It’s “gimme more FUs day.” I’m going to try and liveblog as much of the Petraeus/Crocker Dog and Pony Show and WH-Written Talking Points as I can. Do try to restrain yourself on comments to be kind to the servers and your liveblogger. Thanks!
Today, I’m featuring this lovely photo of WH/GOP message man Ed Gillespie to give him some public credit for manufacturing both the Petraeus and Crocker public talking points and the GOP-caucus strategic coordination as well. Via Open Left:
As if this is not obvious already.
Another new arrival in the West Wing set up a rapid-response PR unit hard-wired into Petraeus’s shop. Ed Gillespie, the new presidential counselor, organized daily conference calls at 7:45 a.m. and again late in the afternoon between the White House, the Pentagon, the State Department, and the U.S. Embassy and military in Baghdad to map out ways of selling the surge.
From the start of the Bush plan, the White House communications office had been blitzing an e-mail list of as many as 5,000 journalists, lawmakers, lobbyists, conservative bloggers, military groups and others with talking points or rebuttals of criticism. Between Jan. 10 and last week, the office put out 94 such documents in various categories — “Myths/Facts” or “Setting the Record Straight” to take issue with negative news articles, and “In Case You Missed It” to distribute positive articles or speeches.
This follows the revelation that Petraeus has had closed door strategy sessions with the Republican caucus, persistent rumors that Petraeus will run for President on the Republican ticket in 2012, and Petraeus’s grad school buddy Michael O’Hanlon at the unaccountable Brookings Institution fomenting a PR offensive to bolster his friend’s image.
In case you were wondering whether they are treating this as an all-out GOP-PR blitz akin to ramping up for an election cycle? Wonder no more — No Quarter has more on the new WHIG. New faces, same old deceptions. Also, don’t miss this piece from Larry at No Quarter on the questions we ought to be asking going forward, a lot of which ought to have been asked well before now.
____________________
C-Span1 has coverage for the first part, and then it will switch to C-Span3 once the House goes into session. FYI.
Sen. Biden is gavelling the committee into session. Begins with a moment of silence on 9/11.
SEN. BIDEN: Welcomes Gen. Petraeus and Amb. Crocker. You are here today to give a progress report on Iraq. Gen. Petraeus say the numbers say that the violence is decreasing, and other independent groups say they are not — in my opinion, this misses the point: that there must be a lasting political settlement in Iraq, and that does not currently exist.
Are we any closer to a lasting political settlement in Iraq today than we were six months ago? And if we continue going down this path for another six months, are we going to be any closer then? In my opinion, the answer is no. Biden refers to the Petraeus letter saying that the surge had not worked out as they had hoped. Goes into details on the GAO report saying that things have not gotten better in almost all categories. The Iraqi people are leaving their homes at a rate as high as 100,000 people per month — since the surge.
Until Iraq’s leaders agree to share power peacefully and reach some political reconciliation, there will be no peace in Iraq. Our troops do a job on raw, sheer bravery — but the fact is that when our troops leave an area, they believe that the disruptive forces will return to that area. I have not found a single soldier who believes that is not the case.
In my discussions with Sunni tribal leaders, I didn’t detect any willingness to trust or discuss working with Shi’ite rulers in Baghdad. And vice versa. If every “jihadi” were killed tomorrow, we would still have a political problem in Iraq. We are basing our actions on a flawed strategy — there is no trust in the central government in Baghdad, no trust among the people, and no trust that the government will deliver services effectively. Putting more American lives at risk with very little prospect for success is unconscionable.
It is time to draw down forces in Iraq. Starting to leave Iraq is necessary, but it isn’t enough — we have to help shape what we leave behind, instead of leaving things to a new dictator. Biden pushes a federalist-type strategy of local control and a limited central government, in charge of limited central concerns including distributing Iraq’s oil revenue. Biden recommends a diplomatic surge — including other nations — to help to implement a viable political solution in Iraq. We cannot want peace and security in Iraq more than the Iraqi people want it.
The American military, as you know better than I do, cannot sustain a presence in Iraq at the levels we are now…it is time to turn a corner. We should end a failed strategy in Iraq that cannot succeed, and begin to try and implement one that can.
SEN. LUGAR: Welcomes witnesses to the committee. Lists a number of problems in Iraq, including the fact that the surge has failed to match the intensity and magnitude of problems in Iraq. Although Rice has made some inroads, we have no forum to engage neighbors in the area — every nation around Iraq has intense interest in what is happening there. Yet the group that Rice tried to put together has met only once since May. Diplomatic initiatives have been altogether too sporadic and untended.
Bold and creative regional diplomacy is not just an accompaniment to our efforts in Iraq. It is a precondition to success of any policy. We must repair alliances, recruit more international participants in Iraq, prepare for more regional flow, implement better basing options, and any number of other issues. We cannot just work on guesses in a rapidly evolving international environment.
AMB. CROCKER: Full text of remarks will be put in the record. Begins with summary. Will give you an assessment of diplomatic, economic and military issues in Iraq. I won’t minimize the problems we face, but I will say that we can achieve a secure, stable Iraq at peace with its neighbors. The trajectory is upwards, although the slope of that line will not be steep. [CHS notes: Um...isn't this yesterday's speech? See here...this is yesterday's speech. I'll pick up the liveblogging once we hit the point that I had to stop yesterday -- otherwise, you can pretty much follow along with the exact same words from yesterday.]
…Gains in north and west of Iraq have opened the door to meaningful politics. Al qaeda overplayed its hand in Anbar — and the landscape in Anbar is dramatically different, as a result, as tribal leaders are now working with us. Shi’ia extremeists are also facing a backlash.
One of the key challenges for Iraqis now is to link this provincial progress to the central government. Budget issues — taxation comes through central government, and provincial governments are dependent on central government to finance necessary infrastructure and other loss compensations. Iraq starting to make some gains in the economy — IMF estimates that there will be an app. 6 percent improvement this year. High performers in the budget picture are in the provinces. [CHS notes: read in Kirkuk and the north primarily with the Kurds.]
Many areas in Baghdad only receive two hours a day of power, although hospitals and water pump stations are much better. Work of international compact with Iraq moves forward, with Iraq and UN working on progress for economics and reconstruction. 74 nations have pledged to work on progress under the UNSCR 1770 framework. Many of Iraq’s neighbors understand they have a great interest in the progress in Iraq. Working group on border security and other issues. Another neighbor’s ministerial will be held at the end of October. One of the issues at the last meeting, a permanent secretariat was discussed as being needed (referencing Lugar’s criticism of no continuous effort on this).
Saudis are planning on opening an embassy in Baghdad — first since fall of Saddam. Syria has been more problematic — on one hand, they host a lot of refugees and have interdicted a number of forces trying to cause instability in Iraq. On the other hand, they haven’t caught them all and some factions within Syria have been supportive of disruptive forces.
The involvement and support of the US will continue to be hugely important to influincing a positive outcome — a united country and government by the rule of law. They have not yet realized this vision, and to do so will take more time and patience from the US. I cannot guarantee success — but I do believe that it is attainable. I do believe that curtailing our efforts will cause failure — an Iraq that falls into chaos or civil war would cause substantial problems, not just in Iraq, but also with regional states. Iran would fill any vaccuum in Iraq. Says that should that happen, al qaeda and other terrorist organizations would then gain foothold in Iraq.
Over the coming year, we will continue to increase our civilian efforts outside the controlled zones. The provinces are likely to grow in influence as more power devolves from Baghdad. Progress on this front will take many forms, and must come from the Iraqis themselves.
GEN. PETRAEUS: Reiterates this is his testimony, not that of the WH or someone else. Providing summary of written information provided to committee. [CHS notes: This also looks like a bit of a summarized repeat of yesterday's testimony -- you can read along here. There are a few changes as he goes forward, so I'm going to try and liveblog as much as I can to give you a basis for comparison.]
Though improvements have been uneven across Iraq, the number of incidents has declined in 8 out of the past 12 weeks. Sectarian incidents have also declined, although still at troubling levels. (This is a similar point from yesterday. He’s taken out the references to Iran and Lebanese Hezbollah.)
Still tracking yesterday’s speech on the power competition. Today emphasizing that American forces are trying to do more integration into the communities in which they are serving, rather than staying apart from them — to build trust and more tactical advantage. (CHS notes: He’s speaking much more slowly today, btw — much easier to follow along. Someone gave him a bit of media/public speaking advice last night. Much easier to comprehend and more emphasis on his points today. Just on a stylistic analysis point.)
On the number of Iraqi battalions ready — yesterday was about 90, and today he said about 95. Slight difference there. What was the difference in information from the two days?
“Security While Transitioning: From Leading To Partnering To Overwatch.” — Petraeus says this title of his plan submitted to chain of command summarizes what he thinks should happen. The remainder of the speech tracks yesterday very closely.
SEN. BIDEN QUESTIONS: As you know, the GAO disputes your statistics. Let’s not get into that debate, and let me ask a question: can a Sunni arab travel through Shi’ite neighborhoods without fear of attack? Petraeus says that because the GAO cut their data off about 5 weeks prior to the data that Petraeus showed, and says that makes a significant difference. Biden calls him on the fact that there have been other periods where the violence has reduced over the last four years — we are still talking about over 1,000 attacks a week in Iraq. Let’s get to my question. Petraeus says that it depends on the neighborhood. No question that travel in some neighborhoods is very dangerous. Petraeus says there are still several mixed neighborhoods in southeastern Baghdad, and that it would certainly be possible there.
Biden talks about going to reconstruction conference with Crocker. Grounded in windstorm in helicopter with leaders — they all sat in helicopter for 3 hours because they didn’t dare drive through the particular city they were in to drive to Baghdad. [Didn't catch the city -- did anyone else?] Crocker said that “road movement” back to Baghdad was potentially planned — Biden makes the point that it would have been highly secured, and necessarily so.
In non-diplomatic speak, what exactly do you mean by “it will not be quick” — 2, 3, 5, 10 years? Crocker demures.
Biden gets into what “not quick” means in non-diplomatic speak. Crocker hedges, they go back and forth on success and lack thereof and, ultimately, Crocker says political success in Baghdad won’t come close even by next summer, but we shouldn’t judge them on the criteria that they set up for themselves.
Am going to start a fresh thread…
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zed?
told downstairs…
Good morning, Christy, and deep thanks.
hearing’s started – Biden up on C-Span3.
well one thing is for certain, the administration really does run this like a corporation
a corporation cought stealing and trying to spin the events as they transpire with disinformation
I have the feeling that today is going to be a much rougher day for the General…
jayt @ 6
We can only HOPE so..
Thanks in advance for the live blogging, CHS. A little more Mozart in anticipation (I hope) of more pressing questioning overall of Petraeus/Crocker than was evident yesterday:
Mozart Requiem- Dies Irae (Day of Wrath)
Hi Christy, I responded a bit on Kerry downstairs. Thanks again.
Toby Wollin @ 7
Biden’s Committee has some talent to offer. Biden’s already blasting away…
ThinkProgress fact-checks BetrayUs Petraeus:
Harry Reid also fact-checks BetrayUs, here and here. Pelosi’s The Gavel blog joins in.
thanks PW
wow
where did you get that great Gomer Pyle picture?
Marie Roget @ 8
And the correct sp. would be “Dies Irae,” since I can’t get back into the comment. An evocative, angry piece of classical to listen to Dick Lugar by…
I am hoping our congress critters have been emailed references to reference and study;
and media matters, larry johnson’s and think progress here, and here among many others
I am getting tired of spinning and spin rooms and PR email campaigns of talking points.
Can we just discuss FACTS and let the decisions be FACT BASED and not ideologically driven.
Why are we in Iraq?
Why DO we need the largest embassy in the world in Iraq? What is going to be going on there?
Exactly who is fighting over there (aside from the US) and what are they fighting for and about? What is our dog in that fight?
Does anyone believe that the recent OBL vids were made by OBL? Who faked them and why?
Alice @ 13
I’m guessing petreaus is wearing a pretty bad hair piece right now.
this is important for diminishing his reputation as a man who says it like it is
From Bill in Maine -
It had to happen sooner or later. The vehicles containing the two defining events of the Bush presidency—the attacks of September 11, 2001 and the Iraq war—have finally collided at the intersection of Incompetence Street & Deception Boulevard in the town of Fear.
Is Lugar coming around? He seems to be NOT following Repug talking points.
It doesn’t sound like Lugar is going to make it easy for the cojoined twins.
Show me a strategy. Whacking the administration on lack of regional diplomacy.
yellowdogD @ 19
You know how *they* are; he’s just having a spector moment.
“We can achieve our goals in Iraq.”
What are our goals in Iraq?
This is a retread of the statement yesterday.
Listening to Crocker is like listening to him yesterday, slope is not steep, boring.
yellowdogD @ 19
Indiana’s got a lot of funerals, a lot of 19 year olds with arms and legs shot off, a lot of healthy kids turned into ghosts. And for what.
Yup, Crocker is doing a complete reread of yesterday.
Christy, just copy over yesterday’s blogging.
is this the same opening statement we heard yesterday?
selise @ 26
Pretty much.
Saddam Hussein was a bad guy because he killed a lot of Iraqis.
OTOH we have killed a lot of Iraqis which makes us the good guys.
I hope you appreciate the difference.
Was Betray US sworn in?
Hugh @ 28
hugh, I have to say, you have a way with words that is rare, this particular post is priceless
AQ didn’t over play their hand as Crocker just said. Zarqawi over played his hand, against the counsel of Zawahiri.
(More disinfo to clear up, is all.)
Crocker is again making the point, although I doubt he means to, that we eliminated the entire structure of Iraq, allowed a bunch of newly minted MBA’s and political appointees to run roughshod over the first few years of “reconstruction”, and only now are they beginning to identify the actual nature of how things work there and locate a ghost map of how to get things going. Too damned little, too damned late for millions of dead, dying and misplaced Iraqis, hundreds of thousands of American troops and families whose lives will never be the same.
Bastards.
Alice — unless I misunderstood you, that’s Ed Gillespie, not Petraeus — I mean, BetrayUs.
perris @ 30
Wish that Hugh were there to ask such, as a question.
brendan @ 33
It’s Ryan Crocker.
egregious @ 24
Since the children of the Bush families won’t serve, perhaps they could become roving funeral attenders/hospital visitors. All they would have to do is remain reasonably sober for a few hours a day. They’d also have to appear concerned, but, with practice, I’m confident they could fake that convincingly.
brendan @ 33
lesson to me not to comment before reading the post
AZ Matt @ 23
I fell fast asleep yesterday, today I’m committed to stay awake.
…….
Crocker admits Syria is hosting Iraqi refugees!
I wonder if reading out statements that have aleady been given yesterday is a way of running out the clock. Crocker and Petraeus know that there is an afternoon hearing. So the more they talk now the fewer questions they have to face before this committee.
Thanks, dear Mod, for the correction on #8!
Back to radio silence until a break in the hearing (Crocker could have mailed it in, yeah?)…
Crocker o’ Shit and Betrayus.
Boring the world into giving the military more time to build more walls in Iraq.
Hugh @ 39
I wonder if reading out statements that have aleady been given yesterday is a way of running out the clock. Crocker and Petraeus know that there is an afternoon hearing. So the more they talk now the fewer questions they have to face before this committee.
I’ve been saying for a week or so that the Chairman should simply say that we’ll enter your statement into the record, and proceed directly to questioning.
This man sounds veeerrrryyyy ttiiiiirrrrreeed. Must have been a long night at murder boards.
George @ 41
astute
As the post above makes clear, Petraeus discussed and coordinated his statement extensively with the White House. So almost with his first breath, Petraeus has shown himself to be less than candid. He is speaking in legalisms.
So much happy talk.
What Id like to know is if you ever intend to leave and if you say you will, why build new bases and why do you need a embassy of such size?
Why aren’t these guys put under oath? No oath yesterday either.
liavc @ 47
what’s up with that?
They don’t just rely on their gut feelings to conclude that the surge is a raging success they also make rigorous use of charts and graphs based on fake data.
Hugh @ 49
just the graphs he just showed could have been presented in a way that would have made the information meaningful
Christy, did the Senate put P & C under oath?
As far as Dick Lugar, he’s become expert at pretending to be an independent voice within the Republican Party while dutifully towing the party line at every turn.
It’s that pretending that keeps his seat so safe the Indiana Democratic Party didn’t even run anyone against him in ‘06.
Don’t you wish there existed a “Democratic caucus strategic coordination” on basically anything?
Interesting juxtaposition watching the replay of the events of 9-11-01 on MSBC, at the same time as listening to the whitewashing of the catastrophe of Iraq, which was enabled by these events.
And which one are the majority of Americans paying attention to today? Just a coincidence that this testimony is taking place on this date and at this time, I’m sure.
Crocker: verbosity personified,with mendacious excursions, flights of fantasy and a speaking style modeled upon somnambulistic waterboarding.
What a horse biscuit.
Sen. Cornyn (R-Hypocrite) is on the floor of the senate right now bitching about Moveon, trying to make it sound like a sinister thing that Tom Mattzie has meetings with the Dem leadership. Like the Republican lobbyists don’t do the same and far worse. It’s the new shiny thing!
I ran across this at Der Spiegel! It’s in English, no worry.
Local Iraqi’s reject AQ, its a good thing. Local American reject AQ, the general, Crocker and Bush, not such a good thing. As evidenced by them being forcibly ejected.
SufiLizard @ 52
Lugar’s got a deal. As long as he keeps mailing in his vote and makes no waves, he’s allowed to be the R’s Foreign Policy Expert.
The Wajayt @ 59
Plus he is such a twink.
Hugh @ 39
*Ding*…………the two of them have now managed to run out something like an hour w/o having to answer a single question.
Sworn in or not, here’s a little lacmus question for the senators to ask : Was Saddam behind 9/11 ?
… and since it’s the anniversary : Did the planes cause the collapse ?
Wordsmith @ 57
Ah, a measured, intelligent voice from a historian. Too bad the Administration has always had its fingers in its ears…
Hugh @ 49
Have you seen Ted?
I’d be interested in your take sometime, btw
jayt @ 59
I wonder how long Lugar has been in Congress. It seems like he was in Congress when I left Indiana back in 1985.
Wordsmith @ 57
Thanks – very insightful article.
Elliott @ 50
I’m not sure that’s true because the raw data on civilian casualties is so inaccurate. Even so, the numbers undercut the “surge” argument. So Petraeus has gone out of his way to obfuscate and doctor it by defining who is and is not kinetically disadvantaged by ethno-sectarian activity (killed).
Has anyone brought up the fact that the reason deaths of civilians in Baghdad might be down is because whole areas have been ‘cleansed’ either by movement or death. Artificially sealing peoples behind brick walls does not a safe place make.
That picture! Ugh. I had breakfast in my stomach.
SufiLizard @ 52
He and Arlen Specter are twins.
Saying the GAO data cutoff was earlier; the GAO information went up to and included an Aug 30 trip.
Debbie(aussie) @ 68
maybe Bush’s plan is to stay until the cleansing is completed.
Can a Sunni travel to a Shia neighborhood safely?
Well, let me talk about something else. blah, blah, blah
Answer the GD question!
Did the planes cause the collapse ?
From the very first time I saw film on the morning of 9-11-01, I’ve said – no fucking way.
Also interesting is the this morning’s film from the Pentagon, where a plane supposedly hit; there’s a grand total of *one* firetruck shooting water in the direction of what little fire there is/was.
Elliott, I have to wonder. Although I don’t think even Bush knows what he is doing from hour to hour.
Morning pups!
Now that we’re into Senators questions, please keep to-topic for LiveBlog, and go back thread for discussions on other topics.
Thanks.
Yesterday, among the many other weaknesses in the hearing, the reps allowed the answers to go on and on, running out their time. Now, there are some bloviators here, but hopefully there will be a little more back and forth.
ps. Joe Biden saying,”I love ya”, is not inspiring confidence here. Wrong message.
jayt — if you’d like, I’d be happy to provide guidance on your LLC – 501(c)(3) matter.
Biden is on a tear! Petraeus and Crocker are tongue-tied.
Biden was pretty good.
Does CSpan have captions (for hearing impaired) I have no sound on my computer at the moment
EPU’d from below by me (but is it still considered an EPU this late?
carolyn urban @ 109
I haven’t heard the proceedings, but if this is true, I am concerned. While this also indicates we have been successful, I am worried about counter actions of the sort that brought about the end of Air American in many strategically important communities. I still have not read to my satisfaction that the Net Neutrality issue will NOT be used in some way to control free speech on the nets.
Can someone help us all out here and ask Lugar to put a sock in it?
Jonathan @ 78
jayt — if you’d like, I’d be happy to provide guidance on your LLC – 501(c)(3) matter.
Thank you!! yes. If you’d e-mail me at foster7833 at yahoo dot com, it would be greatly appreciated. I can certainly get authorization for the help of a good tax attorney on this one.
Sorry for the OT.
Good Morning Christy and pups.
Thank you mightily for these posts Christy.
Hugh. You mention fake data as the basis for the charts Petr. is using. Can you elaborate?
I thot I heard more detail about that yesterday, but lost track of the references.
No hurry. Just when things quiet down and you have a moment.
Thanking you in advance. ;->
jayt @ 74
Oh, the Pentagon definitely got hit. They didn’t close off that wing for renovation beforehand for nothing …
I not sure if Luger knows where he is going. That was a rambling question. And kinda ditzy.
iTunes/Radio/Public/NPR Program Stream
no problems. hth
Thanks Queen Christy for doing this. Smoosh!
Sometimes I get the sense that the Democrats know that if the GOP machine commits the resources to a given PR effort, no matter how hard they try to combat the message with the truth, they can’t “catapult the propaganda”. This seemed to be the case with the Petraeus carnival. They spent millions on making sure that the media and the American people bit into it hook, line and sinker and the Dems knew they wouldn’t prevail since they don’t have the machine in their corner. It’s akin to conceding any political race. You know you won’t win so you pick your next battle.
Does anyone know what the hell Lugar was talking about? How many think Lugar knows?
wow–that smile makes Cheney’s look normal.
Patreaus just said that just the announcement of the surge made violence go down. What? the insurgents were scardy-cats?
I just don’t get this…how can things be getting better in Iraq when 70,000 Iraqi people are leaving every month. I things are getting better why are they leaving?
Noticing multiple references to Gen Jones and comparing statements. That is a good thing,”We;re not taking your word for anything”.
Good on Dodd, challenging with facts.
movin’ right along…
new thread…
new thread…
Phoenix Woman @ 11
Packer’s New Yorker article states:
Is there anyone here who believes that Bush wouldn’t “wreck the Army for a generation” or “cause the bottom to fall out of public support for the war” (even more, apparently) rather than admit failure?
It’s important to remember that “have to bring troops home by April” is a “hard” limit only assuming sane military policies, which is not a safe assumption here. Maybe Bush’s increasing lame-duckitude will embolden the generals sufficiently, but I’m not willing to count on it.
FYI, the hearing has returned to C-Span 1, at least for the moment.
Adie, most of the civil institutional structure of Iraq has either been destroyed or dysfunctional so the reporting of Iraqi deaths is an iffy proposition. Many are not reported, some are underreported. So the base number is not known with any rigor. Then if you subtract out of this dubious beginning number, those who are killed in car bombs, those who are killed due to criminal activity (shot in the front of the head), those who are killed due to Sunni on Sunni violence, and those who are killed due to Shia on Shia violence, the number you end up with is meaningless. Charting and graphing such numbers does not change or improve them. All meaning has been qualified out of them.
Adie @ 85
Christy posted this site yesterday – running track of falsehoods in this report -
http://www.democracyarsenal.org/
Spiritcatcher @ 86
I have a friend (well of a close relative) who died at the Pentagon on 9/11 (an intern there)-whatever the cause of the blast.
Hagel is hot under the collar….Hummmm
Richmond @ 102
Sorry to hear that. No, i don’t doubt that the Pentagon and the Towers got hit or that Al Quaeda was behind the hijackings. I only doubt that the 4th plane got disassembled in mid-air by its passengers or that WTC7’s steel beams melted out of sympathy …
“decreases in eight out of twelve weeks”
Doesn’t sound statistically significant—you can easily get eight “heads” out of twelve by flippin a coin.. Hope someone points out how weak that is.