Hello, Christy!

Here and now

zed?

BADA BING!

CHS!

Morning all. Not enough coffee in the whole world, this morning…

Morning Christy!

Set up a coffee IV Christy. It’s the only way.

I don’t get it. Don’t people like Norm Coleman and Susan Collins see the writing on the wall? Are they that f-cking dumb that they’d risk their Senate career for the Decider? This is exactly why we have to take the fight to them. Why things like ActBlue matter. Why we need strong challengers to all those Republican weasels in the Senate. I only wonder when people like Coleman will break. Then again, they just might be willing to go over the cliff with the Decider.

Any news on specifics of their tragic deaths? Could they have been singled out for particularly dangerous missions because they embarrassed the president and the pro-war rabble?

Also any news updates on the minister whose leg was broken yesterday by capital police? (I am surprised how little attention this is getting even on the web – outside of FDL.

From the hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday afternoon:

WARNER: Is the country safer because of the war in Iraq?

PETRAEUS: Senator…

WARNER: General, is the country safer because of the war in Iraq?

PETRAEUS: I don’t know, Senator.

On the Today Show this morning, when Meredith Vieira asked Condi what she thought of the this exchange yesterday, she responded:

“The country will be safer when we’re successful in Iraq, which will bring more stability to the Middle East.”

Huh?

Petraeus said, “I don’t know, actually. … I have not stepped back. … I have tried to focus on what I think a commander is supposed to do, which is to determine the best recommendations to achieve the objectives of the policy for which his mission is desired.”

Shorter Pet: No.

Richmond — I linked several pieces on that above. It was apparently a vehicle accident in which 7 were killed — but details are still coming out.

Biodun @ 11

From the hearing yesterday afternoon:

WARNER: Is the country safer because of the war in Iraq?

PETRAEUS: Senator…

WARNER: General, is the country safer because of the war in Iraq?

PETRAEUS: I don’t know, Senator.

On the Today Show this morning, when Meredith Vieira asked Condi what she thought of the this exchange yesterday, she responded:

“The country will be safer when we’re successful in Iraq, which will bring more stability to the Middle East.”

Huh?

Ya sure, by joining Is*ael in bombing Iran. That will surely bring stability real soon.

Richmond @ 10

Any news on specifics of their tragic deaths? Could they have been singled out for particularly dangerous missions because they embarrassed the president and the pro-war rabble?

Also any news updates on the minister whose leg was broken yesterday by capital police? (I am surprised how little attention this is getting even on the web – outside of FDL.

there’s a little detail in the article from E&P

Thanks Christy.

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 9

I don’t get it. Don’t people like Norm Coleman and Susan Collins see the writing on the wall? Are they that f-cking dumb that they’d risk their Senate career for the Decider? This is exactly why we have to take the fight to them. Why things like ActBlue matter. Why we need strong challengers to all those Republican weasels in the Senate. I only wonder when people like Coleman will break. Then again, they just might be willing to go over the cliff with the Decider.

[hands juggling….] hmmmm. re-election. K-Street sinecure. Bush has their balls in a vise saying screw with me and you won’t work in this Repervlican party again….

Elliott — Yep, I linked that above as well. Gang, I truly do try to put useful links in the posts for everyone. Truly.

There is a saying that goes, once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.

The nation needs to hear more from our elected leaders about how not extending deployments which have already been extended from 12 to 15 months does NOT constitute draw down or reduction.
That’s like telling someone who is already working 20 hours unpaid overtime that a return to 40 hours is a pay raise.
The “surge” was never sustainable at current troop levels.

Both Mora and Gray left young children (one apiece). How about we honor them by establishing an education fund for their kids?

Or, if the families have such funds, sending in an FDL contribution.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 18

Elliott — Yep, I linked that above as well. Gang, I truly do try to put useful links in the posts for everyone. Truly.

just was helping to answer the question. Christy, you know I love your meaty posts, they’re wonderful and last all day sometimes!

EPUed, but on topic: Anyone know how Staff Sergeant Jeremy Murphy is doing? He’s the one who was shot in the head, but expected to survive. All the stories I’ve seen so far today still have his condition listed as something along the lines of “shot in the head, but expected to survive”. Has anyone seen anything more substantial?

Thanks Christy & Elliott too. I guess I was looking for something beneath the story. They are reported to have died when their cargo vehicle overturned, but an overturned truck doesn’t generally kill 7 people unless it is traveling circa 70 plus MPH on a highway and hits another vehicle, a wandering cow on the road, or something similar. Not too many superhighways in Iraq these days – or I imagine wandering cows. Sounds kinda iffy to me.

A quick perusal of NYT online fails to come up with this story. Maybe I missed it?

Biodun @ 11

From the hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday afternoon:

WARNER: Is the country safer because of the war in Iraq?

PETRAEUS: Senator…

WARNER: General, is the country safer because of the war in Iraq?

PETRAEUS: I don’t know, Senator.

On the Today Show this morning, when Meredith Vieira asked Condi what she thought of the this exchange yesterday, she responded:

“The country will be safer when we’re successful in Iraq, which will bring more stability to the Middle East.”

Huh?

I hope to hear much more of the same from my senator now that he is retiring from politics.

Interesting about Hagel, too. I used to think that he spoke out against the war as a campaign ploy given how archconservative he is otherwise. Appears I did not do him justice.

Maybe we should rehash that fun argument from the other day about the latent good in certain republicans.

Or not.

Richmond @ 25

Thanks Christy & Elliott too. I guess I was looking for something beneath the story. They are reported to have died when their cargo vehicle overturned, but an overturned truck doesn’t generally kill 7 people unless it is traveling circa 70 & MPH on a highway and hits another vehicle, a wandering cow on the road, or something similar. Not too many superhighways in Iraq these days – or I imagine wandering cows. Sounds kinda iffy to me.

I read somewhere yesterday that the truck fell 30 ft.

hanging on to the “YET”. This morning on Washington Journal almost all of the Reps (Dems and Repubs) and Senator Obey on the Diane Rehm show were all basically singing the “Iran is a threat” tune.

I really believe that the only was to stop the only way to stop the “next stop Iran” war train is for our Reps to put Impeachment on the table where it should have been all along

Unless the rumors are true that there are many in the upper ranks of the military who are willing to resign if the neocons Iran war train continues to speed up.

In the lying, killing ,cheating enviroment that the Bush administration has created it does not seem out of line to consider that these young honorable soldiers deaths were not an accident

“Privately, Democrats acknowledged that they had expected opposition to the war to grow more than it did this summer. “There was some momentum building up in June and July to change the policy,” said a senior Democratic congressional staff member. “But that’s abated.”

from an oped by E J Dionne in yesterday’s Boston Globe.

Man the phones, man the faxes.

Our soldiers doing the fighting and dying are certainly braver than Bush and our Congress.

They deserve better leadership.

mc @ 26

A quick perusal of NYT online fails to come up with this story. Maybe I missed it?

I looked at the NY Times website as well and nary a mention. Could not believe that as it has been out for a while. Perhaps it is not confirmed but they have seemed more than willing to print erroneous, unsubstantiated information in the past.

All my Reps numbers busy.

Senator Sherrod Brown, Voinovich and Rep. Charlie Wilson

Christy Hardin Smith @ 18

Elliott — Yep, I linked that above as well. Gang, I truly do try to put useful links in the posts for everyone. Truly.

I know you do Christy. I’ve embarrassed myself sometimes in the comments by saying something that’s already in one of your links, and then finding that out later. I learned my lesson…*g*

Kathleen @ 29

hanging on to the “YET”. This morning on Washington Journal almost all of the Reps (Dems and Repubs) and Senator Obey on the Diane Rehm show were all basically singing the “Iran is a threat” tune.

I really believe that the only was to stop the only way to stop the “next stop Iran” war train is for our Reps to put Impeachment on the table where it should have been all along

Unless the rumors are true that there are many in the upper ranks of the military who are willing to resign if the neocons Iran war train continues to speed up.

In the lying, killing, cheating enviroment that the Bush administration has created it does not seem out of line to consider that these young honorable soldiers deaths were not an accident

Obey is, I believe, a Representative from Wisconsin.

Liarputz! supports killing the troops and supports Demeto-In-Chief 100 percent!

That’s how it has to happen this time, as well, with a candidate making the antiwar argument backed by progressive movement people that support these ideas. And that’s probably the strongest reason the ‘idea strategy’ makes sense, and the unity strategy does not. Fundamentally, Americans make their politically decisions through democratic means, and a backroom deal is not democratic and cannot carry the legitimacy necessary to win.

& wee small hours! one of the best of the best, imho

Chicago Todd @ 32

mc @ 26

A quick perusal of NYT online fails to come up with this story. Maybe I missed it?

I looked at the NY Times website as well and nary a mention. Could not believe that as it has been out for a while. Perhaps it is not confirmed but they have seemed more than willing to print erroneous, unsubstantiated information in the past.

It seems like no one’s really clear on what actually happened. This has the potential to be a big story, and they need to get it right. I’m willing to wait for the definitive piece.

radiofreewill @ 31

Our soldiers doing the fighting and dying are certainly braver than Bush and our Congress.

They deserve better leadership.

A few humble suggestions . . .

O/t -

This is supposedly Snow’s last day at the WH press room…………Quel dommage!

Wonder how long before he is rehired by faux noise?

Christy Hardin Smith @ 6

Morning all. Not enough coffee in the whole world, this morning…

Mornin’ Christy

A huge dark cloud hovers. That the misadministration has little regard for the finality of death, has me mourning and somber today.

While I was listening to the highlight reel of the Foreign Relations Hearing on CSpan last night, I caught Lindsey Graham’s part. He was honing in on the fact that by supporting keeping 100K troops in Iraq after the surge drawdown, he was essentially ensuring that Petraeus’ own son will be deployed either to Iraq or Afghanistan. I was a little shocked by his harshness and still wonder about his motivation for being so tough about it, given his hawk attitude toward the war. I had to go to his website to make sure I was right about him, and I was. I have to say, I thought it was a meaner attack than anything he experienced at the hands of Dem questioners and certainly was more nasty than any ad.

petwrecker at 36 — One of my favorites. I looked for a YouTube of Liza Minelli — she did one of the best renditions of that song that I’ve ever heard on an album of standards a few years back but, alas, I couldn’t find it. Not that a Sinatra version is settling, not by a long shot, but hers was awfully melancholy and suited my mood this morning. Have it playing on my iPod right now, as a matter of fact. (You can hear a clip of it here…)

if the tragic deaths of those two officers has some kind of impact on the Iraq “debate,” they may be the first of the thousands and hundreds of thousands killed not to have died for nothing.

Waccamaw @ 39

O/t -

This is supposedly Snow’s last day at the WH press room…………Quel dommage!

Wonder how long before he is rehired by faux noise?

Rehired? Was he ever off their payroll?

zennurse @ 41

While I was listening to the highlight reel of the Foreign Relations Hearing on CSpan last night, I caught Lindsey Graham’s part. He was honing in on the fact that by supporting keeping 100K troops in Iraq after the surge drawdown, he was essentially ensuring that Petraeus’ own son will be deployed either to Iraq or Afghanistan. I was a little shocked by his harshness and still wonder about his motivation for being so tough about it, given his hawk attitude toward the war. I had to go to his website to make sure I was right about him, and I was. I have to say, I thought it was a meaner attack than anything he experienced at the hands of Dem questioners and certainly was more nasty than any ad.

Yep. Huckleberry was brutal and personal. h/t

I left this last night on one of the threads.

David Sirota had this up at Working for Change. This is a meeting that occurred betw the Democrats in Congress now and lobbyists for the listed corporations (starts pg 7) who have essentially taken over the Democratic Party. Many of the people listed on pp 7-10 were once congressional staffers; they are now lobbyists.

I believe Obey’s wife is on the list.

This goes a long way to explaining why impeachment is off the table, why war profiteering is continuing apace, and why there will never be any change in this country until people like all of us here who spend literally hours out of our days bemoaning what has become of our country and the Democrats realize that both parties are complicit in the sins of this administration and until we find another party things ain’t gonna change.

David Sirota on the hostile takeover of the Democratic Party from within.

One would think that the New York Times, having published the Op-ed in question, might be interested in the deaths of two of the authors. I tried searching for “Yance Gray” and “Omar Mora” and came up with nothing save the original op-ed.

Is anyone awake at the Times?

Over at the WaPo, similar searches turn up only Froomkin’s column from August on the op-ed.

Which will be first to breathlessly break the news to the Powers That Be in DC?

This links directly to the info Sirota refers to. You can get there either way.

Hostile Takeover

zennurse @ 41

While I was listening to the highlight reel of the Foreign Relations Hearing on CSpan last night, I caught Lindsey Graham’s part. He was honing in on the fact that by supporting keeping 100K troops in Iraq after the surge drawdown, he was essentially ensuring that Petraeus’ own son will be deployed either to Iraq or Afghanistan. I was a little shocked by his harshness and still wonder about his motivation for being so tough about it, given his hawk attitude toward the war. I had to go to his website to make sure I was right about him, and I was. I have to say, I thought it was a meaner attack than anything he experienced at the hands of Dem questioners and certainly was more nasty than any ad.

I need to clarify this, Graham was forcefully questioning Petraeus about this, not just bloviating, and was honing down from the effect on the troops as a whole to Petraeus’ troops, finally to his son. Maybe he meant to make Petraeus into some kind of hero about it, but I found it cruel and mean.

Here’s also something posted on AOL News website on the deaths of two sergeants who wrote the NYTimes op-ed pieces. I’m postitive the Times will do a definitive article on the story. They have to: willy-nilly they’re involved in it.

kdh22 @ 40

Christy Hardin Smith @ 6

Morning all. Not enough coffee in the whole world, this morning…

Mornin’ Christy

A huge dark cloud hovers. That the misadministration has little regard for the finality of death, has me mourning and somber today.

yeah. although, the weather here is beautiful and i’m drinking my second cup of coffee… i think 2 days of watching the dog and pony show hearings did not do good things for my mental state.

…while i’m making these phone calls, does anyone have the correct number to call in support of rev. yearwood? thanks.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t there going to be a new war funding bill coming up that requires only a simple majority to pass or defeat? In which case, no veto-proof majority required.

Peterr @ 47

One would think that the New York Times, having published the Op-ed in question, might be interested in the deaths of two of the authors. I tried searching for “Yance Gray” and “Omar Mora” and came up with nothing save the original op-ed.

Is anyone awake at the Times?

Over at the WaPo, similar searches turn up only Froomkin’s column from August on the op-ed.

Which will be first to breathlessly break the news to the Powers That Be in DC?

Media Matters?

Morning Christy,

So sad about the two NCOs who we’ve lost. At least they spoke out and have that as part of their legacy.

I do hope we get some conscientious Repubs over to our side, but I’m sure we’d have better success if the leadership hadn’t announced its plans to “compromise” so quickly and publicly.

Biodun @ 50

Here’s also something posted on AOL News website on the deaths of two sergeants who wrote the NYTimes op-ed pieces. I’m postitive the Times will do a definitive article on the story. They have to: willy-nilly they’re involved in it.

They don’t seem to have even noticed the story thus far. (see my comment @ 47)

newtonusr @ 45

zennurse @ 41

While I was listening to the highlight reel of the Foreign Relations Hearing on CSpan last night, I caught Lindsey Graham’s part. He was honing in on the fact that by supporting keeping 100K troops in Iraq after the surge drawdown, he was essentially ensuring that Petraeus’ own son will be deployed either to Iraq or Afghanistan. I was a little shocked by his harshness and still wonder about his motivation for being so tough about it, given his hawk attitude toward the war. I had to go to his website to make sure I was right about him, and I was. I have to say, I thought it was a meaner attack than anything he experienced at the hands of Dem questioners and certainly was more nasty than any ad.

Yep. Huckleberry was brutal and personal. h/t

He was trying to refute the notion that no one supporting the surge has a vested or personal issue in it. Now, he (and other Rs) can stand up and point to Petraeus and his son of examples of Rs being sent into danger as a balance to Webb and Tim Johnson. It’s a wonder McCain has not played the same cards with his sons.

Larry at 52 — Depends on how the bill is worded, doesn’t it?

Frank Probst @ 37

Chicago Todd @ 32

I looked at the NY Times website as well and nary a mention. Could not believe that as it has been out for a while. Perhaps it is not confirmed but they have seemed more than willing to print erroneous, unsubstantiated information in the past.

It seems like no one’s really clear on what actually happened. This has the potential to be a big story, and they need to get it right. I’m willing to wait for the definitive piece.

I called Clinton and Schumer’s offices to insist that an investigation be opened into these two deaths complete with CID and FBI personnel taking statements and securing evidence including going out to the scene of the “accident” and immediately interviewing everyone even if a preliminary investigation has been done.

This stinks.

james @ 46

I left this last night on one of the threads.

David Sirota had this up at Working for Change. This is a meeting that occurred betw the Democrats in Congress now and lobbyists for the listed corporations (starts pg 7) who have essentially taken over the Democratic Party. Many of the people listed on pp 7-10 were once congressional staffers; they are now lobbyists.

I believe Obey’s wife is on the list.

This goes a long way to explaining why impeachment is off the table, why war profiteering is continuing apace, and why there will never be any change in this country until people like all of us here who spend literally hours out of our days bemoaning what has become of our country and the Democrats realize that both parties are complicit in the sins of this administration and until we find another party things ain’t gonna change.

David Sirota on the hostile takeover of the Democratic Party from within.

The KEY change now and say 20 years ago is the huge increase in the NUMBERS of lobbiests – and concommitant with this, their close personal or family ties with Congress people. I think we should focus efforts on cutting the numbers back to say 1970s levels, each industry or professional group (MD, Attorneys, Teachers) would have the right to a certain number only. Members of Congression criters families (spouces, children, siblings, parents) would be forbidden from lobbying, and those working in Congress and the WH would not be allowed to lobby for 5 years after they have left.

AP – Stabilizing Iraq will be a lengthy process that won’t end when violence in that country — and U.S. troop strength — are reduced, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Wednesday.

Richmond @ 14

Biodun @ 11

From the hearing yesterday afternoon:

WARNER: Is the country safer because of the war in Iraq?

PETRAEUS: Senator…

WARNER: General, is the country safer because of the war in Iraq?

PETRAEUS: I don’t know, Senator.

On the Today Show this morning, when Meredith Vieira asked Condi what she thought of the this exchange yesterday, she responded:

“The country will be safer when we’re successful in Iraq, which will bring more stability to the Middle East.”

Huh?

Ya sure, by joining Is*ael in bombing Iran. That will surely bring stability real soon.

During the Vietnam debacle, I remember finding this carved into a desk at IUN: Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity!

Still holds true, if you ask me.

I thought a lot last night about how Petraeus was looking at Carl Levin, it was a very different engagement than with most of the others (Rethug or Dem). To me it suggests that Levin is seen to be key to keeping the Dems on board on this. In that case seems to me, this very interchange suggests the fix has long been in.

A little expansion about Omar Mora, and interview with his mom:

http://news.galvestondailynews…..514bea7e10

I could not find a searchable transcript of Petraeus’ testimony yesterday, just his opening statement. Anyway, I remember during the questioning yesterday Petraeus being asked about the soldiers’ op-ed. He was dismissive, saying that there were 167,000 different opinions about what to do in Iraq. In other words, every soldier had his/her own opinion. I wished at the time that someone had asked him why we should give any greater weight to his opinion than theirs.

Ann- LOL *g*

james @ 48

This links directly to the info Sirota refers to. You can get there either way.

Hostile Takeover

from page 3 (my bold):
Luncheon Keynote Speaker Matt Bai: The Future of the Democratic Party

Christy Hardin Smith @ 57

Larry at 52 — Depends on how the bill is worded, doesn’t it?

The twist, of course, is how the bill gets spun. It’s an appropriations bill, which means that a filibuster or veto keeps anything from being funded.

If the GOP filibuster the bill, then no supplemental money is appropriated. If it gets passed and Bush vetoes it, then no supplemental money is appropriated.

Dems need to call the GOP’s bluff and make them filibuster and/or veto the bill. If they do, reword it, and do it again.

We’re already in a lather — just rinse and repeat.

“Here’s the money for Iraq, Mr. President. All you have to do is sign on the dotted line.”

Biodun @ 50

Here’s also something posted on AOL News website on the deaths of two sergeants who wrote the NYTimes op-ed pieces. I’m postitive the Times will do a definitive article on the story. They have to: willy-nilly they’re involved in it.

Bill Keller is the NYT’s executive editor and a Iraq warwhore. You may have to wait awhile or dig for where he buried it.

dakine01 @ 56

newtonusr @ 45

Yep. Huckleberry was brutal and personal. h/t

He was trying to refute the notion that no one supporting the surge has a vested or personal issue in it. Now, he (and other Rs) can stand up and point to Petraeus and his son of examples of Rs being sent into danger as a balance to Webb and Tim Johnson. It’s a wonder McCain has not played the same cards with his sons.

But while trying to benefit from it, he brought into pretty sharp relief the future of the ME and our kids hand in it. Overall a stalemate I think, but a very pointed exchange.

Ann in AZ @ 61

Richmond @ 14

Ya sure, by joining Is*ael in bombing Iran. That will surely bring stability real soon.

During the Vietnam debacle, I remember finding this carved into a desk at IUN: Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity!

Still holds true, if you ask me.

I left this bumpersticker I saw in comments a long time ago, I remember Jane got a real kick out of it:

“Yeehaw is not a Foreign Policy”

Also saw another a few days ago that I liked:

“Far too informed to vote Republican”

zennurse @ 30

“Privately, Democrats acknowledged that they had expected opposition to the war to grow more than it did this summer. “There was some momentum building up in June and July to change the policy,” said a senior Democratic congressional staff member. “But that’s abated.”

from an oped by E J Dionne in yesterday’s Boston Globe.

Man the phones, man the faxes.

Rep. Woolsey supposedly said we need to put more pressure on the Dems, since they are not listening.

http://thehill.com/leading-the…..09-12.html

Peterr @ 67

Christy Hardin Smith @ 57

Larry at 52 — Depends on how the bill is worded, doesn’t it?

The twist, of course, is how the bill gets spun. It’s an appropriations bill, which means that a fillibuster or veto keeps anything from being funded.

If the GOP fillibuster the bill, then no supplemental money is appropriated. If it gets passed and Bush vetoes it, then no supplemental money is appropriated.

Dems need to call the GOP’s bluff and make them fillibuster and/or veto the bill. If they do, reword it, and do it again.

We’re already in a lather — just rinse and repeat.

“Here’s the money for Iraq, Mr. President. All you have to do is sign on the dotted line.”

Can’t Pelosi all by herself keep the bill from coming to the floor? No bill, no funding.

Re: those two deaths:

As Shakespeare said in Hamlet: “Something is rotten in Denmark.”

Even Pat Buchanan is mocking the Dem leadership…

http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/200…../op_333787

What happened to the party of Speaker Pelosi and Reid, which was going to end U.S. involvement in the war and not permit Bush to pursue victory the way Richard Nixon pursued it in Vietnam for four years?

Answer: Terrified of the possible consequences of the policies they recommend, Democrats lack the courage to impose those policies.

When it comes to issues of war, Democrats are an intimidated lot. Sens. Clinton, Edwards, Biden, Dodd and Reid were all stampeded by Bush into voting him a blank check for war in October 2002. Why? Because they feared Bush would declare them weak or unpatriotic if they denied him the authority to go to war, at a time of his choosing, until he had made a more compelling case for war.

Now they regret what they did. But, in a showdown, they will do it again. For Democrats have been psychologically damaged by 60 years of GOP attacks on them as the party of retreat and surrender.

Peterr @ 67

Christy Hardin Smith @ 57

Larry at 52 — Depends on how the bill is worded, doesn’t it?

The twist, of course, is how the bill gets spun. It’s an appropriations bill, which means that a fillibuster or veto keeps anything from being funded.

If the GOP fillibuster the bill, then no supplemental money is appropriated. If it gets passed and Bush vetoes it, then no supplemental money is appropriated.

Dems need to call the GOP’s bluff and make them fillibuster and/or veto the bill. If they do, reword it, and do it again.

We’re already in a lather — just rinse and repeat.

“Here’s the money for Iraq, Mr. President. All you have to do is sign on the dotted line.”

That’s what they should have done the last time we did this dance. They don’t have to guts to do it, because they’re afraid that Bush–even though he’s the one vetoing the funding bills–is going to blame the whole thing on the Dems.

I decided to post the whole article I earlier linked to:

http://thehill.com/leading-the…..09-12.html

Woolsey calls for attacks on colleagues
By Jonathan E. Kaplan
September 12, 2007

Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.) is encouraging anti-war activists to find challengers to centrist Democrats, with the aim of moving the party to the left and ramping up opposition to the war in Iraq, to the chagrin of top Democratic aides.

“You folks should go after the Democrats,” Woolsey said in response to a suggestion from an activist during a conference call last month organized by the Network of Spiritual Progressives.

“I’d hate to lose the majority, but I’m telling you, if we don’t stand up to our responsibility, maybe that’s the lesson to be learned.”

[snip]

CHS notes: Please do not post entire articles, because it is a copyright violation. Thank you.

JFK – Profiles in Courage

Dubya/Chee-knee – Profiles in Cowardice, Corruption, Cronyism and Con Artistry

Tillman, the Times Seven, all the “fallen angels” and the valiant men and women rehabbing their broken wings and the long-toured National Guardsmen and every troop serving in Iraq and around the world, doing their duty despite the flawed and venal policy – New Profiles in Courage.

Is that 3 out of 7 who are no longer alive?

What if 7 of 7 have ‘accidents’?

maybe some Congressional (D)’s will someday investigate it.

Bush to announce troop drawdown, officials say
President to speak Thursday; proposal mirrors Petraeus’ recommendation

The Democrats are going to get this mess, and perhaps more dumped in their lap if they win in 2008.

The Democrats should craft a defense appropriation that only funds redeployment of our troops and equipment from Iraq, sees to the unfinished business in Afghanistan and the border areas of Pakistan, brings home our National Guard, funds full health services for Iraq War veterans, and commits some troops to a multi-national peacekeeping force under the aegis of the United Nations and the nations neighboring Iraq.

Pass it and send it to Bush. Let him veto it. Remind the American people what’s in the bill, what it does, and pass it again.

The politicans who are serious about ending the war should look at the process like a fifteen round fight with the last round scheduled for November of 2008. This is a fight that would galvanize people. It is a fight that proponents of the war could not sustain. This is a government shutdown with which people could sympathize.

Let’s see who wins in the end.

This is terrible news-thanks Christy, for catching it so far ahead of the “trad media”. Your photo pick of the weeping angel was perfect – I knew right away to expect something like this.
OTOH, Kathleen, we seemed to have heard Rep. Obey differently on Diane Rehm – he described Iran in passing as “dangerous,” but only after a lengthy description of our government’s huge mistakes toward Iran, that began something like, “Our gov’t has had a really stupid policy toward Iran for more than 50 years,” and described the overthrow of Mossadegh and the way that Bush’s treatment of Ahmadinejad turned him from a “rube” with little influence into a power.
My take-away was that Obey is a counterweight to the drumbeat of “attack Iran.”

Folks, please do not post entire articles — do a snippet and a link. Otherwise, you are violating copyright. Capice?

But the votes are not there — yet — to force changes necessary, to override a GOP filibuster or a Presidential veto.

IIRC it takes only 40 senators to sustain a Democratic filibuster to block any funding bill that does not contain timelines for complete withdrawal.

Peterr @ 67

Christy Hardin Smith @ 57

Larry at 52 — Depends on how the bill is worded, doesn’t it?

The twist, of course, is how the bill gets spun. It’s an appropriations bill, which means that a fillibuster or veto keeps anything from being funded.

If the GOP fillibuster the bill, then no supplemental money is appropriated. If it gets passed and Bush vetoes it, then no supplemental money is appropriated.

Dems need to call the GOP’s bluff and make them fillibuster and/or veto the bill. If they do, reword it, and do it again.

We’re already in a lather — just rinse and repeat.

“Here’s the money for Iraq, Mr. President. All you have to do is sign on the dotted line.”

I’m not sure that a major appropriations bill can be filibustered. Reid pulled the Senate version of the Defense Authorization bill because the Republicans were trying to put all kinds of amendments but they weren’t filibustering it. For the rest, I agree, pass it, let it get vetoed, repass, repeat as necessary and skewer Bush and the Republicans for not supporting the troops and not honoring the will of the American people.

Unfortunately, this would require cojones and Democrats have no idea what these are.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 82

Folks, please do not post entire articles — do a snippet and a link. Otherwise, you are violating copyright. Capice?

My bad. Sorry!!! I thought it was important, and figured if sourced properly it was okay. I won’t do it again.

kdh22 @ 40

Christy Hardin Smith @ 6

Morning all. Not enough coffee in the whole world, this morning…

Mornin’ Christy

A huge dark cloud hovers. That the misadministration has little regard for the finality of death, has me mourning and somber today.

epu’d, (depressing, but, bracing) and full-throttle-truth compared to the lying-bovine-scatology we witnessed the passed few days. and with 9-11-07

The American nation is in the worst condition I can remember in my lifetime, and our prospects for the immediate future are even worse. . . The Bush family must be very proud of themselves today, but I am not. Big Darkness, soon come. Take my word for it.”

and on the lighter side,

Pop quiz folks: Is Joe Lieberman insane?
Or is he simply the most grotesque, maladjusted, oil-soaked, sociopathic Morlock who really knows the truth about Iraq, but is willing to send more troops to die needlessly when he actually understands how screwed things are?

(Pride, or superbia, is a deadly sin ya know Joe).

See with President Dumbass, I don’t have to ask that question. I know his moral catheter Dick is inserting fantasy into The Decider’s vacuous noggin while he lays prone slurping SpaghettiOs and navigating the many complexities of “the google” to find the Cartoon Network.

Yet, I was always under the impression that this yapping, little, self-promoting Shitzu (with my apologies to canines everywhere) had a brain, if not a heart. My bad.

Joe @9 asked: don’t Coleman & Collins see the writing on the wall, are they willing to risk their senate careers siding with the decider?
I would ask similar questions of Dem reps & senators.
I’m really tired of meaningless phrases by our legislators such as “strong, principled, far-sighted leadership”. That was said by Joe Liarman but I hear too many Dems spouting the same kind of gibberish. Lofty sounding words that only serve to shield, not clarify. We need a lot more plain talking, telling it like it is.

And this link has embedded links to coverage of the story of those two deaths. Everybody is scooping the NYTimes on what is their story from the start.

Helpless Dancer @ 72

Peterr @ 67

The twist, of course, is how the bill gets spun. It’s an appropriations bill, which means that a fillibuster or veto keeps anything from being funded.

If the GOP filibuster the bill, then no supplemental money is appropriated. If it gets passed and Bush vetoes it, then no supplemental money is appropriated.

Dems need to call the GOP’s bluff and make them fillibuster and/or veto the bill. If they do, reword it, and do it again.

We’re already in a lather — just rinse and repeat.

“Here’s the money for Iraq, Mr. President. All you have to do is sign on the dotted line.”

Can’t Pelosi all by herself keep the bill from coming to the floor? No bill, no funding.

In theory, yes; in a practical manner, no.

She — or any other speaker — can’t sit on a bill that the president submits for military spending while troops are in the field. The opposing party would have a field day.

What she can do, though, is put in the requirement — not suggestion — for withdrawl, redeployment, and removal of US troops by a date certain. She can put in a prohibition on permanent US bases in Iraq.

If she puts things like this into this bill, the debate would be ferocious. If the Dems get it passed, both in the House and Senate, it would put Bush in a terrible position, forcing him to veto or back down publicly. (And we all know how often he backs down publicly.) If the Senate GOP filibusters and prevents a vote in the Senate, then it is up to the Dems to make it clear who is responsible for the troops not getting their money: George Bush, Mitch McConnell and Trent Lott.

The highlight of my day yesterday was seeing Joe Lieberman become Olbermann’s “Worst Person in the World”. I’ll bet Jane liked it too. Had to do with Hannity & Coulter’s Freedom concert…

sporkovat @ 78

Is that 3 out of 7 who are no longer alive?

What if 7 of 7 have ‘accidents’?

maybe some Congressional (D)’s will someday investigate it.

These deaths and another soldier shot in the head out of the same honorable group is just a wee bit suspicious. I would say that our phone calls should include demanding an immediate investigation of these deaths.

What a message this would send to any soldiers thinking about speaking out!

sporkovat @ 78

Is that 3 out of 7 who are no longer alive?

What if 7 of 7 have ‘accidents’?

maybe some Congressional (D)’s will someday investigate it.

No they won’t. They will be too afraid.

Peterr @ 47

One would think that the New York Times, having published the Op-ed in question, might be interested in the deaths of two of the authors. I tried searching for “Yance Gray” and “Omar Mora” and came up with nothing save the original op-ed.

Is anyone awake at the Times?

Over at the WaPo, similar searches turn up only Froomkin’s column from August on the op-ed.

Which will be first to breathlessly break the news to the Powers That Be in DC?

Is anyone awake at the Times?

The Times is awake all right. NYT stock just hit a new low. Ad revenues are for shit.

The times is probably preoccupied with the coming implosion of hedge funds.

I just love politics and pols.

Barack Obama is set to call for the withdrawal of all US combat troops from Iraq by the end of next year, it was reported today.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/…..97,00.html

At the end of her speech, Mrs. Clinton pointed to what she saw as a discrepancy in the general’s responses to questions from other senators about whether he would recommend that America keep 130,000 troops in Iraq a year from now if no progress was made toward national reconciliation.

http://www.nysun.com/article/62426

wigwam @ 83

But the votes are not there — yet — to force changes necessary, to override a GOP filibuster or a Presidential veto.

IIRC it takes only 40 senators to sustain a Democratic filibuster to block any funding bill that does not contain timelines for complete withdrawal.

John Edwards “No timeline, no funding, no excuses”

Since Petraeus’ boss is one of the great pathological liars of our time, Petraeus’ credibility therefore becomes zero and he might as well have just sat there and emitted nothing but radio static the whole time.

zennurse @ 70

Ann in AZ @ 61

During the Vietnam debacle, I remember finding this carved into a desk at IUN: Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity!

Still holds true, if you ask me.

I left this bumpersticker I saw in comments a long time ago, I remember Jane got a real kick out of it:

“Yeehaw is not a Foreign Policy”

Also saw another a few days ago that I liked:

“Far too informed to vote Republican”

I saw these two on the same car…..wanted to compliment the driver but she was too far ahead at red light:

Drunken Frat Boy Drives Country Into Ditch

We Have the Fossils. We Win. (with the fish symbol)

I followed up phone calls to Schumer and Clinton with this email:

I would like to see the senator demand an immediate investigation into the deaths of S/Sgt Gray and Sgt. Mora in Iraq. Both of these men were authors, with others, of an op-ed in the NY Times that was critical of the war. Questions that should be asked include:

1. Were these men travelling with their own squad and unit?
2. Where were they headed and for what purpose?
3. What was their positions in the truck that “rolled over?”
4. What injuries were sustained by other people in the truck if any?
5. How many people were in the vehicle in addition to these men?
6. Who was driving and what is his record?
7. Which units has he previously served with?
8. Were their personal effects safeguarded, including any writings or were they destroyed a la Pat Tillman?

I want the Criminal Investigations Division of the Army and the FBI to conduct an investigation into this.

Even as Petraeus was speaking to Congress on 11 September, he knew these two soldiers were dead yet said nothing.

I want to see something about this and I want to hear the senator speaking out about my concerns.

Thank you,

Peterr @ 89

Helpless Dancer @ 72

Can’t Pelosi all by herself keep the bill from coming to the floor? No bill, no funding.

In theory, yes; in a practical manner, no.

She — or any other speaker — can’t sit on a bill that the president submits for military spending while troops are in the field. The opposing party would have a field day.

What she can do, though, is put in the requirement — not suggestion — for withdrawl, redeployment, and removal of US troops by a date certain. She can put in a prohibition on permanent US bases in Iraq.

If she puts things like this into this bill, the debate would be ferocious. If the Dems get it passed, both in the House and Senate, it would put Bush in a terrible position, forcing him to veto or back down publicly. (And we all know how often he backs down publicly.) If the Senate GOP filibusters and prevents a vote in the Senate, then it is up to the Dems to make it clear who is responsible for the troops not getting their money: George Bush, Mitch McConnell and Trent Lott.

Excellent analysis (as always), Peterr

AirAmerica is having a call in about candidates. Call after call for Kucinich…

http://www.airamerica.com

ccmask @ 90

The highlight of my day yesterday was seeing Joe Lieberman become Olbermann’s “Worst Person in the World”. I’ll bet Jane liked it too. Had to do with Hannity & Coulter’s Freedom concert…

Lieberman reminds me of the beginning of Richard III:

And therefore, since I cannot prove a lover,
To entertain these fair well-spoken days,
I am determined to prove a villain
And hate the idle pleasures of these days.

OKk, I think you might enjoy today’s Milbank, “Enough About the War, Let’s Talk About Me.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02154.html

I believe that one of the seven had been ’shot in the head’ at the time of the NYT Op-Ed. I’m not sure, and I don’t know the extent of his wound, but I haven’t read that he has died.

It’s been almost a year since the last election. And what do we have to show for it? More troops in Iraq, closer to bombing Iran, a commutation for Libby and talk, talk, talk.

Laura Doty @ 5

CHS!

Charleston High School?

FORT BRAGG, N.C. (AP) — Seven soldiers killed in a vehicle accident in Iraq were members of the 82nd Airborne Division’s 2nd Brigade, a military spokesman said Tuesday.

The soldiers were returning from a raid that took place late Sunday and early Monday when their truck “veered off an elevated highway” and fell about 30 feet, Earnhardt said.

radiofreewill @ 103

I believe that one of the seven had been ’shot in the head’ at the time of the NYT Op-Ed. I’m not sure, and I don’t know the extent of his wound, but I haven’t read that he has died.

At the time, they said he had been evacuated and was expected to survive.

kdh22 @ 98

Peterr @ 89

In theory, yes; in a practical manner, no.

She — or any other speaker — can’t sit on a bill that the president submits for military spending while troops are in the field. The opposing party would have a field day.

What she can do, though, is put in the requirement — not suggestion — for withdrawl, redeployment, and removal of US troops by a date certain. She can put in a prohibition on permanent US bases in Iraq.

If she puts things like this into this bill, the debate would be ferocious. If the Dems get it passed, both in the House and Senate, it would put Bush in a terrible position, forcing him to veto or back down publicly. (And we all know how often he backs down publicly.) If the Senate GOP filibusters and prevents a vote in the Senate, then it is up to the Dems to make it clear who is responsible for the troops not getting their money: George Bush, Mitch McConnell and Trent Lott.

Excellent analysis (as always), Peterr

were any blackwater or other non-military contracted or non contracted persons involved?

zennurse @ 41

My take on Ol’ Huckleberry was that he was trying to stress the point that if General Petraeus’ son was going to Iraq, he REALLY must have confidence in President Bush’s stratergery, and only communist terrorist sympathizers would question it……….

zennurse at #70 and oddmommy at #97, loved all four of those. Hope a lot more come out by next year!

On Monday evening, the AP reported the story of the truck accident, with no names attached (likely because the next of kin had yet to be formally notified). The description of the event as presented by the WaPo is this:

In western Baghdad, seven U.S. soldiers were killed in a vehicle accident that also claimed the lives of two detainees, the military said. Eleven soldiers from Multinational Division-Baghdad and one detainee were also injured in the west Baghdad accident, the military said without giving further details. The U.S. statement made no mention of hostile fire and did not specify the neighborhood.

A U.S. spokesman, Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl, said all the victims were traveling in the same vehicle.

The article puts this into a larger context of pre-Petraeus/Crocker testimony, ongoing violence in Iraq, etc. This is all it says about the accident.

That makes one shot before the article appeared, and two killed after. I hope the remaining four are watching their backs closely.

Frank Probst @ 44

Waccamaw @ 39

O/t -

This is supposedly Snow’s last day at the WH press room…………Quel dommage!

Wonder how long before he is rehired reappears on faux noise?

Rehired? Was he ever off their payroll?

Ouch! Ya got me on that one……see correction above. *g*

http://www.democracynow.org/ar…..12/1410237

“In 2004, 2005, he was given the mission to train all Iraq military and police forces. And, in fact, in July 2004, Newsweek had this cover of him, saying that Petraeus was going to train Iraqis to take over the fight. Now, the reality is, is that was, of course, a failure, because three years later he was back with an escalation of US forces.

Now, one of the key things that Petraeus did was they decided — him and his command decided — that they were going to create this paramilitary force, the Special Police Commandos. They armed them. They funded them. They trained them. And they also issued the usual denials: “Oh, we’re not giving them any weapons. This is an Iraqi initiative.” And so, now he’s saying the same thing with the Sunni militias.

So, anyway, the Special Police Commandos quickly morphed into Shiite death squads that were used against the Sunni insurgency and against Sunnis, in general, throughout Iraq. And this played a key role in terms of stoking and fomenting the civil war, because you had these death squads wearing government uniforms, being armed and trained by the US, going around killing Sunnis randomly. It generally alienated the Sunni Arab population from the government and drove them into the arms of the resistance.

Now what Petraeus is doing is he’s funding and arming these Sunni militias. And there are reports that have stated clearly with these militias saying, like, “Yes, we’re getting weapons from the US government.” And part of it is, is that they do want to fight al-Qaeda in Iraq, which is another Sunni-based group. It’s an Iraqi-based group. But their main purpose is they want this money and weapons and aid to fight the Shiite militias.

So here we have them, like in 2004, setting up these Shiite militias, and now he’s setting up these Sunni militias to fight these Shiite militias. And what it portends is just an absolute disaster for Iraq. And, of course, it will also be used as justification: “Well, we can’t leave because a bloodbath will result.” But we’re not looking at the fact that it’s the US that’s creating this bloodbath.”

Oathtakers Beware…

Ann in AZ @ 110

zennurse at #70 and oddmommy at #97, loved all four of those. Hope a lot more come out by next year!

I spotted this one this morning on my way in:
MY POODLE IS SMARTER THAN MY PRESIDENT

james @ 97

I followed up phone calls to Schumer and Clinton with this email:

I would like to see the senator demand an immediate investigation into the deaths of S/Sgt Gray and Sgt. Mora in Iraq. Both of these men were authors, with others, of an op-ed in the NY Times that was critical of the war. Questions that should be asked include:

1. Were these men travelling with their own squad and unit?
2. Where were they headed and for what purpose?
3. What was their positions in the truck that “rolled over?”
4. What injuries were sustained by other people in the truck if any?
5. How many people were in the vehicle in addition to these men?
6. Who was driving and what is his record?
7. Which units has he previously served with?
8. Were their personal effects safeguarded, including any writings or were they destroyed a la Pat Tillman?

I want the Criminal Investigations Division of the Army and the FBI to conduct an investigation into this.

Even as Petraeus was speaking to Congress on 11 September, he knew these two soldiers were dead yet said nothing.

I want to see something about this and I want to hear the senator speaking out about my concerns.

Thank you,

sorry for prev

again

were any blackwater or other non-military contracted or non contracted persons involved?

PLovering @ 93

Is anyone awake at the Times?

The Times is awake all right. NYT stock just hit a new low. Ad revenues are for shit.

The times is probably preoccupied with the coming implosion of hedge funds.

Two words: Bill Keller

BTW you could have knocked me over with a feather yesterday Michael Gordon had a piece of analysis up that was almost objective saying that Petraeus’ view of a drawdown was fundamentally different from that of the Congress. Will wonders never cease?

Re: The NYTimes and Iraq war coverage. Interesting tidbit from Salon’s War Room:

The New York Times’ Elisabeth Bumiller — the White House correspondent who famously admitted to being too frightened to ask George W. Bush aggressive questions on the eve of war — is back from a leave she spent writing a book about Condoleezza Rice. The Times dispatched her to Capitol Hill Tuesday to see how the presidential candidates were greeting the testimony of Gen. David Petraeus and ambassador Ryan Crocker.

How’d she do?

It’s as if she never left.

As we sat through Tuesday’s hearings — right across the table from Bumiller, actually — we couldn’t help noticing how effusive Sen. John McCain was in his praise for the strategy Petraeus is implementing and advocating. “We’re getting it right because we finally have in place a strategy that can succeed,” McCain said in his introductory remarks. “We must, as Gen. Petraeus intends, keep this strategy in place. It’s the only approach that has resulted in real security improvement in Iraq.”

So what does Bumiller say about McCain? She notes that he is “a strong supporter of the war” and that he “treated Gen. Petraeus as a comrade,” but she lumps McCain in with Democratic presidential contenders who “zeroed in on the reality” that the next president may still be dealing with decisions on troop withdrawals, and she says that McCain was “still unsparing in some of his questions.”

(Believe me: This is a snippet.)

peanutbutter @ 115

Ann in AZ @ 110

zennurse at #70 and oddmommy at #97, loved all four of those. Hope a lot more come out by next year!

I spotted this one this morning on my way in:
MY POODLE IS SMARTER THAN MY PRESIDENT

Tailgaiting Jane huh?

oddmommy @ 102

OKk, I think you might enjoy today’s Milbank, “Enough About the War, Let’s Talk About Me.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02154.html

I’ll take a look. Tnx.

OT..

Using statistics and methodology that some voting experts are calling “flawed,” the Justice Department’s Voting Section is telling 10 US states to purge voter rolls which allegedly show more registered voters than are eligible–a house-cleaning effort AlterNet’s Steven Rosenfeld says could swing the 2008 election.

link

raven @ 106

FORT BRAGG, N.C. (AP) — Seven soldiers killed in a vehicle accident in Iraq were members of the 82nd Airborne Division’s 2nd Brigade, a military spokesman said Tuesday.

The soldiers were returning from a raid that took place late Sunday and early Monday when their truck “veered off an elevated highway” and fell about 30 feet, Earnhardt said.

Hey raven!!

That’ll do for starters, at least these weren’t selective deaths (and I don’t mean to appear unsympathetic towards the others).
I need to know more about this, such as was there an obstruction in the road? Did another vehicle appear out of nowhere and run the truck off the road? Were there any survivors, things like that.

You know why I’m asking, things are just running around in my head over this.

I think at the very least the remaining authors of that article should be out of operational status although I know how hard that would be for them with their buddies going out. I remember when I was getting ready to leave Nam the first time, they wouldn’t let me go out for my last two weeks there. Really pissed me off.

Anywaya, I hope you’re having a better week than me. This is just driving me nuts. I had 5 people who worked under me at one time die in the Trade Center, another very good friend who switched from PD to FD died when the first tower came down and his body was never recovered, and a good friend is the first person the NYPD ever gave a disability pension to for psych problems related to the job. Yesterday was not a good day.

I refuse to watch or listen to any more of these farcical hearings. I can only have my nose rubbed in shit so long before I start to retch.

In better news:
Rover begins descent into Martian crater
Opportunity survives the worst dust storm in its nearly four years on the Red Planet and does ‘the hokeypokey’ at the edge of the 260-foot-deep hole.

After surviving the harshest dust storm in its nearly four-year trek on Mars, the rover Opportunity got back to work Tuesday, dipping its toe into 260-foot-deep Victoria Crater.

Opportunity rolled its six wheels about 10 feet into the crater, then backed out in a maneuver its handlers at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in La Cañada Flintridge dubbed “the hokeypokey.”

As it backed out, Opportunity slipped on a sandy ripple at the crater’s edge and halted, said rover project manager John Callas. Engineers plan to adjust Opportunity’s settings to handle the slippage before going back into the crater to explore.

“We want to understand the conditions,” Callas said. “We want to make sure we can get back out.”

The crater exploration is risky. If the rover malfunctions, or the terrain is more difficult than expected, this could be Opportunity’s last trip. Rover managers decided to make the trip after determining the rewards outweighed the risks.

[snipped]

Richmond @ 10

Any news on specifics of their tragic deaths? Could they have been singled out for particularly dangerous missions because they embarrassed the president and the pro-war rabble?

Also any news updates on the minister whose leg was broken yesterday by capital police? (I am surprised how little attention this is getting even on the web – outside of FDL.

Did anyone figure out which number is the most appropriate number to call about the guy who had his leg broken by police?

anyone reading much about the third guy out of the seven who wrote the op-ed who was “allegedly” shot in the head?

Biodun @ 11

From the hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday afternoon:

WARNER: Is the country safer because of the war in Iraq?

PETRAEUS: Senator…

WARNER: General, is the country safer because of the war in Iraq?

PETRAEUS: I don’t know, Senator.

On the Today Show this morning, when Meredith Vieira asked Condi what she thought of the this exchange yesterday, she responded:

“The country will be safer when we’re successful in Iraq, which will bring more stability to the Middle East.”

Huh?

“The country WILL BE safer” future tense, eh?

That’s a flat out admission that the country is NOT SAFER because of the war, the surge, the leaking of Plame’s name, you add you own Bushco clusterfuck to this list.

Oh, wait don’t bother. Hugh already has the best list in the world

peanutbutter @ 115

Ann in AZ @ 110

zennurse at #70 and oddmommy at #97, loved all four of those. Hope a lot more come out by next year!

I spotted this one this morning on my way in:
MY POODLE IS SMARTER THAN MY PRESIDENT

Loved that one, too! But the one I originally sighted stayed with me for about 35 years. It was that memorable.

James @97 great list. Thanks for all the pointers

new thread, gang. ’struth

Greenwald on the Move On thing:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

james @ 122

raven @ 106

FORT BRAGG, N.C. (AP) — Seven soldiers killed in a vehicle accident in Iraq were members of the 82nd Airborne Division’s 2nd Brigade, a military spokesman said Tuesday.

The soldiers were returning from a raid that took place late Sunday and early Monday when their truck “veered off an elevated highway” and fell about 30 feet, Earnhardt said.

Hey raven!!

That’ll do for starters, at least these weren’t selective deaths (and I don’t mean to appear unsympathetic towards the others).
I need to know more about this, such as was there an obstruction in the road? Did another vehicle appear out of nowhere and run the truck off the road? Were there any survivors, things like that.

You know why I’m asking, things are just running around in my head over this.

I think at the very least the remaining authors of that article should be out of operational status although I know how hard that would be for them with their buddies going out. I remember when I was getting ready to leave Nam the first time, they wouldn’t let me go out for my last two weeks there. Really pissed me off.

Anywaya, I hope you’re having a better week than me. This is just driving me nuts. I had 5 people who worked under me at one time die in the Trade Center, another very good friend who switched from PD to FD died when the first tower came down and his body was never recovered, and a good friend is the first person the NYPD ever gave a disability pension to for psych problems related to the job. Yesterday was not a good day.

I refuse to watch or listen to any more of these farcical hearings. I can only have my nose rubbed in shit so long before I start to retch.

I didn’t post the whole piece. It sounded like they were on a bridge or overpass and went over the side. Having driven a deuce and a half (6 by for you jar heads) when I was 19 it doesn’t surprise me, we used to haul ass on all kinds of roads. I’m also pretty sure the trooper that was hit was wia on an op but if people want to see a pre-emptive conspiracy far be it from me to argue.

I know that this group believes that the system can work, that it does respond the people, that we have a democracy and a constitution which protects our rights… but

wake up.. this is pretty much an illusion. We live in a corporate quasi fascist country. Our congress respond to the lobbyists who used to be their staffers. We are voiceless.

We need some serious direct action. We are not getting results with out blogs, whining, faxes and calls. We are voiceless.

Money rules and politicians are bought and sold by corporations.

We have a military which will act like attack dogs and not question the legality of attacking sovereign nations.

We have police who trample our free speech rights in our own hall of congress.

We frogs being boiled alive.

Spring from the pot and act.

Watch… Iran will be bombed in a few months and it will be a false flag operation. Bang we’ll be in there in a flash. They’re ready for the call… plans are drawn up and studied.

These guys want all the oil. They want all the power. They want all the wealth.

mui. You still here?

Sorry. I didn’t run out on you. I got cut off, and the toobz were trying to tell me there was no FDL! Gr-r-r-r-r!

Apologies also, in re:
Yes! joem’s an utter waste!
No! he’s not yours. it’s j for j every day in every way.
Will Lamont run again? hope hope
Thanks for info @ website. ;->

I can’t get over how fundamentally amoral the overall picture of our presence in Iraq that Petraeus and Crocker painted was and is, and how almost none of the responses of “our” Senators or Representatives reflected that stark amorality that was repeatedly laid out in front of them in long-winded, repetitive slow-motion. [Have any of them ever heard of the Geneva Conventions…?]

The deaths of these two morally courageous NCOs punctuates and underlines the sickening amoral irresponsibility of those in power out of harm’s way – Petraeus didn’t even have the decency to give a passing nod of acknowledgement to their good faith efforts in speaking out about their experiences, when Chuck Hagel brought up their op-ed to him. But Petraeus sure knew where those soldiers were stationed – all that he bothered to mention about them in response to Hagel was their location in Baghdad (on one of the bases located at a “fault line” between Shi’ite and Sunni, as I recall).

In essence, Members of Congress and the country witnessed, first-hand, clear evidence that our military is basically singlehandedly running Iraq – politically, militarily, and otherwise, and far more importantly, running its dissolution on American (and Big Oil corporate-profit and Israeli Lobby) terms… The goal now appears to be to separate the 18 provinces into separate fiefdoms (though admittedly such a state of affairs in Iraq never existed before), only very loosely connected to the “center” with bribes or threatened force.

No questions that I saw tried to understand what the ‘intransigent’ Iraqi “government” specifically means as used by P&C. It seemed clear to me that the “Council of Representatives” (the Iraqi parliament) is the “government” that so “frustrates” Crocker. Why? Because the members have a will and a mind of their own, unlike the bought-off, bribed, corrupt former exiles like al-Maliki and his Cabinet who run the Ministries awash in American taxpayer cash, and who P&C bring their “agendas” to and demand compliance from, at the barrel of an (implied) American gun.

And all this is somehow ‘okay’ with our Congress – the Iraqi Legislative Branch is overridden, ignored, and marginalized, just like our own, and everyone yawns or shrugs. Martial law in Iraq is an improvement over the daily existence of having Humvees and tanks and machine guns in the streets, I guess – and our Senators yawn and shrug, and figure those Iraqis deserve everything they’re getting… [Including having their capital city of Baghdad appallingly ‘transformed’ from 65% majority Sunni to 75% majority Shi’ite thanks to our occupation (per McClatchy’s Pentagon sources).]

There’re no American forces and no ‘al-Qaeda in Iraq’ in the southern four provinces of Iraq, and no ‘al-Qaeda in Iraq’ (and few patrolling Americans) in the Kurdish north. But “Iraq” as a whole is a haven for ‘al-Qaeda in Iraq,’ and will descend into (further) brutality if we leave Iraqis to their own devices?? What lies, what propaganda, what specious, contemptible inhumanity. If al-Qaeda was the problem, Baghdad and a few other provinces should’ve been our only focus long ago, and stated as such. As Senator Clinton pointedly said: “it takes a willing suspension of disbelief” to ignore the amorality underlying the sanitized cover story of what we are deliberately doing in and to Iraq.

It now seems apparent that the sprawling American infrastructure and force footprint in Iraq (including our own private roving Blackwater militias) is dismantling Iraq, one province at a time. And all this was just spelled out to a spell-bound Senate and House, and will soon be spelled out to a thus-far complicit United Nations Security Council – the Iraq “Council of Representatives” and the majority will of the horrifically-persecuted Iraqi people be ever, ever so damned.

PLovering @ 93

Peterr @ 47

One would think that the New York Times, having published the Op-ed in question, might be interested in the deaths of two of the authors. I tried searching for “Yance Gray” and “Omar Mora” and came up with nothing save the original op-ed.

Is anyone awake at the Times?

Over at the WaPo, similar searches turn up only Froomkin’s column from August on the op-ed.

Which will be first to breathlessly break the news to the Powers That Be in DC?

Is anyone awake at the Times?

The Times is awake all right. NYT stock just hit a new low. Ad revenues are for shit.

The times is probably preoccupied with the coming implosion of hedge funds.

And with promoting the bombing of Iran.

James at 122

at least these weren’t selective deaths

I hate to be so dark about this whole thing, but it’s not unheard-of for a committed thug to take out more than the main target, either for lack of caring, or deliberately to muddy the waters.

[totally unrelated, but example of same: the tyl*nol-killer - mainly aiming at one person, but deliberately allowing others to be hurt, simply to hide his trail]

*adjusts tin foil hat*

These deaths are suspicious. We need to know how this came down and what message it sends to others in the military who come to speak the truth about the war. Will they, too, meet accidents?

I suppose the GOP can’t kill them all, but if they stretch the war out long enough, they can damn sure try, can’t they?

Richmond @ 134

PLovering @ 93

Is anyone awake at the Times?

The Times is awake all right. NYT stock just hit a new low. Ad revenues are for shit.

The times is probably preoccupied with the coming implosion of hedge funds.

And with promoting the bombing of Iran.

Does it strike anyone other than me, that the “Times Select” idea is idiotic, and self-defeating for that august institution?!
How to turn away potential customers and go belly-up, in one easy lesson. dumbdumbdumb
- but that’s just me…

dejah @ 136

These deaths are suspicious. We need to know how this came down and what message it sends to others in the military who come to speak the truth about the war. Will they, too, meet accidents?

I suppose the GOP can’t kill them all, but if they stretch the war out long enough, they can damn sure try, can’t they?

I thot concern along those lines seemed to be strongly implied in Hagel’s forceful comments and questions on the subject – not that it was an intended consequence of staying in IQ, but that it was a logical conclusion one could make. To wit: staying kills more and more, for no good purpose. It’s an horrific, obscene, ludicrous way to [draw down an army]!

Here’s a photograph of Bushboy’s reaction to the latest Iraq casualties: http://wwwthepartyofthewidestance.blogspot.com/

Frank Probst @ 37

Chicago Todd @ 32

I looked at the NY Times website as well and nary a mention. Could not believe that as it has been out for a while. Perhaps it is not confirmed but they have seemed more than willing to print erroneous, unsubstantiated information in the past.

It seems like no one’s really clear on what actually happened. This has the potential to be a big story, and they need to get it right. I’m willing to wait for the definitive piece.

David Stout finally submitted a report online at 3:18PM EST. He writes as a “he said she said” reporter so not much there — which is typical anymore with the NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09…..ref=slogin

One bit of good news buried in this story is Dear Leader’s address to the beaten-down nation on Thurs. night. The D.C. elite may still love him, but he’s about as popular with the ‘Murikan people as bubonic plague. When he speaks out in favor of longer war, more believers will defect (assuming more than 0.5% of the population can stomach the sight of his grimacing mug)

Allegedly the polling has shown some of the diehards have returned to the ReThugs since they dropped the “Lets make the brown skinned Mex’cans indentured servants” initiative in response to their hard-core racist base. But expect Chimpy to drive an equal number out soon if he assumes too high a profile.

Prairie Sunshine @ 17

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 9

I don’t get it. Don’t people like Norm Coleman and Susan Collins see the writing on the wall? Are they that f-cking dumb that they’d risk their Senate career for the Decider? … Republican weasels in the Senate. …

… re-election. K-Street sinecure. Bush has their balls in a vise saying screw with me and you won’t work in this Repervlican party again….

Isn’t it something how people demean Democrats for being weak, but here we have the entire Republican party held in a vise grip by Dubya. Can you say WEAK?