Howie Klein tells us there’s good news. From The Hill:
Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.) is encouraging anti-war activists to find challengers to centrist Democrats, with the aim of moving the party to the left and ramping up opposition to the war in Iraq, to the chagrin of top Democratic aides.
“You folks should go after the Democrats,” Woolsey said in response to a suggestion from an activist during a conference call last month organized by the Network of Spiritual Progressives.
“I’d hate to lose the majority, but I’m telling you, if we don’t stand up to our responsibility, maybe that’s the lesson to be learned.”
Now aside from the refreshing principled stance that Woolsey takes here, it’s also a bold and probably quite pragmatic one. The Democrats who are collaborating with George Bush to prolong the war are also helping to cook up a noxious stew that could be, as Juan Cole points out, extremely toxic to Democrats following the next election:
[I]n all likelihood, when the Democratic president pulls US troops out in summer of 2009, all hell is going to break loose. The consequences may include even higher petroleum prices than we have seen recently, which at some point could bring back stagflation or very high rates of inflation.
In other words, the Democratic president risks being Fordized when s/he withdraws from Iraq, by the aftermath. A one-term president associated with humiliation abroad and high inflation at home? Maybe I should say, Carterized. The Republican Party could come back strong in 2012 and then dominate politics for decades, if that happened.
It is all so unfair, of course, since Bush started and prosecuted this disaster in Iraq, and Bush is refusing to accept responsibility for the failure, pushing it off onto his successor.
Cole also notes that banging the drums of war with Iran may be one of the stupider things that someone who has hopes of occupying the White House after 2008 could do at this point, but that doesn’t seem to have stopped anyone. Having a host of Bush Dogs willing to join with the Republicans is already creating terrible problems with regard to building any momentum in Congress that might bring an end to the war and make George Bush pay his own piper, but the situation will still be dire with Bush gone and the so-called “centrists” (who are more aptly described as the party’s radical extremists) still holding the reigns of power.
Lynn Woolsey is looking toward the future and being both smart and principled. Would that more were with her.
Related posts:
- Why Does Lynn Woolsey Want Congress to Go on Vacation?
- Jeb Bush: Stop Blaming My Brother for Driving the Country Off a Cliff
LeadershipWhite House Threatens Freshmen Who Won’t Vote For Supplemental- Kucinich, Woolsey Urge Colleagues to Vote “No” on Supplemental
- DPC to Continue Drive for Oversight, Accountability for Iraq and Afghanistan Contractors
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Zed!!
yo
not again
Jane!!!
I am party-blind.
well, almost.
reposting the link to Arthur Silber. I note that this is from last week, but I don’t remember seeing this specific information regarding Iran attack plans by the Pentagon. NO wonder they support cutting Iraq troops, they want them for after Bush bombs Iran.
http://powerofnarrative.blogsp…..do-it.html
Jane!
If I hadn’t stopped by TPM, I could have gotten a zed. I coulda been a contender!
JANE & LYNN!!
ok now thats what i’m talking about lol go after weak-willed dems…
i need to step off for a bit… bbl y’all i hope
zennurse @ 6
This take on the responsibility of congress is worth rereading.
Aloha Ya’ll, Anybody watch POV’s “Camden 28″, it was on after Wide Angle, last nite! It was absolutely inspirational!!! 8-)
Grand Moff Texan over at Daily Kos believes that the Dem candidates along with Harry Reid are getting all on the same page rejecting Little Boots and his “more of the same” routine.
Here’s the diary from the recommended list:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..151055/577
I hope and pray GMT’s perception is correct!
EPU’d…I’m going to change my name to ThreadKiller (sigh)
In addition, ALL the pols in DC should be on notice by NOW that their re-election chances are in jeopardy.
twȝk @ 11
This take on the responsibility of congress is worth rereading.
.
.
It starts out good:
Congress’ Liability in a
Nuclear Strike on Iran
No more European vacations for our legislators?
CTuttle @ 12
Oh, gosh, no we missed it as we had just stepped off a plane!!!
Do you know if it’s available to view on the net?
The Camden 28 were my heroes during those events, as I lived very close by and had very inspiring high school teachers who were also deeply involved in the movement.
This place is fun today ! (not that there’s anything wrong with that)
(Hi Jane!) Woolsey’s comments are a breath of fresh air from the ranks of the otherwise impotent, cowering, Shrub appeasing Dems. If only the Dems had the sense to listen to people like her instead of their “consultants” who are so adept at helping Dems lose perspective as well as elections.
Screw the party – vote for policy.
Sack the incumbent DINO’s.
The traitor Dems have cast their lot with their role model – Gen. Betrayus.
Time to vote the traitor Dems out of office and time for Congress to pull a few stars off the traitors like Betrayus who kill US troops for their own careers.
The military is subservient to civilians – our servants, not our masters.
Time to start destroying careers of the General Staff officers – and colonels – who have sold out their Oath to uphold and protect the Constitution.
Strike their names from the promotion list requiring Congressional approval. Until their careers destruct, no one advances.
Hey – civilian control of the coddled corrupt crybabies who comprise our senior military.
What a concept – serving the people, not General Dynamics.
If anyone deserves to hang for treason, it is Betryus and all the bestarred bemedalled Pentagon cowards who show up and lie to COngress so the can sell another weapons system or keep the Iraq Occupation going.
Traitors, every one.
They defile their oath and the uniform – as do the DINO’s who keep the war going.
I hope every single closet in the DINO’s lives is opened and spilled out where it will most damage their lives and destroy their careers.
Before their treachery destroys our Republic and what remains of our enlisted troops.
I’m only about halfway through that transcript, and I kept thinking “Blue America . . . Blue America . . . Blue America . . .“
Jane, what would be the possibility of getting Lynn Woolsey in for a Blue America chat?
kirk, you really have to quit holding back.
Good for Woolsey. And not to steal her thunder, but Schakowsky has been vocal about the Bush failed war for awhile and has the courage to make the msm sunday talk rounds against this war. U.S. Representative Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), a Chief Deputy Whip and member of the House Intelligence Committee
“…After listening to General David Petraeus’ testimony, Rep. Jan Schakowsky described the General’s vision for the future as “back to square one.
General Petraeus said that because of the military ‘progress’ in Iraq, troop size can be reduced to pre-surge levels — by next summer. Is he kidding? Four and a half years into the war, it couldn’t be clearer that the Commander in Iraq and the Commander in Chief have absolutely no plan for getting the U.S. out of the Iraqi quagmire.
http://www.house.gov/apps/list…..1107.shtml
I would like to see a more progressive congress critter in my district. We have Eliot Engel. Does anyone know if he will be opposed in a primary?
I’d work for them.
Engel so A*P*C.
Edited and released by MOD
I think the American people will be led to the slaughter until and unless they grasp that their interests are opposed by a true cabal consisting of corporations, congress, the WH, the MSM.
Bush Dogs are who they are because they’ve joined the cabal.
Once you’re a member of the cabal, your party affiliation no longer matters.
There’s not a hair breadth’s difference, for example, between Rahm (or Harold Ford) and shrub. Smarts are different, of course, but not objectives. All of ‘em could care less about the American People.
I think W is going to try to make the case for Iran…part of Cheney’s roll-out. Waaaay, too much publicity about these remarks…Let’s hope he doesn’t tell us it already started…
Here is, I think, Rove’s final gambit; a 100 years of Republican/Conservative “Economic Royalist” rule!! Push the next great depression, which will occur after the 2008 election with a Dem at the helm, onto the Democratic party. Even though all the factors that have been set up have been mostly because of conservative Republicans, and Bush. this depression should have happened already, but the war, and the pumping of the markets to stop the collapse… they are holding back the dam from bursting with every tool they can until after the elections.
The hapless Dems will be left holding the bag, and we all know how good they are at explaining things…. faugh!
Maybe it will be good for Dems to loose this time around and let the Repugs take it all. Of course, they will do just that–TAKE IT ALL!!!
Are there enough/any elections before the Nov ‘08 ones to force this change, though? I’m all for targetting ALL non progressives, Dem or Repub, but it seems to me the next opportunities to do so are next Nov, which means, even if we are successful, the withdrawl will still happen in the next presidency.
Maybe the tactic then should be, elect a Republican president and *everyone* else progressive…
What am I missing here?
And I’d love to see Woolsey come here for a chat if that’s possible, as well.
Jane
I’m so very glad “Pragmatism” is not about what, in the past, it has too often been.
After my rant on the last thread I feared that ‘moderation’ or ‘comity’ or ‘no-where- else-to-go’ might be hoving into view. I should have known better! Thank you! Thank you!
I’m really dejected that Bush is still getting his way all the time. I don’t get it.
What Kirk Murphy said!!!
If anyone should be apologizing for anything this week or forever, it’s Bush in Chief for going into Iraq in the first place.
I think this nation needs:
Term limits
Public financing
Fairness Doctrine
Break up media conglomerates
End to corporate lobbying PERIOD.. meaning that only non profits and citizens can lobby.
Elliott @ 28
I don’t either. Shoulda been sent back to his room without dinner LONG ago.
Mrs. K8 @ 16
I’m not sure if it’s available, it was well produced and utilized excellent first hand accounts from all the parties involved, even the FBI Agent! It was a masterful job of recapturing the historical perspective of the event and the larger picture of the national mood!!!
peanutbutter @ 31
and no TV!
twȝk @ 11
Wondering how your friend is doing, TW, re: her cervical cancer. Have you heard anything?
SanderO @ 30
Agreed, though not term limits. That’s what voting is for!
I’d add in tamper proof voting, as well.
from the conference call transcript, an exchange between Rabbi Michael Lerner of Tikkun and Rep Jim Moran:
Moran doesn’t want to name names, but I can hear the voice of Rahm Emanuel loud and clear.
Oh, for a Blue America challenger in the Fifth Congressional district in Illinois . . .
About friggin’ time.
The problem hasn’t been Republicans acting like Republicans, it’s been the utter lack of an opposition party.
On framing, I think it is going to be crucial that the Dems say it loud, and say it as many times a day as they can:
The football team and the chearleading squad have run this country into the ground. Now it’s going to take the freaks ‘n geeks some time to clean up the mess.
Information age to the rescue!
I think people like Juan Cole are a bit too pessimistic about the post-Bush America, because the stink of Iraq will be tied forever to Bush. We live in a time where there is so much documentation of resistance and such easy access to what really happened. It was relatively easy to frame the problems in America as Carter’s fault even though it wasn’t true, because there were only three TV stations. Talk radio and cable news made sure Clinton got impeached even though the majority of Americans were against it.
The days of a few corporations deciding what message the American public hears are over. No longer is it just the handful of David Brooks and Cokie Roberts spinning the message for the GOP elite, blogs and online groups are pushing back with the truth and making it harder and harder for the truth to be obscured. This is why, as the previous post pointed out, CBS is freaking out over letters of criticism. There is also extensive access to international media, so one can get less propaganda infusion about events.
Dude on Tweety said if he were a wingnut operative he would have planted the Betray Us ad.
LS @ 24
I think that the nukes that sat on the runway were part of the strategy for Iran.
Whooo-hoooo! Cafferty calling Pelosi’s bluff.
ooh-oooh the Repervlicans are pickin’ on us and filibuster threatening….
Cafferty calls bullshit…oh, well, okay, he said baloney….but it’s a moment of beauty.
Good on ya, Jack.
Jane,
Thanks for this. It is also worth pointing out that Woolsey is the co-chair of the Progressive Caucus, the largest caucus in the Democratic Party, so she is not “just another representative”.
I wish that the Caucus would have regular meetings, and plan joint actions. What do they do? Their website does not seem to suggest that they are very active.
Bob in HI
kirk murphy @ 19
You have an unusually aggressive and morbid edge today. Not used to it, although I understand it and can certainly sit with it. Just noting it, that’s all.
zennurse @ 34
I’m not sure, haven’t spoken to her or my brother since labor day. Thanks for asking.
Peterr @ 37
but wasn’t emanuel appointed to dccc by pelosi when she was minority leader?
or do i have that wrong?
Damn Straight!
I say the party has been screwing me for thirty years and I am fighting back every day! Enough!
CTuttle @ 32
Oh, now break my heart, will ya? I just know I’d be slapping Mr. K8’s leg throughout the whole documentary, going “Hey, I knew him! Hey, she taught at my high school! Hey, that priest came and spoke to our school assembly!”
I really hope there’s some way of getting hold of a copy of that. Those were some tumultuous times — and what happened then has everything to do with what I believe and hold true now.
Tony in the Bubble on Cspan:
Why isn’t everyone saying Job Well Done?
Yeah, Tony, never mind who’s killing who. This is supposed to be a happy occasion.
wow.
A 50 State primary challenge. I love it!!
That’s exactly what needs to happen.
Yes to term limits.. there is plenty of talent around. We don’t need people becoming a fixture in government.
If they love it so much they can become staffers or something else.
Can we see a list of who needs to be bumped, please?
I need some help deciphering this response by my Blue Dog/Bush Dog Congressman, Leonard Boswell:
Dear Mr. IrishJim:
I appreciate you taking the time to share with me your views regarding my voting record. The views of my fellow Iowans are an essential component of my decision making process as a Member of Congress
I understand your concerns for the Iraq War. On March 23rd I voted for H.R. 1591, the U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans’ Health, and Iraq Accountability Act of 2007. H.R. 1591 would have funded our troops fighting in the field, increased funding to care for wounded soldiers and our veterans, provided increased funding for homeland security initiatives, and increased funding to continue to fight the global war on terror. Also, this legislation, for the first time, provided for a plan to begin a phased and orderly withdrawal from Iraq by calling for benchmarks that the President referred to in his State of the Union Address that the Iraqi government must meet. As you know, the President vetoed this bill.
Because of the immediate need to ensure the safety of our troops, Congressman David Obey introduced the new U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans’ Health, and Iraq Accountability Act of 2007, H.R. 2206, on May 8th. This legislation passed the full House and Senate, and on May 25th was signed into law by the President. I understand your concerns with this legislation. When Americans voted in November, they voted for change – they voted for the redeployment of American troops out of Iraq. However, with a phased withdrawal vetoed by the President and threats to veto any bill including such initiatives, it was important Congress pass legislation that funded our troops, regardless of redeployment. As a twenty-year veteran of the U.S. Army, having served two tours in Vietnam, I am well aware of what it is to be a soldier overseas. I understand what our troops are going through while fighting a war that is not popular at home. I cannot in good conscience vote against a bill that will fund our troops, so long as they are fighting in the field. That is why I voted for H.R. 2206.
As a cosponsor of H.Res. 417, I understand and share your concerns for former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. This legislation, introduced by Congressman Adam Schiff on May 21st, would have expressed Congress’s dissatisfaction with the Attorney General. Congressman Jay Inslee introduced H.Res. 584 on May 21st, which would have impeached Attorney General Gonzales. While neither of these bills were considered on the House floor, Attorney General Gonzales delivered his formal resignation on August 27th, which is effective September 17th.
Lastly, I would like to address your concerns regarding H.R. 3356, the Improving Foreign Intelligence Surveillance to Defend the Nation and the Constitution Act of 2007.
In May, Director of National Intelligence Michael McConnell called on Congress to update the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to reflect the increased use of computers and other electronic devices. The House responded with H.R. 3356, which was introduced by Congressman Silvestre Reyes on August 3rd. Members of House leadership, the Select Committee on Intelligence, and the Committee on the Judiciary worked with Vice Admiral McConnell to draft a bill meeting the needs of the intelligence community while protecting the rights of American citizens. Although negotiations made substantial progress, a final agreement was not met. Unfortunately, H.R. 3356 passed the House with less than the two thirds majority required for final passage and on August 4th, the House passed the Senate bill, S. 1927. This bill passed the Senate on August 3rd by a vote of 60 – 28. While it is not a bill that I would have written, it serves as a temporary fix to FISA and provides our government with the tools to protect the nation.
As you know, S. 1927 permits the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence to authorize, without a court order, the acquisition of foreign intelligence regarding individuals outside of the U.S. This bill does not require approval of such intelligence gathering by the foreign intelligence court established under FISA. As a Member of the House Select Committee on Intelligence, I understand your concerns with this legislation and agree that it is not perfect. However, it is important that we afford our government the ability to protect our nation against potential threats. Also, this bill is temporary and will ’sunset’ 180 days from enactment. Before the August District Work Period, Speaker Pelosi called on both the House Committee on the Judiciary and the Select Committee on Intelligence to send to the House in September, legislation that will respond comprehensively to the Administration’s proposal while addressing the many deficiencies in S. 1927. Please be assured I am committed to passing legislation that will modify FISA while maintaining respect for our constitutional rights.
Please be assured that I will keep your views in mind as the House considers various issues in the upcoming weeks and months of the 110th Congress. If you are interested in receiving updates on my work in Congress, please sign up for my e-newsletter at http://boswell.house.gov. As always, my staff and I are here to serve you. Please feel free to contact us if we can ever be of assistance to you or to share your concerns.
Sincerely,
Leonard L. Boswell
Member of Congress
LLB:ks
Sorry for the long post. Any suggestions on how I should respond? Other than why don’t you change your party affiliation?
cahuega @ 37
Oh, we’ve had an opposition party.
A very, very LOYAL opposition party.
But, you see, they are so very
AFRAID. (For themselves, not
the country, not the people,
not the rule of law and most
especially, not the CONSTITUTION!)
raven @ 41
Dude = Jerry Della Femina (advertising exec) who did *not* like the ad.
Raven……….don’t take this for a fact but I could swear I heard tweety mutter under his breath, “Yeah, well, the ad didn’t kill anybody.” Did you happen to catch that?
Mrs. K8 @ 49
Here’s the PBS link to it…
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2007…..2007-09-12
Did all three priests talk to ya’ll? ;-)
Lynn Woolsey – You have my deep gratitude for your courage in putting country before party and humanity before politics. Accumulating power for the sake of power (and its personal privileges) alone, is absolute corruption. Something certain leaders of a certain political party were trying to pretend they wanted no more of in our House of Representatives.
If Nancy Pelosi agrees with Lynn Woolsey (despite all recent evidence to the contrary), she too must take a stand, and start naming names of those of bad faith within the House Democratic caucus and leadership. [Just a threat to do so might change some minds in a hurry, and I know one DNC Chair, and a country full of we, the people, who would back her to the hilt.] Pelosi was selected to lead, not to follow the lowest common denominator. Pelosi – if she truly cares (behind the scenes as well as in front of the caucus) as defenders like Jim Moran want us to believe she does – must stop papering over unbridgeable caucus divides, before it’s too late. Otherwise, she’s as complicit as the most unprincipled, racist and corrupt “Bush Dog” in her caucus to whose fear and hate she caters and submits, for the true horrors we will face at the end of the depraved and uncivilized course upon which this nation has been launched.
Remember The Constitution.
selise @ 47
Head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) is an elected position in the Democratic caucus, not appointed by the party leader — though endorsements and support from powerful folks often sway the elections. He’s no longer the head of the DCCC, but holds a different leadership post.
I don’t recall whether Nancy supported Rahm in the various leadership elections, but if so I’d guess that it was a hardball political deal where Nancy said “I support you for the #3 post, if you support me for speaker.”
SanderO @ 51
California was one of the first states to put in term limits. The results have not been pretty. Most anythign meaningful now gets pushed out into public initiatives and politicians do little but bicker amongst themselves and try to line their nests as fast as they can in the time they’ve got. There’s no long term memory of the way to work things properly or the sorts of pitfalls and potholes to avoid, so corruption and incompetence is absolutely rife.
If someone does well, elect them again if you like. If they do not, toss ‘em out. As long as there is transparency in government, the accountability is already there. “Term limits” is a crude and ineffective strategy that merely shuts people up about true reform for a while.
Really good stuff would have to be in: voting reform, campaign finance reform, lobbying reform, that kind of thing.
puppethead @ 39
You know, it’s very good of you to point this out. It is too easy to get totally disheartened, but whoever the wise person was who said something to the effect that “history doesn’t repeat itself — but it rhymes” was spot on.
I try always to remember, when I get extremely down-hearted, all the historical movements of peoples who were suffering way worse indignities than I’ve personally been subjected to. Folks like Nelson Mandela and Gandhi and blacks subjected to lynchings not very long ago and Native American tribes and, of course, the Holocaust.
It’s not right for me to get disgusted enough to give up if my very life and limb has not yet been on the line.
peanutbutter at 59 — so true.
Drive by
Another member of the Progressive Caucus in the House, Dennis Kucinch, is on the Ed Schultz radio show for another 40 min. pacific time.
peanutbutter @ 59
Makes sense to me –
Institutional/organizational memory is more important than many people realize, and once it’s gone it’s gone forever. This is happening here already with the retirement of many baby boomers etc. from the senior ranks of education, public service, health etc.
I think campaign spending limits would also go a long way to help this situation – even without public financing of campaigns.
CTuttle @ 33
POV replays for awhile, and on this site you can look at some extras. Check the site for local listings; it also appears you can purchase, if you’re so inclined.
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2007/camden28/
Off topic but germane to the Katy Couric thread earlier. I sent a letter this week to the News Hour complaining about David Brooks’ comparison of Osama’s rantings as having been similar to those found on lefty blogs. Here is what I wrote:
The commentary last week by Brooks comparing the ramblings of OBL to “lefty bloggers” was repulsive in the extreme and deserving of Mr. Brooks firing and a PBS apology. As a thinking citizen who actively reads and comments on progressive blogs I am infuriated at the marginalization of the progressive movement by corporatist shills like Brooks. To further insinuate that my views and ideals are somehow comparable to a mass murderer is repugnant.
I will not contribute to PBS nor my local NPR station (WUNC) unless and until Brooks is terminated from the News Hour. And while you’re at it, why don’t you get an actual liberal to balance the arch conservative on the show?
Today I received the following reply:
Dear NewsHour Viewer,
We have received many complaints, much of it organized by The Daily Kos and other blogs, about David Brooks’ comments on the NewsHour last Friday, Sept.7. Many people seem to think David Brooks brought up linguist Noam Chomsky of his own volition, and maligned him and everyone who identifies with “lefty bloggers” by comparing them to Osama Bin Laden. (my bold)
For the record, here is some of what OBL said on his recently released video tape:
“This war was entirely unnecessary, as testified to by your own reports. And among the most capable of those from your own side who speak to you on this topic and on the manufacturing of public opinion is Noam Chomsky, who spoke sober words of advice prior to the war, but the leader of Texas doesn’t like those who give advice.”
The full transcript can be found here:
http://counterterrorismblog.or…..script.pdf
Prior to the Shields and Brooks segment on the 9/7 NewsHour broadcast, Judy Woodruff moderated a discussion of the OBL tape with Mid-east and security experts Bruce Hoffman and Mohammed Hafez. During that conversation, Mr. Hafez made reference to Noam Chomsky as well. (see complete transcript at http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb…..09-07.html ).
David Brook’s comment on Chomsky was in response to Osama bin Laden’s statement and followed the comment of Mr. Hafez. For the record, here is a complete transcript of the Brooks and Shields comments regarding the OBL tape:
JIM LEHRER: Mark, first, have a thought about the new bin Laden tape?
MARK SHIELDS: I guess only after listening to Judy’s discussion, two things hit me. One, there were no overt threats in it to the United States. And two, it was quite self-indulgent, I thought, on his part, I mean, in that sense. It obviously was made rather recently, too.
JIM LEHRER: Scary in any way?
DAVID BROOKS: No, ludicrous. I mean, on one hand, he’s a malevolent guy who killed 3,000 Americans. But you read this thing, and it’s like he’s been sitting around reading lefty blogs, and he’s one of these childish people posting rants at the bottom of the page, you know, Noam Chomsky and all this stuff.
You can’t help read it and not laugh at it, occasionally, because it is just absurd. It’s flying this way, and that way, weird conspiracy theories, and mortgages, global warming. He throws it all in there.
The one thing that leapt out – and Bruce Hoffman and the others mentioned this – was how Western it is. And a friend of mine, Reuel Gerecht, points out that there’s this argument that Western ideas never permeated into the Arab world, but in fact it’s all – I mean, a lot of the worst ideas from the West have permeated in, and he’s picked up Noam Chomsky, and he’s picked up some of the anti-globalization stuff. And that’s what infuses this.
JIM LEHRER: Do you expect it to have any impact at all on the American public or the American debate on Iraq coming with the Petraeus report, et cetera?
MARK SHIELDS: No, I really don’t.
JIM LEHRER: OK. (discussion moves to the next topic)
If anyone owes you an apology, it’s The NewsHour, for failing to make it clear that Bin Laden’s comments included references to Chomsky, high taxes, a recent book about President Bush, the Democratic and Republican positions on the Iraq War, and other names and issues that indicated his familiarity with current events in the West. Given how many people misread David’s comments, we should have re-emphasized that point.
Thanks for your comments regarding The NewsHour.
Robert E. Flynn
Vice President, Communications and Marketing
The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer and MacNeil Lehrer Productions
2700 South Quincy Street, Suite 250
Arlington, Virginia 22206
p. 703.998.2174
f. 703.998.5707
m. 703.283.6361
Oh, there was absolutely nothing inappropriate about Brooks’ comment. Oh, News Hour, you’re the bad one here.
The tone is clearly defensive and a bit snippy, not actually accusing me of being unintelligent, but inferring that ignorance about everything OBL said and everything News Hour showed is the reason I took offense..
The “lefty blogger” jab-no problem there! Everyone knows they are marginal loudmouths. Nothin’ to see here, move along.
The DC KoolAid is pretty damn strong dontcha think? But it’s also clear from the tone that PBS took a beating on this which is good.
The Camden 28 would not be brought to trial today unfortunately but that’s the way Bush operates.
Oh my. Matthews calls the Betrayus hearing a dog & pony show & airs the Jon Stewart clip from last night. I like it.
1,596 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Patriots:
Than you SOOOOO much sister Hamsher, for this post and the remarks of Rep Woolsey. I have been beatin’ the drums for progressive grassroots to do jest what Woolsey suggested….indeed, more generally, the progressive anti-fascist opposition must create a situation that duplicates that in 1968. History has given us one last chance to get it right…we ken not only stop the war but we ken destroy the encrusted corporate war machine that has controlled the Democratic Party since the mid-1940’s.
Clearly, the only way we restore the IDEA of democracy in America (ah Tocqueville, turn back over in yer grave, brother) is to create an intervention within the Democratic Party around the war and make the nomination of the Democratic candidate turn on this issue. We should begin to organize and practice for the Democratic convention in Denver and send the Democratic Party power brokers the clear message that we will blow the god-damned party up if changes aren’t made.
I hope that Rep Woolsey’s remarks reflect a movement within the elected Democratic membership to challenge the corporatists and Rahm Emmanuel fascists within the elected leadership. I have said this before and I’ll say it here again, we are better off losin’ the White House and even some of the margin of majority in the House than to elect the current corporatist Democratic Party. And for those of you who are still tryin’ ta find the pony under Mrs. Clinton’s mountain of horse shit, remember that Rahm Emmanuel was the linchpin in Bill Clinton’s political money machine, the bagman for A*PAC and Rahm and Chuck Schumer are the comptrollers for Mrs. Clinton’s political money machine.
KEEP THE FAITH AND REMEMBER ALL THE FASCISTS DON’T CALL THEMSELVES REPUBLICANS!!
IrishJim @ 53
I’m impressed at the specificity of the response. His staff has responded with facts and his votes, including why the efforts failed, if they did. I would follow the legislation he promises to continue to address, reminding him before a vote that he promised to deal as described.
A few voices like Woolsey are trying to tell America and the Democratic Party how serious the situation is and what we need to do to change it. But their voices are lost in all the noise. Listeners to her statement are already off and running to another loud noise or as some express, shinny object.
But, those loud shiny general uniforms still stand out. They are great costumes and props for a speech. It’s like eating popcorn in a movie – our most base needs are gratified.
And, I still like and support MoveOn. If someone I care about gets fed up and strikes back inappropriately, I’ll be damned if I punish or reprimand them publicly. I’ll speak to them privately and directly on the matter. Enough already. MoveOn is getting more hate speech than Klaus Barbie. Let’s keep things in perspective. Petraes in his uniform is not God. He is Betray-US. And I don’t give him permission to kill in my name and claim it is to give me my freedom of speech. I owe that to the Constitution, not the military.
zennurse @ 45
zennurse, you are quite correct. My dad served in the USAF in WWII – his pilot training class was cancelled when the Pacific theatre ended. My uncle rose to be a Marine Lt. Col who flew Marine One for two tours and (in between) had two combat tours in Viet Nam.
I was raised to honor the uniform because those who wore it behaved honorably.
And – through happy accident – I was raised with and still enjoy considerable privilege. All my life, I’ve been taught that the measure of a person is how they treat the least prominent and advantaged person, not how they suck up to power and cronies.
Generals and Congresscritters lead lives of great ease and comfort. Betrayus’ deliberate deception of and false testimony to the US Congress, together with the acquiescence of the fearful servile Dems and the criminal assault of the people’s servant – a minister – at the door of Congress have removed my remaining inhibitions about describing the root cause of rivers of blood and pools of misery here at home.
Until the Iraq Occupation is ended and the Corporate/Money Party coup here is undone, I will be vocally advocating for the politics of (non-violent) personal destruction of those in power who oppose Progressive policies.
I believe the result is not attractive, but I hope it will be tolerable to read. My rage is with those who sacrifice others for their own advancement: I hope to see their careers destroyed and their assets lost – but I hope I’m not so strident as to be offensive here at the Lake.
And outing the Obstuctionist Dems should be quite entertaining.
My letter to Kerry on the Betray Us ad
===================
Dear Senator Kerry,
I donated to your Presidential campaign personally, and organized a fundraiser that netted you over $5000.
Today I saw you attack MoveOn and their “Petraeus or Betray Us” ad for being over the top.
-You don’t recall Petraeus’ OpEd 6 weeks before an election lauding his own mirage of success in Mosul?
-You don’t see that Petraeus is cherry-picking numbers on dead American troops in his charts to tell the story the President wants us to hear?
-You don’t see that he is hiding and otherwise cooking the numbers on dead Iraqis by changing and/or classifying tracking methods?
-You didn’t see his request for another six months coming from a mile away?
-You don’t see Petraeus’ message coordination with Ed Gillespie as politicization of the military?
-You don’t see Petraeus’ *exclusive* appearance with Brit Hume on Fox News as a political act?
-You don’t agree that he has spent more time this summer playing host to visiting dignitaries than running a military campaign (what military function is served by squiring Katie Couric around Baghdad?)
Don’t you think each and every one of these items is a betrayal?
This administration has raised incompetence to an art form and yet runs political circles around you and the rest of the Democratic “Leadership” …adding round after round of lies to prolong a war lost before it was begun. And you go out of your way to help? Good job.
Could I have my money back? My Party back? My Country back?
The Repugs are screaming about the Betrayus Ad because it HURT
peanutbutter @ 59
PB- I agree with this- and not with term limits- said so in a comment the other eve (TRex late nite) where he seemed to be suggesting term limits. But, w/o the back up info you give. Toss the bad ones, keep the good ones. I’d rather see the law changed (alas don’t know details) so that Reps and Sens are subject to recall by state voters.
A while back, I was so ashamed of Dick Durbin when he cried and apologized for saying something bad, but true about the Guatanamo prison. The right wing pushes the buttons and the good guys cave in. It’s disgusting.
Kathy/Fozzetti @ 72
Republics always scream when anyone fights back. They can’t take it and only want to dish it out. Sadly, Democratic leadership doesn’t understand that and only wants to make nice.
Sparkatus says @71
Love the letter. Well stated. And, well deserved.
That conference call is quite interesting. The progressives are pretty direct with Lynn Woolsey and Jim Moran, both of whom are at least as frustrated as we are with where things are at in the Democratic caucus.
One item that stands out to me is what Lynn has to say about communications with members of congress:
Later on, Jim Moran picks up the same theme:
This is why Christy, Jane, & Co. put those phone numbers up on their posts: contact with members of Congress matters, whether you are in a safe district, a disputed district, or a “solid” district. Members notice these things, and discuss them with each other.
Peterr @ 58
are you sure about that (that the caucus votes for dccc head)? do you have any evidence to back it up?
here’s some counter evidence (’course it could be completely wrong, that’s why i’m asking):
Jonathan @ 24
Absolutely correct in every detail. It’s time to call the dogcatcher and put these ‘Bush Dog’s in the pound!
Obama says today in a ‘major speech’:
“We hear eerie echoes of the run-up to the war in Iraq in the way that the President and Vice President talk about Iran. They conflate Iran and al Qaeda.”
We need better civics courses in school, apparently. We have term limits in this country—they’re called elections. Sure, we should fix the incumbency money advantage issue, but voters have an opportunity to throw the bums out on a regular basis.
Fern @ 62
Yes. And restore a truely public arm of the media that is nonpartisan and reports on everything. A broadcast version of Media Matters…it is to swoon.
Lynn Woolsey reminds me there is SOUL in my party.
I don’t get it. Republicans screech cut & runner, unpatriotic, traitor, defeatocrat & deliberately throw out the word treason while MoveOn accurately described the gerneral’s report as a betrayal. Smear fiction vs fact.
Valley Girl @ 72
Well…perhaps once campaign finance reforms and lobby reform have been put in place and established. The Davis/Schwarzennegger fiasco is still fresh in my mind, and it happened, because a sick rich fuck got conned into bankrolling the recall effort on the thought that *he’d* be the challenger. *That* kind of recall is fundamentally undemocratic…
“I believe the result is not attractive, but I hope it will be tolerable to read. My rage is with those who sacrifice others for their own advancement: I hope to see their careers destroyed and their assets lost – but I hope I’m not so strident as to be offensive here at the Lake.”
When I discovered how to access interactive stuff on the web, I began at the NYT forums, in a bioethics panel, where I was one of about 10 regular posters. I knew nothing of blogs at the time, and it was an interesting introduction to this type of discussion, but moderation was nonexistent and a Xtian troll continually hijacked our ongoing talk. There was a chemist, a former reporter and, yes, a psychiatrist. He was a Vietnamese man who emigrated during the war, was warm and intelligent and exceedingly patient with folks who could benefit from education. We had some great talks about the Schiavo issue which was how I got involved.
This is the place for whatever you have to say; we all benefit. I wasn’t complaining. As I said, I can sit with it. I was hoping you would tell what it was about, that’s all.
z
NorskeFlamethrower @ 68
Right on Norske.
Coincidentally, just a day or two before Rep. Woolsey’s call-out, I had written her on this very topic.
Now, I’m not naive or foolish enough to think that I helped inspire her courageous stand. Then again, it probably didn’t hurt. Hey, maybe this writing-to-one’s-Representative thing works.
Will Congresswoman Woolsey commit to campaign alongside progressive challengers to Bush Dogs, I wonder? That’s real pragmatism. Will she campaign for and raise money for Mark Pera, Donna Edwards, and John Laesch?
Surely the Congresswoman knows talk is cheap. Let’s see her put her time, energy, fundraising, and travel where her mouth is: challenging obstructionist incumbent Democrats in their home districts by campaigning for progressive people-powered candidates.
puppethead @81:
Anyone who knows their history knows that the Presidential term limits were put in place by the Republican Party not long after FDR died. In doing so, they shot themselves in the foot, because 30 years later, they got a winner in Ronald Reagan.
I truly think that if any Republican had a chance of being re-elected for 4 terms, it would have been him.
Waccamaw @ 54
Just a Republican repeating Republican talking points. From Jerry’s column today:
Now, I may be the last person standing who believes in George W. Bush, and I believe he will be treated a lot better by history than he is being treated now.
It’s different for Democrats. Take that Israel-hating prig, Jimmy Carter. He was the worst president in history, but Democrats still speak of Carter’s intelligence in hushed, respectful tones.
Brisingamen @ 90
Yep, exactly. And look at how many of the “Class of 1994″ term-limit happy GOP politicians are the ones who reneged on their pledges to abide by them. Far more than any Democrats.
selise @ 78
Congresspedia’s entry on the DCC says this: “Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) was unanimously elected to head the DCCC for the 2008 campaign cycle.”
Sometimes, these leadership elections are indeed races where two or more candidates twist arms, make promises, and otherwise encourage the members of the Caucus to vote their way. Pelosi’s race with Steny Hoyer for the Speaker’s post was exactly that — a contested race.
In other cases, it’s more “understood” that someone has the votes to win, and so no real race takes place. I believe, but can’t track it down, that this is how Rahm became head of the DCCC. Congresspedia says “Emanuel was named the Chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee in 2005 after Rep. Robert Matsui (D-CA) died.” It could be that this was either (a) an emergency kind of appointment, following the death, or (b) shorthand for saying “Pelosi threw her support behind Rahm for this post, and everyone else went along by acclamation.”
Media accounts are notorious for conflating appointments and elections for leadership posts. I’m almost certain that both the DCCC chair and the Chair of the democratic caucus are elected positions, but sometimes these elections are more pro-forma than others.
CTuttle –
Thanks for the link!
Phillip Berrigan, SJ, spoke to my entire high school in an outdoor assembly (because the auditorium was not large enough for all 2500 students). He engaged in a debate with a military recruiting officer on the morality of the war. (And mopped the floor with the recruiter, IMO. As far as I know, they never made the same mistake again, having a debate in a fair forum, as they would lose every time to a passionate, well-informed, and deeply moral opponent.) I had the great pleasure of meeting Fr. Berrigan after the event, something I’ll never forget.
Fr. Michael Doyle had been to our high school many times, before and after my years there. He may well have taught there as well (but I haven’t kept up with all the changes in faculty over the years), and I was to encounter him many, many times in other social justice work and numerous events, presentations, and religious retreats relating to poverty and homelessness. His organization, “Heart of Camden” run out of his parish (Sacred Heart) is a true thing of beauty, a small but patient and insistent force for kindness, mercy, justice, hope.
Ed McGowan I know not just from the religious world, but also from the world of traditional Irish music.
I’m so happy for the link you provided, because there is an option to purchase the film. Thanks again!
p.s. — FDL has been flaky for me the last half-hour or so, and I’ve had trouble loading the page. If y’all don’t see me now, it’s because I’ve temporarily given up and gone off to do the necessary unpacking of our suitcases!
Love to all Pups! So good to be back and see you all again!
hi zennurse – I am so glad that seminar brought you to the Lake (ultimately).
I fear I didn’t choose my words well. I din’t pick up a hint of criticism in your post – just a question (implied in the most courteous way).
I’m the one critical of my more aggressive and strident stance – advocating for the personal (non-violent) destruction of elected officials is (to me) unattractive.
But also necessary – so I’ll keep doing it.
I appreciate your kind acceptance of this rather unappealing facet of my human rights advocacy.
Brisingamen @ 91
His Alzheimer condition was already very noticable in his second term. Nothing would have changed. Daddy Bush would have gone from VP to President.
TeddySanFran @ 90
Teddy, I love your skepticism, I really do. You are from California… do you have reason to believe she wont act accordingly with her statement?
Just got in, so I haven’t had a chance to read anything except last post itself (no more arrows in the back) and this post and comments.
I got to thinking about my formative days in the late 60s early 70s. And, what I always thought of a pragmatic view. It was a different time, but still applies in many ways.
There were radicals back then. I wasn’t the type of person to do the extreme things that they did, and I didn’t always agree. But, insofar as I could, I supported radical action. I thought it was admirable, nothing to be dissed in word or deed.
Because, apart from anything else, it served the important purpose of pushing the boundaries to the left- in the direction I wanted. And, thus helped push the “center” more in the direction I wanted. I thought it truly stupid to not recognize how important the radical voices were. I viewed that as “pragmatic”.
So, I support Lynn Woolsey for another view of pragmatism- because she’s really not saying anything all that radical- just true and important.
I haven’t seen the moveon ad, so I can’t comment specifically on that (yet). But, based on my “pragmatic” approach to things in an earlier generation, I doubt I’d find much to condemn.
Thanks QuakerGirl @ 76. Felt good writing, better sending and best reposting here at FDL
The behavior on this little tempest is a microcosm of the larger problem the solution to which Woolsey has identified.
These guys see rabid crowds with pitchforks and try to lead or get out of the way. It’s still the case that there are more rabid pitchfork wielders on the conservative side. We see the same thing with the media…Easy to slime Ds with little consequence but Rs respond with attacks to the jugular. Can’t seem to recall where I saw a great cmmentary to that effect just yesterday or today…
QuakerGirl @96: Agreed.
While I disagreed with Mr. Reagan on many things, I cannot dislike a man who brought acorns back from Camp David for the White House squirrels…
TeddySanFran @ 89
From the conference call transcript:
Sounds like she’s already on it, Teddy!
Peterr @ 94
absolutely. that’s why i have doubts. but still, i can’t ignore it when i see it repeated all over the place – including on emanual’s own official website.
The revolution will be televised by someone if not ABC, NBC, CBS,
CNN, FOX, and/or NPR.
Peterr @ 37
Just an observation
While I agree that Steny Hoyer is putrid, I wouldn’t let the speaker off the hook so easily. She has the same or even more powers than say … Don Perata (Ca. State Senate Leader) such as chairmanships, committee assignments, where your office is located, if your bills come up for vote, election support (whether big names help you with your campaign), fundraisers … etc.
She wields a lot of power.
And don’t even get me started on the CDP (California Democratic Party) and the Liebermans within, which I wouldn’t get into in public because of Reagans 11 Commandment about your own party
As a parenthetical remark (I’ve heard a few things, because I know a few people)
The speaker has a lot of power
TeddySanFran @ 90
Re:Talk is cheap, I kind of got EPU’d with this, a site I found about Brian Haw, a man who has been protesting at Parliament since June of 2001. Before 9/11, before Iraq, but because of Iraq. I am so humbled by this and trying to think about a way to support him. I’d like to send him info about FDL, a shirt, or something. Maybe a care package from the site for him to read. Anyway, please take a look. This is committment.
http://www.parliament-square.org.uk/
Brisingamen @ 101
That’s what I found so maddening about him. Still, overall, he was not good for this country.
If FDR had term limits and served only two term, that would have changed history. Who knows who would have been president. It is likely Poland would have got their independence and not placed under Stalin’s rule. There are some interesting unknown scenerios from that one. We know RR became incapacitated shortly after he left office so we can speculate on the players and probably outcome. Ahh, but FDR….
john in sacramento @ 105
Just following the ins and outs of the latest budget approval mechanisms this last month tells you quite a bit about CA liebermans…
Valley Girl @ 99 –
i like your idea of “pragmatism”!
the goal i strive for is to support all allies’ actions, unless i think they are unethical or immoral. mostly, ‘cuz i’m not sure what actions are going to be the most helpful… and also because it’s a position of solidarity.
john in sacramento @ 104
No disagreements for me on any of that.
But I still hear Rahm’s voice loudest in my head, when I read Moran’s remarks. That’s the voice that needs to be reined in.
john in sacramento @ 105
i’ve never read anything about pelosi supporting hoyer – just the opposite.
RIP Rep. Mike Davis
Wow. Nothing here about any of the current issues. Emmanuel’s website is kind of telling.
OK, who can we put up against him there? I hear lots of calls to challenge Pelosi, but overall I *like* what she does, and I am prepared (having been on a board of directors of a group, however humble and small) to believe she’s got her hands full herding cats. If Emmanuel is the worst of the lot then what have we got here and who can run against him? D-IL-5 …
selise @ 112
You’re right, in that Pelosi defeated Hoyer in a brutal race for Majority leader and thus speaker. I think John is saying “Just because Steny is bad, it doesn’t make Nancy good.”
I find it interesting that Kerry would join the chorus chastising Move-on, when he is out of the running for ‘08 largely because of flak ginned up by the right wing noise machine with the help of the Clinton machine over a “botched joke.”
selise @ 109
Thanks selise. I feared I might just be rambling, after a long day.
And, your point about not knowing in advance what actions will be most helpful is a great one.
I also was partly reacting to was that Kerry condemned moveon for the ad (did I read correctly?). Assuming I got that right… I was thinking- tactically, that was a stupid thing to do. If you don’t agree, then just shut up. Don’t you get it that the only way to move the center towards the “left” (as if we are anywhere near there), is to push the boundaries/ envelope in the leftward direction?
Kirk Murphy –
Like you, I did not in any way find zennurse’s remark about your mood to be critical. And I’m grateful for her insightful remark because it prompted your passionate, moving, inspiring statement in comment #71.
God bless you for the goodness in your heart, for the passion you feel, and for your unswerving commitment.
And while I understand your own discomfort with what you consider to be “unattractive” in your blunt-spokenness, I must disagree. I find it most attractive. And while I cannot begin to fathom the mind of God (and recognize and deeply honor the beliefs of those who do not believe there is a God), I cannot help but think that your profound sentiments would be highly attractive to someone such as Jesus was said to be.
Now I’ll leave behind all religious talk, and simply say thank you — for your full-throated expression of the most humane and just values we can embrace.
[The toobz on my end are still clogged. So I’ll be back later.]
TeddySanFran @ 90
Re:Talk is cheap, I kind of got EPU’d with this, a site I found about Brian Haw, a man who has been protesting at Parliament since June of 2001. Before 9/11, before Iraq, but because of Iraq. I am so humbled by this and trying to think about a way to support him. I’d like to send him info about FDL, a shirt, or something. Maybe a care package from the site for him to read. Anyway, please take a look. This is committment.
http://www.parliament-square.org.uk/Peterr @ 102
Could I have a link to that, Peterr, I’m hoping to get to NH and would love to intersect.
selise @ 112
I was commenting on Moran’s comment about her stance on the occupation and how she’s somehow being bullied by the Bushdogs.
Right now my opinion is like the Missouri State motto, “Show me” Nancy. Show me how you’re going to work against the occupation, and not only show me, but do it.
What Rep. Woolsey said has been shockingly obvious for 10-15 years, or more. Very happy she said it and that I haven’t noticed a comment yet bemoaning Ralph Nader’s 2000 campaign. Maybe people are finally getting it.
Woolsey’s characterization is basically the crux of Nader’s campaign in 2000, so hopefully people will stop blaming him and his voters for the Constitutional Crisis we are in.
zennurse @ 119
Sorry – here’s the link to the conference call transcript. At the top of the transcript, they’ve got links to the sites of all the participants, and you might see if PDA has more at their site (or contact Tim Carpenter through them and ask directly).
Kathy/Fozzetti @ 72
And, stupidly, they held it up in the General’s face all through the hearing.
Valley Girl @ 117
via jane, kerry said:
i don’t think triangulating is a good thing – practically or ethically.
thanks for the correction, john in sacramento and peterr.
new thread – David Neiwert on Ted Olson and the Pushovers
selise @ 125
;-)
Nuevo Threado
(just had lunch with jane & howie and come home to valley girl, mrs. k8 and zennurse together again in the same thread. an exceedingly cool day…)
selise @ 124
Selise- if you have the time, maybe you could spell it out a bit more for my long-day fried-brain.
And, btw, I hope that you (or anyone one else) took my comment “if you don’t agree, then keep your mouth shut” as any kind of general comment, just one very specific to the point I was trying to make.
If I read you correctly, you are defending Kerry’s statement as direct, and “non-triangulating”. If so, I think I understand.
On the other hand, “who I think under any circumstances serves with the best interests of our country” — nope, I am not willing to give the military a free pass, just bec. they are military.
But, probably better that I go back and read your link and the comments, before I say more. But, I will be a-ponderin’.
rosalind @ 128
Wow! Sounds like great fun. Rosalind- you were UCSC undergrad, right? (oh, memory do not fail me now).
Valley Girl @ 129
so sorry i wasn’t clear.
i don’t like kerry’s statement, because i think he was triangulating against moveon when i don’t think moveon did anything wrong.
of course, i will promise to reconsider if you think differently. *g*
selise @ 131
*g* thanks! No, no need to reconsider. ;)
I was fearing that my disdain for Kerry, which came about as I watched him roll-over on the Ohio vote in 2004 (very long saga), was clouding my view inappropriately. Yes, he does some good things. But…
Valley Girl @ 130
yup. community studies.
rosalind @ 133
Whew! Then my memory is correct. I remember that your comment on FDL was my first info about Denice Denton having died (committed suicide, as became clear later).
Are the people so silly that they’d completely forget who put us in the losing war in the first place?
At any rate, this presidencies contributions to global warming, our failing economy, and the inevitable wrong doings that will come to light after the new president is sworn in will probably be enough to punish the Republicans for quite some time to come (and the Dems, too, for sitting on their keesters for so long throughout all this).
I, for one, wish we could chuck both parties out.
TeddySanFran @ 123
tee-hee
What a gift!
For a bunch of crooks who rode Nixon’s ad men to power, the GOP leaders sure have forgotten messaging.
Lynn Woolsey is my representative, and I’ve supported her politics since she was on the Petaluma, CA city council. Where are the rest of our representatives, and why aren’t they REPRESENTING??????
SanderO @ 31
Only Kucinich would deliver that set of agenda’s. And he can’t win of YOU don’t vote for him!!!
I’m voting for him, in the spirit of Kirk Murphy.
KIRK MURPHY JOHNSON IS RIGHT!!!
Dems and Republican Reps were singing the “iran is a problem” song this morning on C-Spans Washington Journal. Rep Obey was saying the same thing on the Diane Rehm show.
Olbermann just called the plan for Iraq the “coalition,mission, transition”
Did you folks know that the Republicans gave Vitter a standing ovation the first time he appeared in front of them after the exposure of his trips to the prostitute. Must be the same guys who hung Clinton out to dry for lying under oath about his blow job. Such standards these folks live by. Matthews was harping on how Craig is being creamed for his activities yet Vitter gets high fived.
Good Point.
I am waiting for the day that Pelosi or Hillary take up with some young men half their age. Dodd, Kucinich, Thompson, Giulianni
kirk murphy @ 136
When the move on add came up on the Matthews show Matthews said ” the add did not kill anybody”
Prairie Sunshine @ 43
Got any linky to that? I’d LOVE to read it. Thanks.
Votus @ 62
Heard the original 3 hours this morning. The man’s inspirational . . . and has plans for every reform so he can WALK his talk . . . makes the rest of the so called progressives look positively facist . . . this country needs HUGE change, and only Kucinich is willng to start to bring it one lil progressive step at at time.
He’s electable if you vote for him. I will. Sure beats Shilary or Obama and the rest of the big biz warhorses of our so called people’s party.
Harumph.
Viz RPS’s comments at #22. I saw Shahowsky (spelling?) on the news hour, & she was great & fiery shooting down the lies of the ReThugs & traitors like turncoat Brian Baird (D-Bush’s Anus). The Demos need more like Woolsey, Shahowsky, Feingold, M. Waters, etc.
All the rest should be jettisoned– challenged from the actual left (if such a thing exists) w/in the Demos, or by outsiders.
On the other hand, I bet when Bushy bombs Iran in the next few mths. all the DC elite will rally ’round him. As that great “journalist” Bill O’Leilly said, in times of war you can’t question the Pretzeldent, you must support him unquestioningly.
Plenty of Brittany Spears footage on Olbermann. Still no mention of the two soldiers killed.. who were part of the Team of Seven who wrote the New York Times op-ed piece.
Olbermanns producers have their priorities.
anyone see any coverage of these two brave young mens deaths on T.V.?
NorskeFlamethrower @ 68
I LOVE the way you tawk Norske . . . down and dirty gets it done, anything less is certain suicide for us, and our republic. No more moderate nice guy crapola.
For all you Olbermann has so much integrity fans. !0 minutes on the Brittany Spears dance not a mention of the 2 soldiers who were part of the Gang of 7 who wrote NYT’s op-ed piece. Not even a mention.
They have their priorities!
kirk murphy @ 71
A True Progressive should NEVER, in these times, have to apologize for stridency. It’s the ONLY way to get er done . . . . moderation has proven to be an abject and total caved in failure of our faith in voting the ‘06.
Never again!
Kathy/Fozzetti @ 73
And those are very PRIMAL screams, and music to my ears . . . let them bleed their evil till purified.
jane thanks for the HIll link. Rep Moran is willing to stick is neck more than most.
He has definitely stuck out his neck on the I/P conflict. Few Reps are brave enough to do that.
Wonder if Norman Finklestein would ever be willing to be a quest here at FDL? Would be great to talk with him about his fair and balanced stance on the I/P issue and talk with him about his struggle at DePaul. He resigned a while back.
What about Gore/Feingold
Clinton/Feingold
Gore/Wesley Clark
Where is Richardson?
peanutbutter @ 107
He was not good for CA either . . . single handedly destroyed the Gold of our Golden State . . .
Tell your reps that they get us out of Iraq by forcing a REAL withdrawal as opposed to the bogus “withdrawal” down to pre-surge levels (that was planned all along due to operational limitations) or they will get a repeat of the 1968 Democratic Convention.
A lot of other countries are far ahead of us in terms of developing alternative energy and research work. The fact that we are spending billions per week chasing down a few militas in Iraq for a can of oil that we may not eventually get is ridiculous.
If oil prices goes higher, it may not be attributed to the fact we pulled out of Iraq prematurely, but that as to how oil prices is being set in the future, eg. say in Euros and not in dollars as currently. In that case then it would become much more costly to operate our economy. That’s my understanding of the whole cat and mouse oil game.
Toxic to Democrats, indeed. I agree. 2008 is not a done deal.
I say Democratic leaders own the war because they have not stopped it by cutting off funding. Tipping point for me is the death of two messengers in the New York Times. Yance T. Gray and Omar Mora, thank you for telling us the truth.
Others say I am too harsh, that Pelosi and Reid only ‘own stock’ in Iraq, that they can still cash out of a bad position and avoid future loss. I hope that is true. But it won’t be true until Democrats, with or without Republicans, start stopping the war.
For once and for all time: John Kerry, go fuck yourself.
Peterr @ 58
It appears he’s using that vantage point (behind her) to aim his dagger well.
If the Progressive caucus is the largest in the House then they need to get together to support her and fend off the Blue Dogs.
Then they need to find a good compromise position on the war. Internecine fighting isn’t constructive during stressful times such as this.
But, clearly, one way or another, the majority rule must hold or we don’t stand up to the “Democratic” label.
Kathy/Fozzetti @ 73
I agree, but there’s a bit more to the story.
The Blue Dog Dems, led by Steny Hoyer and Rahm Emanuel, have been staging an offensive within the Democratic party in the last couple of weeks. I think it might be related to the presidential candidate’s fight and the difficulty Hillary Clinton has when the House leader pursues policies Hillary doesn’t support.
Progressive Dems have to stand together and win the argument that our continued presence in Iraq is immoral, unsuccessful, wasteful of money and lives and political suicide. If we let the Blue Dog Dems run over us despite our majority, then how can we be ready to govern the whole country?
Stand and fight for the Right!
peanutbutter @ 107
Reagan was NOT a bad man. He might have been a bit naive and in that crowd of wolves anyone would have been seen that way.
He was apparently a kind generous man who truly was affable and had a strong moral sense (the indignation).
Where he was weak was in having a more complete and modern vision of what was needed for those days.
He grew up before the Great depression and loved the Roaring 20s with all the freedom, excitement, opportunity and national pride. And, like so many of his generation, he was swept up in the charisma and compassion of FDR when the Great Depression took hold. Where he parted company was when Soc*alists began to have more say than Reagan approved. That’s not an unreasonable position. It would’ve put Reagan in the Progressive to Liberal range of thought.
But, Reagan did something typical of his social set and the culture of those days. He went hard Right and opposed the Left of any variety. He didn’t forget the rhetoric of the Left and often used it in the 1980 campaign, especially near the end when they felt free to go after more Dems.
What did he use his terrific ‘leadership’ skills for? He ‘fought the Soviet Empire’ and he simplified the tax code.
Was it worth it? Well, if you had just Reagan it wouldn’t have been so bad. But, we also had Cheney and Bush 41 in that administration and they built the coalition that brought us to where we are today. They also gave us the Savings & Loan collapse and allowed corporations which were failing to steal people’s retirement funds. And, they helped the Iranian terrorist government and the Contras in South America — both were illegal and should’ve gotten Reagan impeached.
I opposed him, but only for his policies. I had no idea Bush & Co were so hard at work destroying America and promoting their own agenda.
Sure, Reagan was personally harmless, but we can’t afford naivete, ignorance or Alzheimer’s Disease in the presidency.
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