These three stories have resonated with me lately:
– Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell is now admitting — no, boasting — that he lied to Congress when he claimed a few weeks ago that the new Constitution-trashing FISA legislation helped thwart a terrorist plot.
– ABC correspondent Alexis Debat, much in demand in Beltway media circles as an expert on the Middle East, has been exposed as a fake who used lies (and bogus interviews-that-never-happened with Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Alan Greenspan, Michael Bloomberg, Bill Gates, and Kofi Annan) to do things such as promote the Bush White House’s planned attacks on Iran.
– The Washington Post’s Dan Eggen tries to pretend that major right-wing player and zampolit Ted Olson is just this innocent widdle bunny rabbit being picked on by those mean ole partisan donkeyheads: “Olson is the latest in an array of potential candidates, including Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who have drawn early objections from Democrats. The Washington Post reported last week that Olson had emerged as a leading contender, but many Democrats view him as a sharply partisan figure with alleged ties to a conservative magazine’s investigation of Bill and Hillary Clinton in the 1990s.”
As TeddySanFran said when he passed this one by e-mail: “ALLEGED TIES?” Olson was in fact one of the key players in the Arkansas Project, though he would later lie his ass off before Congress and deny it. But giving bogus testimony seems to be a habit with Olson: He did so before Congress in the 1980s to try and block the probe into the Superfund scandal that occurred when he was Ronald Reagan’s assistant attorney general, and he did so again before the Supreme Court in November of 2000 in order to stop the Florida vote count and give George W. Bush the White House. (Oh, and who’s Olson supposed to be replacing as attorney general? Why, that world-class liar Alberto Gonzales.)
Our illustrious Beltway press spent the last two years of the 1990s calling Bill Clinton a liar — and never hesitated to use the word in reference to him — because of an affair he’d had with a woman. Yet George W. Bush and his buddies — many of them in the media — lie like rugs, and their lies are about matters of national and deadly importance. Yet, as Paul Krugman pointed out ages ago, the lords of the press just find it so hard to say this.
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again
Zed!
Top 3?
raven @ 1
Nice, Raven!
Talk about folks who can Multi-Task!
Yep.
Hi PW. Apologize for the EPU, and off to read your article.
—
Thanks, Ian, for a really good post. I need to learn more about the economy and how it all works. Can’t wait to read how Bush ruined the economy when you get that up. I don’t suppose it will be a pretty thing.
Thanks, too, to Jonathan. Great news about the march, too bad it wasn’t covered properly by the MSM. Are they seriously trying to go out of business?
Denounce fuckery!
CTuttle @ 4
Quick and the dead.
Ted Olson, I’m sorry to report, shares my last name.
raven @ 8
One bullet, one kill…!!!
It’s ok Loo Hoo…he’s the Olson from the wrong side of the tracks!
demi @ 5
What, 3 football games, throw the ball to the dog and snarkarama!
PW, Unfortunately there is no fair and balanced media in our country to report on your points. I’m still waiting for coverage on how nukes were flown over the country.
But Teddy, what do you really think?
LL!
Hiya Hon.
How was the RC?
(I don’t want to say the Whole Word).
OT but the Huskers look pretty good.
Olson is a fascist pig. I’m such a rad.
Demi! hey!
(not sure what you’re referring to though — RC?)
raven @ 12
Making dinner, Football and I just told Mr. Moore I wanted to go through my Solo for tomorrow morning before a pout a(nother) beer.
(tee hee.)
Hello, everyone! I see Raven got the zed.
LoudounLib @ 18
Loo Hoo. @ 9
Fear not. We’re smart enough to know the difference between a lying, power-mad turdball and one of our own.
JPL @ 16
they are knockin’ on the door!
demi @ 19
Ah, a beer. 13 years since that.
Hi PW!
What do we want?
PEACE!
When do we want it?
NOW!
Repeat 100 times at the top of your lungs.
Oh, and from SDS to cops on horeseback:
GET THOSE ANIMALS
OFF THOSE HORSES!
Repeat 100 times as loud as you can.
How come sometimes the whole comment doesn’t make it?
Anyway, someone else said the other night that they were having a R**t Can*l today. Who?
Why all this liberal, left wing reluctance to bombing Iran?
Raven,
Is that a good thing?
If so, Good on ya.
Jonathan @ 26
I am so proud that some of our pups were in DC today. Wish I could have been there. Good on you, Jonathan – thanks for representing us.
hoo boy demi, that wasn’t me I’m happy to say. Ouch!
Jonathan @ 26
Horses, I thought they were Asses, err… Mules! Wait, they’re being Mulish…!!! 8-(
anyone with an investment in fire extinguishers is doing well, beings that there are so many republicans with their pants on fire.
demi @ 29
Best for me and mine. No judgment, no AA, no higher power, just put it down.
Twain @ 30
Yes — thank you Jonathan. Glad you were able to be there.
Just a drive-by, but if you want the news media deconstructed, VERY thoroughly, go here and marvel:
http://www.dailyhowler.com/
The archives go back for years, and are invaluable.
Al-Sadr loyalists quit Shia bloc
The move leaves the coalition of Nuri al-Maliki, the prime minister, in a precarious position with about half the seats in the 275-member parliament, although it could survive with the support of independents.
http://english.aljazeera.net/N…..DD54C8.htm
There was also a link a few days ago that purported to show that Olson lied about a telephone conversation from his wife on one of the 9/11 planes before it crashed.
raven @ 34
Cheaper too, I bet.
You are one strong, smart Pup.
Geez, if you didn’t already read it, be sure to read PW’s link on Alexis Debat. This clown should be imprisoned for the remainder of his miserable life. He could have started WW111. Even if he was following orders… Update notes:
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Microsoft founder Bill Gates and former U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan have added their names to the list of people who say they were the subjects of fake interviews published in a French foreign affairs journal under the name of Alexis Debat, a former ABC News consultant.
Hiya PW.
Can they arrest him?
SnarKassandra @ 41
Hey Cassie-feeling better I hope!
LoudounLib @ 35
J, the day after Dewey Canyon there was huge May Day demonstration in DC. As about 100,000 people went by the Justice Department people came out on the balconies and the crowd chanted “jump, jump, jump”.
Marion in Savannah @ 36
Aloha, Early Morn Firepup! I depart, you arrive…!!! *g*
demi @ 39
Yea, I hung it up when I started my doc program, could have never made it financially or otherwise if I hadn’t. I ran at a pretty hard pace up until then.
I am feeling mostly better but still stuck in the house till tomorrow.
Who’s this guy trying to kid. We all know there were WMD’s in Iraq and that Saddam caused 9-11.
Syria’s ambassador to Washington denied Friday reports in the American media that an Israel Air Force strike on his country 10 days ago targeted a nuclear project being undertaken with the cooperation of North Korea.
In an interview to Newsweek, Imad Moustapha called the reports “absolutely, totally, fundamentally ridiculous and untrue.”
“There are no nuclear North Korean-Syrian facilities whatsoever in Syria,” Moustapha said.
Evening, Cassie and Madmommy!!!
SnarKassandra @ 46
Hey kiddo.
raven at 43
great, wonderful story!
Elliott @ 33
Good one, Elliot!
Raven,
What’s the doc in?
(I’m still catching up on people’s personal details.)
Jonathan @ 50
Such a time it was.
Hi Raven and CT
All Democrats are liars.
Who says so?
Republicans.
So when Democrats say Republicans are the real liars -
The press takes that to mean that Republicans must be telling the truth.
-because all Democrats are liars.
The circular logic of journamalism.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
Dayam, the politcal front deteriorates ever further…!!!
This may be considered a little off-topic, but I guess it is a kind of lie.
Follow the links below to read more outrageousness (in the sense that you will be outraged) by the warmonger talk and military as obediant-toilet-paper-and-cannon-fodder attitude of the wingnuts.
Kagans and his ilk say Webb’s idea of feasible rotation schedules is BS. The troops can get a rest after they win all the wars these nuts have planned.
I guess this is part of the “if you criticize Cheney-Bush warmongering and national security incompetence/incoherence, then you criticize the troops” lie.
Seriously, follow the links below and feel the blood pressure rise. These people are shameless. Below is from comments several posts below, so apologies, but that post had been abandoned.
How did these lazy arrogant incompetents, who as far as I can tell have neve done one thing except bloviate, get this kind of authority?
—-
Some wingnut ravings should be broadcast to the whole public, so they can make up their minds. Read this. It is unbelievable, but true.
Glenn Greenwald
Saturday September 15, 2007 09:36 EST
American War Culture in a nutshell
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
demi @ 52
Adult Ed, emphasis in Adult Literacy. Since I’m a high school dropout with a GED I was lucky enough to be able to look at why folks quit school, why they go back and the meaning they attach to their experience.
Loo Hoo. @ 51
that’s just the right pic!
SnarKassandra @ 41
They could charge him with contempt of Congress. But that would be partisan and icky and David Broder and the rest of the GOP/Media Complex would shake their fingers in shocked disapproval.
I had not heard of the Debat scandal before. Ouch! How is it that this happens once or twice a year that some major news outlet hires somebody without credentialing them and never check their work no matter how outside the ballpark it is.
xaxnar @ 55
If I use that for my HS journalism class I will get a zero for the day.
From the Jerusalem Post:
Report: US to attack Iran in 8-10 months
By JPOST.COM STAFF
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S…..e/ShowFull
Hugh @ 61
i was wondering if this would end up on your list.
Two new posts today.
http://frecklescassie.wordpress.com/
Oklahoma kiddo @ 63
an FU or two?
SnarKassandra @ 61
No, if you use that you get tossed out of the class, not just for a day but for good.
Very disappointed that FDL and Kos is ignoring this important protest in DC. People from all over the country spent time and money to make a difference including the die-in arrests by the IVAW and the threats of the Gaithering Eagle thugs.
DC Macing, Miami Rallying, and David Cline
Submitted by davidswanson on Sat, 2007-09-15 22:20. Media
I hear they’re macing people in DC – will try to get details. I just spoke at a great rally for impeachment in Miami, speech and video coming soon. And I’m very saddened to learn of the death of David Cline, leader of Veterans for Peace. We should all try to do as much as he did in his admirable life.
Report from Lori Perdue:
Capitol police used pepper spray to try to deter people wanting to participate in the die-in as they went over the wall. Two unidentified males tried to go over the wall, and the police pushed them back with their riot shields. When they wouldn’t get down, they sprayed the men, and the wind spread the spray all over the front of the crowd. I got hit by overspray, and so did Krissy Klein, 13-year-old daughter of Tina Richards.
Also, Carlos Arredondo was jumped by eight members of the Gathering of Eagles. Beat him to the ground and kicked him repeatedly until a group of Veterans for Peace and Iraq vets pulled them off. He was at his truck, which is his memorial to his son, Alexander.
Baltimore Sun article with photos of Carlos.
Youtube rally video.
I spoke with Carlos and Medea and Gael, and Carlos is unstoppable, going to press charges. A Code Pink woman was slapped in the face by the Gathering of Vultures. A woman named Amy who was with Carlos was pushed around. Carlos was the only one beaten up. The pro-deathers also threatened people over a bull horn and shouted things to let the Code Pinkers know they knew the details of activities in the Code Pink house. I’m told Huffpost and other sites are playing this rally as equal numbers on two sides, but it was more like 15,000 – 20,000 for peace and impeachment vs. just under 1,000 for war and tyranny.
Carlos said he was holding an American flag upside down, which is what led to them attacking him. Over 1,000 people lay down at the Capitol to be arrested, but the police were happy to let them lie where they were. So, they found a way to get through the fence, and a smaller number got arrested.
____
Why did I have to spend 10 minutes drilling down with Google to find complete coverage of this event? The single photo that accompanies the very short AP article on this protest was taken from such an angle as to suggest that just a handful of people showed up! It also is vague about the number of anti-war protesters, describing their number simply as “thousands”, while clearly pointing out that an apparent counter-protest by a pro-Iraq-war group numbered “almost 1000″.
This has the affect of minimizing the relevance of this protest, the way the mainstream media minimizes everything that is counter to their agenda. It makes me sick. Thank God for you guys and a little truth in reporting
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.co…..apito.html
__
This protest is being CENSORED by US media. Why is this story on in a BLOG and not a FEATURE on the SUN? Why is CNN still not even mentioning this event???
Oklahoma kiddo @ 63
Germany’s unwillingness to impose further sanctions on Iran has pushed the United States closer towards a decision on a military strike, FOX News reported on Wednesday.
raven @ 58
raven,
my daughter dropped out of high school
is now in her last year at Columbia
still scratching my head
Wow. PW that is outstanding.
Heh. Magic. The spell seems to be in full swing.
Raven,
Teaching Old Dogs New Tricks?
But, seriously, I imagine there are different reasons for different folks.
Do you find that the majority want to learn to increase their earning potential or for personal satisfaction?
CTuttle @ 48
Looking forward to the Warriors game later? I just got home from work and began Snoopy dancing as soon as I checked ESPN. Auburn got beat (Huzzah!), Tennessee as well, Bama’s winning and so is LSU and USC looks like they have all they can handle with Nebraska. I am a happy camper, football-wise.
Hugh @ 60
Oh, but why limit it to news outlets? Can you say Chalabi? How about Curveball?
LS @ 70
oathbreakers beware!
demi @ 27
Mary McCurnin.
Azzaman, September 14, 2007
The Ministry of Defense is employing helicopter gun ships to protect oil pipelines and power pylons from attacks by insurgents and saboteurs.
madmommy @ 72
Heh, Hawaii did the Haka, and UNLV was cool with it…! Game almost on!!! *g*
raven @ 43
What? When?
raven @ 69
Well… they do have Cheney on there a lot, don’t they?
Gotta love the fact that he used a Kreator song for the title of his book.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 79
He may as well be their managing editor ;-)
Oh, Peter, great point.
You choos the sources which confirm what you want the public to believe in?
Errrrr…
demi @ 71
My study was prompted by a work by Cameron and Heckman, “The Non-Equivalency of High School Equivalency Tests”. They hammered both the GED and students who got it in an “econometric” study. My work was a very modest qualitative look at the elements I mentioned. And yes, there were many different motivations. Some folks were trying to fill a void they felt in themselves, some were trying to influence their kids by way of example. For some quitting school was a great idea, for others it was an economic necessity. What I do know is that there has to be a second chance for folks whatever their reasons were.
Loo Hoo. @ 78
1971.
raven @ 83
fascinating work!
and you are so right about another chance for those who did drop out of school.
Jonathan @ 69
I think it’s great!
Loo Hoo,
Dewey Canyon was a big military operation in the northern part of South Viet Nam.
raven @ 83
Did any of them leave when they had a baby? One of my friends is pregnant and another had a baby a year ago.
There is a distinct advantage to reaching a period in ones’ life where the slow but steady drum of the lie no longer has the percieved affect that it was designed to achieve. Given the limitted nature of the blog response the examples that you chose as examples constitute an acceptable level to describe what is happening in this country today. However- “Today” is no longer a viable moment in the normal processes that have guided this country in its historical past. This country is in the throes of a total collapse. Its foundations are collapsing as we stand there and watch. Our society, once so recently described anywhere on this planet as the Modern Utopia, the land of milk and honey,Freedom land is now being described almost everywhere as the most despicalbe country on earth. It is daily being described in terms that have only been used to describe Hitlers’ Gremany or Stalins’ Russia.It is now viewed as a country that abandoned one of its most magnificent cities through the acts of a racially motivated Government- Acts that are called acts of modern genocide;It is shunned by peoples everywhere that have come to the conclusion that the sole motivating goal of it leaders and its citizenry is greed; It is shocked and despised in its ability to simply walk away from agreements made in good faith with not so much as a blink and a nod; A country that once was described as the home of those who never turn their hearts away from the lowliest or the neediest! ENOUGH? or is more needed?
The people of the Lie- That is what we have become and if there was ever a time for someone to step up – this is it. I no longer believe that that someone exists!
raven @ 82
Raven, you and my mom would have a lot to talk about. She did her dissertation on recuriters and college placement officers, comparing the “place-ability” of traditional, straight-from-high-school students with non-traditional students – either folks with GEDs or who took time out between HS and college. Very, very interesting research.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 63
Grrrrrrrrrrrr….I am getting really sick of this……..
Catch-22? If an ally is threatened, we have to defend it, before it is attacked? After it is attacked? No, the problem is that if our ally is giving money to members of our government to support taking out its potential enemies based on verbal threats, then it is buying a preemptive strike on its enemies. That is wrong. That means that anybody that looks at you sideways is vulnerable to preemptive attack, because you paid someone, in advance, to do that. That is craziness. That is insanity. That flies in the face of all diplomacy. That is flat out wrong.
Grrrrrrrrrrr……I cannot stand this BS.
Elliott @ 64
It’s a good point. If Debat had just been making stuff up on other kinds of stories, it would be just an ABC media scandal, but that he was making stuff up on Iran and Iraq puts in the policy and propaganda sphere. So I will try to include in the list. It will be entry 250 when it’s done.
Jonathan @ 87
Sorry, this was Dewey Canyon III, the VVAW demonstration.
SnarKassandra @ 88
Oh yea, very common.
SnarKassandra @ 87
The biggest “second chance” predictor for folks like your friends is how the schools and communities treat pregnant teenagers. Are they supported or ostracized? I hope, for their sakes and their childrens, that they have some support in your community.
Peterr @ 90
Sounds like it, where did she do her work? I know there is a school of thought that GED grads may have more persistence that regular grads.
wesgpc @ 57
OMG. He and his family and bff Kristol don’t like Webb’s bill.
If troops want more time at home, Kagan says, there is an easy way to achieve that: “win the war we’re fighting.” Of course, that would not even work, because Kagan and his friends at the Weekly Standard and the American Enterprise Institute have many more wars planned beyond Iraq for other families’ sons and daughters to fight. For that reason, Kagan actually had the audacity several months ago to type this:
This was what most pissed me off about Bush’s speech the other night. He sounded to me like he was blaming the troops with his Return upon Success diatribe.
Peterr @ 95
What do you mean by the community?
raven @ 95
My sister was the first ever in our town of 50,000 to have a baby during high school and go on to graduate with her class. It took a lot of support back then, I imagine it still does.
billjpa @ 90
Would you consider that we (you know who ‘we’ are) are the leaders we have been seeking?
That is Grace Lee Bogg’s perpective. I agree.
What do you think.?
Call Nancy Pelosi @1-202-225-0100, just say IMPEACH.
raven @ 95
Southern Illinois University at Carbondale.
David W. Bartoo @ 101
Grace is certainly a classy Dame…!!! 8-)
egregious @ 99
Hi EG, I’m afraid we’ve hijacked a really good thread!
Loo Hoo. @ 98
Hi Everyone !
My feeling is that Petraeus is helping Bush to lay the blame for the failures in Iraq & Afghanistan at the feet of the U.S. Military.
Oh, and the Trojans’ Offensive line is making the ‘Huskers’ Defense look like Swiss cheese …
When people know my mom is in jail for drugs they assume she didn’t finish HS and she had me when she was young. But she was 29 and married and finished college by then.
True story:
One of my cousins had a baby, at 9:30 this last Saturday night in an Oklahoma City hospital. The little baby (a six pound girl) is fine and her mom is doing really well. The baby’s mom’s parents are in the Air Force and work at Tinker AFB. This is not a dysfunctional family. The mother of the baby is a bright and outgoing person. Only one problem. Mom is only twelve years old. She became pregnant when she was eleven. She is going back to school soon. And it’s going to be tuff for her. We in the family stand behind her and will protect her ’til hell freezes over. You never think this can happen in your family. But it can. And does.
Hi Mr Petrocelli!
Peterr @ 102
Ah, the Saluki’s. We used to go to C-dale to party. My mom is from Benton so I have strong Little Egypt roots!
PeaceNow @ 68
It’s going to take a huge rally all across the nation to get the full press. Triple the size of the immigrant rally on May 1, 2006. Big enough that everyone knows the marches took place regardless of the reporting. On a weekday, I’m afraid.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 107
oh wow!
raven @ 103
Raven, you introduced an important topic.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 107
Is she okay with this and can she handle it? I can’t even imagine – I was such an idiot at 12. Lordy, my hopes are with her and the whole family. Just love her and her baby.
Petrocelli @ 106
Dayam, somebody left the barn door ajar again…!!! 8-(
Loo Hoo. @ 98
“Return on success”… I hadn’t thought about it as a marketing gimmick quote that could backfire.
As meaing either ‘MY policies are getting a return on the troops successes”
or
“You chumps can return when you succeed, and you stay as long as you fail”
or who knows what else.
Well, live by the PR gimmick, die by the PR gimmick. It did have an insulting ring about it, but was not sure what.
Eveyone must be drinking over there at the WH now. You can see it in the work.
Phoenix Woman,
One small nit; where you identify Alberto Gonzales as a world class liar? That was part of his problem; he couldn’t lie worth a sh*t. A truly world class liar can lie with impunity as everyone thinks they are hearing the truth. With AGAG, everyone knew he was lying his a** off.
SnarKassandra @ 109
You’re not well, Cassie ?
Tons of Soup and funny videos will make you laugh yourself into good health again …
OMG … Doug Flutie … Greatest Quarterback in the history of Canadian Football and a Class Act !!!
SnarKassandra @ 96
Teachers, school board policies, local churches, the hometown newspaper, friends, families, etc. When I was in high school in southern Illinois, a pregnant girl was made to feel like she was a broken, damaged, irredeemable thing. I am amazed at some of the girls who got pregnant in my class, who pulled themselves together, fought the prevailing opinion, and got their HS diplomas.
Petrocelli @ 117
I am nearly better after two days of fever and just a tiny bit of fever today. Also down to just one nap. Playing tonight and then homework and maybe even leaving the house tomorrow!
Margot @ 75
I guess I’ll have to do a Slow Dance with her tonight….
CTuttle @ 115
Oh go on … I know how much you missed me …
From yesterday, but not wholly OT:
Anyone recall the clever Doug Schoen, the “Democratic” pollster who promises victory IF
Dem candidates just act like Republicans?
Remember that well-paid serpent in the uni-sex bosom of Dem strategies?
Well he just happens to be partner in a really evil “polling” firm – PSB
Oh… and who is Mark Penn?
Hint: he’s not related to Sean.
He is related to Burston-Marsteller: the fifth biggest megacorp PR/propaganda firm on the planet.
You see, Burston-Marsteller is how the megacorps decide which issues are presented and deployed to corral voters into supporting corporate needs.
And the very top of the warm steaming fly-delighting pile that knows itself as “BM” is Mark Penn, pollster to Hillary.
And Mark and his BFF Doug Schoen want us to know the Dems best chance it to act just like Rehtugs.
How odd – that’s just what would benefit BM’s megacorp clients.
People of the Lie –
what I expect with the Rethugs
what I expect with megacorps
what we find as Hill’s chief pollster and core adviser.
what we find with Obama’s megacorp funders.
People of the Lie.
We deserve better than megacorps’ droppings.
Let the DLC candidates eat the meagcorps’ scat.
We deserve clean water, safe food, and everything else Mark Penn and his keepers seek to deny us.
e deserve better than the People of the Lie.
Petrocelli @ 118
…And Boston College’s…!!! ;-)
demi @ 120
Maybe a waltz would be nice. :)
I didn’t know there were antiwar demonstrations today. Didn’t read about them on other blogs either. Will check out the news.
raven @ 97
I used to teach GED prep back in my literacy teaching days. I tended to discourage it – if someone had the potential and the resources I encouraged them the get a “real” grade 12 – we have a good adult diploma program in my province. Employers here tend to not have much use for it, colleges and universities don’t accept it, but will accept mature students (over 21) without formal prerequisites. Plus the second language learners had a hellacious time with the GED – the social studies tended to kill them and science was often a struggle too because of the vocabulary.
The people who it worked best for were those who had no immediate education or employment goals and wanted a GED for self-esteem purposes.
dakine01 @ 116
true, but he did keep on lyin’ and lyin’ unabashedly
Peterr @ 118
No, the school is fine with it. I don’t know about the churches. I think every family is different but I don’t know. One of the high schools has a baby-sitting there but the others don’t. The school nurse does classes for the pregnant girls and for the ones that have babies, and I think the counseling has one for teen dads.
raven @ 108
Yes, the Salukis.
And didn’t everyone in southern Illinois come to Carbondale to party?
kirk murphy @ 122
OMG!
billjpa @ 90
But it cannot be someONE. It has to be most of us. I was at local dem BBQ today, and the good news is that the democratic party has registered 3500 new members to the republican 400 new members during the months of July and August. Most everyone seems to FINALLY be getting it.
Petrocelli @ 122
*sputter* Whaa…??? :P
Elliott @ 128
Just means he was an inveterate liar, not necessarily a good one.
Fern @ 126
I’m glad I said “may”! Interesting, I always thought it was more accepted in Canada. Are you talking about languages other than French and Spanish?
kirk murphy @ 123
You always bring interesting things to the tea parties.
Kirk @ 122
Who could have anticipated . . .
love the lateral
Yeah, like this rabbit:
Twain @ 124
A slow something from The Last Waltz?
Peterr @ 129
I would go there from Urbana. This was in the early 70’s BEFORE the halloween thing got out of control.
SnarKassandra @ 120
Excellent news !!! You have probably the best “Home Nurse” in the country …
((((( Cassie )))))
((((( Betsy )))))
PW, patience with your Dem. Leadership has run dry … they have to step this up. Where are all the retired Generals calling Bullsh*t on Petraeus’ report ?
BushCo will not even admit to their gross prevarications and the Dems are not reinforcing the Constitution.
Elliott @ 137
Hook and ladder.
Uhh…PeaceNow – good on you for supporting the protest.
Sorry you missed yesterday’s discussion about the permitted and non-permitted marches and the extensive discussions on whether or not safety precautons were needed.
Hope you have the pleasure of becoming a regular reader here.
I am still trying to come to grips as to why the Speaker pulled impeachment off the table. Shame on the speaker for this.
kirk murphy @ 143
Redshift said this morning he was gonna do a report when he gets home.
kirk murphy @ 143
Sup wit dat. Been talking about it all frickin day.
from Woodstock not The Last Waltz but
The Weight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S5W4ydtM6w
SnarKassandra @ 127
One of my former churches was across the street from the local HS. The HS decided that it would allow the school nurse to distribute condoms — caused a huge stir in the community.
One grandmother in my parish commented that it was like the school was “giving kids permission” to have sex. Another, younger woman with two teenage daughters, replied “When I was in school, the worst thing my friends and I could think of was getting pregnant. Today, I worry that might daughters might die of AIDS. If handing out condoms will keep them alive until they are more mature, I’m all in favor of the school nurse handing out condoms.” The older woman was taken aback, but nodded in sympathy. “Things sure change, don’t they?” she said.
I’m glad your schools have a healthy attitude about supporting the pregant girls — and the boys who got them pregnant.
kirk murphy @ 144
Hey Captain Kirk … how ya doin’ ?
( waving to Dr. Murphy from Toronto)
Peterr @ 148
Oh they don’t give condoms! No way!
raven @ 142
I thank you for the correction!
btw speaking of hook and ladder, did you see the Boise State game back in January (Tortilla Chip Bowl or something) GOAT
raven @ 135
Sorry is wasn’t clear – i meant immigrants learning English as an additional language. Lack of cultural knowledge created a serious barrier for them in completing the GED successfully.
In my province, you can’t even write the GED until you are twenty-one or something, which means it is not an option for people who want to bail on high school and use it as an immediate alternative.
I agree on the persistence bit, actually. If employers had brains (many don’t) they would recognize the initiative and persistence that goes into completing a course of study as an adult.
The other thing I found is that many, many of my students had some kind of learning disability or ADHD. The GED didn’t work well for them either. And the main strength of adult learners – linking new learning to their life experiences and informal learning – was not much help with the structure and approach to learning required to pass the GED.
And then there is the whole essential skills piece, which I will spare you.
my cousin and i both have enough skills to pass the GED now but we’re both going to finish HS on the distinguished plan instead.
raven @ 139
Ah yes, I remember those days.
One of the oddest times, later in the 70s, was over the Christmas break when one of the bars on Illinois Avenue switched from being a biker bar to a disco. Students came back from break, hit the strip, and suffered whiplash.
We won’t talk about what the bikers went through.
Fern @ 152
You obviously know what you are talking about. The only thing I can say is that I know that here it is “necessary but not sufficient” to have the credential.
SnarKassandra @ 154
Smart Move, Cassie!!! 8-)
Thanks for those details, Kirk @ 122.
Is it Mark Penn’s wife (or that of another key Clinton advisor, although ‘Penn’ rings a bell) who is Nancy Pelosi’s chief of staff…?
SnarKassandra @ 153
I like the way you put that, “the distinguished plan”
Peterr @ 154
Is that where PK’s is/was? And Merlins.
Wait a minute, Jester,
That’s the one I was thinkin’.
Thanks!
(course the Mr. is playing the B-3 along with it. Had to open another window and replay.)
wesgpc @ 126
DC. Jonathan was there. See #46 of thread before last. Wasn’t it Kathryn of WA who is going to bring us pics later on?
Elliott @ 158
They have 3 plans. minimal, recommended, & distinguished. Distinguished adds a third science and a third year of language and a fourth year of math.
raven @ 160
You got it. I remember going out one night, just to watch the bikers cruising up and down, looking for their old place. “WTF?!?!”
Thank you Phoenix Woman for pointing out that it’s worse than we thought! Ugh.
demi @ 161
Hiya demi … when’s he gonna get smart and do your nails …
raven @ 147
Beats the hell out of me. I wasn’t talking about ball bearings as passive area denial against mounted forces yesterday ’cause I was waxing nostalgic about Patton wanting to blow up the Nazi bearings factory.*
[Jeebus - if anyone wants play by on teh upccoming DC marches, please oh please hook up with dc indymedia and narrate on the breaking news page.]
(*owned by American friends of the Bush’s but that’s another story).
SnarKassandra @ 163
Good plan – a program like that will keep a lot of options open for you in terms of university/college prerequisites.
Loo Hoo. @ 161
one of her picture adorns this morning’s Pull Up A Chair!
but not from the march
David W. Bartoo @ 136
(((Kirk!)))
demi @ 160
That’s “Chester”
SnarKassandra @ 163
The Preparatory path…!!!
CTuttle @ 171
Stay with it kiddo, you don’t want to end up like me, in college til I was 50!
Petrocelli @ 166
Hi Petrocelli -
I’m well! How’re you? How’s life in an enlighted democracy with first-world education, transport, and health care?
(When can I get a work permit for a Vancouver teaching hospital?)
CTuttle @ 171
Yeah, and we are also both doing the pre-AP path and he is in GT classes still cause he is in middle school.
For Lahoma who’s on her way to Dallas to pick up one of my aunties. I know you’ll see this tonight ’cause you have one of the laps w/u. Goodnight sweet heart. I’ll see you in my dreams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2RAVeXyhnQ
Petrocelli, are you going to be able to stick around for a while tonight? We have missed you, buddy. Last time you appeared, it seemed like just a flash illusion!
Or put another way, maybe we have Hillary Rodham Clinton (and her presidential ambitions) to thank for the failure of the House to launch any sort of impeachment inquiry…
SnarKassandra @ 176
Awesome, the AP’s will smooth the path…!!! *g*
Chester is the town character straight out of the TV series Gunsmoke which was set in Dodge City in the 1880s.4 Gunsmoke ran from 1955 to 1975 and was the archtypal TV western. Chester Goode was the name of the deputy marshall in the series who spent his time limping rapidly along the dusty main street dragging his ramrod-stiff gammy leg. In the TV series, Chester had a catch-phrase. As he limped after the town marshall, Matt Dillon, he used to shout out ‘Marshall Dillon!’, ‘Marshall Dillon!’ (Marshall Dylan! Marshall Dylan? 5). Carmen might be the programme’s Miss Kitty, who owned the Longbranch Saloon – a tart with a heart. Old Luke’s another town character (not from the TV series this time) whose rockin’ chair ain’t goin’ nowhere, as he puffs his pipe waiting on the judgement day
Oklahoma kiddo @ 177
Awwwww….
raven @ 181
You forgot my fav, crusty ol’ Doc with the twinkly eye. Oh, the clichés just kept comin’!
Laura Doty @ 182
Sorry, I pulled that of the Band’s site.
pow wow @ 179
Cogent point, pow wow.
You speak the truth.
kirk murphy @ 175
Harper is trying to make us adopt Bush’s policies but he made one small mistake … he’s dealing with a country filled with Canadians … *g*
I hope that the marches grow larger and are sustained into November … the MSM take a while to catch on to anything that is not endorsed by BushCo.
We’d love to have you up here … talk to the B.C. Gov’t – Health Ministry – but you moving here would be a great loss for America.
raven @ 184
I’ve always liked that song but never knew the backstory, thanks!
SnarKassandra @ 163
Sounds just like Texas and NCLB, Cassie. Students can call themselves minimal, recommended, or distinguished. Horrible. Just like w/NCLB kids can actually be labeled far below basic. What reptilian terms. The assumption is that every student has the same innate abilities, which is an absolute crock.
I’m glad you are in the distinguished program, Cassie, I just hate terms like this that are so hurtful and harmful to so many students/citizens. It’s something they carry with them throughout life.
madmommy @ 182
It’s 7-7 with Colt on a QB sneak, start of the second with Hawaii knocking again, Un-Colt like No.’s, heh, two QB sneaks…!!! ;-)
billjpa @ 90
oh dear
despair really has got you by the throat,hasn’t it.
consider
what helps this regime maintain it’s position?
being stuck in a circular argument with no way out and leaking creative energy,
or
not letting the bastards grind you down.
i am not American
but even i can see that the blanket condemnation given in your despair is not the whole story.
give yourself a break
then get back into it
you are saving your nations soul
madmommy @ 186
Oh, there is a lot more The Weight
demi @ 174
I’m just saying, given the choice of playing a B-3 or doing your nails … fairly easy choice for any smart guy …
Loo Hoo. @ 187
but it is the plans that have names and not the kids
CTuttle @ 189
The Tide’s killing me-Saban’s calling crap plays, the QB’s acting spooked and if they don’t suck it up they will bust my happy bubble!
Petrocelli @ 191
Makes me think of Jimmy Smith playing “Walk on the Wild Side”.
I think this pretty much sums it up:
http://thumbsnap.com/v/mYCyRIdu.jpg
Loo Hoo. @ 178
Hiya LooHoo … have to do some work on the goals I mentioned to you some time ago.
I will be here for a while tonight, who’s doing the Late Nite post ? You all had a major party last night and I missed it.
madmommy @ 194
Those Hogs are being pesky…!!!
Petrocelli @ 196
Saturday is Thers or Teddy SF
Thanks LooHoo, David W. Barton, peterr, and Elliot – I’m blushing.
pow wow @ 158
Not sure about Pelosi’s COS, but here’s SourceWatch on Penn’s wife:
Penn is married to Nancy Jacobson, a longtime Democratic Party fundraiser who in addition to helping found Third Way serves as Senior Advisor to Senator Evan Bayh, National Finance Chair for the Democratic Leadership Council, and Founder and Executive Director of Next Generation, a political action committee devoted to supporting moderate, centrist Senate candidates.
and in Jacobson’s entry:
[btw, SourceWatch is an excellent resource, part of the outstanding Center For Media and Democracy.
And John Stauber (IIRC) is one of FDL’s Facebook tribe.
So - after kicking down to Jane and the Lake and Howie and Blue America - John Stauber’s work and CMD deserve our support]
CTuttle @ 198
Whoa, first and ten at the thirteen…!!!
They’re doing everything they can to give it to bama but that’s ok, I would rather go in there next week with them having won.
It has been plain to see for a very long time that WashDC these days fails deeply and ever so repeatedly to simply tell the truth and nothing but the truth.
Although these days are heavily focused and taken up with the American Debacle in Iraq it also should be fully understood that WashDC is playing very fast and loose games on the fiscal side.
In the real world funny money games,ploys and grifter schemes do and will get you in very real trouble.
Trouble is coming to America surely enough.
There is little or no point dwelling on what G.W.Bush or Richard Cheney have already done or may still try to do between here and Jan.2009.
However Hillary,Barack and John need to get straight on being truthful much better than what we have seen or heard thus far.
Hillary in particular seems to be having the way cleared for her that remains far too unexamined and closely taken apart.
Being the first American women as a goal seems to be crowding out other important goals these days with Hillary.
Hillary Clinton’s time in the U.S.Senate has not been that stellar. She surely is not at the front lines in the U.S.Senate on Iraq these days.
Word to Hillary—Leadership is to Lead…stop the lurking and sampling routines if you expect to be anyone capable of ondoing what G.W.Bush has brought about.
Telling the truth and nothing but the truth is a test Hillary is not passing thus far.
Come clean on Iraq and the American Occupation of Iraq Hillary.
Stop the misleading.
The Big Lies really do have to come to an end.
I beg for your indulgence in combining American political, corporate and sports leadership in one purposeful analogy …
America needs leadership unlike Ford Motor Co. and very much like the USC Trojans !
PW, would you agree that failure to prosecute McConnell, AGAG and the lot of BushCo sets dangerous precedents for future generations ?
From inauguration day 2001 until 9/11 virtually no FSIA requests were made to the special court. I used to think the reason for this was disinterest, or in my darker moments the standing aside. However now it occurs to me that from day one they meant to circumvent the law and the court.
I would home someone will investigate if prior to 9/11 they were already going it alone.
CTuttle @ 198
The Tide wins!!!! Touchdown with 8 seconds left WOO HOO
Petrocelli @ 204
Petrocelli, do you want Ohio to secede from the Union?
Heyyy – this is about Lake Erie, right?
/s
madmommy @ 205
The Dawgs are coming to town.
Peterr @ 118
When I was in high school, girls who were pregnant weren’t allowed to continue in school while they were pregnant.
Also, girls just—vanished.
It was very frightening, one day someone’s just gone. “To visit her aunt in Colorado.” Or, if you were Catholic, you got married.
So there was little community support that I could see.
kirk murphy @ 207
LOL !!!
Lots of my friends are Buckeye and Wolverine fans.
Petrocelli @ 204
Nicely done. I’ve been away from the comments for a couple weeks and thought I’d miss the memo that we were changing to a sports commentary blog.
[Jinx! But not nearly as well as you did the other morning, David B. @ 185. That comment of yours from Scarecrow’s thread could use a re-posting in non-EPU territory for everyone’s reading pleasure.]
RBG @ 210
awww too bad
RBG @ 210
nice very nice
RBG @ 211
Is that an appropriate topic for this blog?
madmommy @ 206
Heh, Roll, Tide…!!! Reminds me of last week’s Warriors game…!!!
Twain @ 213
Yea, whatever you do don’t let anyone enjoy themselves.
I think Hillary’s voting record (aside from the big Iraq vote) has been pretty good. Which votes do you not like?
Twain @ 214
Usually it doesn’t happen till big Mitch comes in.
There is another angle to this story
Neo-con link
Iranian-borm Amir Taheri might be the editor…. he is the guy who put that false story in the Canadian press about Iran requiring Jews and Christians to wear coloured badges identifying them as non-Muslims.
Ya that guy is tied into this mess
More here:
Subject to Debat: Did ABC Know About Its Expert’s Sourcing Problem?
Petrocelli @ 210
Is it in the Horseshoe or the Big House this year…???
raven @ 208
That Uga is one cute puppy. I am not a Saban true believer, he seems not much more than a mercenary, but Tide nation is on a never-ending quest for the next incarnation of the Bear. What can you do?
RBG @ 211
I blame those Yanke* and BoSux fans … tee hee … CT’s head might explode …
raven @ 216
We enjoy ourselves a lot, I think. It is, however, a good thing to talk about the post since someone has taken the time to write it. Didn’t mean to insult you, Raven. Just my opinion.
madmommy @ 221
I took our friend’s 5th grader to the game today (her parents are as interested in sports as SOME people on FDL). We were second to last in line to get a picture of her with UGA!
madmommy @ 222
Isn’t Saban a Lousy-anna native anyways…??? ;-)
SnarKassandra @ 219
Or until Jane posts from the nosebleed seats at Yankee Stadium.
Margot @ 209
Did the fathers experience the same things? It does take two to tango.
Cassie says:
but it is the plans that have names and not the kids
Imagine, dear girl, if you were in the Minimal Program. How would you feel? How would you feel for the rest of your life if you only completed high school? Why a label like that? It’s like telling a fifteen year old that they are minimal, and can expect the minimum out of life. I think it’s atrocious. When I was in HS, what your district is calling minimal was called general. See the difference?
Petrocelli @ 223
I tells ya, they ain’t known as the Cardiac Sox for nuthin’…!!! *g* (six runs in one inning?)
How come no one is clicking on my political cartoons? :(
Loo Hoo. @ 218
Hillary has subtly shifted her campaign 3 times … whether this was planned or changed on the fly, Kudos to her and her campaign team … she is running a very smart campaign.
Having said that, I wish that John Edwards wins the nomination, if Gore does not enter …
Run Al Run !!!
It’s all just opinion. I wasn’t insulted. I live in a place where football rules and almost all of our friends hate it. I hear it all the time. There are plenty of times where there are more than one conversation going on in a thread.
RBG @ 211
jeez louise, no one told me the big boss was gonna be here tonight. (quickly straightening up before starting my shift)
Peterr @ 227
Ya mean when she goes ‘dumpster-diving’??? *g*
rapier @ 205
Really? Got a linky?
Loo Hoo. @ 229
Yes. At middle school it is called academic. Then honors.
Raven,
Talk about the wild side,
when we got back from our camping trip, Mr. Moore was complaining about his cracked feet, so I encouraged him to join me down the hill for a pedicure. Really funny. Big old tall guy with tattoos from his shouders to his elbows in the spa pedicure seat. Ha.
(the poneytail’s gone, but he’s still a hippy, and plays the organ at church. Gotta love it.)
CTuttle @ 226
W. Virginia
Petrocelli @ 204
Is PW around or I am asking a question that has been dealt with previously ?
demi @ 237
Cool, I never went with the tat’s but I did keep a hunk of my ponytail!
Hiya suzanne!!!!!
And now for something completely different…
discussion of today’s antiwar march!
[h/t DC Indymedia - the best place I know to follow the upcoming protests as they happen (ish)]
CTuttle @ 235
707 !!!
madmommy @ 227,
No, the fathers experienced more high school, more dances, dates, girlfriends, etc. Normal life. No shame directed at them. Just the girls.
RBG @ 211
Welcome back, RBG. I’ve missed you!
SnarKassandra @ 242
Ditto, Ma Cheri!!!
Petrocelli @ 240
PW may not be around, but I’ll take a crack at it.
Yes.
Anything else you’d like to know?
Margot @ 245
That has changed only a little.
My brother said there should be more shame so that tons of girls don’t DECIDE to have babies in high school.
pow wow @ 212
Thank you very much, I’ve actually cleaned it up a bit for my own use, it was a bit rough but
but I’m glad you liked it.
Petrocelli @ 232
The new Vanity Fair arrived today, with several interesting articles that I am dying to jump into. The Al Gore piece is about the media attacks on him durring the campaign and his reactions. As much as I would like to see him in the Oval, I really think he is over it and does not want to deal with the BS anymore. It may be he feels he can be more effective as a private citizen. The article is at the end of the magazine and I have this thing about reading VF cover to cover without jumping ahead.
kirk @243, great stuff!
Thanks again, Kirk.
Stumbled on an interesting piece here, while looking for more on Jacobson:
All about the new power players in town after last November’s election:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.c…..brand.html
And it looks like Pelosi’s current chief of staff is someone named John Lawrence.
Dayam, Doc, that’s some serious fuckery displayed to the GWII Vets…!!! 8-(
Margot @ 245
figures
Well, Folks.
Dinner if finally ready.
Roasted chicken, fresh mashed potatoes and gravy (was in the mood for comfort food) and slightly steamed brocolli.
Hold out yer plates.
There’s enough for all.
(whispering: made a cheesecake for dessert.)
Peterr @ 248
LOL … thanks Reverend … I will be e- mailing Pelosi, Conyers & Reid to point this out.
SnarKassandra @ 249
And I was such a nerd I went through high school hoping for a reason to need contraceptive devices at hand. or near enough.
In vain.
sigh
demi @ 256
yummy yummy! and i can even eat now. i am almost hungry even
demi @ 256
Bisquits?
Maybe it’s just the sanctity of the jewish high holy days, or perhaps Greenspan just couldn’t live with the lie anymore. But if you trudge on over to the Drudge Report, Mr. Drudge just can’t bring himself to believe that the war in Iraq was actually started over….not WMD’s, bringing democracy to the Middle East or any other assinine reason this administration has procured. No. According to Mr. Greenspan it was then and still is now all about O.I.L.
Who’d a thunk that!
demi @ 256
It’s getting to be “comfort food” time around here, definitely cooling down tonight..just like I like it!
SnarKassandra @ 249
Has someone had THE TALK with him yet, and if so perhaps they might better go back and hit the high points again /s
demi @ 256
Blueberry ?!!
demi @ 256
I’m on my way!
madmommy @ 261
What do you mean? He is 23 and practically married.
Petrocelli @ 263
Eh, hose off… Strawberry!!! ;-)
CTuttle @ 266
chocolate
Local news on now, top story? The weather…second story? The protests.
CTuttle @ 254
I’m just on dial-up, but from the Indymedia post the video may have some powerful images.
Hope those with media editing skills and broadband can review and make viral.
SnarKassandra @ 249
My dad was a fierce advocate for Women’s rights … here’s something he’d say that might be of interest to your brother …
… let the boys know that they will have to pay child support even for kids born out of wedlock and you will see teenage pregnancy plummet !!!
LoudounLib @ 268
that’s a disappointment, LL, especially where you are.
kirk – i sympathize – i have the dialup blues too
Gotta give the local NBC affiliate here in DC big props — they are giving most of the story to A.N.S.W.E.R and the anti-war protesters, and only about 10 seconds to the pro-war types.
Thanks for the plate Demi. I could use it. I’ve been at Amazon reading book reviews.
I’m thinking of buying America Alone: The Neo-Conservatives and the Global Order
Has anyone here read it?
demi @ 256
GIMME, DEMI!
From CNN’s site
160 arrested as thousands march against Iraq war in Washington
Elliott @ 267
If y’all are ever in Toronto and don’t have the good sense to let me know ahead of time,
there’s a bakery downtown called Bregman’s that make quite possibly the best Chocolate Cheesecake in the world !!!
SnarKassandra @ 265
And yet he seems to have the attitude that women alone are responsible for a pregnancy?
SnarKassandra @ 265
Sorry, I just assumed that a comment like that would be comming from someone younger. The fact that it’s not might be even more alarming.
I don’t have daughters, but my boys will be taught that they have serious responsibilities in regards to s*x and potential pregnancy, not to mention STDs. If they feel that they are old enough to be active, they damn well better be old enough to accept any consequences. My next door neighbor is raising 5! of her grandchildren, the mother just keeps having kids and the court keeps taking them away. The poor woman is at her wits end and never in a million years thought that she would be in this situation.
Elliott @ 271
After weather and before crime?
Sounds good to me.
Goddess, in LA if local news carrie our protests before the murder moment we thought we’d died and gone to the summerland.
so to speak.
Petrocelli @ 277
I know you’re true blue for the national fruit…!!! ;-)
Petrocelli @ 277
Oh, would have to let you know! And then would expect said cheesecake to be served … ;)
SnarKassandra @ 248
If tons of girls are deciding to have babies in high school, shame is not the answer. Shame doesn’t help now, didn’t in the 50s 60s 70s etc. It just hurts.
More structure, better schools, better jobs for their parents, more hope, more opportunities opened to them might help. Putting some money into after school, fun, supervised activities might help the situation too.
Is there anyone here who would go to Toronto and not let Petrocelli know?
Petrocelli @ 277
Any cheesecake is good cheesecake for me! Might I just skip the dinner and get a slice now?
Sorry for the sports update but
FINAL:
KENTUCKY 40
Louisville 34
Go Big Blue! Go ‘Cats!!
Late night
new thread upstairs
Peterr @ 279
A Big Fat Amen To That!
madmommy @ 280
My talk with Dad went something like this, “Son, if you get a girl into trouble, you don’t have to worry about answering to her father … you will have to answer to me !!!
Totally OT, but it’s sorta late-night, right?
After forgetting about him for a while, I thought I’d check in on his Holy Rudeness, The Rude Pundit. As always, he was on his game. Here’s his take on Shrub’s speech from last week. A snippet (warning: extremely adult humour):
“Last night, when President Bush spoke, he had the sad demeanor of the failing carpet muncher.”
Breaking it down like only he can!
CTuttle @ 282
It is the best Cheesecake, my friend …
Petrocelli @ 291
i don’t like the phrase “in trouble”
Elliott @ 283
… it’s a deal …
Of course Republicans and many in the traditional media lie. They have positions of power and priviledge to protect and the public be damned. If the truth were known to the American public some of these folks would be serving time in prison if they were lucky and swinging from a tree if not so lucky.
SnarKassandra @ 294
He was not referring only to pregnancy, but if she got hurt in a crash due to drinking & driving or drug overdose, etc. … he taught me that I am responsible for myself as well as those around me, from a very early age …
SnarKassandra @ 294
Peterr @ 279
Hey – they’re not?
kirk murphy @ 299
LOL … 707 … LOL …
(ducks)