I really wish the clowns in the GOP/Media’s Gaslight Division would make up their effing minds.
As Joe Sudbay pointed out over at AmericaBlog last week:
Wait, yesterday, Bush’s Homeland Security adviser said the Osama Bin Laden was “virtually impotent.” Yet, today, Bush’s National Intelligence Director testified that Bin Laden’s forces pose a real threat. What is it? And, if we’re fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them here, how can they still be a real threat?
And yet the press dutifully relays each new piece of spin to us without comment, much less mentioning how it contradicts the previous pieces of spin. This isn’t reporting, it’s stenography.
But of course it was always thus with Bush and the media.
Remember the old “flypaper” theory the Bush people and their conservative apologists used to bat around? The idea was that it was a GOOD thing that our invading Iraq had taken a nation that was previously run by a secularist guy who hated Al-Qaeda and other Islamic-based terror groups and turned it into a bloody, weltering mess of chaos, because the chaos would draw the bad guys to it and away from us. Brilliance!
Of course, what was really happening was that our invading and destroying Iraq as a functional state in a continuing occupation that’s now cost over a million Iraqi dead and four million made homeless (which works out to nearly twenty percent of the pre-invasion population homeless or dead) has pissed off so many people in the developing world that they’re taking up arms against us. In other words, it’s not so much “flypaper” as fertilizer — invading and occupying what used to be a country is creating more terrorists worldwide than we can shoot, bomb, or blow up.
Meanwhile, in addition to serving as terrorist fertilizer, the ongoing occupation of Iraq is putting horrific strains on our military. In fact, the real reason for Petraeus’ — and now Bush’s — promising the troop drawdown is simply because he has no other choice if he doesn’t want to see a total collapse of the troops. But the Bushistas can never admit that openly.
So what do they do, now that they’ve destroyed one nation and are putting our own in peril? Why, they try to distract us with the Osama boogie-man — that is, when they’re not busy saying he’s no longer a threat.
Sheeeeesh.
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PW!
Shorter Rethugs,
I will have my cake and eat it too.
“Let THEM eat cake”
Morning, Phoenix Woman.
EPU’d and OT, but very good news, we hope!
Bye Bye, Sen. Ted Stevens!
Former Veco chairman Bill Allen might have been on the witness stand to present bribery evidence against a state legislator, but the biggest shock of the day — perhaps the entire trial — was his assertion Friday that he or his company financed a substantial portion of the remodeling of U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens’ Girdwood home.
As he testified for the third day in the bribery, extortion and conspiracy trial of former House Speaker Pete Kott, R-Eagle River, gasps emerged around the crowded courtroom when Allen admitted he provided workers and some material for the 2000 building project that doubled the size of Stevens’ official residence.
BTW – Allen wasn’t reimbursed by Sen. Stevens. At least in any legal sense of the word “reimburse…”
ok, the democrats have to start punishing this president for invoking the terminology of nazi germany
it is not the “homeland”, it is AMERICA
and evertime someone uses the term “homeland” whoever is there needs to take issue with the word, point out the history and say;
“I am not going to use terminology that referances nazi germany, I’ll call it AMERICA, and I wish the president would stop using the same terminology as Hitler but if he insists I refuse”
Who needs Osama when you have OMG IRAN!!!111
And the wheels continue to fall off the White House wagon … my only concern while I watch and enjoy this spectacle … is that the country isn’t too badly damaged in the process
Wes Clark just edorsed Hillary Clinton…
Hermann Goerring:
“Of course the people don’t want war…but it is the leaders who make these decisions, and it is a simple matter to bring the people to the will of the leaders…all you do is tell the people they are under attack and then denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country, fascist, communist, or democracy…”
If you watch the OBL video from a week or so ago, notice that whenever “he” refers to recent events, the video is in freeze-frame. The dude’s been dead since early 2002.
Ed*ard Teller @ 9
Yup, or living Paris or something wearing Armani suits.
David Ehrenstein – you still here? A question came up yesterday that I thought you might be able to resolve – the origin of the term “fickle finger of fate.”
THE FIGHTING FIFTY FIRST @ 6
Yeah. Or the world.
It’s kinda like a global chemotherapy — the danger is that it might wind up killing more good tissue than bad.
Ed*ard Teller @ 11
Is this it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T…..er_of_Fate
Phoenix Woman @ 12
but do we trust the oncologists and surgeons in this case?
Ed*ard Teller @ 11
Rowan & Martin’s Laugh-In?
OK, really getting to work now. Really.
Lieberman now questioning Betrayus on C-Span1 if anyone has the stomach for it or missed it.
Ed*ard Teller @ 9
He does tend to show up at the most “convenient” times, doesn’t he? Exceedingly inopportune for us, perhaps; But any good Right winger will tell you fortune favors the virtuous…
btw, ET, in my experience, those silver salmon you plan to smoke are just pure hell to get lit!
pw, I especially love this bit of writing from you and man, I wish some democrats would memorise it and repeat it every single time the president claims we are fighting terrorism in Iraq;
Adie from the prev thread:
what you described whith the postal ballots?
EXACTLY the same thing happened in the last federal election here in Aust.2004.
in the state of Queensland,the postal votes of a whole electorate were posted well before the election and did not arrive before the polls closed. they were disallowed and not counted.
ccmask @ 16
I just heard Liarman’s voice and muted it.
Cozumel @ 13
The movie is from late 1967. The show, Rowan and Martin’s “Laugh-In” is from 1967. But the Broadway musical “Sweet Charity” is from early 1966, and in it, the main character, Charity, refers to “the fickle finger of fate.” I don’t know if the line dates to the original production, or was inserted in a revival. It is in the script you have to rent when you put on the play.
MSNBC reporting about 1,000 people outside WH.
Pox “news” gets a more consistent message out than the guys that feed them this stuff.
Good Morning PW.
Keep hammering until they’re forced to notice. ;->
Please forgive OT here, epu’d downstairs. Thanks.
nonplussed @ 17
We aren’t planning on inhaling. Like Clinton, we’ll just put them in some brownies.
This is how they’ll look…
Why, they try to distract us with the Osama boogie-man — that is, when they’re not busy saying he’s no longer a threat.
Well, it’s confusing when you’re trying to figure out how to spin the amount of threat emanating from a dead man.
OT
Bill Durston is announcing again today at a peace rally at the Rancho Cordova City Hall that he is running against Dan The War Man Lungren. Bill is on the Act Blue Directory. If you can help out it would be a great display of support. We need to let people know that a respected member of this community is taking on a man who has voted in lock step with the Bush crime family. Bill will also remain constant in his philosophy to end this horror of a war. Durston For Congress
There is no contradiction between the two views. Frances Townsend is the one who said that bin Laden was virtually impotent. She apparently gets around more than we know and was no doubt referring to his sex life.
As for DNI McConnell, I’m not sure he and the truth have ever met so when he says that bin Laden’s forces pose a danger he could be talking about them as a terrorist threat or as a soccer team.
As for coherency, this is the Administration that tells us we should all be afraid and that we should all go shopping. Or that Iraq is really getting better if you don’t count the collapsing part. Anyway they did away with coherence about the time they got rid of logic but considerably after they decided facts were unimportant and often just got in the way.
I’ve always thought that the contradictory messages were “malice aforethought.” That they wanted to soothe some with one message, energize others with another, and put the fear of god into a third group or person.
There is no logic here. Only propaganda. And the awareness that once something is “out there” it can be repeated and spun ad neuseam – with no regard for any continuity or integration of messages.
It is the utter disregard of others’ opinions, the absolute absence of owing the citizenry anything at all!
perris @ 4
And of course the irony is that the whole idea of such a department came from (drum roll, please) Joe Lieberman.
EPU’d RE: Condi –
The question was brought up if people would be picking on Condi as hard if she were simply a gay white man working for Bush and the homophobic Republican right wing.
My updated answers are:
1) Hell yes!
2) A gay white man in Bush’s cabinet is betraying gays. Condi, by working for people who gained power largely by attacking gays, blacks AND women under the pretext of upholding “values”, is betraying gays, blacks, AND women.
Ed*ard Teller @ 24
Man, that looks good!
Ed*ard Teller @ 24
I wondered if anyone else was thinking along the same lines… Good catch, guys, heh.
JEP @ 7
Ugh!!!!
ccmask @ 16
*blergh* X 4000
JEP @ 7
So now you know why I’m not particulary enamored of Wes Clark!
Not difficult to understand at all.
Confusion reinforces and enhances fear.
Create a boogeyman. Then create confusion about who is the boogeyman. Soon, everyone is a potential boogeyman. And the weak reflexively turn to the Protector.
If Osama didn’t exist, the Bushies would have to invent him.
PW writes:
This is one reason why one should never pay attention to anything that Andrew Sullivan writes or says.
He was one of the biggest proponents of the “flypaper theory” and ridiculed anyone who questioned it.
I’m talking 2003-2004, when it counted. Acknowleding reality in 2007 doesn’t cut it.
allan_in_upstate @ 36
huh. & i thot it was spaghetti on the wall…
Jim Clausen @ 20
Has HoJo gotten to the invading Iran part yet?
In case you haven’t seen the videos of Code Pink disrupting the Heritage Foundation (Kagan etal)…it’s really pretty good:
http://hotair.com/archives/200…..age-event/
Adie @ 23
bummer! :/
Ann in AZ @ 35
I wonder if Hillary promised Clark a cabinet position.
I’m waiting for a Republican to be true to conservative principles and denounce DHS as a wasteful, inefficient bureaucracy that has added no value while squandering billions of tax dollars.
I imagine I’ll be waiting a bit longer.
perris @ 18
Thanks, Perris.
The point I want people to take away from this is that the Bush-destroyed Iraq is not terrorist “flypaper”, but terrorist fertilizer. By destroying Iraq and causing a million deaths and four million uprootings out of a pre-invasion population of around 26 million, Bush has enraged people the world over, and we will be the recipients of that rage.
Shorter version: We will likely be cashing with our blood for a long time the checks Bush is writing.
Phoenix Woman @ 30
But, Condi is NOT betraying her base.
Which is people who do their everday clothes shopping on East 57th Street.
LS @ 40
That was awesome. Kagan and O’Hanlon were there. Of course those two didn’t know a damn thing they were talking about.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 42
If she did it would most likely be State. Defense would be problematic since he was a general.
I don’t think the OBL videos have an effect on the people anymore.
Glenn Beck is scaring everybody more with this story about 17 school buses that were possibly stolen in Houston….They’re gonna attack all of the schools….they’re gonna hold all of our children hostage at the same time all over the country….
How’s this for a scary quote. From United States Senator John McCain:
http://time-blog.com/swampland…..rg_to.html
Ann in AZ @ 35
Arkansas politics, no doubt. wonder what she promised him – defense or state? The part of it that surprises me is that back in January, Clark pissed off some of Clinton’s biggest fundraisers.
Paging AK to the red phone, stat!
http://www.democraticundergrou…..15;2992001
OBL is in a paper bag under the Oval office desk.
The most dangerous man on Earth? I submit not the man in the pix up top, but our very own prez.
I will vote for Hillary Clinton for prez only if I’m forced to. I just love being forced to do something.
Hugh @ 47
As I understand it, there is a set period of time after retiring where a General can not serve as SecDef but after that period has passed, it is OK.
LS @ 39
good on them!
Some argue that Bibi is one of the most dangerous guys in the neighborhood.
burnspbesq @ 42
DHS has to be a cash cow for someone or even microsoft, sun or intel(the chip).
Good Morning Everyone,
May I lift up this Fabulous Work that JEP posted last night:
202
JEP says:
September 14th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
..we were on a mission in that
thin-skined old Humveee
The guys just out in front of us,
they hit an IED
We tried to help them in their struggle
To get free…
There must be fifty ways
To leave a bad war
You know it’s really not our habit
To attack
But there’s a lot of oil buried in Iraq
They had it once before,
and now they want it back
There must be
fifty ways to leave a bad war
Fifty ways to leave a bad war
You just jump on a ship, Dick
Forget about the Iran plan
You don’t need to destroy, Roy
Just set our troops free
Hop on the plane, Jane
No need to complain, James
Just get out of Baghdad
And set em’ all free.
You know he came home
having nightmares, wracked with pain
I wish we could go back in time
To change it all again
He said “I appreciate that..
And would you please explain
About the fifty ways
to leave a bad war..”
fifty ways to leave a bad war
And in the darkness of that
fallen angel flight
coffins surround you
and you know it isn’t right
They felt the kiss of death
as they battled through the night
There must be fifty ways
To leave a bad war
Fifty ways to leave a bad war
Wrapped up in a bag, Jack
Laid out on a plank, Hank
completely destroyed, Roy
With a tag on your feet.
Missin’ a limb Slim
Or shot in the head, Jed.
Just one of the wounded, Lee
That’s how it can be.
Because
There must be…
fifty ways to leave a bad war…
Ann in AZ @ 34
Here are some reasons why it might be advantageous to have Hillary as the Dem President:
1. Electing her would be a slap in the face of Bush – he did so much to belittle Clinton; her election would say we want his regime to be erased and back to what it was before he was appointed.
2. Almost more important that a Dem President would be taking both the House and Senate in veto proof numbers – means Democrats would be able to control any “unitary executive” temptations.
3. a Hillary/Rudy competition could put 9/11 in proper perspective; not just a venue for do not much of anything macho Repubs.
4. plus all the acknowledged reasons: time for a woman president, she has depth and connections surpassing any other candidate; Bill is a good asset (the best).
Seriously, number #2 above is the most important – all our candidates are great, but it is essential we control policy.
Waccamaw @ 51
Holy smokes!! He was only 20!!!
Phoenix Woman @ 43
Point made! And I think terrorist fertilizer is an apt description.
LS @ 51
shopping bag? trash? lunch? body?
apologies. sorta. tolerance level for jr&shooter is in deficit territory currently.
dakine01 @ 55
It may be possible but it would not be OK. Any Democrat who becomes President should try to restore the traditional boundaries within government. Civilian control of the military is an important principle and should be protected.
“Minot Air Force Base Airman Died While on Leave.
September 14th, 2007
Remember the one about the B-52 bomber that, according to legend, had six nuclear weapons loaded onto it by accident, which, of course, could not have happened—by accident—for a dozen different reasons, or more.
Airman 1st Class Todd Blue was assigned to the unit that provides security for that bomber wing at Minot Air Force base. He died while on leave in Virginia. No further details have been released.
Was he on duty when those nuclear weapons were loaded onto the B-52, “by accident”? “
The secret IAF foray into Syrian airspace was in fact an Israeli air strike directly linked to a North Korean shipment of suspected nuclear material which was delivered to Syria three days before the attack, the Washington Post reported on Saturday.
Let me see if I get this straight. Israel can be armed nuclear wise to the teeth. But no one else in the Middle East can. Well… I suppose that the stems from the Israeli government’s stability.
Hugh @ 64
Just for curiosity sake, why would having a General who has been retired for a number of years as SecDef be a bad thing while many folks believe having one as Pres is a good thing? Or do you believe a retired general should not be allowed to run for President?
Osama, Can You See?…At last, the Goldstein darling of the Neoconservative smart set in a revue of barely contained proportions!
A joint American – Saudi Arabian production, coming to a community dumbshow near you…Limited seating – Don’t let it escape!
;>)
It’s not Wes I object so strenuously to. It’s Hillary.
PW 43
Amen!
Marilyn In Texas @ 59
IMHO, she would turn out to be a Margaret Thatcher. Better than bush but we really need some much much better.
I am sick to death of the undue influence the Israeli government exerts on Republicans and Democrats alike.
I think I will pass on the “Hillary is wonderful” comment I saw above.
Re Condoleezza Rice, Bill Moyers had a long segment on 9/11 produced a few years ago. It was really jarring listening to Rice say in a shrill voice that “No one could have known” or hear her try to talk over a questioner from the 9/11 Commission in a desperate bid to avoid answering his question.
I wrote a long entry in my scandals list about the 9/11 Commission. I do not ascribe to conspiracy theories, but I will say that it has really been largely forgotten how effectively the Bush Administration alternately rolled and stonewalled the Commission in a massive effort to hide its failures.
Oklahome kiddo @ 66
I’m suspicious of the details on this. I can’t help but doubt the authenticity of the information about the Iranian and North Korean connections to the arming of Syria going beyond basic weaponry, like missiles and communication equipment. None of this “nuclear threat” stuff came out until the Turks complained about the Israeli bombers violating THEIR airspace last week and dumping spent fuel tanks on Turkish soil – not an act of war, but a clear violation of existing agreements between the Israelis and Turks. I smell at least two or three rats here, OKK…
Bill Maher said last night that he thinks the repubs have been pushing Hillary because they think they can beat her. But, he went on, she’s getting stronger and stronger and they may be re-thinking their strategy and wondering if they should instead be pushing for “the black guy”.
Bottom line. If the election is honest, the next president will be a democrat.
darkblack @ 67
lol, signing in the rein?
Ed*ard Teller @ 9
I think it was earlier, pre 9-11. You can’t have an alive boogey man if you plan on using him for 6 years.
dakine01 @ 67
That is a strawman.
No more Bush. No more Clinton. HRC seems to think her years as First Lady qualifies her to be prez. Bullshit. I’ll take Edwards.
Oklahome kiddo @ 69
Hillary is the good cop to Bush’s bad cop, IMO…The corporate agenda is mutually shared.
Marilyn In Texas @ 60
hilary is the best chance the republicans have of winning the election
I am hoping she is not the person we field
There are ‘d’emocrats. And there are “Democrats”.
Jim Clausen @ 20
I last 3 minutes. Then he puts on that “aren’t I just the cutest senator” smile, and then I stick the fork in myself (which I keep handy by the remote).
Oklahoma kiddo @ 72
And Lordie! help the pups who try to link together the ongoing wars, even here.
RonD @ 8
Key ingredient for any such fascist coup is the false flag attack — Reichstag fire, Twin Towers attack…The question is, can this particular criminal gang currently encamped in the White House pull off another one?
darkblack @ 80
Amen!, uh – Ding!LS @ 61
must post snippet
Hugh @ 78
Hugh, with all due respect, I do not think that is a strawman argument. It is a valid question. The president is the Commander in Chief of the armed Forces. The SecDef works for the President (as well as the American public).
Why is having a retired General who has been retired for X number of years as SecDef a bad thing but it’s OK for a retired general to be President.
I for one, think either situation is acceptable but you don’t and I’m curious as to why is all.
Hi OKK.
Just curious.
What to you think of Dodd?
Ed*ard Teller @ 86
It’s working out very well for those interests, no?
;>)
Adie @ 89
I like Senator Dodd. And I think he would make a good president.
I see her as the next Richard Nixon.
The war will be wound down much slower than any of us want; there will be a fairly liberal set of domestic policies; the assaults on our civil liberties will commence in the shadows at a much slower pace than currently.
Compared to what we have now, or what the current crop of gooper buffoons would inflict upon us — I’m sad to say I’d have to take Hill.
My guy Kucinich has no shot.
Adie @ 89
Not that I was asked, but, I like Dodd. Unfortunately, what’s holding him back is electability. That may change.
Oklahome kiddo @ 69
The She-Lieberman.
How, in policy terms, is she all that different from Guliani? Both pro-choice, pro-invasion, right?
darkblack @ 90
Oedipuss Wrecks…
Ed*ard Teller @ 85
Thwack?
Ed*ard Teller @ 83
yeah, for some reason I didn’t want to step in that one.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 41
Funny, that was my second thought! I sure wish he would have waited until oh, say, Thanksgiving. It seems to me the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize will be named and I think we’ll know better whether Gore will step in. I think I remember that Gore backed Clark in 2004. Didn’t Gore also back Howard Dean?
darkblack @ 89
Quit that! 707
solai @ 49
OMG. Good night and good luck Senator.
hey, greenspan is throwing bush under the bus;
from the wall street journal
now greemspan has alot of nerve, he is the person that thought it was a fine idea to use the excess of social security to fund the tax giveaways they actually had the nerve to call “tax reduction”
twȝk @ 97
I greatly admire your restraint, tw?k. My head just about flew off.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 91
I like Edwards and Dodd.
I think Dodd would be an excellent nominee. He’s as articulate in Spanish as in English. I’ve seen him on Spanish stations in Florida and it’s kind of astonishing.
cleter @ 94
Who is the Clinton campaign’s foreign policy advisor of record? Giuliani’s is John Podhoretz.
Cliff Varnell @ 91
I can’t say I disagree with you.
ccmask @ 100
mccain has nothing to loose and is forced to throw up hail maries
he’s desperate and is trying to energize the base
ccmask @ 100
If you want to live in a dictatorship, Senator, then by all means move to one. If our freedom makes you uncomfortable, then leave. No one is making you stay here.
Hugh @ 78
And that’s a convenient way to avoid responding to what appears to be a fair question.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 90
Thanks for the cross-ref. I’ve always sorta liked him, but never looked closely. Now, the more I hear from him, the more I like. Smart, savvy, experienced, articulate, neither afraid nor even rattled by anything. A grown-up who tends to the people’s business instead of his own secret agenda. Hm-m-m.
Not bad. Not bad at all.
Hey, Regards to Lahoma. Hope you both are doing well. ;->
solai @ 92
The more I listen to Dodd, the more I really like him as a candidate. Even if he just throw his hat in to expand the debate I’m glad he has been getting the air time.
newtonusr @ 102
It can be frustrating when you agree with somebody you respect about everything but one thing, and neither of you can make any headway on that one thing. A microcosm of many intractable problems.
“1. Electing her would be a slap in the face of Bush – he did so much to belittle Clinton; her election would say we want his regime to be erased and back to what it was before he was appointed.”
There are many reasons why I am not supporting Senator Clinton, but I gotta say that in the end watching the collective eyeballs of the far right nutteratti pop out of their skulls at a second Clinton Presidency is somewhat appealing.
-GSD
newtonusr @ 101
More just stupidity on my part. I don’t have the background for that argument.
cleter @ 93
Egad. Hil’s not my first choice. BUT. I can’t find a thing in your pile there that I’d agree with! Mebbe try the artist’s brush for awhile instead of the floor-mop, eh?
Ed*ard Teller @ 111
I thought he was wise at that late hour to head off to bed. One sticky wicket, that.
Yet here’s McCain’s response to the Boehner comment “He just misspoke.” McCain is an id10t.
I am still waiting for the stampede moment.
*Newt Gingrich just called for the distancing of the GOP from Bush.
There will be an event in the near future that will signal the total repudiation of Bush.
Some will do it publicly like Greespin, others will be like Bill Murray in Caddyshack after the priest he is caddying for gets struck by lightning.
Murray drops the priests golfbag, looks around and runs into the darkness.
-GSD
*Newt also laughably called for an end to destructive, partisan politics.
The man has chutzpah.
Ed*ard Teller @ 110
yup :/ He came on a little strong for what could be an enlightening discussion I thought.
Adie @ 114
No, I’m serious. Outline some policy differences for me. What are they?
How is Hillary not an old-style moderate Republican?
Adie @ 96
Islamonomatopoeiacs alert!…Launch the Aerial Incursion Pork Attack Craft!
;>)
twȝk @ 118
And as for your “stupidity”, who is really qualified to cut to the bone of that issue without it becoming a flame war of epic proportions? Not me, either.
GSD @ 116
where is kkkarl again?
Hello Adie.
lahoma.
Marilyn In Texas @ 59
All but the last of your reasons also apply to Al Gore, with especially good creds for #2.
Rove just turned over the quail wings on the grill and poured another mint julep for David Broder.
-GSD
darkblack @ 120
AAaarrgghhh! That’ll fill the Tehran air raid shelters real fast! What a porker.
Can you do one like that of that other pork producer, Ted Stevens, going down in flames? I’ll make it my screensaver for my college classroom powerpoint presentation – I promise!
newtonusr @ 121
i was tempted to jump in (ignorance is no impediment for me), but i thought better of it… last thing i needed was another reason not to be able to get to sleep.
How can we seriously address any issue when the mainstream media is so damn lopsided, unfair and unbalanced?
How can we have a serious debate about Iraq or anything else when the media is so lopsided in favor of Republicans?
http://mediamatters.org/items/200709140002?f=h_top
And so many on this board continue to argue that somehow Fox is “Fair and Balanced.” And the sky must be polka dotted too because you say so. Give me a break. The Republicans and a jerky billionaire have totally coopted a major broadcast network. So much for the Fairness Doctrine.
dakine01 @ 88
A President is not just the Commander in Chief. Lincoln managed a great war but I doubt you would be able to find anywhere any mention of his being the Commander in Chief. The office of the Presidency is much larger than this one role although this aspect of it has been what the Bush Administration has pushed in its attempts to usurp un-Constitutional powers.
OTOH the Secretary of Defense is just the Secretary of Defense. The Founders went out of their way to make it subservient to civilian control. Inserting a general to run it is the very thing they did not want. Civilian authorities are directly subject to the electorate. Military ones are not. Generals are not elected. It is a question of a largely unchecked concentration of power something the Founders sought to avoid with good reason.
Their fear may well have been the establishment of a military dictatorship. Mine is more of the concentration of military power in military hands. I do not wish to continually make reference to my sandals list but that is what it there for, to be a resource. I would direct you to item 44 which points out that all the top intelligence posts in the country are now held by generals and admirals, active duty and retired. It is not a healthy situation. The military may know what is best for itself but its caste like hierarchy means that it often does not know what is best for the country.
newtonusr @ 120
True, and as I think Ed was pointing out dubya’s little cake walk has truly compounded the issues.
It is imperative that we maintain the integrity of the state of Israel. I see no inconsistancy on this and granting a Palestinian homeland to the Palestinians.
twȝk @ 122
kkkarl is in a closet somewhere like J. Edgar Hoover using the domestic eavesdropping material to hold GWB’s opponents to extortion IMHOP
twȝk @ 130
And now, the territorial integrity of Israel lies in the hands of the nations most able to secure it, with much less guarantee that it will be so. I like my irony with some sizzle, but this is something else all together.
Have we given thought as to where we would be today if the Israeli-Palestinian situation had been solved years ago?
twȝk @ 109
Please! EVERYONE tune up and say what you think. I’m begging you. I just usually have trubble getting any responses, so chose OKK ’cause him’s so sweet, i knew he’d reply – awwwww… ;->
With a field as crowded as the current one, it’s hard not to imagine a couple/several(?) of the main-street-bright-lights might not eliminate eachother. Stranger things have happened. For that reason, I am eternally grateful so far (heh heh, i know. jus’ leave it be) that I feel I COULD vote for ANY of the announced Democratic candidates over ALL repubbles – announced or not.
An aside: does anyone know how Dodd stacks up to the others on environmental voting record? That’s a BIGGIE in this household. Of course I could do my own homework & check with League of Conservation Voters, etc., but – it IS still “early”, right?! OMG, we’re gonna be emotional wrecks by the time of the election….
JD21 @ 127
And ABC
GSD @ 125
LOL. It’s funny how well we get to know each other. I knew you wrote this before I read the GSD.
Hugh @ 129
Hugh,
It may surprise you to know that the office of SecDef is a new creation post-WWII and that in the prior incarnation of Secretary of War, there were a few Generals and West Point grads that held the post.
Let’s just say I disagree with your analysis on this going forward and let it go from now.
Jim Clausen @ 131
i dunno, I can imagine rove throwing dubya under the bus to further the GOP. He gets that then the GOP gets revisionist history rights.
GSD @ 116
Oh, is that what it’s called? But why’s it steaming?
newtonusr @ 132
seriously, a little too hot for my taste.
There will never be peace in the Middle East without a Palestinian homeland. This is not necessarily a sufficiant condition. But it is a necessary condition for peace. The view is if the next president would locate this at the top of the ‘to do’ agenda it just might help diffuse the volitility of the region.
twȝk @ 130
As have many Israelis in articles, books and actions. My friend is in total denial about what really transpired last summer in Lebanon, as illustrated by his confusing the term “collective punishment” as having to only deal with the 700 or so checkpoints in the West Bank being comparable to the lines we have to endure at our airports. He seems to be refusing to familiarize himself with the collective punishment aspects of the awful and totally unnecessary destruction of civilian infrastructure and of the environmental catastrophes visited upon innocent Lebanese at about this time last year.
I’m not leaving, just gotta do some morning work – I’ll be bouncing in and out of here…
Ed*ard Teller @ 143 –
imo, the checkpoints and daily hardship and violence is really hard to understand it w/out experiencing it. i’d read about it and heard a friend talk about his trip to the west bank… but it wasn’t until i went (and stayed with palestinian families) that i really started to “get it”.
Adie @ 134
Oklahoma kiddo @ 142
I truly believe that it is impossible to make it into the finals as a presidential candidate if one openly suggests such an agenda, or even posits that it might be fair to have an “even playing field” on this issue.
In the spring of 2004, within 72 hours of Howard Dean’s statement that we should treat Palestinian and Israeli demands regarding territorial integrity in that area even-handedly, his campaign was turned into toast in one of the most amazing media turnarounds I’ve ever witnessed.
Ann in AZ @ 98:
Gore ain’t gonna step in. I bet $5 that he would, and I’ve already paid off.
LS @ 65
Oh shit. This is just like the David Kelly ’suicide’. My tinfoil is pretty thin, but sometimes coincidences are just too strong. On the other hand, it is physically possible for a coin flip to come up 100 times head. I just wouldn’t put much money on that bet.
Re the Israeli strike in Syria, here is the article from Haaretz:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/903398.html
It’s kind of funny that they refer to a Middle Eastern expert just below a picture they put up of John Bolton. Whatever they hit or tried to hit in Syria wasn’t much. The Syrians don’t have anything that could be called a nuclear program. It appears to be more Israeli posturing and bullying without any real aim, purpose, or efficacy.
I agree on the hypocrisy angle. I doubt that the Israelis would consider an attack on Demona to be legitimate.
dakine01 @ 138
How utterly condescending.
Ed*ard Teller @ 146
“In the spring of 2004, within 72 hours of Howard Dean’s statement…”
Are there ways to overcome that outcome?
Ed*ard Teller @ 146
Yep. And I leave this field untilled as I go to work, hoping to return and find FDL free from the factional and overly passionate strain this issue brings.
I leave it to the wiser among us.
LS @ 40
Thank you, LS, for bringing this to our attention. I am proud of these people for disrupting the Heritage Foundation, proud to be a fellow American with those who spoke out.
what has happened to that A*P*C espionage case?
Edited and released by Mods
Knut Wicksell @ 148
Folks, an Air Force A1C is a two striper E3. As a security policeman he would NOT be alone on the flightline but would have at least one or two other SPs with him as well as the crew from the Munitions Maintenance Squadron. We’re talking a group of people now approaching a dozen in total, only a small number of which would even know anything at all about the munitions being loaded. An SP is NOT someone who would be causing fear to the powers that be here.
My strategy for the Dems:
First send Bush the legislation that will quickly and responsibly result in the end of our occupation in Iraq bringing all American troops home. If/when he vetoes it, send it back and force hime to veto it again. After following this course send him exactly what he wants only impose a massive tax increase on corporations and individuals with incomes in the top 10% to pay for the war and eliminate the annuasl deficit for the current fiscal year. If he wants his war and occupation for his rich paymasters then make them pay for it.
Hugh @ 129
Which is exactly how we got into the positive feedback loop which is the military/industrial complex.
Hugh @ 150
To be honest with you, I have far more fear of more Rumsfeldian types from the MIC as SecDef than I would ever have from a retired General. Especially given recent history. So as I say, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
newtonusr @ 152
but, newtonusr, if we can figure out how to do it, maybe there’s hope the country could have the discussion without losing friends and creating enemies… ?
Ed*ard Teller @ 126
Just for you, ET… Squeakarus.
;>)
jim o’connor @ 155
Yeah!
selise @ 158
I agree, as I leave. But you were with us last night, and read the comment in question. I don’t mind banging heads a little, but there is a point when further discussion is past the “more light, less heat” stage. As I said, there are wiser and more restrained folks here. I would not have brought enough light to the topic. Not yet.
Clients beckon.
I hope the fact that Greenspan said the war is about oil will shake up a few of the gung-ho “patriots”, so that they finally realize why W is using their families’ lives as cannon fodder for neocon war-profiteering. It should be on the front page all over the place.
darkblack @ 160
I’m already totally in love with your art! And now the most enduring image of St. Ted there ever was!
{{{{{darkblack!!}}}}}
selise @ 158
Which in a way points back to needing a progressive majority that would enable a healthy informative dialogue within the nation.
O/t -
It would appear that UC Irvine might have been taking a lot of incoming over its decision to “unhire” Chemerinsky:
http://www.latimes.com/news/lo…..ome-center
darkblack @ 159
rofl!
LS @ 162
Chris Shays admitted it a couple of days ago. I’m sure it was by mistake. From C&L
“Clark endorsed Hillary”
Good bet for a VP pick if Hillary wins the nomination.
More news stories about Condi hidin in the closet. If all the goopers start comin out a the closet it’s gonna look like a clown show at the circus where endless clowns come out of one tiny car.
“The demonstrators were immediately confronted by several hundred counter-protesters, who came to the Mall to demand that politicians see the war through to victory. At a large stage on the Mall at 7th Street, speakers said they did not want to abandon the Iraqi people, as they said America had done in ending the Vietnam war, and that they wanted soldiers to be shown respect when they returned from Iraq.
Anti war protesters who approached the fringes of the counterdemonstration on the Mall were quickly chased off. One man in a tie dye t-shirt was surrounded by several screaming counterdemonstrators who called him a traitor. He replied, “Is this what we’ve come to,” before being escorted away by police.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00826.html
Waccamaw @ 165
Good!
rwcole @ 169
707
LS @ 171
we really have to turn make their tools impotent
we have to start every demonstration by calling THEM traitors
that will difuse the weapon they THINK they have
OT – any updates on the protests in DC? I watched a video of a woman being arrested for putting up a sign with wheat paste.
Many officers, an officer on horseback and police car with siren. This woman’s son has done two tours in Iraq and is 80% disabled.
They arrested her for putting up a poster saying March to Stop the War
September 15
If anyone is interested, I’ll find the link at DKOS.
This paragraph of the Wapo protest link above cracked me up:
“It will be a lot of bull horns, a lot of ’singing God Bless America’, ” said Betty Kilbride, 48, of Arlington, a writer who described herself as supporting the troops. Deborah King-Lile, 55, of St. Augustine, Fla. said the Gathering of Eagles prided themselves on not being arrested at protests. “We just want a chance to show America we don’t agree with the vocal minority.”
Vocal Minority?
The protest drew people of all ages. In the midst of the crowd, a small group of young people dressed in black smoked a marijuana joint. The crowd ranged from hippies and Buddhist monks to people dressed more conservatively.
Overall the rallies were peaceful. There were sporadic confrontations between protesters and counterprotesters, including some counterprotesters wearing “War Dogs” motorcycle jackets who confronted the protesters and threw fake punches before riding off.
The rally, organized by the ANSWER Coalition and other groups, was expected to conclude with a march to the Capitol.”
http://www.examiner.com/a-9364…..pitol.html
perris @ 174
here is what we really have to do;
every single demonstration there has GOT to be at least 1/4 of the signs calling the supporters of the war
TRAITORS
who abuse our troops for the purpose of stealing money at the cost of their lives
that will SHUT THEIR FRIGGIN FACE
sorry but I get STEAMED when these morons call US traitors when it is clearly THEM
What is it with Bush and benchmarks too? Since when is not meeting your own benchmarks called success?
ccmask @ 175
707!
Tie-dyed t-shirts, smoking joints, hippies, buddist monks….
Dirty, f’ing hippies…ruining America I tell you.
cleter @ 118
I hope you’ll let me beg off. I find joepourjoe to be a repulsive human being. Gut feel, which counts for nothing – i know. No background other than 66 yrs (next week ;->) of watching and judging, grad degree in behavior, some considerable experience in having to deal with politicians, their egos vs bare-bones reality issues….
Joe lights up the sleaze-factor warning signals way more than anyone for me other than jr/shooter or newt & the like (a bunch of other repubbles – mcCONel, lott, …).
I wouldn’t trust joe to carry out the trash.
I’d watch Hil carefully, but yeah, I’d give her benefit of the doubt. She’s got super-size woman-in-politics ego – more than necessary? – i dunno. Don’t know her that well. She might be overly bluster-y trying to project a feeling of fortitude for campaign purposes, or, she might be a bully. TBA
She’d be way down my list, because of some policy and priorities issues over which I’m pretty sure she & I wouldn’t agree (definitely doesn’t pass my environmental issues sniff test, till proven otherwise). I think she’s made some major mistakes (yes, the war…). But, I think she’s competent, and no, not just from experience as a prez’s wife.
I’d far rather have Edwards – multiple reasons; lots having to do with presumed honesty and honest desire to serve rather than pillage; bright, very articulate, truly seems to feel driven to serve the greater good.
It would be TERRIFIC if Gore decided to run – i’d vote for him in a split second on policy & priorities, sense of honesty and competence….
…more than you wanted to know, from someone who’s not a pro at this stuff of politics.
Ya know? The Horse Whisperer movie was panned by the guy upon whose life it was based. He always wished the producers had used his real title, The Man Who Listens to Horses.
That’s what I do, with politicians. I can’t really call it professional, but it’s based upon professional training, and it works for me, informing my “gut feel”.
Critically important also is the rule of thumb:
“pretty is as pretty does”. FGS, if we ALL had only followed Molly Ivins’ urgent plea to LOOK at shrub’s RECORD. Not what he said, but what he DID. If only!?! All the clues were there. He’d never have become preznit.
And shooter? What can I say? Look at the record of abuses and he shouldn’t even be dawgcatcher.
so don’t get me started… heh.
(((peace)))
And how is it that Bush can say “We don’t torture” and then at the same time pass legislation that mandates torture?
“Total Debt Outstanding: $9,016,288,006,279.21
A Note From President George W. Bush to the future generations of America:
Here’s the total cost for my stupidity. I thought you could cut taxes, increase spending and go to war all at the same time and it would work out OK. I was wrong. Sorry.”
From the Bonddad blog 9-15-07.
End it now or start paying for it now.
“But veterans’ groups that seek to protect the memorial from vandalism are suspicious that anti-war protesters are to blame. “Even on the outside chance that it was [an] accident, things like that shouldn’t be happening,” Kristin Taylor, a spokesman for the Gathering of Eagles (GOE), told Cybercast News Service.
GOE is a coalition of veterans’ groups and pro-military organizations that organizes counter-demonstrations during anti-war marches. Taylor said “there are incidents around the country of war memorials being … vandalized” and pointed to apparent threats on a leftist/anarchist Web site to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.
An Aug. 27 comment posted on the DC Indymedia Web site said that “if they [GOE] come to our march we will spray the wall.” The comment was referring to an anti-war protest scheduled for Sept. 15. GOE has advertised that it will counter-protest.
The threat to spray the wall may not be genuine, however, as others who posted messages on the Web site accuse its anonymous author of being “FReeper scum,” a reference to conservatives who use the discussion Web site Free Republic.”
http://www.crosswalk.com/news/11553871/
The administration just says whatever is convenient.
twȝk @ 172
Indeed. The comments are a depressing read, though.
darkblack @ 80
An excerpt from a Reuters piece:
http://www.reuters.com/article…..1320070914
“Some critics of the anti-missile system have warned the plan could be torpedoed if a Democrat president is elected next year after Republican George W. Bush, but a visiting senior Democrat said her party was behind the project.
“We wanted to come today to make very clear that we are very supportive… of missile defense,” Ellen Tauscher, chairwoman of the House Armed Services Strategic Forces Subcommittee, said after meeting Czech Deputy Prime Minister Alexandr Vondra in Prague. “
This is a demoRAT. Concrete evidence of culpability with the Military-Industrial Complex. If you needed any. . .
Blue America is upstairs with an exciting new candidate for Congress in California. Howie brings us Ron Shepston live for our questions.
Blue America: Ron Shepston, A California Blogger Challenging An Extreme Right Winger In CA-42
Please stay on-topic for our guests in Blue America, you are welcome to continue on other topics in this thread, thanks.
The inmates have taken over the asylum, and are running it with relentless vigor. The societal institutions and mechanisms that are supposed to allow for productive change are irreparably broken or effectively sabotaged.
It’s time to start reading the Declaration of Independence instead of the damn Bible! Just Google it.
LS @ 65
I’m as paranoid as the next guy. Assuming, like Freud, that there are no accidents, what were they going to do with the nuclear weapons?