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	<title>Comments on: Pragmatism</title>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-963144</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-963144</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-961927&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;peanutbutter @ 107&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-961920&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Brisingamen @ 101&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;QuakerGirl @96: Agreed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;While I disagreed with Mr. Reagan on many things, I cannot dislike a man who brought acorns back from Camp David for the White House squirrels…&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s what I found so maddening about him.  Still, overall, he was not good for this country.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Reagan was NOT a bad man. He might have been a bit naive and in that crowd of wolves anyone would have been seen that way.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He was apparently a kind generous man who truly was affable and had a strong moral sense (the indignation).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Where he was weak was in having a more complete and modern vision of what was needed for those days.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He grew up before the Great depression and loved the Roaring 20s with all the freedom, excitement, opportunity and national pride. And, like so many of his generation, he was swept up in the charisma and compassion of FDR when the Great Depression took hold. Where he parted company was when Soc*alists began to have more say than Reagan approved. That’s not an unreasonable position. It would’ve put Reagan in the Progressive to Liberal range of thought.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But, Reagan did something typical of his social set and the culture of those days. He went hard Right and opposed the Left of any variety. He didn’t forget the rhetoric of the Left and often used it in the 1980 campaign, especially near the end when they felt free to go after more Dems.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What did he use his terrific ‘leadership’ skills for? He ‘fought the Soviet Empire’ and he simplified the tax code.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Was it worth it? Well, if you had just Reagan it wouldn’t have been so bad. But, we also had Cheney and Bush 41 in that administration and they built the coalition that brought us to where we are today. They also gave us the Savings &amp; Loan collapse and allowed corporations which were failing to steal people’s retirement funds. And, they helped the Iranian terrorist government and the Contras in South America — both were illegal and should’ve gotten Reagan impeached.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I opposed him, but only for his policies. I had no idea Bush &amp; Co were so hard at work destroying America and promoting their own agenda.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sure, Reagan was personally harmless, but we can’t afford naivete, ignorance or Alzheimer’s Disease in the presidency.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;~~~&lt;em&gt;ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.&lt;/em&gt;~~~&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-961927"><em>peanutbutter @ 107</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-961920"><em>Brisingamen @ 101</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>QuakerGirl @96: Agreed.</p>
<p>While I disagreed with Mr. Reagan on many things, I cannot dislike a man who brought acorns back from Camp David for the White House squirrels…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That’s what I found so maddening about him.  Still, overall, he was not good for this country.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Reagan was NOT a bad man. He might have been a bit naive and in that crowd of wolves anyone would have been seen that way.</p>
<p>He was apparently a kind generous man who truly was affable and had a strong moral sense (the indignation).</p>
<p>Where he was weak was in having a more complete and modern vision of what was needed for those days.</p>
<p>He grew up before the Great depression and loved the Roaring 20s with all the freedom, excitement, opportunity and national pride. And, like so many of his generation, he was swept up in the charisma and compassion of FDR when the Great Depression took hold. Where he parted company was when Soc*alists began to have more say than Reagan approved. That’s not an unreasonable position. It would’ve put Reagan in the Progressive to Liberal range of thought.</p>
<p>But, Reagan did something typical of his social set and the culture of those days. He went hard Right and opposed the Left of any variety. He didn’t forget the rhetoric of the Left and often used it in the 1980 campaign, especially near the end when they felt free to go after more Dems.</p>
<p>What did he use his terrific ‘leadership’ skills for? He ‘fought the Soviet Empire’ and he simplified the tax code.</p>
<p>Was it worth it? Well, if you had just Reagan it wouldn’t have been so bad. But, we also had Cheney and Bush 41 in that administration and they built the coalition that brought us to where we are today. They also gave us the Savings &amp; Loan collapse and allowed corporations which were failing to steal people’s retirement funds. And, they helped the Iranian terrorist government and the Contras in South America — both were illegal and should’ve gotten Reagan impeached.</p>
<p>I opposed him, but only for his policies. I had no idea Bush &amp; Co were so hard at work destroying America and promoting their own agenda.</p>
<p>Sure, Reagan was personally harmless, but we can’t afford naivete, ignorance or Alzheimer’s Disease in the presidency.</p>
<p>~~~<em>ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.</em>~~~</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-963127</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 06:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-963127</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-961890&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Kathy/Fozzetti @ 73&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The Repugs are screaming about the Betrayus Ad because it HURT&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree, but there’s a bit more to the story.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Blue Dog Dems, led by Steny Hoyer and Rahm Emanuel, have been staging an offensive within the Democratic party in the last couple of weeks. I think it might be related to the presidential candidate’s fight and the difficulty Hillary Clinton has when the House leader pursues policies Hillary doesn’t support.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Progressive Dems have to stand together and win the argument that our continued presence in Iraq is immoral, unsuccessful, wasteful of money and lives and political suicide. If we let the Blue Dog Dems run over us despite our majority, then how can we be ready to govern the whole country?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Stand and fight for the Right!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-961890"><em>Kathy/Fozzetti @ 73</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The Repugs are screaming about the Betrayus Ad because it HURT</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I agree, but there’s a bit more to the story.</p>
<p>The Blue Dog Dems, led by Steny Hoyer and Rahm Emanuel, have been staging an offensive within the Democratic party in the last couple of weeks. I think it might be related to the presidential candidate’s fight and the difficulty Hillary Clinton has when the House leader pursues policies Hillary doesn’t support.</p>
<p>Progressive Dems have to stand together and win the argument that our continued presence in Iraq is immoral, unsuccessful, wasteful of money and lives and political suicide. If we let the Blue Dog Dems run over us despite our majority, then how can we be ready to govern the whole country?</p>
<p>Stand and fight for the Right!</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-963118</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 06:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-963118</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-961872&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Peterr @ 58&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-961859&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;selise @ 47&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;but wasn’t &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/090607J.shtml&quot;&gt;emanuel appointed to dccc by pelosi&lt;/a&gt; when she was minority leader?&lt;br /&gt;
…
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) is an elected position in the Democratic caucus, not appointed by the party leader …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t recall whether Nancy supported Rahm in the various leadership elections, but if so I’d guess that it was a hardball political deal where Nancy said “I support you for the #3 post, if you support me for speaker.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It appears he’s using that vantage point (behind her) to aim his dagger well.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If the Progressive caucus is the largest in the House then they need to get together to support her and fend off the Blue Dogs.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Then they need to find a good compromise position on the war. Internecine fighting isn’t constructive during stressful times such as this.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But, clearly, one way or another, the majority rule must hold or we don’t stand up to the “Democratic” label.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-961872"><em>Peterr @ 58</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-961859"><em>selise @ 47</em></a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>but wasn’t <a href="http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/090607J.shtml">emanuel appointed to dccc by pelosi</a> when she was minority leader?<br />
…
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) is an elected position in the Democratic caucus, not appointed by the party leader …</p>
<p>I don’t recall whether Nancy supported Rahm in the various leadership elections, but if so I’d guess that it was a hardball political deal where Nancy said “I support you for the #3 post, if you support me for speaker.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It appears he’s using that vantage point (behind her) to aim his dagger well.</p>
<p>If the Progressive caucus is the largest in the House then they need to get together to support her and fend off the Blue Dogs.</p>
<p>Then they need to find a good compromise position on the war. Internecine fighting isn’t constructive during stressful times such as this.</p>
<p>But, clearly, one way or another, the majority rule must hold or we don’t stand up to the “Democratic” label.</p>
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		<title>By: Annie Haygood</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-963103</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie Haygood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 06:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-963103</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;For once and for all time: John Kerry, go fuck yourself.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For once and for all time: John Kerry, go fuck yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: dunderhead</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-963079</link>
		<dc:creator>dunderhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-963079</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Toxic to Democrats, indeed. I agree. 2008 is not a done deal. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I say Democratic leaders own the war because they have not stopped it by cutting off funding. Tipping point for me is the death of two&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/12/0926/28618&quot;&gt; messengers in the New York Times. &lt;/a&gt; Yance T. Gray and Omar Mora, thank you for telling us the truth.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Others say I am too harsh, that Pelosi and Reid only ‘own stock’ in Iraq, that they can still cash out of a bad position and avoid future loss.  I hope that is true. But it won’t be true until Democrats, with or without Republicans, start stopping the war.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toxic to Democrats, indeed. I agree. 2008 is not a done deal. </p>
<p>I say Democratic leaders own the war because they have not stopped it by cutting off funding. Tipping point for me is the death of two<a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/12/0926/28618"> messengers in the New York Times. </a> Yance T. Gray and Omar Mora, thank you for telling us the truth.</p>
<p>Others say I am too harsh, that Pelosi and Reid only ‘own stock’ in Iraq, that they can still cash out of a bad position and avoid future loss.  I hope that is true. But it won’t be true until Democrats, with or without Republicans, start stopping the war.</p>
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		<title>By: Alecia</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-962824</link>
		<dc:creator>Alecia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 03:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-962824</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A lot of other countries are far ahead of us in terms of developing alternative energy and research work. The fact that we are spending billions per week chasing down a few militas in Iraq for a can of oil that we may not eventually get is ridiculous.&lt;br /&gt;
If oil prices goes higher, it may not be attributed to the fact we pulled out of Iraq prematurely, but that as to how oil prices is being set in the future, eg. say in Euros and not in dollars as currently. In that case then it would become much more costly to operate our economy. That’s my understanding of the whole cat and mouse oil game.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of other countries are far ahead of us in terms of developing alternative energy and research work. The fact that we are spending billions per week chasing down a few militas in Iraq for a can of oil that we may not eventually get is ridiculous.<br />
If oil prices goes higher, it may not be attributed to the fact we pulled out of Iraq prematurely, but that as to how oil prices is being set in the future, eg. say in Euros and not in dollars as currently. In that case then it would become much more costly to operate our economy. That’s my understanding of the whole cat and mouse oil game.</p>
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		<title>By: Praedor Atrebates</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-962373</link>
		<dc:creator>Praedor Atrebates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 01:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-962373</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tell your reps that they get us out of Iraq by forcing a REAL withdrawal as opposed to the bogus “withdrawal” down to pre-surge levels (that was planned all along due to operational limitations) or they will get a repeat of the 1968 Democratic Convention.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tell your reps that they get us out of Iraq by forcing a REAL withdrawal as opposed to the bogus “withdrawal” down to pre-surge levels (that was planned all along due to operational limitations) or they will get a repeat of the 1968 Democratic Convention.</p>
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		<title>By: larue</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-962313</link>
		<dc:creator>larue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 01:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-961927&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;peanutbutter @ 107&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-961920&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Brisingamen @ 101&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;QuakerGirl @96: Agreed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;While I disagreed with Mr. Reagan on many things, I cannot dislike a man who brought acorns back from Camp David for the White House squirrels…&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s what I found so maddening about him.  Still, overall, he was not good for this country.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He was not good for CA either . . . single handedly destroyed the Gold of our Golden State  . . .&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-961927"><em>peanutbutter @ 107</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-961920"><em>Brisingamen @ 101</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>QuakerGirl @96: Agreed.</p>
<p>While I disagreed with Mr. Reagan on many things, I cannot dislike a man who brought acorns back from Camp David for the White House squirrels…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That’s what I found so maddening about him.  Still, overall, he was not good for this country.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>He was not good for CA either . . . single handedly destroyed the Gold of our Golden State  . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-962311</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 01:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Where is Richardson?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where is Richardson?</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-962305</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 01:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/12/pragmatism/#comment-962305</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What about Gore/Feingold&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Clinton/Feingold&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Gore/Wesley Clark&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about Gore/Feingold</p>
<p>Clinton/Feingold</p>
<p>Gore/Wesley Clark</p>
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