Damn, damn and double damn. Somebody noticed that people, regular people (not just us lawyers and maybe some reporters--but goddamn dirty F****** hippies) were using the Internet to follow what is going on in criminal cases; and they are considering putting a stop to all that.
Back in the old days, the only way to access a case file was to physically go into the courthouse, sign out the file from the court clerk's office and sit there in the clerk's office reading it. If you were lucky, there might be a largely un-usable photo copy machine that would eat most of your quarters and give you a couple of barely legible copies.
Being a lawyer is SUCH a glamorous job.
The only folks who would really do much of that kind of thing were: lawyers who were in the courthouse anyway, reporters who get paid to go get information, and a few lay people who cared passionately about a given case and were willing to take a weekday off from their day jobs to go to the courthouse. Anybody remember Pach's famous trip to go get transcripts of one of the Libby pre-trial proceedings?
Now, due to the wonders of ECF, the federal court's "Electronic Case Management" system and it's companion "PACER" which allows anyone with a credit card registered with the PACER system to download and print PDF's of the documents filed with the court; any pajama clad, pasty faced basement dweller can access, read and print copies of almost all the documents filed with the court. The usual exceptions to that being things filed ex parte or things filed under seal.
On September 10th, The Court Administration and Case Management Committee of the Judicial Conference of the United States opened a comment period for public comment on a proposal to restrict access to plea agreements in criminal cases.
To understand what you will lose out on if this restriction goes into effect, check out Marcy's post here.
The purported rationale for this is that these plea agreements "may" contain information identifying defendants who are cooperating with law enforcement.
That's just silly. Any AUSA worth spit knows how to use the phrase "confidential informant A" (or B or C as the case may be). If the Regent Law School grads are too dumb to do that, well....
Now more seriously. If you review the incremental work of the judicial conference in this area, over the past few years you will see that they have actually been liberalizing public access to this kind of information. And our beloved Judge Hogan made history by allowing live blogging of the Libby Trial.
LHP ♥s federal judges.
So, pups. I think this request for comments might actually be a request to those of us out here who actually make good and valuable use of the access they have so thoughtfully provided, to help them help us. After all, this is the groundbreaking site that brought the world the first liveblogged federal trial. You all have lots of credibility on this issue.
I think it would be quite useful to them if they received many well reasoned and eloquent comments that explain why transparency is so vital, and how the harms they fear can be minimized. Before writing, if you can spare the time, take a read through the second link and see what they have done and how they have surgically addressed prior privacy concerns.
In the comment period, they are also seeking alternative suggestions rather than a mere "yeah" or "nay". So, this is your opportunity to offer your own suggestions about public access to the federal courts system.
When was the last time someone gave YOU an opportunity to help set a policy for all the federal courts to follow? I think the US Judicial Conference is exhibiting the healthiest regard for participatory Democracy we have seen in quite a while, so let's respond in kind. Please keep your emails to them, respectful and constructive---and on point---we want this outreach to be SO successful that they will repeat it in future.
Maybe some other branches of government might even be shamed into following suit?
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Wow. Sure hope they don’t shut this down…
Damn and double Damn from my basement with my pajamas on.
Zed!
Great post and great idea to comment. Thanks LHP
So close
Server seems to be under stress at the moment?
Everyday we lose more and more of our privacy, yet our government becomes more and more secret.
Hi looseheadprop!
LHP “I think the US Judicial Conference is exhibiting the healthiest regard for participatory Democracy we have seen in quite a while, so let’s respond in kind.”
And if ever there was a time that they need to help restore the American public’s faith in our Judicial system the time is NOW!
Looseheadprop! Thank you for this. The idea of being able to influence a decision of this magnitude is thrilling.
lhp - are your posts getting snarkier/funnier or is it just the way I read them?
On the serious note - I would love to write some comments. Does anyone have any suggestions on structure for this type of comment?
(I started laughing at your first paragraph –too, too many afternoons killed trying to get the copy machine or even the microfiche machine to make decent copies, all the way back to my legal assistant days. No one wants to go back to those days!)
Thanks LHP. IANAL, but knowing we have so many legal minds on this site gives me hope.
Was it Walton or Hogan who authorized the bloggers for Libby?
4 zeds= 1 zip. I win!!!
Mod: I had trouble with the comments. Reloaded page and had it posted twice. Please remove one. Thanx. [Mod: Done.]
Nobody writes a respectful, constructive email like yours truly.
This is so very important. I’m in.
LHP so is there any evidence that this access has been abused, caused interference, etc etc?
Off topic BIG news. Reported at Kos and elsewhere, the Golden Boy of Bush in Anbar has been blowed up! The self-appointed Big Dawg of the so-called “Anbar Awakening”, just 10 days after being photographed shaking Bushie’s pasty hand, is now hamburger helper.
Read it and the links. Abu Ardvark (linked in the post) also has some good poop on the Dead Golden Boy.
OT comment. I love the great posts and comments here - and the traditions (zeds, lurking mods, snark, cuppa, recipes, TREX) and the format, i.e. new comments at the bottom so you can tell what is new since the last time you peaked. I find reading the Kos comments much harder that way, because I don’t feel like reading everything again a third time.
Should we mention that “looseheadprop” encouraged us to write? Just kidding.
Richmond @ 18
Now Richmond:
Only the cognoscenti (that is, members of the zedocracy and zedophiles) will understand what you’re saying here…*g*
In that news release from the Federal Judicary, they say “All comments should also include an email address and a fax number, if available, as well as an indication of whether the commentator is interested in participating in a public hearing, if one is held.”
Hmmm . . . a public hearing . . . hmmm . . .
If there’s a proposal to expand an airport, the relevant policymaking group generally holds at least one hearing in the vicinity of the airport, to hear what the locals think. If there’s a proposal to change the rules around a national park, there’s generally at least one session in or near the park. If they’re going to propose restricting internet access, it makes sense that they’d hold at least one hearing on the internet. But the internet is a big place, so let’s narrow it down a bit.
Maybe FDL could to offer to host a public hearing for them. It’s not my place to make that offer — that’s Jane and Christy’s call — but I’d love to hear them say “We’re not just interested in participating, but we’ll supply the website, tech support, etc. to make it happen. This is important, and an online public hearing would be a powerful way of demonstrating public interest in online access.”
Great post, LHP, and definitely one that needs input from the online public.
Praedor Atrebates @ 22
If I’m not mistaken that’s the guy that CNN’s Michael Ware did a piece on the other day
OMG,
This is so important even I, the lowly mechanic am going to respond.
The Libby trial was so riveting, the legal analysis so thorough, that we all became slaves to the latest PACER filing. I cannot express how important that is. Letter wring mode on.
Thank you so much LHP!
But… but…but how are we going to slip into despotic, authoritarian tyranny if we keep demanding transparency from our government.
Biodun @ 25
*g* back at you!
Richmond @ 23:
You’re leaving out such FDL goodies like EPU’d, Tweety, Timmeh, Chimpy, 707, ROTFLMO, and so on.
And I agree with you that FDL is not simply “a blog somewhere” (to quote the CBS News email to the MoveOn member in Christy’s post yesterday).
So could ANY lawyer get access? Would reporters have to get law degrees to cover the crime beat?
What are the practical consequences of this- seems that the press would raise holy hell.
Biodun @ 28
yup. Not much of a writing day for me. Got a meeting in a few, then gotta prepare class for Monday. Gotta, gotta, gotta.
That’s just silly. Any AUSA worth spit knows how to use the phrase “confidential informant A” (or B or C as the case may be). If the Regent Law School grads are too dumb to do that, well….
If only it weren’t true! And now the Bushistas want to saddle us with one of the main instigators of their November 2000, coup - Ted Olson.
Bustednuckles @ 26
Bite your forked tongue. There is nothing lowly about having prized mechanical skills and knowledge. I, for one, desperately wish I had some.
It was interesting to see comments submitted previously
Comments Received in 2000-2001
Thank you LHP!
I second Marie Roget @ 22
While not a member of world’s second oldest profession, I’ve truly appreciated (almost surprizing) access to certain things. Would hate to lose such access, so ‘heads-up’ much
valued, indeed.
Elliott @ 11
Hi to you too
Cozumel @ 26
I saw that piece on CNN as well, it appears to be the same individual.
Peterr @ 25
Absolutely!
yellowsnapdragon @ 34
What yellowsnapdragon said.
Yesterday I spent 20 minutes figuring our how to open the garge door when the garge door opener broke.
(hint: the only mechanical toggle on the whole assembly is the cue….not the string hanging off the light assembly)
The Clusterfucker may have trouble finding Iraqis who want to share a photo op with him.
Somewhat related. I’m following a federal civil case…
http://www.charleston.net/news.....b_worries/
A couple of months ago the court clerk accidentally or mistakenly posted the Plaintiffs’ Memorandum in Opposition to Defendants’ Motion for Summary Judgment and the exhibits thereto online. As well as the Defendants deposition of the Plaintiff. Those were ALL supposed to be sealed documents. Whoops!
Kirk, my emergency thingy on the garage door opener looks like one of those hand pulls on a lawn mower. It is connected to a steel arm that disengages the chain that the motor runs. Is that what you meant by cue?
OT. Amazing Tweety interview with Vote vets (and a new Vote Vet ad too) Re. Petreus.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
tejanarusa @ 14
If you clicked on the first link, you will see that the Judicial COnference is encouraging the use of email for the comments.
Nonetheless, I would sugget you format you email in a formal letter way. You set it up to look like a letter.
Justice Ginsberg may end up reading what you write, so make it elegant for her.
I would suggest that you also check out this post of Marcy’s where she amply demonstrates how she has put that access to very good use uncovering wrongdoing.
For all we know, her work may even be helping the ivestigations along. I know that more than one prosecutor reads her on a regular basis.
Marcy’s use of on line access to thos eplea agreements is citizen investigation journalism at its very, very best.
Gnome de Plume @ 15
You don’t have to be a lawyer to send a comment
Gnome de Plume @ 43
Yep. I’m not very good with mechanical descriptions, either….
And I stay away from pool altogether. Not enough felt in the world….
Pachacutec @ 16
Marcy said Hogan, Why do I still have Walton? I thought I corrected that.
Bustednuckles @ 25
During the Libby trial the links to the case files etc deepened my understanding of the Judicial process and had me feeling that it really mattered if a peasant like myself understood what was going on. I felt part and parcel to the Judicial process and found myself questioning, understanding and appreciating what our Constitution and laws are based on. The direct access had me hungering for more information, more facts. I want to thank all of you lawyer folks and others here at FDL again for tolerating those of us who do not understand the law as well as many of you do.
At this time the lack of confidence in our Judicial system and congress is at an all time high! One would think the courts would see the value in allowing the common folks access.
In Petraeus- Clusterfuck found a guy who wants to ride a victory in Iraq into the White House- a perfect fit. He can’t be the noble victor unless he’s allowed ta keep fighting the fucking war- so he’s got all his eggs in Clusterfuck’s basket.
Kathleen @ 20
There is a rumor floating around that sounds like a WH/Gonzo spin to me about a website called “whosarat” that “outs” informants and undercover agents–some people are just twisted.
Anyway, I had a cruise around the whosarat site and they get their info from defense lawyers who were there for the plea allocution, from co-defendants, from others involved in the cases, or weirdly from tipsters in the government. (OT–WTF is up with that?)
So , whosarat’s access to this information and it’s abilty to add it to its rat database would be almost completely unaffected by this proposal.
The plea agreements and plea allocutions would still be publicly available, just not on the Internet.
So, the folks who out undercover’s will be unaffected and still in business, but folks like Christy and Marcy and Scarecrow, and (who ever I just left off this list is gonna hate me–I’m sosos sorry) will be shit otta luck and won’t be able to follow the Abramoff threads or the Cunningham threads where ever they may lead.
looseheadprop @ 45
Agreed — Too bad the Pulitzer committee requires that someone’s fine journalistic efforts must appear in a dead tree version of a newspaper to be considered for their prizes.
Wonder how americans would have responded back in 03 if they had been told:
“I’m gonna give ya all a chance to spend a trillion dollars or so and probably about 8,000 american lives in order to change the govt in Iraq from what it is now to something else- we have no fuckin idea what.”
How many would have cheered for that one?
Kathleen @ 23
I’m already getting email (or whatever messages are called at facebook) from judges. Which is very humbling and flattering. I cannot believe they have time or attention for me.
Kathleen @ 49
I second that. It was a moving experience to follow the trial, learn about procedure, and understand finally what a justice system is all about. And I double my thanks to everyone who made it possible for us to participate in that way.
Kathleen @ 49
You wax eloquent.
Thumbs up! And to them what spin spanners as well!
Bustednuckles @ 28
Mayor of the nearest town when I was a kid was the guy who repaired our tractors, bailers, pumps, & anything else that needed fixing. A genius w/amazing repair skills. Not lowly, but exalted describes the know-how & ingenuity of mechanics IMO…
rwcole @ 50
Too bad he’s riding a horse that tripped and fell out of the gate.
Here’s what I sent them -
Dear Court Administration Policy Staff,
Thank you for taking comments regarding Internet Access to certain
aspects of criminal cases involving cooperating defendants. While I
welcome and wholeheartedly endorse the same privacy protections for a
cooperating defendant as I would for any witness, it is my sincere
hope that you will equally take into consideration the public’s right
to know regarding the administration of Justice in our great Country.
I am not a lawyer, but I am an interested citizen who follows news of
our Justice system in action, and constantly marvels at how lucky we
are to live in such a free and transparent legal system. Much of what
I have learned in the last two years has come as a result of
blogging, where the better sites, on both right and left, take
filings before the various Courts and analyze them for their relation
to both precedent and prevailing circumstances. This ‘living civics’
approach has been invaluable in making me a better-informed citizen,
as I am sure it has for many others, as well.
Consider a redaction scheme, if you must, but by all means, please
leave the evidence of our fair and impartial system available to all
via the Web in plain, public view.
Again, thank you for opening your processes up to public comment: I
feel like a participant.
LHP - is this transparency just for Federal Courts?
Praedor Atrebates @ 21
Petraeus and Crocker hit town with their smoke and mirrors show. Look at the pretty graphs, look at the pretty charts, you are getting sleepy, very sleepy. They aren’t even out the door, the Great Decider has yet to pronounce his New New Way Forward, and the stats are in the trash, the mirrors are beginning to crack, the smoke to dissipate, and hopefully the Congress to wake up.
rwcole @ 53
You mean that ‘cakewalk’ thingy hasn’t gone as hoped?
Peterr @ 52
If Pulitzer can’t update their requirements, then maybe it’s time for a Big New Prestigious Award for reporting, regardless of whether trees were felled in the process.
they could call it the emptywheel or somethin’
Peterr @ 25
I have heard that the judges are very interested in the internet and how to move forward with it. Also, I think they want to understand blogging better because more and more cases will be cominghteir way involving free speech, copywrite, libal, etc.
Who know’s, maybe they might like the idea. Prior to it happening, I never would have beleived a federal court would allow the live blogging of a federal trial. Look how wrong I Was
Thank you for your kind comments, most people tend to look askanse at dirty fingernails.
Not being the most eloquent SOB on the planet, I never the less did indeed write them;
My sincere greetings.
I am but a lowly mechanic in this world and by writing to you on this subject this reflects the urgency of my feelings on this matter.
My first point on this matter should reflect on the ease it would be to refer to anyone concerned with privacy issues to refer to them anonymously.An examlple being subject ‘A’.
The now famous ‘Scooter” Libby trial was a national fixation for me and many others. The fact that it was one of the first to allow ‘Bloggers” access to the proceedings and be ‘Liveblogged” allowed many thousands of people to follow the trial almost instananeoulsy and even was referred to by the main stream media for it’s accuracy.
The analysis of the legal proceedings was revolutionary and groundbreaking and was in no small part available for mass consumption because of the availability of the PACER system.
I cannot stress the importance of transparacy and open access to information from our government and especially the justice department in this critical period of time.
Thank you for your time and consideration of my statements.
Sincerely,
Philip Paul
Complete with typos. LHP, you are teh real deal.
XOXO,
Busted
looseheadprop @ 52
So basically the DoJ argument is another bait and switch strawperson to distract from the real (albeit unstated) desire to maintain the secrecy and control this administration is infamous for. Wonderful. /s
looseheadprop @ 54
Wow! fun!
although it’s surprising judges have facebook pages.
rwcole @ 31
The information will still be open to the public, just not avaible online anymore. You would have to physically go the courthouse with your roll of quarters. If you are trying to follow a plea inthe Ted Stevens investigation, you would have to go to a courthouse in Alaska?
Did anyone get the Evite for Alberto Gonzalez’s DOJ going away party?
looseheadprop @ 51
That, right there, reveals the idiocy of this proposal.
If the purpose of the proposal was to safeguard informants, you seal off the whole damn file. Since that’s not the proposal being offered, it suggests that someone has a different purpose in mind.
Hmmm . . . Who might have a grudge against the blogs over a legal case? Who might want to pushback to salve a damaged ego?
Scooter? Cheney? Addington? Rove? Yoo? Team Irving? . . .
LHP, is there any way to determine where this proposal came from, other than “the Federal Judiciary”?
Not sure if this has been posted already, but Jane’s article at HuffPo rawks…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....64234.html
Gnome de Plume @ 43
Let me know if you have an opener question.
radiofreewill @ 59
Very nice!
I sent one..not elegant.
But it is done and makes clear there are less restrictive ways to accomplish this with regard to particular information about cooperation, such as filing a sealed addendum.
Elliott @ 35
Actually, I recommend that you all look at a few, if you can spare the time. You will get a feel for how to frame your comment and maybe some ideas for the as well
tbsa @ 72
That’s from yesterday afternoon and is about a dozen threads down.
A bit off topic but related.
What about C-span?? I keep it on as background noise when I study, so I’m very aware of it’s schedule. I’s time to register a massive complaint of bias to Brian Lamb ‘The Scheduler’.
Every, and I mean every right wing forum, speech event or group is aired live or repeated in prime viewing slots. Few Democratic or ‘Left’ events are treated as well.
Why is a Heritage event given prominence over a Congressional Democratic hearing with the likes of Bob Barr(R) about Constitutional matters? I never saw the hearing. I
Right now for a good example is a live Heritage event about the Iraq war, the #1 issue in Congress and America. And what does Lamb consider ‘balance’?
An old Aspen event on the media.
As if a having a free media is what the Left wing hipie Democrats ‘do’ v. the Right taking on more serious matters of war.
Lamb must be asked to step down!
dakine01 @ 76
I wasn’t here yesterday, busy registering people to vote. Forgive me….
Gnome de Plume @ 60
I’m not sure I understand your question. The federal courts are considering restricting an access the public currently enjoys.
They are asking for public comment before they reach a decsion.
so, yes, this proposal affects only the federal courts.
Cozumel @ 26
Doesn’t it remain to be seen if the dead sheik will now become a martyr and his followers will go after Al Qaeda even more strenuously now (if they find that an Al Qaeda IED killed him, that is.) Is someone else likely to step in to fill
his spacethe power vacuum his death will leave?HAZmaq @ 78
CSpan has never been identified as a “balanced” news organization nor has Brian lamb every shown any partiality to Dems. He’s a conservative business man with a business plan and biases. No more, no less.
Bustednuckles @ 65
They taught eloquent writng at mechanics school, Busted? That was a better letter than I would have written. Thank you.
Oh and XXOO right back attcha
LHP,
here is what I sent.
In case it is helpful to others:
The new regulations would fly in the face of the public interest with regard to public access and transparency about the resolution of criminal cases.
The proposed solution of restricting access is also not the least restrictive way of resolving the problem of possible disclosure of information identifying cooperating defendants. This could be accomplished through redaction or delay of publication of plea agreements. Similarly, parts of agreements that include disclosure of this information could be filed under seal as an amendment.
Our court process are supposed to be open to the fullest extent possible while still allowing for fair and just adjudication of cases. Shutting down or sharply restricting public access via the internet is not the correct solution.
Further, there is a high-level of public interest in the results of criminal cases, especially those involving crimes in the public sphere and involving public officials and public acts. Information contained in such plea bargains often contain appropriate and important information about the culpability and involvement of other people who have sought to improperly influence public acts.
The internet is an important tool and has contributed much to public access. Such restrictions would in the end also not be effective as parties who are truly connected and in jeopardy would still have access in person. The only limitation would be on those pubic-spirited citizens who cannot afford or are distant from the court building.
If the courts find they must restrict access because disclosure would hit hard at future prosecutions, the only logical rule would be to limit access to all. That, of course, would fundamentally change the way courts do business, and undermine the integrity of the public court system.
Bustednuckles @ 66
Hope you don’t mind if I use yr. email as a template for mine. I tend to get a little flowery sometimes. Yours is more direct, to the point- the no b.s. approach. You’re a mechanic, alright ;-)
LHP: I fixed it. No worries!
Elliott @ 67
I don’t understand how facebook works. Do they have to have facebok pages in oreder to write to mine?
rwcole @ 39
Superimpose an image of the millions of Iraqi refugees in Syria…like grains of sand with faces on them directly behind Bush. Tell the Iraqi Refugees it’s getting better.
When I think about Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz repeating mantras like we want to win the “hearts and minds” of the Iraqi people with their “compassionate conservatism”, I want to vomit. It is horrifying to think about what the Iraqi people are going through.
The Bush administration belongs at the Hague for War Crimes , for knowingly creating an enviroment for a genocide to take place.
The American public would rather not see what has taken place in Iraq since the invasion and the MSM is happy to comply.
Robert Fisk is another story
http://www.robert-fisk.com/ira....._page1.htm
Ann in AZ @ 81
If you read the post and the linked info at Abu Ardvark’s site, you will find that though this Sheik was “loved” by the US government, he was despised and distrusted by his fellow tribal sheiks. He and his boyz were “highway robbers” and “thieves” as it was. It is very very possible that he was blown away by fellow sunni rivals, NOT AQI.
off topic, sorry, but dod officials have officially called rumsfeld a moron for what he claimed in GQ, from think progress;
looseheadprop @ 80
It was really kind of a dumb question, as all of my experience is in family courts, as a child advocate. All my cases have been in county and state courts (Texas). I am working on a custody case where the original filings, hearings and pleadings are in Maryland. So I was dreaming about being able to access all of that stuff online rather than having to pay for (bad) copies.
Peterr @ 70
It is possible to write to the Judical Conference and ask them. I don’t know if they would tell, but it might not be a secret
LHP “The plea agreements and plea allocutions would still be publicly available, just not on the Internet.”
Which would cut the common folk out because we are not going to visit the courts to order the documents.
Maybe they want us to stay in the dark? Is that the ticket?