I belive all the “outrage” over the Moveon ad initially came from the Repugs. It’s opportunistic “outrage.” Why? The Repugs started shreiking like banchees partly because they are desperate: Gonzales, Iraq, Petraeus, US Attorney scandal, scandal after scandal, and polls. What better way to defend than to attack? That is what they did. For them the moveon ad was an “opportunity” of the swiftboating variety. And also Petraues=Bush. Bush doesn’t have credibility anymore, so he invokes Petraues (the asskissing chickenshit.) No Democrat should give even an inch to this concerted effort by the Repuglikans to draw attention away from themselves, especially in the name of some BS “civility.” The repugs have swiftboated too many members of congress, plus Cindy Sheehan. Time to find a different tactic to deal with Rethug rage, rather than caving in.

Oh, and Moveon took out a full page add in the NYT. Sort of raised their heads out of the swamp, so to speak.”

I indented when I wrote it , I swear the indents vanished when it posted …not that that affects the substance of my comment Much , other than to make you more irritable, and so , sorry for that.

And yes, they raised their heads up out of the swamp , made a loud mooooing sound and prepared to take massive shit for it . And they are . And fine, they picked the fight the way they wanted it , but it could have been Much more effective and played so much less directly into the Right Wing Machine…speaking of handing the opponent an opportunity…obvious, hamfisted and self-congratulatory, and it’s their place to do exactly that if that’s the fight they want . I can’t wait to see how it turns out , and it might even make some people go over to Move on and find links to more and better progressive thought , though for me the word-play was dumb and counter productive.

And as you point out , a full page ad…not exactly Cheap . 1/2 a page of well thought out , universally appealing copy can do more than a billboards worth of Savvy Jargoneering.

Strictly a matter of opinion.

Is it me or is Move On again being used as the pinata personifying all that is wrong with the left?Personally, I go to almost every other progressive website more than Move-on, participate in polls and action calls through others like Sucky Atrios and The Great Orange Satan ( Notice how Billo et al gave up on attacking Kos once Kos Himself was so excellent live at Yearly Kos …and Faux couldn’t risk people Seeing how adorable and sincere he really is …)than I ever do at Move On …I don’t know why, it’s just never fit me as comfortably as FDL or many others in my link-bag…not to mention it’s nearly impossible to get a reply from a real person at Move on, or was last time I cared…
I never felt like they were down in it with us , never felt like the relationship was 2 way, and always find them the centre of controversy usually invented in deceit by the right , without ever seeing from them the same passion and personal investment I get here and the other blogs I read …not to say there isn’t a super-passionate deeply personal core of Moveoners out there , I just never bonded to them like I have to others. And I’ve never seen them as the Figurehead of the Online Left except when they are attacked by Bill Oreily and wrongly accused of taking money from Satan .
With that it seems we could all assemble in front of cameras and demand all the Wingnuts in Office denounce Stormfront and LGF every day and never run out of ugly sites to condemn, so again Move on is proxy for all the Hate Sites we don’t use , create or agree with , and we’re by force of media crammed into an identity that isn’t any of us , may be some of us , and really isn’t important . Move on fed the beast without sufficient tact or introspection, and did it in an unenlightened way, and made me sigh knowing they’d thought they were clever . It was obvious, hamfisted and clumsey without any self awareness to justify the point that might win some attention but might also drive away those who prefer something a bit more elevated . Like ” Petraeus, Please don’t Lie For Bush …Remember your Oath” and some text. Anything would have worked better and attracted less reflexive anger from the media dependant than a bouncy play on words …
It is after all an act of media , but too directed at the already-convinced and savvy, which wins few new comers.
And we free thinkers can say that among ourselves and our in-house spats are what sets us apart from the lockstep lizards and sheep , and that’s good , but none of us ever ever ever have to appear BiPartisan or whatever the hell we have to call it, by getting the Rethug stamp of approval and acknowledgement of the Establishement and (appologise for something that doesn’t even represent us as a group,) to a gang of oportunistic media sluts who will in a few weeks forget it all and slide a knife into any one of us who lets down our guard…
The left represents a massive majority of what is in the hearts of most of us , and knowing that we should appeal to the best of our natures, making that the contrast between us and those who appeal to greed for the few and hate of the Other . Once we harness the media to do just that, we can punch Republicans right in the stones with the truth and watch them melt.
Truth in one hand ,Fast Upper-Cuts with the other .
And so , How to Build the Pugalistic Left through Enlightened Universal Engagement …I’ll get to work on it now , stand by.

Good grief, use paragraphs.

Oh, and Moveon took out a full page add in the NYT. Sort of raised their heads out of the swamp, so to speak.

Fallon has never called Patreaus a chickenshit ass kisser, unless you want to get your news from uncredited third sources who heard something from someone who knows someone that saw a note about it. Please, in an age where information is widely and freely available, grow up.

Anyone who wishes to understand the reasons for why Patreaus has embarked on the course he has (in Iraq) must first understand the counterinsurgency plan that the French used in Algeria. You all seem to have the French elite response down pat, however in order to be informed instead of pretending to be informed, it requires that you actually understand what you are commenting on.

Also, go to Strategy page, I believe they have a complete link to the Surge strategy (written in part by Patreaus) which details the operation from a unit and city block level. Fascinating reading, and helpful in explaining (even to folks who otherwise don’t care to know) whether the surge is working. And once you’ve digested that infromation, you can make your own determination as to whether or not the General is a traitor.

As for his 2004 editorial, was he required to write that, or did the WaPo ask him to write it? Seems a fair question.

Finally, the Moveon add was stupid, and offputting to most people. If you would bother to read your own polls, you’d find that the Milatary is the one institution that most folks in the country trust. Calling them traitors is stupid. But, I consider the source.

Aside from that, I recommend that you read Comments 260 and 261, and measure them honestly against your position.

Finally, for an avowed multi-linguist, I found it surprising that you failed to appreciate my parting double entendre (French again, hint, hint, smile, smile.)