It’s “gimme more FUs day.” I’m going to try and liveblog as much of the Petraeus/Crocker Dog and Pony Show and WH-Written Talking Points as I can. Do try to restrain yourself on comments to be kind to the servers and your liveblogger. Thanks!
Today, I’m featuring this lovely photo (via CNN) of WH/GOP message man Ed Gillespie to give him some public credit for manufacturing both the Petraeus and Crocker public talking points and the GOP-caucus strategic coordination as well. Via Open Left:
As if this is not obvious already.
Another new arrival in the West Wing set up a rapid-response PR unit hard-wired into Petraeus’s shop. Ed Gillespie, the new presidential counselor, organized daily conference calls at 7:45 a.m. and again late in the afternoon between the White House, the Pentagon, the State Department, and the U.S. Embassy and military in Baghdad to map out ways of selling the surge.
From the start of the Bush plan, the White House communications office had been blitzing an e-mail list of as many as 5,000 journalists, lawmakers, lobbyists, conservative bloggers, military groups and others with talking points or rebuttals of criticism. Between Jan. 10 and last week, the office put out 94 such documents in various categories — “Myths/Facts” or “Setting the Record Straight” to take issue with negative news articles, and “In Case You Missed It” to distribute positive articles or speeches. (emphasis mine)
Dodge and phony show indeed. This is the WHIG strategy…again.
____________________
SEN. COLEMAN QUESTIONS: Begins with the Gillespie/GOP wurlitzer MoveOn.org talking point. [CHS notes: Does the man ever speak without inserting someone else's talking points into his mouth?] Coleman talking about his trip to Ramadi and talking with the mayor there who wants to build a resort area as a long-term vision while his buildings are riddled with bullets. Al qaeda…blah blah blah…scary. We don’t have any objective measures of progress. Do you have any? Americans want to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Gosh, your troop drawdown discussion is swell, but because troops are still going to get killed and my constituents don’t like that, what sorts of talking points can you give me to reassure them? [CHS notes: I'm paraphrasing here...but you get the point.] Crocker says we need to look at processes, not just numbers — benchmarks are potentially a misleading indicator, because he believes that the Iraqis could hit all the benchmarks and still not have any national reconciliation.
He does think that there is potential to see some progress in the months ahead. Is the central government able to increase its ability to support efforts for reconstruction and rebuilding and are provinces able to execute these plans to the benefit of the people who live in their areas? That presupposes that levels of violence go down and stay down even further. This has been an ethno-sectarian competition for power and resources. The question, ultimately, is whether under changing conditions that competition translates into a political competition as opposed to a street fight. Also, would look at the militias: is the central government, with our help where needed, able to begin taking apart the militias? Says there is some hint of a popular backlash against a single commander. Those are interlinked areas that Crocker will be watching moving forward. And there are subpoints: population displacements, they have slowed but haven’t stopped — and this needs to be reversed.
Petraeus says that he agrees with Coleman’s assessment of al qaeda Iraq — that they are off-balance, but still very dangerous and trying to re-ignite sectarian violence, with acts like bombing the Golden Dome mosque. Inter-sectarian religious intervention, standing together and calling for calm, prevented ignition of further problems in the recent attacks on the minarets there. They remain a very dangerous and adaptable foe that wants to retain sanctuary in Iraq. The stairstep reduction planning reflects how we would like this to play out — both in terms of reducing forces over time from protection, to helping, to handing off control altogether.
SEN. FEINGOLD QUESTIONS: Thanks witnesses. Thanks for your service and the conversations on strategy and tactics. It is simply tragic that the broader context of our conflict with terrorism outside Iraq has been altogether, and inappropriately, ignored in this hearing. And Iraq has been a substantial distraction — our attention and resources have been focused on Iraq, and al qaeda has been focused on building a stronghold in Pakistan, and reconstituting its hold on areas of Afghanistan, raising substantial funds, and recruiting. The Bush Administration has repeatedly called Iraq the central front in the war on terror — this is simply incorrect. AQI may give AQ some reach, but it is simply inaccurate to say that AQ isn’t operating. Sen. Hagel mentioned Syria and Iran — what about Africa? There were two bombs there last week that were virtually unnoticed here in the US.
Do you believe that the US is providing sufficient resources to deal with al qaeda outside Iraq — specifically Mahgreb? Crocker says that’s outside his portfolio. Feingold asks which is more important — the Pakistani AQ issue or Iraq? Crocker says while he was Amb. to Pakistan, the people needed to deal with that situation were not available because they were working on Iraq. Crocker dodges which prioritization is more important. Feingold goes to Petraeus — Petreaus says that he isn’t in a position to talk about resources committed elsewhere, the briefings that he gets on this issue focus more on how AQ central’s information affects their Iraq operations. Says that Iraq has been a focus, but that may be changing.
The allocation of resources questions need to be addressed. This is the myopia of Iraq. When will the overall level of American troop deaths start to decline in Iraq? Petraeus goes back to the initial question. Feingold says that this is the most critical hearing we have had, and it is focused solely on Iraq — not the broader context of overall strategy or lack thereof. Petraeus says that in August, they suffered a number of non-combat deaths because of helicopter accident. Feingold calls BS — the number of troop deaths in every single month this year is higher than the troop deaths that occurred in the same months last year. And Feingold says he is not getting adequate answers on this.
SEN. CORKER QUESTIONS: Again, starts with the Wurlitzer talking point. We tend to look at governing in Iraq as being less difficult here — and yet we have issues here that we haven’t been able to deal with for generations. Crocker says that he thinks we need to be very careful with the fact that we may change our posture, and the Iraqis know that – and they also know that they will be there forever. I am concerned with an approach that says we’re going to start pulling troops regardless of the consequences on the ground — that this would make them less willing to compromise and push them in the wrong direction, toward more sectarian fighting, not less. The Iraqis are aware that the patience of the American public is not limitless — and this has been a helpful prod to the Iraqi leadership this summer. Petraeus says he shares Crocker’s view. We have taken tactical steps — we can critically stop working with certain elements of the Iraqi forces, or elements, etc., because of investigations or other information (points to major crimes unit abusing detainees and the loss of American support as a result). When it comes to the level of national legislation, that is an awfully difficult question up front.
Working with leaders in Iraq to try and achieve some reconciliation. But the idea of threatening to withdraw may actually harden something that we are trying to soften. Corker asks about the troop drawdown being predicated on the Iraqi military stepping up. Petraeus says there is progress, but it happens unevenly in fits and starts. Talks about moving Anbar forces to adjecent provinces as events on the ground warranted it — as an example of day to day tactical adjustments.
SEN. BOXER QUESTIONS: Thanks for your service. Says she gets letter after letter on how long we’ll be in Iraq. Boxer says that this war is the biggest foreign policy mistake ever — it took our eye off the al qaeda ball, our national guard is substantially strained with manpower and equipment shortfalls, we have lost far too much. We have also lost the support of the world — we had that support after 9/11 and we squandered it. Boxer goes back to an early meeting with Petraeus in Iraq (in 2005?) — you told me that we were going to have some great Iraqi forces ready to go shortly, puts Petraeus documentation into the record from then. That’s what the Brits have done — they have redeployed to the perimeter. Boxer says that she went to London last week and had foreign policy meetings — 90 percent of the violence for Brits was coming because their presence was inciting violence because they were seen as occupiers by the Iraqis. You said in 2003 that we wanted to be seen as liberators, not occupiers — that there is a shelf life on the welcome for us. References the op-ed in the NYTimes that Hagel highlighted — that we are considered an army of occupation.
I think we need to look at reality. The independent general’s report says that you are cherry-picking your numbers. Gen. Casey says that the surge says that this is only a temporary tactical effect. The Iraqis are saying that their children’s lives will not be better than their own — that the surge is making matters worse. The President is the commander in chief — he said mission accomplished, and thousands of our own died. Since he said in Australia that we are kicking ass in Iraq, in six days since then we lost 28 soldiers. Who wants to keep this course? Not the Iraqis, not the American people, not the majority of the members of Congress…cites stats on public opinion here and in Iraq. We are in the middle of a civil war, in the middle of the mother of all mistakes.
Son’t do what you did in 2004, when you painted a rosy scenario in an op-ed, or what you did in 2005 with us and your rosy forecast…consider that you might be wrong. Don Rumsfeld said that this war would last no longer than 6 months. How long is this going to take — it has drained resources and lives, how much more?
SEN. SUNUNU QUESTIONS: Thanks both witnesses for their decades of service. A simple concern is the specific institutions, resources, etc., that will be required if progress at the local level is going to be sustained once withdrawals are completed? Crocker says that ensuring that local developments relate to the center in ways that local folks agree are beneficial to larger interests. Insuring that there is an appropriate connection between central initiatives and the local government actions. We have moved from major infrastructure projects to a focus on capacity building, and we have additional people coming out to assist that effort at the federal level. [CHS notes: Sununu looking at him with that "stop the diplomatic speak" kind of look.] All the reconstruction teams are embedded with military units, and we have continued that to the local level — and we now have quick response funds to supplement construction funds, and we are trying to complement and not compete with local initiatives. Provincial governance is new in Iraq. It did not exist in any meaningful way under Saddam, and didn’t really exist prior to that either. Sununu: With regard to your testimony, you mentioned $10 billion in potential expenditures, what confidence level do you have that this money is going to be used effectively for good projects? Crocker says that there are a number of mechanisms and measure that the Iraqis have in place to monitor waste, fraud and mismangement. Sununu asks if they really work. Crocker says “to a degree.” Perhaps the most effective check on this is the healthy watchfulness between the center and the provinces. [CHS notes: Oh, look, balance of powers and internal checks, balances and accountability. Remember when we used to respect that, too?]
What factors are you going to look at for mid-March and how might they be different from the ones you talk about today? Petraeus says that the ones he talked about today will still apply then. Petraeus highlights the need for political evaluation.
Am going to start a fresh thread…
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Feingold!
Christy!
Feingold asking questions with substance. No answer.
Tillman!
Kathleen @ 3
How can they answer a question with substance? Be reasonable, they can’t obfuscate or promote their agenda if they do that.
I LOVE Russ Feingold, he has heart and is very very strong, this is a Senator
could someone post the cnn live feed please, I can’t find it
Petraeus says U.S. casualties have been going down since June – Feingold smacks him down well and thoroughly – casualties are up every. single. month. compared with 2006.
Uh Oh Feingold with real numbers, that really stumped them.
Not to mention that 70,000 Iraqi people are leaving a month
Petraeus was completely overmatched against Feingold
Could Feingold please have the rest of the questioning time?
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs…..mp;Code=CS
Shorter Corker….blah, blah. blah annoying
perris @ 7
CSPAN 1
Much worse than that. this guy is so dishonest….he just loves Mr Bush
Nice opening from Corker – “I don’t really know what I’m doing or talking about, but I’m not gonna let that stop me”.
Maybe paraphrased slightly.
Does C-Span air in Syria? If I were a leader there I would put up big screens and air these hearings with some type of feedback for the Iraqi refugees to respond to what is going on here in the states.
I want to hear from the refugees!
Bob Corker… what a loser. But would Harold Ford have been any better? Republican vs Republican lite.
Gyms in Iraq are not nice. Troops take their own responsibility (huh?). Crocker works out… in Corker’s Gym?
perris @ 7
Do you mean C-Span?
Here’s link. You’ll need to click on player choice.
http://www.c-span.org/watch/in…..mp;Code=CS
jayt @ 16
Love it. Truer words were never spoken.
did you notice the pursed lips on Petreus when Feingold finished with him?? LOL, no soft balling here like yesterday. (ps, you can tell the Republican before they even show who they are, as they all have been told to discredit MoveOn ad.)
Did the senate INVITE Crockashit- or did he just invite himself ta echo Bush bullshit?
Just tuned in. Looks like more of yesterday. (i.e. hopeless).
OT: This is just on the wire: “House Democratic leaders have decided to postpone a vote on a criminal contempt resolution against White House chief of staff Joshua Bolten and former White House counsel Harriet Miers for several weeks, and possibly longer, according to top lawmakers and aides.”
So, we’ll be in Iraq for the next decade and I guess it really doesn’t matter who I would have voted for in 2008….
B-tray-us…what a man, he withdrew support to people who abused detainees. What, did CACI lose their funding?
Is anyone else having problems with the C-SPAN feed? I keep getting delays. I’d guess they’re getting hammered today.
Crocker is a nervous wreck.
BTW…have been watching the MSNBC all day coverage of 9/11 as it happened…Andrea Mitchell’s reporting of who might be to blame has been non-stop OBL…right from the get go. They showed pictures of OBL, and I guarantee you that the OBL in these videotapes we’ve been seeing in the media, is not the same person. None of the facial features match even remotely.
Boxer up
Did Betrayus just say that he was basing his pull-out plans on where we’d be in July 2008?
Surgin’ General
Blender @ 25
I was just going to ask that too… must be getting hammered.
Blender @ 25
Ya, that’s why I went to NPR’s Program Feed via iTunes.
theWalrus @ 23
Good God. There are no words.
I’ve chose CSpan 3 and am having no problems.
snowbird42 @ 15
who this guy, /s
Finally Boxer
servers are getting hammered… it’s lunch time in Corporate America on the east coast. Probably be better at 1:00PM or so.
petwrecker @ 34
Unfortunately TN Senator , who beat Harold ford
cspan 1 on TV is working fine…
What the senate needs to be debatin is not whether this that or the other strategy is workin well or not so well…they need to be discussin whether to get the fuck out of Dodge or not. Generals don’t decide such things..the only point in talkin to a general is if you’ve ALREADY decided ta stay an fight an ya wanna know the best way of goin about it..
Again- the wrong hearing at the wrong time.
Hello Barbara Boxer this is the only summer since the surge
snowbird42 @ 37
corker/crocker got it…
carmen @ 33
thanks, Carmen! C-3 is working better.
How come we never see footage of the refugee camps? You know, the humanitarian disaster that the US is responsible for.
Just wondering.
-GSD
Mornin’ all! Didn’t go to work today so I could watch the debacle and chat with all of you. Also, I’d like to announce:
Corker and Crocker: asses of the worst kind!
Go Boxer……I still haven’t forgiven her for supporting LIEberman, but she is good
Back to 12 and click to c-span no trouble
Helen @ 32
I truly think that many, if not a majority, of them didn’t even know about the concept of “inherent contempt” until they went home in August and their constituents educated them.
(in the spirit of eternal optimism) – maybe they’re looking into that – so that they don’t have to look at an extended legal battle?
carmen @ 33
CSpan 3 is definitely better…online that is.
Boxer brings up the poll of the Iraqis!
rwcole @ 39
Boxer: The president is the commander and chief, he makes the policy
Shorter Boxer, Bush is the commander in chief, you support his policy or you are FIRED…good on you Boxer
Boxer: I ask you to take off your rosy glasses.
If you can’t do your mission then you should resign.
rwcole @ 39
I partly agree with what you are saying. i think the senators are reframing the discussion during the most anticipated hearing this year.
The fact that GP and Crocker cannot answer these questions is entirely the point.
occupiers…
the other day i read a point some other blogger made at another site….
we are evaluating and the fate of Iraq…
how come there are no Iraqis here to voice their opinion…
i suggested that how about inviting some of those Iraqis refugees in Syria here to tell us how this debacle has affected their lives….
(in fact, i believe they are the lucky ones…)
Boxer is on!!!Wonderful thanks Barbara
“the mother of all mistakes” -Boxer
Boxer: living up to her name. A right to the jaw of B-tray-us. Go for the knockout!
“mother of all mistakes”
delivered beautifully!
Boxer isn’t even going to let them “answer” her questions. Ha!
GSD @ 43
Because most Americans do not really want to know, they are busy keeping their pedals to the metal getting to the malls. The MSM is happy to comply…no pictures of the deaths, of the fighting, of the millions of refugees that our invasion has caused. Happy to stay in the bubble.. and we wonder why people around the world are terrified of American people?
Boxer — Score!!!!!!!!
Bush is the Commander. It is his policy.
If you don’t agree with the policy, just leave your post.
Nobody wants us there. Not the sunnis, not the shia, not the Congress, not the people of our country.
Take off your rosey glasses.
Sununu…
I love how she started with “I represent 37 million people and you should see the letters I get” . She’s my congress critter and I send her emails weekly so she’s reading them :)
Biodun @ 62
that’s all you need to say, Biodun
Kathleen @ 60
No, I think they’re just terrified of Beloved Leader. Sociopaths have that effect on people.
Shorter Sununu, I am going to lose my seat anyway, so I will make my daddy happy and toe the ReTHUG line.
sununu: re-election be damned, i’m gonna brownnose the guy with the stars on his shoulders. see ya, johnnie!
Crocker: There are several elements to that excellent question (by Sununu)…
Hm. Let’s ponder those elements, shall we, faux prof.
Crocker hears an “excellent” question – from a Repub, natch, then launches into wandering the fields of sophistry…
Bush continues with his fantasy of “Ah just gives mah generals whatever the fuck they want an THEY make all the decisions- not some pointy headed pencil pushin politician in Washington”
“See- it ain’t ME- it’s the generals who are fuckin up this war and who won’t let us leave- go talk ta them”
I’m really disappointed that Boxer’s questions were not answered.
Tired of hearing Dems whine they don’t have the votes to bring the troops home.
The Repugs don’t have the votes to keep them there!
Time to flip that freaking frame.
The dems DON’T have the votes to end the war
Jeebus… didn’t Crocker get the Club for Growth memo? Government bad, private sector good. He needs to get with the Grover Program in Iraq and all will be well.
rwcole @ 73
Yep.
Biodun @ 75
Double yep.
rwcole @ 73
this isn’t true rwcole
I answer all the “yeps” with a nope
we don’t need to overcome a veto, the president has to approve a budget we submit
when he vetoes that budget we submit it again
we do not give him the money for his war and bing, no veto matters one bit we get what we elected our politicians to do
that “we don’t have the votes” is bullshit
Crocker is lost in the labyrinth of his rope of words…
Crocker’s task very clearly is to blather for as long as possible. He keeps talking about all these things that are happening except nothing is happening and nothing is changing.
Meanwhile whenever anyone asks Petraeus a direct question he immediately deflects it by saying he wants to go back to some previous point and tries to avoid getting back to the real question for as long as he can.
rwcole @ 73
I believe that if the Dems would invite a few refugee Iraqis to illustrate just how effective our campaign has been it would go a long way in telling the truth of what exactly is going on over there.
Jo Fish @ 76
Yep. Do we have consensus now?
carmen @ 33
Same here. For those that are having problems, I would ask 1) How old is your computer? 2) Do you have broadband. Other than that, maybe it’s a location problem?
Just to reiterate: I am having no problems with Cspan 3.
perris @ 77
I agree with this. If the Senate wanted to there are things that can be done. Takes courage.
We have one more vote also
kdh22 @ 81
bingo
perris- it’s true because the 1600 Crew will trot out a “dems hate the troops” meme and instantly several Bush Dogs will defect and vote with the republicans, because heaven forbid they actually make the case that the WH is fucking lying …again… to their constituents and actually vote for the troops by bringing them home and having long lives with plenty of grandkids, or whatever.
That damn Anbar Province AGAIN.
Boxer’s message almost hinted that the Military could end the war, by stopping their participation in executing Bush’s policy.
please please PLEASE someone bring up the fact that we have to bring “surge” troop levels down by next July because we DON’T HAVE ANY UNITS TO REPLACE THEM.
gah!
And here comes Petraeus with the AQI garbage again.
Oh hell noooooooooo…Nelson of FL.
Anbar, Anbar… Werent these the same Sunnis that were killing us before we armed them?
kdh22 @ 89
I know one of my senators….help!
Nelson: What is the chance of political reconciliation within the space of six to nine months?
Excellent question.
Sununu – so you’re going to look, (in March 2008), at whether the surge troops can be brought out by July, 2008?
(”not that there’s anything wrong with that, General”).
It’s hard not to paraphrase these idiots, because the real words out of their mouths make no sense.
kdh22 @ 89
He’s actually asking good questions…
rwcole @ 73
They would if they had a charismatic spokesperson to counter the Republics. They have none. Republics will correctly accuse them of doing nothing, thus giving the Republics a chance to rise again.
Biodun @ 92
Crocker says he can’t say but then wastes a minute or two anyway. I wish a Senator would just cut him off, say thank you, and ask the next question.
What happens in Anbar stays in Anbar… Just like Vegas I guess
jayt @ 47
Does anyone know why they are putting off inherent contempt charges?
Crocker: ‘precursor to reconciliation’
So, dipshit, that means that there has yet to be any reconciliation. Spin MFer Spin!
GSD @ 43
We only saw footage of refugees when neocons wanted to establish no-fly zones in 1991 with the ultimate aim of partition. Sorry, servers.
Biodun @ 94
Yeah I’m shocked
Balzar @ 97
Not if you’re Britney Spears…
Ask the crock why we need the biggest embassy in the world in Bagdad
Oh, to hell with this. Why doesn’t someone just ask Petraeus how long he envisions needing 130,000 to 160,000 troops in order to achieve “victory”?
Five years? Ten?
Crocker: Poliitcal trigonometry…
I had this guy down pat from the get-go.
Gabble, gabble doesnt mean a thing.
Badwater @ 95
Wrong!! Wrong!!! Wrong!!!! The Dems could cut off funding for everything but a withdrawal. Look, there are way Democrats could end it if they really wanted to. They are just more scared of Mr. 28% and Faux Noise bashing them as being anti-troops, or other similiar nonsense.
Yes to Nelson’s short and sweet questions. Makes it more obvious when the answerer tries to sidestep it in order to obfuscate. A short, to-the-point question is more likely to be answered directly, if only because the witness doesn’t have enough time to formulate his obfuscation. I wish the rest of the Dems would catch on to this, and save the editorializing for another time.
Badwater @ 95
Again, I say: Don’t you wish there existed a “Democratic caucus strategic coordination” on basically anything?
jayt @ 104
Holy fuck, jayt you mean the senators actually doing their fucking jobs? Never happen. They’d never be on Press the Meat again.
perris @ 77
perris,
Please realize that the current occupier of the White House is perfectly capable of letting the troops on the ground run out of all supplies if he doesn’t get his way and would then blame the Dems for not doing what he wants.
If there’s no budget, he won’t find a way to get the necessary money and he would do it just to make the Dems look bad. We already know that he’s a psychological case study.
Badwater @ 95
Again, how about having the Iraqis tell us how this has affected their lives…
How come they weren’t invited to these proceedings?….
It’s their country, just how does this all look internationally, we trying to figure out what to do with another country and not invite even one of them here.
Does anyone know why they are putting off inherent contempt charges?
I don’t think they knew it was available, and are boning up on how to go about it.
So their stratagy is to try and micro manage each and every neighborhood in the entire country, brilliant
The guys are clowns… how do they look in the mirror in the morning?
I don’t like all the complaining around here. We ought to heed that illustrious patriot Patrick McHenry: Let the generals in the field dictate.
Will Caligula’s horse be questioning Petraeus?
Five-minute break coming up.
SanderO @ 103
Why hasn’t there been hearings on all the wastefulness going on in Iraq? What Iraq really is, is a plundering of the US Treasury by the Republicans and their friends.
LS @ 26
Oh, good, someone else noticed — I thought I was going crazy because the latest pictures didn’t look anything like OBL to me.
holy crap, becuase of their failure in Iran they are somehow making the case for attacking Iran…incredible
War is waged to make some people rich and others disappear.
jayt @ 104
That question has been asked–point blank–I think more than once!
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 98
Cowardice, spinelessness, or fecklessness. I’m willing to bet it is one of these.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 98
Per my Rep., Pete DeFazio, that since there are not the votes for impeachment, let alone conviciton, Congress is going to get accountablity through contempt proceedings and resort to the courts. I emailed back asking him how that was working for him. He’s an awfully good guy, it seems, but I don’t know if he has an answer to that. I suggested maybe Pelosi could resign as Speaker, and maybe she could get some clout back as Rahm and Stimpy show took center stage and proceed to take the party lower in public esteem.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 118
Senator Dorgan has been holding hearings. MSM just doesn’t consider ‘em “news.”
Cozumel @ 114
It’s the Rumsfeld way!!!
Hmmm… let’s see, on one side according to Crocker and B-tray-us we have AQI and on the other, the Eye-ranians. Which means that everything bad that has happend is directly attributable to the “not me” character from the “Family Circus”.
Does anyone recall the investigation to a misappropriation of something like 2 trillion dollars by the pentagon just before 911? That one got knocked right off the radar screen.
Ann in AZ @ 109
Yes! The lack of one keeps the Republics in business for the benefit of the few.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 98
IMHO, leadership counted votes and came up short.
dakine01 @ 111
no, I don’t realise this
we give the funding to get them safely home…let him try it keep them there when he is supposed to bring them home, we leave the money on the table for whenever he wants to use it
you watch the military revolt against this commander in cheif if he tries it
sorry, that ploy is nothing but a ploy
the speaker says;
“we have funded the armed forces to replenish, we have funded their safe passage home and the president refuses to give our boys and girls the resources that are at his disposal”
you watch the call for impeachment immediately to follow..among everyone, including the republicans
so again, no, I don’t realise the point you pose
Cozumel @ 114
That works so well in the business world, let’s try it in a hostile place while people, both American and Iraqi, die by the hour. You’re right, they’re just BRILLIANT!
Steve-AR @ 130
the invertebrates!
LS @ 26
I have been thinking the same thing. I bet he is one of “our guys” – i.e. a puppet, put up to it by one of our black ops. They didn’t even bother to color his hair!?
GOoPer venn diagrams?
war, poverty, environmental degradation, war, poverty, environmental degradation
perris @ 120
This is what we are going to witness these upcoming months how the “cakewalk” crazies are going to use this report to bomb Iran.
If I were Iran I’d be nervous as hell watching what we did in Iraq and Israel did in Lebanon.
Call your reps no war with Iran.
Israel and the U.S. should agree in front of the International community that they will not pre-emptively attack them. That would back Iran down, they need assurances that we will not continue to act unilaterally (or with a few coaltion soldiers) as we have been doing
brendan @ 116
I believe Caligula’s horse would be if Petraeus was leading him over a cliff….
petwrecker @ 135
bumper sticker?
Richmond @ 134
those d*mn budget cuts
jc inOR @ 124
They didn’t have the votes to start with during the pre-impeachment investigation of Richard Nixon, but 4 months later Nixon was gone. The “we don’t have the votes” argument is a sham, a lame, whiny excuse to do nothing.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 107
They also could refuse to fund anything but the troops (i.e. all the independent and Halliburton folks).
I’d like someone to ask P if he believes that Saddam H. was involved in 9/11.
I’d like someone to tell P. that the neocons created this war, broke this war and now own this war. And it if THEIR failure, not the Iraqi people’s.
I’d like someone to tell P. that there’s no way to predict what would happen if we pull out.
Brisingamen @ 119
agreed.
Kathleen @ 136
I heard petraeus actually have the nerve to say;
“if we leave Iraq it will begin to look like Iran”
and nobody called him on that?
they are ceding his point, he is making believe Iran is a danger to us by virtue of his testimony and nobody is calling anyone on this
I’m with perris – just keep sending a bill the D’s like – if it’s vetoed – turn around and send it back.
One minor difference – I’m a fan of reverse-negotiating – i.e., when the prez vetoes the first one, the next one comes back at him with some provisions that are even more painful.
Repeat and escalate as necessary.
We’re back…
Biodun @ 94
He’s my senator, too, and while I don’t like some of his votes (like against habeas corpus) he’s a lot better than Martinez.
kdh22 @ 138
not yet!
Richmond @ 141
Unfortunately, there are too many of the Congresspeople (read: died-in-the-wool politicians) whom depend on the approp earmarks to get re-elected.
Not saying I approve or condone the process, but the fact remains.
Murkowski on…
Where’s ET? BigMitch?
theWalrus @ 141
Sure there is, Beloved Leader does talk directly to “a higha Faddah”, and that gives him the ability to see everything but next weeks Powerball numbers.
jayt @ 145
Exactly. No bill, no money. Keep offering the bill, and let Bush be the obstructer.
Stopping by to listen to my Senator blather. Go, Lisa! You have guts. Not…
This is even worse than yesterday, even worse than the Tillman hearing.
OT..Sen. Larry Craig Hearing Set for Sept. 26
link
Murkowski: Let’s talk about the future. Any good real estate opportunities in Iraq?
Ed*ard Teller @ 153
My condolences to ET and BigMitch.
That picture looks like he should be hanging under “Employee of the Month” in a small town insurance office.
“holy crap, becuase of their failure in Iran they are somehow making the case for attacking Iran…incredible”
This has been the neocons plan from the very beginning: destabilize the entire middle east. That’s all Iraq is about. They are determined to do that within the next 16 months.
Ed*ard Teller @ 153
I listened to mine make a fool of himself earlier…Norm Coleman.
LS @ 152
yup…and each time he sends it back we need a press conferance saying the president refuses to fund the troops and we need someone who will
get the dialogue started that he is abusing our armed forces
Brisingamen @ 119
Emmanuel Goldstein anyone?
SanderO @ 128
linky?
kdh22 @ 149
Without presenting a coherent message by a single voice, messages are lost and the plethora of spokespeople creates chaos which the Republics can exploit. Look at how Newt shaped things for the Republic takeover.
Jo Fish @ 65
And an American public who could give a rats ass about Iraqi lives. Come on I have witnessed people with crosses around their necks say things like “lets go nuke them all” etc etc. There are plenty of reasons to fear many Americans who don’t question, don’t march, e-mail, lobby or even think about what is going on for the Iraqi people. Plenty of reasons to fear the complacency of many Americans.
perris @ 160
it could work out so nicely for us, what are the Dems afraid of?
If I hear “ethno-sectarian” again, I’m a-gonna puke. New Buzzword/acronym: ethno-sectarian al-qaeda in Iraq or ESAQI.
Kathleen: hear! hear!
Let’s remember that Petraeus once dated Judith Miller….
Hugh @ 140
Ya know, I keep telling me that, but these Repubs feets is set in concrete with a whole bunch of Dems that are just itching for voting for the next Reichstag resolution. I don’t think we can count on them doing anything. Someone has got to tell grampa Harry to go take a nap, then start leaking the dirt and hitting the airwaves. Per my man, Pete, again, though, you got to recognize Congress is complicit in the war. They voted for the Use of Force resolution NOT because they believed the intelligence, but because they WANTED a war. Its that tawdry. How ya going to get a fair hearing there?
Perris…NEXT STOP IRAN if Americans do not get off their complacent asses and get out on the streets, e-mail, make phone calls, lobby in the tens of millions.
Oh wait a minute thats what we did before the invasion.
Still worth the try
new thread
Biodun @ 168
Really? He was a Warrant Officer? lol… ;)
new thread…
Jo Fish @ 172
He couldn’t say or else
he warrant an officer and a gentleman.
Would you buy a used war from this man?
LS @ 26
Somebody ought to do a screen grab and put them side-by-side on a website where the world can do an easy comparison. Oughta be good for a laugh.
Besides, the intelligence community hasn’t yet said they’ve verified the identity (or tape authenticity, if you will). Why bother looking at something that hasn’t been verified yet?
perris @ 77
After the last couple of days it appears Congressional Dems are considering just that. I suppose they’ll do surveys, polls and check with focus groups and their therapists and then we’ll find out whether they are gonna do it. Should take a few days of kvetching and a few days of tea leaf reading or chicken bone reading (if you’re one of those kind).