
While many honorable people serve in American law enforcement (and DA’s offices), the last ten years of casualties show that deliberate, wide-spread, violent suppression of non-violent speech and protest is the norm in American life.
The public “servants” in and out of uniform who meet speech and non-violent protest with beatings, pain “compliance” holds, chemical warfare, and electronic torture devices directly threaten our democracy and our Republic.
They defile the Constitution and their oaths to protect and serve.
Get the violent “speech enforcers” in all the law enforcement agencies out of uniform and out of DA’s offices and off the public purse – preferably with loss of pension.
Our Republic can’t afford imminity – legal or fiscal – for violent suppression of non-violent action.
TexBetsy @ 304
Heh!!!
Twain @ 288
who was it that said that there is sidereal time and there is cosmic time?
we run calendars and clocks to track sidereal time.
cosmic time is how you feel about it.
i trip the zed cosmic.
LoudounLib @ 303
Ah, the Lake shrinks, Nite sleepers!!!
Too many posts to catch up with tonight. So I’m just gonna sneak in.
yellowdog jim @ 274
Getting there! Just keep tryin’ ;-)
*waving to all the leaving sleepy pups*
From the NYT’s
Horror
There is a multimedia slide show of some of the photos. Worth spending a few minutes watching.
TeddySanFran @ 283
Sad, but true. Much of that is a reflection of the diversity of native languages spoken there (there are over 30 federally recognized tribes in the state and even more languages). Peoria went extinct while I was in high school and many others are seriously threatened. This is really the rule for native languages across the country. There are no more than a dozen iun the lower 48 which are actually viable language communities and they are all declining. Oklahoma does host a couple of those, Cherokee and Muskogee (spoken by the Creeks and the Seminoles) with about 13,000 native speakers each. Cherokee has dropped by about 2,000 in the last 20 years. When I first did research among them in the mid-70s thre were still old women who were monolingual Cherokee speakers.
500 down, and you have not lost a moment of snark since that first. Congratulations, TRex.
GSD @ 170
The FED cut interest rates prior to 1929.
And the band played on.
Native American languages — and the forced relocation of many different Native American speakers from across America to that part of America throughout the years. And the discipline in schools for speaking other than English. It’s in the article at the link.
*poof*
paging dr murphy, dr kirk murphy, please pick up a blue facebook courtesy phone.
ygm on fb.
Da Spook.
*poof*
OT China has evacuated 2 million people from Shanghi due to approaching typhoon. Can you imagine? And we couldn’t even get all the people out of Nola !
Alicia @ 296
Glad to have you in town. The smoke has mostly cleared out (though it may be back), but the weather is a bit cool and damp these days.
As far as having a perception of rampant police corruption, I’d like nothing more than to be wrong-I used to hang with a local deputy who was a fellow musician as well, and through him got to know a number of the deputies-about 1/3 were ok, 1/3 on steroids and looking for an excuse, and about 1/3 just corrupt as hell. I got a long lecture from one officer on the necessity for every officer to carry a throw-down-an untraceable handgun-…and another officer with 11 years on the force, on the day he quit, walked around the SO with a box full of throwdowns, passing them out to all his friends.
This colored my perception. I am not entirely objective on the subject, and would be thrilled to find I’m wrong.
EvilDrPuma @ 297
Night EDP.
RonD @ 319
It about matches mine.
Twain @ 317
My first reaction immediately upon seeing that 2million number elsewhere this evening was also “How did they do that and we couldn’t help NoLAns?”
Look. The tasering was wrong. Period. What have we come to that we can condone such a thing. Clearly, time and again, we are faced with cases of oppression unreasonably implemented. It is sickening to find that people make excuses for its use. It is nothing more than “strongman” tactics. It is not to say that a murderer should not be subdued…but, someone speaking out???? Not in my America.
peanutbutter @ 310
i’m gonna be a diamond some day.
Some OT “A guy walks into a bar…” humor:
[RBG Note; in the future, to avoid tripping the the moderation filters, it may be wise to break comments like this into several different parts. Also, please do not quote this comment or your comment will not appear. Thanks.]
AZ Matt @ 312
No Thanks, I ‘toured’ Dachau, it’s a sad episode in our dismal past!!! 8-(
TeddySanFran @ 203
Thanks for pointing this out, Teddy.
Last night I cited a comprehensive report prepared for the European Parliament (An Appriasal Of Technologies of Political Control). The crowd control weapons section carefully documents the lethal “mission creep” after any “non-lethal” weapon is introduced.
Campus cops are not thinking about storm trooper tactics, protecting the fascists or providing protection for the Republicans, they are campus employees who watch trust fund babies, smart asses and momma’s boys, sometimes all three, or daddy’s little girls, walk around for four (or more) years complaining about tests and stress when they are trying to put food on the table. There generally two types of campus cops: (1) the ones who you partied with and (2) the ones who tried to bust you for playing disc in the quad after hours (bastards). This is really getting more press than it should. He was resisting arrest and deserved to go to the clink. He did NOT deserve to get tasered, and will garner a nice settlement from UF for that, I am sure. It really is not a 1st Amendment issue.
Wow, I’m thinking I’m pretty naive reading this.
Get Tough @ 328
I agree! He was deliberately provocative, but, the Kampus Kops were over-zealous…!!!
The Patraeus “report” and the “Betray Us” ad remind me of an old Far Side comic:
“If a tree falls in the forest, and there’s no one around, and it hits a mime, does anyone care?”
That’s pretty much what the response has been. Almost no one was swayed. Everyone pretty much sees it for what it was–a stalling tactic. The best analysis of the whole dog and pony show that I’ve seen said that it was significant only for the fact that this is really the last card Bush can throw to try to drag this thing out. There are no troops to do another “re-surge”, Saddam’s dead, and Iraq has a democratically-elected government. There’s nothing else that Bush can ask America to wait for. Which means we’re now going to spend the next 16 months watching people die while Bush just sits there and looks stupid.
LS @ 324
In Salt Lake City, an old great grandmother has been arrested, bruised and handcuffed for not watering her lawn, and faces five months in jail. In Connecticut, porn came up on a school computer, and while the school admits it had not updated the computer protection, that teacher faces 40 years in jail. In Georgia, that young man, ten years for consensual oral sex with a girl friend.
kirk, i recall your references from last nite. you might want to reach rachel maddow at air america with the links to that information, if she doesn’t already know about it. it certainly sounded tonite like her views had been informed by that section on mission-creep. but it would definitely complement her stated views, and could provide background and support if she doesn’t already know about it.
i’m a big fan of rachel’s.
CTuttle @ 329
Yeah. He wanted to create a scene and the cops played right into his hands. Bah.
Yours for better cop training. The students, I’ll leave to someone else ;-)
mulligatawny @ 332
I hear you. Same crappola. The student happened to be an incident that got publicity. The poor kid in Georgia…drives me nuts.
Hey Kirk do you have any friends with any of the eco groups in Indiana? I have a fundraiser for Barry Welsh (D-IN06) in Indy next week I need to get word spread for that is a screening of An Inconvenient Truth.
TeddySanFran @ 333
So am I. I think she’s got one of the best news shows out there.
CTuttle @ 330
I disagree that it is not a 1st Amendment issue. Sorry. We are living in BushWorld now.
Thanks, Teddy – I’ll send it off.
[The data are a bit dense (that part of the report has some wonky statistical bits). I hope the Air America staff don’t lump my email in with the perpetual motion “discoveries” and just toss it….]
Just with any profession, the best way to lead is by example. My chief, the one I spent the majority of my time working under, had an open door, full transparency policy – we canned folks for being overly aggressive and would later find them working at smaller departments in rural locations or campus police departments. I’m not picking on those departments, just saying that in my experience – there are departments who will take officers that other departments have rejected.
I was proud to be at my department and am as embarrassed looking at that taser video today as I was looking at the rodney king video. Behaviors that shame my profession shame me.
kirk murphy @ 327
you’re in uniform as a law enforcement agent.
you are not in danger.
your team is holding down a perpetrator, of whatever.
perpetrator is immobilized and no threat, albeit he is uncooperative.
THEN you administer 50,000 volts to him.
you are instant judge, jury and punisher.
the constitution has been vaporized.
you have committed torture.
you work on a university campus and you don’t know the drill for handling loud mouth assho1es?
TeddySanFran @ 323
I would guess (i.e. I’m too lazy to check) that we evacuated about that many people from Houston and Galveston for Hurricane Rita. But we also left quite a few people behind. One of the big reasons that a lot of people got left behind in New Orleans is that many of them didn’t have cars. They could have been bussed out in school buses, but you have to have a destination in mind when you do that. The ultimately bussed tens of thousands of people to the Astrodome. That would have been politically impossible to do if the people of Houston hadn’t spent the previous five days watching the whole story play out on television.
LS @ 335
Throw in the Jena 6, too. There are absolutely injustices happening everywhere, while the ones who should be getting thrown in the clink are getting away with it. But that guy at the University of Florida is not one of those injustices. It is another shiny object.
Suzanne @ 340
well said. thank you.
finifinito @ 336
Fini, last year I had the pleasure of “medicing” at a Ruckus camp at Heartwood in southern Indiana. They’re about two counties north of the Ohio River.
How far is that from y’all?
It’s a shame public officials have to be bribed with campaign contributions to do what is right and the will of the people. So be it.
Great post TRex. Methinks you wrote it with a 2X4
I don’t think we evacuated anywhere near that number during Hurricane Rita, and we certainly did not do it efficiently or completely.
TeddySanFran @ 109
All Your Base Are Belong To Us
I think the kid’s questions were legitimate. Why did Kerry concede in 2004, in light of questionable vote results, and he also asked him if he was a member of Yale’s Skull and Bone Society. An answer to those two questions would have been good…unfortunately, he got shocked. Nice going.
kirk murphy @ 345
Not entirely far but they might know folks up here in Indianapolis in the middle of the state. Everyone in the various movements here get really close and share resources. Unfortunately I am not very well connected with the eco groups here and we haven’t hired an outreach coordinator yet.
Suzanne @ 340
But you are one of the good ones, Suzanne. I like to think of myself as one of the good ones, too, despite the fact that one of my colleagues is looking to have sex with a five year old up in Detroit. The UF cops went overboard with the taser, and probably with pushing him away from the mike. But from what I have read, and this does not condone the tasering, or the shoving at the beginning, but the UF guy has had a history with the campus police and it got ugly.
T’day be Talk Like a Pirate Day, ye scallywags!
Check out Stephen ColBEAR’s holiday makeover. (AKA, Renee was *desperate* for a break from lecture prep.)
Suzanne @ 340
This is the core of all professional ethics-the idea that the profession is deserving of respect and protection from those who would sully it.
Pity that the highest officials in our land don’t have the ethical character of one of your toenails, Suzanne.
You are all that :->
CTuttle @ 330
The kid was being an ass, but you don’t taser someone for being an ass. If being an ass warranted being tasered, I would glow like Vegas. Anyway, I was astonished at how unable Senator Kerry was at thinking on his feet. He should have cut the young man off and told him he would answer one or two of his questions, but that he needed to STFU and let him respond. When the cops grabbed him, he missed a golden opportunity to say “Unhand that fellow. This is still America, and I am beholden to him, even if he doesn’t vote in my state. I am a Democrat, and I believe I have a responsibility to answer his questions. The Republicans might not feel this way, but they are wrong. Now sit down and shut up, young man, and I will do my very best to anwer your questions and address your concerns.” Now if this was my instantaneous response, why was Senator Kerry so flat-footeed in his lack of response? No f*cking wonder he nearly lost the last presidential election.
Renee in Ohio @ 352
{{{{{{Renee}}}}}}
Get Tough, it goes back to training – and the expectation that campus police would have considerable experience in dealing with loud-mouthed activists who go over the pre-designated speaking time limit.
Just because some fool is trying to push my buttons is no reason for me to act like a fool in return and end up on some video somewhere.
YARGH! ME MATEYS! AVAST! SHiver me timbers I needs me my rum!
LS @ 336
And the majority of Americans, the media and even the blogosphere will spend more time on the taser event than on the 4 million Iraqi refugees and the 1 million dead that our direct result of our invasion. We do have our priorities
Actually, Kerry was/ is a member of Skull and Bones. It was widely reported back in 2003.
Just one link of many I found back then: here
LAST cake of the night is a dart board cake in honor of Bob in HI.
Happy Birthday Bob!
arrrrrgh!
LS @ 349
Maybe Kerry should be asked these questions again, every where he goes, over and over, until he does answer them.
Just sayin’.
Get Tough @ 349
Do you mean your colleague as in a fellow lawyer in some other office, or like you actually work with the guy and know him?
burnspbesq @ 54
I’m glad you didn’t leave off the words “relief pitching”.
Technicolouryawn @ 354
LOL! You and me, both. Kerry did miss a golden opportunity, and like GSD said, Kerry in about a year will bring it up again and say what an injustice it was. Too little, too late, Senator.
Get Tough @ 350
Having sex with a 5-year old, deserves a harsh sentence. Speaking out, perhaps too long, perhaps extremely, does not, under any circumstance, any law, any moral…deserve shocking with a tasar. It is wrong, and the police abused their authority. There is zero comparison.
Suzanne @ 340
I wish they were all like you and your chief, Suz.
mulligatawny @ 332
I’m going to disagree about the Georgia case. Saying he got ten years for consensual oral sex is like saying Al Capone got busted for tax evasion–it’s technically true, but it overlooks the reason he was in the crosshairs in the first place. The Georgia case came to the attention of the police when a girl claimed she had been raped in a hotel room by the man who is currently in jail. Police went to the hotel room and found a video tape showing the girl having sex with the defendent. My impression from what I’ve read is that the girl appeared drunk, stoned, or drugged, or some combination of the three. Still, the sex was found to be consensual, in part because the girl was clearly supporting her weight with her arms on the ground. (I really wish I was making this up.) However, the tape also showed the same man receiving oral sex from a 15 year-old, and the jury really couldn’t avoid a conviction there. I have a really hard time being sympathetic in circumstances like those.
Eye seem ta rrremember something about Jane naught liking Talk Like A Pirate Day – so, shhh, let’s not tell tha lass.
Okay, devils advocate for a moment on the tasered kid by the Tonton-Macoute…
Had anyone ever told that kid no before, and meant it? A problem perhaps shared by Dubya and OJ?
Certainly he didn’t deserve to be tasered.
LS @ 348
According to various eyewitnesses, there was a time limit for the Q&A session which was already cut short since the talk went over time. The kid barged in thru the line, grabbed the mic, started asking questions. They started to stop him, Kerry said to let him ask his questions, and it looks like one or two were answered, and then they cut the mic off because he kept going and was cutting all the other people waiting in line out. That’s when he started yelling and pulling back against the officers who were pulling him away from the mic. You can hear the audience cheer as he’s led off.
I wouldn’t say a case of first amendment, here, really. Although Kerry’s statement afterwards was really bizarre and doesn’t match the video.
I don’t say this justifies the tasering because it doesn’t. I’m pointing out, however, that he wasn’t nicely asking questions when he got punked, either. He should have been dragged off. The problem is, he should have been dragged off to cool off somewhere, not dragged off to be tasered.
Alicia @ 368
I have known lots of police officers and firefighters. They would never shock a young man for speaking out….they would never pile on a reverend and break his ankle. Something is warped.
Alan Greenspan was sacked in 1970, as consultant for a Wall Street financial firm.
Sounds about right.
RonD @ 363
Or until we all get tazered.
TheOtherWA @ 363
The former. Same kind of job, though.
burnspbesq @ 153
Those guys are sooooo gooooodddd for sooo long it’s scary.
They are multi instrumentalists, and will throw different looks, configurations, and genres at you from song to song.
Easily the most COMMANDING band ever, for me as the audience member.
They took what The Grateful Dead used to do, and went hyperspace with it.
Love those folks.
‘Good Morning, Aztlan.”
And so it goes..goodnight, everyone. It’s truly a pleasure to hang here with all of you, here at the crest of the wave, and the sooner I get back the happier I’ll be.
Goodnight, all.
Well it has been fun, but I best head off to bed. Otherwise my students will think I’m even more incoherent than usual. Take care and enjoy the snark.
TeddySanFran @ 374
Where I come from that is called foreplay.
Sleep well Ron D
TexBetsy @ 378
And Dr Dick.
LS @ 366
LS, I wasn’t comparing the two.
All police departments in the US, whether large or small, are not like the UF campus PD. Some internal affairs bureau will investigate their actions. I’m just saying that the general public need not fear their local police department.
And Suzanne – to be explicit – I wish everyone in law enforcement had your values and those of your former chief.
[And I wish everyone in my profession did, also.]
I don’t see that you are in any way associated with what those campus police did…
but then I feel ashamed about the physicians who clearly observe US military/CIA torture and keep silet. Or worse.]
peanutbutter @ 371
To be honest, I kind of like the zero-tolerance policy they seem to have against linebreakers in this case. It would certainly make things more orderly at the post office or the bank. But I think it would be most useful in the boarding area at the airport.
Get Tough @ 375
Ok, thanks. It’s stunning that anyone would arrange sex with a 5 year old, but the guy’s a prosecutor. An Asst. USA who probably convicted people of the very crime he’s accused of. It just doesn’t make sense.
Frank Probst @ 383
*spew*
Yeap, kirk, same kinda shame :(
Good night Ron and Dr. Dick.
peanutbutter @ 386
I’m wincing from pain because I’m laughing so hard.
peanutbutter @ 372
as i say
yellowdog jim @ 341
you’re in uniform as a law enforcement agent.
you are not in danger.
your team is holding down a perpetrator, of whatever.
perpetrator is immobilized and no threat, albeit he is uncooperative.
THEN you administer 50,000 volts to him.
you are instant judge, jury and punisher.
the constitution has been vaporized.
you have committed torture.
you work on a university campus and you don’t know the drill for handling loud mouth assho1es?
I would like these campus cops to patrol my bus stop in the morning, as well, Frank Probst. Those queue-jumpers really piss me the fuck off! Especially when there aren’t enough seats on the bus. Tazer ‘em all, I say.
TeddySanFran @ 374
The kid’s questions were legitimate in the extreme. Why did Al Gore AND John Kerry both concede so rapidly and so willingly? Excuse me, there’s someone at the door……..Aaargh!!! Stop it!!! I’m SORRY, OK? I’m SORRY-JEEZE!!!
Did anybody happen to catch the scores in the AL East? Just asking.
TheOtherWA @ 384
Most sexual deviance makes little sense to the rest of us.
BigMitch @ 392
nope
BigMitch @ 390
NO
Sorry Mitch, I only paid attention to the NL East tonight ;-)
DrDick @ 378
Dr. Dick, nice synopsis on the Native American languages. Are you a linguist (if I could do it all over again…)?
NO!
TexBetsy @ 395
Ah, but he’s a heterosexual! Quick, let’s outlaw marriage between straight people!
JAR tracking is actually somewhat entertaining these last few weeks:
last 3:
Fox 9/12 37%, Fox 8/21 33%, Fox 7/17 32%
CBS 9/14 29%, CBS 9/4 30%, CBS 8/8 29%
Pew 9/12 31%, Pew 8/1 31%, Pew 7/25 29%
Others follow the CBS, Pew pattern… guess it must be the liberal media conspiracy hiding that HUGE spike in presidential approval Fox discovered… Cavuto must’ve found a way to hack Opinion Dynamics’ servers
TexBetsy
Thank God for that.
LoudounLib @ 384
With all due respect to Suzanne and the innumerable other excellent law enforcement officers, I disagree. Fear your local police department. They have tremendous power. Power corrupts.
My father was a volunteer cop, and I loved him dearly. So when I say, no disrespect intended, trust me that I mean it, Suzanne.
TexBetsy @ 395
You said it. I have a little 4 year old girl, and the thought….
TeddySanFran @ 393
we could have the tazer built into the seats.
BigMitch @ 395
Wow, persecution? …you be the judge…!!! ;-)
CTuttle @ 405
I see you’ve got your supply of !’s taken care of, then ;-)
Well, Mitch, your experience is not mine – I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about that.
Valley Girl @ 292
Thanks so much for that!
Get Tough @ 403
I got teenagers that walk home from school and all over the neighborhood.
My 13 yr old was offered drugs for the first time this past weekend. Refused, rejected, and started text messaging both me and his dad to try to get himself out of the situation.
OT, but this taser thing is really bugging me. How many incidents of completely unwarranted taser torture occur out-of-sight, in precincts, prisons or just out of camera range that we never hear about? legitimizing torture is simply monstrous
CTuttle @ 405
giving CT the LQQK
Good night folks – wishing you a good and shock-free night.
(No disrespect to any “recreational” TENS enthusiasts… not trying to rain on their parade.)
CTuttle @ 408
Did it sound to you like everyone wanted to know what happened? I can’t tell. Oh nevermind. Don’t want to go off topic, Gosh forbid.
Suzanne @ 414
Okay, I need a ruling on CT. Is he/she a troll? What are you, CT?
Night Kirk.
Some of us use the TENS as prescribed even.
Good night, Kirk.
Frank Probst @ 386
Well, I’m no legal eagle obviously, but it was, afterall a Q&A session. As a person who voted for Kerry, I welcome anyone who nails him down to get a straight answer once and for all as to why he didn’t contest the vote in light of the evidence of potential voter irregularities. That has haunted me since then. I applaud the guts of this kid who stood up and asked the questions I wanted answered. I despise the actions of the “police” for stopping him from receiving an answer to his questions. They were not crazy questions. They have needed to be answered for years. Kerry did nothing. He was heroic in his efforts to fight the evilness of Vietnam, but he has apparently not been able to relate to what is going on now. The kid did not deserve to be dragged and shocked, because he asked questions that are not “acceptable”. The kid was right. The cops were overreaching and out of line.
Why is CT now a troll all of a sudden?
Get Tough @ 412
Looks like a troll to me. It’s the beard.
CT is not a troll. He is one of us. An odd one of us, but definitely one of us.
peanutbutter @ 409
Don’t despair…!!! 8-)
TexBetsy @ 412
Good work, TexBetsy. I am petrified about what is going to transpire in about 9 years.
BigMitch @ 413
Mitch, ya come in here to pick a fight or to chat about political stuff? Cause, to be honest, I’m not really in the mood to have to explain how this is TRex’s thread and he has a known dislike of sports.
Do you walk into people’s houses and piss on the drapes cause you don’t like em?
I can vouch for CT, if that makes any difference ;-)
Twain @ 420
I think he has hooves.
TexBetsy @ 417
TexBetsy, you’re absolutely right.
Living in San Francisico may have left me with sampling bias ;)
Wishing you a pain-free night tonight and all nights.
Sleep well.
Get Tough @ 417
He, uh, Human??? 8-)
TJ @ 426
BTW, I was kidding there.
*poof*
AmericaBLOG’s take on Teh Tazering: link.
(writing frantically and TRYING to avoid hitting “refresh comments” button)
(poof)
TRex @ 232
And I STILL love Randi Rhodes!
Great first effort THoss!
Suzanne, from day to day, cops do excellent service. No doubt about it. But when crunch time comes, and the government opposes the people, whose side will the cops be on? If you fear your government — and I do — it only makes sense to fear the cops.
None of this takes away from the fact that we need cops, and that most are honest.
TexBetsy @ 423
Okay. I have been absent from the Lake recently, so I did not know how to respond to CT. I thought CT was in the last thread and treated him/her accordingly.
Alicia @ 402
in our more dramatic moments we sometimes like to think our marriage as beings like we’re outlaws … …
…
…
… especially when we’re around the inlaws!
Yay, Suz, moderating out here where we all can see!
Get Tough, I was wondering about all the “what??” comments in the last thread ;-)
CTuttle @ 430
Y’all know what CT means, don’t ya???? Huh???
TJ @ 428
Dayam, I’m glad I made such an impression…!!!
althespook @ 432
I am entirely amazed that Pam (of Pams House Blend) just did not get the facts right. The kid was tazed in the hall. But, there you go.
CT is a beloved member of the Lake community (despite the inexplicable appreciation of spectator activities involving protracted transport of semi-spheroids or spheres across circumscribed areas carefully designed to approximate wood or turf)
LS @ 435
Speaking of which, what does LS mean?
TeddySanFran @ 433
And the person who gets called a bitch, unfortunately, teddy. at least it is not real bullets that get fired at me
CT, scroll up just a little bit — I vouched for ya ;-)
CT is not a troll – he just plays one occasionally
So, I want to bet that the stinky meteorite in peru is the ammonia servicer thrown overboard from the iss. any takers?
LS @ 437
I’m a little slow. Can you fill me in?
somewhat interesting Facebook study.
CTuttle @ 434
And you have a great sense of humor.
LS @ 439
Dare I ask…???
TexBetsy @ 412
Congratulations!!
High FIVE!!
(as betsy knnows, we belong to an 8yo manperson.)
TJ @ 446
Woops, nevermind.
kirk murphy @ 440
That makes sports sound as boring as I view them. Hell that was almost Greenspan-like.
Suzanne @ 446
I prefer Devil’s advocate…!!!
Alright, I’m going to guarantee the appearance of the late late night post by writing an EPU’d g’night to all of you!
past my bedtime, unfortunately — may the best zed win ;-)
TexBetsy @ 443
Ooooh….ummmm….lisencious…sloth…ummmm lazy Susan……ummmm….lousy sentinel…ummmm
LoudounLib @ 437
Preciously. No offense, CTuttle. Just looking after my peeps.
Up almost 21 hours now…
why do I torture myself like that?
good night all.
CT is also slang for a concern troll – someone who comes onto a thread determined to talk about their pet something that has nothing at all to do with the subject at hand and keeps trying to hijack the thread to their topic – completely disrespectful of the front pager’s post.
TheOtherWA @ 454
I myself am in the class that can name 5 great orchestra conductors or opera singers; but not one home run person. Oh well!
peanutbutter @ 456
Nite, PB!!!
twȝk @ 445
cool. thanks.
smapdi @ 447
good call.
smapdi @ 445
lol, good call!
LoudounLib @ 457
Good night, LL. And please get at least 7 or 8 hours, k?
night PB. night LL.
nite, LL, CT, et al.
LoudounLib @ 459
Nite, Ma’am!!!
BigMitch @ 430
My boss is gonna kill me for this:
As I may have mentioned here, my boss is a recovering Jehovah’s Witness. His dad was one of the leaders of that church in the 1930’s and 1940’s, was nominated to take over after JF Rutherford (their second leader) died but was euchered out and eventually left the church and had a kid (my boss). brought the kid up as a JW half and half a “normal” person. ick.
anyway, here’s the point of this little rant: back in the 1940’s, during WW2, the JW were famous as CO’s, not willing to fight for ANY government of our “world run by satan”, not even as medics, anything. of course that got a lot of people angry at them who were already tired of their “we’re right and you are all wrong” attitude to begin with.
In texas one evening in 1943, a mob decided to lynch a traveling JW minister who was staying at a farm near Waco texas (i think, been a while since I heard this story). Mob was local sheriff, his deputies, a bunch of local drunks and plenty of irate guys whod lost sons, or brothers or fathers in The War. They had shotguns, riles, pistols, tar, feathers, etc. They piled in about 20 cars and headed for the farm.
The local newspaper editor called the Texas Rangers to find out what they were going to do, would they arrest the lynch mob leaders afterwards (he seemed to assume the lynching was a forgone conclusion.) The Ranger said “there won’t be any lynchings in my county tonight.” He got in his car, drove at breakneck speed to the driveway of the farm, turned his car sideways to block the road, stood in front of it with a flashlight and an UNDRAWN six cylinder revolver as the mob drove up.
They saw him and before they could open their doors he said “Move on, citizens. the first person who steps out of their car will be shot dead.” he didn’t draw his weapon, but they mob knew he meant it. They circled him for about an hour making threats and shooting at trees and signs until a group of ranger cars and an armored car from a nearby army post showed up.
The leader of the mob was given six months suspended sentence and fired, his deputies resigned. the JW left, unmolested.
When asked why he defended the JW, the Ranger said, “i didn’t defend those nazi bastards, i defended the rule of law.”
kinda makes the point, don’t it..
TheOtherWa — you can count on it! On my days off now :-)
TheOtherWA @ 454
Heh, I’m watching Greenspan on the Newshour as I type!!! lol!
jinx, tw3k!
althespook @ 470
Yes it does. And somehow, the JW’s aren’t the worst thing on the planet now. THe LAWBREAKERS called the “Current Administration” are, aren’t they?
al that is a great story – thanks
Suzanne @ 460
I try to keep it on topic even when there’s colossal games afoot…!!! *g*
Yes it does, Al. Very well.
TexBetsy @ 461
np
TeddySanFran @ 462
lol, jinx!
TheOtherWA @ 473
agreed.
TRex is upstairs
unconventional conventionist @ 470
oh yeah. the JW are weird but harmless unless you are one of their kids. And at one time they held beliefs like desegregation and separation of church and state much in advance of mainstream faiths. they actually arose out of the same stock as 7th day adventists and christian scientists, all inspired by the publication of the first greek to english interlinear in the late 1870’s IIRC.
Anyway, wouldn’t be a JW for anything, but would die to protect their right to BE JW’s, (like voltaire)
I was a college suck-urity officer for 5 years. It is a very difficult job. Very little training and you get shoved into the position of being a cop, custodian, counselor, security guard, riot control, detective, sleuth, ambassador, head shrink and many more.
I was very honest and ethical for about 4 years and then I became corrupted.
It happens very easily. Poor pay, long hours, little appreciation, much abuse.
So when my buddy got the key to the kitchen and we treated ourselves to the shrimp and lobsters on long holiday weekends….we felt we just enjoying the perks of the job.
But then I fell off the wagon, got involved with students, with campus politics….
At one point all of the department members had a mutiny and told the boss he had better quit.
Not a smart move. He said he’d leave then he went and sicced the VP on us. The Veep was as deadly as Cheney. Then came a week long inquisition from human resources. The assistant director grilled us with all kinds of questions and then at one point, we were questioned one at a time…one question was ‘Did you ever take food from the dining facilities’?
Apparently my blue-collar talking point was used by everyone because the ass. director said: “The kitchen must have a lot of baloney, everyone said they would occasionally take a baloney sandwich”.
It would make a great novel.
But I was never, ever physically abusive towards anyone and didn’t abuse the students.
-GSD
Suzanne @ 475
I don’t beleive all the JW stories my boss tells me, i think the church faked some of them. but i believe this one is actually on the Texas Rangers web site or their historical writeups. It was quite the deal at the time.
God Love Voltaire.
Trying for the elusive 500.
TRex @ 173
felicitations et remerciments, monsieur Trex. your writing has provided (for) many many evenings of hilarity, outrage, poignancy, and absurdity.
you’re the best!
masaccio @ 231
Somebody please show this man the way to give.
waiting for the fatuous Kathleen Hall Jamison to come out and say it’s Betrayous fault or Shrub’s fault for not defending themselves well as she did with Kerry
the stupid partisan bint at Annenberg (and Pew)
had a lot to say during the 2004 campaign and Kerry but is remarkably silent now especially since we learned they are the architects of karl Rove’s math….