… that the best male friend of our Secretary of State was on the Clinton Administration’s National Security Council and advised President Clinton and the National Security Adviser on Russia, the new Independent States, and the former Soviet Union.
… that the “liberal progressive” best female friend of our Secretary of State was a producer for Bill Moyers and a staff producer, director, and writer of current affairs programs and investigative documentaries at KQED in San Francisco.
… that the best male friend of our Secretary of State, the best female friend of our Secretary of State, and our Secretary of State purchased a Palo Alto, California, home together which now belongs solely to the two women.
… that our Secretary of State would say these wingnut-head-explosion-inducing words at the swearing-in of a subordinate last year:
Thank you. Thank you very much. I am truly honored and delighted to have the opportunity to swear in Mark Dybul as our next Global AIDS Coordinator. I am pleased to do that in the presence of Mark’s parents, Claire and Richard; his partner, Jason; and his mother-in-law, Marilyn. You have wonderful family to support you, Mark, and I know that’s always important to us. Welcome.”
… that the best male friend of our Secretary of State would bounce a quarter off her butt to prove how tight it is.
After she became secretary of state, she came to a party at Blacker’s house, kicked off her shoes, and began dancing through the night to rock and and roll. Blacker, who is gay, wanted to show his partner how tight her behind is; he postulated that if he aimed a quarter at her butt, it would bounce off like a rocket. He was right. Rice, who was dancing, didn’t realize what he had done until everyone began laughing hysterically. She was flattered — and proud.
… that the GOP, so very concerned not terribly long ago about America’s representation abroad by a proud gay American, James Hormel, would let our never-married, home-owning-with-another-single-female, best-friends-with-a-gay-Clinton-adviser, thigh-high-stilleto-boot-wearing Secretary of State represent American interests everywhere Dear Leader cannot be at the moment.
No One Could Have Anticipated…
Also! David E thinks perhaps the inherent juicy possibilities of the “Rice & Bean’s house” saga (none of which the Washington Post included in its obligatory staffer-author article by Glenn Kessler — who penned the new Rice bio — or even his WaPoO chatz) may be eclipsed by yet another tsunami about to break over GOP House Deputy Whip Patrick McHenry. One place to start learning about McHenry is the General’s letter to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell: Can Rep. McHenry’s Hostel for Strapping Young Republican Lads Survive This?
UPDATE: Howie Klein reports that Baby McHenry may have a Navy-hero Democratic opponent.
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Zed!
zed
congrats, CT!
and now:
Rice and Bean!
I’ve updated my blogpost with a link to Ann Althouse’s comment section.
They Hate me! They Really Hate Me!!!!
And I couldn’t be more delighted.
Thanx, Doc and Teddy!!!
Who’d a thunk?
Hi all!
(CT, would you kindly let the folks downstairs in Book Salon know that we are up here? No need for everyone to abandon that chat, of course)
TeddySanFran @ 7
CT already did.
It’s kinda confusing to discover that the party who invented the gays, guns, and zygotes strategy has so many gay members—
How’d that happen?
I eat rice and beans and vegetables.
Went to the D.C. march yesterday. I see a bleak future.
But am heartened at all the young people at yesterday’s march.
So many. So dedicated. So full of youth and energy and spirit and, I hope, the future.
kirk murphy @ 3
The male best friend, whose name is Coit Dennis Blacker, goes by “Chip” so it was Rice, Bean’s and Chip’s house. Now only Rice and Bean’s house.
You can’t make this stuff up. No one would believe you.
CTuttle @ 1
Nice goin’, buddy …
((( TSF ))) … another great post … maybe if the Reps didn’t spend so much time in the closet, they’d do a better job running the country.
Projection – one of the less adaptive psychological defense mechanisms.
TeddySanFran @ 11
Any tenants or visitors named Salsa?
Petrocelli @ 12
They don’t want to run it; they want to drown it in a bathtub.
The authoritarian seeks an assist from the state to repress his/her urges? I dunno. It’s a marvel, though.
rwcole @ 9
Naked hypocrisy. This has been another installment of Simple Answers to Simple Questions.
Petrocelli @ 12
Hey, Mi Amigo, an early entrance tonite…!!!
Rice and Beans and a bag of Chips!
Now hows about some Guacamole ?
rwcole @ 9
… ancient saying … choose your enemies wisely, you will become them …
Shorter Condi “Still technically a virgin” Rice: “Gay…me? I don’t recall*.”
*Symptomatic of one suffering from that dreaded Repug disease of Fredomasochism.
TexBetsy @ 15
LOL … Hiya Betsy, forgot my “/s”, and now I can’t go back to enter it …
For an entree, I’ll have the Hypocritende, with a side of rice and beans.
OMG.
I know you can’t make this up, TSF, but…there it is anyway!
OMG.
TeddySanFran @ 11
And thqat’s where again? Salsalito?
omg – hooted so loud I frightened the cats…
Thank you, Teddy.
Please tell me Coit’s steady is Allan Guac.
Cause after coit-al…
we could have rice, beas, chip, and guac.
These financial arrangements — the house purchase, the home improvement loan, the buyout by the male partner — are not only public record; they must have been disclosed to the GOP Senate Foreign Relations Committee during her confirmation hearings. Were no Spidey Senses set to tingling at these disclosures?
Or is the Work Wife of Dear Leader simply beyond questioning?
Here’s the Althouse comments section.
kirk murphy @ 13
Hi Kirk, this has been the consistent approach of BushCo … speak out against that which you embrace … confused many Americans for 6 years …
Oh, and, can I have a tiny bowl of Sour Cream?
(sorry, I couldn’t help myself!)
So if Condi’s gay- what does that make her “husband”?
This REALLY gets confusing.
So is shrub a lesbian?
Mad Dog @ 21:
Or better still “I wasn’t tasked for parting Beef Curtains.”
They haven’t trotted Condi out in some time, wonder what the reasoning is on their part? To think, for a while there the wingers touted her as a legitimate presidential hopeful. Of course they think Ann Coulter is a legitimate, reasoned voice in today’s political debate too. Sometimes you just have to call it like you see it. They’re fuc*ing morons.
kirk murphy @ 25
Kirk, you’re really enjoying this, aren’t you ?!! *g*
What about W and his old roommate (not Bin Laden’s brother), the other one…Victor Ashe (who is now Ambassador to Poland). Lots of stuff on it out there.
Hee-hee.
yes
*g*
rice and beans = complete protein
Don’t tell me Bean is a Kurd.
rwcole @ 31
I’m not a fan of tranny jokes but I keep thinking about him and the codpiece that Tweety was so hot over . . . . .
Sometimes, a post just writes itself. All you have to do is get the hell out of the way.
Nice one, Teddy!
Secretary Rice, who has raised no objection with our dependent ally (Egypt), our enemy (Iraq), or our significant trading partner and lender (China) with regard to state killings of gays for being gay, had this to say in 2005 at the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco:
Issue a report. That’ll work.
David Ehrenstein @ 27
Where’s all the toenail polishing hints?
Mmmmm…a chip off the old turdblossom.
Hi RevDeb! Great to see you! Enjoying the job? New house? Etc?
Coit Blacker is a great name for a Colt Studios model.
TeddySanFran @ 26
CarpetMunchers are off limits fer yer liberal questioning thingy in the Congress thingy.
Hey – it gave Bush cover to withdraw from Iraq, right?Oh – wait.
nevermind
RevDeb @ 39
No that makes Mr. Decider Teh Gay! Er…oh…I’m so confused now!
Jonathan @ 37
Who said being vegetarian wasn’t fun ?!! *g*
Something for everyone to enjoy:
Mozart’s 24th piano concerto.
no link
best on good vinyl…
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 42
Ya’ll are merciless…!!! ;-)
RevDeb,
We’re usually not Here at the same time, so, let me say thank you for the communal reading you posted the other day.
It reminded me of a Confession in the Methodist Hymnal, which I wrongly thought was Canadian. When I looked it up, it’s actually called The World Methodist Social Affirmation and is really progressive.
I’m going to see if it’s online somewhere, and if it’s not, I’ll type it out for ya.
Contains…
“…misuse of power
in personal, communal, nationa, and internation life;”
Interested?
TexBetsy @ 44
Been mucho busy settling in.
Millinaryman came to church this morning and then there was a food fest in town. It was great to see him. Did my High Holiday service which was well received. Member played the Max Bruch Kol Nidrei on cello with piano accompaniment. It was marvelous!
Still have lots of boxes to unload in my room/office and we need to put the art on the walls, but we’re getting there.
Thanks for asking. I’ve missed FDL and the threads more than I can say.
Jeez. We may need Darkblack’s help to be able to really grasp the reality of this situation.
Nothing to be confused about. Now we know who James D. Guckert (aka. “Jeff Gannon”) was sleeping with on his White Hosue overnights.
But who was fucking Laura?
Gwen Ifill?
David Ehrenstein @ 27
TRex, this is just for you.
My, my, my. That GOP closet seems to be getting very large and extremely cluttered (especially with all of Condi’s shoes). If I was gay, I would be trumpeting this stuff far and wide to everyone who would listen (and some who won’t) to expose the rank hypocracy of the Wrong Wing.
carolyn urban @ 54
::wanders off in search of the brain bleach::
Someone was fuckin Laura? Did she notice?
Beans and Rice! Mighty good when served with chopped onion, cucumber and tomato with Italian dressing on top!
But that scenario would involve gayness plus interracialness. How would many of our countrymen on the right take to this?
I strongly encourage everyone to post at Althouse’s outhouse.
No that makes Mr. Decider Teh Gay! Er…oh…I’m so confused now!
Factoring in teh Gannon (and his ever so serviceable cannon) and Condi’s barely suppressed Dom look, seems Shrub is a bi submisssive into BDSM.
Hmm – no wonder he married a woman who’d run over her last boyfriend.
RevDeb @ 53
Very cool. I read your prayer from the Gates of Repentance. How relevant! Thank you.
rwcole @ 59
Bush did it once and got a twofer.
Has Condi ever spoken out publicly on the subject of gay rights? That’s not rhetorical, I really don’t know. I’ve always undertstood that the ethics of outing public figures requires that they be on record with homophobic statements/legislation. Then they become fair game. McHenry and pals fall into that class. In Condi’s case she has been part of an admistration built on the bedrock of hatred so definitely at least sins of ommission for her silence…
Well maybe- or she just passed out on the wet spot.
Nope.
Silent as the grave.
David Ehrenstein @ 45
So you think his boyfriend’s name is Al or Tower?
tastes better and
lessevery bit as filling…What about Laura’s story about Bush milking the horse.
Well Condi hasn’t been lyin bout much of anything lately. Is she sick?
TexBetsy @ 63
That was published in 1975. SO relevant today it is scary.
We confess our sin, individual and collecive,
by silence or action:
through the violation of human dignity
based on race, class, age, sex, nation, or faith;
through the exploitation of people
because of greed and indifference;
through the misuse of power
in personal, communal national, and internation life;
through the search for security
by those military and economic forces
that threaten human existence;
through the abuse of technology
which endangers the earth and all life upon it.
…
Al Tower works for me.
Speaking of Bill Moyers,
There is agreat overview of the run up to 9-11 on Bill Moyer’s Journal right now. At least it’s on now in NY
LS @ 70
Thanks for reminding me. I’d almost forgotten. Ewww!
LS @ 64
Which got him out of the second boink.
Without denying the hoot-worthiness of any of this, and while I’m also shaking my head at the sheer number of closeted gays in this admin (I mean, maybe it should be illegal to be closeted, as a matter of national security; see what all these closeted people have done to our country!), I’m still struck, as I commented yesterday, by the difference in how Rice is being targeted here.
All the other outed gay (or even just sex-hypocritical) government officials first did something illegal or in direct opposition to publicly championed vows before being raked over the coals. Rice has not “taken a wide stance”, has not gone after minors, has not raped anyone, has not spent public money on prostitutes, has not gone on at length in public about TEH FAMILY, but she’s getting targeted now.
If this is the approach to take that’s fine, but then how come we didn’t target Craig BEFORE his arrest for solicitation of sex in a public area? That would have been the equivalent treatment.
I’m just saying. I don’t like Rice by any means, but I don’t like this differential, either.
TeddySanFran @ 41
Has she specifically pleaded for sparing of any *other* people at all. Or is her call just a blanket let’s do a report? In other words, if a lesbian is up on the chopping block in one country, is she busy convincing another country to spare, say, a woman (heterosexual) from being stoned for adultery instead? Or is she just happy to make a toothless request for a report either way?
If she is silent or the same on both counts, it may be utterly cold, but it’s not a case of hypocrisy. If she does plead for the one but not the other, then I’ll hold silent.
In addition to everything alleged above, Condi also appears to have teh cooties.
demi @ 73
Yep, that pretty much says the same thing.
Communal confessional can be a powerful thing if the people are really paying attention to the words they are saying. Lots of people took today’s program home with them which had the prayers in it. Usually they leave them behind in the recycle box.
Mad Dogs @ 21
frogs
frogs remember that nasty little boy
send your prez a fluffy frog or a chocolate frog or a blow up frog.
coit or coite is Aust slang for anus.
TeddySanFran @ 79
Dang, in that picture of her hugging Gonzo, it looks like she has a bugger on her nose…really.
looseheadprop @ 75
All 4 of the Philly area PBS stations are begging for money right now. Nothing worth watching.
I never thought Bush could – at the same time – be more impatient and insecure than he already is.
Until I read that.
As I’ve pointed out, peanutbutter, Rice has said nothing about the numerous world-wide attacks on gays and lesbians in “freindly nation” after “friendly nation” — even when asked to do so.
Recent outbreaks of rampant homophobic violence in the former Soviet Union — where the Church rules once again — and her unwillingnes to say Word One about them are especially egregious in light of the fact that her pal Chip is an expert on Russia.
Oh – I thought it was in her arms.
kirk murphy @ 62
But didn’t W show Laura who was boss in the auto department by driving the car through the living room window early on in their marital adventure?
Oh shoot, let’s just make her the first black, gay, female, president. It would almost be worth it.
I was under the impression that Condi herself is an expert on Russia.
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush has settled on Michael B. Mukasey, a retired federal judge from New York, to replace Alberto Gonzales as attorney general and will announce his selection Monday, a source familiar with the president’s decision said Sunday evening”
Could be yet another bait n switch- or maybe this is really the guy…
Who invented the strategy of leakin someone like Olsen as a cover for the real pick. Does it work?
Jonathan @ 50
rwcole @ 90
LHP was right.
Jay @ 89
A fable that Condi herself tries hard to perpetuate.
David Ehrenstein @ 85
Does she speak out for any one *else* being oppressed?
It makes a difference to me. If she speaks out for *no one* then I can’t accuse her of hypocrisy, only of stone cold utter indifference to humanity. If she speaks out only for oppressed heterosexuals, then I will concede the point.
All the more reason to slap the bitch upside the head.
Metaphorically of course.
rwcole @ 59
I think this may be the answer to the question.
Jay @ 89
That was her specialty, she speaks fluent Russian…!!!
Wow – never knew oil addiction could give such bad shakes.
Condi is supposedly an expert on the long defunct Soviet Union…
Might as well be an expert on the Persian Empire- in fact that might be MORE relevant.
CTuttle @ 97
As I recall, the Russians tell a different story.
Jay @ 89
Which, of course, makes her such a great fit for the Middle East.
She just makes the usual BushCo noises about “promoting freedom and democracy”
Which is of course only possible through torturing and imprisoning people.
So is the reference to poor little Pat McHenry an example of “Whistling past the graveyard?” Feeling like a catty little
ghoulgirl today, are you? Well, I guess that explains why Rice refuses to run. Maybe she’ll come out after she leaves office. Memoirs, anyone?I think any GOP member that doesn’t publicly distance themselves from the ignorant, gay-bashing wing of the party is fair game. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, sitting idly by as others on your side use hate and ignorance as political wedge issues, well, the truth will out.
EvilDrPuma @ 93
But one refuted by her own actions and analyses.
Mile-High is a mile high, Denver in OT scores the GW FG!!! 23-20 over the Raiders…!!! 8-)
Closetedness is the very least of the things such a volume would have to explain.
Teddy,
Got anything good on JAG Graham lately? I think he should be fair game.
Jay @ 104
This is a wing of the party? I thought gay-bashing is now an integral part of the core essence of their party.
God save the Queen!
marg @ 88
No, it wouldn’t.
Whatever she is in her personal life, do Not confuse that with what she has done in her professional life.
Remember the shoes during Katrina?
Not. Good.
rwcole @ 99
Which expertise accounts for our stellar relationships with Putin’s Russia right? …the country now happily arming Iran and challenging our diplomatic agenda on nearly every front imaginable.
demi @ 111
second that.
Yeah- The first black, female, gay, fascist president–maybe it wouldn’t be worth it.
David Ehrenstein @ 85
It’s all about teh matching armchairs.
That’s diplomacy, folks!
kirk murphy @ 110
*spew*
Condi’s busy rekindling the spark of animosity that once existed between eastern Europe and the USA–that will make her relevant again.
David Ehrenstein @ 102
Just call them the Death Eater Party… I’m sure Ms Rowling won’t mind.
rwcole @ 114
The stilletto boots just fit the image so well. It’s an image I’d rather forget.
peanutbutter @ 78
Larry Craig was exposed by Mike Rogers at blogactive.com in October of last year; TradMed wouldn’t publish the story, and the Idaho Statesman investigated for nine months. Without the sources going on record, the Statesman wouldn’t publish until the allegations until after the arrest was made public by Roll Call, Morton Kondrake’s magazine, the afternoon Alberto Gonzales resigned.
Secretary Rice is fourth in line of presidential succession and an enabler of the most homophobic, gay-baiting and gay-hating administration in American history, which may owe its “re-election” to the four million more evangelicals brought to the polls by marriage amendments on the ballots in their states.
She was also the National Security Adviser when the PDB entitled “Bin Laden Determined To Attack in US,” detailing the possibility of highjacked planes, was delivered to the President in August 2001, after she had ignored Richard Clarke’s warnings about al-Qaida since before her boss was inaugurated.
Her odiousness may not be specific as to homo issues, but she has committed malfeasance, high crimes, and misdemeanors — without question. If her outing — which I have not done in this post — causes the ReichWing to ask the same stupid questions of her that they asked of Ambassador James Hormel, and if that causes her to be shamed in their eyes and therefore ineligible for wingnut welfare post-Bush, all the better.
Terribly depressing. So Bush had his little black lesbian pet to install in a high position so he could ignore her advice while he ruined the country. I bet he enjoyed that. Whoopdeedo.
What actually bothers me most is the clubbiness of it all, where Bush’s stooges were best buds with Clinton’s stooges.
Jay @ 89
The Russians laugh at her. She is an expert on the Soviet Union, and has not kept up, in their view.
Could have Gonzo– first “not a gay”, hispanic, idiot, fascist president…Whaddya say?
OK.. there’s a little voice on my shoulder (better angels and all) telling me that it’s really unfair to call condi a lesbian without the slightest compelling evidence. .. just thought I’d say that I’m not comfortable with this form of attack. … really unfair to gays.
Condi doesn’t know where to find a good restuarant in Moscow or what to order- what the fuck good is she?
Who can name Condi’s three biggest accomplishments as secy of state?
BINGO!!!!
That’s why I said what this country needs is a second political party.
rwcole @ 125
The black shoes. The tan purse. The brown sandals.
rwcole @ 123
Again, the Rowling novels comes to mind.. the long progression of mindless, comically idiotic ministers being manipulated by Lord Cheneymort.
Condi may have just been doin tap dancin in that stall.
RevDeb @ 119
JediDeb
(waving hand slowly, from left to right)
You don’t need to remember that….
TeddySanFran @ 122
Bush’s administration is filled with ‘experts’ … they’ve made America weaker in every sense while her enemies have grown stronger in every way.
Bush’s friends and relatives made out like bandits, though … Mission Accomplished !
rwcole @ 99
Ah, the expertise of the neocon self-proclaimed experts. How might it be questioned, since self-judged, & by what indiscenable, subjective standard…
“Cheneymort” Now there’s an appropriate name.
1) Ferregamo shoes
2) Aluminum tubes
3) Marrying George W. Bush (who is evidently a Mormon.)
Hmm…yeah, you’re right. Some of them are more rabid about it than others though. I suppose one of the things we’ve learned these last few years is that the more they squeal about the threat of “the gays” threatening our society (or whatever the hell they believe), the more likely it is that they’re hiding from their own self-loathing reality.
rwcole @ 133
‘cept that the Harry Potter villains actually did have a coherent ideology and political theory to go along with their thuggery… not sure that Cheneymort’s thugs do, beyond their lust for power and their desire to pillage the treasury.
hahahahahahahahaha – the family values crowd keeps getting caught in the “gay lifestyle” – imagine that – hahahahahahahaha
rwcole @ 125
She’s accomplished as much as SOS as Laura has as First Lady.
John, though I agree that Bush ignored Condi on international affairs, I also believe he was quite compliant in domestic affairs.
No wonder poor Bush always seems so tongue-tied.
Condi wants those heels shined.
43: President “Bottom’s up”
(Madame Secretary, please send a firm diplomatic message to the right cheek. yessss.)
David at 126
Seems to me that both political parties are the same. Because of corporate contributions.
I like the idea of a 3rd party but wonder why it wouldn’t be similarly corrupted.
Ann in AZ @ 103
The reference is to “which scandal will overwhelm the GOP this week: Rice & Bean’s or Baby McHenry?” Sorry if that was unclear.
And, no, I’m not feeling like a little girl, catty or otherwise, if you were asking me.
Oh, like we need a president what has an Exon Oil Vessel named after her/him/whatever?
Man, this thread’s got my blood going.
And, after such a nice morning….
Loo Hoo. @ 138
Well, that is the hallmark of this administration – in every department, put someone in charge of it who will destroy it, either with malice, incompetence, or both.
TeddySanFran @ 11
Look, the first term had the country being run by a Dick, a Bush and a Colin. Nothing surprises me. Even the fact that Condi’s favorite BF is named Coit, which is Australian slang for pussy. Teddy, don’t even get started on Coit Tower, please.
RevDeb @ 108
According to David Broder, he’s a realist.
Alicia @ 143
Bathtub. Drowning government. Norquist.
Just what her firm diplomatic missions would do for 43, I expect.
Dayam, it is Rocket’s 200th career start in Fenway!!! It’s a travesty I tell’s ya…!!! ;-)
Interesting that Glenn Kessler picked Condi Rice as a subject for a book.
Condi Rice will “allegedly” be called to testify in the A*P*C espionage trial. Glenn Kessler was one of the journalist involved int the A*P*C case who “alllegedly” passed classified intellgence about Iran to Rosen and Weissman who then passed it off to Israeli officials. Many people believe this has undermined US National Security.
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/gs…..leid=10853
On July 21, 2004, Weissman and Rosen called Washington Post reporter Glenn Kessler to pass information that they said was from “an American intelligence source.”
kirk murphy @ 147
Tha Doctor is in da house !
The “cakewalk in Iraq” zealots do not like that Condi Rice is pushing for more diplomatic means to be used in regard to Iran.
Damn – time to get back to canning.
Why am I seized with the strange urge to bounce Ball lids off the backside of a peach?
(From a wide stance, of course.)
kirk murphy @ 147
Head expoding!
Well not just that. Both parties are about maintaining the status quo and are painfully resistant to societal change of any sort. As someone who has been part of the Gay Rights movement since 1969 I find recent developments astonishing. How the Dems treat Teh Gay is indicative of their real attitude towards ALL marginalized and/or disenfranchised groups. They want to “keep the lid on,” above all. In the past the could count on The Closet.
But they can’t anymore.
Which reminds me. Be sure to tune in tonight to the Emmys as “Doogie” is bringing his boyfriend “Tulsa”: a True Political Act.
I am of course rooting for “Doogie” to win.
Maybe Fred Thompson could use a new trophy wife, as well as a Secretary of State. Ya know.. he could have both….
Petrocelli @ 150
Maybe Ms. Rice just needs a really good massage and a meditation lesson.
(and a manicure!)
thanks for the juicy info Teddy.
May I introduce a women of many talents, the Secretary of State, ‘quarter proven tight ass’ Condoleezza Rice!
Blub @ 155
Heh, I don’t think he likes her gaps…!!! ;-)
kirk murphy @ 152
Can you imagine the reaction of Condi’s Secret Service detail? Or maybe they are in on the fun too. We should all start throwing quarters at her butt when she appears in public.
Metaphorically speaking, of course.
This is the list provided to TPM of the 36 official countries named in Bush’s speech the other night. I have provided the number of troops of each country, and, according to the official wiki page of multi-national troops in Iraq, the following countries have withdrawn their troops:
Japan, Lithuania, Singapore, Slovakia, Ukraine, and Tonga
Here is the list of countries with either the number of troops in Iraq or the withdrawal date:
1. Albania 120
2. Armenia 46
3. Austrailia 638
4. Azerbaijan 150
5. Bosnia and Herzegovina 37
6. Bulgaria 150
7. Czech Republic 100
8. Denmark 460
9. El Salvador 380
10. Estonia 34
11. Georgia 300
12. Japan- withdrawn 07-06
13. Kazakhstan 29
14. South Korea 1,200
15. Latvia 136
16. Lithuania-withdrawn 01-07
17. Macedonia 33
18. Moldova 12
19. Mongolia 100
20. Poland 900
21. Romania 865
22. Singapore- withdrawn 03-05
23. Slovakia-withdrawn 01-07
24. Ukraine- withdrawn 12-05
25. United Kingdom 5,500
26. Tonga- withdrawn 12/04
United Nations Assistance Mission in Iraq (Not listed are countries that are providing forces in other categories)
1. Canada
2. Fiji
3. New Zealand (withdrew reg.troops 09-04)
NATO Training NTM-I
1. Hungary (withdrew reg. troops 03-05)
2. Iceland (withdrew reg. troops unknown date)
3. Italy (withdrew reg. troops 11-06)
4. Netherlands (withdrew reg. troops 03-05)
5. Portugal (withdrew reg. troops 02-05)
6. Slovenia (withdrew reg. troops 01-07)
7. Turkey
US: 168,786
182,00 Private Military Contractors (118,000 Iraqi, 43,000 Other, 21,000 US)
As long as we’re piling on Condi Rice, my gripe is the rank, hypocritical, dishonesty.
“No one could ever have imagined they would use planes as missles.”
Excuse me, Dr. Rice. Anyone old and aware enough to watch the news in 1972 was aware of it; that was the year Southern Airways Flight 49 was hijacked, and flown around the country accompanied by a huge media circus. Surely you remember, Dr. Rice…because at one point the plane was orbiting Oak Ridge, Tennessee, while a hijacker held a gun to the pilot’s head and ordered him to dive it into a reactor…the pilot talked him out of it. This method of attack may have some bearing on your job, Dr. Rice, and if you weren’t aware of it, you should then resign for the good of the country.
Or so it seems to me.
Condi is responsible for her choices. The fact that as a black woman she chose the Republican party that doesn’t value minorities in any way is telling.
So the tiara only goes on after he bangs…
the gavel….
down for the Senate…
Republican
cloaccaucusIn
closetclosed session, of course.ccmask,
Iceland (1) … I’m serious. medic I think
Children:
Daddy is going to be watching ESPN now. If you know what is good for you, you will not disturb him.
Thought it was a reporter! Probably NEEDS a medic.
BigMitch @ 144
tis called nominative determanism
coit isn’t vagi*a,it’s anus.
According to my above, Iceland does have nato training, but the regular troops have withdrawn (of which there were originally 2)
ccmask @ 168
From what I understand, Iceland does not actually have an army.
If you keep mocking homosexual Republicans like this then soon, before you know it, Palestinians will think they deserve to live without being walled in.
it’s all connected.
teddysanfran at 11 says-”The male best friend, whose name is Coit Dennis Blacker, goes by “Chip” so it was Rice, Bean’s and Chip’s house. Now only Rice and Bean’s house.
You can’t make this stuff up. No one would believe you.”
is blacker’s partner ‘dale’ or a ‘dip’?
(late to the thread, apologies if anyone already posted the obvious..i couldn’t resist….now, to catch up on comments……)
Countries who don’t have armies sent a cook- those who don’t have cooks sent prisoners. Everyone contributed.
Blub @ 164
Oh Canada, Too!!! At least loosely connected to Iraq, however, they’re contributing sizable numbers for Afghanistan!!! 8-)
BigMitch @ 165
OOPS, sorry! I meant to yell that to my kids!
rwcole @ 172
lol
Condi criticizes illegal settlement expansion
http://www.iranfocus.com/modul…..oryid=1741
Los Angeles Times
By Paul Richter and Tyler Marshall – Times Staff Writers
WASHINGTON — Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice criticized Israel in unusually sharp terms Thursday, warning that its plans to expand an Israeli West Bank settlement was “at odds with American policy” and could threaten progress toward peace with the Palestinians at a critical moment.
BigMitch @ 174
Heh, Game On!!! ;-)
Lordy, Lordy, Lordy, Christmas in September! I must have been a very good boy. The only way this can get better is if Condi reveals that she is Laura’s secret lover, because Dubya is impotent. Oh, I’m drooling.
CTuttle @ 173
Oh, that’s right. I was using the multinational in Iraq. My bad. Sorry Canada.
Chargers/Patriots comin on up.
It starts with Condi buying fabulous leather shoes while New Orleans drowns and ends up with Iraqui refugees pouring into Syria which is an axis of evil.
And all because you mock.
Hee-hee.
When Bush came to fundraise in Westwood (next to the Oppenheimer Tower, IIRC) the Secret Service came to our medic demo across the street to check for dangers.
Even they cracked a grin at the “feeding station” stocked with pretzels.
The only tosses were metaphorical, however.
I was surprised the wingnuts didn’t have Condi’s head when she swore in her subordinate as Global AIDS Apologist with the comments about his “family,” including his “partner” and his “mother-in-law.”
That must have made some sanctified marriages unravel right there.
TeddySanFran @ 182
I’m going to blame my three divorces on Condi.
Marriage was originally designed as an institution between a man and as many women as he could afford.
rwcole @ 180
Quite the sports nite in Beantown, tonite!!! Go, Patsies!!! My Broncos squeaked out a win…!!! ;-)
rwcole @ 184
Who are you quoting, Mitt Romney?
just shows how utterly cynical they are. an entire gay/lesbian republican subculture perpetuating their power manipulating the anti-gay ‘heartland.’
toby martin @ 178
Frances Townsend’s repeated statements on Sunday chatfests about Osama being “virtually impotent” were quite the case of projection.
Out here in SoCal- it’s “derail the Patriot ACT”
Mask
No Moses
Gay Rights in Iraq
“No one could have anticipated. . .”
No, of course it wouldn’t be worth it, which is why I said “almost” (doubtless thinking it a lot louder than anyone heard it). But I do wish we could get beyond all these ethnic/gender/sexual orientation barriers once and for all, and if we actually had a decent candidate who could knock down all three in one blow AND prove a good president, I’d like to see it happen in my lifetime.
What do folks know about Glenn Kessler?
“Libby’s testimony was that he provided information about Ms. Plame to Judy Miller, Matt Cooper of TIME, and Glenn Kessler of the Washington Post, in each case attributing his information to reporter gossip (Kessler testified that Libby told him no such thing; apparently, Libby over-confessed.)”
Kessler and A*P*C case
Media Tangled in Lobbyist Case
Press Freedoms Debated After Wiretapping of Call to Reporter
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, November 12, 2005; A10
On July 21, 2004, two pro-Israel lobbyists called Washington Post reporter Glenn Kessler to pass on information that they said was from “an American intelligence source” — a source they declined to identify.
The two men assured Kessler that the mystery source was “100 percent credible” and had information about an Iranian plot to kill Americans and Israelis in Iraq.
What none of them knew was that federal investigators were wiretapping the call, or that it would figure in an indictment against the lobbyists, Steven J. Rosen and Keith Weissman, on charges of mishandling classified information — even though no documents changed hands. In a city where secrets of varying import are whispered every day, the case has sparked a debate about whether prosecutors are attempting to criminalize conversations with journalists.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..49_pf.html
So I’m watching the emmys and realizing I hardly know anybody on it. Maybe we need an awards show for politicos. Then I would know who was on the stage.
So after hours Conde is a two-bit bottom bouncer who likes to shell her own lady pole beans.
IOW, Condi.
Ut oh. Liberals have to choose between their love of free press and their hatred of Israel. Bummer.
RevDeb, I think it would be fun to have a news quiz (no fair using teh google) on Saturday or Sunday.
Loo Hoo. @ 198
They do that on NPR but they have such wankers participating that I don’t care.
OT?
BAGHDAD, Sept. 17 — A U.S. State Department motorcade came under attack in Baghdad on Sunday, prompting security contractors guarding the convoy to open fire in the streets. At least nine civilians were killed, according to Iraqi officials.
The shootout occurred in the downtown neighborhood of Mansour at midday after an explosion detonated near the convoy, police said. In response, the security contractors “escalated the force to defend themselves,” a U.S. Embassy official in Baghdad said.
RevDeb @ 113
Absolutely. There’s tons of crap to lay at her feet.
Um, so to speak.
rwcole @ 180
Given my contempt for the current Fresno-based (rethug) owner of our football franchise, I think I’ll root for the Patriots. In any events, all hail the Padres (our last remaining pro team)!
Hired thugs. When and if the history of this genocidal campaign is written the role of these “contractors” is worthy of a separate study.
Such a neat name, “contractors.” As of they were there to build houses or something.
THEY’RE CONTRACT KILLERS !!!!
Blub @ 203
As a divisional foe, I’m rooting for the Patsies…!!!
David Ehrenstein @ 204
… or hired cannon fodder. ‘pends on one’s perspective I guess. Disposable, regardless.
Patriots came to play tonight. The clickers are going to get worn out here in NE tonight!
David Ehrenstein @ 204
Read too many issues of Mercenary magazines.
David Ehrenstein @ 203
mercenaries or mercs.
David Ehrenstein @ 204
And making at least ten times what our armed troops earn for the same tasks. That’s gotta be demoralizing, if you are a truck mechanic, to know the Blackwater truck mechanic working alongside you is making $12,000 a month. And that your guys are responsible for protecting him.
Have you read the ads in the back of Soldier of Fortune ? That’s how Halliburton does its hiring.
Hi Teddy:
Interestingly, Patrick McHenry has a first degree of separation connection to Ralph Gonzales, who was recently murdered down in Florida in what police at the time speculated was a lover’s triangle, and has also been involved in other typically Conservative activities, like election fraud.
And if anyone remembers a famous YouTube of Barney Frank chairing a House session and b*tch-slapping a Republican on procedure, the b*tch being slapped was McHenry. Heh.
David Ehrenstein @ 211
that at career fairs at the local college campuses… my students have to pay back their loans somehow.
big mitch at 198 says-” Ut oh. Liberals have to choose between their love of free press and their hatred of Israel. Bummer.”
i am totally sick of comments like this….you and the person on the other side of your personal wars…..why don’t you two just take it outside somewhere else??????………startin’ shit just to start shit………AND FOR WHAT?????????????????? a little pickle thrill?
some of us take it seriously…..the israeli/palestinian crisis…..when you make comments like this, it tells me that for you it’s just a position to spout off about, otherwise you wouldn’t throw it around so cheaply……..so, stop it, please.
Just did the writing for comedy. The nominations were a hoot. As the names were called out for Real Time, the pics were all shoes in bathroom stalls.
Conan’s team won.
Too bad.
I’d vote for The Daily Show myself.
Yep. The Ralph Gonzales connection is the lit fuse that’s gonna blow this case wide open.
RevDeb @ 195
And the winnner of the “culture of Corruption” award is ……I mean the winnerS of the “Culture of Corruption” awards are…..fill the page
Did the Damage assessment Report from the Plame leak ever get released?
David Ehrenstein @ 216
I think it’s Ralph GonzaleZ, if I’m not mistaken. Let’s not perpetuate the former attorney general’s mutilation of the Spanish language.
McHenry annoys me as much as Shays.
Kathleen @ 217
Couldn’t have been or FDL would have been ALL over it.
RevDeb @ 221
I’m sure Scooter’s diligently ghostwriting it as we speak.
TeddySanFran @ 210
And after we train them in our military. After being trained for seven or eight years at taxpayer expense, and when they are really expert, they go to Blackwater. Criminal enterprise.
Petrocelli @ 20
Loo Hoo. @ 223
TeddySanFran @ 210
Any word on Duncan Hunter’s proposal to inflict a blackwater training facility on San Diego?
David Ehrenstein,
Tried to conjure you up yesterday and the day before, when the term “fickle finger of fate” came up. I’ve been asking where it originally came from, and have stated that it appears in the script of the musical comedy “Sweet Charity” which premiered on Broadway in January, 1966, in a line by Charity. Rowan and Martin started using the term in September of the next year. I can’t find any information beyond this on the web, but suspect the term might even pre-date the musical.
rwcole @ 125
Hmmm.
Um.
Er.
Ah…no
Can I get back to you in that?
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0213.html
An exposure like that required an immediate operational and counter intelligence damage assessment,” Johnson said. “That was done. The results were written up but not in a form for submission to anyone outside of CIA.”
One former counterintelligence official described the CIA’s reasons for not seeking Congressional assistance on the matter as follows: “[The CIA Leadership] made a conscious decision not to do a formal inquiry because they knew it might become public,” the source said. “They referred it [to the Justice Department] instead because they believed a criminal investigation was needed.”
The source described the findings of the assessment as showing “significant damage to operational equities.”
Another counterintelligence official, also wishing to remain anonymous due to the nature of the subject matter, described “operational equities” as including both people and agency operations that involve the “cover mechanism,” “front companies,” and other CIA officers and assets.
Three intelligence officers confirmed that other CIA non-official cover officers were compromised, but did not indicate the number of people operating under non-official cover that were affected or the way in which these individuals were impaired. None of the sources would say whether there were American or foreign casualties as a result of the leak.
Several intelligence officials described the damage in terms of how long it would take for the agency to recover. According to their own assessment, the CIA would be impaired for up to “ten years” in its capacity to adequately monitor nuclear proliferation on the level of efficiency and accuracy it had prior to the White House leak of Plame Wilson’s identity.”
shano @ 224
Bush has been Santa Claus to Al Qaeda and the Taliban … made all their wishes come true
and we still have 15 months left in his War of Terror … kudos to Borat …
lambert strether @ 211
Great videos. Thanks. I was hoping the Ralphie story would have faster legs but maybe as we get closer to the election…
dakine01 @ 227
Hopefully still to come,she still has some time, to do what she can to stop a pre-emptive attack on Iran
Blub @ 225
Haven’t seen anything recently, but I don’t read the local papers regularly. The great news is that Duncan Hunter Jr. is going to run for daddy’s seat!
Ed*ard Teller @ 226
The Fickle Finger of Fate (also known as El Dedo del destino and The Cup of St. Sebastian) is a 1967 comedy film directed by Richard Rush, produced by Sidney W. Pink, and starring Tab Hunter. Hunter stars as a clumsy businessman who accidentally gets wrapped up in a plot of intrigue while on a trip to Spain.
The film was distributed in America by Troma Entertainment.
Tagline: It’s James Bond on acid!
FFF
Kathleen @ 231
…after which Cheney will slap her into leg irons…
FWIW, I also really regret having the P/I issue intruded into just about every thread here at Lake (by commenters on both sides of the issue).
In any group, there is the putative content (what people talk about on the surface), the process (social mechanics of how people interact), and the emotional tone (’nuff said).
Repeatedly bringing up the I/P issue changes the emotional tone of the thread in which the issue is intruded.
As a shrink, when I see the same person(s) repeatedly doing this, I think about projective identification.
In projective identification, an individual will engage in behaviors which cause in others the same uncomfortable feelings the individual has yet cannot identify/communicate.
So when I see someone constantly showing the same process (bringing up the same divisive issue) and creating anger, frustration and resentment…my inner shrink tends to conclude that person is walking around mired in the emotion they continually create in others.
But that’s just how a shrink who has had years of psychoanalysis sees the world.
Others’ perspectives may vary.
And though I don’t enjoy reading the A*P*C line when I see it spouted here, the most frequent gratutitous intrusion of I/P dissonance into unrelated threads comes from the pro-P side.
Whichever side, I’m really tired of it at the Lake and I believe it is uncalled for and detrimental to this community.
So I’d like to see the gratutitous references to the I/P conflict stop. Real soon now.
Loo Hoo. @ 232
…yeah.. did a double-take when that one came up. Geeesshhh.. we have our own little Dear Leader dynasty thing going on over there in East County… complete with their own private ‘lil Blackwater army. Is there a palatial Hunter family compound out there too?
I see Valerie’s book release date is Oct. 22 on Amazon.
Hello, Pups!! Am happy to be back from DC and about to shower and crawl into my own bed. The march was fantastic – family friendly, peaceful and large! Am putting up photos in backwards order on my photo blog http://www.ykosfdl.blogspot.com/
Oh yeah
http://today.reuters.com/news/…..DEBATE.xml
Iran leader repeats challenge to debate Bush at U.N.
Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:40pm ET148
By Parisa Hafezi
TEHRAN (Reuters) – Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad challenged U.S. President George W. Bush to a debate on global issues at a U.N. summit in New York, state TV reported on Sunday, repeating a call rejected by Washington last year.
“I had suggested holding a debate. I am saying again that let us discuss global concerns at the (U.N.) General Assembly in front of representatives of other nations,” Ahmadinejad told state television.
The White House rejected Ahmadinejad’s last year call for a presidential debate, calling it a “diversion”.
I would pay a good sum of $$$ money to watch such a debate.
kirk murphy @ 235
You’re not fixated on this are you?
kirk murphy @ 235
I’m wondering, and I’m serious here, about the notion that some of us have a single issue about which almost everything else revolves. For me it’s most certainly Vietnam. I am very aware that the fact that I was there at the age of 18 makes it a central issue in my make up. I’m sure some people get tired of how I, and a couple other vets, tend to focus on that war. Is there a relationship here to what you are talking about?
Speaking about the Duncan Hunter Jr race, we should consider looking into what we might able to do for the Dem contender (against the dynasty) there.. Mike Lumpkin http://lumpkinforcongress.com/…
Lumpkin: “A congressional district is too important to pass from father to son as a birthright”
I wish that was funny…
Kathleen @ 239
Why ? None of these guys speak English … /s
Kathryn in MA @ 238
Mahalo for the Pixs and your efforts!!! *g*
Kathryn in MA @ 238
Thanks for sharing your pics!
love the hippy bus!
raven, I for one have enjoyed seeing how you, James and Jonathan have bonded here.
Siun, has a new thread up!!!
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..s/#respond
raven @ 241
I for one, do not tire of this issue (’Nam) at all.
Perhaps some who talk of the “P/I conflict” are interested in peace. Peace? I don’t need a shrink to tell me about peace. I know it when I see it.
LoudounLib @ 246
Thanks. I realize that the fact that we are pretty much in agreement about the war in Iraq and, to a lesser extent, about the Nam gives us a certain cache here. Since this is a “progressive” blog most posters are down with us as well. But my question was really about the idea of being driven by a single issue.
kirk murphy,
There was a time when the I/P issue rarely was brought up at fdl. To describe it as something that comes up in “just about every thread here” is probably highly inaccurate. I have a lot of respect for you and agree that some of the ways the issue comes back again and again can be irritating to people on either side, or to others who are uninformed, think the issue unimportant or whatever.
I think that one of the reasons ” the most frequent gratutitous intrusion of I/P dissonance into unrelated threads comes from the pro-P side” is that some commenters here trust fdl to be able to help find resolutions in this intractable debate more than they trust some other blog to come up with something possibly creative.
I’ve discussed aspects of how this relates to fdl here, and in e-mails or one-on-one discussions with Jane, Siun, Big Mitch and others. Like you, I don’t feel a bit comfortable with “gratuitous references” to the I/P or any other conflict – here or at other places. You should realize, though, that the issue is becoming more important nationally and internationally, not less important.
If the I/P issue is not dealt with nothing is resolved in the middle east. That conflict and how it influences the whole region and our foreign policy is woven into many issues.
If that issue brings up anger confusion and resentment up for you, I’m sorry. I for one would like to see that conflict resolved.
Kidding aside, what are the odds that the Condi Rice and Beans story has been set off by the Cheney clique to throw her overboard in the run-up to an attack on Iran?
Excuse my tin-foil.
Raven and other Nam-experienced/shaped folks…
As someone too young to remember that time, I appreciate the perspective and experiences you share here at the lake. I don’t see any parallel or relationship to what Kirk and (someone else) are trying to address vis a vis the I/P conflict and A*P*C thing. AFAIR, there’s no “baiting” or “stirring the pot just to stir the pot” when all y’all bring up The Nam.
Best,
FunnyDiva
Raven, I was trying to make a subtle point, and I may well have failed.
Lots of people may return to a central aspect of their lives (their child; their military service) and describe it here. (I do this myself, too.).
When I see people doing this here, the content seems to be related to the thread – and the central themes people refer back to (their child, their partner, their military service, their tree-hugging) have variable impacts on different threads’ emotional tone on differing occasions.
I see this as quite different from what I was trying to describe (and not a problem).
What I was trying to desribe is gratutiously including content (I/P) that often has no apparent connection to the thread yet almost invaraibly have the same impact on emotional tome.
The latter outcome is what I find gratuitous, wholly avoidable, deleterious to this community, and just an all-around bummer.
Hope this clarification was opaque than my initial comment.
RevDeb @ 195
I worked for twenty some years in tv and couldn’t tell you today any one show or person who is up for that.
So, I don’t care.
In that Sweet Charity was written by Neil Simon, “The Fickle Finger of Fate” maye have come from his Your Show of Shows compariot Mel Brooks.
kirk murphy @ 235
I see something similar happening, both not only with the I/P issue. It often appears to me that discussions tend to wend towards unconstructive (as opposed to creative) chaos. I’m not referring to cross-talk and multiple themes, which are a charming feature of this great lake, but specifically to negative, sometimes even ad hominem comments that track away from the post itself. Full admission: I, too, am an analytically-trained shrink, and have also marveled at the way we here begin to manifest in tone, if not in content, a fractious, sometimes hopeless, and aggressive state akin the problems we’re often seeking to understand/address. Instead of working toward something, the thread starts raveling.
I offer this in the hope that it could be something we might work on with some consciousness. My intent is not to be a scold, but to share my own hope that we might be more constructive together.
you know those little square and flattish games where you have to manouvre the pieces around to make the alphabet or something in order?
the middle east is like that.
kirk murphy @ 255
I guess I’m just sensitive because I have a tendency to go off topic at the drop of a hat.
raven @ 241
Having just missed Nam by accident of birth, I have some curiosity about the views of todays Nam vets. Instead of you and your brothers tearing into each other, it seems to have bonded you all in spite of your differences. I’m fascinated by the topics you bring here. FWIW
Perhaps more to the point, I have yet to see such a discussion hijack, trash or even dominate a thread to its detriment.
David Ehrenstein @ 257
Does seem like a term Maestro Brooks might have created. It resonates through time, and may be going through another meaningful resuscitation. Maybe somebody can ask Neil – hint, hint…
newtonusr @ 261
Well, that’s true with us here on the Lake but the last election totally trashed the “together then together again” theme that started in the Nam Vet “community” after the Wall went up. I fooled myself into thinking that the gulf between those of us who protested Vietnam when we came home and those who did not was bridged. Unfortunately that election and the Swift Boat shit revealed that nothing had changed at all. Howevrr, my shrink thinks I deal with it pretty well! :)
Knut Wicksell @ 253
Not out of the question.
David Ehrenstein @ 257
This little-known Spanish comedy, with an outrageous performance by Tab Hunter, was one of the many low-budget films made in Spain in the mid-late 1960s by producer Sidney Pink. These generally tended to be quirky films, much too quirky to be Hollywood products, and featured interesting American stars–Barry Sullivan, Guy Madison, Cesar Romero, Jeff Hunter, Rory Calhoun, and here Tab Hunter. Pink discussed this film in his autobiography, and he made it quite clear that he did not get along with star Tab Hunter. Hunter has always had a flair for comedy, and he is quite funny in this film, which is basically the standard “American overseas who gets caught up unintentionally in some intrigue” plot. Perhaps because he was outside of Hollywood and his Hollywood image while in Spain, Hunter lets himself go here with a performance that rivals his one in THE AROUSERS as his most over-the-top. Many of his gay fans will probably love this film if they can find a copy. The supporting roles–Luis Prendes as an annoying drunk who sticks to Hunter like flypaper, Gustavo Rojo and Fernando Hilbeck as comic impediments to Hunter’s progress, Pedro Mari Sanchez as a boy who does chores for Hunter and eventually becomes a friend– are handled well
Oklahoma kiddo @ 249
For God’s sake, people, can’t we just leave the private investigators alone? They do a good service.
If we’re going to get into unrelated topics, maybe we can discuss whether the male gender has any legitimate issues in the 21st century?
raven @ 201
Linky available?
Funny how a discussion about what that individual interprets as going ot takes up more space and time than anything else.
((kirk))
raven, okkiddo, et all……see my 214………..there is a difference between discourse and firing across the bow……….and there’s another one here who fires across the bow, too……..it’s that kind of shit that doesn’t belong anywhere in a discussion…….
i didn’t take what kirk said to mean you all……..a discussion can be heated, pointed, etc,. but the i/p wars are getting a little beyond this……..for a while, i was getting so disgusted with it that i see certain names starting it up and i had my doubts about hangin’ out here…….and sure wouldn’t pass on the lake for others to come and read that crap……..
a few times, jane herself has posted to knock it off, and she was very SPECIFIC ABOUT WHY…….although the offenders had already left the thread, dropped their bombs and left like usual……..
so, this is not new, and yes, it has happened A LOT……..
raven,
I’m trying to get a copy of this movie, now that I know about it.
Waccamaw @ 266
WAPO
Kathleen @ 264
Certainly not, Knut. I would put absolutely nothing past Cheney.
Ed*ard Teller @ 269
IMDB Listing
raven -
Thanks much, luv! Off to read.
i didn’t take what kirk said to mean you all…
I know, I was just working on the idea that some people are single issue driven.
dmac @ 269
I see I am mentioned in your comment. Could you clarify your meaning as directed toward me. ;0)
raven @ 275
Sometimes I am – I hate this goddam fucking war!!!
raven (if you’re still about)-
Yeh, riiiiiiight! They’ll punish the mercs and shut down their operations. H*ll, triple their next contract apps is more like it.
Gak!
Waccamaw @ 278
Yup, almost sleepy time!
sure okkiddo, that it wasn’t directed toward you ; )
that you had misunderstood, toward kirk, and that it didn’t have to do with anything you had said……….
So do I (hate the war, ET). And I come here to find people who care about it as much as I do. It is bizarre to me to walk around my town and see so many people utterly disconnected from what is happening. And I so appreciate it when there are actions suggested and information shared that I can DO something with. Too, though, I not infrequently feel I’ve wasted my time when what starts off as something informative or constructive devolves into anger or distraction. Maybe skipping out is the only answer. Maybe I should be here a lot less often…I just can’t help wondering if there isn’t something we can do with group consciousness. It does seem, too, to me that what we can achieve as a group creates possibilities for other groups…but that’s perhaps just my own idealism showing.
Great article by Ray McGovern
http://www.informationclearing…..e18406.htm
DrDick @ 169
No army? What an endearing quality in a nation.
Fern @ 283
You might be interested in an organization called World Without Armies. It supports the de-militarization of countries, currently focussing on the 5 Central American countries with militaries (Panama and Costa Rica are disarmed). I think there’s something like 136 countries in the world that have no militaries.
Kirk and Laura,
While both of you are shrinks and limited to mere psychology, myself, I think that you coherent ‘anaylsis’ is most useful.
Clearly, emotional issues, wherein it is difficult for those involved in the emotional ‘moment’ to step ‘outside’ into broader perspective can provoke enmity and potentially continuing ill-will. And, at times, even cooler heads are unable to penetrate the essentially defensive posture of those caught in the recurring ‘fog.’
However, it is the fundamental respect for each other, found among those here, regardless of those emotional stumbling blocks, which makes the Lake so attractive.
I appreciate that both of you are willing to raise what are sometimes controversial or uncomfortable issues.
“However, it is the fundamental respect for each other, found among those here, regardless of those emotional stumbling blocks, which makes the Lake so attractive.”
David you capture exactly what I find so special about this place. Thank you so much for commenting. I was just about to close up for the night, feeling invisible. I hope Kirk sees your comment as well.
Best,
Laura
Fern @ 283
Then who’s the one guy they contributed to the War of Error?
ET, thanks for identifying my hyperbole ( I agree – not almost every thread) and I hope you are right about the following (I want you to be)
OK, is process really an unknown concept for classroom teachers? Some people love spanish – when they spout spanish nouns during algebra class, how does that affect the group? And if they choose – everytime – to spout the spanish nouns most likely to disurpt the group and you object, does that mean you don’t support Spanish – or those who seek Spanish.
Please, for Scarecrow’s sake, let’s build more robust straw (wo)men.
Toby, one has to be a big man(nix) to see the world that way.
And Kathleen -
No shit?
I guess that’s why Noam Chomsky was writing about it in the book I picked uu at UCSB in 1982 – and even read.
And now I can see why that’s why a nice woman from Skokie in UCLA’s graduate Middle Eastern Studies program who married me (for a while) and used to educate me on Palestinian rights.
While we were headed to her family’s house for the High Holy Days.
Kathleen, I observe anger and resentment in the responses to your gratuitiously raising the I/P issue in wholly unrelated threads.
In projective identification, the “projecter” is often wholly unaware of the emotions they carry inside them and pour out for other group members to experience and thus identify.
The projected emotions are almost always uncomfortable, so the “projecter” is often isolated from peers by theis defense mechanism.
Kathleen, when I see such a behavior repeated over and over, I may feel frustration and pity, but (seeing the defense mechanism) my experience is generally not one of anger, confusion, and resentment.
So I appreciate the extent of your concern, but I’m fine on this front.
Blub @ 287
He’s a member of their Crisis Team and he worked in the PR unit.
laura at 281 says in part-” Too, though, I not infrequently feel I’ve wasted my time when what starts off as something informative or constructive devolves into anger or distraction.”
it didn’t used to go on so much……..there are two of them doing it, they know who they are….or maybe they don’t, they’re both arrogant, so, maybe they don’t think they could ever offend, cuz they’re always right….they’ve both been told directly by jane to can it, more than once, yet they keep it up…………
they don’t care that they ruin it for everyone else, they only care about their own agendas………they think they’re doing us a service…….
when i read the one’s comments, i want to give everything i own to the palestinians from what they say about israel……when i hear the other, i want to join a-p-c and move to israel when i hear how rudely they espouse the palestinian cause……..i don’t think the israelis or the palestinians would feel flattered to have either one backing them……….i know this is rude, i don’t care……..i’m sick of both of them…….
they both say they want to end the i/p conflict, but i don’t see it, all they do is incinerate any discussions on it……..which got me wondering about both of their motives…….
“OK, is process really an unknown concept for classroom teachers? Some people love spanish – when they spout spanish nouns during algebra class, how does that affect the group? And if they choose – everytime – to spout the spanish nouns most likely to disurpt the group and you object, does that mean you don’t support Spanish – or those who seek Spanish.”
Is this for me?
I know what you mean, but I’ve seen this happen as well when we’re talking about Iraq or Iran. It’s not just a couple of folks, there’s a way almost that the topic becomes too painful, and numbers of us start getting sarcastic or angry (within and without of the group) and away things go. It happened this morning on LHP’s post, when she proposed reaching out to Republicans we know personally to work for peace. It’s too bad.
Sorry for being enigmatic. My post 292 is addressed to dmac 290.
Laura Doty @ 293
Laura, you may have addressed it to one person, but they are words we can all heed. Thanks.
Someday, some blog somewhere might be able to deal with that small but mightily troublesome niche of human rights, religious persecution, so-called preventive war, man-made environmental catastrophes, superstition, greed and stupidity called the i/P problem, the right of Israel to exist, the overhelming odds against the only democracy in the Middle East and whatever else one might want to call that set of issues in a way that really matters. I haven’t yet visited that blog.
But if some small chance exists that good people can contribute significantly to that solution on the web, this place will be one of the first to actually know it and acknowledge it for what it is.
Kathleen @ 127
Kirk Murphy I directed this towards you, not talking around an individual like they are not even here. Stop being childish and direct the question right at me or who ever you need to.
If the I/P issue is not dealt with nothing is resolved in the middle east. That conflict and how it influences the whole region and our foreign policy is woven into many issues.
“If that issue brings up anger confusion and resentment up for you, I’m sorry. I for one would like to see that conflict resolved.”
I know clearly what my intentions are which is to push for resolution and honest debate about this issue. (which is avoided in the MSM and on so called “progressive” blogs. And whether you want to deal with the fact that this issue permeates into many many other foreign policy issues…you can continue to get defensive and stick your head in the sand
To push for honest reporting in regard to the I/P issue. Those of us who have been involved with this issue ( 25 years for me) know that it has been shut down for debate in the MSM, and I don’t care what the bloggers here at FDL say, it has not been part of the dialogue and debate here at FDL for that long, but it is getting better and more civil.
sorry meant to link this to last thread
OK, I love Firedoglake and I love making fun of Republicans; but this episode rubs me the wrong way.
Condi has not, so far as I know; ranted about the evils of homosexuality, or pushed for more stringent anti-sodomy laws. Aside from being a bit player in GWB’s administration she has not done any of the things that would justify her being outed against her wishes.
I had hoped that FDL would exercise better editorial judgment and skip this post. The juvenile ribbing and snark in this post shows how far society as a whole has to go before people’s private sexual choices are accepted without comment.
Yes – with affection and respect :)
I assume the same for:
Laura @ 292
As this ‘issue’ is often encountered among people, even ‘progressives,’ could it be that it might be worthy of being the topic of a post?
I’m always for healthy debate, you know.
Ed*ard Teller @ 295
David corns website tried four years ago but was severely attacked, Muzzlewatch has tried but was attacked. The discussions here have gotten more civil and they obviously have great mods and filters.
What I really like is to be lectured to. Maybe I’m sick.
laura at 292 says-”
I know what you mean, but I’ve seen this happen as well when we’re talking about Iraq or Iran. It’s not just a couple of folks, there’s a way almost that the topic becomes too painful, and numbers of us start getting sarcastic or angry (within and without of the group) and away things go. It happened this morning on LHP’s post, when she proposed reaching out to Republicans we know personally to work for peace. It’s too bad.”
yes, i have noticed that, too…on many subjects, many levels of frustration, and are exhibited in dissonant tones….but then the group gels back together…….
but the i/p thing is another level…..it is directly driven by two people……it’s different…on purpose, disruptive and recurring, and persistent, because it is driven directly by them…….like i said, it is done on purpose and most times out of context, just to get it going, for no other reason than to provoke……it’s been going on for months now…..it’s been bad enough that jane has jumped in more than once and didn’t mince words about it stopping now. and yet they continue.
i decided today that i had heard enough of it. again.
time for people to grow the hell up.
read kirk’s 288, he expresses it better than i.
Laura and David, thank you both for your observations and your respective professional perspectives here.
All snark aside, I respect the level tone you both bring and wish I were able to approach that mean with
greateranymore than minimal frequency.kirk murphy @ 303
{{{Captain kirk}}}}
“A bit player in GWB’s administration”????
Oh, didn’t realize “Secretary of State” was such a low-profile job.
Like I don’t about tree-hugging? :)
No worries on this end, Raven. My residency was based in the Sepuveda VA – I liked learning from vets – and appreciate the chance to learn from you.
Sandia Blanca @ 305
No, no, I think Green was speaking of National Security Adviser when our National Security was, you know, breached. /s
Any Administration that makes its bones deriding my private and public behavior stands to lose its members’ own privacy regarding sexual “choices” — which they aren’t anyway.
kirk murphy @ 303
; )
MERCI!
Thank you Kirk and Laura Doty- I agree with you.
I have restricted my reading and posting here due to a lot of the tone at times. I basically rolled with it until one Late Nite by Trex. I e-mailed Christy with my concern and a question. I did not receive a reply. So many great commenters here. So much great info and research.
Randy Bean. You can’t make up stuff like this. I know Condi is rumored to be a lesbian. Wait a minute. Isn’t the G-spot shaped like a kidney bean? The mind boggles.
David W. Bartoo @ 299
I think it would be an interesting thing to try to talk about. (Sorry for getting back late to this…I’ve been in and out, and missed your comment.)
Ed*ard Teller @ 295
I totally agree with you. I think this place is on the vanguard of something very important. We are community without seeing each other (mostly)…we share thoughts and feelings and sometimes free associate with each other. We regress in ways that are creative and sometimes in ways that are hurtful. It’s such an interesting, enriching and special place.
TeddySanFran @ 307
TeddySanFran; I can respect your position on this, BUT, it just seems pathetic to pick on Rice for who she sleeps with when there is such a target rich environment of things she has done, or at least enabled.
(by “bit player” I meant, well, do you think she actually drives policy? She’s a flunky, not a leader, I’m just saying.)
Theoretically — theocratically — it doesn’t matter to Republicans that Condi lives with another woman, as long as they are not married, and do not have a civil union. I guess maybe it’s okay if they are uncivil.
Otherwise they constitute a threat to the institution of marriage. And who wants that in a Secretary of State? It’s… undiplomatic.
I have such a crush on that Condi stand in. My god she’s gorgeous.
kirk murphy @ 288
Kirk, maybe it’s just because I’m a lawyer, but I know that men get the short end of the stick in several common legal situations, and I think that is worthy of some discussion in what is an otherwise enlightened community. Why would your mind be closed to the possibility that after 50 years of female progress, there might not be some areas where things have gotten out of balance against some men?
Grren @ 314:
I wouldn’t call the way the Republican party has demonized gays and lesbians “pathetic.” I’d call it hypocritical and disgusting.
Sure there’s a “target rich environment” but let’s kick the bitch where she lives, OK?
No excuses, and no apologies.