(Please welcome author Linda Perlstein, author of Tested: One American School Struggles To Make the Grade and her fabulous brother Rick Perlstein to chat with us in the comments today — JH)
I’ve been a proud member of the FDL extended family for a couple of years now. (“Kobe is a big Rick Perlstein fan”, dammit!). Today, I’m proud to introduce you to a member of my immediate family: my little sis, Linda Perlstein.
For years, Linda was at the Washington Post as an education reporter. I used to love visiting her there, where I got to schmooze with the likes of David Broder (I kid you not!), even watch a superannuated Herblock shuffle past to sharpen his pencils (again: I kid you not). But I didn’t really get to see Linda in action. Like all great reporters—and Linda’s a great reporter—she did her most important work in the field. And for Linda, wherever possible, that meant in the classroom. You’d be surprised, or maybe not, at how many people who claim to speak as experts about our educational system spend little or no time in the classroom.
Linda’s deeply unsatisified with that fact. For her first book, Not Much Just Chillin’: The Hidden Lives of Middle Schoolers, she embedded herself in the classrooms (and after-school gymnastics classes, and student dinner tables, and faculty faculty lounge) of a middle class suburban school to unravel the mysteries of ‘tween culture. Mysteries like the way they answer the IM’ed “Whassup?”: “NMJC”—”not much just chillin.’” Which is, of course “a lie, a front, a shrug as old as adolescent angst.” What Linda did was report what was behind the front, and the results were enormously entertaining—and, to the middle class parents who still flock to her lectures, enormously useful.
I was really thrilled, though, when Linda told me about the next book she wanted to do. There has been a revolution in the American public education system, everyone knows that: thanks to No Child Left Behind, high-stakes testing now rules the roost. Reems upon reems of studies about high-stakes testing have been written, Linda knew. Her frustration, though, was that the “new world of school”—a phrase, if I recall correctly, Linda put in one of the draft subtitles— was a revolution in what happened in the classroom. And no one, it seemed, was systematically looking in on classrooms to see what that revolution looked like.
Characteristically, sis did exactly that. She did it, too, via a brilliant narrative contrivance. She found a school in Annapolis, Maryland full of underprivileged minority kids that scored surprisingly well on Maryland’s annual Maryland Standard Assessment (MSA) tests. Could Tyler Heights Elementary School keep up those scores a year later? What would the consequences for the everyday routines of education be in this very high-stakes quest?
Well, here was one. The principle’s supervisor did a walkthrough inspection to “‘zero in on the posted outcomes’–the daily objectives teachers wrote on the board for each subject. Writing objectives has become a big deal in schools. Teachers actually take classes in this—the more jargon the better, it seems: We will demonstrate the ability to perceive, perform, and respond to music” in music, Develop expressive and receptive vocabulary to begin to classify things in the home environment: in a kindergarten play kitchen.” Linda writes of that walkthrough:
Passing through the gym, where kindergartners wafted a colorful parachute in the air and scampered under it in turns, Leone said of the teacher, “I can’t see his goal.” In pre-kindergarten where Leone saw not only “sight words” like is and and but also the MSA scores displayed on the wall, she said, “I love the way these are all posted.” In fifth grade she was dismayed to find some of Mrs. Williams’s students sitting at their desks reading books while others finished a test. She encouraged McKnight to come up with a school-wide protocol for spending time after completing a test, one that didn’t include free reading.
So has No Child Left Behind turned our schools into a “fascist nightmare”? One of Tested‘s reviewers said exactly that. I know, however, that this review frustrated Linda enormously, because she sees the status quo ante—the world before NCLB—as rife with exactly the flaws the legislation seeks to fix: an indifference to accountability. She’s not anti-standarized testing. She’s struggling to find a middle ground, for more nuanced assessments.
Where that middle ground may be found would be an excellent topic for today’s discussion.



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Welcome Linda and Rick! So glad you could join us.
Linda! Welcome!!
I’d like to begin with the question on everyone’s mind:
Is. Our. Children. Learning?
OK. That was a joke. Here’s a real one. In an interview in USA Today, you said: “I wrote this book because school reforms intended to abolish a two-class system were in some ways exacerbating it. There’s one world where students pass the test as a matter of course and get to write poems, and another where children write paragraphs about poems.”
Tell us more about how school reforms have exacerbated the two-tier system.
Welcome, Rick and Linda!
Or should I say, “Woof!”
Hi Rick, hi Linda. Welcome and thanks for being here. Kobe is indeed a big fan.
Welcome, Linda and Rick. Thanks for coming.
I’d like to turn Rick’s question a little sideways: “What are our children learning, and how do you feel about that?”
I fear Linda thinks bloggers are weird, so I won’t tell her Kobe is a standard poodle. We’ll say Kobe is, um, Jane’s second cousin or something.
Lots of teachers in my family including my son..
Nothing wrong with standardized testing- and nothing wrong with establishing criteria to measure success by- but unfortunately, NCLB is way too simple minded (surprise).]
It measures only ONE thing- the percentage of students who meet minimum standards- then it throws EVERYTHING including the kitchen sink at that one narrow measure..
What’s the consequence? Those teachers under pressure aim ONLY at those children who are just slightly below standard to get them up within the year….
Forget the bright kids who will always pass the test anyway- forget the really slow ones who could NEVER pass it- forget anything that the test doesn’t test.
We have more than one problem in our educational system- and even if this thing were to be successful in its ONE goal- it would still leave 80 percent of the problems untouched…
We BADLY need more grad students in math and science- this program is unlikely to produce ANY.
It’s an example of what happens when narrow minded politicians take over the educational system- and fuck it up.
Rick Perlstein @ 3
Hello everyone, and thanks to Rick for hosting.
There is enormous pressure to do well on the annual state tests used to measure schools under No Child Left Behind. That pressure exists in the schools poor children attend, and in the ones rich kids attend. Some of what results looks the same in both types of schools, but it’s far more intense in low-income schools. So you see subjects that aren’t on the test ignored; skills (critical thinking) that aren’t on the test ignored; more time learning test-taking vocabulary than real-world vocabulary, and so on. The poor kids, the ones the law was designed to help, need those skills and subjects more than anyone else, though — if they don’t get it at school, they don’t have a great chance of getting it outside of school.
A nit: ream.
As the mother of two children who had learning disabilities, I am so glad that they graduated HS, graduated college or are attending college without having to pass these tests.
These tests would be a nightmare to my children. They were adopted from Korea at the age of 4 & 7, non-English speaking and with different learning disabilities. As far as I know, there is no exceptions here in AZ for kids that fall into this category.
rwcole @ 8
That definitely happens in schools. But even where children are being given enough attention, I am concerned about what kinds of attention. In the end, NCLB tests fourth-graders on fourth-grade material. Schools react accordingly, all year. So if your daughter is mildly retarded and reading on a first-grade level, she is going to be wasting her time getting metaphors and homonyms shoved down her gullet when she needs to be learning basic skills — because that is what fourth-graders are supposed to do on Day 51 in Whatever County. I will be explaining this issue more in an upcoming Washington Post op-ed piece.
New poster here, but have an interest. Is the emphasis on testing and training to the tests rather on learning? My concern – children being indoctrinated to believe that learning by rote is important, but developing skills i.e. thinking, developing ideas, critical path, etc; is not important.
Linda, we’ve talked about the way schools get scape-goated for what are in fact social problems: poverty, broken families. People act as if a school that does poorly on a test does so because it is a poor school–when it may have more to do with the fact that it’s simply in a poor neighborhood.
Can we fix the system to get around this fallacy? We all want better, more effective schools. But isn’t talking about schooling a way conservatives excuse not caring about the underlying social problems?
Linda, we’ve talked about the way schools get scape-goated for what are in fact social problems: poverty, broken families. People act as if a school that does poorly on a test does so because it is a poor school–when it may have more to do with the fact that it’s simply in a poor neighborhood.
Can we fix the system to get around this fallacy? We all want better, more effective schools. But isn’t talking about schooling a way conservatives excuse not caring about the underlying social problems?
GoodGrief @ 13
Yes, that’s fair to say, and something college professors are complaining about as well, when kids come to them with so few reasoning skills and the obsession with one right answer.
Had to laugh about NCLB the other day. Because of the PJ vs. State of Connecticut ruling, all children previously in self-contained classes are now being mainstreamed. Unfortunately, their paraprofessionals aren’t following them, and there is no way the few of us special ed teachers can possibly cover their ‘hours’ mandated on their IEP’s.
However, our NCLB issue is that their Connecticut Mastery Test scores will be counted as equal as their peers. We have several who can’t read – like they don’t know their letters – and are expected to take an on-grade level test. It really is beyond ridiculous.
Our teachers are excellent (they have to be, or they wouldn’t survive in our environment). NCLB asks for accountability, but it needs to reflect the learning levels and strengths of the students. Thoughts?
Rick Perlstein @ 15
Not sure what you are asking here. But yeah, this is a way more significant problem than anyone is willing to admit. It’s laughable to think that one federal policy can “fix” the schools. It’s also unfortunate to assume every school needs fixing — though of course there is room for improvement. At the most desperate schools in the most desperate communities, problems are so far beyond the reach of the educators to solve, though many try.
How do you feel about state efforts to allow some schools to offset test scores in tested subjects with progress in other no-tested areas? Is this necessary flexibility? Escaping accountability? How is it being used/abused?
Tell us more about the social problems the teachers in the school you wrote about have to deal with.
The punishing aspects of the policy are an example of human engineering done by idiots…
Supposedly- good behavior gets rewarded and poor behavior gets punished- but what REALLY happens is that SCHOOLS and TEACHERS get punished for having lower class kids- higher incidences of behavior problems- higher incidences of no native english ability- higher incidence of illiteracy at home, etc…
So the teachers who are good have a motivation to get OUT of schools that have these kids and run off to all white suburban districts- leaving the kids with the teachers who can’t move.
It’s reverse Darwinism- the unintended consequences are enormous- and in the end the poor kids will have the worst quality staff..
What a great idea! Who thought of THAT? Oh Clusterfuck? Kinda figures don’t it?
rwcole @ 8
This is my problem with how schools are working these days. I’m not a parent, so I don’t know the ins and outs of why it happens, but children at both ends of the mental spectrum are neglected. This strikes me as particularly tragic in the case of the smart children. Their minds are the most precious resource we have, and we’re wasting them by not teaching them as much as they’re able to absorb.
Sue @ 17
See my post #12. This is a huge problem, and one that none of the policymakers and politicians are willing to address. It’s not just about that one test being over a student’s head, it’s about everything the schools do in response all year. I do think teachers and principals share in the blame: They need to explain these problems to people, and have the courage to refuse to teach in ways they know aren’t best for children.
Scarecrow @ 19
A little of both. It’s not going to solve the fundamental problems of the law.
NCLB
A program invented by people who wish to destroy the public school system and substitute a voucher program to send kids to private for profit schools…
Is it working?
Linda Perlstein @ 23
This says good teachers must excel at civil disobedience — and risk their careers. Is that where we are?
I’m curious about the tests themselves. ARe they mostly multiple choice? How much room is there for short answers, long essays, fill in the blank, etc…?
jane hamsher @ 5
I always assumed that was because of the similarity in hairstyle.
I want to avoid asking about politics, but I can’t help it. What do you think of the theories–conspiracy theories?–that some of the conservative architects of NCLB hoped it would discredit public education as a whole, to accelerate the privatization of the system?
Rick Perlstein @ 29
And on that issue, has there been measurable increase in movement away from public to private schools?
rwcole @ 21
Are failed schools shut down? Isn’t that a huge waste of resources?
The R Party has not been shy about their contempt for public education. R’s do not want to pay to educate other peoples’ children.
If a child goes to a failing school, his parents are given a voucher and the child can use the voucher money to pay a private (often church-connected) school. Its a ponzi scheme.
I hope our new President will give NCLB the axe.
Linda Perlstein @ 23
And yet, these principals and teachers owe their budgets to these policymakers and politicians. Thus, any attempts to “explain these problems to people” gets painted as “you just don’t want to be held accountable” and they get threatened with further budget cuts and/or micromanaging.
Are we talking here about what makes good teaching from a bureaurocratic standpoint?
Good teaching is good teaching regardless of the audience.
Rick Perlstein @ 20
Well, last week one of the third-graders in my book was taken from the school in handcuffs, when he was having a violent tantrum that could not be stopped. Police told teachers they had been at his house the night before, because he was going crazy with a knife and slashing furniture. His mother is an abusive alcoholic (though because of horrific policy loopholes not abusive enough in the ways that lose you custody), his brother is institutionalized, his sister was a mother at 14.
Of the other kids in the main class I followed, one had to go into hiding after his mom was attacked by gang members in front of him, one’s dad was murdered, one went to live with an aunt who never bothered enrolling her in school. … There’s more I can’t think of right now.
What did the teachers at the school you write about think about NCLB? Did they think there was anything positive about it? Anything salvageable? Did they have any ideas about other things that could be done to help low-performing schools and students?
Scarecrow @ 26
Rick Perlstein @ 29
I would have pshawed that notion at the beginning of the administration but now think it is a legitimate question.
Also, somebody had to think through the logic at some point and realize kids with emotional problems, behavoral problems, learning disabilities, bad family situations, drug and alcohol problems and a host of others would get pushed out of the system in order for schools not to incur draconian funding penalties. Which is going to make just about every one of these problems worse. There had to be some real callous indifference at the onset not necessarily with regard to standardized testing per se, but certainly with the levers with which they sought to incentify the schools in the process.
rwcole – that’s what I see at our school – really good teachers getting hammered by test scores and threats from on high – they burn out after awhile… why work in a “low performing school” (where more than half the students are non-native english speakers and many newly arrived in the country), when they could just go to a nice, white, middle class school and not have the grief?
The test scores are treated as gospel by many parents—they are printed in the local newspapers. The result of this in California is to push parents out of school districts with high levels of recent immigrants because the overall scores are poor…They may be GREAT schools- and your kids may do GREAT there but because some other kids AREN’T you move into the woderbread school district—separate and unequal is the net result.
vulture @ 35
They thought it was silly and punitive and created too much paperwork. In some cases they blamed things on the law that weren’t necessarily the fault of the law, but rather of the climate, the bad decisions of higher-ups, other laws and policies, and so on. I think more than anything they resented the standardization of the curriculum and being forced to follow scripts that didn’t always fit with what their children needed.
Scripts! Tell the folks about the “bank teller” quote from one of the reading programs.
Rick Perlstein @ 29
I’m not a conspiracy theorist; I don’t buy this argument in its starkest form. However, I don’t think the architects were losing sleep over making public schools look bad, either.
I work in a HS in Texas and I am appalled at how much time is spent teaching to the test and preparing for the test.
I work with new immigrants who often need to take the tests in their second year in the country. Goes against all the research about how long it takes to learn to read in a second language.
One of the things that bothers me most is that the students who have no chance of passing (in my case, refugees with five-plus year gaps in their education) are completely ignored by the administration and the district. There are no provisions for helping them learn at their level. This was not the case before NCLB.
Who here thinks of himself or herself as being a good teacher?
Spent a lot of years helping to dream up “performance system” to enhance employee performance on the job..
It’s always tricky and there are ALWAYS unintended consequences– in THIS case- it’s almost ALL unintended negative consequences.
Should be shit canned.
Linda,
Do you know what the parents, teachers and staff at Tyler Heights think of your book?
Ian Welsh @ 27
States differ. Multiple choice mainly; the states that do have written answers are slowly abandoning them, because (1) they are too time-consuming and costly to grade and (2) they encourage formulaic writing. Maryland just announced it was getting rid of written answers altogether on its high school graduation tests. (1) was the main reason; (2) was also mentioned, though I’m sure not a significant factor.
Jonathan @ 44
I do, but I am no longer in the classroom.
George Carlin, in one of his recent shows mentioned that if you ask someone what the problem is in America, he would answer:
How do you respond to this?
Coming from California, I graduated just before Prop 13 gutted the pulbic schools and community service networks and capacities.
Now – with impacted wait lists for community/social services and defunded schools – the privatization cult drives by the car wrecks they caused by tearing up the road to education…
and say it proves every student needs to take driving school in a Hummer.
Thanks for your work, Linda.
Here is a link to the Texas tests given in 2006, grades 3-11.
welcome…….
what do you think about charter schools?
what do you think about home schooling?
my mom is a retired reading teacher/principal…..sister 9th grade english/language arts, all levels…….best friend high school art-has bumper sticker—bush legacy-leave no child a dime….another friend 4th grade special ed….all are anti-nclb, vehemently….so, could have asked a lot of things, but only asked the two…….for now.
The whole business of using the same standards for all kids and all schools is INSANE- it rewards people who are actually showing DECLINING performance- and punishes those who are showing huge improvements but still fall short of the arbitrary standard…It’s NUTS!
It’s like saying that every division in a company should have exactly the SAME profit goal….Totally STUPID!
Good teaching is giving to your students how you think. And letting them say what they will in response. And being open to change.
Jane Hamsher @ 37
I’m wondering if the Repubs saw this as a way to drive a wedge between parents and NEA.
hackworth @ 31
Linda Perlstein @ 34
But if he fails the test, blame the teacher. AGH!
Here in CA, they’re making it harder and harder to get a teaching credential. In the end, they’ll simply issue more emergency credentials.
Until and unless we confront this reality in its entirety – it is a CLASS issue, we’ll never get anywhere with it.
Linda Perlstein @ 56
Parental education levels are also a factor here.
Thing one: My son, who was recently a teacher in Teach For America, tells me that when a school in NYC fails, they change the name, and then, it is no longer the same, failing school.
Thing two: Here’s a link to my web-page when I ran for State Senate against the fellow who introduced exit-exams in Alaska.
podcat @ 49
George Carlin is part of the problem here, I’d say. The problems that lead to a 14 year old slashing the furniture cannot be “fixed” by education.
But it is deeply comforting to maintain the fiction that they can.
Peterr @ 46
I have only heard from the people who like it. There may be some who don’t, but I haven’t heard from them.
California tests are all multiple choice, except for a writing assessment in 4th and 7th grade.
Lea (no uh) @ 63
Texas has writing components and most grades.
podcat @ 49
Indeed, the bar for success in many cases is not very high. Ninety percent of the third graders I wrote about passed the test, but they lacked basic skills. When their teachers found out the pass rate, they laughed, they were so stunned.
Every state can establish it’s OWN standards as I understand it..
The test in Mississippi?
“Count your head”.
dmac @ 52
I have no problem with people choosing home-schooling or charters, if they’re done well — which is no guarantee in either case.
BigMitch @ 60
I am suspicious about the current fad of getting rid of middle schools in favor of K-8 schools, which I think in many cases is done to mask the traditionally declining scores of middle schoolers.
TexBetsy @ 48
What should a good teacher do in the classroom?
Jonathan @ 69
Teach the students to think, engage them in their own learning, inspire them to continue learning outside of class.
Something that I feel is neglected is the fact that, in California at least, students are expected to learn and then pass tests on material that is not necessarily developmentally appropriate. Most of the curriculum standards were shoved down a grade a few years under the theory that making kids learn stuff earlier would make them smarter. They are also expected to learn a tremendous amount of discrete “factoids” and a vast array of math concepts.
In my credential program, we were told over and over that research shows middle schoolers do better in K – 8. My understanding is that this is socially and academically, but I can’t say I’ve actually read the research myself.
Linda Perlstein @ 47
Sad. I spent a decent chunk of my childhoold in boarding school. We had “exam week hell” twice a year. Multiple choice questions (even well done ones) do not test knowledge, they test familiarity. If that’s what passes for testing then better off without them.
While I don’t know what the current situation is, in the old days British Columbia used to test grade 12 students (and grade 12 students only). I found the tests quite well done, though somewhat easier than we do.
And while there were certainly multiple choice questions, they weren’t just multiple choice questions. I am always leary of the “costs too much” argument – if it isn’t worth doing right, it isn’t worth doing.
I dunno. I find it strange that testing and breadth have come into such competititon. There didn’t seem to be any real competition when I grew up, even in regular schools.
But perhaps that’s because, with the exception of that grade 12 test, we were tested in-house.
Which leads to the thought that perhaps a solution is to have the school’s teachers mark the exams. To get around the “marking up” problem, simply institute a properly designed audit. Do it right and if there’s grade inflation you’ll catch it in most individual school within a few years.
Then you can make the tests a bit more wide.
As for writing – dont’ insist on formulaic writing, make the guidelines
1) Is there a clear argument?
2) Is it supported?
3) Does the writing help me follow it?
4) For an (A) – is it one of original or funny or moving?
5) take marks off for bad spelling and grammar.
Just some thoughts. I really don’t understand why testing can’t be done well. It smacks to me of a refusal to really try to do it well, to always say “we can’t do that” and go for the lowest common denominator (like multiple choice questions.)
Rick Perlstein @ 41
When someone from the county school system I wrote about presented principals with “explicit curriculum” — highly scripted reading lessons — she said that “a bank teller could come in and teach this lesson.” Would you want to teach in that environment?
Linda Perlstein @ 74
NO! I’d hate it. We have a bit of that in the elementary schools here.
Jonathan @ 69
Engage in minor acts of subversion that allow her to teach kids the way she knows is best. If she hates the kids or is burned out, find another profession (or at least another school that might be a better fit). Learn about the world. Spell correctly. Let the students know she cares about them. Connect the material with the real world. Etc.
I think trying to make middle schoolers grow up too fast is part of why middle schools are failing. My children went from elementary school to middle school and the changes were intense. Suddenly two hours of homework a night were required (as stated in the handbook). This was not the case in elementary school where they were given a little each night.
I think it was too big a shift at the wrong time. Trying to make middle school kids act older by force and higher expectations. It might work better to let them continue to be leaders in their respective schools, continue to develop self esteem in a predictable less stressful environment and then face highschool. I think the stress of moving to middle school is really emotionally difficult from both a physiological stand point as well as from a developmental point of view.
TexBetsy @ 70
I agree entirely.
To me, the class doesn’t matter.
The objective is always the same.
rick at 29 says-”I want to avoid asking about politics, but I can’t help it. What do you think of the theories–conspiracy theories?–that some of the conservative architects of NCLB hoped it would discredit public education as a whole, to accelerate the privatization of the system?”
this has to do with why i asked my 52……….every person i know in education, at all levels, including college, thinks exactly that….every single one…..these are not tinfoil hat kinds of people….it’s a reality…….more and more funding going to charter schools and home schooling……lots of it, and it’s private……sucking money from the public schools and going into private pockets…..you would be shocked…….
but in ohio, all but eight charter schools flunked this year and will close if they don’t improve by next year……..they ‘jimmy’ their numbers and look good at first, but then later level out and they flunked out. by that time, they’ve already sucked from the public schools……big expensive experiment for someone to make a buck…..at the expense of the kids……makes me sick……
The home-schooling movement is by-and-large a disasster for education in America, in my opinion. (I wish I were humble, but facts is facts.)
Home schooling is a front for extremist, fundamentalist education. (Naturally, such a broad brush covers over many exceptions.)
Home schooling avoids one of the important functions of universal education which is to give students a sense of community, and joint responsibility for the future.
Nothing has promoted success in the great American experiment of the melting pot as much as has public education. Home schooling is its enemy.
Just my opinion.
The major problem with scripted programs is that they don’t take into consideration that students are children. Children who don’t all learn at the same rate or the same way. Scripts don’t allow for teachable moments and teachers can be penalized for going off-script.
Katie Jensen @ 77
It’s not an either-or. I think middle schoolers are capable of high-level work, but they do need training wheels still as they learn study skills and their frontal lobes develop and they start to understand why they are learning what they’re learning.
Lea (no uh) @ 81
DING!
Linda Perlstein @ 74
Oh, but you get such a great salary as a teacher . . . right?
rwcole @ 66
LOL. It is understood that the smart kids with smart parents are the ones who abandon the failing school, thus failing the school even further, eventually making a failing school a failed school. Are there any documented cases of failed schools that have been shut down and no longer used?
Hmmm. maybe some good real estate deals to be had.
This describes the ultimate outcome of NCLB teaching to the test/failing schools.
Linda, you wrote an amazing article for the Nation called “The Issue Left Behind” basically arguing that the Democrats had punted on the issue–or that the Republicans had done such a good job of framing the issue that to criticize No Child Left Behind made it look like you were for leaving children behind.
What’s the political state of play now?
hackworth @ 85
That’s our experience here.
I’m late to the party. Has anyone mentioned the decision by the Georgia Department of Education to raise standards for high school graduation and emphasize science and math and make language and art “optional”?
Ms Perlstein,
Thanks for writing on such an important topic. In this city, we’ve seen veteran educators of acknowledged excellence within their communities fired, quality magnet school programs in the arts and sciences sabotaged, and the drop-out rate skyrocket, as a direct result of one (now fortunately ex) superintendent’s fanatical institution of No Child Left Behind proscriptions and the reading fundamentals obsession behind it. The superintendent? Former US Attorney Bersin, border czar (the butcher of San Ysidro to some), rethug icon and, by some local rumors, the instigator of US Attorney Carole Lam’s inclusion on Alberto Gonzale’s hit list…. a politicla hatchetman with no educational experience whatsoever when he was first appointed to run the city schools. Everything’s linked with these people… education and politics.
Rick Perlstein @ 86
There’s no significant difference between the parties, still. The primary Democrats involved in the debate appear to think that a few tweaks to the law — paying teachers based on kids’ test scores, tracking kids’ individual progress on grade-level tests rather than comparing this year’s third-graders against last year’s third-graders — are reform enough.
Actually, I would venture to guess there are as many Republicans who want to get rid of NCLB as Democrats.
Rick Perlstein @ 29
And the ability of smaller textbook publishers to compete. Each state has it’s own standards, and the standards must be introduced in the texts. (Makes the texts really awful, btw.) Only the giant corporations can afford to put together and publish these tests that cost about $60. each in all 50 states.
Failed schools are burnt down- with all the books–BAD SCHOOL- BAD!!
CTA (California Teacher’s Association, or something like that) has come out strong against the reauthorization of NCLB, mainly because they want to mandate merit pay. I’m sad that that’s what it took for them to get into the fight, but if that’s what it takes, so be it. It sure makes it easier to watch that money go out of my check every month. Too bad they couldn’t do it because of how it’s hurting the children.
Linda Perlstein @ 74
Not that there is anything wrong with being a bank teller.
Actually, “The Pet Goat” was part of one of these highly scripted reading lessons. You didn’t think they would trust Bush with anything more complex, did you?
Loo Hoo. @ 91
The same companies that write the tests write the textbooks, and all the supplemental material and software that will help your kids pass the test, and so on. Pearson, Harcourt, etc — big business. Frankly, I am less concerned with who is making money on this than the fact the country has robotically adopted educational practices that aren’t great for children.
We are teachers in this house. We teach in a rural southwestern public high school. And we are proud of that.
Blub @ 89
In Arkansas one need only look at Richard Mellon Scaife and his billionaire buddy Walter E. Hussman, who owns the largest daily newspaper in AR, AR Democrat-Gazette.
Let’s not focus on what constitutes bad teaching.
Everyone here could give lots of examples.
Let’s focus on what constitutes good teaching.
I submit it begins with a teacher who knows his or her subject, who is really interested in his or her subject, and who wants to convey to students why he or she is interested in the subject.
Lea (no uh) @ 93
Americans need to hear concerns directly from the teachers, not from the unions, because they still trust individual teachers. And the unions need to say, We will support you when you speak up.
As for “merit pay”: Actually, I am all for paying people based not just on experience but on what they are worth to an organization. I know my opinion is anathema to the unions, whom I respect, but I don’t think it’s right to pay people just based on how long they’ve been around (and if they got an advanced degree — pretty much the only other pay boost in teacher pay scales). HOWEVER, I understand concerns about principals being the sole judge of merit. I don’t have a good solution here, but I am just saying I am open to different models. (NOT test-score based models, as I have seen firsthand for the last decade how little those tests tell us.)
Merit pay is a great idea- if one can reach agreement on how to measure “merit”.
Sis, FDL readers are an activist community–they’ll get together and call congressmen, senators, write letters to the editors, etc. Is their anything you would have them do to help fix educational policy?
Children know when adults care about them. If a teacher genuinely cares, he or she is halfway towards being a good teacher.
rwcole @ 100
Loyalty to the rethug party, rwcole. How else would you measure merit?
jane hamsher @ 5
How is Kobe?
Blub
Yeah- that was the DOJ program- outta work fer teachers too? One size fits all.
Those that ‘can’ teach. Those that can’t… become principals and superintendents.
Jonathan @ 98
And NCLB couldn’t care less about all that. NCLB was designed to make politicians feel like they are doing something to take a stand against the proverbial “waste, fraud, and abuse” in the educational system.
As Rick said in the setup piece at the top, “You’d be surprised, or maybe not, at how many people who claim to speak as experts about our educational system spend little or no time in the classroom.”
Count me in the “not surprised” category.
Linda, many thanks for this book, and for all the work that went into it.
Rick Perlstein @ 101
Seek out the stories of the teachers and administrators in their own communities, first and foremost. Encourage everyone around you to judge schools on much more than test scores. (Yes, you have to see a school to judge it.) Regardless of what happens to the law, the climate and attitudes must change. There’s no simple way for that to happen, and I’m not optimistic. But to me that’s more important than whether NCLB is reauthorized, if that makes sense.
rwcole @ 100
Actually Linda made a great argument about this in a Washington Post op-ed. She said it’s harder than it looks:
So who deserves the credit, or blame, for students’ scores? The classroom teacher is a big part of the equation, surely. But so are the teachers who provide the extra help, the principal who sets the agenda and the district administrators who choose the curricular materials.
I’ve written to both of my senators several time about issues regarding education and have yet to get a response that suggests my words were actually read. I’ve also called and gotten nothing more than a perfunctory “thank you for calling.” Thanks to FDL though, I’m learning strategies on how to be more effective in my communication with congresscritters!
All these folks that complain about teachers. Have you ever spent a day in the classroom?
Lea (no uh) @ 110
Sadly, it seems that politicians and policymakers think they know everything they need to know about what goes on in schools. And if they hear some bad consequence of the law, they can blame it on bad implementation! Convenient.
commentary from a (very) local 10th grader:
How’s the non-conservative ed policy community in Washington generally? Any groups worth supporting? Do they scratch each others’ backs, sponsor sound research or rely on cliché, coddle interest groups, what?
rwcole @ 105
Actually, if you’ll recall, I’m reasonably sure our late unlamented, now very fired superintendent did exactly that.. remember the assistant superintendent for instruction, the political fundraiser without even a college education? These people merit merit the same way corrupt clergy in Luther’s Germany used to measure divine favor – with sold indulgences. The rethugs are, at heart, a leninist organization.
rwcole @ 100
And as long as the teachers get to divvy up the students, not administrators.
Rick
Yep–It would be VERY difficult to do in such a way that it was fair to everyone and really rewarded the best performers. It would also bill filled with political land mines..
If you let the principles do it subjectively there would be screams of favoritism…
Tough.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 111
It is amazing, isn’t it? The vast majority of teachers I have witnessed in the last decade — and there are hundreds — are smart, caring and hard-working. I do think there is room for improvement in the teaching force, but not without a huge overhaul. I’d love a system where teachers get a liberal arts, math or science undergraduate degree, then have to go to a rigorous professional program not unlike law school that actually prepares them for the classroom. Then of course they’d be paid twice what they get now, or more. This will never happen, but it’s an interesting thought to consider.
Linda Perlstein @ 118
My district has an excellent mentoring program for all 1st-2nd year teachers. Seems to help a lot.
The “no child left behind” propaganda is but another reactionary path to breaking the backs of teacher unions.
Experts are almost always bad teachers.
Teaching is a skill.
Here’s an example of how the focus on testing is driving education: we have pacing guides for Language Arts and math in my district. These pacing guides are set up so that we are finished with the curricululm before testing, which is early May for us. Last year, my gifted students were able to keep up with the pacing guides for the most part, but that meant that we still had a month of school left after the tests and were finished with the math curriculum. (we had a lot of fun exploring a lot of great math that’s not in the standards though and ended the year with them positive about math)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 120
A reactonary path to the breaking of a generation and a country. Smashing the unions are a great fringe benefit.
Rick Perlstein @ 114
I usually look to Brookings, Education Sector, Center on Education Policy, and New America Foundation. I don’t always agree with them (too many easy answers), and I doubt they’re hanging out much in classrooms either, but they are probably the smartest of the lot.
Also, as I mentioned before, I am intimately familiar with how little test scores tell us. So I am suspicious of any study that ties improvements in this or that, or judges policies or people, based on test scores. Which is just about every study.
Jane’s Assistant @ 104
A big miffed about having his demands for Cristal in his water bowl denied, but other than that quite happy.
i appreciate this salon today…i think kids need to be taught how to think critically and that sometimes there IS more than answer…i’ve just been given responsibilty for 2 teen girls and i’m amazed at how little they know of history and forget creative writing ability.
My district has an excellent mentoring program for all 1st-2nd year teachers. Seems to help a lot.
I think it’s a good idea to mentor new teachers when they ask for it. Mandating that they meet weekly with a mentor just adds to their stress. Of the new teachers I’ve known who quit, this is one of the reasons. Too many extra meetings when they’re running around like crazy anyway.
Jonathan @ 121
An art.
BigMitch @ 80
Home schooling is very successful in my community.
The parents see ‘Duke faculty’ writ large in our public schools.
And who needs that shit.
Loo Hoo. @ 127
We have meetings twice a month and we provide the snacks. Novice teachers meet with their mentors and the novice teacher’s convenience.
Lea (no uh) @ 122
AKA Racing Guides.
Loo Hoo. @ 127
I agree completely! You should have seen the relief on my Participating Teacher’s (mentee?) face when I told her we would meet when we had something due or when she needed it.
Sensitive subject and I have a rather unorthodox opinion, but what the heck.
First, a little bit about my background. I was elected to my school board about 12 years ago and served on the curriculum committee. i’m also a scientist for an international life sciences company.
Now that that’s out of the way,
1.)On the issue of eduspeak, That’s been around a loooong time. One of the reasons I ran for school board was because I was involved in the “goals committee” in my district, which was run by trained eduspeakers who took great delight in wordsmithing ambiguity and schmaltz into the simplest and most direct goals. This is hard to ferret out but where it occurs, parents should ask publicly and persistently for the educator to clarify what they mean by a term until they stop using it.
2.) While I don’t like what is being done with the results of standardized tests, ie used as a weapon to destroy public education as we know it, I am *for* standardized testing to achieve academic goals and as one of the diagnostics of indvidual performace.
The department I work in has 22 individuals from all over the world including China, Germany, Ukraine, Czech republic, Taiwan, Algeria and France. There are only 3 Americans out of 22. All of the international contingent take standardized testing for granted. They are confused as to how their children measure up. They are angry at our math standards. (Even our best school districts do not compare well, in their eyes.) Standardized testing is the *norm* in the developed world.
3.) School districts differ greatly from district to district, year to year, supervisor to supervisor. 12 years ago, my district couldn’t have given a fig for advanced math and science curricula. But we got an influx of Princeton profs and pharma researchers and immigrants from high tech countries and when the last superintendent we hired 3 years ago went all “heterogeneous classroom experience” and integrated this and that, the first thing she cut out was advanced math. The district parents, with a lot more parents who knew the stakes, had a conniption fit. They were forced to send their kids to Kumon and get tutoring. The uproar was so deafening, the superintendent lost her job. So, my point is that curriculum and standards are dynamic. But I do believe that we should have a common set of standards at least in math science and reading. And we should expect all students to acheive these standards using best practices that have a proven track record of success. The job of the teacher is not to teach to the test. The job is to make the test merely a formality.
Now, I know that poorer school districts present unique challenges but that doesn’t mean we shoudl relax our standards. It just means that we have to get creative about meeting them. Some districts might benefut from a rigid academic environment, some may need more qualified teachers or more moeny, some may need to implement best practices. Whatever it is, the goal should not be punishment but retroactive analysis and tweaking to get the best result. Children are comppeting with the world now. They’d better start measuring up.
4.) Not all kids are stressed by standardized testing, nor should they be. My kid actually likes them. And her school district doesn’t seem to make a big deal about them except to say that children should get plenty of sleep and eat a good breakfast on test days. Short, sweet, to the point. My kid is G&T so she might be an exception but I don’t hear of a lot of nervous breakdowns. Sometimes, I think this is projection on the parent’s part. And if the family reinforces high expectations from the beginning, the child takes studying in class seriously.
Which brings me to an interesting thing I heard about from one of my French colleagues:
5.) In France, All parents of a school participate in review committees. That is, there is a rotating randomly assigned group of parents who review each child’s academic performance throughout their school life. They look at test scores, social development, interests, etc and make recommendations about the child’s education going forward. I love this idea, because it suggests that even if your parent is not particularly interested in your education, someone else in the community definitely is. The parents regard this service as a civic duty. My French colleague was surprised we didn’t have something like it. It shows the community having a direct interest in the academic welfare of the child. Does anyone beside me think this is a cool idea that deserves a trial run somewhere?
OK, I’ll get off my soapbox now.
I’m a teacher.
Of persons who need to know what I know.
I’ve taught in the classroom, in the seminar, and for CLE.
I’ve taught thousands of classes.
I know what students want.
A clear, logical explanation of the subject matter.
Loo Hoo. @ 130
AKA Racing Guides.
Love that, Loo Hoo, and will be using that from now on!!
per CNN, Mukasey named as the shrub’s nominee for AG
Oklahoma kiddo @ 120
Stop the presses! OKK and BigMitch agree on something! Alert the media.
BigMitch @ 136
Would the universe explode if I agreed with both of you at the same time?
My younger son’s 6th grade teacher was wonderful. He did really well, which was a thrill because he’d had problems. That year he was on the honor roll all year.
At the end of the year, this teacher confided in me that the principal had told her to change wrong answers on the tests, because the principal was not going to lose her school. The teacher refused and her contract wasn’t renewed. (Her class all did well on the test.)
Another problem seems to be that schools on the edge of being declared failures will expell kids for infractions that other schools would tolerate.
portia.vz @ 132
I agree — I don’t have problems giving kids (good) tests and using the results to help diagnose problems with teachers and students. I have a problem with:
(1) giving kids too many high-pressure, narrow tests (nearly every week in the third grade I was in — county exams and practice tests for the state exam and the state exam, etc) and spending so much time single-mindedly focusing on them.
(2) keeping the state tests so secret. Each state is different, but in many places the results come back when the kids are in the next grade, nobody sees the actual graded tests, and the results are broken into such broad categories that they are IMPOSSIBLE to use as a teaching tool.
Margot @ 138
How horrible! She should report him to the district via her union (if she has one).
Loo Hoo. @ 128
Did you feel it as a calling?
Margot @ 138
Well, maybe not, since the number of disciplinary incidents are being tracked under No Child Left Behind too. I suspect principals are less likely these days, not more likely, to suspend.
Elliott @ 141
I did.
Just a drive by, after seeing the topic…
Are there any thoughts about noted inner-city education author Jonathan Kozol’s protest fast against NCLB’s renewal (in its existing form)? He recently posted about it over at Huffington Post.
FWIW, I sent an e-mail inquiry to Bob Somerby regarding Kozol’s fast and NCLB in general. Bob is mostly a media critic these days, but occasionally writes about education, based on his prior experience as an inner-city grade school teacher in Baltimore. Despite his high opinion of Kozol’s work, Bob seems to have an opinion similar to Linda’s, i.e., some kind of accountability mechanism is required, even if the current version of NCLB is unacceptable.
portia.vz, I agree that standardized testing is important. We need to know how students are doing. We don’t need to test every child at every grade using different standards and different tests. They should indeed be standardized tests. I have tried to find out what the testing in California costs without luck. If we could skip the testing every once in a while, we could sure use the money in many better ways. Imagine the $ cost of all of this testing…
Oh, Rick, as for what this audience can do. Demand that the secrecy is lifted on your state’s tests.
Linda Perlstein @ 143
My understanding is that Bersin’s strategy was to simply shift troublemakers from one school to the other depending on relative school performance, instead of logging these as formal disciplinary infractions.
rick posted a link about merit pay at 109 ….
i disagree, there’s no way to do it
…..you say it ought to be based on merit, but then you say how can’t be based on test scores, can’t be based on agenda/curriculum set by administrators, can be affected by attendance and special needs……so, who’s supposed to denote merit? other teachers? students?
i have been ‘forced’ to be a part of educators’ conversations about their profession my entire life, when i go ‘home’, most of the time i don’t mind, but sometimes i am driven to the point of going into my father’s home office and begging him to come to the living room so the conversation could be about something else besides teaching/administration/students/teachers…….and not gossip, just what is going on…….the thought of any administrator judging a teacher’s merit according to what rate they get paid is heinous…….a good administrator is rare……rare…….a mediocre one is usual…….you want them to rate the pay of someone in the classroom?????? i don’t…….
Steve-MD/DC @ 144
I really like and admire Kozol’s work but I think the blame for today’s climate needs to be spread around — not just on NCLB but on state departments of education, school systems, principals and teachers. Everyone has a role, unfortunately. I don’t know that fasts accomplish much. And as Rick would tell you, I am far too obsessed with food to ever do it myself.
If I did, though, there are other issues that I would choose before NCLB.
TexBetsy @ 140
This is more widespread than you might suspect. See, Freakenomics: (from wiki summary)
Linda Perlstein @ 149
Don’t forget parents, community, the structure of head start programs, and the lack of education for parents about how to help their young children become more ready for school
TexBetsy @ 152
Linda wrote an interviewing review of Kozol’s latest book.
My problem with standardized tests, even criterion-referenced ones, is that most of the questions are written to trick the student. The tests that correspond to our “racing” guides are some of the worst ever. I’ve complained about them and have been asked what I expect from an off-the-shelf test. I don’t know…something that actually tests what they’ve learned rather than their ability to out-Machiavelli the test writer?
Teaching?
As Tolstoi said, every happy family is alike.
Every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.
TexBetsy, what do you mean by “the structure of Head Start programs”? Is there something wrong with Head Start as it’s presently constituted?
Rick Perlstein @ 154
Actually his second-latest book.
Rick Perlstein @ 156
Haven’t been in a head start classroom in several years, but when I was, the teachers were not very well trained and the curriculum was not to the NAEYC standards.
jonathan 121-Experts are almost always bad teachers.
Teaching is a skill.
loo hoo 128-
An art.
no, it’s a calling…..if it’s not, then you shouldn’t be doing it…….
dmac @ 160
For some people, it’s a job. Period. Which is fine if they do it well, and some of them do.
(most) teachers are called to teaching, where they hone their skills to better be able to practice their art.
dmac at 160
As a student, I want a teacher who conveys to me his or her passion in the subject matter.
A teacher who is the greatest authority on the subject but who doesn’t care to teach?
Where’s the coffee shop?
Linda Perlstein @ 158
Nice review. Have you read Sarah Lawrence Lightfoot’s “The Good High School: Portraits of Character and Courage”? I know it is dated but I thought her notion of “success” being relative to the context of a specific school or community was important.
Scarecrow @ 55
You said…
I believe you’ve hit the nail on the head. The NEA is one union that has held firm. Those who would privatize education would like this union to be disembodied. As a teacher I see this creeping influence, especially with our Board of Ed members, who little by little, resemble their counterparts in the Bush administration. And, lest we forget, Neil Bush has made a great deal of money in the education software business.
I did, Elliot, but this is awful. I used to get hundred of dollars a year to spend as I chose, now I get 0. You know how much harder a child will work on a paper for a cheap little goofball prize? It’s criminal what you can get kids to do for ten sequins!
dmac @ 160
I agree with ya 100%, and woefully underpaid for their efforts…!!! 8-( Aloha, Ya’ll!!! I’m miffed with my Broncos…!!!
Loo Hoo. @ 166
That brings up a good point, by the way. The use of material incentives is rampant in today’s classrooms and schools, as I write in Tested. It’s quite appalling in many cases. The kids I wrote about got prizes for just about everything except, as one teacher put it, “wiping their butts.”
Did anyone ever hear of a program called “CareerScope”, I think it was. It was a Florida program nwhich tested what your child would be best suited for. I think it was a 10th grade program.
dmac @ 148
Merit pay for cops? Firemen? District attorneys? Who gets to be the god? How could it not turn into total groupthink? And how much cheating would go on for an extra thousand bucks a month?
Linda Perlstein @ 139
Ahhh, we do agree on these two points. Constant standardized testing can be disruptive. My district sneaks in practice but it’s so subtle, that kids don’t know it’s happening and it *is* used for diagnosis, at least in writing.
Yes, I too, have had a hard time finding district results and specifically, where my kid ranks in the state. For her, it is particularly crucial because she *is* gifted. I was able to track down some information online but it was the result of chasing down a lot fo links. She ranks at the top 2% of children in literature. In math, there was no data available but she had a nearly perfect score. So, you can imagine how enraged I was when the superintendent dropped advanced math.
A lot of attention is given to average and struggling students but kids at the other end of the spectrum receive relatively little attention. In NJ, there is no state school for G&T as there is in other states. There is very little in class instruction, only one period of pull out instruction and NO extracurricular activities or summer day camps. The perpetually curious have behavioral problems and develop poor study habits.
I haven’t seen anybody address this yet in a book but I fear we are about to lose our brightest students due to neglect.
When students ask me what prize they get for winning something (like multiplication speed bingo), I tell them “the thrill of victory”
Loo Hoo. @ 165
LOL! My kid has never fallen for these “rewards”. It has driven her teachers crazy. You know what works for the ornary little smart asses?
Attention.
portia.vz @ 171
I know a HS where students were given one raffle ticket per TAKS test passed. Then 50 iPods were raffled off to those students.
That brings up a good point, by the way. The use of material incentives is rampant in today’s classrooms and schools, as I write in Tested. It’s quite appalling in many cases. The kids I wrote about got prizes for just about everything except, as one teacher put it, “wiping their butts.”
In Ron Suskind’s A Hope in the Unseen the main character, Cedric Jennings, won’t go up to the stage to get his monetary award for good grades because he knows he’ll get beat up after school for “acting white”. Ogbu wrote about “oppositional culture”, the idea of resistance to success as a way to “fight the power”. This is such a crucial issue, especially among African-American males.
Teaching (children, as opposed to grad students) is the one job I would never feel up-to doing. Taking responsibility for shaping the way in which a future generation relates to the world seems to me to be quite beyond my capabilities. I don’t have enough sense of certainty about right or wrong to take this on myself. I just couldn’t deal with the likelihood that I’m just wrong.
Linda Perlstein @ 173
My son is in GT and has often had more accelerated classes but never any special programs.
TexBetsy @ 175
You know, if a teacher wants to reward her kids for good behavior with popcorn at the end of the week, fine. But money for grades and test scores and even attendance (cf. Joel Klein in New York) makes me want to barf.
What I’m thoroughly disgusted with is the non-support for Medically Home-Schooled children, such as my Son!!! 8-(
Blub @ 177
I used to want to be a teacher. Now I don’t think I could stomach the bureaucracy.
elliot at 142, funny, i didn’t see you posted ‘calling’….great minds and all……..i”m on dialup and catching up on comments………always a ‘tick’ behind, but i don’t mind……..
We have a gifted magnet program in my district. We have 5 designated schools that have a 4th, 5th, and 6th grade class just for GATE (gifted and talented education) students. The problem that we always have is getting principals to notify their GATE-identified students of the opportunity to go to the GATE magnet school and/or encourage them to attend. They don’t want to lose their high scores on the tests.
“Reems upon reems…”??? Perhaps more standardized tests for spelling are needed?
Blub @ 177
One of the problems with teacher ed is that, in many programs, the student teaching experience doesn’t happen until very late in the undergrad program. All too often students go through the program only to find out they don’t like the classroom.
roz @ 184
I’m sure you’re just picking a nit in an on-topic way, but spelling ability is a gift. (like Mitch, I don’t have many humble opinions!)
Thank you all for talking and reading with me today. I hope you check out Tested: One American School Struggles to Make the Grade (and for those of you who asked about middle school, Not Much Just Chillin’: The Hidden Lives of Middle Schoolers). Please recommend it to anyone who you think would enjoy or benefit from reading about the real-life, day-to-day impacts of school reform. I can be reached through my website, http://www.lindaperlstein.com.
portia.vz @ 172
I didn’t mean to put in their pocket as a prize. I meant, for instance, if they turned in a story without mistakes (different expectations depending on the student) they could then decorate the picture to go with the story in some sort of special way. Something quite motivating about sequins during the holidays!
dmac @ 182
on dial-up!
I’ll just call jinx then ;)
Who here has taught in a classroom or a seminar?
I’ve taught in college and in corporate seminars.
raven @ 184
75% of our new teachers were never in a teacher ed program as I remember them. 75% have alternate certification.
raven @ 184
True. And likewise, the people that need to be counseled out of teaching have already spent a fortune in that program and want their money back!
New threadiness by Teddy!!!
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..d/#respond
I’m taking off, too. Let me recommend one more time you all buy the book. It is, among everything else, a gripping story.
And it has reems upon reems of pages.
Linda, thank you so much for coming and sharing your book and your research with us.
Jonathan @ 190
‘teaching b-school grad students.. it’s a very different experience I’m sure. If I mess up, the worse that could happen is that they’ll mess up some i-bank’s derivation of the capital asset pricing model.. not the whole bloody planet. I could never take on the responsibility of doing damage to other people’s children :)
jonathan at 163 says-”
dmac at 160
As a student, I want a teacher who conveys to me his or her passion in the subject matter.
A teacher who is the greatest authority on the subject but who doesn’t care to teach?
Where’s the coffee shop?”
if it’s a calling, then they are passionate……..authority, they won’t last…they’ll die young from being unhappy and unfulfilled …unless they’re getting lots of money or they’re finding ways to get their ego stroked from the job…….
yeah, where’s the coffee shop? those are the classes i cut…..the disconnected ones……..
Loo Hoo. @ 188
I know what you mean and for most kids, it works fine. But think of it this way: you have a kid who is G&T in your heterogeneous class, she scores in the top 2% in the state in literature, her writing samples are nearly flawless, and you give her a packet of adjective exercises that you expect the whole class to conplete. The packet is mind numbingly dull and boring and a tortuous exercise in tedium for her. She knew this stuff two grades ago.
You offer her sequins if she gets it done.
She’s thinking, “Are you serious? I have to do this $^%$ for *sequins*?”
Did I mention she wins state wide art contests? Sequins? Hell, she’s wotking with pastels and takes art lessons at the Met.
Sequins aren’t going to cut it.
portia.vz @ 199
In my class she’d be writing a short story about a girl who has an adventure during classes at the Met.
Thanks so much for being here today, Linda and Rick. It was a great discussion and we really appreciate it.
Kobe says “woof.”
For many STUDENTS NCLB has become a major educational desensitizer. As students are tested tested and tested more and more they become less engaged, especially those already having difficulty with the curriculum. As high school and middle school classes move from intellectually mysterious and potentially exciting to test prep and score analysis only, the students become more and more disconnected. I am seeing this testing burnout in my classrooms now. After awhile some will just give up, exercising their hand eye coordination by simply filling out the ovals on the test sheet randomly or in heart shaped patterns, lowering API and exascerbating AYP mandates. This might lead to privatization under existing NCLB mandates.
The reality of this is that students become more vulnerable to giving up and dropping out, potentially increasing their chances for prison or at least limiting themselves to low-pay zero benefit jobs (if there are any.) Or, now, they can join the lowered expectations military and be taught remedial skills in boot camp while getting ready to fight for the transnatls.
And someone is making billions of dollars off of all this…
The best way to fix NCLB is to just dump it all and start over again with the ESEA and a realistic commitment to school district and funding equality and student privacy. But our Democrats cannot even end an immoral and illegal war.
TexBetsy @ 200
She’s going to be the best in your class. She writes with imagination and confidence. She writes like an adult. Do you have time to teach her to HER level in your class? Or do you just expect her to fit into your classroom the best she can and vamp? Give her an assignment that she has to do by herself, with no peers for company? And forget about skipping a grade. It isn’t done.
This is why my daughter HATES school.
portia.vz @ 203
I try to work with every child at their own level and encourage independent work. If her level of writing is beyond mine, she writes in consultation with a university level penpal. If the rest of the class is reading “Call of the Wild” she either reads that or an adult book on similar themes and she finds connections to MORE of the SS curriculum than the rest of the students find. It’s called differentiated instruction. It is how I was trained and I don’t see it being taught much anymore.
Portia.VZ feel free to email me. Tex Betsy at g mail
Linda: I am reading your book, and, working through our Texas State Teachers Association (an NEA affiliate) to try to get George Miller’s attention on how flawed the new NCLB law is. Most of the commentators here have addressed the flaws.
The problem is, we can’t seem to get the Democrats (Miller and my congressman, Ruben Hinojosa, who is on Miller’s committee) to listen to us. NEA’s solutions are not perfect, but most of our susggestions are based on school-life experiences. We sent a delegation to testify before the committee last week, and the members of the committee spent most of their time out of the room listening to General Patraeus. How in the world do we get these peoples’ attention? Do they really want to listen to those of us who work with the absurdities of NCLB every day? I have no problem with accountability, etc., but how in the world do you get a learning disabled student to read at grade level? That is one of the many absurdities we face on a daily basis, and seem to have no one in Congress willing to listen. The Dems seem to as much in thrall as the Reps to the “business of education” program advocates that you describe in your book. I’m angry and frustrated.
Jane Hamsher @ 37
From Duke faculty to 1st grade in public schools, the whole of our eduction resides in callous indifference.
Obviously, there is a conspiracy to dumb-down European white males.
And the conspirators gloat in their success.
Americans listen to these numfucks at their peril.
[Sputter] GOD FORBID that we should allow kids to do any voluntary or recreational reading after finishing a test! THAT’S a habit we wouldn’t want them to pick up, reading without being forced to! What planet are these people from??
It reminds me of my third grade library class where the teacher slapped me for reading in the library. She was teaching us the Dewey Decimal system at the time and I had learned -that- at the city library before I was done with first grade. So I was reading. In the library.
I just don’t know what to make of this country sometimes…