Glenn Greenwald’s piece on the Kagan family is such a concise, elegant, tight portrait of everything that is wrong with the warmongers who lead this country and dominate our political discourse that it almost makes your teeth hurt. Read it now if you haven’t. But this particular point Glenn makes is, I think, worth coming back to over and over again:
Fred Kagan yesterday went to National Review — home to countless tough guy warriors like him who fight nothing — to argue against Senator Webb’s bill. There is no need to give our troops more time away from the battlefield, Kagan types. Besides, doing that would be too administratively difficult (”this amendment would actually require the Army and Marine Corps staffs to keep track of how long every individual servicemember had spent in either Iraq or Afghanistan, how long they had been at home, how long the unit that they were now in had spent deployed, and how long it had been home”).
If troops want more time at home, Kagan says, there is an easy way to achieve that: “win the war we’re fighting.”
[]
[T]o…watch Fred Kagan sit around opposing Senator Webb’s attempts to relieve some of the strain on our troops — all because it would require too much paperwork to figure out and because they haven’t yet won Fred Kagan’s war and thus deserve no breaks — is almost too much to bear. But it is worth forcing oneself to observe it, as unpleasant as it might be, because within this ugly dynamic lies much of the explanation for what has happened to our country since the 9/11 attack, and the personality type that continues to drive it today.
George Bush said it himself last Thursday:
President Bush contended on Thursday night that his plan to begin withdrawing some troops from Iraq gradually was based on a principle he called “return on success,” saying that progress made so far could be squandered by the deeper and speedier reductions that the war’s opponents have demanded.
[]
“The more successful we are, the more American troops can return home,” Mr. Bush said, trying once again to win support for a war in Iraq that remains deeply unpopular.
That’s it. Bush has said he will veto the Webb amendment to give the troops adequate rest in between tours of Iraq. They obviously don’t deserve to come home because they haven’t “won.”
If the Democrats really do have 57 votes in the Senate for the Webb Amendment there is absolutely no reason not to go balls to the wall as Digby says and implement the Kleiman strategy. Make the Republicans get up over and over again and denounce the troops as losers and tell us how they can’t come home until they win. Rudy Giuliani can get out in front of this one, he’s already been blaming the troops for Bush’s bungled war.
Picking off three Republicans with an election coming up? Pleeease. Just give us the chance.
Related posts:
- Disgraceful: In 8 Years, George W. Bush Never Greeted Fallen Troops
- Late Night: Fred Thompson, Defeatist Underminer of US Troops, Says We’ve Lost the War in Afghanistan
- George Bush Personally Sent Card, Gonzales to Thug Up Ashcroft
- George W. Bush, Apparently Unironically, to Unveil Public Policy Institute Today at SMU
- Ross Douthat: George W. Bush was a “Good” President
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Unbelievably despicable people. Blech.
And it looks like they can’t fill the troops gap with mercs anymore.. Blackwater has been BANNED from Iraq, for wanton murder:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/…..iraq.main/
…but evidently they’re still good enough for NOLA, or, according to Duncan Hunter, for a base in San Diego.
Some of us have been screaming for the Democrats to go “balls to the wall” for over seven years now.
noriega taking donation from perry(swift boat Perry)
Great post, Jane. Thanks for reading NR so the rest of don’t have to. (Singles, by the way.)
Can the whole Kagan clan be frogmarched to the Hague too?
Want to talk balls to the wall? Have I got a deal for you. Impeachment!
Bad link on the Blackwater story I think [Mod: fixed]
Try http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/…..index.html
Balls to the wall! It’s now or never!
billjpa @ 7
Link?
Sorry for the OT – EPU’d at end of last thread:
johnSwifty @ 59 says:
A quick driveby off topic, but on the topic of personnel changes: I just heard on Air America that my congress man in Minnesota, Jim Ramstad (a craven and inveterate Bush supporter), will be retiring at the end of his term. This actually opens the door for some real voter activism in a region that has had nothing but conservative representation for some time. I couldn’t be more excited!
********
Kathie says:
Oh, Yay Yay Yaaaay!!!! I am in his district, and didn’t know how we would get rid of him! You can bet *I* will be active in this! We turned Minnetonka and Eden Prairie Blue for the first time 3 years ago with our state representative! She won by only 70 votes in 2004, by over 700 votes in 2006. There is indeed hope in the world . . .
Now back to regularly scheduled programming . . .
Great question Jane! I think Gromit@4 pretty much sums it up.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 13
http://www.star-telegram.com/s…..33516.html
I don’t think the GOP wants to bring back the draft. That’s a lot of eighteen year old voters to lose. Just ask the Richard Nixon crowd.
Leahy on CSPAN2 dissing Bush re: right for DC reps to vote. Wants to know why Bush approves of democracy in Iraq but not in DC.
CSPAN2
one of Greenwald major points awhile back was that the American political spectrum has changed radically from what it used to be…one way to look at it is as the Neo-con, war party vs. everyone else.
Obviously everyone on here knows what a disaster neo-con policies have been, but who is thinking about what to do if the beloved (D) party nominates someone with a host of neo-con advisors, spouting neo-con talking points, approved of by neo-con pundits, like the loathsome Kagan clan?
Seriously, what to do?
Cry, ‘more and better Democrats’ and wait ’till 2012 or 2016?
There is no need to give our troops more time away from the battlefield, Kagan types. Besides, doing that would be too administratively difficult (”this amendment would actually require the Army and Marine Corps staffs to keep track of how long every individual servicemember had spent in either Iraq or Afghanistan, how long they had been at home, how long the unit that they were now in had spent deployed, and how long it had been home”).
In case Fred hasn’t heard, they got some fancy new machines in the city that can keep track of stuff like that without you even having to do anything.
I think the city folk calls ‘em computers.
Someone on CSpan mentioned Liddy Dole may be convinced to vote in favor of Webb’s bill – I will be calling her office q day & asking for her support.
Here’s a spot of good news from TPM re: 3 possible GOP supporters:
and maybe two more.
Thanks for another great post, Jane.
LS @ 16
The Noriega camp called the matter an attempt to distract voters from more meaningful issues. Spokesman James Aldrete made no apologies for the Perry donations and noted that seven of the nine House Democrats from Houston have accepted money from the financier, who is among the most generous contributors to Republican causes around the country.
That’s just fucking great. I want my donation back.
If the Democrats really do have 57 votes in the Senate
I think it’s 67, no?
Edit: Scratch that, that would be to over ride a veto ; )
The sheer unmitigitated gall of these people is astounding. I have included this latest slap to our military in emails to my congresscritters. I hope all who read this post do the same. It is well past time for this BS to end.
On the subject of keeping records of how long all service people have been in Iraq, I don’t see much of a problem. Their records have been computerized for years. If they don’t contain their orders for going overseas, then they should.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 17
There will be no draft since Bush made it unsafe for the Bush family to hide in the National Guard.
Cozumel @ 24
60 votes needed for cloture in order to have an up and down vote to send the bill to Bush. 67 needed to over-ride the presumed veto
Jane, I’m afraid I’ve been distracted by family issues (elderly father-in-law) and have only been swimming in the Lake in short visits lately, but…
FINALLY!!! You and the folks at Moveon and a few others are doing the heavy lifting, from a rhetorical, messaging perspective. And we’re gaining traction, despite the wimps and weenies that lead the Dem party. Finally. Tough messages that resonate–and they’ll stick. (I loved the ratings that showed that even on Faux News, more people watched Jack Reed’s response last week that watched Shrub…)
Betrayal, betrayal, and betrayal again, lather, rinse, and repeat again. And I love the tactical trap that those creatures have finally constructed for themselves–”if only the troops would win, then they could come home…they just must not to win enough” It’s beyond pathetic from those armchair warriors.
Pivot and shoot. (And continue to take care of yourself…)
Cujo359 @ 26
By 67 the rotation system was in full effect in Vietnam and we had over 500,000 troops. They managed to keep track of it then.
LS @ 16
Ahhhh. Lahoma. She said something to the effect of “time will instruct us on this man”, the other day. This woman is so sharp.
OT:
Why is Fox News Channel getting to cover the Democratic Convention?
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/wa…..-bail.html
They have to provide the pool cameras? So what kind of coverage do you think those pool cameras will provide? Guess….
The quote:
Link to Dole’s phones: http://dole.senate.gov/
dakine01 @ 28
Gotcha. I edited my comment to reflect that ; )
Bush has essentially said the troops are hostages. There’s no military reasoning behind his position, it’s all about his petty ego. Bush’s new slogan isn’t about any objectives or strategy, it’s simply “return on success.”
This is the worst kind of dictatorial abuse of those who will fight for their country possible. We might as well rename our military the American Foreign Legion.
AND
the democrats have to point;
THE TREOOPS WON BUSH’S WAR
they performed efficiently, they COMPLETED their task, they over threw saddam, AND they insured there were no wmd’s
this president then CHANGED THEIR TASK
NOW LOOK!
our armed forces are NOT the Iraqi police, they are NOT escorts, they are NOT politicians, they are NOT a political arm of this president
THEY ARE NOT PAINTERS OF SCHOOLS
THEY ARE NOT JUDGES OR ADJUDICATORS
THEY ARE NOT “DECIDERS”
they have COMPLETED their military task AND IT’S TIME TO REWARD THEM AND BRING HOME
and THAT is how the democrats need to respond to this “they can come home when they win the war” bull crap
Going “balls to the wall” presumes that there are balls to begin with. We’ll see.
As one who has been repeatedly disappointed by leaders of the so-called Democratic party, I’ll believe it when I hear it and see it.
dakine01 @ 28
all the democrats need to have is a simple majority because all the should give the president is a budget that gets the troops home
and that is it
if he wants to veto, LET HIM
then send THE SAME BUDGET BACK
I do NOT want to hear “we need to have a veto proof majority” because that is BULL
Larry Johnson has a great new post about Blackwater. Surprise, surprise!
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2…../#more-852
DO NOT let Fox provide the pool cameras — you’ll be very sorry.
Back to Topic A: the best thing about the Kleiman strategy is that it’s built for the inevitable veto. When it comes, and Bush says Democrats won’t fund the troops, the Democrats say, hey we passed the bill, asshat. You’re the one who’s blocking it. Then Bush says parts of it are unacceptable. And the Democrats say, oh, you mean the parts that let you destroy the army by exhausting the troops? Yeah, we have a problem with that…
Things need to be said Democrats. And not just in the year run-up to the general election
As HItler is alleged to have said in the Bunker during the last days, the Germans deserved to lose the war because they didn’t try hard enough, and had proved themselves unworthy of survival. It’s pretty much Kagan’s logic. What chickenshit assholes!
Cujo359 @ 26
They can’t retain those records. That would be an invasion of privacy.
/GOP-speak
Real, live GOP filibuster of a troop respite bill? Smells like Democratic victory in November 2008 to me!
No more backroom 60-vote shutdowns, Harry Reid. Make Mitch McConnell’s Mutants read the phone book, the Senate Dining Room menu, and the DC Madam phonebills into the Congressional record. A GOP filibuster to protect our brave troops from time at home with their families and their units to re-equip and re-train: that’s the ticket!
Put the Mutants on the record. What say you, GOP Senators Collins, Coleman, Dole, Smith, Warner, Hagel, Cornyn, Graham, McConnell? Ready to withstand the wrath of the military families in your homestates, whether running for re-election yourself or hoping to pass the baton to another GOP in your retirement?
JF @ 43
What are you talking about. All military record are kept. I obtained all mine 2 years ago.
KathieinMN @ 14
Orange Overlord calls this one A Big Retirement
raven @ 23
I gave money to this dude because of the encouragement here on FDL. No one is even going to discuss it? WTF
I’m suffering from a bit of a disconnect here. Donald Kagan was easily my favorite history professor in college. He taught an ancient Greek history course at Yale that was wildly popular because he was such a captivating story teller. I didn’t detect his conservative leanings then. I’m wondering now if he’s evolved into more of an obvious monster over time, or if, at nineteen, I just had no idea of what was going on all around me (probably a better guess).
Mike @ 20
Come on, Mike. Keeping track of messy details like this would, you know, just be so HARD. Besides, it might put human faces on the statistics, and we can’t have that.
The baldness of this excuse is breath-taking. Thanks for calling him on it.
Noriega should have brought this swift-boat business up when he was here the other day. If he did, I missed it.
raven @ 47
Trust me, it’s gonna get commented on. I’m not saying anything cause I haven’t got anything that I could possibly add to this at this point.
raven @ 47
Isn’t it a positive thing to get his money to work for Dems rather than funding more swift boat attacks? Even if it isn’t for the (non-existant) perfect Dem, just about any Dem is better than Box Turtle.
My $.02
“I gave money to this dude because of the encouragement here on FDL. No one is even going to discuss it? WTF”
I’ll discuss it. I’m pissed as can be.
scribe @ 32
Cancel it all. Buy network time for selected speeches. No coverage is better than FOX-pool coverage. Seriously, this will be a disaster. Dr Dean to the white courtesy phone, please…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 50
My understanding is that he took some contributions from Perry then voted against Perry’s wishes anyway. That pretty much works for me.
dakine01 @ 52
I can’t even believe you said that.
raven @ 47
In his first visit here, I asked him about the Texas super highway…he skirted it and said they need a new highway from the coast near Mexico, because of 2 new ports in Mexico opening up. That pissed me off right then. Last time he was here, I asked him again about the ports in Mexico and the fact that US longshoremen would lose jobs; plus, who would be monitoring security for say, radioactive materials in the cargo (which if missed, would be trucked into the US!!)….he answered with a short and curt answer that he didn’t know anything about the security in the Mexican ports. That floored me. Coupled with the blogger remarks, and the Perry donation….Nah.
“If the Democrats really do have 57 votes in the Senate for the Webb Amendment there is absolutely no reason not to go balls to the wall as Digby says and implement the Kleiman strategy. Make the Republicans get up over and over again and denounce the troops as losers and tell us how they can’t come home until they win.”
I agree and I love the strategy. I also think there should be a way to put massive tax increases on the rich and on corprations on the table. It’s their war, let them pay for it.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 6
That would require, well, balls.
Mike @ 20
So, let me see know. Aren’t they keeping track of them now. If not then if someone goes awol they don’t know about?
Excellent, excellent frame Jane! And an excellent post as well.
SaltinWound @ 48
See him on CSPAN Book TV. He’s a real a*shole. Fred Kagan and all his kin should be on the front lines (if there were such a thing) in this fiasco of an occupation. Whatever – they should be patrolling and busting down doors house to house with the rest of our troops.
jim oconnor @ 58
Amen!
The military already keeps track of all that stuff. They maintain a service record for each soldier. They have these amazing machines, I think they call them “computers”.
dakine01 @ 55
No comment. ;0)
Bush and Kagan remind me of a bully holding a kid’s hand and punching him in the face, while the bully says, “Why do you keep punching yourself in the face? You must like it, because you keep doing it!”
Except what Bush/Kagan are saying to the troops is: “Why do you keep making yourselves stay in Iraq? What are you, a bunch of *LOSERS*?”
Fred Kagan is a big ole, jelly roll, daddy’s boy, moron.
dakine01 @ 55
Yea, you are right. What am I thinking? None of this has anything to do with maybe the morality of the issue. The Swiftboat Vets for Truth are the worst scumbag motherfuckers that there are any ANYONE who supports them is a scumbag motherfucker as well.
raven @ 47
I was gonna say to you, don’t believe anything you hear and only half of what you see…but thought that might be a little harsh on you. :)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 17
Nixon won the election. I remember feeling great hope that McGovern, with the help of newly-enfranchised voters, would win. Studies have shown that 18 year olds vote pretty much the same way their parents vote. I don’t think a draft makes a difference in that.
Having said all that, I am in favor of a draft. It’s a close call for me. Basically, when we had that Iraqi pediatrician here for a chat, she convinced me that we are getting too many misfits in the military, and that therefore, we need a more representative way of recruiting.
Bush and his poppy.
Kristol and his poppy.
Kagan and his poppy.
No wonder they’re all screwed up.
kdh22 @ 69
You are right, shit Howie gave money to John Barrow.
LS @ 67
He’s got a Karl Rove or Jonah Goldberg type of visage.
scribe @ 32
I can guarantee when all is said and done it won’t be Faux.
BigMitch @ 70
the draft WILL make a differance among parents, the will do whatever it takes to keep their kids home…that means they will vote for the candidate most likely to end the war before their kid puts on a uniform
LS @ 67
and a dweeb
LS @ 71
too much time in the poppy fields?
LS @ 71
How come they got a name for Mommy love problems – Oedipus Complex – and none for Daddy? Am I wrong?
perris @ 75
Hear! Hear! Me and mine will be so far gone so fast, no one will remember us!
perris @ 75
And the 18-30 crowd might start protesting and voting differently as well.
Thi9s should cheer you up:
Atlanta, GA 9/17/2007 8:00 PM GMT (FINDITT)
John David R. Atchison, a federal prosecutor from Florida, was held in custody Monday after he appeared in U.S. District Court in Detroit on a charge that he flew to Detroit intending to have sex with a 5-year-old girl.
Atchison, an assistant U.S. Attorney in Florida’s northern district, is expected to appear again in court for a detention hearing on Tuesday.
He was caught in an Internet child sex sting run by the Macomb County Sheriff’s Department and the FBI and arrested Sunday when he flew into Detroit Metropolitan Airport from Pensacola, Fla.
Atchison is charged with using interstate communication to entice a minor to have sexual contact, a federal charge that carries a 10-year minimum prison sentence upon conviction. He is also charged with traveling across state lines with the intent of engaging in illicit sexual contact, an offense that carries a maximum sentence of 30 years.
A sheriff’s deputy posed as a mother who was interested in finding someone to have sex with her children, in a sting that has already netted a California paramedic and numerous other alleged pedophiles from around the country.
According to the complaint, Atchison reassured the sheriff’s deputy who was posing as the child’s mother that he would not hurt the 5-year-old because he goes “slow and easy,” and “I’ve done it plenty.”
News of Atchison’s arrest is “a shellshock” in Gulf Breeze, where Atchison was the president of a local youth recreation board and had been involved in coaching soccer, baseball and other sports.
Atchison is married with children and has lived in the community about 20 years.
Officials at the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Tallahassee, where the northern district of Florida is headquartered, and in Pensacola, where Atchison works, could not immediately be reached for commen
perris @ 75
well then it is another reason for the draft.
The reason Nixon was in favor of getting rid of the draft, some argue, was to capture the 18 year old vote. And at this time recall we were deep in ‘Nam. And we had a draft in place. I outta know, I was drafted just prior to me 18th, b’day. And as far as Nixon and the elimination of the draft is concerned, it’s the ‘motive’ that concerns me.
raven @ 81
Lemme guess ….. is he a repub?
raven @ 81
I saw that @ Rawstory and just shook my head! What a fucking pervert! Wonder if he’s Federalist Society???
Frankly our 30 year experiment with a standing volunteer army needs to come to an end. It’s been very poisonous to our society by creating a separate warrior culture, spending way too much on a military machine that far exceeds what’s needed, and making it too easy for presidents to engage in military conflict without Senate approval.
Short of literally defending our borders, we should have no standing military capacity until the situation calls for it. Then a draft can be instituted and our country can, as a whole, make the decision to go to war. A giant standing army is a legacy of the Cold War, and it’s draining the life out of our economy.
BigMitch @ 70
No draft ! I have a grandson who will be 18 in November and there is no way he is going to become one of Glorious Leader’s toys to play with. The family has already decided that we will send him away. Imagine giving that idiot more people to send into the meat grinder. No thanks!
From an article called Fuck the Draft on my blog:
Now, as Charlie Rangel argues, we may need to institute a draft to protect us from American fascism. He’s got a point there.
TexBetsy @ 84
Wild ass guess. Pensacola ain’t exactly Berkely.
raven @ 81
Perverts. Goddess, what is wrong with all of these people!!!!!
Some argue, persuasivly, that bringing the draft back would stop most, if not all, wars of choice. A draft without loopholes would seem to make the blood sacrifice of war more fair.
BigMitch @ 88
I now worry that it would only encourage escalation but I used to think it would quickly end the war. I just don’t trust BushCo.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 13
the Agonist
My nephew is already serving and I’ve got a nearly 16 yr old right behind him and a 13 yr old right behind her. I’d much rather the younger two “choose” a different career. I want that to be their choice.
Twain @ 87
Stay on it and get them some passports now, if you haven’t already.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 83
It wasn’t so much to capture the 18 y/o vote as to take away from the counterculture the one central organizing core of the counterculture – opposition to the draft. I recall the intellectual basis for the 18 y/o vote being “at 18 you can get drafted and killed for your country, but you can’t vote for the guys who send you.”
Everything else revolved around the fact of the draft. Once that was gone, the rest of the 60s pretty much collapsed. Most people put the end of the 60s in 1973 – about a year after the 18 y/o vote and about the same time as the draft ended.
We could wind up debating chickens and eggs ’til the cows come home, but I think that without the draft to organize around, the counterculture was bound to fall apart.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 83
OK, just curious. How’d you get drafted before you were 18 when the draft age was 18? I joined on my 17th birthday so I was sort of familiar with the process.
I don’t expect candidates I support to be supported only by people I agree with. I don’t expect candidates I support to turn down money from people I disagree with. I don’t expect candidates I support to rely solely on money from “pure” sources.
People like Bob Perry support candidates all over the ideological map, for access and influence. Perry’s support of Noriega is a good sign — he’s not putting all his eggs in the Cornyn basket. The smart but right-leaning Texas money wants some access to the guy they think might be their next Senator. But I don’t think Perry’s contribution buys him Rick Noriega.
Alternatively, Mrs. Noriega is a Houston City Councilwoman, iirc. Bob Perry’s business may have business in front of her, and therefore he might be banned from supporting her directly. A check her husband’s way may be an attempt to show her that he — Perry — is supportive of their family’s goals.
Neither of the Noriegas strike me as people apt to be influenced by contributions someone like Bob Perry, but I don’t buy the Watts’ campaign’s argument that accepting these contributions amounts to a breach of faith with Democrats who supported John Kerry.
Badwater @ 27
With this group of thugs, they’ll probably put an income or net worth CAP on draftable people… children of klepto-plutocrats registered as rethugs are automatically exempted… too important to the country or something… after all, somebody needs to give the orders.
raven @ 96
Changes if you graduate HS before 18th birthday.
I don’t think a draft will happen because I don’t think society is prepared to face the gender issues. Right now, eighteen year-old boys have to register and girls don’t. It doesn’t cause much of an uproar because they just have to register, they don’t have to go. If it were an actual draft, people would have to confront the fact it’s unfair to just send boys, but there’s not the will to send girls.
TexBetsy @ 94
Not many people WANT their kids to end up in this mess. That is a pretty good argument for universal service. Maybe people will get off their dead asses and participate if they actually have a stake.
Blub @ 99
Like Mitt Romney’s kids.
puppethead @ 86
Training time dictates the need for a standing army. If we could forecast the need 12-18 months in advance, then ok to draft on need, but the weaponry is too complex to ” run ‘em through a quick course” Better plan- draft, train for a year, then discharge into a real reserve.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 10
That’s is exactly my sentiment and the bottom line to all the commentary in this and the previous post. Now NO NOW.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 91
Before I’ll even utter one syllable in favor of mandatory service, the US would have to get out and stay out, militarily, of other countries.
I am very much in favor of some kind of mandatory service to one’s country, but not in these times and with these lunatics driving. NO. FUCKING. WAY!
LS @ 57
I just saw this..as a financial supporter also and with a limited political budget, I would like some answers. Rick needs to be invited to come back to answer some questions. The Mexican port issue is very troubling because it along with Mexican trucking is designed to gut union jobs in the US.
TeddySanFran @ 98
That’s great.
SaltinWound @ 101
Good! The draft imposes yet another obstacle to war.
Twain @ 87
I’m with you Twain. I have a 20 year old son thank you very much.
raven @ 102
Politically, its a disasterous issue. If the dem who gets elected imposes a draft (mandatory service or whatever you want to label it) he or she will be toast. Four years and out – three downs and punt.
raven @ 97
I got my notice just prior to my eighteenth b’day. I was riding the bus at 4:00 am from the Sacramento Greyhound bus station to the inductee center in Oakland a month later. With most of the rest of my high school buddies. Some of these guys didn’t return from ‘Nam. I can’t hardly talk about it.
hackworth @ 103
’sides, they’ll all have doctors letters… I think TPM or somebody had a link to a youtube video with footage from the young rethug’s conference a few months ago, where, when asked whether they plan to put their money where their mouths are and enlist, a fair proportion of young rethugs said that they have medical problems that would preclude them from serving.
puppethead @ 35 – yes, exactly. They are HOSTAGES to this insane man who will only bring them home if they “succeed” but won’t define what that “Success” is.
Mr. L and I were discussing this the morning after Chimpy’s speech. In our household, they are now referred to as the “hostages in Iraq” instead of the troops in Iraq.
Support them my ass. This makes my blood boil.
Like someone said in the ‘comments’ a couple of
days ago, “I am so tired of war.”
It is the US Armed Forces that are doing the work. Let the US Armed Forces openly, publicly
and honestly have their say. Yes they ’serve’,
and they do it admirably. But what is it they serve? It is certainly NOT politicians.
I haven’t gotten to reading the comments yet; I was too appalled at the above comment, which I think is unconscionable. If that cold blooded comment, which obviously is totally unsupportive of the troops and basically blames them outright for where we are in Iraq, isn’t used in a campaign ad as a perfect example of how Repugs really feel about our troops, then the Dems might as well fold their tents and go home.
Another thing, since when doesn’t the army keep the very kind of records that Kagan cited? You mean to say, the army doesn’t know “how long every individual servicemember had spent in either Iraq or Afghanistan, how long they had been at home, how long the unit that they were now in had spent deployed, and how long it had been home?” How utterly stupid! Has Kagan ever even been in the service? As so often happens, the guy would have looked a lot smarter if he’d kept his mouth shut!
It won’t be the r’s who bring back the draft
It will be HRC and the d’s. Does that make us all feel better (bitter)?
How far is the Webb Bill along? It’s a great idea that needs a majority to pass. If the Repubs mean to talk it to death let them try. We can worry about cloture then. That’s been the problem with the Dems. They want an assured vote before they go out on what they see as a limb. Let’s get it on as soon as possible and see who talks about what. What’s holding it up?
perris @ 36
This is a well struck nail-head and resounds with facts. However, consider replacing “War” with Nürenberg trigering criminal attack upon Iraq and “Occupation” with Genicidal Occupation making US citizens open to crimes against humanity.
It is past time for Nancy “peace in our time” Pelosi to re-table the constitution for craps sake.
I’m for universal public service, a component of which could be two or three years of military service. Conscientious objection should be treated fairly liberally. Exercise, healthy diets and free post-secondary education would be a major aspect of my version of public service. Switzerland, Israel and other countries have universal service because they are small and feel it necessary to rapidly mobilize a large force per capita. We need to return to being a country where public service is approached from a level beyond and above partisanship. Probably won’t happen, though.
David W. Bartoo @ 117
Charlie Rangall seems to be the only one talking about it favorably, and he is a D.
David W. Bartoo @ 117
If she wants eight years and not four she’ll avoid it like the plague – like Dubya has. Cheetoh munchers do not want to be drafted. Ask Jonah Goldberg.
stratocruiser @ 104
Hogwash. We chose when to enter WWII, and we trained our forces before deploying. We spent over 18 months building up the military force to invade Iraq. I think with the exception of Korea, where we basically used the WWII troops, just about every war up through Vietnam was engaged by raising the army as the first step to going to war.
And as I said, we could keep enough of a force to literally protect our borders. But our current volunteer army encourages military adventurism.
Ed Kunin @ 118
my impression was they could get 60 votes.
but not the 67 needed to overturn a veto,
but let’s make him VETO the Webb Amendment.
TexBetsy @ 100
Correct. I was seventeen when I graduated from H.S. in Sacramento in June, 1965.
Steve-AR @ 107
Didn’t the congress cut the funding for the Mexican truckers/super highway recently?
I think there’s something further underlying “return on success:” the fact that the definition of “success” lies, as it always did, in the vaguely-defined imaginings of Bush and his warmongering cronies. When have they told us, when have they told anybody what their definition of “success” entails? Until they do, “return on success” can only be read to mean one thing: “return when you have served the interests of this administration.” Not the Iraqi people. Not the American people. Not Congress. The Bush administration, and nobody else.
“Return on success” is a pure admission that, in the eyes of this administration, the troops are their pawns.
Bush has kidnapped the troops and extraordinarily rendered them to Iraq, where they are being held hostage for eternal resource wars, and those who have died while in his custody, have been deployed for eternity.
BigMitch @ 121
Rangel is the one who proposed the bill to draw attention to the problem but he also voted against it.
LS @ 128
That’s good. I’m writing that one down, LS
We were lied to about the reasons for being in Vietnam. The same holds true for Iraq. Bring our soldiers home now!
e>
Oklahoma kiddo @ 112
I came home through Oakland.
Return on success =
If you don’t win little W.’s war for him, you can rot in Iraq forever.
Return on success =
Every Troop Left Behind – in Iraq
Return on success =
If at first you don’t succeed, fry, fry in Iraq again and again and again.
Blub @ 5
I am glad, hope BW gets disbanded. Don’t wanna know what kind of people those mercenaries are. From AP:
“Many of the contractors have been accused of indiscriminately firing at American and Iraqi troops, and of shooting to death an unknown number of Iraqi citizens who got too close to their heavily armed convoys, but none has faced charges or prosecution.”
dakine01 @ 129
Thank you for that correction/information.
SaltinWound @ 101
I have 8 and 11 year old boys, and I’m worried about them ending up in Iraq (or Iran). This “war” needs to be shut down now.
We have a draft. A ‘backdoor draft’. The Republicans know it AND so do the Democrats.
EvilDrPuma @ 127
Dubya’s definition of success for our troops can only mean to kill and displace (or be killed) more Iraqi’s while the clock runs out on his presiduncy.
Dubya is willing to accept the deaths of a couple thousand more Americans. That will mean that ten times that number of Iraqi’s will be killed and many thousands more will be displaced.
BigMitch @ 121
Charlie’s position is that kids from less than fortunate environments are recruited more heavily and, because of their financial situations, find it difficult to say no to $$ that would help their families.
That would be all well and good if the service of these less-than-fortunates was for good cause. Obviously, this invasion and occupation has been a death sentence to a lot of these kids.
marymccurnin @ 126
Yes..but if he does support the idea of the Mexican ports, that bothers me. The whole port/ trucking thing seems to be a way to bypass the US West Coast ports and transportation; screw the Teamsters and US truckers and drive down US wages.
TexBetsy @ 100
Respectfully, no it doesn’t. The draft age is 18
ATTENTION, UNDOCUMENTED MALES
& IMMIGRANT SERVICING GROUPS!
If you are a man ages 18 through 25 and living in the U.S., then you must register with Selective Service. It’s the law.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 137
I presume you are refering to forced downturn in the economy so that young men and women are pushed towards the recruiters with their inducements to join.
I have heard (but don’t know if it is true) that the military is pretty representative of the socio-economic status of America writ large. Does anyone know if this is true or not?
raven @ 132
Home to where? In Cali?
kdh22 @ 139
A twenty thousand dollar bonus is enticement enough. The price of cannon fodder
hackworth @ 138
So, why does Congress seem to be satisfied with that definition of success? Most of the public has (finally!) gotten the idea through their thick heads that this war serves no worthwhile purpose, and many have (finally!) figured out that it never did.
Jane, I thoroughly approve of your strategy. Every single time one of those Repug fools opens their mouth with this trash talk, a Dem should follow behind him and tell the public what he’s really saying. Loudly. No exceptions. No excuses.
Steve-AR @ 140
Won’t it bypass TX and LA also?
Arnie @ 119
all I can say is;
wow
I am usually the person to point out how to frame a discussion and if I didn’t know you wrote that response to my post I would have thought I wrote it myself
WELL DONE
Ed*ard Teller @ 120
ET – if you were in charge of the program, i’d be willing to consider it…. but with people like the bushes and the clintons? NO FUCKING WAY! it’s slave labor and i will fight against it.
Darth Giuliani strikes again. I don’t imagine he’ll raise a dollar from our troops, after this diss. But the Repug Freedom Vets organization should also condemn this remark. I feel that the only uniform that Giuliani is confortable with is a dress.
Once again, Bush as “The Punisher”.
I can just see him in a nun’s habit with pursed lips and a steel ruler in his hands.
BigMitch @ 142
I am talking about calling back into military action those reservists who have been discharged for years.
This is somewhat O/T but since there is a you-tube of Rudy at the top of the page:
By show of hands, how many people think Rudy will be a formidable opponent if he gets the nomination?
I don’t know, but I would guess not.
So let get this straight. its ok to take money from lying bastards as long as the recipient of the money does what we want him or her to do. I see, so I guess that if a thousand of us poor folks scrape up 10.00 each and donate this budle, we are gonna have the same access to the recipient as the dude or dudess that hands over 10,000.00?
All I can say to this is-Stop!
What the hell are we fighting for? I can’t go on.
Too angry!
itwasntme @ 151
I’m pretty well fed up with this stupid, insipid bully who thinks other people should suffer for his incompetence and belligerence.
Ann in AZ @ 146
We need lots of Democrats calling out the GOPs, since the GOP voices are so much more appealing to TradMed. There needs to be a more concerted pushback. It’s discouraging to see our PrezCandis not operating together on these pushbacks, and it’s humiliating when the Senate Democrats act so independently, all over the map.
More unity of purpose, please, DeeCee Dems!
marymccurnin @ 147
They’ve proposed to develop a new Mexican mega-port at Punta Colonet, south of Ensenada. If those states don’t want the highway for cultural/racial supremacy reasons, we Californians will be happy to take it, I’m sure. ’sides, I’m not really too keen to be in the same country these days. They can keep shrub. We’ll take the highway.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 152
Ah so. There is something to the point that they should have read the fine print.
A young man, 18, that I know, recently enlisted. He has apparently just finished boot camp as we speak. He was told that he would not, no way, nada, be deployed to Iraq. Then, he showed up with the 60 pages or whatever, of paperwork they made him sign. When it was pointed out to him that it did not say anywhere in the paperwork that he would not be deployed to Iraq, he said, no, but they told me; they promised me. Now he wants out, but it is too late. He went for the $ and believed them. They just lure ‘em, lie to them, and kidnap ‘em.
Blub @ 113
Yes, that head up the arse presents significant medical problems.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 137
Diane Benson’s son served a tour in Afghanistan and a tour in Iraq as an airborne trooper in the 101st. He was supposed to get out at the end of his enlistment in August, 2005. They kept him in under “Stop-Loss,” and sent him back to Iraq in October, 2005. In November, he lost both legs near Baghdad. Here he is marching in the 2006 July 4th parade in Anchorage, with his wife and Diane.
Diane Benson, who is again challenging Don Young, held a press conference in Anchorage this morning, calling upon the House Ethics Committee to open an investigation of Don Young’s Coconut Road earmark insertions.
Recruiters are getting to be press gangs
We need Bobby Kennedy.
Elliott @ 162
NCLB pretty much gives military recruiters carte blanche to resort to the sleaziest possible tactics in a very sleazy business.
Ed*ard Teller @ 161
This is a MAN.
BigMitch @ 153
I’m not sure. I know local conservatives here in Texas idolize him. They have no clue about him other than they associate his name with 9/11.
EvilDrPuma @ 164
it’s FRAUD!
Elliott @ 167
We are in agreement, sir.
Habeus corpus comes up this week.
LS @ 159
That’s sorely typical of the whole military operation. You’re kept in the dark until you’re given your orders. Protesting those ordrers is a lot harder than the UCMJ makes sound too. Because there are a lot of unspoken rules. Like if you protest an illegal order, you’ll still be locked up. The only way you get out of it is if someone higher up agrees with you. Even then , you’re still stuck with a nice black mark on your record. Catch-22 anyone?
EvilDrPuma @ 164
yep.. a number of school administrators were threatened with legal sanctions here when they tried to block recruiters from showing up. ’sides, NCLB makes school so boring and mindless for kids that they might just want to get away through enlistment.. only half kidding here.
I am inspired. We are going to watch “Born on the Fourth of July” again tonight.
LS — precisely what scares me.
ET — tell us more about the presser. Was it well attended?
Just heard Chee-knee blasting moveon.org about the Petraeus ad, which raises two points:
1. Where the eff was he during the Swiftboating of John Kerry and Max Cleland, among others?
2. Anybody got the tape of Chee-knee’s close personal buddy Limp-balls calling Petrayus Betrayus?
LS @ 159
A Marine recruiter came to my grandson’s school and ended up yelling at my grandson because he wouldn’t sign up – called him a pussy. My grandson was 14 at the time !!!!
EDP says:
So, why does Congress seem to be satisfied with that definition of success? Most of the public has (finally!) gotten the idea through their thick heads that this war serves no worthwhile purpose, and many have (finally!) figured out that it never did.
Because its easier for them. The media with the WH has spun a nearly impenetrable web of lies.
The Edwards/Cheney VP debate stands as a good example. Edwards was exhausted by his efforts to backtrack and correct Cheney’s BS before he could even address a legitimate question. By then, he was out of time. Cheney kicked his ass with lies. Dems are afraid of the media and many (Bill Nelson, for example) have steadily perpetuated the lies themselves. Nelson would have to admit that he was lying.
BigMitch @ 158
I’m guessing the service environment waaaay back when these men and women signed on the dotted line was just a tad different??!!
However, Mitch, you’re right. It’s a contract and the gov’t/military will not excuse them from it.
Been a reader here for 3 or more years. Lots of smart writers/commentors. Thank you all.
My thing is this: Born of a British soldier who came upon a Female in the Luftwaffe in 1945.
A few drinks and a couple of unplanned kids later, the decision was made to move back to the territory of the ‘winning’ side. Besides, a lot less rubble over there.
My Point is this: History is passed on, by what means? I don’t know. I do know that all
those who return will eternally remember and will be affected. As will those in Iraq.
This, In my opinion, is something to think about.
LS @ 159
The neo-shanghaied.
This is a brilliant way to frame the debate — sadly that almost guarantees the Democrats won’t do it.
EvilDrPuma @ 164
And, because of NCLB, a parent cannot restrict military recruiters solely. All recruiters, including college and university recruiters, are prohibited from recruiting. Nice, huh?
itwasntme @ 151
Don’t think it hasn’t happened.
aliasofwestgate @ 170
As I understand it, you’re legally bound not to obey an illegal order, even if that means invoking sanctions on yourself, but that relates only to the order itself… you cannot argue that you don’t have to serve because you believe that the war itself is illegal. I would still argue, no matter how craven the reasons for a draft might be, you’re duty-bound as an American to go, if called. I hate this war, and I would not want to be in the military, but if there is a draft, and I’m called, I’ll do my duty. Anything else would be traitorous, IMO… ‘course most rethugs may be counted on to behave traitorously. ‘course, once you’re drafted, you can always get yourself court-martialed for whatever act of defiance you might care to attempt, if that’s what you’re inclined to do… In any case, I have no intention of running to Canada if this thing happens.
Constitution Day gets little notice
BigMitch @ 173
Channel 2 and 11. Steve McDonald asked a lot of questions. She’s at APRN, Channel 2 and one other place I can’t remember, getting interviews on this as I write. Considering the ADN has their entire staff, probably including the cafeteria crew, at the Pete Kott trial, it went well. She really boned up on the issue over the past few days so that she is quite knowledgeable about that whole set of issues. More later.
Elliott @ 184
Par for this course.
Nixon ended the draft because he thought all-volunteer wouldn’t bring protests. The protests for this war have, indeed, been small and not as loud at the 70’s Nam protests, so that worked in it’s own way.
But now that people are bringing out the fact that Bush is essentially “blaming the troops” for any loss, my money is on more and larger protests.
EvilDrPuma @ 186
I would be furious if Bush dared to mention it.
sporkovat @ 19
Well, do you remember Democrat Scoop Jackson?
Um, no, I didn’t think you would. He was the Grandfather of the current generation of neo-cons (per Wiki), and a saint in the DLC pantheon:
Bob in HI
One eigth of the Powell doctrine was that the U.S. should never commit troops without a viable exit strategy.
Bush has now revealed his exit strategy:
So, a do-or-die exit strategy, no retreat, just like Hitler at Stalingrad. Not the strategy of a wise commander in chief.
EvilDrPuma @ 186
It’s certainly not an Eagle, that’s for sure!
Out of Iraq. No bombing of Iran. There is no wiggle room.
Shuster is laying out the whole war for oil thingy as a result of Greenspan’s comments in his book. This is a good thing. “Blood for Oil”
Hitler at Stalengrad is a great anology.
Is this the Bushie equivalent to “The beatings will continue until morale improves”?
It is transparent in the most brutal way imaginable that the Bushies do not regard soldiers as citizens that they must be mindful of.
This is OUR army. It belongs to you and me and everyone who pays taxes so that the military can protect us. Who are these people who think they can abuse OUR army this way?
And if they think they can do this to our troops, what attitude do they have for the rest of us?
itwasntme @ 187
I agree. The momentum is building that way.
A big reason why its taken so long is b/c there hasn’t been a draft. The 101st fighting keyboardists are only in it if they don’t have to go.
Bush is really f**king it up by blaming the troops.
bobschacht @ 189
Jackson was known for two things in particular. He was called “The Senator for Boing” (spelling?) because he brought home the bacon to the defense contractor in his district, Boing Aircraft. Second, the Jackson-Vanik Amendment which denied most favored nation status to the Soviet Union, in part based upon their restrictive immigration policies. Soviet Jews were literally dying to leave the Soviet Union, and so this piece of legislation was considered to be of utmost importance to activists in that arena. (I was one of them.)
Is there a good reason to sign up to serve under this CIC?
teddy at 54-”Cancel it all. Buy network time for selected speeches. No coverage is better than FOX-pool coverage. Seriously, this will be a disaster. Dr Dean to the white courtesy phone, please…”
can you imagine all of the unflattering camera angles they can come up with????????? oh my. this is not good.
Ed*ard Teller @ 161
Did you happen to catch the piece on NBC news last week where the “above the knee” Army amputee was teasing the “both legs below the knee” Marine for having a “paper cut”?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 198
*crickets*
portia.vz @ 195
I’m unclear whether the shrubbies even have a concept of “citizenship” in mind, as such.. citizenship rights are what you can extract or defend by force or by making copious campaign donations to the party. Everybody else is either a chump or a victim… or just canno fodder.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 198
Oh yeah..I think it was a really good reason to sign up on a petition to serve him articles of impeachment…yeah…makes sense to me.
Elliott @ 191
Well, the American Freedom Campaign has not forgotten, and I’ll bet we’ll soon be getting reminders from PFAW & ACLU soon. The American Freedom Campaign petition lists 10 points of Constitutional significance that they’re pushing.
Bob in HI
TeddySanFran @ 156
We need lots of Democrats calling out the GOPs, since the GOP voices are so much more appealing to TradMed. There needs to be a more concerted pushback. It’s discouraging to see our PrezCandis not operating together on these pushbacks, and it’s humiliating when the Senate Democrats act so independently, all over the map.
More unity of purpose, please, DeeCee Dems!
My premise is that they need three things:
party discipline
party loyalty
unity of purpose
They need strong doses of all three.
Blub @ 202
Agree wholeheartedly!
mulligatawny @ 134
The puppet government will not enforce the removal of Blackwater. Surely Blackwater should be kept over there so they are not nefarious here.
dmac @ 199
I cannot believe we have to go back to this AGAIN! However,if need be, we should take this on with a full blog press, imo.
TSF, Who should we contact, por favor?
One thing I find interesting in this Iraq business. There’s no one to ‘negotiate’ peace with.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 209
Excellent point – thanks for making it.
Blub @ 5
Yeah, Blackwater getting banned from Iraq
is not a good thing.
Maybe we need to organize and surveil these bastards…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 209
Perhaps the Pentagon can negotiate with State and CIA… .since those agencies are now backing rival combatent factions there.
Need a Job?
hackworth @ 78
Electra complex.
Blub @ 202
Entitlement by family bloodline is all Bush knows. Its his kind and the little people. He is the fortunate son – silver spoon in hand.
Perris @ 148
Use away, no copyright is in place
FYI, New post…
I wonder who will get the zed upstairs?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 209
I think they’re in the process of dividing Iraq up into thirds, which will make it three times harder to achieve the end of hostilities — welcome to Kurdistan.
Cliff Varnell @ 211
Remember that cautionary TV series Jericho last season? …the central premise was that a thinly veiled version of Blackwater (the writers called it Ravenwood) staged a coup with nukes, backing rethug-like thinktank types. I hate to say it, but maybe the show’s writers are onto something.. within 5 or 10 years time, a real risk, if things remain unchanged. This is idiocy… the founding fathers CLEARLY understood the threat posed by mercenaries, having just fought the Hessians and others. Are system is supposed to be set up to PREVENT the development of Blackwater-type forces. This whole thing is fundamentally anti-American.
BigMitch @ 218
Probably some first timer who just stumbled in.
puppethead @ 123
“Return on success”? Essentially equivalent in meaning and real intent to
Arbeit Macht Frei
billjpa @ 7
Link?
Only in the looney liberal mind could ‘punishment’ of troops equal sending them to accomplish their missions.
It is the ultimate putdown to treat real soldiers as helpless little children who can’t be away from home.
Webb needs to get over his personal problem with his son deciding to drop college and fight in Bushs’ war because it was worth winning while Daddy’s party spent their time bad mouthing the military..
Not quite off topic and forgive me if this has already been posted: This speech by Adam Kokesh at the march in Washington last weekend sends chills up my spine.
lindy at 226—–
http://www.star-telegram.com/s…..33516.html
here’s the link for noriega and perry money…….i wrote him a letter….
perhaps because they are the party that mocks service ..
and by the way Kerry did respond to the attacks but it made no difference they just kept going
Look at Bob Dole and he said crap after this as well
“And last week, former Sen. Bob Dole, the party’s 1996 presidential nominee, brought more attention to the allegations when he told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, “With three Purple Hearts, he never bled that I know of. And they’re all superficial wounds.”
Dole apologized for the remark the next day after a personal call from Kerry, saying that before taping the interview, “maybe I should have stayed longer for brunch somewhere.”
Donna Cain, an Oregon delegate, wore a purple heart bandage on her wrist.
“Probably a lot of people are handing them out because they are very symbolic,” she said. Kerry, she said, “has made the war that he served in far more important than his recent records of the last 18 to 20 years.”
Kerry’s campaign has denounced the allegations as a smear.
Other veterans and military records from the time have contradicted the swift boat group’s allegations.
Kerry’s campaign quickly responded to the purple heart bandages, saying the Republicans are “mocking our troops.”
“The smear continues on the floor of Madison Square Garden,” a Kerry campaign statement trumpeted.”
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOL…..le.hearts/
trumpets wtf does that mean CNN crap then crappier now
I just typed Caryle Group and Blackwater and this is what I FOUND.
Sorry if someone else beat me to it…I was researchin’ :))
Leo Strauss (father of neoconservatism) hated modernity and longed to go back to ancient times when countries waged war as an end in itself for honor, prestige and to give the nation a sense of purpose.
Strauss and his followers were not interested in setting up governments. They were for perpetual war. The regime change thing is just a cover — a “noble lie” for the masses, as Strauss would call it.
It’s Leo Strauss’ philosophy that he handed down to the neocons. War as an end in itself — for honor, prestige and to give the US a sense of purpose. But you have to lie to the people to cover that up — they can’t know it because they wouldn’t tolerate it.
Last week’s message was no benchmarks for Iraqis. This week’s message is big benchmarks for our children – “Win the un-winnable war and you can come home.”
GOP always blames the troops.
The GOP blames soldiers like John Kerry who got wounded 3 times and came home (rather than dying in the jungle like Rambo) for losing the Vietnam War. Max Cleland was a sissy before he was a traitor because he dived on the grenade instead of doing the near impossible Rambo trick to toss the grenade back at the attackers. Republicans will blame our troops for losing in Iraq instead of placing the blame squarely where it belongs:
ON THE LYING POLITICIANS!!!!
Elliott @ 124
Absolutely! Let them fillibuster a few weeks. See who says what. If the
AH vetoes, let him. See who upholds it. Surely the Dems can see this is the way to go.
OK, kiddies…Who can guess if Lil’ Freddie the Warmonger has ever served our country in uniform? Any guesses at all? Ya gotta think really, really hard, because you just know it’s a tough one to answer! Hmmmm…little Freddie putting his blood & skin on the line for America…might that have happened???
HA!!! Don’t be foolish. LITTLE FREDDIE’S A CERTIFIED CHICKENHAWK! Now that surprised the britches off your behinds, didn’t it? NOT.
What this really shows is the bloated sense of entitlement of the Conservative establishment: all blame where they can’t scapegoat the Democrats must be passed as far down the ladder as far as possible. How many buck privates were involved in the decision to disregard Gen. Shinseki’s recommendations and go with chickenhawk Adelman’s Cakewalk Scenario? It’s like a baseball team owner fielding only three players so he won’t have to charge as much for the luxury boxes; and then blaming the players for not being able to win shorthanded.
Holding our troops hostage should be a capital offense.
Bush, Kagan and all the neo-con nuts are telling our troops that they won’t be coming home, won’t be cut any slack, won’t be shown any mercy, unless they “win” in Iraq.
Even though, Bush and his crackpot neo-con pals have never really told us what “winning” in Iraq should look like. Shades of Vietnam.
Except we all know what “winning” Bush and his pals have in mind concerning Iraq…an oil law ceding control of Iraq’s vast oil resources over to crony oil company executives of the Bush administration. If BushCo gets this, and it’s enforceable, then the Iraq War that Bush preemptively started will have been “won.”
Until then, BushCo will let our soldiers rot over in Iraq, keeping a large number of them there.
I’ve figured this was the case for a long time. The huge military bases that BushCo has built inside Iraq aren’t just meant to be forward staging bases but are also meant to intimidate Iraqi leaders into giving up control over their oil resources.
BushCo is literally trying to blackmail their way to controlling Iraq’s oil. But then they are all just a bunch of criminals in the Bush administration, aren’t they?