It’s “gimme more FUs day.” I’m going to try and liveblog as much of the Petraeus/Crocker Dog and Pony Show and WH-Written Talking Points as I can. Do try to restrain yourself on comments to be kind to the servers and your liveblogger. Thanks!
Today, I’m featuring this lovely photo of WH/GOP message man Ed Gillespie to give him some public credit for manufacturing both the Petraeus and Crocker public talking points and the GOP-caucus strategic coordination as well. Via Open Left:
As if this is not obvious already.
Another new arrival in the West Wing set up a rapid-response PR unit hard-wired into Petraeus’s shop. Ed Gillespie, the new presidential counselor, organized daily conference calls at 7:45 a.m. and again late in the afternoon between the White House, the Pentagon, the State Department, and the U.S. Embassy and military in Baghdad to map out ways of selling the surge.
From the start of the Bush plan, the White House communications office had been blitzing an e-mail list of as many as 5,000 journalists, lawmakers, lobbyists, conservative bloggers, military groups and others with talking points or rebuttals of criticism. Between Jan. 10 and last week, the office put out 94 such documents in various categories — “Myths/Facts” or “Setting the Record Straight” to take issue with negative news articles, and “In Case You Missed It” to distribute positive articles or speeches. (emphasis mine)
Dodge and phony show indeed. This is the WHIG strategy…again.
____________________
SEN. LUGAR QUESTIONS: Starts with giving regrest from Sen. Voinavich — attending Rep. Gillmore’s funeral today in Ohio. Will submit questions to witnesses following his return. In current Newsweek magazine, there is an article on the current officers that Petraeus has gathered around him — possible strategy on finding pockets of near stability and beefing up local leadership there. This strategy has won out over the pursuing a strategy of every insurgent everywhere. David Brooks argues that this is making some headway, and even if the central government is unable to reconcile, but locals are doing better with this and making some progress. As many as 35,000 Sunni families have fled Baghdad this year — ethnic cleansing questions and question about walls being built so that sectarian violence isn’t done as easily. Makes point that President made a trip to Anbar, not Baghdad, as a sort of signal victory for local government and not central nationalism.
Asks Crocker to assess the fact that local factions are doing the work of governance. e.g. Kurds negotiating on their own with Hunt Oil for distribution agreement. A so-called soft-partition — not the three part but multiple part potentially governance. What is going on with the diplomatic initiatives, some transparency on what is occurring, with at least a minimal number of American troops there to be a general referee on the process and to keep the peace. Crocker says that he agrees completely that we have to retain an open mind with an absence of preconceptions on what Iraq should be and a readiness to respond on the ground to whatever Iraq could be. Iraq in the future will not resemble Iraq of 2003 — and may be very different from what it is today. There is decentralization of government — the role of provincial leaders and local governors, while not completely established, is evolving into a more substantial group of leaders. And there is a much more robust debate about this — we are starting to see this among Sunnis, which he sees as a positive sign.
We need to be there to have a more intensive, more positive, more regulated engagement betwen Iraq and its neighbors. It would be good, for example, if Iraq’s neighbors would have a more robust, active role in economic development in Anbar, for example, to support positive developments there. Promote regional dialogue, all with the permission of the Iraqi government and with their cooperation — regionally, bilaterally, and internationally with the UN mission in Iraq.
SEN. DODD QUESTIONS: Longer statement will be placed in the record. While we debate about policy questions, there is no debate about the admiration for the level of courage shown by the men and women who serve under a very, very difficult set of circumstances. Looking at violence/surge chart — looks like there was a reduction of violence before the initial ramp up in troops? Petraeus says that it did begin to reduce earlier than the troop deployment — he argues that it came with the announcement of the escalation. Sen. Dodd outlines his conversation with an Iraqi vet who lost an eye in Iraq (at Walter Reed for treatment) — serviceman detailed his experience with the “whack-a-mole” effect (my words) where we clear out an area and within “an hour and a half” the insurgents are right back in the area. Details all sorts of porblems, infighting, and other issues that Petraeus glossed over in his statement, as did Crocker.
All of the effort that has been made through the years, well before the surge, we have been begging the leadership to get their act together — 4 1/2 years later, you are still arguing that they need more time to produce results. What makes you think that this time is when they do so, based on such a failed history? Petraeus says he takes hope from the fact that they are actually sharing oil revenue, despite not having codified it into law. There has been some provision for amnesty, even though it isn’t written into law. Says this is a very significant step — candidly, this is what gives some encouragement — the national reconciliation has not taken place, but there are individual actions being take which give hope that they can accommodate one another. And it is supported by the Iraqi people.
Police are paid nationally, as you know they aren’t paid locally any longer but are now paid nationally, regardless of sectarian affiliation, which builds trust. Says that Biden correctly quoted his letter saying that they are not satisfied with progress thus far. Dodd asks whether the mistrust of our military with local Iraqi troops is common one — Petraeus says that there are 165,000 different views on that.
SEN. HAGEL QUESTIONS: We respect the military bravery of those serving, but it is our responsibility to question strategy and the results of the current actions — that is not unpatriotic, it is our duty as members of Congress and as Americans. References number of analyses which call current strategy into question, including one from Anthony Cordesman. Hagel says he asked the comptroller general for analysis of the Iraqi government — and was told that, at best, it’s dysfunctional. Chief of Staff of USArmy — about the tactical effects of surges, how minimal they are and, as Adm. Fallon has said, no amount of troops and time will make much difference unless there is political reconciliation in Iraq.
It seems to me logical that when you flood a zone with more troops, you are going to see some consequence, some result to that. I don’t think that is particularly news — where we’ve inserted more troops, costing more American lives, but what are the results? In four and a half years, we have not seen political progress. When you look at Southern Iraq, which I note that neither of you mentioned today, Gen. Jones says that we have probably lost the southern 4 provinces — that things are lawless, that the police force is infiltrated by militias — lawless gangs and marauders, and the British troops are holed up in the airport there in Basra. We are essentially paying tribute to these people to keep open the port — and two Iraqi governors of that province have been assasinated recently. Where is this going? Let’s not get into the underbrush on the 18 benchmarks — which, by the way, those benchmarks came from the Iraqi government and the Bush WH — they dictated these benchmarks, not the US Congress, and they haven’t been met.
We have never looked at Iraq in the larger strategic context — as in Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and the larger Middle East. We are losing American blood and treasure. Referencing the NYTimes op-ed from two weeks ago from NCOs who just finished long tour in Iraq. These corporals and sergeants have to do the dying and the fighting — you don’t get good answers from charts or WH talking points, you get it from these guys, and I know that you know this General.
One of your quotes, Crocker, “if we aren’t careful, Iraq may devolve into civil war.” Come on — they are already in a sectarian civil war. Are we going to continue to invest American blood and treasure — for what? To buy time? How much more time do we have to buy with American lives and treasure for no success? Crocker says there is an enormous amount of dysfunctionality in Iraq — that is beyond question. There is a lot of discontent about that, in and out of government — characterizes this as some qualified good news, because it isn’t being debated now on strict sectarian lines. Iraqis are talking about this dysfunctionality. Iraq, in Crocker’s judgment, almost completely unravelled in 2006 and early 2007. Under those conditions, it is impossible to proceed with governance that is effective — it has just been in the last few months that the security situation has improved enough to work on meaningful national reconciliation. Iraqis need space to work out these issues that are yet to be resolved. Just now starting to get the space to work on it.
When security does improve, as we saw in Anbar, political life starts up again. In Anbar, every little town has a city council and mayor, not something we saw several months ago, due to more stablity there. Provincia budgets are being funded in a realtively equitable way. At a minimum now, we have an environment that is beginning to develop that can allow this to happen.
Petraeus says that he’s trying to give as accurate a picture as he can provide, not to just give a good picture. Goes back to the prior statement on force reduction potential. The Marine expiditionary force, as Biden points out, was already scheduled to come out. Some discussion on the MU, and what their msision was and timeframe definitions.
The sectarian faultlines never stop until the area is stabilized — in a number of cases, the progress is not just because of the number of forces sitting on a problem, but it is also due to political change in the regional area. What happened in Anbar is politics — saying no more to al qaeda, an organization with which they were, at least tacitly in league, and rejecting that ideology and moving their own area forward. Same in Dialo (sp?). Same that our forces have achieved in clearing Bacquba, with the help of the tribes holding back violence with political choices being made that this is important. This is an important development that we obviously want to work very hard to tie it into the center sufficiently. Trying to find who are the irreconcilables and isolating them, and finding the ones who can work together and supporting them where we can.
SEN. KERRY QUESTIONS: Thanks witnesses for being here, and thanking troops and diplomatic service for their sacrifices on our behalf. This is different and significant from Vietnam after the testimony — almost half the names inscribed on the Vietnam memorial were inscribed after that speech. Our troops are owed a policy that is worthy of their sacrifice, and our country is owed a policy that meets our needs. What I hear is that we are passing by the sort of strategic larger issues here, and focusing on statistics that have only snapshot meaning. For all those statistics, they cannot make the Iraqis make the decisions that they have to make. Is it acceptable that American troops lose their lives while Iraqi politicians delay making necessary decisions? Is it acceptable that the southern part of Iraq is left to militias and Iranian outside influence and, if so, why the different standards for the rest of the country? Third, with regard to the benchmarks — those were demanded by the Iraqis and the Bush Administration — why shouldn’t they be held to their own standards? Isn’t it simply moving goalposts to say we should not look at the benchmark but instead look at a lower standard and hope for some progress somewhere?
You point to Anbar province. How can that be considered a national reconciliation question — the sheiks were tired of their daughters being raped and their sons being beheaded by al qaeda, and they have made an accommodation with the US, not the national government. One of the reasons that the violence in Baghdad is down, there has been an enormous shift in population — middle class Sunnis and Shi’ias who could get out have gone, we have had an enormous outflux of refugees. What is the leverage, if we are saying that we are going to stay indefinitely, what is the leverage to force political reconciliation?
Crocker says that the big issue is political reconciliation. But we have to acknowledge the need for security conditions existing before political progress can occur. The country almost came across completely in 2006. Kerry notes, with 130,000 troops there. Crocker says it is making a difference, but it is going to take time. Everyone is not prepared to sit down and make historic compromises — that is going to take time and effort. Crocker says that he does agree with Lugar on benchmarks, they are important and they are Iraqi. [CHS notes: clearly minimizing the Bush WH responsibility on putting these together. Thanks, Ed!] It is a set of circumstances that have made political reconciliation either difficult or, at times, outright impossible. The time and the space to do this has really just started over this summer. In terms of Anbar, not to over-emphasize it, but there are some things of broader significance: it isn’t just the Anbaris. What happens there, we have tried to link it to the center and to the province. That’s why the Anbaris who have come on as police forces are important — the central government has them on board to work on behalf of the central government security and the province.
Can that be replicated? No, not in a cookie-cutter fashion. But we are seeing some of the same phenomenon in other areas. That is the stage for a reconciliation process that may mean something and we need to encourage that. Petraeus says he won’t repeat what Crocker said. Even in Baghdad neighborhoods where al qaeda had strongholds, there have been some turnarounds — the key has been tying this into the national government, and not fixed-site security forces that we had hired them in the interim. Kerry interrupts to say the question has never been al qaeda, because they have all known that they had overstayed their welcome for some time — the question is political reconciliation that Petraeus is dodging and Kerry asks for an answer. Biden chimes in that the Anbar police are there because they cut a deal with them to get local police there rather than national police — that we are paying them to get local police. Petraeus says that they stopped raising their hands to become police two years ago with the pushback from al qaeda against them. Uses Ramadi as an example — couldn’t be cleared by troops alone — having locals involved has made it work, and is keeping it clear after we withdrew somewhat. Had to happen this way.
Petraeus says that two of the southern provinces are doing fine, including Messana (sp?) province which had an assassination of its governor recently. In Dekar province, we have some Aussies and Americans, and they are doing well — this comes down to leadership, and a particular colonel leader there has done very well. The tribes get together and negotiate a solution. They are not necessarily tranferrable to mixed areas. The Marsh Arabs in that area have never been controlled by an Iraqi government — they are going to do what they are going to do — they will come to their Iraqi solutions. In Basra province, the British did a good hand-off to a good force that was trained and equipped — the Brits have consolidated their control at an airport base of operations, and we’ll discuss when I get back on how to make certain we are all on the same page. No question that there is some competition between the various factions, and the violence level has flat out plummetted. For the Shi’ia south, that is probably okay — these are Iraqi solutions for Iraqi problems, but it doesn’t transfer to mixed populations.
Am going to start a fresh thread…
Related posts:
- Pete Hoekstra: US Shouldn’t Close Guantanamo — It’s a “Great Place”
- Doing it Right in Afghanistan: You and Whose Army?
- In Advance of London Conference, McChrystal Calls for Renewed Commitment to Strategy He Admits Has Failed
- Iraq Continues to Prove Their War Was Never About Us… Well, Mostly
- Back in Iraq – Ethnic Cleansing of Christians and More Civilians Killed



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Christy!
BADA BING!
Tres
sorry but that “smile” really IS awful – sorta like a dawg’s got hold of his -um- best suit pants.
can’t we have the pony again?
DizzyEd Gillespie…About-to-retire Chuck Hagel…
Petraeus – we have “some reasons for hope”
“We did *not* arm the Sunni’s”
Any idea that Petraeus is a good man in a difficult situation is, to me, fading fast to seeing him as a truly evil f*cking war-pimp.
The Cordesman report, for bookmarks:
http://www.csis.org/media/csis…..tience.pdf
Damn, he’s good.
Hagel – I’ve been told that Southern Iraq, which I notice that neither of you mentioned, is *lost*. No police force, no army presence, in control of marauding miltias.
Hagel is sounding quite pissed off. These benchmarks aren’t coming from Congress – they’re from the Iraqi government and this Administration.
A couple of questions I would like asked:
Has the “surge” been worth 700 American dead?
Is the extension of the “surge” you want worth the deaths of 700 more?
The fundamental reason for the “surge” was to achieve a political settlement. The political situation in Iraq has deteriorated over the course of the “surge”. The “surge” as you yourself defined it has failed. How can you say anything different?
You have given overly optimistic reports in Iraq for years. Why should we believe you are not doing so again?
WTF is Patreus writing writing writing on his pad, he’s not even paying any attention to what Hagel is saying
Is that true that southern Iraq is totally lost
Hagel’s pissed…
Hagel talking like a liberated man after he’s decided to resign – he’s breathing fire.
Hagel: We’ve got too many disconnects here, General.
Hagel – he was in Bagdad and was out talking with “the guys in the jeep. The corporals and the sergeants. the guys who have to do the fighting and the dying.” (loose quote)
Petraeus we have “some reasons for hope”
Yesterday he said things are “improving” in Iraq.
I just do not understand why 70,ooo Iraqi people are leaving every month.
Katie Couric needs to go visit the millions of Iraqi refugees and do her show.
Maybe this is an obvious question, but why doesn’t someone ask B-tray-us about the methodology and rationale for “counting” i.e. shot in back of head—> insurgent; shot in front of head —>mugged. It would be interesting to hear his response to this obvious book-cooking.
Boy, we’re gonna miss Hagel when he’s gone! I can see why Repugs want to get rid of him, though. Wow!
Hagel: The president’s said more time…more time for what?
Biodun @ 6
Hagel was the Republicans best bet to draw some votes from the Democrats. Hagel cuts through a great deal of BS when it comes to this war.
“Improving in Iraq” is code for “one day closer to dumping this mess on the next President/Administration”.
Hagel is hot…let’s see if the MSM chase him for tonights shows…doubt it, they would rather have a DINO hawk
Jo Fish @ 19
Maybe this is an obvious question, but why doesn’t someone ask B-tray-us about the methodology and rationale for “counting” i.e. shot in back of head—> insurgent; shot in front of head —>mugged. It would be interesting to hear his response to this obvious book-cooking.
I’m betting someone will. The general and Crocker aren’t in front of the B-team today.
Hagel did better than nearly every single Democrat in the House hearing yesterday.
Every time I start to appreciate Hagel for his war stance (oops, we can’t use that word any more without a snark alert) I have to go back an look at his whole voting record to keep a real perspective.
But, by golly, he sure sounds good today.
Notice how Biden and Dodd were transfixed on Hagel…
jayt @ 15
He has been breathing fire for quite some time, long before he decided not to run. He has even brought up the Israeli Palestinian issue on National T.V. (MTP) and said we need to deal with this issue in a more fair and balanced way.
I have seen him call Lieberman out several times on National News.
Again, stop using Anbar as an example. Its unique situation and conditions cannot be duplicated elsewhere.
Crocker down to trying “moderately encouraging”.
I’m glad I got so much done yesterday – this is the one I wanted to see.
“distributing revenues” is working?
DUH!
Bribes, by any other name,still stink…
Crocker’s expression is of one getting bludgeoned. And he is being bludgeoned by Hagel. Nice to see someone asking some questions instead of the soafsoaping we got used to under rethug majority.
I have not read the whole of the Cordesman report intensely, but would recommend pages 23-25 for his overview opinion of the “case for Strategic patience”.
It lays out the challenges in one of the most concise and sensible ways I’ve seen.
Petraeus won’t get away with his triangulating today, there will be follw-ups.
Hegel, the German philosopher
Hagel, the repug senator
Jo Fish @ 19
Yesterday he seemed to indicate that the “shot in the back of the head” vs “shot in the front of the head” rumors were not true. That was not the way they count, etc. etc. etc. I doubt that would change today. I think it’s far more productive to ask the kind of questions that Hagel asked–What are we supposed to do with the report of the seven NCOs from the NYT…disregard their opinion?
I wish some one would point out that violence and fatalities are starting to tick up again as the weather is cooling off in Iraq.
Biden catches petraeus – those troops (30,000) were coming out this spring anyway, right?
OT, but I thought some good news was needed today of all days.
The Seligman case is breaking out all over. Not only on the Muck, which has Conyer’s response to DOJ’s refusal.
Muck is worth a look, a commentator/commentor (sp?) who says that the journalist writing about it for Harper’s just predicted an indictment of Rove (on Canadian radio)
I’ll post that link next.
but here on the la cluelessissima herself, grey lady NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09…..an.html?hp
oooh… he said “al qaida” be afraid, be very afraid on 9/11.
Jo Fish @ 19
He was asked about this yesterday and he said he had never heard of it.
Crocker: I use the measure of the perception of Iraq’s leaders that the security situation has improved. Of course, he just said that Iraq’s government is totally dysfunctional.
Petraeus: My job is to be forthright, Lincoln-esque, straightshooting, hand of G*d honest, and modest. Did I mention modest?
This quote stuck out for me:
It seems to me that smaller, decentralized groups will be easier for the oil companies to bully. A strong, central government is always in a stronger negotiating position with the multinational corporations than weaker, decentralized factions.
Of course plan A is a strong central government completely in our pocket, but if that fails, it seems the neocons are pursuing plan B for corporate oligarchy.
Or did I just wake up on the cynical side of the bed this morning?
Remember to call your Reps and push for diplomacy with Iran…we know where the “cakewalk in Iraq” crazies have been headed for the last 4 years.
I have called my Reps and asked them to get back to more serious issues, like death, destruction and chaos in Iraq, the situation in Afghanistan, and folks with out health care.
Get off the Move On add.
Kathleen @ 18
Katie Couric knew what she wanted to find (and say) before she got there. For her -like Lieberman, Fleischer, Perle, Crystol, Thomas Friedman, Michael Gordon, David Brooks, Rahm Emmanuel etc. – it is about supporting Isr*el and family ties there by seeking to assure that the US will be a military presence in the M.E. for the foreseeable future.
update: http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004126.php
BlueStateRedHead @ 40
jayt @ 25
I’m betting someone will. The general and Crocker aren’t in front of the B-team today.
Someone asked Betrayus this yesterday, he said the news report was “totally untrue”.
thanks zennurse and ann in az. I did not catch the whole thing yesterday, and I guess I missed that. It’s interesting that since that story has been all over the MSM for the last few days, he had “never heard it”. Uh-huh. Has he been taking “reporting in the combat zone” from My-Lai Powell?
Kerry up..
The audacity of holding this hearing on 9/11 infuriates me.
DC Chris @ 48
The “shot in the front of the head” may or may not be literally true, but the larger point is that there is no way to distinguish between someone shot by an insurgent and someone shot by a criminal. Indeed the two are often the same.
Crocker actually seems respectful of Kerry, Petboy seems downright intimidated…
John Kerry is questioning him. I’d love to hear him ask B-tray-us “how do you ask a soldier/sailor/airman/Marine be the last man to die in Iraq for George Bush’s lie and failed policy?”
Does he have the balls?
Where is that middle east conference on the situation in Iraq that Zbigniew Brezinski brought up over 2 years ago and the Iraqi Study Group recommended. Why no discussion about this?
Why is the Bush administration stalling on this idea? When will our Reps (both Republican and Democrats) start pushing for this?
Here, Glennzilla thrashes Brit Hume for his congenial MCing of the Petraeus/Crocker briefing hour last evening.
Does anyone know how long they will go today? I know the Armed Services committe meets at 2, but when are these guys stopping? (trying to miss nothing and accomplish one thing today)
Hagel was excellent – kinda begs the question as to how these hearings would unfold if *none* of the Senators were still concerned about re-election…
He (Kerry) is dancing around it. Go John!
Jo Fish @ 54
He might.
Kerry: The Iraq government came up with the benchmarks. Why should they not be evaluated according to the measures they themselves chose?
Kerry is nailing it re the population leaving!
There can be no reconciliation. The sects need to be left to fight things out. Let history run its course.
Kerry could have been our President if hanky panky Rove had not meddled in the 2004 election.
Remember John Dean has told us that Rove, Feith, Wolfowiz and others can still be impeached so that they can never.. ever roll back into a future administration.
Anyone else getting tired of hearing AQI, AQI, AQI from Bush’s pet general? The reports that have come out recently said the AQI is only 2 to 5% (10% tops) of the insurgents. The efforts to connect 9-11 to Iraq with subliminals is disgusting.
Shorter Crocker…uh…uh…lie…uh…uh
Crocker: It’s going to take time.
What does “it” refer to? Doesn’t matter. Just plug it into any Crokcer answer. Also we have been in Iraq for 4 1/2 years. It already has taken time. Why should we give it more?
“…not to overemphasize Anbar…” ROTFLMAO!
I find the questions are a lot more interesting than the answers. The answers all sound like doublespeak bullshi*t
It seems to me that the Senators have learned to get around Petraeus’ filibustering, too. They get their questions out within their time and then give up the floor to Petraeus and Crocker for the answers. Good for them! To bad most of the Reps. didn’t figure this out, except for the one from California that I said had a stinger. I wish I knew her name. She had medium length dark hair, not much curl except at the ends.
Crocker: Is all over the place. More running out the clock.
Petraeus: I won’t repeat what the Ambassador just said. (I would like to see him try.)
O.K if political reconciliation is so important. Where is that middle east conference recommended by the Iraq Study Group.
When will our Reps start pushing for this? Why are they letting the Bush administration stall on this recommendation?
good piece from Gary Kamiya re the 9/11 timing.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2007/09/11/`911_lessons/
Jo Fish @ 54
Oh my god, that would be sweet. I would take back every mean thing I’ve ever said about John Kerry. I wonder if Gen. Patronus has a clever response all worked out for that?
Crocker and others are now seeing a “new Iraq” developing- not the one we wanted- it’s just a baby- but they think they love it..Babies have a way of losing their cuteness over time.. this could be a fuckin MONSTER they’re seeing develop—”local initiatives” mean no central control- this is may not be good in a country exeriencing a civil war.
Anbar Province. Anbar Province. Anbar Province. Proves nothing.
SufiLizard @ 44
To me, in this situation, decentralized government sounds like another name for no effective central government aka chaos, factionalism or war-lord-ism.
I don’t believe Petraeus had the gaul to bring up police academies, since the one we built was unfit for human habitation. How do we know that’s not the reason for the closure?
The ISG was, sadly, something pushed on Babee Bush by Daddy Bush and Jim Baker. For all the good it did it might as well have been written by Tammy Faye Baker with a picture of Alexander Hamilton in the room.
The chances of the ISG bearing fruit are about the same as Colin Powell testifying truthfully at the UN.
Matthews was ripping last night. Worth watching the whole program
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/
I would like to see some of the Iraqi leaders come before congress to testify.
How about a few million Iraqi refugees testify before congress on how things are getting better in Iraq.
rwcole @ 75
Just like Condi’s birth pangs argument!!!
Oh goodness, we now have “marsh Arabs”. Do we now get Al-Qaeda in the Swamps (AQiS)? Scaring waterfowl in Iraqi Swamps since 2007.
Ann in AZ: Funny you should bring up Gaul when Petraeus is playing Caesar.
Norm Coleman the weasel…a disgrace to the state of MN.
heeeeeeeeeeere’s Norm! again with the moveon.org crap.
Norm! Coleman licking balls since oh, whenever…
Shorter Coleman…move-on is after me and I am going to lose my seat…..GOOD RIDDANCE loser
Coleman needs another adjustment by Halloway.
WTF is Coleman getting at?
Oh for God’s sake, shut up Coleman …
Ann in AZ @ 70
Sanchez, she was not taking one word of bull.
Coleman is an a**.
If one believes that the “decentralization” of power is just the ticket for Iraq- then our getting out of there will accelerate it. If we’re not around propping up the central govt- things will decentralize at warp speed- and that’s GOOD- right?
I can’t listen to Norm Coleman what a ass
is Code Pink around today?
Repug points -
1. Reprimand the Moveon.org ad and moveon in general
2. give support and adolations to General Pet
3. talk about travel to/near Iraq with or without General Pet
Just like yesterday! Talk about group mind control, boy-howdy!
Shorter Coleman: Throw me a bone here.
Coleman: “there will be ups and downs in Iraq…” hmmm, so there will be sex in Iraq. Interesting. Well hey Norm, how about a little more truth and a little less of the old in-out? C’mon, Move on now Norm.
Coleman: For you my question would be…
Correx: For you my question is…
Kathleen @ 64
Kerry didn’t even fight back against the Swift Boat asshats. Kerry’s campaign made a lot of mistakes. As much as Rove and Co. tried to meddle, it is obvious that they were more lucky than good.
I can’t stand to hear Coleman’s voice.
I would like to ask him how when he was breathing fire over the oil for food issue he missed the Texan businessmen involved.
Get high and watch George Galloway tell the truth and knock Senator Coleman off his high horse
http://www.informationclearing…..le8869.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
oddmommy @ 94
No. They all got arrested yesterday…*g*
Coleman – “was talking to an Iraqi mayor who was rebuilding his city – and talking about making it a resort!!”
geez, Norm, that’s swell – and well worth American life and limb, right? Maybe the families of U.S. casualties could get a small discount at the new resort?
Does anyone know if Norm! actually had a question in there somewhere?
Hugh @ 96
He must know that he’s got an ass kicking coming next year.
Kathleen @ 101
Love that video. If anyone hasn’t watched it, don’t miss it. I think Coleman may have wet his pants.
Baby, right. Remember Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby?
Kerry didn’t win because the public was still scared shitless about 9/11 and didn’t know yet just how fucked up Bush’s war was. Today he’d win goin away- a landslide. It’s all about timing.
Fern @ 77
Yeah, that’s what I was trying to say, but you did it better. And I was also trying to illustrate that the corporate oligarchs find it fairly easy to negotiate with local warlords who often don’t mind exploiting the people for their own gain.
An acceptable Plan B, from a neocon standpoint. Much preferable to a strong government that actually represents the interests of the people.
Wait a minute—how much for a nice room at the “resort”? What a nice vacation- better than the moon!
procedural note: The D’s are doing a good job today of making their *questions* last five minutes – and then asking for the answers to be allowed without counting against their time.
Norm, otoh, asked a relatively short question, and the answers should eat up all of his time.
Ann in AZ @ 70
I think that Rep. that had a stinger was Susan Davis. Anybody know her?
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 99
yes Kerry’s handlers made big mistakes. Just because Rove and the other criminals are better at lying and cheating…does that make them better? Not in my book
Kerry would have been a great President
Crocker: the difference between political confrontation and a street fight…
What? A street fight?
The neo-cons & Halliburton set must have been really pissed when Clinton won the election. Threw their plans off by 8 years.
Just got off the phone with Coleman’s office. Thanked them for reminding me to contribute to MoveOn. Was hung up on when I continued about contributing to Al Franken.
Petraeus is trying to answer Norm’s nonquestion.
Jo Fish @ 54
House member did yesterday, I believe. perhaps Wexler? if memory serves.
The military industrial complex is breathin hard waitin for a troop draw down- so that the govt. is force to rent THEIR troops at 10 times the price….
Turns out there’s a lot a money ta be made in Mess a potamia
ccmask @ 115
Didn’t you see their temper tantrum? I think it was called “impeachment” ;)
Kerry mentioned the radical displacement of Shia and Sunni across Iraq, as populations are polarized/eradicated by sectarian conflict – has anyone brought up the intra-sectarian conflict that is on the rise (shia against shia, sunni against sunni), as different militias attempt to consolidate power?
And is anyone keeping count of how many times Petraeus cites AQI? Jesus.
carmen @ 116
You go, girl.
Again: Al-Qaeda in Iraq is purely a production of US armed forces in Iraq.
Crocker continues to run out the clock. The question was: Is there any real way to measure improvement?
Crocker: blah, one but this presupposes security, blah, spend budgets, blah, militias. Well those are 3 things I would be looking at.
And gosh d*arn don’t they all take time, lots and lots of time.
“Why if we was ta get outta here- these fuckers’d be killin each other”
Feingold up
Feingold up…
Biden calling out Petreaus on his filibusting
He didn’t “win” because of rigged elections, most notably in Ohio.
Feingold on 9/11…
rwcole @ 108
Several grad students here at Ohio University put a documentary about the Ohio 2004 Presidential selection called “How Ohio pulled it off”
Here is the trailer. Worth watching the whole film
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzeuIKWKuZQ
The film is great but I do think the documentary should have been called “How Blackwell and Rove stole the election in Ohio”
Hippie Norm Coleman thinks NoveOn’s commercial is very bad. I say MoveOn you rock!
Gen. Betrayus says, “The Marsh Arabs are going to do what the Marsh Arabs are going to do.” He is a brilliant General, who always fails.
Ask him about the failure of his mission to train Iraqi security forces. Ask him about the hundreds of thousands of taxpayer financed weapons that he lost to the insurgents. Ask him if he is playing for November 2008, as Kommander Guy wants.
Russ!
Let’s CLONE FEINGOLD
Hey Normie- ya ain’t here ta talk bout TEEVEE ya dumb fuck!
Everytime I hear one of the ReTHUGS mention move-on…I will contribute
Helen @ 122
Coleman is done. Feingold is the real deal.
rwcole @ 108
ah, but kerry did win though, more votes then voters in precincts without paper trails and less voting machines then needed in democratic districts
kerry won, gore won and we are a country under the seige of a silent coup, they are dismantling our government at every turn, wherever, whenever possible, they disassemble our constitution, they disavow responsibility for any law they break, they give our treasure to their wealthy pals, they destroy our reputation and international imfluence, they break our armed forces and reduce our ability to defend ourselves
and they laugh in our face
Excellent. Feingold: not about whether we are winning or losing in Iraq. IT’s about whether Iraq is helping or hurting us to go after Al Qu*!da.
Hey Coleman this is what a real Senator looks like.
Yay, yay, Russ! Finally someone is getting to the very bottom line! And of course Crocker is utterly flabbergasted! This is quite a show!
Feingold has em on the ropes…Go Russ
Still my choice for Prez..I know…I know don’t say it
Biodun @ 102
Sounded as if Skelton favored arresting anyone wearing a smidgeon of pink. Is that part of the patr*ot act or in a signing statement?
rwcole @ 135
Hey, that’s my Senator. You can’t insult him until after I’ve called him a lying, cheating, brown nosing, pusilanimous little weasle of a dumb fuck! Ok, have at it.
Feingold brings up Al-Qaeda in Islam Magreb…
Faux professor Crocker says Al-Qaeda in Magreb is beyond his area of experise. This from someone who is supposedly fluent in Arabic.
Crocker’s changed his um to ah.
carolyn urban @ 129
naw, it was all Nader’s fault.
Ooops, sorry — wrong stolen election.
Crocker is supposed to be a Middle East specialist and an Arabist and he can’t speak about events in Arab North Africa? WTF!?
holy shit… Russ: “which is more important to fighting AQ, the situation in Iraq or Pakistan”. Wow. Fox Three!!!
F: surely it’s in your expertise, which is more important in fighting Al Qu*!da – situation in Pakistan or situation in Iraq.
F not letting Crocker off hook. Surely you must have priorities.
Franco @ 142
hee. He’ll never run for prez, but I’d like to see what would happen if whoever wins the Dem nomination tapped him for VP.
adie@143
Skelton is an IDIOT… He did a very bad job yesterday
Feingold a real question with substance.
Adie @ 143
I could have sworn I saw two taken out today.
Tired of hearing Dems say they don’t have the votes to bring the troops home.
The Repugs don’t have the votes to keep them there!
When he are going to flip that frame?
Hmm, I wonder if Coleman’s office is getting a lot of calls. Staff person seemed rather rattled.
Franco @ 136
Wow. You must have been rich!
Blender @ 151
why will he never run?
Petraeus: Al Qaeda Central says the central front on the war on terror is in Iraq. Therefore, I do too.
Monkey see, monkey do
Shorter Petraeus: it’s not my job! Someone should tell him this is not an acceptable answer. He’s lost as far as the bigger picture. He’s not been able to adequately answer even one of Russ’ questions.
Feingold: Neither P nor C has any idea how Iraq fits into the global fight against terrorism.
Petraeus: lying about declining casualty figures
Feingold: nails him on the fact that comparing 2006 to 2007 month by month casualties are up.
Wasn’t someone saying recently they wanted someone to run for the presidency who was a boxer? That’d be Feingold.
Corker: jeez we don’t want to sound like we’re questioning anyone’s integrity.
Can you say alberto gonzales? How about Colin Powell?
Just tuned in. Looks like more of yesterday. (i.e. hopeless).
OT: This is just on the wire: “House Democratic leaders have decided to postpone a vote on a criminal contempt resolution against White House chief of staff Joshua Bolten and former White House counsel Harriet Miers for several weeks, and possibly longer, according to top lawmakers and aides.”
So, we’ll be in Iraq for the next decade and I guess it really doesn’t matter who I would have voted for in 2008….
new thread, gang
Bob Corker… what a loser. But would Harold Ford have been any better? Republican vs Republican lite.
Gyms in Iraq are not nice. Troops take their own responsibility (huh?). Crocker works out… in Corker’s Gym?
JEP @ 53
Because they know he should be President instead of Preznit Moron.
carolyn urban @ 162
Sure as sh*t wasn’t Reid.
Hi, I’m Bob Corker and I don’t know why I’m here. Neither do I, Bob, neither do I.
Musta been Mohammed Ali- I’d vote fer him!
float like a butterfly- sting like a bee!
Feingold 2012! Makes me proud to be a cheese head!
Jo Fish @ 149
Just now I heard NPR radio news playing back C or P answering to “does this effort in Iraq make us safer” (paraphrasing) with “I don’t know.”
Ha! They know. They know we’re wasting our time because they can’t (for some reason i don’t understand) find and focus on defeating any Al Qaeda types over there.