So Alan Greenspan has a new book coming out on Monday. And it says nasty things about the Bush administration. Welcome to the club Alan – the club of Bush enablers who write books once they aren’t in power, in a pathetic attempt to pretend they weren’t culpable in Bush’s mess. But back when it mattered, back when you were in charge of the Fed, when you were lionized as the Maestro… oh, back then, when you could have actually, I don’t know, oh, done something concrete to oppose Bush’s policies, did you? No, no you didn’t.
Let’s see what Uncle Alan is saying in his book, say about tax cuts…
Though Mr. Greenspan does not admit he made a mistake, he shows remorse about how Republicans jumped on his endorsement of the 2001 tax cuts to push through unconditional cuts without any safeguards against surprises. He recounts how Mr. Rubin and Senator Kent Conrad, Democrat of North Dakota, begged him to hold off on an endorsement because of how it would be perceived.
“It turned out that Conrad and Rubin were right,” he acknowledges glumly. He says Republican leaders in Congress made a grievous error in spending whatever it took to ensure a permanent Republican majority…
…Today, Mr. Greenspan is indignant and chagrined about his role in the Bush tax cuts. “I’d have given the same testimony if Al Gore had been president,” he writes, complaining that his words had been distorted by supporters and opponents of the cuts.
How precious is that. Take a look at the top chart – has the government ever reduced spending in recent history? Greenspan can’t claim economic illiteracy. He knew that. Yet he shilled for tax cuts anyway.
In fact, according to a 2001 story he made the endorsement after he knew what the details of the cut were and the amounts of it. We are supposed to believe the Maestro couldn’t do the math?
In testimony to the Senate Budget Committee, Greenspan declined to comment on President Bush’s $1.6 trillion, 10-year tax cut plan, saying a decision on the size of a cut was best left up to Congress and the political process. But the Fed chairman’s backing of tax cuts as economically sound likely will provide a boost to the new administration’s proposals.
And the tax cuts made a difference. As Krugman noted:
Why, then, do we face the prospect of huge deficits as far as the eye can see? Part of the answer is the surge in defense and homeland security spending. The main reason for deficits, however, is that revenues have plunged. Federal tax receipts as a share of national income are now at their lowest level since 1950.
Of course, most people don’t feel that their taxes have fallen sharply. And they’re right: taxes that fall mainly on middle-income Americans, like the payroll tax, are still near historic highs. The decline in revenue has come almost entirely from taxes that are mostly paid by the richest 5 percent of families: the personal income tax and the corporate profits tax. These taxes combined now take a smaller share of national income than in any year since World War II.
The economist Kash, likewise did the numbers a couple years back (chart below):
The following chart shows what this means for the budget deficit. The blue bars show the Bush administration’s most recent budget deficit forecast – the one that they were crowing about today. The orange bars show the budget forecast if the Bush tax cuts had never happened, according to the estimates by the Congressional Budget Office, calculated by simply summing the CBO’s estimates of the revenue effects of each of the Bush tax cuts. The purple bars show what the budget deficit would have been without the Bush tax cuts, even if you believe the supply-siders and use the JCT’s “dynamic scoring”, which assumes that without the tax cuts the economy would have grown more slowly.
Are you surprised by this? Of course you aren’t. So why was Greenspan surprised? The answer comes back to the standard answer when dealing with the Bush administration – either he was a fool, or he was an ideological hack, or he was stupid. I don’t think Greenspan’s stupid, but his argument is essentially that he was a fool. Personally I don’t think he was a fool, or stupid, I think the tax cuts are exactly what the Randian disciple Greenspan wanted. As the NY Times notes:
Shortly after “Atlas Shrugged” was published in 1957, Mr. Greenspan wrote a letter to The New York Times to counter a critic’s comment that “the book was written out of hate.” Mr. Greenspan wrote: “ ‘Atlas Shrugged’ is a celebration of life and happiness. Justice is unrelenting. Creative individuals and undeviating purpose and rationality achieve joy and fulfillment. Parasites who persistently avoid either purpose or reason perish as they should.”
Randians generally figure that any money you got, you got all on your own, and you therefore deserve all of it. The government is a leech for taking it away to give to less productive people, because rich people are generally the most productive contributors and should not be disincentivised from working hard. Tax cuts on the rich are a very Randian thing to do. And so Greenspan backed them.
Greenspan also was in charge of the “Greenspan Commission” whose recommendations formed the basis for the 1983 changes to Social Security meant to save SS and make it build up a reserve of cash to deal with the baby boomer retirement. And, in fact, Greenspan did a good job, and the bill did what it was advertised to. SS, if left alone, will not run out of money before most of the Boomers are dead a good 30 or more years from now. Of course, being Greenspan how he did it was to raise the amount the poor and middle class donate and to not hit the rich hard (in fact the taxation is capped above a certain level and applies only to wage income) . The tax was immensely regressive, and because the money was leant to the federal government, it also allowed immense amounts of pork.
As Dean Baker notes, this is important because in 2004 Greenspan wanted to cut Social Security…
Two weeks ago Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan testified before the Senate Budget Committee about the state of the economy. He expressed concern about the budget deficit and suggested that cutting Social Security might be a good way to reduce the size of the deficit.
It is worth noting that Social Security is currently running a large surplus and is projected to continue to run annual surpluses for more than two decades into the future. The Social Security trustees projections show that the fund’s trust will be able to support all scheduled benefit payments for nearly forty years into the future. If Social Security benefits are cut, without any corresponding reduction in the tax rate (which is exactly Mr. Greenspan’s recommendation), then this would mean that Social Security taxes are being used to finance the general budget, not Social Security.
So, let’s do the arithmetic. If SS taxes became used not for SS, but for the general budget, that would mean the tax cuts that Greenspan shilled for in 2001 and were in large part responsible for the deficit – tax cuts that benefited the rich mostly – would be made up mostly by a highly regressive tax that hits the working and middle classes much harder than the affluent – let alone the rich. Again, the pattern is clear – soak the poor, spare the rich. They’re more productive, doncha know. Middle class and working class people are leeches.
But we aren’t finished with Greenspan’s ideological support for the worst sort of Bush administration economic policies. Oh no. Let’s talk about the housing bubble and the sub-prime crisis…
Mr. Greenspan writes briefly about what may become a more troubling legacy, the housing bubble, and now the bust, that was fueled by low interest rates and risky mortgages in the last six years.
Some economists argue that Mr. Greenspan deserves considerable blame, because the Fed slashed interest rates to rock-bottom lows and kept them there for three years after the stock market collapse and the recession in 2001.
The Fed was “a prime culprit in creating the crisis,” wrote Steve Forbes, publisher of Forbes magazine, in a just-published commentary. But other economists, including critics of Mr. Greenspan, say the housing bubble resulted from much broader forces, including a dramatic drop of interest rates around the world and an explosion of mortgages that required no money down, no income verification and deceptively low initial teaser rates.
Mr. Greenspan generically defends the Fed’s action, writing: “I believed then, as now, that the benefits of broadened home ownership are worth the risk. Protection of property rights, so critical to a market economy, requires a critical mass of owners to sustain political support.”
Now, it’s definitely true that the sub-prime mess and the housing bubble weren’t just caused by Fed policy. But it’s also true that those 3 years at generational lows certainly kick-started it, gestated and got it growing at a ferocious rate. I was writing about the coming housing bubble back in 2002 (on the old Atlantic Monthly forums) – it was clear what the policies would do. And Greenspan knew too – he implicitly admits it above with his talk about how wonderful more home ownership would be because it would help increase property rights by altering politics. Property rights, of course, are another Randian bugaboo. Not that they aren’t important, but there’s a reason why they aren’t in the Constitution, why governments are allowed to seize property, and so on. Greenspan kept rates low longer than made sense due to ideological reasons. And he pushed it hard.
Speaking personally, what respect I had for Greenspan turned to contempt when he pushed variable rate mortgages in early 2004, with these words:
Calculations by market analysts of the “option-adjusted spread” on mortgages suggest that the cost of these benefits conferred by fixed-rate mortgages can range from 0.5 percent to 1.2 percent, raising homeowners’ annual after-tax mortgage payments by several thousand dollars. Indeed, recent research within the Federal Reserve suggests that many homeowners might have saved tens of thousands of dollars had they held adjustable-rate mortgages rather than fixed-rate mortgages during the past decade, though this would not have been the case, of course, had interest rates trended sharply upward.
Uh huh. Except, of course, that “when” you do things matters. In early 2004 interest rates were at, ummm, generational, let alone decade long, lows. They weren’t going to get lower. Suggesting that variable rate mortgages would be a better idea, even with caveats, was immensely irresponsible and even cruel. Greenspan’s public repuation was still sky high, and one can imagine that ordinary Americans would have thought that Uncle Alan knew what he was talking about and wouldn’t steer them wrong.
Uncle Alan, Greenspan, the Maestro, was an ideologically driven central banker. Working with Clinton and Rubin he had generally good results, but as soon as the lead sled dogs were gone, the Maestro lost his way. His mistakes – keeping interest rates low too long, encouraging tax cuts, ignoring the growing housing bubble and indeed encouraging it were symptoms of his strong ideological bias, which was also demonstrated in his suggestion to slash Social Security when it was not in significant difficulty (bankruptcy 40 years out is not a “crisis”, especially given how economic forecasting works).
Greenspan was never “the Maestro”. He was certainly a technically competent Fed Chairman, and no one can take that away from him. But presented with the opportunity to shill for his ideology, he chose ideology over economic sense and ignored the numbers time and time and time again in order to aid the Bush administration’s policy goals.
For him, now, to say that he somehow didn’t mean it, or that he was, behind the scenes, urging caution, or that he was hoodwinked, is sophistry of the most pathetic kind. He was not economically naive. He had the skills not to be taken in. If he was taken in, he was taken in because he wanted to be taken in. And right up to 2004 he can be seen, having not learned his lesson, even as Bush had vetoed no spending bills at all, still using his reputation to try and help push through Bush administration policies.
There have been a lot of people writing books and articles of late, in which they throw Bush over the bus in an attempt to save their reputation. (Colin Powell, are you listening?) In almost every case, they did nothing when they had the power; had the influence; had the opportunity to actually made a difference.
Greenspan is nothing but another rat fleeing the sinking S.S. Bush in an attempt to save his reputation for posterity. He doesn’t deserve space on the life raft. Men like Treasury Secretary O’Neill, who wrote their books while it still mattered, when it still took guts, when it might have made a difference; they deserve a hand up. Greenspan deserves to go down with the ship.
Related posts:
- Seance on Wall Street
- Hey Blue Dogs: It’s Time For The Rich to Pay Back Those Tax Loans
- CBO Director Elmendorf Calls “Bending the Cost Curve” a Meaningless Evaluation
- Democratic Health Care Holdouts Worry the Rich Are Taxed Too Much
- Baucus Bill Automatically Cuts Exchange Subsidies to Avoid Early Year Deficits





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

Gracious these posts are coming fast and furious!
Zed!
tres
Congrats Laura!
(((((((Ian!)))))))
I remember feeling betrayed when Clinton “moved to the middle” in his economic policy. Those seem like innocent times now.
I have to leave now, after commenting in LHP’s post and lurking through Siun’s. Just an observation on the day: Our beautiful world and all the lovelies in it are at risk now. And we can hold each other by the throats and hold each other in contempt and yak without solutions while falling into the abyss. Or we can figure out how to turn side by side and work together. Maybe we’ll fail anyway. But I prefer leaping to falling.
Greenspan seems more a numbers man than a hearts and minds guy.
His technical abilities were useful for Bush. He just never seemed to notice the ideological skewing of the policies that he could technically ‘pull off.’
Money is a zero-sum game – Greenspan let Bush heavily populate the Losers’ side of that equation in favor of the few.
I doubt if much of his book will show a connection to the every day man and woman on the street, either.
I will not buy books written by Alan Greenspan or Colin Powell.
Very instructive post, thank you Ian.
Ian;
Most excellent post!
So many ‘legacy’ conscious folk, although conscience, having eluded them in the past, seems no more in vogue at present. Ah, the self-serving elite, how noble, how humble
how quickly eclipsed . . . how ultimately
pathetic are the lot entire of them.
I suppose it’s Israel’s fault too.
Just kidding. I haven’t yet read the post, but I am eager to get away from the discussion downstairs, and have my morning coffee.
Paul O’Neil claims that he and Greenspan were both against the tax cuts because the surplus that existed then were necesary to fund a privatization of social security- which both favored.
Greenspan no doubt wanted the Gooper administration to succeed- and may have been more aggressive in monetary policy than circumstances warranted in order to put a warm face on the idiot- if so- he’s responsible for what’s about to happen—-the product of euphoria.
If I had only invested my $300 tax refund gift from the chief-of-chimps of 2001 (or was it 2002) in Wall Street I ‘d bet I’d be sitting pretty now in some million dollar teardown in a trendy neighborhood.
These posts are so important because so much is hidden from us in terms of the economy. thanks!
I think the time to contemplate one’s legacy is at the moment one has to make a decision between what’s right to do and what’s not. Later, all you can do is make excuses.
Some of us weren’t fooled into thinking we could afford $1.2 houses, although I was assured by two Realtors it would be no problem…I guess my Dad being raised during the depression did have some effect on me after all.
Social Security is the only hedge of working people who have no “retirement benefits” nor the adequate means of saving enough money to feed and shelter themselves in old age.
This would be most people in the private sector who have worked mostly for wages, not including any coverage for medical expenses.
The fact that too many people in this category bought into the Reagan Fantasy World and continued to be led down a sub-rosy path since has left us with too many elderly who are now left in the dark to freeze. Something that was also proposed back in the day that we should do to “Arabs.”
I guess the Book Of the Week Bashing Bush will continue apace. Or is it Two Books a Week? Or more?
Let it flow and flow. Like the levees that have cracked. I hope Bush and his kind drown in the bathtub under this river of sad truths.
radiofreewill @ 7
It’s more Greenspan being a follower of Ayn Rand. In fact, its been alleged that he was a lover of hers(have to keep it clean for the kiddies).
Lets put it all into a pie chart. Lets show what the American people have realized under the Bush Administration. And make it look like a real pie. Americans like pies.
rwcole @ 13
fucking, eh! he’s responsible…and you can keep his wife off the raft, too! great post Ian!
rwcole @ 13
Greenspan doubtless worries that history shall not judge him as either astute or as a long-range visionary. Expediency, does, alas, have its ‘cost.’
rwcole @ 13
Bill Fleckenstein has a great article about Greenspan. His Ayn Rand tendencies show right through.
http://articles.moneycentral.m…..ilout.aspx
rwcole @ 12
This is true, although in fairness it should be pointed out that O’Neill had a number of creative, innovative solutions to SS’s long-term viability issues-but I suspect he was just a little too reality-based.
Thanks for another excellent post, Ian. You have put into words and logic the vague, unformed-as-yet feeling I have had that Greenspan was trying to rewrite the past.
What are the consequences of fighting a 12 billion dollar per month war without raising taxes?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 24
I believe that would be bankruptcy.
What would John Kenneth Galbraith perhaps have to say today about the Bush economy?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
I hope it would begin with “Idiots!”
Oklahoma @ 19
You are in fine form today;
Perhaps folks could have their cake and eat it too, with pie … pie in the sky …
But the coming adventure with Iran should float all boats and rickety rafts as well.
Interesting times ahead, no doubt.
Just so long as we avoid the horror of recession, brought on by too hastily ending the adventure in Iraq.
Excellent and accurate post, recalling the history exactly as I witnessed it day to day as a devoted market trader.
But one thing was left out, which he also bears responsibility for. When Greenie lowered interest rates to near-zero in the early 90’s, and kept them there, that forced the most significant conservative investor pool remaining among us (bond investors having just learned that there was indeed real risk to bonds, and how they could be raped via the leveraged buy-out boom which turned corporate bonds to toilet paper overnight), i.e., the passbook and money market crowd, to throw their money into the stock market in a desparate attempt to get a return in excess of 1/4% a year (remember that?). That new, forced flow of money set up the stock market bubble of the 90’s that collapsed in 2000, and you can be sure that very few of those unsophisticated passbook savers were astute enough to get out when the smart money did. His actions insured that the only “new money” left in the system would belong to those who didn’t even trust banks, and kept their money under their mattresses at 0% interest. And if he could have figured out a way to get that “mattress money” into the market to be skimmed off by the smart guys, he would have done that, too.
Now, the money supply as measured by what used to be known as the M3 measure, but is no longer officially reported as such,is being increased at a rate of 11-13% per year, which directly grafts that amount of inflation onto the “official” inflation rate as measured by the CPI, thereby relentlessly degrading the dollar and making an empty farce of the ostensible rise in stock market prices. The true value of the dollar has declined by some 60% during the Bush years. In fact, the only beneficiaries of this policy are those who thrive on international trade, and the biggest victims are those who make their money domestically. Sound familiar? The beat goes on, and on, and on. Separate the little guy from his money, take away his future.
Excellent post, Ian. Colin Powell is another “company man” who never criticized his boss while he worked for him.
Lots of pressure now for the fed to lower interest rates back down to the level that caused the bubble in the first place- Clusterfuck’s legacy may depend on it…the recession must not begin until he leaves office.
David Bartoo, @28: “Adventure” in Iran? I wouldn’t call the death of thousands of people an adventure.
Clusterfuck did such a good job with the economy that Greensan was forced to reduce the interest rates he controlled to near zero to keep the ship from running aground.
Greenspan got out just in time- Bernanke will now be blamed by the wingnuts for the Clusterfuck recession.
Because of this lovely housing market I will not be able to sell my home which is about to have a 4 lane highway running in front of it. There are a LOT of those 1.5 million dollar McMansions sitting all around me,empty and they keep building more of those to go with the empty or half empty retail and office parks that are being built wherever there aren’t McMansions. WTF is wrong with people??
I can’t sell my house for what I’ve invested into rennovating it,who’s gonna buy it to live in with a 4 lane hwy zipping by? Developers won’t give me what the place is worth either,so now what?
Economics is obtuse on purpose so it makes you feel stupid and intimidated. I hope Greenspan gets stuck in hell with his pal Ayn.
White House To Smear Greenspan.
s/!
karen allen @ 31
Please forgive my snarky1
Little george will certainly consider it an adventure, perhaps he can dress up in his play clothes again.
No, it will be unmitigated horror and catastrophe! It should not be allowed to happen. But reason and humanity seem in very short supply in certain places.
As I said over at Watertiger’s place when she was snarkin’ on Alan:
toby martin @ 29
Yeah, Greenspan was a one trick pony – expand money supply; expand money supply; expand money supply.
For a much more detailed economic analysis of what Greenie did, and what it’s going to mean to everyone, Stirling just put up an article that people may wish to read.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
He would be speechless.
radiofreewill @ 4
Dang! I just got here.
First – fuck Alan Greenspan!
What’s up with Laura?
Breaking OJ…
Multiple felony charges including robbery with a deadly weapon…
Shorter Alan Greenspan: “Ooops!”
If you have not seen the film “No end in Sight” go see it. Not much you probably don’t all ready know about Iraq, but powerful film that every American should see.
Trailer
http://www.noendinsightmovie.com/
Thank you, Ian. I remember staring at the $500. check signed by W and thinking about what I should do with it. I thought about sending it back to the treasury with a note about what a stupid idea it was and asking for an accounting of what it actually cost to prepare and send the checks. Ultimately, I deposited it and put it into a Roth.
Oh my, I can’t help laughing at that.
Her fictional heroes, as I recall, are all tall, dark, handsome silent types, not a gnarly old toad amongst them.
sona @ 40
I adore Mr. Galbraith. Speechless? Perhaps you are right. Now that would be something to see. ;0)
Cozumel @ 42
That should suck the oxygen out of the MSM for at least a week.
Anna Parenna @ 46
Yuck! Both of them….yuck.
Loo Hoo. @ 45
Shoulda split the difference-deposit the check and then send the note to the Treasury anyway. :-)
anangryoldbroad @ 35
Economics is not obtuse – it’s simply a study of human behaviour about the organisation of the production-distribution-consumption cycle.
What is obtuse is the triumph of normative ideological persuasions over empirically validated rationales.
allan_in_upstate @ 48
All OJ, all the time. No doubt ; )
Mr. Geenspan, you have much to answer for.
America pleased to see yesterday that the Michigan losers kicked the shit out of the Notre Dame losers- in a monumental reminder that past performance is no guarantee of future success.
America was pretty easily bribed in the early Bush years. a $500.00 check did if for most.
Funny how the refunds came because ‘America was doing so well’.
Then the Bush revisionists said that the economy was in a recession when he took office.
Which is it? The economy was so great we needed refunds or the economy was in a Clinton induced recession?
-GSD
Ian:
Thanks for link to Stirling.
Economics is not, at least for the most part, an empirical study..
As I recall, that early check was actually from the dems- Clusterfuck went along with it. That was the dem approach to battling impending recession- Clusterfucks big money gifts were HIS way.
War in the Middle East or another slow Bronco chase with OJ holding a gun to his own head, a la Cleavon Little in Blazing Saddles.
What story will the media follow?
-GSD
Thank you Ian!
Clusterfuck’s in a Bronco with a gun to his head- but he calls it a victory lap.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 47
Speechless because I cannot imagine JKG ever being apoplectic and I too adored, and still do, JKG.
GSD @ 59
Depends on what Brittany does this week, doncha think?
Who can imagine a notable today ridin around in a fuckin Bronco- how unfuckingooper is that?
Thanks Ian for your excellent post – best reporting I’ve evah read on Greenspan. Now if only Mrs. Greenspan would retire or be retired from NBC sooner than later. Especially appreciate you sparing any temptation I would have getting his book at the library.
And thanks too to Kathleen for reminding us to see “No End in Sight” and the trailer linky at 44.
rwcole @ 57
Economics hypotheses rely on empirical validation.
sona @ 51
A troll can’t even lurk without being slandered!
Here’s to you Ayn…
Economics is the blood of empiricism. Culture is the vampire that controlls the blood supply for its own survival.
Great post, Ian. Ayn Rand may have been an idol of Greenspan’s but she was totally wrong about human nature. My father was a great disciple of hers for years,too, but when it came time to divide his estate, the bulk went to the kids who weren’t as successful, effectively “punishing” those who were, according to Ms. Rand, something he would have railed against only a few years earlier. But then Dad started thinking about real human problems instead of theories… and “took from each according to his abilities and gave to each, according to his needs.”
rwcole @ 63
L.O.L.!
Blood and Oil
http://www.informationclearing…..e18389.htm
Michael Klare on the Internal War For Control of Iraq’s Oil
Democracy Now!
We speak with Michael Klare, author of “Blood and Oil: The Dangers and Consequences of America’s Growing Dependency on Imported Petroleum.” Klare says, “There’s a second war underway in Iraq that’s a war for the control of the oil wealth. That’s a war that is pitting Kurds against the Arabs of the country, Shiites against Sunnis, and Shiite against Shiite. Because eventually the Americans are going to leave and the people of Iraq know this.”
CLICK PLAY TO LISTEN
David W. Bartoo @ 56
thanks, thank you…
*In a just world Fred Goldman would take the money from the If I Did It book and take out a hit on OJ Simpson.
-GSD
*I am not actually inciting Fred to violence.
but, butthead cheeknee said the americun lifestyle was not negotiable…
it is now you fucking morons!
Stopping the Next War/ Pat Buchanan
http://www.informationclearing…..e18379.htm
petwrecker @ 72
i thought it was LBJ who combined ss with general budget. do i have that wrong?
sona @ 66
Mmmmm. A lot of economics is done with models and never really verified. It’s very hard to do proper experiments in economics and hold all the variales even but one, and so on. So you’re left with statistical tools which don’t always provide the necessary clarity. I would say there are very few “laws” in economics, and even those which are called laws tend to have exceptions or are in doubt.
And economics as it is applied on a practical level is often even less scientific than that.
However, Economics does have things to say that are useful to us; it does (generally) try to look to the economy itself to see if theses work out – it’s not useless. But it’s also a very young field in many respects, and because of the difficulty of what you’re studying, it is far from, say “physics”.
As the old joke goes, if you’re a good economist and you die – you come back as a physicist. If you’re a bad one, you come back as a sociologist. As Krugman pointed out, one way of looking at that is because sociology is even harder than economics.
Economics wants to be a science. Sometimes it succeeds. Too often economists mistake “using math” as the same as “doing science”.
Economics is a social science discipline and a such is a study of human behaviour. A sense of history is an important ingredient in understanding human behaviour and however mathematical tertiary economics courses become, all economic theories are validated not by the complexity of the mathematics involved but by empirical evidence of how humans actually behave in given situations. That behaviour always carries a lot of historical and cultural baggage.
sona
Seems to me that economists say “other things being equal- these two variables out of a thousand interact like THIS- but then other things are NEVER equal and one can never isolate the two variables- so it’s an odd sort of hypothesizing- if it’s hypothisizing at all.
More like providing a framework and vocabulary for discussion sometimes.
Some of the “truths” border on the tautological” (Think of the Laffer Curve”).
Still it’s a lot of fun- but empirical? I wouldn’t say so.
selise @ 76
good question? for Ian?
Shorter Greenspan.
No one could have known.
-GSD
breaking news – at least for moi -Keith had an emergency appendectomy at a NY hospital Friday evening. ;~(
GSD @ 80
tee hee
Wow, excellent piece Ian. Thanks much for pulling this together.
GSD @ 81
Unless their head’s were so far up someone else’s a** that it was coming out of the mouth…
good for you….don’t let greenspan think he can george tenet his way out of his accountability. they’re all going to the hague.
The Rand neo-con economist operate on the principle that money in the economy is a Zero sum game. If the poor-middle class have more money then the Rich MUST have less which is proven wrong by the Clinton economy where all boats were risen.
The trickle down economy does not consider that the main activity of money is circulation. I work and am paid for my labor (middle class) and I pay taxes, my bills, utilities and buy stuff. By doing this, money continually circulates creating and paying for jobs and goods which keeps the economy going.
Now when a Uber Rich gets paid, that money gets stashed somewhere and never sees the light of day. OR use the money to push for policies to make sure they get more money.
OT.
France’s foreign minister says the world must prepare for the worst.
War with Iran.
The drumbeat gets louder by the day.
-GSD
Ian Welsh @ 77
Prophecy I would say. Definitely not a science. Kinda like weather forecasting. You get a whole lot of information and then just guess.
Well, gosh, Ian. I mean, this is the same guy that issued a letter to the Feds that were investigating Lincoln Savings, Keating’s CA bank, stating that he’s reviewed the bank’s papers and found them to be solvent. I believe this was after the bank had issued junk bonds and someone in his organization wrote a memo to the salespeople that their targets should be “the weak, the meek and the ignorant.” He might as well have added that he found Lincoln Savings to be solvent, as expected, since they paid his bill. What did people expect of someone with that background?
Okay, Ian. It’s January 2009, and the new Dem President gathers her Council of Economic Adivsers, and you’re on the team. What’s the most important thing you need to tell the President at that meeting? And I hope it’s not, “Our long national nightmare is about to get worse.”
Fat Cats hated Bill Clinton b/c he made them pay taxes. One FC told me that Bill Clinton cost him $100,000.00 in a one time tax on Fat Cats that Clinton used to pay down the the deficit.
These same FC’s (mostly R’s) have pocketed $100K a year for the past 7 fiscal years. So, in spite of a stagnant economy and devalued dollar, they’re doing ok. They will be snapping up repo houses soon and renting them to us. Bush’s ownership society.
rwc
What you refer to is the principle of ceteris paribus. That is because you cannot necessarily predict that which has not yet ocurred and may seem improbable at a given moment in time and as such unmeasurable. Its theories stand up or fall on observed and documented empirical evidence. These theories remain hypothetical unless empirical validation is forthcoming. Many economic propositions remain hypothetical because the ceteris paribus constraint limits their scope and humans can be unpredictable in the way they change the way the world works and in their ability to understand the forces that shape the world in which they interact with each other. The real problem lies with many economists pontificating about ‘laws’ when such ‘laws’ are human artefacts and their interpretation depends on cultural persuasions. Nevertheless, economics is an empirical social science – has always been and always will be.
nomolos @ 88
I once had an idea for a book comparing economics to old-time fortunetelling – Etruscean haruspices digging around in intestines and so on. That stuff was complicated – there were texts on what to look for, how to take everything into account, and it served a useful social function (which the Romans explicitly recognized). Not a science though.
I believe someone else already wrote it, though I forget the title.
However I’m not that cynical about economics these days. Still, I think of it as much art as science.
Ayn Rand appeals to those clever-but-alienated junior-high-school kids who want to get revenge on all the other kids who beat them up and stole their lunch money. Fortunately, most kids like that gain both friends and a sense of empathy, and so usually grow out of the Rand phase by the time they hit college. Anyone who’s still a Randroid after college is either a trustafarian or an emotional adolescent (or both)
hackworth @ 92
Yup, yup and yup.
When I click on the chart above, it shows I have the zed. Why is that or is it just for me?
No surplus left behind.
Scarecrow @ 90
Heh. That’s a post.
But:
1) it’s going to get worse.
2) you need to get energy onto a capital basis
3) you need to raise the savings rate
4) We need to ease out of the triangular trade and bring an end to Asian mercantalism industrializing on us at this pace.
5) There’s going to be a recession, we may as well get it over with and do it hard.
6) we need to reform the tax code to strong progressivity with few loopholes.
7) we need to bring money control back under control of the fed, and make the fed control it
8) we need to bring capital movement back under control
9) We need to make it so that you get rich by building things, inventing things and working in the real economy, not in the financial economy
10) We need to spread money out more evenly, and destroy the great concentration.
11) We need to rewrite IP laws.
12) we need to break up the great oligpolies and monopolies
13) we need single payor health care to free up 5% of GDP
14) We need to open up free spectrum to everyone and force access to high speed lines
15) we need to revamp regulations to mandate outcomes not methods and thus reduce barriers of entry
most important – you’d better win re-election and have your successor win election, because this is the long haul and you need to be FDR.
(And that’s just off the top of my head. The US really does have so many basic economic problems that it’s mind-boggling)
Hagel does the truth
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
PS to 93 – economic theories balance more than two variables – this is why matrix algebra and vector analysis is so important in tertiary economics courses. Secondary level courses rely on two dimensional graphs but become too simplistic beyond that level.
ccmask @ 97
I saw the zed for you, too!
ccmask @ 97
The chart goes to a page. You can comment on the page with just chart, but generally no one does – it has its own comment field.
Ann in AZ @ 90
Are you intimating that ’span has no principles? That he is a shill, a carnival barker – a hack for sale to the highest bidder?
Ian Welsh @ 99
How about a series of posts for the, uh, Sunday afternoon economic forum?
I’ve heard it said that Americans vote their pocket-book. Americans; get it ‘together’. In a little over a year you will have a chance to do just that.
Ian Welsh @ 103
Okay. I thought that was strange because I think there were about 50 comments when I came in. But since my eyes are bad, I clicked on the chart to see better, and I thought it was a new thread or something. Haha. Two zeds on one thread.
Scarecrow @ 105
It’s not a bad list of posts actually. Will think on it. Some of that stuff I’ve discussed already, but doing it as “this is what needs to be done, and here’s why” isn’t a bad format.
Who is America’s best hope for taking care of this nations health care needs in 2008?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 109
So far, among the frontrunners, Edwards has the best plan. Hilary has one coming out Monday, we’ll see what it’s like.
None of them are really biting the bullet and just doing medicare for all. Which is a mistake. But so far- best plan =Edwards.
I would like to see the Mitchell Greenspans interviewed at the same time re the Ira/oil questions since Mitchell is a big ole Shrubian apologist. A lifetime of sucking up to as-holes she also thinks the world of the late Mayor Rizzo.
hackworth @ 104
Was then, is now, and always will be! I’ve never trusted that guy since the day he took Paul Volker’s place. (He did take Paul Volker’s place, didn’t he?)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 109
Kucinich
Ian: How do you think Greenspan is going to get treated by administration for exposing the oil lie? Do you think this will effect Andrea’s spot on NBC & Tweety’s show at all?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 109
We all know the answer. Its Dennis Kucinich. He’s the only one advocating single payer. All the rest are afraid of the Insurance company, medical and pharma lobbies.
Mr. Greenspan and his lovely and equally Bush-enabling wife, Ms. Mitchell, need to STFU!
Republican leaders in Congress made a grievous error in spending whatever it took to ensure a permanent Republican majority…
“……..can’t buy me luv…..”
Doesn’t really matter much what Kucinich is advocating— my dog has a better chance of becoming president.
When Clinton left office, the ten-year budget balance was officially projected to be a surplus of $5.6 trillion. By 2002, all but $1.o trillion of the ten-year surplus had vanished … with nothing done about Medicare or Social Security. A year later, the ten-year fiscal balance was in $1.4 trillion deficit.
So much for the salad years of Alan Greenspan.
New Post is ready — Book Salon with Linda and Rick Perlstein.
Ian, thanks for this post – I learned a lot.
Thanks also for your “to-do” list: love it.
Pardon my dense, but I’ve no comprehension of #2.
Could you enlighten me?
Thanks ;)
Yes Kucinich is the only one advocating single payer health plan the issue is REALITY vs. Dream.
Edwards explained at a private house party, he would love to go directly to the single payer type but knows the reality of the level of resistance of ANY type of “Healthcare for All” plan. By having it like the Medicaid plans which are bid out to the insurance companies, hoping to reduce the resistance.
Edwards big hope is that the majority of Americans CHOOSE the government run Medicare type plan over the private run plans which will show the industry they are toast. Start here and move to the single payer plan.
Thank you, Ian, I truely appreciate your articles, and they thoroughly explain what my instincts have told me all along: The new name for Reaganomics is “EnronEconomics.”
Instead of Enron sending paper ‘oil and gas’ around the U.S., the U.S. Treasury is sending paper ‘dollars’ around the world. I expect there will come a time when we’ll see the ‘wheelbarrows’ come out to carry the paper to exchange for a loaf of bread.
Interesting times ahead!
James Eaton @ 116
An oldy but goldy from Ms. Mitchell.
ccmask @ 114
They’ll attack him. They always do. Not sure what the line of attack will be. “Tired old man past his prime who is trying to blame his mistake in creating the housing bubble on us” is the one I’d use.
Not sure about Andrea. I think she’ll stay. The Bush admin is already yesterday, people are jockying for post-Bush.
“The Bush admin is already yesterday”
Yep–a VERY important point- and getting more important daily.
Once he runs out of stuff in his goody bag- it’s all over for this idiot.
kirk murphy @ 121
Right now we get most of our energy by digging it up or otherwise exploiting the environment. We need to be able to “make” energy from materials that aren’t supply bottlenecked. Not only does it get you energy “independence”, but it makes possible real growth again because you aren’t required to create an economy around not using too much of a bottleneck resource.
Ian Welsh @ 39
M3 reports, anyone?
Ian Welsh @ 127
Thanks – you made that very understandable.
I’m grateful for your gifts.
john in sacramento @ 128
They were resumed?
kirk murphy @ 130
Not as far as I know
john in sacramento @ 131
I believe some third party is putting them together – the constituents are still available, but it’s a fair bit of work. Not sure who it is though.
This article has somet interesting stuff on M3.
john in sacramento @ 128
Thanks for this link, John. Everyone should read this. It’s a little complicated, but anayone can get the gist, and this is the factor that will shape the future of our economy.
And much thanks to Ian, for illuminating important issues that will never be presented in a serious way by the MSM. Knowledge of how things really work is the best defense.
Ian Welsh @ 132
Yes, somebody is reconstituting the essential components, and it gets occasional mention on CNBC, but the reconstitution process is well beyond the capabilities of most of us, including me.
You might be a big fish in the Agonist’s little pond and feeling all high and mighty in echo chambers like FDL, but you wouldn’t last 30 seconds in a debate with someone of Greenspan’s caliber.
selise @ 76
You got it right.
LBJ mortally wounded the best retirement program ever.
Chip @ 135
No, anyone would be lulled to sleep after only 20 seconds.
somewhere, a shoulder looks for the fallen.
“nowhere in sight. what a relief”
there are times you must do what your boss wants or goodbye paydays. nothing mysterious here. on the other hand, he’s no better than any other wage slave.
signed dnjdon, wage slave.
Note on that table-try:
http://static.firedoglake.com/…..700599.jpg
Laura Doty @ 6
It’s called closing down the Federal Reserve and going back to what the founding fathers called for. A US Treasury whose money could only be gold and silver coin, not fiat made legal tender through smoke and mirrors. The rest of the world doesn’t buy it anymore and the day for a total collapse of the banks that make up the Federal Reserve system is not far off.
Chip @ 135
Chippie me-boy, you need to get your hearing checked…again.
The echo you’re hearing comes from your own wingnut echo-chamber. Remember, y’all got one by submitting those 10 Cheetos proof-of-purchase thingies?
You do remember, don’t you Chipster? Or are you suffering from that dreaded Repug disease of Fredomasochism and can no longer recall?
An excellent post and something I have been thinking about for some time. I think Ian is spot on when he talks about their “pathetic attempt to pretend they weren’t culpable in Bush’s mess.”
What makes it so scary is how effective it has been. If that’s not scary enough this con job of cheerleaders selling themselves as critics will prevent us from avoiding the same mistakes in the future. The guilty especially the media (i.e. Matthews, Russert, NY Times and so many others) will be thought of as warriors as they turn against the war and the President only to be allowed to do it all over again in the future (i.e. Iran, etc).
Thank you and please keep up the great work. We, the readers know how much of an uphill battle you are facing and hope you keep plugging along. We are very grateful for the work you do.
Chip @ 135
Most of this stuff is just a matter of public record. There’s not much Greenspan can argue – he’s already admitted, for example, that the tax raises were a bad idea and he screwed up. What’s he going to argue? Is he going to argue that his SS changes weren’t regressive? He can’t – they were, it’s a FACT. That his reduction of SS benefits wouldn’t pay for tax cuts through a regressive tax? Again, it’s a FACT.
In any case I’d pass to someone who fundamentally agrees with me who has the deep economic background I lack. Perhaps Greenspan might wish to go no-holds barred with Paul Krugman? Or Stirling Newberry? Or Galbraith? Or Dean Baker?
Hahahahaha. When hell freezes over. Because FACTs are nasty things, and Greenspan doesn’t have them on his side.
nomolos @ 89
wow, really true for me. i majored in both eco and math because they were the “easiest pieces” (parphrasing, jack nicholson, in “five easy pieces” .
OT, The Prez has named his new AG pick…federal judge, Reagan appointee. Not Ted, thankfully.
Thanks for the post Ian. Great lessons here.
njdon @ 145
When I used to tutor math/science folks in social science and humanities courses I had to explain to them that it was much harder to be certain of good grades. In math, if you solve the problem and show the work you get full marks. Same in science. I’ve gotten 100% in the sciences and math. I never, ever, got 100% in social sciences and humanities courses. There’s not enough agreement on what’s right, there’s always another caveat/argument you could have included or person you could have cited etc…
It takes more work to do well in math or science. But it is easier to get good grades. A distinction few people get.
I know I’m long EPU’d but Excellent posts Ian. Greenspan is not the first and won’t be the last to try to rewrite his role in the BushCo debacle.
From wiki:
On September 16, 2007, FOX News reported that Mukasey would be declared the next Attorney General of the United States of America by President Bush on Monday, September, 17, 2007, according to the Associated Press.
Since retiring from the bench, Mukasey has made campaign contributions to Rudy Giuliani for president and Joe Lieberman for Senate. Mukasey is also listed on the Giuliani campaign’s Justice Advisory Committee.
snip
There won’t be a confirmation hearing?
Anna Parenna @ 46
In Greenspan’s defense, I will point out that he was a much younger gnarly toad at the time.
Since this would not have been a “recess” appointment of the AG, I think a hearing will be necessary; this is the W. pick to start the process.
Art @ 141
JFK tried to do something about that, but he was killed about 5 months later
Executive Order 11110
Maybe this is speculation, maybe not
this is a fine assessment of greenspan’s lack of character.
in my opinion, greenspan has always been, first and foremost, a republican political operative and only secondarily a public official.
in this way he is much like william rhenquist and, now, john roberts at the supreme court.
these folks are not just registered republicans, regular folk with conservative views;
they are republican party operatives.
with them, it’s always the needs of the party first: those of the nation, the fed, or the court, second.
Re: Roberts. And someone was writing, may have been here, that the real Robert’s appeal was not the social issues but his view of the very expanded, imperial executive powers. Guess he likes it that way.
I also wonder what Ms. Mitchell thinks about Mr. G. being so opinated about the people she covers.
Oh yes indeed, Ian. It was Feb. 23, 2004. Compared to this one statement, my disagreements with Greenspan about his exercise of monetary policy are narrow and technical. At the time he said it, while I had been talking to every mortgaged friend and relative about locking in the best fixed rate they could get asap, I really began to suspect at the least an amazing degree of irresponsibility; if anyone googles about for reaction to Greenspan’s speech of that day, they’ll find plenty of outrage and perplexity. But considering also his Fed’s regulatory silence on the mass embrace of textbook examples of predatory lending, it is hard to remain as benign as “irresponsibility” in one’s conclusions.
Bear in mind first that the Fed has regulatory authority over some of the primary and secondary lenders that were involved in pushing these loans, and also has both co-ordinating ability among the other financial regulators, and a formidable bully pulpit—the same bully pulpit that Greenspan used instead to encourage the toxic loan pushers.
And second, who is it that controls interest rate policy again?
It always struck me as very odd that Greenspan would not recognize the inflationary effect of huge budget deficits, with the government competing with private citizens and corporations for the same pool of funds. The massive deficit he (inadvertently, he claims) supported is also weakening the dollar, which in turn raises the interest rate the US must pay to attract foreign investors who have a well-founded fear that their investment will lose value in their local strengthening currency.
GSD @ 73
How do we know the Vegas job wasn’t a setup? It takes a particular type of stupid for a man to attempt to steal his own collectibles — and be in the same friggin’ town, when it’s done?
If Goldman went to the devil and asked for one more shot at putting OJ behind bars, I can’t say I’d blame him.
I just finished listening to the 60 Minutes interview of Greenspan, and came away frustrated at the number of essential questions that Leslie Stahl never asked, in keeping with the puff piece this was obviously negotiated to be.
In particular, this passage jumped out: When speaking of the record number of mortgage defaults resulting from Greenspan’s Fed policy, and the fact that he opposed a proposal from Fed board member Ed Gramlick to examine lending practices:
Greenspan: “I thought that it…one would not be capable of doing what he was suggesting”
Stahl: “What of sitting on them, of taking some regula – what?”
Greenspan: “Well I think not”
Stahl: “Even if you even looked into it?”‘
“Greenspan” “Well I..there’s nothing to look into particularly, because we knew that there was a number of such practices going on but it’s very difficult for banking regulators to deal with that.”
Stahl (in narration): “He insists there’s nothing he could have done to protect today’s plummeting home prices, and the fact that a million families have lost their homes, and many more could.”
So according to Greenspan, it was a practical problem – the difficulty of “dealing with” predatory lending practices by banking regulators – that stopped Greenspan from acting. It just couldn’t be done. How could anyone have stopped what could not be “dealt with”?
As is always the case when right-wing liminaries like Greenspan are interviewed, nothing in Stahl’s piece ever questioned the ideology behind Greenspan’s refusal to consider regulation. There was a brief mention of his acolyte status with Ayn Rand, but no dots were connected.
So the fact that Greenspan’s personal ideology, not economic theory, not sound fiscal discipline, not even best practices – just ideology – drove him to remain hands-off in the face of clearly dangerous, even fraudulent lending practices – that fact was buried by Stahl’s interview.
Another disgusting display of feigned ignorance by our complicit corporate media.
Oh well. At least the millions of American taxpayers who lose their homes because of Fed policies won’t blame Alan Greenspan.
just for the record:
unless my memory betrays me,
alan greenspan visited the george w. bush white house more often than he had any other white house – by leagues.
he was, i suspect, cozened by presidential attention and power.
uncle alan was a dope, was conned,
and was and is a republican political operative.
we have not heard yet what clinton thought of greenspan, and we won’t for a while.
but i doubt the admiration is reciprocal on clinton’s part.
What about Greenspan having raised interest rates a record number of times in 1999 and 2000, trying to “fight inflation” that nobody could see? Obviously, he was just a Republican hack, trying to tank the Clinton-Gore economic boom. It almost worked, because Gore almost lost the 2000 election, and Greenspan’s thumb on the economy dragged it down to where it was in range for JEB’s people and Scalia to do the rest.
Straight-up truth. Computer programmers know alllll about this one.
Phoenix Woman @ 95
And when Democats take the Presidency next year Greenspan will publicly call for fiscal stringency, something that is important only when Democrats run things.
I’ve heard him called Bubbles Greenspan. I think the name has a nice ring and I plan to keep using it.
Great post, thanks for the info.